RE: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
Ed Koch asked: The more interesting question this thread raises to me is not how to characterize Pre but what he would have done if he had lived. Who was it who put on the list an interesting scenario a while back? Some questions: 1. Would he have medaled in Montreal? In my opinion: not in the race that actually occurred. But with him in there it may have developed differently. He may have run the 10k also, changing the face of both races. Viren and Foster did. Almost all of the main players in 1972, '76 and '80 doubled in the 5k/10k or 10k marathon. 2. If he lost in the 5K in Montreal, would he have moved up to the 10K/Marathon thereafter? He already had a small set of great 6M/10k times, and may have been moving toward the 10k or a 5k/10k double for 1976. He had run 27:09y and 27:43.6. He may have fared better at 10k in Olympic races, although I don't see him in front of Viren, Lopes, Foster either. -Original Message- From: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, August 25, 2001 12:14 AM Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated Simply stated, I think an at his best Pre today would give the US the ability to talk about a medal hope at something above 400 meters on the track .. And I am surprised that everyone has allowed Kennedy to be put in the overrated category in an earlier post when he has been the only real legitimate distance threat the US has had since Padilla, Marsh and Maree (oops another import) .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray You know something, I'm 52 years old and have been running since freshman year HS and I have never seen another runner like Steve Prefontaine. I also greatly admired Gerry Lindgren, Herb Elliot, Peter Snell and Jim Ryun. Is Pre over rated? I don't think so. His achievements actually are huge when you consider that today's elite runners don't even attempt to run the range of races that Pre excelled at. But actually, I find all this stuff on the list knocking Pre pretty boring and stupid. But I guess typing is a lot less tiring than running. JT
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
In a message dated Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:56:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Edward Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The more interesting question this thread raises to me is not how to characterize Pre but what he would have done if he had lived. 7. What would be his role today - coach, official, agent, promoter, commentator, or some combination? bartender
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
7. What would be his role today - coach, official, agent, promoter, commentator, or some combination? bartender at the Silver Dollar Club. I think he would have been co-owner by now, with Lindgren.
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
The more interesting question this thread raises to me is not how to characterize Pre but what he would have done if he had lived. Who was it who put on the list an interesting scenario a while back? Some questions: 1. Would he have medaled in Montreal? 2. If he lost in the 5K in Montreal, would he have moved up to the 10K/Marathon thereafter? 3. What would he have done in reaction to the 1980 boycott? 4. Would he have gotten involved with the athletes in the formation of TAC? 5. Would he have sided with Shorter or the more hardline athletes over Cascade? 6. Would he have kept competing through 1984 in Los Angeles? 7. What would be his role today - coach, official, agent, promoter, commentator, or some combination? It is only speculation but I'm curious to hear some opinions. Ed Koch -Original Message- From: Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, August 25, 2001 12:14 AM Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated Simply stated, I think an at his best Pre today would give the US the ability to talk about a medal hope at something above 400 meters on the track .. And I am surprised that everyone has allowed Kennedy to be put in the overrated category in an earlier post when he has been the only real legitimate distance threat the US has had since Padilla, Marsh and Maree (oops another import) .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray You know something, I'm 52 years old and have been running since freshman year HS and I have never seen another runner like Steve Prefontaine. I also greatly admired Gerry Lindgren, Herb Elliot, Peter Snell and Jim Ryun. Is Pre over rated? I don't think so. His achievements actually are huge when you consider that today's elite runners don't even attempt to run the range of races that Pre excelled at. But actually, I find all this stuff on the list knocking Pre pretty boring and stupid. But I guess typing is a lot less tiring than running. JT
RE: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray Kurt ... you are usually right on ... but not this time. Setting NRs (close to WRs) in events ranging from 5:00 to 28:00 is an amazing feat physically. Also, note that I said: Has anyone in the world ever held world-class 2k, 3k, 2M, 5k, 10k NR's ... Canada is NOT World-class in basketball. If you look at the US distance and MD runners over 1964, (forget 1968), and 1972 Olympics ... we were a good distance nation. We were NOT third-class. Pre was fairly high up on the all-time lists with some of his times (his 27:43.6 was 6th all-time).
RE: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
I'm not sure where his marks placed him on the All time lists but at the time Pre was also only 5 secs off the WR at 5k, and a couple of seconds off the WR at 2k and 3k. This in addition to his 10k AR being 6th at that time. Steve S. Kurt ... you are usually right on ... but not this time. Setting NRs (close to WRs) in events ranging from 5:00 to 28:00 is an amazing feat physically. Also, note that I said: Has anyone in the world ever held world-class 2k, 3k, 2M, 5k, 10k NR's .. Canada is NOT World-class in basketball. If you look at the US distance and MD runners over 1964, (forget 1968), and 1972 Olympics ... we were a good distance nation. We were NOT third-class. Pre was fairly high up on the all-time lists with some of his times (his 27:43.6 was 6th all-time).
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
so the intelligence on this list has labelled ,among others, the following to be overrated: James Dean . . . yeah youre right, he only influenced every actor to come after him . . . hes overrated. Jim Morrison . . . one of the most important figures in Rock n Roll history, but yeah hell, overrated as well John F. Kennedy . . . do the words crossroads of American history mean anything to anybody? umm, hasnt the assasination of JFK been referred to as aloss of innocence in America? and apparently someone (well, more than one person) considered him a bit too influential. Take note - American history, society, culture, and values pre- (interesting word) and post-JFK are distinctly different. Kennedy's time in office has changed everything if you want to know the truth. -Dan
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
. Kennedy's time in office has changed everything if you want to know the truth. -Dan That's a rather large statement for someone who was only in office for 2 years. Like most presidents he did a lot of talking, but these guys actually did something: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson, name a program and these guys probably had their hands in it. Granted Johnson carried out some of the measures started by Kennedy but all the aid programs and such can be traced back to Roosevelt. Social Securiy Medicare, budget deficit, heavier taxes on the rich...without these three presidents life would be much different than without JFK. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
RE: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
Neither Padilla nor Maree ever got close to a medal. You did, however, overlook someone who did get a medal, Brian Diemer, and presumably he would be a ...legitimate distance threat by default. Simply stated, I think an at his best Pre today would give the US the ability to talk about a medal hope at something above 400 meters on the track .. And I am surprised that everyone has allowed Kennedy to be put in the overrated category in an earlier post when he has been the only real legitimate distance threat the US has had since Padilla, Marsh and Maree (oops another import) .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray You know something, I'm 52 years old and have been running since freshman year HS and I have never seen another runner like Steve Prefontaine. I also greatly admired Gerry Lindgren, Herb Elliot, Peter Snell and Jim Ryun. Is Pre over rated? I don't think so. His achievements actually are huge when you consider that today's elite runners don't even attempt to run the range of races that Pre excelled at. But actually, I find all this stuff on the list knocking Pre pretty boring and stupid. But I guess typing is a lot less tiring than running. JT
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
In a message dated Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:07:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hey im wondering, who does alan webb have a poster of on his wall? how bout stember, or ritzenhein? PREFONTAINE. another thing, every single professional athlete ought to thank pre for his work in that department . . thanks to him and other like him, greene, johnson, kennedy, jones, jacobs, et al dont have to make a choice between the olympics and making money. One of the great myths propogated by the deify-Pre machine. gh
Re: RE: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
In a message dated 8/25/2001 10:24:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stiil overrated... those who die young (John F. Kennedy, etc) frequently are. Now thats about as simplistic and stupid a thing as I have ever read. JT
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray well if no one has ever done that before or since, that seems to merit a bit of applause dont you think? by the by, anyone realize that pre consistently set AR's running completely solo . . . anyone know the runner ups time from his 27:43 race??? find that out, then go worship geb et al for their times with rabbits through 6 damn kilometers. hey just curious, what was the winning time at this years nationals 5k? or last years oly trials? thats right my friends, pre would have won those races too. 30 years and how many performance enhancing pills later, he still would have won. and if anyone ever tries to talk about him as an alcoholic, id advise you not to shoot your mouth off, for you sound like an idiot. just a side note, viren was often spotted taking double shots of vodka after a tough day of training . . . if only he had stuck to the booze as his only drug, things would be very different today. oh and yes, he has admitted to blood doping. Steve Prefontaine was, is, and ever will be a legend. -Dan
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray You know something, I'm 52 years old and have been running since freshman year HS and I have never seen another runner like Steve Prefontaine. I also greatly admired Gerry Lindgren, Herb Elliot, Peter Snell and Jim Ryun. Is Pre over rated? I don't think so. His achievements actually are huge when you consider that today's elite runners don't even attempt to run the range of races that Pre excelled at. But actually, I find all this stuff on the list knocking Pre pretty boring and stupid. But I guess typing is a lot less tiring than running. JT
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
hey im wondering, who does alan webb have a poster of on his wall? how bout stember, or ritzenhein? PREFONTAINE. another thing, every single professional athlete ought to thank pre for his work in that department . . thanks to him and other like him, greene, johnson, kennedy, jones, jacobs, et al dont have to make a choice between the olympics and making money. we also seem to forget, the '72 games were pre's first major international meet with heats, and he finished fourth, pretty darned quality. and it was his attitude going into that meet that typifies the man. every single other american goes to their first major meet happy to be here or just a learning experience etc. pre said screw that, im going there to win a gold medal. maybe its that attitude we ned today to be more competitive than the abysmal showing our distance guys produced this year (and every year for the most part). Rick Riley sometime after pre's death: Last spring I ran several races there [Eugene]. The crowds were small and reserved. It seemed that those of us running in the meet were only minor performers and that any minute the Star would appear and the crowds would roar to life, athlete and spectator giving and taking whatever it is that each needs and wants. I stood there on the track near the finish but he did not appear. The magic was gone forever. -Dan
Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated
Simply stated, I think an at his best Pre today would give the US the ability to talk about a medal hope at something above 400 meters on the track .. And I am surprised that everyone has allowed Kennedy to be put in the overrated category in an earlier post when he has been the only real legitimate distance threat the US has had since Padilla, Marsh and Maree (oops another import) .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: RE: t-and-f: SI article about most overrated and underrated In a message dated 8/24/2001 7:31:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big fish in a fairly small pond. Even in the US distance Golden Age, holding a bunch of US NRs is admirable, but not that big a deal in the overall picture. It's kind of like holding all the basketball national scoring and rebounding records in Canada. Kurt Bray You know something, I'm 52 years old and have been running since freshman year HS and I have never seen another runner like Steve Prefontaine. I also greatly admired Gerry Lindgren, Herb Elliot, Peter Snell and Jim Ryun. Is Pre over rated? I don't think so. His achievements actually are huge when you consider that today's elite runners don't even attempt to run the range of races that Pre excelled at. But actually, I find all this stuff on the list knocking Pre pretty boring and stupid. But I guess typing is a lot less tiring than running. JT
