Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. I don't know which convention you are talking about, as there is none today in that regard. there is the convention for shop: shop=shop category yes/no are no shop-categories. I assumed that rental was intended to work the same as shop. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. I don't know which convention you are talking about, as there is none today in that regard. there is the convention for shop: shop=shop category yes/no are no shop-categories. I assumed that rental was intended to work the same as shop. I found this combination very often: amenity=fuel shop=yes Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental From :mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com Date :Fri Sep 17 08:38:03 America/Chicago 2010 2010/9/17 André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com: I found this combination very often: amenity=fuel shop=yes What does it mean? The wiki only has documentation for shop=kiosk in conjunction with amenity=fuel What category is yes in? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. I could guess as well, but as there are other tags documented for what you are describing I'd guess that something different might be intended. For the kind of shop you are describing amenity=fuel (and Key:shop) say: Kiosk: Add shop=kiosk (default is kiosk=no) to the fuel station if a kiosk exists. the discussion page also mentions shop=convenience cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. I could guess as well, but as there are other tags documented for what you are describing I'd guess that something different might be intended. For the kind of shop you are describing amenity=fuel (and Key:shop) say: Kiosk: Add shop=kiosk (default is kiosk=no) to the fuel station if a kiosk exists. the discussion page also mentions shop=convenience At the moment 849 nodes and 280 ways are tagged with shop=yes. But only 90 nodes and 17 ways are fuel stations, too. So I mixed something up. And of curse shop=kiosk or convenience is more precise. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/17 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. I could guess as well, but as there are other tags documented for what you are describing I'd guess that something different might be intended. For the kind of shop you are describing amenity=fuel (and Key:shop) say: Kiosk: Add shop=kiosk (default is kiosk=no) to the fuel station if a kiosk exists. the discussion page also mentions shop=convenience At the moment 849 nodes and 280 ways are tagged with shop=yes. But only 90 nodes and 17 ways are fuel stations, too. So I mixed something up. And of curse shop=kiosk or convenience is more precise. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
On 9/17/10 10:00 AM, John F. Eldredge wrote: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales. This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store. Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft drinks, and cigarettes, with a small assortment of overpriced groceries. There generally won't be any produce for sale, except perhaps some fruit. Occasionally you will find a business that sells fuel, but no other merchandise, or a convenience store that doesn't sell fuel, but most often you will find a business that does both. i typically set amenity=fuel shop=convenience for these cases. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/16 Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de: You can rent a lot of things. Today (2010-08-16) there is a different approach for each thing you can rent. * car * bicycle * boat All have common keys like operator and so on. They only differ in the item you can rent. This proposal will be a fusion of all rentals to one. * easy to expand if we have one rental tag * compatible with existing foo-rental tags * shorter periods until inclusion in rendering * most code for tools working with this data can be recycled * easy to tag for humans. Few keys for all rental services * it allows to combine renting with selling (shops) Are there tags missing? Any other issues? will this (or is it intended to) deprecate already established tags for renting? (appartments, hotel, rooms, (brothel), etc.)? Is this to tag the place of the administration/shop or the place where the rented goods are stored? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
Am 16.09.2010 15:19, schrieb Jonas Stein: Are there tags missing? Any other issues? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/rental Yes, it's simply a bad idea. E.g. a car rental station is very different from a ski rental station. It looks quite different, it's used for a very different purpose, amenity=car_rental is already well established, ... This proposal has been already discussed on the german ml and the problems with this proposal won't go away if you announce it here. Regards, ULFL ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/16 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Am 16.09.2010 15:19, schrieb Jonas Stein: Are there tags missing? Any other issues? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/rental Yes, it's simply a bad idea. E.g. a car rental station is very different from a ski rental station. It looks quite different, it's used for a very different purpose, amenity=car_rental is already well established, ... A shop=car is also very different from a shop=ski or shop=supermarket but it does exists in the same category shop. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
Am 16.09.2010 21:21, schrieb André Riedel: 2010/9/16 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Am 16.09.2010 15:19, schrieb Jonas Stein: Are there tags missing? Any other issues? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/rental Yes, it's simply a bad idea. E.g. a car rental station is very different from a ski rental station. It looks quite different, it's used for a very different purpose, amenity=car_rental is already well established, ... A shop=car is also very different from a shop=ski or shop=supermarket but it does exists in the same category shop. Well, Sixt will very rarely sell you a car, but a ski rental station very often will also sell you ski if you like. I'm not saying that the rental tag is generally a bad idea (I've recently added this to JOSM presets to indicate rental services for shop=motorcycle). What I'm saying is that there are places that will exclusively rent you something, and other places that will rent you something but also sell it to you, repair your own stuff and alike. So there are situations like amenity=car_rental where a standalone tag makes perfect sense, while in other situations the rental is only a minor part of the business. Putting this somehow all under a rental tag still seems a bad idea to me. Not everything that can be grouped together also should be. Regards, ULFL ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
Am 16.09.2010 23:11, schrieb André Riedel: 2010/9/16 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: Well, Sixt will very rarely sell you a car, but a ski rental station very often will also sell you ski if you like. I'm not saying that the rental tag is generally a bad idea (I've recently added this to JOSM presets to indicate rental services for shop=motorcycle). What I'm saying is that there are places that will exclusively rent you something, and other places that will rent you something but also sell it to you, repair your own stuff and alike. You can use rental and shop at the same time. So there are situations like amenity=car_rental where a standalone tag makes perfect sense, while in other situations the rental is only a minor part of the business. Putting this somehow all under a rental tag still seems a bad idea to me. Probably we should use rental=yes or shop=yes if it is only a minor part. Selling cars and sometimes letting of cars: shop=car rental=yes selling only few ski equipments and rental is the main business: rental=ski shop=yes Very certainly we should keep amenity=car_rental and not switch to rental=car just for the sake of tag cleanliness in completely unrelated scenarios - and BTW loosing lot's of clarity of the tag usage already in wide use. Replacing current tag usage with something a lot more ambitiuous without a real gain is, well, ... Regards, ULFL ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
2010/9/16 André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com: Selling cars and sometimes letting of cars: shop=car rental=yes selling cars and renting motorbikes. shop=car rental=yes? Better use the syntax of the proposal: selling cars and letting of cars: shop=car rental=car selling only few ski equipments and rental is the main business: rental=ski shop=yes renting ski and located in a shop rental=ski shop=yes? I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental
Am 17.09.2010 02:55, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: 2010/9/16 André Riedelriedel.an...@gmail.com: Selling cars and sometimes letting of cars: shop=car rental=yes selling cars and renting motorbikes. shop=car rental=yes? Better use the syntax of the proposal: selling cars and letting of cars: shop=car rental=car selling only few ski equipments and rental is the main business: rental=ski shop=yes renting ski and located in a shop rental=ski shop=yes? I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. I don't know which convention you are talking about, as there is none today in that regard. Regards, ULFL ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
