Re: [Tagging] Sports_centre, gym, dojo
Hi, I try to find a tag for a gymnasium (sports hall) in a school, for a fitness centre in a shopping centre and other sports facilities, but I realised there are no tags the community agreed on except for leisure=sports_centre. This is a complicated issue because of overlapping concepts, our multicultural environment and different needs. For example I just realised that sports hall probably wouldn't even recognised by native english speakers. I think we should have a sport facilities page in the wiki where we can list and define all the facilities and their required property tags in the first place. From there we could start off the different feature proposals, but (mostly) we cannot discuss them separately as they are connected on so many levels. Am I on the right track here? OR... we could use the de facto standards the community use (and possibly document them in the wiki). Namely: - I wouldn't use leisure=gym as it is confusing. - I would tag a gymnasium(sports hall) in a school as leisure=gymnasium - Also, a separate, bigger sports hall gymnasium with spectator's stand as leisure=gymnasium. Or leisure=arena? - An outdoor gym as leisure=outdoor_gym - A fitness studio as leisure=fitness_studio and have tags as solarium=yes, sauna=yes, massage=no - etc Well, these are my preferences, not definitely what the community use mostly. So, goto 1? :) Anyway, I would ditch leisure tag and change all tags to amenity as it always confuses me, but probably there are higher reasons for its existence, so don't take this seriously. regards herrbert74 Zsolt Bertalan On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.comwrote: On 4/10/2011 1:09 PM, Alan Mintz wrote: PPS--In the US, gymnasium is definitely not limited to places where people do gymnastics, as mike said it's a large indoor room for a variety of sports--like basketball and volleyball--and also sometimes events like assemblies or dances. ... at a school. The long form of the word would normally cause one to think about such a multi-purpose building at a high school or elementary school. Colleges and universities generally have separate facilities for some of those things and name them more specifically. I never hear someone refer to one of the commercial fitness centers as a gymnasium. Here the county parks department operates recreation centers/gyms: http://www.**orlandomagicocflgyms.net/http://www.orlandomagicocflgyms.net/(the Magic paid for these gyms as part of the deal to get a new arena) __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] highway=path, path=hiking
Hi, there is no need for path=hiking or path=footpad (unless this a road, where you can run into highwayman, but I probably miss something). The existing tags cover much more than I need. Custom, undocumented tags just won't be rendered, not even on custom renderings. Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Describe the physical condition of a way, with tags such as 'surface' let the users decide if it's their idea of hikable. Let me say immediately that the ideology of describe the physical characteristics, and let people make up their own mind is deeply flawed at both ends. It would be extremely time consuming to collect the level of data to make that work - measuring widths, roughness etc at many points along a track. And presenting all that fine-grained data to end users is not useful either: it needs to be distilled into something that can be processed quickly by someone reading a map. I've got nothing against people using this approach, but I find it extremely impractical and inefficient for my purposes. Now, back to the discussion. I've probably tried to compress too many distinctions in here. There is: a) rough vs smooth (by rough I actually meant the opposite of careful, not the opposite of smooth) b) wide vs narrow c) constructed vs natural d) official vs unofficial e) dirt vs surfaced Benefits of tagging correctly would include: 1) routing for practical walkers (getting from A to B, avoiding muddy paths perhaps) 2) routing for recreational walkers (comfortable with a wider range of tracks) 3) routing for practical cyclists (getting from A to B) 4) routing for adventure/mtb cyclists (having fun) 5) showing on appropriate maps (unofficial footpads shouldn't show up on official town or park maps, even if useful) So, what kind of scheme would achieve the above, as efficiently as possible? I agree with Sam that it's not a trivial problem. One tentative idea: highway=footway: 1, 5 and maybe 3 highway=path, path=footpad: 2 and maybe 4 But how to tag a mountain bike path that pedestrians are forbidden from using? path=footpad, foot=no seems weird. Alternatives would be to focus on the official/unofficial distinction, the surface, the width etc. But these seem a bit indirect. Thoughts? Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
Hi, I forgot about the fact, that El Camino and the Countrywide Blue Tour are also Tourism Movements. I have links in the proposal. CBT has one route, El Camino has several. So a TM can have several, one or none designated route. I consider the individual trails on trail-blaze.com as Tourism Movements, while trail-blaze.com is the organisation or operator. So I would tag a cehckpoint on this as follows: tourism=hiking_checkpoint tourism_movement=The Ridgeway operator=trail-blaze.com checkpoint:type=electronic url=http://www.trail-blaze.com/race.asp?race=14 name=Princes Risborough I hope it's all clear now. It seems to me that there is no general term for this in English as everybody use their own special term (walk, trail, route, etc.). Is Themed Walk better than Tourism Movement or you just accept that it's a thing coming from the Eastern Block and adopt the term for it? We adopted hundreds of words from English, English have only a few Hungarian loanwords (coach, goulash, saber, paprika, vizsla, komondor, puli, that's it). Let's adopt this one! It's only a loan translation. :) Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:26 AM, Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.comwrote: It's not an organisation. It's a permanent contest (event, thing) organised by an organisation. An organisation can start several such movements. The Hungarian Ramblers's Association has more than a hundred with thousands of checkpoints. It's also a brochure with checkpoints (and usually a route) and a badge. It's all that together. I summed it up in the wiki page. I found this googling your examples: http://walking.visitscotland.com/perfect-walks/ Perhaps Themed Walk would be a good translation? Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:54 AM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 15/07/2011 23:17, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: Just read my message further. I did. You said Any organisation or association can start a tourism movement (TM).. That's why I asked for an example, to enable a bit of googling. Are you talking about something like the VVV in Holland, or the Ramblers Association, the Peak and Northern or the Lyke Wake Club, (or even informal arrangements like at the end of the Pennine Way) in England? Cheers, Andy __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
I see. Is hiking campaign better? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 3:12 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote: Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com wrote: Because there is no difference. What is the difference between a rugby match and a rugby union match? Nothing. Both of them are a rugby match. But rugby union match is more specific. In this case we need the general term. There are TMs that are not routes. They consist of checkpoints that you can visit anytime, in any order from any dircetion. And there are TMs like El Camino that consist of several routes. I think there are much more confusing terms in English than such a loan translation. And what about 'organised hiking tour'? That covers routes, walks, such movements with only checkpoints, etc., but doesn't sound good to me as a tagging key. It is confusing in an other way, because it covers more than I need (hiking tours without checkpoints). Argh. The problem is that, while English sometimes uses movement to mean a group of people with a common goal, it does not, at present, use movement to mean a series of actions to be taken to achieve that goal. So, an organization of hikers might be termed a movement, but the routes along which they are encouraged to hike would not be termed a movement. After all, the hikers (and the people organizing the hikers) are the ones moving in both the physical and metaphorical senses. The routes themselves take no action. This tag is more likely to be understood by English-speakers if you use a less literal translation. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
Just read my message further. Basically you get a brochure at the start for the stamps or codes and at the end you get a badge for visiting all the checkpoints. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:57 PM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.ukwrote: On 15/07/2011 22:52, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: I couldn't find anything better than tourism movement. I realise that although in english it is frequently used, it has a more general meaning, like propagation of countryside tourism, hiking, etc. I'm English and don't have a clue what tourism movement is supposed to mean. Can you give an example? Cheers, Andy __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
It's not an organisation. It's a permanent contest (event, thing) organised by an organisation. An organisation can start several such movements. The Hungarian Ramblers's Association has more than a hundred with thousands of checkpoints. It's also a brochure with checkpoints (and usually a route) and a badge. It's all that together. I summed it up in the wiki page. I found this googling your examples: http://walking.visitscotland.com/perfect-walks/ Perhaps Themed Walk would be a good translation? Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:54 AM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.ukwrote: On 15/07/2011 23:17, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: Just read my message further. I did. You said Any organisation or association can start a tourism movement (TM).. That's why I asked for an example, to enable a bit of googling. Are you talking about something like the VVV in Holland, or the Ramblers Association, the Peak and Northern or the Lyke Wake Club, (or even informal arrangements like at the end of the Pennine Way) in England? Cheers, Andy __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Stamping_point
Hi all, voting is now open for my proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stamping_point regards Zsolt Herrbert74 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Fwd: Feature Proposal - RFC - stamping_point
Hi! I changed the status of this proposal to Proposed only today, although the RFC was sent in February. Is it OK to start the voting in a few days (hours)? Luckily the history of the proposal wasn't inactive, I received some comments on the Discussion Page. I answered them there and modified the proposal a little bit. Anyone with better english skills than me is welcome to clean up the page. If I don't receive any more comments, I send out a Request for Voting. regards Zsolt Herrbert74 -- Forwarded message -- From: Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@googlemail.com Date: Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:34 AM Subject: Feature Proposal - RFC - stamping_point To: tagging@openstreetmap.org http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stamping_point ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
I was playing around with taginfo and run into a strange set of tags in northern Germany. These are barriers separating opposite lanes on motorways. There are lots of them like this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/118720124 Key/tag combos are : barrier=beam_barrier highway=axis visor=hedge My english, tagging and motorway mapping skills are not good enough, but I want to learn, that's why I ask you the following questions: - Is beam_barrier a useful addition to this proposal? - Is this guy ahead if his time or is this mapping crap? - How would you map these barriers? - Would you map these barriers at all? regards Zsolt Herrbert74 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:37 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Feature Proposal - RFC - stamping_point
I amended the page, but meanwhile someone made an interesting comment, that we shouldn't use this on a building, because there is no building built for that. I answered the following: Interesting point. I think the tag is not describing the building as a whole, but only a feature. Also I don't like to tag nodes that are part of a(n) way/area. And where do you put the node with the tag if the stamp is inside the building, e.g. in a pub under the counter? Putting it on the entrance would be misleading, because it implies that the stamp is on the wall, so you can use it outside opening hours. On the other hand how can I render the stamp if the house already have another icon? Would tagging a node solve this problem? I think the render would not look nice. Herrbert74 What is your opinion? Does anyone know, how this would be rendered (in my own rendering for hikers) if the building has already say, an amenity=pub tag (and I already render pubs with icons)? What would be the best solution? Zsolt Herrbert74 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.comwrote: OK, I will do that! I think site relation is not a good example for a relation, because I'd add the tag to a member of the relation, but it's applicable for a building with a yard mapped with a multipolygon relation. Zsolt Herrbert74 On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 5:31 PM, fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 11.07.2011 16:00, schrieb Zsolt Bertalan: Hi! I changed the status of this proposal to Proposed only today, although the RFC was sent in February. Is it OK to start the voting in a few days (hours)? Luckily the history of the proposal wasn't inactive, I received some comments on the Discussion Page. I answered them there and modified the proposal a little bit. Anyone with better english skills than me is welcome to clean up the page. If I don't receive any more comments, I send out a Request for Voting. Please, have a statement that stamping_point=yes can be used with other tourism=* as long as the location is not known better. Relations (like site) should also be valid case. At least with pilgim stamp points are often located in tourism=attraction tagged building/sites. Thanks fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - stamping_point
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stamping_point ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
