Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
Hi, I forgot about the fact, that El Camino and the Countrywide Blue Tour are also Tourism Movements. I have links in the proposal. CBT has one route, El Camino has several. So a TM can have several, one or none designated route. I consider the individual trails on trail-blaze.com as Tourism Movements, while trail-blaze.com is the organisation or operator. So I would tag a cehckpoint on this as follows: tourism=hiking_checkpoint tourism_movement=The Ridgeway operator=trail-blaze.com checkpoint:type=electronic url=http://www.trail-blaze.com/race.asp?race=14 name=Princes Risborough I hope it's all clear now. It seems to me that there is no general term for this in English as everybody use their own special term (walk, trail, route, etc.). Is Themed Walk better than Tourism Movement or you just accept that it's a thing coming from the Eastern Block and adopt the term for it? We adopted hundreds of words from English, English have only a few Hungarian loanwords (coach, goulash, saber, paprika, vizsla, komondor, puli, that's it). Let's adopt this one! It's only a loan translation. :) Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:26 AM, Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.comwrote: It's not an organisation. It's a permanent contest (event, thing) organised by an organisation. An organisation can start several such movements. The Hungarian Ramblers's Association has more than a hundred with thousands of checkpoints. It's also a brochure with checkpoints (and usually a route) and a badge. It's all that together. I summed it up in the wiki page. I found this googling your examples: http://walking.visitscotland.com/perfect-walks/ Perhaps Themed Walk would be a good translation? Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:54 AM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 15/07/2011 23:17, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: Just read my message further. I did. You said Any organisation or association can start a tourism movement (TM).. That's why I asked for an example, to enable a bit of googling. Are you talking about something like the VVV in Holland, or the Ramblers Association, the Peak and Northern or the Lyke Wake Club, (or even informal arrangements like at the end of the Pennine Way) in England? Cheers, Andy __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com wrote: Is Themed Walk better than Tourism Movement or you just accept that it's a thing coming from the Eastern Block and adopt the term for it? Heh...no one will ever understand what tourism_movement is meant to mean. Let's keep looking for the right term. We adopted hundreds of words from English, English have only a few Hungarian loanwords (coach, goulash, saber, paprika, vizsla, komondor, puli, that's it). Let's adopt this one! It's only a loan translation. :) Adopting an actual Hungarian word would actually be less confusing than this Hunglish translation... I'm still not seeing a fundamental difference between these types of walks and normal walking routes (rwn, nwn etc). Can you explain more? Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com wrote: Because there is no difference. What is the difference between a rugby match and a rugby union match? Nothing. Both of them are a rugby match. But rugby union match is more specific. In this case we need the general term. There are TMs that are not routes. They consist of checkpoints that you can visit anytime, in any order from any dircetion. And there are TMs like El Camino that consist of several routes. I think there are much more confusing terms in English than such a loan translation. And what about 'organised hiking tour'? That covers routes, walks, such movements with only checkpoints, etc., but doesn't sound good to me as a tagging key. It is confusing in an other way, because it covers more than I need (hiking tours without checkpoints). Argh. The problem is that, while English sometimes uses movement to mean a group of people with a common goal, it does not, at present, use movement to mean a series of actions to be taken to achieve that goal. So, an organization of hikers might be termed a movement, but the routes along which they are encouraged to hike would not be termed a movement. After all, the hikers (and the people organizing the hikers) are the ones moving in both the physical and metaphorical senses. The routes themselves take no action. This tag is more likely to be understood by English-speakers if you use a less literal translation. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
I see. Is hiking campaign better? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 3:12 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote: Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com wrote: Because there is no difference. What is the difference between a rugby match and a rugby union match? Nothing. Both of them are a rugby match. But rugby union match is more specific. In this case we need the general term. There are TMs that are not routes. They consist of checkpoints that you can visit anytime, in any order from any dircetion. And there are TMs like El Camino that consist of several routes. I think there are much more confusing terms in English than such a loan translation. And what about 'organised hiking tour'? That covers routes, walks, such movements with only checkpoints, etc., but doesn't sound good to me as a tagging key. It is confusing in an other way, because it covers more than I need (hiking tours without checkpoints). Argh. The problem is that, while English sometimes uses movement to mean a group of people with a common goal, it does not, at present, use movement to mean a series of actions to be taken to achieve that goal. So, an organization of hikers might be termed a movement, but the routes along which they are encouraged to hike would not be termed a movement. After all, the hikers (and the people organizing the hikers) are the ones moving in both the physical and metaphorical senses. The routes themselves take no action. This tag is more likely to be understood by English-speakers if you use a less literal translation. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 05:23:37PM +0200, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: I don't get it, why is it so hard to understand (not the movement part, the route part). Maybe you could use course because that is used in orienteering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering) for a series of checkpoints? But can also mean some sort of way. As a native English speaker, I think that might be acceptable. None of the other suggestions really meant anything to me. I assume that you would want renderers to handle your tags, and others to use them. ael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging I think course is the best suggestion I have seen thus far. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
accreditation_scheme? accreditation_agency? promoter? On 17/07/2011 14:48, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: I see. Is hiking campaign better? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 3:12 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com mailto:herrber...@gmail.com wrote: Because there is no difference. What is the difference between a rugby match and a rugby union match? Nothing. Both of them are a rugby match. But rugby union match is more specific. In this case we need the general term. There are TMs that are not routes. They consist of checkpoints that you can visit anytime, in any order from any dircetion. And there are TMs like El Camino that consist of several routes. I think there are much more confusing terms in English than such a loan translation. And what about 'organised hiking tour'? That covers routes, walks, such movements with only checkpoints, etc., but doesn't sound good to me as a tagging key. It is confusing in an other way, because it covers more than I need (hiking tours without checkpoints). Argh. The problem is that, while English sometimes uses movement to mean a group of people with a common goal, it does not, at present, use movement to mean a series of actions to be taken to achieve that goal. So, an organization of hikers might be termed a movement, but the routes along which they are encouraged to hike would not be termed a movement. After all, the hikers (and the people organizing the hikers) are the ones moving in both the physical and metaphorical senses. The routes themselves take no action. This tag is more likely to be understood by English-speakers if you use a less literal translation. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
On 7/17/11 3:28 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: aellaw_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: Maybe you could use course because that is used in orienteering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering) for a series of checkpoints? But can also mean some sort of way. As a native English speaker, I think that might be acceptable. None of the other suggestions really meant anything to me. I assume that you would want renderers to handle your tags, and others to use them. I think course is the best suggestion I have seen thus far. course is very good. it also gets used in time-speed-distance rallying in the US for a route over public roads with intermittent checkpoints. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 1:23 AM, Zsolt Bertalan herrber...@gmail.com wrote: That's why we can NOT call the THING a route, trail, walk, etc. THIS would be confusing. trail gets used in this metaphorical way, and it's not that confusing. Here's an example: http://www.thebellarinetastetrail.com.au/ That perfectly matches your description of They consist of checkpoints that you can visit anytime, in any order from any dircetion. How about tourism route? Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
On 15/07/2011 22:52, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: I couldn't find anything better than tourism movement. I realise that although in english it is frequently used, it has a more general meaning, like propagation of countryside tourism, hiking, etc. I'm English and don't have a clue what tourism movement is supposed to mean. Can you give an example? Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
Just read my message further. Basically you get a brochure at the start for the stamps or codes and at the end you get a badge for visiting all the checkpoints. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 11:57 PM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.ukwrote: On 15/07/2011 22:52, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: I couldn't find anything better than tourism movement. I realise that although in english it is frequently used, it has a more general meaning, like propagation of countryside tourism, hiking, etc. I'm English and don't have a clue what tourism movement is supposed to mean. Can you give an example? Cheers, Andy __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 15/07/2011 22:52, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: I couldn't find anything better than tourism movement. I realise that although in english it is frequently used, it has a more general meaning, like propagation of countryside tourism, hiking, etc. I'm English and don't have a clue what tourism movement is supposed to mean. Can you give an example? Cheers, Andy Perhaps what is meant by tourism movement is a club or organization for hikers, since he mentioned the awarding of badges for completing particular routes. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
On 15/07/2011 23:17, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: Just read my message further. I did. You said Any organisation or association can start a tourism movement (TM).. That's why I asked for an example, to enable a bit of googling. Are you talking about something like the VVV in Holland, or the Ramblers Association, the Peak and Northern or the Lyke Wake Club, (or even informal arrangements like at the end of the Pennine Way) in England? Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Hiking_checkpoint
It's not an organisation. It's a permanent contest (event, thing) organised by an organisation. An organisation can start several such movements. The Hungarian Ramblers's Association has more than a hundred with thousands of checkpoints. It's also a brochure with checkpoints (and usually a route) and a badge. It's all that together. I summed it up in the wiki page. I found this googling your examples: http://walking.visitscotland.com/perfect-walks/ Perhaps Themed Walk would be a good translation? Zsolt Herrbert74 On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:54 AM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.ukwrote: On 15/07/2011 23:17, Zsolt Bertalan wrote: Just read my message further. I did. You said Any organisation or association can start a tourism movement (TM).. That's why I asked for an example, to enable a bit of googling. Are you talking about something like the VVV in Holland, or the Ramblers Association, the Peak and Northern or the Lyke Wake Club, (or even informal arrangements like at the end of the Pennine Way) in England? Cheers, Andy __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
