Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Am 05/gen/2014 um 17:44 schrieb Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com: Personally I would go with tourism=apartment or apartments. +1, thought this was already established practice. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Personally I would go with tourism=apartment or apartments. +1 On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: Am 05/gen/2014 um 17:44 schrieb Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com : Personally I would go with tourism=apartment or apartments. +1, thought this was already established practice. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Sounds good to me too, nice and simple :) Dan 2014/1/6 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: Personally I would go with tourism=apartment or apartments. +1 On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 05/gen/2014 um 17:44 schrieb Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com: Personally I would go with tourism=apartment or apartments. +1, thought this was already established practice. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
I thought I should own up as to someone that has used tourism=apartments. Although I am from the UK this was actually in Croatia as this type of accommodation is very common and well advertised as such. Even in the UK I would agree that apartment/s would be the more common usage when it comes to looking for this type of holiday let. I debated as to whether it should be singular or not but by definition mostly there is more than one so the plural seemed a better choice. I would also say that from the outside it was quite difficult to determine if the whole building was an apartment block. I would keep to a more generic description. Mostly, I have just drawn the outline of the building and tagged this as building=yes and then put a node in with a name=* and tourism=apartments. This type of accommodation is quite distinct from a chalet. The wiki description gives chalet quite a wide usage: one or more detached cottages with self-contained cooking facilities and/or bathroom and toilet facilities and it seems that attempts to introduce holiday cottage were abandoned in favour of this tag. These are however detached where as apartment/s generally aren't and this is why I don't think chalet should be used. Whether the accommodation is attached or detached is probably the most important information from a user perspective once you know where it located. If you look at the tourism wiki page, none of the tags have holiday in them so I'm not sure that there is any need for holiday in the tag as it would seem that this is implied by the use of the tourism=* tag. Personally I would go with tourism=apartment or apartments. When it comes to the wiki the main thing is to help people in searching and finding what they're looking for. Regards Dudley Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 12:08:52 + From: doerr.step...@gmail.com To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet Yes, I'm saying that British people booking holiday accommodation will mostly talk about 'apartments', not 'flats' - perhaps partly because that's what they will see in the brochures. I'm saying that the famous US/UK split between 'apartment' and 'flat' is largely confined to residential accommodation, and that once we talk about holidays (vacations) both sides of the Atlantic will mostly use the term 'apartment'. 'Chalet' might pass for a holiday apartment in a single-storey block, where the apartments are next to each other but not on top of each other. It would seem very strange, though, to use 'chalet' for an apartment in a multi-storey block. (That's not to say, of course, that a standalone chalet cannot itself have multiple floors - of course it can. It's the idea of chalets stacked on top of each other that would be ludicrous.) The other point you should consider is that what you will mostly be tagging is not an apartment but a block of apartments - a building containing several apartments. (Same applies to residential flats - you're normally mapping the block, not the individual flats.) So maybe you need tourism = apartment_block or just tourism = [holiday_]apartments. Steve On 03/01/2014 10:13, nounours77 wrote: Dear Dave, Steve, Philip Thank you very much for your replies. If I understand correctly, you all advocate to use apartment instead of flat. As being non-native English, I can not really judge on this (I just learned flat in school, so ... at may age :-) ), so no problem for me to change. On the other hand, I think it's important to keep the part holiday in it, since the term apartment is already used in normal buildings to specify the type of building (e.g. being residential apartments), or the number of apartments or so, and though this might lead to confusion. @Philip: I agree that we should wherever possible respect actual use of tags. But for me, 237 uses is not strong enough to make a prejudice. If the proposal is accepted, I think this can be changed later if wished. So, tourism=holiday_apartment should be clear that this is a flat you can actually rent for a weeks vacation or so. Do you agree on that? In general, do you think it's worth making a new tag? Thanks, Nounours P.S.: The page is still under the old name, it will be moved when (if) we get to the voting stage: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holiday_flat Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 08:31:04 +0700 From: Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet Message-ID: cakwfyhxjdyjf2u+gpf-p65kmjxun8nqtm3on82caz1t9evv...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think of the word flat as being
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
2014/1/3 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net: On 1/2/14 8:31 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: I think of the word flat as being distinctly British. I have only rarely heard the word flat used to describe and apartment in the U.S. When I first glanced at the beginning of this thread I thought the OP was referring to flats of flowers. LOL flat was once much more commonly used in the US. and since OSM tends towards UK English usage, i think it's perfectly reasonable for OSM to use the term. Reasonable, but since both flat and apartment may be vulnerable to some international confusion, it's worth bearing that in mind. We already have good tagging for building types, so it seems to me there's no particular need to use the tourism=* tag to indicate whether the accommodation is a free-standing chalet or a flat. If I were starting from scratch, I might advocate tourism=self_catering. But tourism=chalet is very close in meaning (except for the implication that it's a free-standing building!) so I wonder if we can simply use that existing tag, and let the building=* tags help us decide if we want to spend our holiday in a free-standing structure! I'd suggest that adding tourism=holiday_flat as well as tourism=chalet is compounding an existing problem, making it so we have two tags rather than one which unhelpfully merge building-type information and primary-use information. I'd really like to suggest either modifying the definition of tourism=chalet so it's more inclusive, or using something like tourism=self_catering. Best Dan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Dear Dave, Steve, Philip Thank you very much for your replies. If I understand correctly, you all advocate to use apartment instead of flat. As being non-native English, I can not really judge on this (I just learned flat in school, so ... at may age :-) ), so no problem for me to change. On the other hand, I think it's important to keep the part holiday in it, since the term apartment is already used in normal buildings to specify the type of building (e.g. being residential apartments), or the number of apartments or so, and though this might lead to confusion. @Philip: I agree that we should wherever possible respect actual use of tags. But for me, 237 uses is not strong enough to make a prejudice. If the proposal is accepted, I think this can be changed later if wished. So, tourism=holiday_apartment should be clear that this is a flat you can actually rent for a weeks vacation or so. Do you agree on that? In general, do you think it's worth making a new tag? Thanks, Nounours P.S.: The page is still under the old name, it will be moved when (if) we get to the voting stage: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holiday_flat Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 08:31:04 +0700 From: Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet Message-ID: cakwfyhxjdyjf2u+gpf-p65kmjxun8nqtm3on82caz1t9evv...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think of the word flat as being distinctly British. I have only rarely heard the word flat used to describe and apartment in the U.S. When I first glanced at the beginning of this thread I thought the OP was referring to flats of flowers. LOL Cheers, Dave On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.comwrote: On 02/01/2014 13:55, Philip Barnes wrote: Hi Nounours I know its an American, not an English word, but tourism=apartment has 237 uses. http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/tourism=apartment I agree flat should be the correct term, but maybe too late to change now. Actually, I was just thinking that we (Brits) tend to use the word 'apartment' rather than 'flat' when talking about holiday lets. Inconsistent, I know! -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Yes, I'm saying that British people booking holiday accommodation will mostly talk about 'apartments', not 'flats' - perhaps partly because that's what they will see in the brochures. I'm saying that the famous US/UK split between 'apartment' and 'flat' is largely confined to residential accommodation, and that once we talk about holidays (vacations) both sides of the Atlantic will mostly use the term 'apartment'. 'Chalet' might pass for a holiday apartment in a single-storey block, where the apartments are next to each other but not on top of each other. It would seem very strange, though, to use 'chalet' for an apartment in a multi-storey block. (That's not to say, of course, that a standalone chalet cannot itself have multiple floors - of course it can. It's the idea of chalets stacked on top of each other that would be ludicrous.) The other point you should consider is that what you will mostly be tagging is not an apartment but a block of apartments - a building containing several apartments. (Same applies to residential flats - you're normally mapping the block, not the individual flats.) So maybe you need tourism = apartment_block or just tourism = [holiday_]apartments. Steve On 03/01/2014 10:13, nounours77 wrote: Dear Dave, Steve, Philip Thank you very much for your replies. If I understand correctly, you all advocate to use apartment instead of flat. As being non-native English, I can not really judge on this (I just learned flat in school, so ... at may age :-) ), so no problem for me to change. On the other hand, I think it's important to keep the part holiday in it, since the term apartment is already used in normal buildings to specify the type of building (e.g. being residential apartments), or the number of apartments or so, and though this might lead to confusion. @Philip: I agree that we should wherever possible respect actual use of tags. But for me, 237 uses is not strong enough to make a prejudice. If the proposal is accepted, I think this can be changed later if wished. So, tourism=holiday_apartment should be clear that this is a flat you can actually rent for a weeks vacation or so. Do you agree on that? In general, do you think it's worth making a new tag? Thanks, Nounours P.S.: The page is still under the old name, it will be moved when (if) we get to the voting stage: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holiday_flat Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 08:31:04 +0700 From: Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet Message-ID: cakwfyhxjdyjf2u+gpf-p65kmjxun8nqtm3on82caz1t9evv...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think of the word flat as being distinctly British. I have only rarely heard the word flat used to describe and apartment in the U.S. When I first glanced at the beginning of this thread I thought the OP was referring to flats of flowers. LOL Cheers, Dave On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.comwrote: On 02/01/2014 13:55, Philip Barnes wrote: Hi Nounours I know its an American, not an English word, but tourism=apartment has 237 uses. http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/tourism=apartment I agree flat should be the correct term, but maybe too late to change now. Actually, I was just thinking that we (Brits) tend to use the word 'apartment' rather than 'flat' when talking about holiday lets. Inconsistent, I know! -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
Hi Nounours I know its an American, not an English word, but tourism=apartment has 237 uses. http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/tourism=apartment I agree flat should be the correct term, but maybe too late to change now. Phil (trigpoint) On Thu, 2014-01-02 at 14:48 +0100, nounours77 wrote: Dear all, Mapping holiday flats is interesting, since if I look for a holiday flat at a location that interests me, I can spot available flats e.g. close to the beach or the village etc. and access directly to the contact information. Or, currently there are tags for all kind of accommodation: hotels, hostels, guesthouses ... but not for holiday flats. The closest tag is tourism=chalet, which also is for a rental accommodation. But this tag is more meant for standalone houses, where you rent the entire house, and more in a mountain context, where houses are more isolated. It might be possible though to slightly extend this tag and use it also for holiday flats. The problem is, that actually, there are renderers which render chalets on a higher zoom level, since there often in lonely regions. Where as holiday flats are often more dense, where there might be a lot in a single village. Please see the proposal here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/holiday_flat Thanks for your comment on making a new tag or extending tourism=chalet. Nounours ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
On 02/01/2014 13:55, Philip Barnes wrote: Hi Nounours I know its an American, not an English word, but tourism=apartment has 237 uses. http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/tourism=apartment I agree flat should be the correct term, but maybe too late to change now. Actually, I was just thinking that we (Brits) tend to use the word 'apartment' rather than 'flat' when talking about holiday lets. Inconsistent, I know! -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map holiday flats? New tag tourism=holiday_flat or extend existing tourism=chalet
On 1/2/14 8:31 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: I think of the word flat as being distinctly British. I have only rarely heard the word flat used to describe and apartment in the U.S. When I first glanced at the beginning of this thread I thought the OP was referring to flats of flowers. LOL flat was once much more commonly used in the US. and since OSM tends towards UK English usage, i think it's perfectly reasonable for OSM to use the term. richard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
