Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
sent from a phone > On 29. Jul 2020, at 18:50, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Do we really not have a way to tag *platforms*? only for public transport, otherwise you could tag them with highway=pedestrian and area=yes Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 02:50, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > Do we really not have a way to tag *platforms*? > We do have man_made=platform https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/573403125, but it doesn't render in any way :-( https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-28.120497,153.4735093,3a,15y,56h,87.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQZ7zLLgVP6df0JlAaueAzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On 29/07/2020 10.57, Jarek Piórkowski wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 09:47, Matthew Woehlke wrote: So... back to my *other* question: how should a raised wooden platform on land be tagged? For example: https://www.pitztal.com/sites/default/files/styles/adaptive/public/thumb_5101_lightbox.jpeg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Laguna_Mountains%2C_California%2C_observation_area_2015.jpg There is bridge=boardwalk https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bridge%3Dboardwalk which would seem to match at least the second image to me. The first is a bit of a stretch since it's not exactly a far walk, but seems to be related closely enough? I'd probably mark it as a short bridge way with a viewpoint at end node, or a bridge area with the viewpoint tag on the entire area (highway=pedestrian + area=yes + bridge=boardwalk + tourism=viewpoint?) and a bench node in the middle. The connecting platforms *might*, in some cases, be bridges. The terminal platforms aren't bridges by any reasonable definition *I* know. For one, they don't *go* anywhere. Do we really not have a way to tag *platforms*? -- Matthew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 at 09:47, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > So... back to my *other* question: how should a raised wooden platform > on land be tagged? For example: > > https://www.pitztal.com/sites/default/files/styles/adaptive/public/thumb_5101_lightbox.jpeg > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Laguna_Mountains%2C_California%2C_observation_area_2015.jpg There is bridge=boardwalk https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bridge%3Dboardwalk which would seem to match at least the second image to me. The first is a bit of a stretch since it's not exactly a far walk, but seems to be related closely enough? I'd probably mark it as a short bridge way with a viewpoint at end node, or a bridge area with the viewpoint tag on the entire area (highway=pedestrian + area=yes + bridge=boardwalk + tourism=viewpoint?) and a bench node in the middle. --Jarek ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On 28/07/2020 16.09, Paul Allen wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 20:44, Matthew Woehlke wrote: Please see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/651244930. This is a pier with a platform on land that extends into the water. Carto cuts off the part that is on land. There is no part of a pier on land. Not according to the wiki: "A pier is a raised walkway over water..." Really? Let's look at some pictures: https://mediaassets.ksby.com/cordillera-network/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/04/26205653/PierToday-e1556337486552.jpg https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/raycom/X3EB5BF765G5TFHPOBGNDEJIJQ.jpg https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-pmn.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AY3CHTOCXNDWDHJJD2A73ICBF4.jpg https://www.fishanywhere.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/crystal-coast17-229.jpg What you are saying (okay, maybe what the wiki is saying) is that all of these magically cease to be piers at the coastline and become... what? I don't think most people share that view. BTW, Wikipedia defines a pier as "a raised structure that rises above a body of water *and usually juts out from its shore*" (emphasis added). I would expect that most people would interpret the "pier" in the above images as being the entire contiguous surface from the end in the water until either a) where the support framework ceases, or at least b) the narrower section ends at a wider deck. I have to agree with others; the wiki is wrong. (And I think carto is also wrong about the render order; military areas certainly can have piers, so rendering in a way which makes them impossible to see is unhelpul.) On 28/07/2020 18.23, Paul Allen wrote: > Or maybe I've seen floating piers. :) Even floating piers may have sections on land: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/4376/3801/products/10x8_Aluminum-Framed_Floating_Dock_with_Pond_King_Sport_Mini_Pontoon_Boat_grande.jpeg https://chesapeakedock.com/app/uploads/2020/02/garido-floating-pier-1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e0/c5/0a/e0c50a27ceaf9b3ef12a54f6571284ff.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/4376/3801/products/8x8-8ft-walkway_grande.jpg https://www.goldenboatlifts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IMG_0092.jpg ...unless you insist on separately modeling the connecting section as a bridge. (Which I will concede is feasible in *some* cases. Even in my example, if I knew how to tag the on-land part, but less so in the examples given above in this message.) (On a related note, this makes me think we should have pier type tags...) So... back to my *other* question: how should a raised wooden platform on land be tagged? For example: https://www.pitztal.com/sites/default/files/styles/adaptive/public/thumb_5101_lightbox.jpeg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Laguna_Mountains%2C_California%2C_observation_area_2015.jpg -- Matthew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
Jul 29, 2020, 02:39 by graemefi...@gmail.com: > & for one that IMHO is quite correctly tagged as a pier over it's full length: > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/18776776#map=17/-27.93856/153.43009 > > https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10370420-3x2-700x467.jpg > +1 See also (open licensed but worse examples) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Totto_Park_Koshima02.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kirnbergsee_1040748.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kanal_Augutowski_July_2013_13.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pier.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Seebr%C3%BCckeAhlbeck1.JPG I was sadly unable to find nice example like yours that would be on open license. Piers on seas/oceans over beach are not ideal examples due to tides, but I failed to find something from lake or over clearly not tidal area. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2019/05/Category:Piers has "A raised structure which sticks out perpendicular to the shore." definition that has other problems, but not this one. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
& for one that IMHO is quite correctly tagged as a pier over it's full length: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/18776776#map=17/-27.93856/153.43009 https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10370420-3x2-700x467.jpg Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
Could be a groundy path go over in a bridge=boardwalk, change material, change fixation to a pier, a pier could also be floating. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bridge%3Dboardwalk From: Paul Allen Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 10:09 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land? On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 20:44, Matthew Woehlke wrote: Please see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/651244930. This is a pier with a platform on land that extends into the water. Carto cuts off the part that is on land. There is no part of a pier on land. Not according to the wiki: "A pier is a raised walkway over water..." and "Lastly, connect the pier with other ways on land, otherwise it will result in a "island" that can't be used for routing." The wiki then goes on to give a misleading or contradictory mention to connecting to the last node of the pier on land. Since your pier connects to a footpath, replace the bit of the pier on land with a closed way tagged area=yes + highway=pedestrian, or similar (I don't know if area=yes + highway=footway works). Just because the surface the person walks on is continuous doesn't make the bit that's on land a pier. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 22:51, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > Jul 28, 2020, 22:09 by pla16...@gmail.com: > > On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 20:44, Matthew Woehlke > wrote: > > Please see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/651244930. This is a pier > with a platform on land that extends into the water. Carto cuts off the > part that is on land. > > > There is no part of a pier on land. Not according to the wiki > > In such case likely wiki should be fixed. > If we agree the wiki is wrong, it should be fixed. > Pier may have also section over land. > If the section over land is raised on legs like the section over water, yes. Otherwise, maybe. Or maybe not. I've seen a pier where the service road leading to it goes right to the land/water boundary. Floating pier. > : "A pier is a raised > walkway over water..." and "Lastly, connect the pier with other ways on > land, > otherwise it will result in a "island" that can't be used for routing." > > Or you overintepret it > Or maybe I've seen floating piers. :) "raised walkway over water" may be interpreted as "main part is over water" > or as "not even smallest part is over land". > I'm often overly-pedantic, but even when I switch off my pedantry I can't get "main part is over water" from "raised walkway over water." If it had said "raised walkway partially over water" or "raised walkway mostly over water" then I'd go with your interpretation. As it stands, and taken in conjunction with that first paragraph, a pier is only over water (according to the wiki). > > Similarly "bridge over river" does not mean that only part directly above > river > is a bridge, typical bridge has also parts over land. > I'm almost persuaded. But the wiki entry for bridge doesn't exclude part of it being on land in the way that the wiki definition of pier does. > > "connect the pier with other ways on land" does not imply that pier > has no section over land. > That sentence is ambiguous. It is compatible with a node on the land/water boundary that acts as the connection. > Just because > the surface the person walks on is continuous doesn't make the bit > that's on land a pier. > > In case of continued structure I would consider it as a part of pier. > So would I, if the bit on land is on pillars. That's not what the wiki says, though. And not how the OP's example rendered. So there's a carto problem and there's a wiki problem. And I was right to map floating piers the way I did. :) -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
Jul 28, 2020, 22:09 by pla16...@gmail.com: > On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 20:44, Matthew Woehlke <> mwoehlke.fl...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> Please see >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/651244930>> . This is a pier >> with a platform on land that extends into the water. Carto cuts off the >> part that is on land. >> > > There is no part of a pier on land. Not according to the wiki > In such case likely wiki should be fixed. Pier may have also section over land. > : "A pier is a raised > walkway over water..." and "Lastly, connect the pier with other ways on land, > otherwise it will result in a "island" that can't be used for routing." > Or you overintepret it "raised walkway over water" may be interpreted as "main part is over water" or as "not even smallest part is over land". Similarly "bridge over river" does not mean that only part directly above river is a bridge, typical bridge has also parts over land. The same with viaduct over road/railway. "connect the pier with other ways on land" does not imply that pier has no section over land. > Just because > the surface the person walks on is continuous doesn't make the bit > that's on land a pier. > In case of continued structure I would consider it as a part of pier. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 21:57, Jarek Piórkowski wrote: > > This is not in line with current usage in OSM, e.g. > In which case the wiki page is unclear and misleading. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 16:10, Paul Allen wrote: > There is no part of a pier on land. Not according to the wiki: "A pier is a > raised > walkway over water..." and "Lastly, connect the pier with other ways on land, > otherwise it will result in a "island" that can't be used for routing." The > wiki > then goes on to give a misleading or contradictory mention to connecting > to the last node of the pier on land. > > Since your pier connects to a footpath, replace the bit of the pier on land > with a closed way tagged area=yes + highway=pedestrian, or similar > (I don't know if area=yes + highway=footway works). Just because > the surface the person walks on is continuous doesn't make the bit > that's on land a pier. This is not in line with current usage in OSM, e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/172671466 or https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/30726754 or https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/626640755 --Jarek ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Tuesday 28 July 2020, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > Please see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/651244930. This is a > pier with a platform on land that extends into the water. Carto cuts > off the part that is on land. > > Is this a carto bug or should the part that is on land be tagged > differently? (I wonder about the current behavior, because pier > structures almost never end exactly at the waterline...) OSM-Carto renders piers before landuse=military. That is why you don't see it in this case. That is intentional. There has been discussion to re-design the rendering of piers to be more distinct, possibly more like a footway bridge: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2652 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3459 -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to map "piers" on land?
On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 at 20:44, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > Please see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/651244930. This is a pier > with a platform on land that extends into the water. Carto cuts off the > part that is on land. > There is no part of a pier on land. Not according to the wiki: "A pier is a raised walkway over water..." and "Lastly, connect the pier with other ways on land, otherwise it will result in a "island" that can't be used for routing." The wiki then goes on to give a misleading or contradictory mention to connecting to the last node of the pier on land. Since your pier connects to a footpath, replace the bit of the pier on land with a closed way tagged area=yes + highway=pedestrian, or similar (I don't know if area=yes + highway=footway works). Just because the surface the person walks on is continuous doesn't make the bit that's on land a pier. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
