Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Simone Saviolo
2010/9/20 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 If you miss something, please report here so that we can extend the
 proposal.

I've never found an appropriate tag for those bollards that can
retract down into the road. They're usually controlled by a remote,
and they're often used to prevent non-authorized traffic from entering
a road (for example, to reserve it for buses or residents). I don't
know if they have a technical name.

 Cheers,
 Martin

Ciao,

Simone

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 21 September 2010 17:32, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've never found an appropriate tag for those bollards that can
 retract down into the road. They're usually controlled by a remote,
 and they're often used to prevent non-authorized traffic from entering
 a road (for example, to reserve it for buses or residents). I don't
 know if they have a technical name.

google ads sometimes comes in useful:

http://www.steelbollards.com.au/

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 21 September 2010 17:32, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've never found an appropriate tag for those bollards that can

barrier=bollard
bollard=retractable|removeable|collapsible|flexible
manual=yes/no

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Simone Saviolo
2010/9/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
 On 21 September 2010 17:32, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've never found an appropriate tag for those bollards that can

 barrier=bollard
 bollard=retractable|removeable|collapsible|flexible
 manual=yes/no

Manual? Is this to differentiate between a) on-demand rectratable
bollards and b) timed retractable bollards? Because I don't think I've
ever seen any of those b) types, but they may well exist. In that
case, hours_on/hours_off would allso apply.

Ciao,

Simone

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 21 September 2010 18:28, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Manual? Is this to differentiate between a) on-demand rectratable

Manual as in they usually have a padlock or a built in key slot to
manually retract or remove them, as opposed to some kind of motor
operated mechanism...

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Simone Saviolo
2010/9/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
 On 21 September 2010 18:28, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Manual? Is this to differentiate between a) on-demand rectratable

 Manual as in they usually have a padlock or a built in key slot to
 manually retract or remove them, as opposed to some kind of motor
 operated mechanism...

Then there are two orthogonal properties:
- manual versus machine-operated;
- on-demand versus timed.

Should we also tag whether it can be remotely activated? Remote owners
won't need this information (as they already have the remote), but the
presence of a button or another device would be useful for those who
don't have the remote.

Simone

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 21 September 2010 18:40, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Should we also tag whether it can be remotely activated? Remote owners
 won't need this information (as they already have the remote), but the
 presence of a button or another device would be useful for those who
 don't have the remote.

To be honest I don't think I'd even bother tagging manual v automatic,
however if it automatically opens at set times this could be useful
information...

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/20 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
 That might cover mazes, but how about the rest of the amusement/theme
 park options?

 I'm think someone suggested attraction=maze the other day... In which
 case attraction=castle|dodgem_cars|ferris_wheel|water_slide|wave_pool|

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dtheme_park
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:attraction

add your proposals there (or on the discussion pages). Attraction
obviously only in case we can agree that this key can also be used in
parks and other contexts then playgrounds and theme parks.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 21 September 2010 19:14, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 add your proposals there (or on the discussion pages). Attraction

Done...

 obviously only in case we can agree that this key can also be used in
 parks and other contexts then playgrounds and theme parks.

That page already shows several things from playgrounds, not just
amusement/theme park rides...

Does anyone know the common term for ferris wheel is in the UK? It
lists 'big_wheel' on that page, but I've never heard that term used
before...

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com:
 On 21 September 2010 10:08, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name ;-)

 Wikipedia seems to think they're just a subset of a Jersey Barrier -
 mind you, even jersey barrier is a new term for me. I have no idea
 what the UK equivalent is.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier#Plastic_Jersey_barriers


didn't know the term, but agree, they would hence be barrier=jersey
material=plastic/concrete ?

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Richard Welty

 On 9/21/10 2:19 AM, Stephen Hope wrote:

On 21 September 2010 10:08, M∡rtin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com  wrote:

maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name ;-)

Wikipedia seems to think they're just a subset of a Jersey Barrier -
mind you, even jersey barrier is a new term for me. I have no idea
what the UK equivalent is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier#Plastic_Jersey_barriers

Wikipedia is a little disjointed on this.

Attenuator is generically used for both rail type and barrel type
barriers, water filled or sand filled. Attenuator has its own wikipedia
page which the Jersey Barrier page doesn't link to.

concrete Jersey Barrier is frequently referred to K-rail, and that usage is
broader than Wikipedia recognizes; the term K-rail is more likely to be
recognized by engineers than by the public, though.

richard


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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net:
  On 9/21/10 2:19 AM, Stephen Hope wrote:
 maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier#Plastic_Jersey_barriers

 Wikipedia is a little disjointed on this.

 Attenuator is generically used for both rail type and barrel type
 barriers, water filled or sand filled. Attenuator has its own wikipedia
 page which the Jersey Barrier page doesn't link to.

 concrete Jersey Barrier is frequently referred to K-rail, and that usage is
 broader than Wikipedia recognizes; the term K-rail is more likely to be
 recognized by engineers than by the public, though.


OK, sorry, in the main time I added jersey barrier, feel free to
change this if you're sure that your terms are more precise / known. I
also added the spikes to the proposal (without picture, everybody feel
free to add it). I discovered that spikes already relinks to barrier
(but is not very visible on the barrier page).

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Richard Welty

 On 9/21/10 7:08 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2010/9/21 Richard Weltyrwe...@averillpark.net:

  On 9/21/10 2:19 AM, Stephen Hope wrote:

maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier#Plastic_Jersey_barriers

Wikipedia is a little disjointed on this.

Attenuator is generically used for both rail type and barrel type
barriers, water filled or sand filled. Attenuator has its own wikipedia
page which the Jersey Barrier page doesn't link to.

concrete Jersey Barrier is frequently referred to K-rail, and that usage is
broader than Wikipedia recognizes; the term K-rail is more likely to be
recognized by engineers than by the public, though.


OK, sorry, in the main time I added jersey barrier, feel free to
change this if you're sure that your terms are more precise / known. I
also added the spikes to the proposal (without picture, everybody feel
free to add it). I discovered that spikes already relinks to barrier
(but is not very visible on the barrier page).

i'd say jersey_barrier is fine for the concrete, it's a more commonly known
term than k-rail and nobody will be confused by it.

but i'd use impact attenuator for the plastic sand/water filled barriers.

also, there needs to be some indication when barrier types are mapped
what they're doing. jersey barrier usually lines one or both sides of a way,
but sometimes it's placed as a block across a way.

i'll add impact attenuator and adjust jersey barrier in a little bit on the
wiki, but i'm not sure what i would propose for indicating how a barrier
is installed (block vs lining a way.)

richard


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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 21 September 2010 21:25, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote:
 i'd say jersey_barrier is fine for the concrete, it's a more commonly known
 term than k-rail and nobody will be confused by it.

 but i'd use impact attenuator for the plastic sand/water filled barriers.

They may be similar, but one is a barrier and the other isn't so it
doesn't seem to be the right thing to do to tag them the same way.

I'd be more inclined to go with Martin's suggestion of
barrier=jersey_barrier, material=plastic/concrete

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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Dave F.

 On 21/09/2010 01:08, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2010/9/21 John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:

On 21 September 2010 09:57, M∡rtin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com  wrote:

Yes, which tag would you suggest? They are similar to guard rails IMHO

Guard rails usually run parallel with the road, these barriers can be
used to block the road to force traffic to be diverted etc...


you can use them for all kind of temporary regulation, in Rome they
use them to install roundabouts before they build them with concrete
and kerbs, they are also used to physically restrict parking in more
ordered manners, but mostly their use is temporary. I also saw them
used as kind of guard rails along the road (in the city, temporary but
not too short, more than a year).


as for name, barrier=water_filled_plastic ?


maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name ;-)


They do actually... IBC's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_bulk_container





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Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net:
 i would note that jersey barrier refers to a specific type, which
 has two different slopes, designed to manage the direction
 in which vehicles hitting it go.


that's the one I was aiming at.


 some of the plastic barrier
 systems do look like jersey barrier


include them


 but others are distinctly
 different.


use another tag for them


 if we want capture all rectilinear barriers, jersey
 barrier is the wrong term, it is overly specific.


I don't agree with this point of view as IMHO we don't want to include
all linear barrier types: there are already lot's of different ones
with separate tags: wall, retaining_wall, guard_rail, ditch, cliff,
chain, fence, ... and I'd say let's complete this list and not change
everything.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx:
 or is it?:
 leisure:pitch
 sport:baseball


+1, generally this one.

btw.: What do others use for swimming pools? leisure=pool?
leisure=swimming_pool? leisure=pitch?

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread Richard Welty

 On 9/21/10 8:49 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2010/9/21 Eric Jarviese...@csl.com.mx:

or is it?:
leisure:pitch
sport:baseball


+1, generally this one.

btw.: What do others use for swimming pools? leisure=pool?
leisure=swimming_pool? leisure=pitch?

leisure=pitch would be problematic. some swimming pools
are suitable for competition, others are not.

some are suitable for racing, but not for diving competitions.

richard


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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread Brad Neuhauser
I've used leisure=swimming_pool.  Using just pool seems ambiguous, and
using pitch (i.e. field) for water just seems too weird.

Brad

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 7:49 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 2010/9/21 Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx:
  or is it?:
  leisure:pitch
  sport:baseball


 +1, generally this one.

 btw.: What do others use for swimming pools? leisure=pool?
 leisure=swimming_pool? leisure=pitch?

 cheers,
 Martin

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread David Paleino
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:32:30 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:

 Is this how to tag them?;
 name:English Name
 name:es:Español
 
 Or do I need to do this:
 name:English Name
 name:es
 es:Español

name=Name in English
name:es=Nombre en Español


David

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and l eisure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread Eric Jarvies

On Sep 21, 2010, at 8:28 AM, David Paleino wrote:

 On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:32:30 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:
 
 Is this how to tag them?;
 name:English Name
 name:es:Español
 
 Or do I need to do this:
 name:English Name
 name:es
 es:Español
 
 name=Name in English
 name:es=Nombre en Español

Thanks David... was not certain about the colon in the tag name... so it's ok 
to use name:es as a key name?

Eric


 
 
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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and leisure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread charlie

Brad Neuhauser (brad.neuhau...@gmail.com) wrote:


I've used leisure=swimming_pool.  Using just pool seems ambiguous, and
using pitch (i.e. field) for water just seems too weird.

Brad



Ditto.  Though mapnik doesn't seem to render leisure=swimming_pool,  
which is a shame.


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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread David Paleino
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:41:22 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:

 On Sep 21, 2010, at 8:28 AM, David Paleino wrote:
  On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:32:30 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:
  
  Is this how to tag them?;
  name:English Name
  name:es:Español
  
  Or do I need to do this:
  name:English Name
  name:es
  es:Español
  
  name=Name in English
  name:es=Nombre en Español
 
 Thanks David... was not certain about the colon in the tag name... so it's ok
 to use name:es as a key name?

Yes.

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and l eisure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread Richard Weait
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx wrote:

 On Sep 21, 2010, at 8:28 AM, David Paleino wrote:

 On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:32:30 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:

 Is this how to tag them?;
 name:English Name
 name:es:Español

 Or do I need to do this:
 name:English Name
 name:es
 es:Español

 name=Name in English
 name:es=Nombre en Español

 Thanks David... was not certain about the colon in the tag name... so it's ok 
 to use name:es as a key name?

Yes, the colon is fine in tag keys.  You will have to quote them in
psql selects.  SELECT 'name:es' FROM ... ;

I suggest a slight refinement.

name=default name in local language
name:en=Name in English
name:es=Nombre en Español

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and leisure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread charlie

David Paleino (da...@debian.org) wrote:


On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:32:30 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:


Is this how to tag them?;
name:English Name
name:es:Español

Or do I need to do this:
name:English Name
name:es
es:Español


name=Name in English
name:es=Nombre en Español

Is that right?  I'd assumed the name tag was used for the common  
local name as per the wiki.  So name can be the name in the local  
language.  I've been using name:en for the English name where that  
differs from the local language name.


NB http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name says
you can use the local script for the default name tag which implies  
that name need not be in English.


--
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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21  char...@cferrero.net:
 Brad Neuhauser (brad.neuhau...@gmail.com) wrote:

 I've used leisure=swimming_pool.  Using just pool seems ambiguous, and
 using pitch (i.e. field) for water just seems too weird.

 Ditto.  Though mapnik doesn't seem to render leisure=swimming_pool, which is
 a shame.

+1, but it renders natural=water ;-) and as there is no man_made=water
(water itself is usually natural (OK, Tritium, ..., but hey)). Bad
mapping for the renderers, I guess.

We should also document something for different types of
swimming_pools: for diving (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diving.jpg ), for swimming in lanes,
for kids (shallow), free form fun pools.

Private ones I tag with access=private.

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-21 Thread M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com:
 On 21 September 2010 19:14, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 add your proposals there (or on the discussion pages). Attraction

 Done...

 obviously only in case we can agree that this key can also be used in
 parks and other contexts then playgrounds and theme parks.

 That page already shows several things from playgrounds, not just
 amusement/theme park rides...


Yes, read above: parks and other contexts then playgrounds and theme parks
other then playgrounds and theme parks. The definition of attraction
would have to change (if your proposal isn't reduced to mazes on
playgrounds and theme parks). I also could live with 2 kinds of mazes:
cultural ones, and las vegas ones (the latter is the one in theme
parks, just to be clear).

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread David Paleino
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:51:33 +0100,
char...@cferrero.net wrote:

 David Paleino (da...@debian.org) wrote:
 
  On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:32:30 -0600, Eric Jarvies wrote:
 
  Is this how to tag them?;
  name:English Name
  name:es:Español
 
  Or do I need to do this:
  name:English Name
  name:es
  es:Español
 
  name=Name in English
  name:es=Nombre en Español
 
 Is that right?  I'd assumed the name tag was used for the common  
 local name as per the wiki.  So name can be the name in the local  
 language.  I've been using name:en for the English name where that  
 differs from the local language name.

Yup, sorry, I was assuming that local == English in my reply. Indeed,
name= is for the local one. :)

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[Tagging] Tagging a currently-closed public athletic field

2010-09-21 Thread John F. Eldredge
Nashville, Tennessee, USA was hit by a thousand-year flood on May 1st and May 
2nd, 2010 (that is, a flood severe enough that is unlikely to occur more than 
once in a thousand-year period).  One of the consequences was that a small 
park, containing a softball field used mostly by children's teams, and an 
associated parking area, was closed due to flood damage, and has still not been 
repaired nearly five months later.  It is still fenced off and off-limits to 
the public.  How do you suggest tagging a public park and athletic field that 
is currently not open to the public?
-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a currently-closed public athletic field

2010-09-21 Thread Sean Horgan
John,

Here is an approach that I took for a similar situation.

I tagged some buildings that were damaged from Hurricane Ike in Galveston
Texas as disused=yes and I place a note saying why.  Here is an example of
one:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/914783304

I've heard others suggest updating the current tag, such as
amenity=disused.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/914783304--
Sean

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:36, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:

 Nashville, Tennessee, USA was hit by a thousand-year flood on May 1st and
 May 2nd, 2010 (that is, a flood severe enough that is unlikely to occur more
 than once in a thousand-year period).  One of the consequences was that a
 small park, containing a softball field used mostly by children's teams, and
 an associated parking area, was closed due to flood damage, and has still
 not been repaired nearly five months later.  It is still fenced off and
 off-limits to the public.  How do you suggest tagging a public park and
 athletic field that is currently not open to the public?
 --
 John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
 Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not
 to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a currently-closed public athletic field

2010-09-21 Thread John Smith
On 22 September 2010 06:45, Sean Horgan seanhor...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've heard others suggest updating the current tag, such as
 amenity=disused.

The only problem with that is it would obscure any amenities that may
have been damaged that they're planning to fix etc, I'd stick with
disused=yes so you know what was/is going to be there.

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a currently-closed public athletic field

2010-09-21 Thread Sean Horgan
agreed.  I prefer disused=yes myself but I wanted to at least mention
another approach I've read.

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 15:45, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 22 September 2010 06:45, Sean Horgan seanhor...@gmail.com wrote:
  I've heard others suggest updating the current tag, such as
  amenity=disused.

 The only problem with that is it would obscure any amenities that may
 have been damaged that they're planning to fix etc, I'd stick with
 disused=yes so you know what was/is going to be there.

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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a currently-closed public athletic field

2010-09-21 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:45 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 22 September 2010 06:45, Sean Horgan seanhor...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've heard others suggest updating the current tag, such as
 amenity=disused.

 The only problem with that is it would obscure any amenities that may
 have been damaged that they're planning to fix etc, I'd stick with
 disused=yes so you know what was/is going to be there.

In keeping with the way of tagging under construction/proposed
highways, you could use disused=[former amenity value].

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