Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Import
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com schrieb: On 1 Aug 2009, at 22:51, Thomas Wood wrote: snip Ooops, I linked the wrong changeset! http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/389 was my intent. A couple of comments. Firstly, the locality field is an important part of the name in NaPTAN. The stop name can be constructed in a number of ways depending on how much precision is needed and what the geographic context is. For example, let's take this stop outside a pub called 'The Woodman' (which is in Ashteed). http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/396115 If the context for the enquiry was Ashteed itself, then one could say 'The Woodman (Adj)'. If the context was wider and one still needed to be precise one would say: 'Ashteed, The Woodman (Adj)'. Localities themselves are not always unique so there is the possibility for a locality to have a qualifier in NaPTAN. The full description for a bus stop called 'Long Road' in Cambridge in Cambridgeshire (rather than the one in Gloucestershire) would be 'Cambridge (Cambs), Long Road (opp)'. If the context was east anglia then one could drop the qualifier and it would become 'Cambridge, Long Road (opp)'. If the context was Cambridge itself then one could use 'Long Road (opp)'. So... what to do. I suggest we need a naptan:locality field which should contain the naptan locality name or possibly also naptan:natgazid as a unique reference for the place (to accommodate multiple localities with the same name). I am not clear what we do, but we need to do something. To me the functionality of the naptan:locality tag appears to be similar to the one of the is_in tag on places. With the introduction of boundaries these tags become less important in my opinion as you can easily find out the location of a feature by looking in which areas it is in. I think, putting the NaPTAN data in OSM is similar to drawing them on a map: The map (i.e. OSM) provides a rich context from which much information wich was stored as properties of the bus stops before can be derived. Cheers, Christoph Regards, Peter We're then ready to begin uploading to the main database. Cool :-) Cheers, Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Railway route relations
Hi all, I'm still keen to try and nail this public transport service vs infrastructure issue. I think this mainly applies to railways, however, as I've mentioned before, I'm trying out a few of the ideas on the UK's much smaller list of tram networks. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Trams details where I've got to so far. The Tramlink in Croydon (London) is a good example of where the the infrastructure (the track network) is clearly different from the tram service patterns (routes 1 to 3). The routes are currently mapped with a relation tagged as type=route, route=tram. I've just created a relation for the network as a whole (see http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/189917). For the type being, it's tagged as type=network, network=tram as well as public_transport=network from Sebastians proposal. Are there any other views on how this should be tagged? Perhaps the network shouldn't be tagged at all, under the relations aren't for categories principle? I'm also of the opinion that we should stick to using type=route, route=tram/railway for the train/tram service patterns, rather than the infrastructure. However, this appears to be the opposite of what's written in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema Thoughts? Frankie On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Frankie Roberto fran...@frankieroberto.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote: The first question is what does route=railway denote, the infrastructure or the service pattern? This has been solved in Sebastians proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema#Differentiation_between_railway_lines_and_railway_routes Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen this. I agree with Peter that we need to bring these various proposals together, form some kind of consensus, and document it fully on the main wiki pages (eg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routes) Interestingly, if I understand it correctly, the division between route and line in Sebastian's proposal is exactly opposite to what I'd intuitively have guessed at from the words. eg, we have the West Coast Main Line (the infrastructure or rail corridor) and the route of the Flying Scotsman (the schedule service route). So if it was me, I think I'd name them the opposite way round. However, so long as we document them clearly (with examples), I guess it doesn't matter too much which words we use. As a first step, I think it'd be useful to look at some concrete examples, see how they're currently tagged in OSM, and suggest ways in which the various schemes would be applied. I've started doing this a bit with the UK's tram networks ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Trams), which so far use route=tram to tag the service patterns of the trams (which seem to sometimes be called lines, and sometimes routes). -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Railway route relations
On Wednesday 05 August 2009 00:37:50 Frankie Roberto wrote: Hi all, I'm still keen to try and nail this public transport service vs infrastructure issue. IMHO the solution is simple. Name it after what you are mapping. For vehicles: The route the cyclist follows is route=bicycle. The route bus 5 follows is route=bus. The route tram 13 follows is route=tram. The route the Eurostar follows is route=train. For infrastructure: The route of the M1 is route=road The route that is made up of the rail tracks of the East Coast Mainline is route=rail. Deprecating route= and replacing it with line= for most things where we currently use route= is a lot of work for no real gain. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Nationnal websites
Hi, Don't know how to respond here: On Monday 03 August 2009 20:09:23 SLXViper wrote: www.openstreetmap.is and osm.is weren't mentioned as far as I could see. Both redirect to the normal openstreetmap.org domain. I added them to the list I also created a wiki page as mentioned before: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Domain_names If there is some Filipino on the list. openstreetmap.org.ph seams to be your main domain name. www.openstreetmap.com.ph is a redirection to it, but openstreetmap.com.ph is a parking page. On a related note, do we need to pimp this site a bit? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Using OSm data for Flicker Map in Metro Manila, Philippines (was Fwd: [OSM-talk] Results from the first VietnameseMapping Party last 18th July)
This is soo nice! murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 8/5/2009 9:13:06 AM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Using OSm data for Flicker Map in Metro Manila,Philippines (was Fwd: [OSM-talk] Results from the first VietnameseMapping Party last 18th July) -- Forwarded message -- From: Aaron Straup Cope aa...@yahoo-inc.com Date: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:18 AM Subject: Re: Using OSm data for Flicker Map in Metro Manila, Philippines (was Fwd: [OSM-talk] Results from the first Vietnamese Mapping Party last 18th July) To: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com It lives! http://www.flickr.com/map?fLat=14.5884fLon=121.0105zl=6 http://www.flickr.com/map?fLat=7.0799fLon=125.6127zl=5 Cheers, On Jul 29, 2009, at 1:32 AM, maning sambale wrote: Alright then. Thanks again! This will be a boost both to OSM and flickr map in the Philippines On 7/29/09, Aaron Straup Cope aa...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: I'm pulling the tiles down now. I am away until next week so that, realistically, means all the remaining tiny details won't happen until then. Cheers, On Jul 28, 2009, at 6:55 PM, maning sambale wrote: Aaron, Just to follow-up what you mean by next week 1. it will be in flickr map by next week 2. we will decide to grant your request by next week Of course, I prefer number 1. cheers, maning On 7/29/09, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hey thanks! Just shoot me a message if you've done it already. On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:28 AM, Aaron Straup Copeaa...@yahoo-inc.com wrote: We'll shoot for next week, barring the usual bad craziness :D On Jul 28, 2009, at 2:16 AM, maning sambale wrote: Aaron, Hi. I received the news via OSM-talk that Flickr Map is using OSM data for Hanoi and Ho Chi Mihn (see message below). May we request you use OSM data for the Philippines? Currently our mapping is focused in Metro Manila the country's capital: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.585lon=121.04zoom=11layers=B000 FTF and Davao in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.0895lon=125.6243zoom=14layers=B0 0FTF The data in OSM is by far better than the existing road data in yahoo! Please consider using OSM, in many ways, this can also boost our campaign to expand OSM coverage in the coutnry if Flickr use the data. Thank you very much and we hope you entertain our request. cheers, maning -- Forwarded message -- From: Ivan Garcia capisc...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:40:07 +0200 Subject: [OSM-talk] Results from the first Vietnamese Mapping Party last 18th July To: Talk Openstreetmap t...@openstreetmap.org, talk...@openstreetmap.org, Sarah Manley sa...@cloudmade.com, Anousak Souphavanh anou...@gmail.com, Aaron Straup Cope aa...@yahoo-inc.com Hi everyone, We are really sorry for being late to send u the result of Mapping Party on last 18th July: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HanoiMappingParty2009 Around 15 people assisted to the conferences and to the party, with 5 GPS they divided themselves into 5 groups of 3 people each. On behalf of the party's organization, thank you very much for those who attended and recorded all the data during 2 hours in the hot weather as well as the pollution of Ha Noi's roads. You can check out some pictures about our activity on that day here: http://tinyurl.com/OSMparty1 http://tinyurl.com/OSMparty2 http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=92438id=536733262l=bf006cf891 Also here you'll find videos of the presentations: http://hanoi.centre-linux.org/article.php3?id_article=108 Aaron Straut from Flickr helped us after the StateOfTheMap2009 (probably after attending to *The State of Vietnamhttp://www.slideshare.net/khanhlnq/state-of- vietnampresentation) and he added in FLICKR * Vietnam http://www.flickr.com/places/vietnam/, the OSM tiles for Ha Noihttp://www.flickr.com/map?place_id=L.CstOiYA5_7VNSt and Ho Chi Minh City http://www.flickr.com/map?place_id=3wLzgz6YA5ns4Pn0 We are now thinking to make another Mapping Party this time in Ho Chi Minh City, and attract more people, and learn from our mistakes, experience, etc. After the meeting, the number of people update information on OSM has increased rapidly. There are more streets and POI points (useful spots: restaurants, hotels, hospitals,...) have updated. You can check out the results of your own contribution here: http://osm.org/go/4dterHJI- There is one more interesting thing, one third of the participants on that day were female ;) Right now, we still have a bit of the budget and GPS. If anyone has some spare time and loves mapping, please contact us here: Le Vie't Thanh Email: lethanh...@gmail.com Vietnamese Cell: 0984.468.147 Or you can participate in the Vietnamese OSM community (operating by mailing list) at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-vi to get helped as
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussel - Bruxelles
2009/8/3 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wannes wrote: 2009/8/3 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com btw, while checking the history of the place node (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/17401554/history) I've seen the name has apparently been changed some days ago to include German as well (and Dutch and French switched place as well), so it's now Bruxelles - Brussel - Brüssel. Now I don't exactly see a reason here why German should be included... Because it's an official language in Belgium? (and we do /not/ want to discriminate anyone :-) ) http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talen_in_Belgi%C3%AB Yeah, of course I know Belgium has German as official language (hence it's name tag is België - Belgique - Belgien), but German isn't an official language in Brussels. Interesting one... I would have indeed intuitively thought the language usage would be defined by region. But as there is no german region (only community), where is german an official language (and how is it geographically defined)? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] road width
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:10:27PM +1000, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, you wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_1_(Australia) I remember after arriving in Australia in 1965 seeing the signs Cairns to Darwin via coast and the picture showing the road going the long way round http://silicon-verl.de/home/flo/images/chronologic/2003-sep-australien/2003100308454500.html No Petrol available for 1130 km between Yulara and Laverton Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Nationnal websites
Hi Vincent: Thank you for telling us the problem. The url to our site is corrected. And www.openstreetmap.tw works now. -- Louis Liu OSM TW: http://OpenStreetMap.tw/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mount Obama mapped
Antigua and Barbuda today renames Boggy Peak to Mount Obama http://snurl.com/onw6v So the OSM map shows it on change day http://snurl.com/onw8t Easy comparison target: Google has Boggy Peak (as was) in wrong place http://snurl.com/onw8t See also Bolans (spelt wrong), Jennings and Ebenezer well out of place, and the road nr Old Road settlement taking completely fictitious line in a couple of places. And don't get me started on Yahoo maps http://snurl.com/onws5 Use transparency slider and zoom tools for full effect. Check SE of Island which appears to have no roads in it at all and the road detail in the north of the island. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/study/elearning/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2009: http://www.soc.org.uk/southampton09/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mount Obama mapped
Steve Chilton wrote: Antigua and Barbuda today renames Boggy Peak to Mount Obama http://snurl.com/onw6v So the OSM map shows it on change day http://snurl.com/onw8t That link appears to be wrong - http://osm.org/go/Y2AFWDF Easy comparison target: Google has Boggy Peak (as was) in wrong place http://snurl.com/onw8t This also doesn't seem to show what you wanted http://snurl.com/oo77r And don't get me started on Yahoo maps http://snurl.com/onws5 Neither does this, http://snurl.com/oo79e Now it'll be embarrassing if I also messed up. -- Jonas Häggqvist rasher(at)rasher(dot)dk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On 03/08/2009, at 11:23 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/8/3 James Livingston doc...@mac.com: In any case, if you have a router that does this kind of thing, wouldn't it be better to base it off landuse=residential/industrial? the problem is, that it is far more timeconsuming to check this for all roads instead of having the information already avaible as such. It'd probably take a bit longer to convert from the OSM data to whatever format your router actually uses, but it also means you could treat roads in other landuse areas differently too. well, tag whatever you like, I just can tell you, that the definiton in the wiki says for residential, that there must be at least at one side residences. The highway=residential wiki page doesn't directly say that, but may imply it. The problem is that a lot of the words used seem to be based on the British way of defining roads and that doesn't necessarily translate into non-British English very well, let alone into other languages (as seen in some of the other discussions). Most of the Highway page talks about British road classifications, and things like (tertiary) In the UK, they tend to have dashed lines down the middle, whereas unclassified roads don't, which doesn't really help people figure out how it is supposed to apply to other countries. What exactly does This tag is used for roads accessing or around residential areas but which are not a classified or unclassified highway mean? If you take 'highway' to be a synonym for 'road' then suburban residential streets shouldn't be tagged like that because they are unclassified. If it's not a synonym, then how do industrial streets get tagged, because they're not highways. In addition the Australian Tagging Guidelines (which Liz mentioned were written a year before the residential page) explicitly disagree with the residential page. Which brings us around to one of the major questions in this argument. If the consensus (which may exist in Europe, but I'm far from certain is global) is to use one definition, but within a region there is a consensus to use a different definition, what do people want to happen? If you don't care about this definition, do as you like. You'll IMHO loose a datum and gain nothing. There are other ways of storing that data (e.g. landuse) and roads in Australia aren't tagged according to the highway=residential wiki page at the present time, so what exactly do we lose? We might not be able to use exactly the same routing settings as in Europe, but I'm pretty certain they are never going to work as-is anyway, simply because things are different over here. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Mount Obama (revisited)
It would seem that snurl.com short URLs are not copy-and-pasteable - well not from a tweet. So if interested here is the message with long URLs (thanks to those that pointed it out to me). -- Antigua and Barbuda today renames Boggy Peak to Mount Obama http://repeatingislands.com/2009/05/31/boggy-peak-to-become-mount-obama- on-august-4th/ So the OSM map shows it on change day http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=17.0396 Easy comparison target: Google has Boggy Peak (as was) in wrong place http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=13lat=17.05235lon=-61.86419layers=000B00 TF See also Bolans (spelt wrong), Jennings and Ebenezer well out of place, and the road nr Old Road settlement taking completely fictitious line in a couple of places. And don't get me started on Yahoo maps http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=13lat=17.08304lon=-61.80496layers=B0 TF Use transparency slider and zoom tools for full effect. Check SE of Island which appears to have no roads in it at all and the road detail in the north of the island. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/study/elearning/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2009: http://www.soc.org.uk/southampton09/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
Hi All I'm trying to update the map using a GPS trace I took while on holiday in Udine in Northern Italy http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?gpx=462905 However, the map itself is really slow to show all the existing ways once I go into edit mode - I have already created a road that was already there (and then had to delete it), as the existing ways didn't come up, despite waiting quite a few minutes. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to speed this up? Is it because the area I'm doing is not very well mapped, so not cached on the server or something? Cheers Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
Looks like it could be a bug or something (or maybe something wrong in the trace). I tried editing it in IE and it does the same thing. I've got some other traces from the same area that I'll upload and see how I get on Cheers Mike 2009/8/4 Mike Ryan mike.r...@redmar.com Hi All I'm trying to update the map using a GPS trace I took while on holiday in Udine in Northern Italy http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?gpx=462905 However, the map itself is really slow to show all the existing ways once I go into edit mode - I have already created a road that was already there (and then had to delete it), as the existing ways didn't come up, despite waiting quite a few minutes. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to speed this up? Is it because the area I'm doing is not very well mapped, so not cached on the server or something? Cheers Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/4 James Livingston doc...@mac.com: On 03/08/2009, at 11:23 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: well, tag whatever you like, I just can tell you, that the definiton in the wiki says for residential, that there must be at least at one side residences. The highway=residential wiki page doesn't directly say that, but may imply it. you're right, it doesn't say that explicitly (any more?), and I couldn't find it neither in the history, but I am sure (100%) that is was there some time (last year) ago and somewhere. Maybe it was on a different page. But I'm sure, it was explicitly written in the wiki. Most of the Highway page talks about British road classifications, and things like (tertiary) In the UK, they tend to have dashed lines down the middle, whereas unclassified roads don't, which doesn't really help people figure out how it is supposed to apply to other countries. IMHO the highway-class is not about lines on the street, not even about width, these are all relative and dependant on local habits. It's about structuring your road-grid into different levels. From the top-level to the smallest footpath. What exactly does This tag is used for roads accessing or around residential areas but which are not a classified or unclassified highway mean? It means that's a road in residential areas that is less important than unclassified, tertiary, secondary, primary, etc. according to your local hierarchy. In addition the Australian Tagging Guidelines (which Liz mentioned were written a year before the residential page) explicitly disagree with the residential page. Which brings us around to one of the major questions in this argument. If the consensus (which may exist in Europe, but I'm far from certain is global) is to use one definition, but within a region there is a consensus to use a different definition, what do people want to happen? There are other ways of storing that data (e.g. landuse) and roads in Australia aren't tagged according to the highway=residential wiki page at the present time, so what exactly do we lose? You will probably have more traffic led through residential areas if also other areas are tagged entirely residential and the (current) router doesn't see the differences. You could also probably overcome this issue with subtags like width (to introduce more classes on a sublevel). IMHO the routing will work as long as the above mentioned (hierarchy of streets) is kept. Even if you abandon all residential and unclassified roads and start your classification from tertiary upwards, routing will somehow work - you will simply have less possibilities to distinguish slight differences. We might not be able to use exactly the same routing settings as in Europe, but I'm pretty certain they are never going to work as-is anyway, simply because things are different over here. this I don't understand. Can you give me an example? I would appreciate to have the same routing and rules allover the world, so if there's something you would consider relevantly (in terms of routing) different to Europe, you could name it and maybe there is a solution to solve it. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
2009/8/4 Mike Ryan mike.r...@redmar.com: Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to speed this up? Is it because the area I'm doing is not very well mapped, so not cached on the server or something? I also experienced the same issue when mapping in Italy. When I was in Germany, it was a completely different potlatch-experience and I was sorry for blaming potlatch in the past ;-). Guess like you that there is some network-problems (are you accessing from italy or from somewhere else?). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
Thanks, Martin I think I may have found out what the problem is. Like you said, don't blame the potlatch!! On the traces I have problems with, I did multiple traces on the same day and saved them on my Garmin eTrex. The device shows for example, the following two traces 29-JUL-2009 29-JUL-2009 02 However, I only see one file in windows 20090729.gpx This is what I uploaded to the web site and this is what I guess is causing the problem Cheers Mike 2009/8/4 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com 2009/8/4 Mike Ryan mike.r...@redmar.com: I originally tried to edit these in Germany when I stayed at a friend's house in Munich - I'm back home in the UK now and it's exactly the same. I've uploaded all my traces from my holiday now and see similar problems with all of the larger ones. However, one thing I have noticed about Openstreetmap in this region is that literally every house has been mapped. Therefore, whenever you try to do an edit it has to load up an awful lot of data. it's an import (the houses). FVG is the common name in italy for this import, the data came from the region. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] main page proposed feature
Hi all. I would like to propose to add the full option ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6#Full:_GET_.2Fapi.2F0.6.2F.5Bway.7Crelation.5D.2F.23id.2Ffull) to the download xml link, on the element's page (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32428515). Actually, the link return only node's ID, not their coordinates (contrary to the export tab, working with bbox). This incomplete information is useless to work offline (e.g. making custom maps). Vincenzo. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] (no subject)
I have put together some thoughts about how you could go about tagging a whole shop chain or similar while making searches for the chain or the type of shop useful. I have put them online in the OSM wiki at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/user:Wynndale/Tagging_branch_networks_(draft) As a bit of background, I am looking at incorporating ideas set out on the page into a Wiki project for mapping shops. I would appreciate comments on the approaches I am suggesting. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
Mike Ryan schrieb: Hi All I'm trying to update the map using a GPS trace I took while on holiday in Udine in Northern Italy http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?gpx=462905 However, the map itself is really slow to show all the existing ways once I go into edit mode - I have already created a road that was already there (and then had to delete it), as the existing ways didn't come up, despite waiting quite a few minutes. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to speed this up? Is it because the area I'm doing is not very well mapped, so not cached on the server or something? Cheers Mike Did you try JOSM? It's a Java-Programm that (IMHO) performs much better than Postlatch. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Low-Res / Overview / Toplevel
Hello, I would like a subset of the planet file that only include the largest and most notable features: For example large cities, provinces, states and countries. The ways should be simplified so that segments are typically several kilometers long (or longer). Is it easy to generate such an extract ? If care is taken with the selection of places / names, such a map may become quite useful for geocoding. We want only the Paris. We want abbreviations like NY, as long as they do not lead to confusion. Sources of information include geonames and wikipedia. Anyone interested in helping with such a project ? Regards, Nic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] api static maps
Hi all According to feedback I recived I have add some new featurs to static API. So now there is a better way of controlling how drawings are drawn (transparence, thickness, color could be defined for each object separately, there is a way to put image onto the map). It is also possible to put scale bar and to put map request parameters into a file instead puting them into url (take a look at paramFileUrl in API description) etc. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~pafciu17/ Let me know your opinion:) Pa ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline
- Original Message - From: Martijn van Oosterhout klep...@gmail.com To: David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net Cc: Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM, David Groomrevi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: FWIW, I'm trying to get it working again (it was pointed out to me a few days ago that hypercube was back online) however I keep running into problems with corrupted planet dumps and daily diffs. I hope to have it working again soon. Thanks Martijn Its such a useful tool to have available Well, I managed to get something working. Martjin, Thanks very much for fixing this. David http://dev.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html (thanks to whoever put the page on dev, it's a much better place). All the data is now based on 0.6 inputs and it's quite obvious that since the 0.6 changeover the data is much much cleaner (many less errors). It's still on hypercube and it's not super fast, but it does appear to work. Let me know if you see something odd. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout klep...@gmail.com http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I also experienced the same issue when mapping in Italy. When I was in Germany, it was a completely different potlatch-experience and I was sorry for blaming potlatch in the past ;-) :) Potlatch is indeed quite sensitive to connectivity problems, whether with the OSM server or anything in between. Or to be more accurate, Flash Player is reluctant to tell Potlatch if the connection has failed, so Potlatch is happily sitting there not knowing anything is wrong. The link that Mike posted works pretty quickly for me - only about three seconds or so. So it does sound like it might be a network issue. Best advice is that if it's taking too long, just refresh. cheers Richard (wrt Peter Körner's post, I think I'm going to write Botlatch, a script which will look for any mention of JOSM and reply Have you tried Potlatch? It's a Flash program which performs much better (IMHO) than JOSM etc. etc.) -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Potlatch-really-slow-tp24808433p24814875.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
Could you please give examples of usage on that page? In the main most chains, such as the Tesco supermarket have the tags shop=supermarket; name=Tesco, which I don't think is compatible with your idea of having an operator and name tag where you would put the name of the branch (for example Elmers End) and the name of the chain in the operator tag (in this case Tesco) if I understand it correct. This wouldn't be great as I don't want to search for a supermarket called Elmers End, which is a place name, instead I want to search for a Tesco near Elmers End (or some other nearby place). I would recommend using a name:branch or branch tag for the name of the branch since it is unlikely to be as important. (Though it would be nice to include in the geocoding search results). Shaun On 4 Aug 2009, at 19:17, wynnd...@lavabit.com wrote: I have put together some thoughts about how you could go about tagging a whole shop chain or similar while making searches for the chain or the type of shop useful. I have put them online in the OSM wiki at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/user:Wynndale/Tagging_branch_networks_(draft) As a bit of background, I am looking at incorporating ideas set out on the page into a Wiki project for mapping shops. I would appreciate comments on the approaches I am suggesting. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really slow
Richard Fairhurst schrieb: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I also experienced the same issue when mapping in Italy. When I was in Germany, it was a completely different potlatch-experience and I was sorry for blaming potlatch in the past ;-) :) Potlatch is indeed quite sensitive to connectivity problems, whether with the OSM server or anything in between. Or to be more accurate, Flash Player is reluctant to tell Potlatch if the connection has failed, so Potlatch is happily sitting there not knowing anything is wrong. The link that Mike posted works pretty quickly for me - only about three seconds or so. So it does sound like it might be a network issue. Best advice is that if it's taking too long, just refresh. cheers Richard (wrt Peter Körner's post, I think I'm going to write Botlatch, a script which will look for any mention of JOSM and reply Have you tried Potlatch? It's a Flash program which performs much better (IMHO) than JOSM etc. etc.) I'm sorry I wrote such a dumb answer. If someone is using Postlatch he's probably doing so with intent. My intention was to give Mike a solution he can work with. I see that the suggestion try another tool is not the correct answer to tool xy does not what it should and I promise to think about it, next time. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
I would name it name=Elmers End Tesco, operator=Tesco etc, So if someone wanted to bring up a list off all Tesco sites they just seach the operators, but if you were doing a search for the nearest Tesco then the name will supply you with the details you need to find it. Its a PITA when you do a search for Tesco and all the ones come up with Tesco 3.5miles, Tesco 5.5miles etc. I like to know which town as some towns are better than others IYSWIM. Now I am off to read this draft proposal as I have internet access now via the laptop. Jack ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO the highway-class is not about lines on the street, not even about width, these are all relative and dependant on local habits. It's about structuring your road-grid into different levels. From the top-level to the smallest footpath. Interesting. I don't disagree with this, but I though I'd put in my two cents - don't forget about verifiability. I think it is desirable to be able to tag a particular way (by considering the characteristics of that way only) without knowledge of the entire local road-grid. I can only presume that this is why little examples like lines on the street are given. If this doesn't apply in Australia, I think other more appropriate *concrete* examples would be helpful, especially for new mappers. We might not be able to use exactly the same routing settings as in Europe, but I'm pretty certain they are never going to work as-is anyway, simply because things are different over here. this I don't understand. Can you give me an example? I would appreciate to have the same routing and rules allover the world, so if there's something you would consider relevantly (in terms of routing) different to Europe, you could name it and maybe there is a solution to solve it. Please, don't tag for the router! Tag what's on the ground (e.g. go ahead and call a street residential if it's a residential street, etc. - these should be defined according to the characteristics of the ways as they are on the ground), then leave the routing settings for the router (e.g. in Australia, tell your router whether or not you prefer residential streets to unclassified streets, etc.). What's important when deciding how to tag ways is that they are verifiable, and accurately describe the physical reality. If you do that, routing (and rendering) will take care of itself. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mount Obama (revisited)
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Steve Chilton wrote: It would seem that snurl.com short URLs are not copy-and-pasteable - well not from a tweet. So if interested here is the message with long URLs (thanks to those that pointed it out to me). mine defaulted to the last item I had viewed on osm etc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: this I don't understand. thankyou for realising this. I can't speak for others in Au, but I've visited many countries in my young adulthood, as well as being born elsewhere again and I certainly know that roads in Australia are different to roads in New Zealand, although similar, and different to roads in Nouvelle Caledonie again, which I drove around in the 1970s. I have also visited Greece, the Balkans, even Germany! Can you give me an example? We have tried, and you just don't believe what we say I would appreciate to have the same routing and rules allover the world, I don't believe it is possible so if there's something you would consider relevantly (in terms of routing) different to Europe, you could name it and maybe there is a solution to solve it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
On 4 Aug 2009, at 21:11, Jack Stringer wrote: I would name it name=Elmers End Tesco, operator=Tesco etc, So if someone wanted to bring up a list off all Tesco sites they just seach the operators, but if you were doing a search for the nearest Tesco then the name will supply you with the details you need to find it. Its a PITA when you do a search for Tesco and all the ones come up with Tesco 3.5miles, Tesco 5.5miles etc. I like to know which town as some towns are better than others IYSWIM. The geocoding can easily look at another tag other than the name tag when it is a shop to give you a more appropriate answer about its name. They can also use some geo black magic and tell you the area (suburb, town, city, country etc) that they are in without needing the tags on the specific shop node/way. Now I am off to read this draft proposal as I have internet access now via the laptop. It needs some clarifications and examples to be more useful. Shaun Jack ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch vs JOSM
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Peter Körner wrote: (wrt Peter Körner's post, I think I'm going to write Botlatch, a script which will look for any mention of JOSM and reply Have you tried Potlatch? It's a Flash program which performs much better (IMHO) than JOSM etc. etc.) I'm sorry I wrote such a dumb answer. If someone is using Postlatch he's probably doing so with intent. My intention was to give Mike a solution he can work with. I see that the suggestion try another tool is not the correct answer to tool xy does not what it should and I promise to think about it, next time. Talking with my friends in Kosovo the laptops are underpowered and hang using JOSM the laptops are underpowered and hang using the browser and hence Potlatch the power supply is completely intermitttent the internet is also intermittent but better than the power supply so perhaps we could run a plug for Merkaartor next time, as not such a memory hog? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch vs JOSM
2009/8/4 Liz ed...@billiau.net: Talking with my friends in Kosovo the laptops are underpowered and hang using JOSM the laptops are underpowered and hang using the browser and hence Potlatch the power supply is completely intermitttent the internet is also intermittent but better than the power supply Since recently there is walking papers. Do they know about? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
I think name should be what the shop is called like (e.g. what stands on a sign on top / in front of it). If there are additional information like the operator it could be added via an additional tag but not as part of the name. Peter Shaun McDonald schrieb: Could you please give examples of usage on that page? In the main most chains, such as the Tesco supermarket have the tags shop=supermarket; name=Tesco, which I don't think is compatible with your idea of having an operator and name tag where you would put the name of the branch (for example Elmers End) and the name of the chain in the operator tag (in this case Tesco) if I understand it correct. This wouldn't be great as I don't want to search for a supermarket called Elmers End, which is a place name, instead I want to search for a Tesco near Elmers End (or some other nearby place). I would recommend using a name:branch or branch tag for the name of the branch since it is unlikely to be as important. (Though it would be nice to include in the geocoding search results). Shaun On 4 Aug 2009, at 19:17, wynnd...@lavabit.com wrote: I have put together some thoughts about how you could go about tagging a whole shop chain or similar while making searches for the chain or the type of shop useful. I have put them online in the OSM wiki at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/user:Wynndale/Tagging_branch_networks_(draft) As a bit of background, I am looking at incorporating ideas set out on the page into a Wiki project for mapping shops. I would appreciate comments on the approaches I am suggesting. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
I'd agree that it should be importance for trunk/primary/secondary/tertiary. The stuff about not using trunk for single-track roads just doesn't match what people are actually doing (judging by some of the roads in the Western Highlands). The physical tends to align to the importance, but what we actually tend to tag is the importance (usually based on the type of signs). However, motorway is physical, and many of the other highway tags are defined in physical terms, or in terms of access rights. So the initial sentence needs to allow for more variety than just importance. On the residential/unclassified question, I do tend to use highway=unclassified for non-residential urban roads. I'm not entirely comfortable using the same tag for industrial estate roads and narrow country lanes (and it probably makes matters harder for renderers than necessary). Perhaps the solution lies in qualifying unclassified roads with an abutters tag when it's used in towns. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging roads
Interesting - I've measured the widths of most of the main roads in Oxford, mostly at quiet times of day (easy enough with a wheely device - I wouldn't recommend tape). I do kerb-kerb. My inclination would be to put widths on nodes, since they are measured at points, but that might not be too helpful for renderers. But I don't think I really want to break a way every time I do a measurement (I did one particular stretch of road every 10m). Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: I think name should be what the shop is called like (e.g. what stands on a sign on top / in front of it). +1 If a shop is a member of a larger group of shops belonging to a single chain, the suburb or branch name should be added in a separate tag (not sure what). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: I'd agree that it should be importance for trunk/primary/secondary/tertiary. The stuff about not using trunk for single-track roads just doesn't match what people are actually doing (judging by some of the roads in the Western Highlands). The physical tends to align to the importance, but what we actually tend to tag is the importance (usually based on the type of signs). Yes, I agree that there is some highway-types that are defined legally and not according to their importance (motorroad, pedestrian, living_street, cycleway, bridleway, etc.). However, motorway is physical no, I don't agree. A highway becomes motorway when it get's legally promoted to be a motorway (by the motorway-sign this is indicated). If there are constructions on a motorway and the separation of the opposite lanes is removed and the lanes get narrow and there is a maxspeed of 40km/h it still remains a motorway, at least in Germany this is the case. On the other hand a street whichs entirely meets the physical requirements of a motorway (separated lanes, emergency lane, lots of lanes, slip roads etc.) will not be a motorway unless it is legally designated to be so (and signs are errected). and many of the other highway tags are defined in physical terms, or in terms of access rights. So the initial sentence needs to allow for more variety than just importance. Yes, I agree. That's why I suggested mainly by their importance. But I would encourage us to leave physical out. We will gain by a clear distinction between importance and physical tags (which we already have: lanes, width, surface, separated ways) and I would also leave out those classes that require legal designation and therefore remain unambiguous (motorway, living_street, pedestrian). There will be no confusion about what is a motorway, but there are constant debates about primaries, secondaries and tertiary. Also in town the physical state is of few help, as it depends highly on the size of the town what e.g. a primary looks like. Furthermore, the physical state will in most cases correlate to the importance. On the residential/unclassified question, I do tend to use highway=unclassified for non-residential urban roads. I'm not entirely comfortable using the same tag for industrial estate roads but aren't they not just what you defined: non-residential urban roads? and narrow country lanes (and it probably makes matters harder for renderers than necessary). actually I never faced a problem with this. Do you have an example? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging roads
2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: Interesting - I've measured the widths of most of the main roads in Oxford, mostly at quiet times of day (easy enough with a wheely device - I wouldn't recommend tape). I do kerb-kerb. yes, that seems reasonable in urban context. Do you do the same if there is parking lots along the way? In this case I would probably measure where there aren't to indicate the width of the way (because otherwise - I was thinking of putting the tags to the way - you really would have to split the way every 10 meters). I don't like the idea of putting the width to nodes that much, as nodes tend to get moved - but maybe with more width attached to them, this would change and people get more cautious. What would you measure out of town? My inclination would be to put widths on nodes, since they are measured at points, but that might not be too helpful for renderers. But I don't think I really want to break a way every time I do a measurement (I did one particular stretch of road every 10m). did you find a lot of differences every 10m? I thought that most streets remain there width (for the driving zone). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 19:02, Martin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: I'd agree that it should be importance for trunk/primary/secondary/tertiary. The stuff about not using trunk for single-track roads just doesn't match what people are actually doing (judging by some of the roads in the Western Highlands). The physical tends to align to the importance, but what we actually tend to tag is the importance (usually based on the type of signs). Yes, I agree that there is some highway-types that are defined legally and not according to their importance (motorroad, pedestrian, living_street, cycleway, bridleway, etc.). However, motorway is physical no, I don't agree. A highway becomes motorway when it get's legally promoted to be a motorway (by the motorway-sign this is indicated). The USA has no such sign, nor do Canada and Mexico (AFAIK.) Do we have no motorways? -- David J. Lynch djly...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/5 David Lynch djly...@gmail.com: no, I don't agree. A highway becomes motorway when it get's legally promoted to be a motorway (by the motorway-sign this is indicated). The USA has no such sign, nor do Canada and Mexico (AFAIK.) Do we have no motorways? Well I can't tell from personal knowledge, German WIkipedia says you got this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:I-95.svgfiletimestamp=20070518055237 cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
On 08/04/2009 07:17 PM, David Lynch wrote: The USA has no such sign, nor do Canada and Mexico (AFAIK.) Do we have no motorways? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I-95.svg -Alex Mauer hawke signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
Motorway is mainly physical. The point is that it most definitely isn't defined by importance. A motorway is the part of a trunk road that has grade-separated junctions, and is on a new alignment, or does by some other means keep slow traffic out of harm's way. My concern stands - beware putting a statement at the top of a wiki page that is only partly true. Richard On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:17 AM, David Lynch djly...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 19:02, Martin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: I'd agree that it should be importance for trunk/primary/secondary/tertiary. The stuff about not using trunk for single-track roads just doesn't match what people are actually doing (judging by some of the roads in the Western Highlands). The physical tends to align to the importance, but what we actually tend to tag is the importance (usually based on the type of signs). Yes, I agree that there is some highway-types that are defined legally and not according to their importance (motorroad, pedestrian, living_street, cycleway, bridleway, etc.). However, motorway is physical no, I don't agree. A highway becomes motorway when it get's legally promoted to be a motorway (by the motorway-sign this is indicated). The USA has no such sign, nor do Canada and Mexico (AFAIK.) Do we have no motorways? -- David J. Lynch djly...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging roads
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Richard Mannrichard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: My inclination would be to put widths on nodes, since they are measured at points, but that might not be too helpful for renderers. But I don't think I really want to break a way every time I do a measurement (I did one particular stretch of road every 10m). No, I would mark width on a way - just use your judgement as to when the way needs to be split. Apply the width to a section of way, and the width should describe roughly the narrowest width on that section. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 19:31, Martin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/5 David Lynch djly...@gmail.com: no, I don't agree. A highway becomes motorway when it get's legally promoted to be a motorway (by the motorway-sign this is indicated). The USA has no such sign, nor do Canada and Mexico (AFAIK.) Do we have no motorways? Well I can't tell from personal knowledge, German WIkipedia says you got this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:I-95.svgfiletimestamp=20070518055237 That indicates that it's part of the Interstate system. Every highway on the Interstate system is a motorway-class (high-speed and grade-separated) road, but not every motorway-class road in the United States is an Interstate. There is no equivalent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zeichen_330.svg to draw a clear line between highway=motorway and highway=something else. -- David J. Lynch djly...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: Motorway is mainly physical. The point is that it most definitely isn't defined by importance. well, in nearly all cases the motorways will be the most important roads. Of course there are also other characteristics and a highly important footway will never become in no country a motorway (without at least slight modifications ;-) ). A motorway is the part of a trunk road that has grade-separated junctions, and is on a new alignment, or does by some other means keep slow traffic out of harm's way. Yes, I'd agree on grade-separated junctions and keeping slow traffic out, while I don't think that new alignment is necessary neither do I understand, what a trunk-road is (Wikipedia:en=A trunk road, trunk highway, or strategic road is a major road—usually connecting two or more cities, ports, airports, etc.—which is the recommended route for long-distance and freight traffic. so I'd say: importance). Though these criteria apply to some other roads as well, at least in Germany and Italy, that are not motorways but considered a lower class. My concern stands - beware putting a statement at the top of a wiki page that is only partly true. that's IMHO why I started this discussion: it surely isn't just physical. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
My English was perhaps unclear. The discomfort is with using the same tag for two quite different road types (industrial estate roads and country lanes). Either would be fine on their own. The potential problem for renderers is that there's a lot less space to render things in urban areas, so they benefit if lower-order roads are distinguishable between urban areas (so they can be narrowed or suppressed), and rural areas (so they can be used to help fill up the space). Abutters seems to offer one way of indicating to the renderer that it's within the urban area without creating yet another highway tag. Richard On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:02 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: On the residential/unclassified question, I do tend to use highway=unclassified for non-residential urban roads. I'm not entirely comfortable using the same tag for industrial estate roads and narrow country lanes (and it probably makes matters harder for renderers than necessary). actually I never faced a problem with this. Do you have an example? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/5 David Lynch djly...@gmail.com: That indicates that it's part of the Interstate system. Every highway on the Interstate system is a motorway-class (high-speed and grade-separated) road, but not every motorway-class road in the United States is an Interstate. There is no equivalent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zeichen_330.svg to draw a clear line between highway=motorway and highway=something else. As far as I have understood by reading English Wikipedia you have different classes (Freeway, Interstate, Numbered Highways) where at least Freeway and Interstate are motorways. Those seem to have unambiguous signs. May I suppose that I would not be allowed to ride my bike on any of these, even if the average speed on all lanes of the 405 in LA is 5 mph at rush hour? Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging roads
2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: I wouldn't include parking bays if the kerb is built out around them. Generally I'd measure the running carriageway, but include any central islands. +1 The road I measured every 10m had widths varying between 7.7m and 9.3m over about 50m, with no change in lane markings. that's a good way to go if you really, really want to be accurate, but if you're short on time you would map this as 7.7m and for many cases this would be sufficient. If you go into micromapping I would consider mapping the road as an area (additionally), just like we're already doing for squares. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] distinguishing urban streets from out-of-town WAS: definition of the main highway-tag
I put this on a separate thread, as it is no more about the _main_highway tag definition 2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: My English was perhaps unclear. The discomfort is with using the same tag for two quite different road types (industrial estate roads and country lanes). Either would be fine on their own. The potential problem for renderers is that there's a lot less space to render things in urban areas, so they benefit if lower-order roads are distinguishable between urban areas (so they can be narrowed or suppressed), and rural areas (so they can be used to help fill up the space). Abutters seems to offer one way of indicating to the renderer that it's within the urban area without creating yet another highway tag. IMHO you have this in all highway-classes (at least streets/roads). A primary road in town will be different from a primary road outside town, as will be a secondary, tertiary, and practically all others (at least in Europe). Out of town you usually won't find BE:pavements / sidewalks, inside you will (in Europe) usually find them. In town you will find more lanes than out of town, ... That's IMHO not a problem, because you can see in the data if you're in town or outside. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Low-Res / Overview / Toplevel
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: If care is taken with the selection of places / names, such a map may become quite useful for geocoding. We want only the Paris. We want abbreviations like NY, as long as they do not lead to confusion. Sources of information include geonames and wikipedia. Anyone interested in helping with such a project ? osm2navit does something like this, it only uses 1 out of 100 nodes to shrink the file size etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
As far as I have understood by reading English Wikipedia you have different classes (Freeway, Interstate, Numbered Highways) where at least Freeway and Interstate are motorways. Those seem to have unambiguous signs. May I suppose that I would not be allowed to ride my bike on any of these, even if the average speed on all lanes of the 405 in LA is 5 mph at rush hour? wrong assumption. In california and oregon and maybe other states too there are some freeways which do allow bikes. usually in rural areas without alternative routes. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/4 Liz ed...@billiau.net: I would appreciate to have the same routing and rules allover the world, I don't believe it is possible I have been to different countries too, e.g. to Africa, and I don't think the road systems are all the same. I know that there is big differences. But this doesn't explain why routing shouldn't work as long as you keep the hierarchy. In the end, you will have to drive on the roads that are there. There is no possibility if you go by car. I didn't say that I expect e.g. travel time estimations to work everywhere with the same rules, but simple routing - given the relative importance - should IMHO make routing possible worldwide. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
Motorways and trunk roads jointly form the most important tier in the UK. Most countries seem to follow a similar pattern - motorways feed into non-motorway trunk roads to jointly form the top tier. Richard On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/8/5 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: Motorway is mainly physical. The point is that it most definitely isn't defined by importance. well, in nearly all cases the motorways will be the most important roads. Of course there are also other characteristics and a highly important footway will never become in no country a motorway (without at least slight modifications ;-) ). A motorway is the part of a trunk road that has grade-separated junctions, and is on a new alignment, or does by some other means keep slow traffic out of harm's way. Yes, I'd agree on grade-separated junctions and keeping slow traffic out, while I don't think that new alignment is necessary neither do I understand, what a trunk-road is (Wikipedia:en=A trunk road, trunk highway, or strategic road is a major road—usually connecting two or more cities, ports, airports, etc.—which is the recommended route for long-distance and freight traffic. so I'd say: importance). Though these criteria apply to some other roads as well, at least in Germany and Italy, that are not motorways but considered a lower class. My concern stands - beware putting a statement at the top of a wiki page that is only partly true. that's IMHO why I started this discussion: it surely isn't just physical. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/8/5 Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com: As far as I have understood by reading English Wikipedia you have different classes (Freeway, Interstate, Numbered Highways) where at least Freeway and Interstate are motorways. Those seem to have unambiguous signs. May I suppose that I would not be allowed to ride my bike on any of these, even if the average speed on all lanes of the 405 in LA is 5 mph at rush hour? wrong assumption. In california and oregon and maybe other states too there are some freeways which do allow bikes. usually in rural areas without alternative routes. I already expected something like this ;-). Do you also have freeways with traffic lights or access not via ramps? Are you tagging them as motorways or trunks (or even primary?) on these parts where bicycles are allowed? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 20:13, Martin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/5 David Lynch djly...@gmail.com: That indicates that it's part of the Interstate system. Every highway on the Interstate system is a motorway-class (high-speed and grade-separated) road, but not every motorway-class road in the United States is an Interstate. There is no equivalent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zeichen_330.svg to draw a clear line between highway=motorway and highway=something else. As far as I have understood by reading English Wikipedia you have different classes (Freeway, Interstate, Numbered Highways) where at least Freeway and Interstate are motorways. Those seem to have unambiguous signs. May I suppose that I would not be allowed to ride my bike on any of these, even if the average speed on all lanes of the 405 in LA is 5 mph at rush hour? Freeway is the general term in American English for what OSM would tag highway=motorway (some people would also include toll=no; that was one of the senses of the free part of the name when they first opened.) Interstates are a subset of freeways. The majority of centrally-maintained roads are numbered, and the majority of unnumbered roads are locally maintained*. Interstates and U. S. Highways have numbers and routes set by the federal government; other centrally-maintained roads are numbered on a state-by-state basis and states may even have more than one numbering system (Texas has about four state-specific ones that I can think of off of the top of my head, and 360 is a major urban road in three of them.) It's pretty much anarchy, compared to Europe. Generally, I would say that bicycles aren't a good idea, even when they are allowed. The legal definition of a freeway varies from state to state as do the restrictions that are in place. * - Some rural counties use numbers instead of names, but a lot dropped the practice in the last 15 years or so when a new law came into effect about identifying locations for fire/medical/police response. -- David J. Lynch djly...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: The potential problem for renderers is that there's a lot less space to render things in urban areas, so they benefit if lower-order roads are distinguishable between urban areas (so they can be narrowed or suppressed), and rural areas (so they can be used to help fill up the space). Abutters seems to offer one way of indicating to the renderer that it's within the urban area without creating yet another highway tag. The problem with that is it would require abutters tags and/or be ambiguous as to what class of highway it is, I also don't think it's a very good idea using one class of highway for 2 very different purposes. Some people are using highway=unclassified to mean a wider than residential road which seems to contradict the wiki reference: No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the lowest form of the interconnecting grid network. This means to me to mean lower than residential, but the opposite has been used and some take it as higher than residential. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: If a shop is a member of a larger group of shops belonging to a single chain, the suburb or branch name should be added in a separate tag (not sure what). addr:city ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Bing Imagery
I know google forbids it, but I haven't heard about MS/Bing... Have they disallowed use of their sat imagery or is it explicitly forbidden in their TCs? Just announced by Microsoft, a new round of imagery update for Bing Map (previously known as Virtual Earth): 41TB. From the blog entry: We just deployed 41TB of new satellite imagery, aerial photography and vector data for Bing Maps covering 189,000+ square kilometers of Earth including 12,000+ square kilometers of Bird’s Eye photography. Did we get your town this time? Check out the Bing Maps World Tour to sit back, relax and watch the Bing Maps Silverlight Control take you through every new local with new data. Alternatively, you can immerse yourself into the application and explore for yourself. Check out the full list below. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:19 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: If a shop is a member of a larger group of shops belonging to a single chain, the suburb or branch name should be added in a separate tag (not sure what). addr:city ? No, that is The name of the city as given in postal addresses of the building/area. Often a business will make reference to, e.g. oh, for that you need to call our branch name shop. In my experience, in Australia, this is usually the name of the suburb where the branch is located. But not always. See, for example, the following link, where Garden City is the name of a branch located in the suburb of Upper Mount Gravatt: http://www.oxfamshop.org.au/pages/81876 Or have a look at www.jbhifi.com.au - click on See All Stores on the left - they disambiguate multiple branches located in the same suburb, e.g. City - Bourke Street vs. City - Cameras. This information is useful, but I think it shouldn't be put in the name=* tag, rather a separate tag. Maybe either name:branch=* or branch_name=*. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bing Imagery
I hope they do, they have several areas with high-res that are not covered in yahoo! in the Philippines On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:36 AM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: I know google forbids it, but I haven't heard about MS/Bing... Have they disallowed use of their sat imagery or is it explicitly forbidden in their TCs? Just announced by Microsoft, a new round of imagery update for Bing Map (previously known as Virtual Earth): 41TB. From the blog entry: We just deployed 41TB of new satellite imagery, aerial photography and vector data for Bing Maps covering 189,000+ square kilometers of Earth including 12,000+ square kilometers of Bird’s Eye photography. Did we get your town this time? Check out the Bing Maps World Tour to sit back, relax and watch the Bing Maps Silverlight Control take you through every new local with new data. Alternatively, you can immerse yourself into the application and explore for yourself. Check out the full list below. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
as far as I know freeway require that there are no intersections and access is via ramp. but this independent from bike access. Know one example where freeway ends just for a single access without ramp and starts again after ~ 100m yes usually these interruptions are tagged as trunk. US 101 in california is a good example. It changes from Primary or trunk to motorway many times. mainly the northern part is open for bikes. On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/8/5 Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com: As far as I have understood by reading English Wikipedia you have different classes (Freeway, Interstate, Numbered Highways) where at least Freeway and Interstate are motorways. Those seem to have unambiguous signs. May I suppose that I would not be allowed to ride my bike on any of these, even if the average speed on all lanes of the 405 in LA is 5 mph at rush hour? wrong assumption. In california and oregon and maybe other states too there are some freeways which do allow bikes. usually in rural areas without alternative routes. I already expected something like this ;-). Do you also have freeways with traffic lights or access not via ramps? Are you tagging them as motorways or trunks (or even primary?) on these parts where bicycles are allowed? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 4/8/09, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: The potential problem for renderers is that there's a lot less space to render things in urban areas, so they benefit if lower-order roads are distinguishable between urban areas (so they can be narrowed or suppressed), and rural areas (so they can be used to help fill up the space). Abutters seems to offer one way of indicating to the renderer that it's within the urban area without creating yet another highway tag. The problem with that is it would require abutters tags and/or be ambiguous as to what class of highway it is, I also don't think it's a very good idea using one class of highway for 2 very different purposes. Some people are using highway=unclassified to mean a wider than residential road which seems to contradict the wiki reference: No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the lowest form of the interconnecting grid network. This means to me to mean lower than residential, but the opposite has been used and some take it as higher than residential. highway tag identifies a linear feature that can be navigated along ... what seems to have been lost is the distinctions that are applied to train and water traffic, so while we have waterway and railway, we do not have 'footway' waterways have towpaths which are footways and so do some railways although those WOULD normally be marked with separate routes and so perhaps should towpaths. But the point I'm trying to make is that route which are essentially vehicle free are not easily identified currently. If these routes are stripped off from the 'highway' network, and route that are essentially vehicular are identified by 'highway', then we tidy up the definition of highway, 'cycleway' and 'bridleway' might complete this picture? We then come back to the relative 'levels' of highway tag, and these ARE fairly well formed for the major road classifications, motorway, trunk, primary and secondary form the major vehicle routing system, and I will not go into rant mode here about 20 mile per hour speed limits on primary roads because they are 'residential' - in that instance there is a missing bypass route of some sort ;) Roads within industrial areas or housing estates, may be 'short cuts' on the main 'interchange' map, but unless those routes are designated primary or secondary, the '20 mile per hour' speed should be considered to apply as these are essentially areas where the vehicular use is not the primary use, and children playing or vehicles being unloaded takes a higher priority? 'Urban' areas should on the whole be covered by 'residential' or 'service' in between the 4 main vehicle route tags. Although personally I'd prefer that motorway service roads were not grouped with 'industrial'. 'shopping' may have a place for filling in the gaps in these cases, but I do not see any reason that 'unclassified' would be used within an urban area? This leaves tertiary and unclassified for those roads outside urban areas and on the whole tertiary probably applies better leaving unclassified for roads such as farm tracks or routes where the vehicular usage may be questionable. Certainly an 'unclassified' highway should not be capable of handling a large lorry so routes for access to farms should be tagged 'service' perhaps where such access is practical, and 'track' needs to be tidied in the same context? 'living_street' is a footway with limited vehicular access as is 'pedestrian' I think I could well make a case for a 'way' having a 'highway', 'cycleway' and 'footway' tag if appropriate, so American motorways that have cycle access would simply add a 'cycleway' tag with separate linking ways if appropriate? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [RFC] highway=unclassified currently is too ambiguous, so here's my proposal to fix it.
Currently highway=unclassified is too ambiguous, and while there was a proposal to replace this with highway=minor this seems to have gone no where yet the same problem still exists. I'm proposing not to replace highway=unclassified but to clarify it's meaning to be one thing, that is it has higher volumes of traffic than residential, but not enough to be considered tertiary. I'm also proposing to introduce a new highway classification for non-urban* areas. That is highway=rural would be for roads generally lesser than residential, generally unsealed but some of them are sealed and they generally only have a single lane depending how zealous the grader driver was feeling. Please comment and so forth on the talk page and hopefully this can be sorted out once and for all. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/highway:rural ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Wed, 5/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: 'Urban' areas should on the whole be covered by 'residential' or 'service' in between the 4 main vehicle route tags. Although personally I'd prefer that motorway service roads were not grouped with 'industrial'. 'shopping' may have a place for filling in the gaps in these cases, but I do not see any reason that 'unclassified' would be used within an urban area? The problem is the definition on the wiki is ambiguous enough that people took it to mean that it interconnects with residential streets, and at the same time they took residential streets to imply access=destination so they needed some what to distinguish and that's when the problem started. If they had marked the residential streets as access=destination instead, and used residential without the access restriction there wouldn't be the conversation we're having now. This leaves tertiary and unclassified for those roads outside urban areas and on the whole tertiary probably applies better leaving unclassified for roads such as farm tracks or routes where the vehicular usage may be questionable. Certainly an 'unclassified' highway should not be capable of handling a large lorry so routes for access to farms should be tagged 'service' perhaps where such access is practical, and 'track' needs to be tidied in the same context? Unfortunately that's not how everyone sees it, it really depends on what you're used to as to how you take the meaning of the current wiki definition. I think I could well make a case for a 'way' having a 'highway', 'cycleway' and 'footway' tag if appropriate, so American motorways that have cycle access would simply add a 'cycleway' tag with separate linking ways if appropriate? If a bike can legally go somewhere it should be tagged as such for the bike routing software to figure it all out :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Coral Sea Islands
Having seen that many are annoyed with this location showing up (I agree) and having read the wikipedia article on it. I've changed the place=country to place=state as it is a territory governed by Australia this more accurately describes the status. This should also mean it will not show up as much. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Trivia - Husband and Wife Team
On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 23:37 +1000, Nick Hocking wrote: Apart from Victoria and Albert does anyone know of an example where A Husband and Wife have both had roads named after them and that these roads intersect. At the risk of seeming obvious, a more modern example: Elizabeth Way Phillip Highway http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.72162lon=138.66919zoom=17 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Coral Sea Islands
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Having seen that many are annoyed with this location showing up (I agree) and having read the wikipedia article on it. I've changed the place=country to place=state as it is a territory governed by Australia this more accurately describes the status. This should also mean it will not show up as much. Actually it was showing up more when I was tweaking font/fontsize settings for states. I'm not sure that changing it from a country to a state will have much difference to be honest, but this is a rendering tweak issue, not a data issue. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Australian Rendering
I've shrunk the shields to about half size, but now the text is becoming unreadable. Anyone able to make suggestions on shield/text size etc? http://maps.bigtincan.com/?zoom=11lat=-33.86947lon=151.05768layers=B0 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Australian Rendering
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 4/8/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Freeways/M5/01.jpg 404 01.JPG just navigate to the directory and you get a listing i picked the first one -- BOFH excuse #257: That would be because the software doesn't work. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Beating mapnik into submission
I came up with this with a little bit of nudging from Liz in the right direction: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?zoom=11lat=-33.86931lon=151.04979layers=B0 Also I didn't know Goulburn had a metro road system... http://maps.bigtincan.com/?zoom=12lat=-34.72133lon=149.7431layers=B0 I'm still trying to figure out how to make the text line up better, centring horizontally and vertically is limiting. I made the road shields start to appear when you are zoomed out more compared to the regular OSM style sheet, not sure if this is good or bad. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Pacific and New England Highway interchange area
Someone has marked in a lot of roads, I assume from sat imagery, however they marked them all as highway=service. Also someone only half did the New England highway, I'm fixing it up still, again probably from low res sat imagery, even though they list the source as survey it doesn't look it. Also most of the Pacific highway was marked as ref=NR1 or ref=National 1 instead of NH1, although that's now fixed, but the seeing the different highway shields brings up ref=* errors. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I have been to different countries too, e.g. to Africa, and I don't think the road systems are all the same. I know that there is big differences. But this doesn't explain why routing shouldn't work as long as you keep the hierarchy. In the end, you will have to drive on the roads that are there. There is no possibility if you go by car. I didn't say that I expect e.g. travel time estimations to work everywhere with the same rules, but simple routing - given the relative importance - should IMHO make routing possible worldwide. Liz, he has a point and it's very clear the Germans aren't going to let this go, the only solution regardless of who is right, wrong or indiff or who got there first is to replace highway=unclassified to something else. Then make this explicit in the main wiki pages what it exactly means. Anyone have any objection to highway=rural? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: Anyone have any objection to highway=rural? Depends how you define it. If it's verifiable and exists only to describe the way, there's no objection from me. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: highway=rural seems a logical choice. Perhaps just work out a semi-rigid definition, such as: Any road which is: a) Primarily boarded by land used for primary production and b) Exists primarily to provide transport to service the properties adjacent to it. Ie: the majority of drivers on the road are traveling to or from a property rather than between rural centers. Thoughts? You haven't traveled much in western areas have you? :) Parts of National Highway 1 are a 4wd dirt track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_1_(Australia) However there are numerous, mostly all weather gravel roads in western NSW alone, although too much rain makes them unusable, but the primary purpose in some cases is to go between towns but the funding was never forth coming to seal them. Another good example is the Fitzroy Development Road in Northern QLD http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=-32.7508,151.5851sll=-25.335448,135.745076sspn=56.828725,114.169922ie=UTF8ll=-23.52307,149.431229spn=0.465892,1.153564z=11 It is rough as guts from what I've been told :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Depends how you define it. If it's verifiable and exists only to describe the way, there's no objection from me. It would essentially replace the meanings on this page for unclassified and unclassified would then be used as the Germans and others in Europe have been using it as a wide-ish industrial road in a urban area. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Regional_Roads ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: This road would be tagged residential or unclassified if it was in a metropolitan or urban centre When rendered should be the same as unclassified and residential. I wouldn't reference another highway class, but instead I'd more or less copy the current unclassified description: No administrative classification. Rural roads typically form the lowest form of the interconnecting grid network in non-Urban areas. Depends on which part some of it's good, others mm. Sorry, I should have put that the northern end is ok, but the southern end is rough as guts. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: I don't like that. 1) are you really suggesting using highway=rural for Other streets. Not generally through routes.? No, perhaps that was a bad example as I wasn't explicit. I would do this: No administrative classification. Rural roads typically form the lowest form of the non-Urban interconnecting grid network. Anything non-connecting would be almost a service road? 2) and are you really suggesting that highway=unclassified be defined as a wide-ish industrial road in an urban area? Width should be specified with width=*. An urban area is too vague. Industrial road is also too vague. People are reading the meaning of unclassified as a rung higher than residential, and treating residential as access=destination. Which might be fine in Europe but residential roads are used as interconnecting roads in a lot of Australia. Councils and the like just don't plan major through fares very well they just tend to upgrade them if people use them a lot, or that's what it seems to me. So I'm suggesting to make highway=unclassified as: No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the form of the interconnecting grid network of residential and other Urban road ways. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:59 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: [ highway=rural means ] No administrative classification. Rural roads typically form the lowest form of the non-Urban interconnecting grid network. Anything non-connecting would be almost a service road? Sounds ok. But you would need to define urban. People are reading the meaning of unclassified as a rung higher than residential, and treating residential as access=destination. Which might be fine in Europe but residential roads are used as interconnecting roads in a lot of Australia. Councils and the like just don't plan major through fares very well they just tend to upgrade them if people use them a lot, or that's what it seems to me. So I'm suggesting to make highway=unclassified as: No administrative classification. Unclassified roads typically form the form of the interconnecting grid network of residential and other Urban road ways. That definition confuses me. Unclassified roads form...the...network of residential...ways. That doesn't make sense. Is the network of residential and other urban road ways highway=residential or highway=unclassified? Do you mean the following?: 1) highway=residential is used for roads that are in any urban or non-urban areas accessing or around residential areas AND are not important enough to be highway=unclassified 2) highway=unclassified is used for roads that are in any urban area (including residential) that are more important than highway=residential AND are not important enough to be highway=tertiary ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
Never been further West than Parkes, I'm afraid. I guess this comes down to tagging what exists vs tagging intended use. For instance there are parts of the Pacific Highway which are 2 lanes but are tagged as trunk because they're the Pacific Highway and are therefore the most major road in the area. The situation you're describing of a major thoroughfare which is just a gravel road should probably be tagged as unsealed primary while roads of similar construction which exist so that farmers can get home could come under rural, even if both of them are nothing more than tracks in a coastal dweller's world view. (cripes that's a long sentence, sorry about that :p). - Original Message - From: John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org --- On Tue, 4/8/09, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: highway=rural seems a logical choice. Perhaps just work out a semi-rigid definition, such as: Any road which is: a) Primarily boarded by land used for primary production and b) Exists primarily to provide transport to service the properties adjacent to it. Ie: the majority of drivers on the road are traveling to or from a property rather than between rural centers. Thoughts? You haven't traveled much in western areas have you? :) Parts of National Highway 1 are a 4wd dirt track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_1_(Australia) However there are numerous, mostly all weather gravel roads in western NSW alone, although too much rain makes them unusable, but the primary purpose in some cases is to go between towns but the funding was never forth coming to seal them. Another good example is the Fitzroy Development Road in Northern QLD http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=- 32.7508,151.5851sll=-25.335448,135.745076sspn=56.828725,114.169922ie=UTF8ll=-23.52307,149.431229spn=0.465892,1.153564z=11 It is rough as guts from what I've been told :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:25 PM, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: I guess this comes down to tagging what exists vs tagging intended use. For instance there are parts of the Pacific Highway which are 2 lanes but are tagged as trunk because they're the Pacific Highway and are therefore the most major road in the area. The situation you're describing of a major thoroughfare which is just a gravel road should probably be tagged as unsealed primary while roads of similar construction which exist so that farmers can get home could come under rural Well said. I think it should be our primary focus to tag what exists (with surface=, width=, lanes=, etc) and ALSO tag intended use. They can co-exist peacefully, as long as we are conscious of which tags are designed to serve which purpose (which apparently doesn't seem to be the case at the moment, for highway=*). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: The situation you're describing of a major thoroughfare which is just a gravel road should probably be tagged as unsealed primary while roads of similar construction which exist so that farmers can get home could come under rural, even if both of them are nothing more than tracks in a coastal dweller's world view. (cripes that's a long sentence, sorry about that :p). The track is the bit that connects the unsealed road to their farm. In most cases, these roads would be considered tertiary at best, however there may be a tertiary road that is unsealed with connecting rural roads. http://maps.bigtincan.com/?zoom=13lat=-29.41871lon=151.00979layers=B0 The tertiary road is unsealed but is a fairly busy road compared to others that interconnect that are also unsealed, by going that way you can save 50km compared to taking the sealed route. There is still a lot of sealed roads in rural areas, the unsealed ones are short cuts even if there is a sealed route you can take. Most of these roads aren't the most pleasant route to take if you don't like bull dust and corrugates and other sorts of uneven surfaces, I wouldn't consider them to be tracks or residential either for that matter. I just realised in typing the last couple of emails that depending where you are from it depends how you interpret the current meaning of highway=unclassified. Hopefully by adding a couple of words in the right spot it will clarify things much better. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Tue, 4/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds ok. But you would need to define urban. from dictionary.com: ur⋅ban [ur-buhn] Show IPA Use urban in a Sentence 1. of, pertaining to, or designating a city or town. 2. living in a city. 3. characteristic of or accustomed to cities; citified: He is an urban type. Although the intended use is the first, urban=town/city, I very much doubt that there would be enough roads in anything smaller than a town to need a higher capacity version of a residential road. That definition confuses me. Unclassified roads form...the...network of residential...ways. That doesn't make sense. Is the network of residential and other urban road ways highway=residential or highway=unclassified? Someone can probably clean up my intent a little, basically what I was trying to achieve was to say unclassified roads interconnect with residential and other roads and are likely to have slightly higher volumes of traffic than residential, most europeans seem to think residential implies access=destination so they used unclassified to indicate this. Do you mean the following?: 1) highway=residential is used for roads that are in any urban or non-urban areas accessing or around residential areas AND are not important enough to be highway=unclassified As far as I'm concerned highway=residential only applies to urban (town/city) areas, it doesn't apply to rural/non-urban areas. 2) highway=unclassified is used for roads that are in any urban area (including residential) that are more important than highway=residential AND are not important enough to be highway=tertiary bingo primary - secondary - tertiary - unclassified - residential Which is how the Germans have been using it, and the software they write is coded to work that way. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: Although the intended use is the first, urban=town/city, I very much doubt that there would be enough roads in anything smaller than a town to need a higher capacity version of a residential road. Ok with me. Someone can probably clean up my intent a little, basically what I was trying to achieve was to say unclassified roads interconnect with residential and other roads and are likely to have slightly higher volumes of traffic than residential, most europeans seem to think residential implies access=destination so they used unclassified to indicate this. Maybe just say that, then, when it comes time to update the wiki :) Unclassified roads are likely to have slightly higher volumes of traffic than residential. As far as I'm concerned highway=residential only applies to urban (town/city) areas, it doesn't apply to rural/non-urban areas. Ok. Nice and clear. 2) highway=unclassified is used for roads that are in any urban area (including residential) that are more important than highway=residential AND are not important enough to be highway=tertiary bingo primary - secondary - tertiary - unclassified - residential Ok. Clear enough. In other words, unclassified = quartary and below. If this goes ahead I look forward to the wiki pages being cleaned up accordingly... :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
--- On Wed, 5/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Ok. Clear enough. In other words, unclassified = quartary and below. If this goes ahead I look forward to the wiki pages being cleaned up accordingly... :) I'd update it now but that's bound to upset someone somewhere. I guess put a proposal in for highway=rural and have the proposal update the highway=unclassified deff. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] residential and unclassified in Australia WAS definition of the main highway-tag
While I don't feel it would be wise to alter the current wiki pages I made a proposal to try and sort it out indirectly. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/highway:rural ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another Brisbane OpenStreetMap Friday meetup in two weeks
Brisbane mappers (and other interested parties), I have arranged another OpenStreetMap meetup for Friday 21 August at Southbank after work. Come and meet OpenStreetMappers and maybe do a little micro-mapping of Southbank if you're up to it. The venue is currently TBA, but will probably be a restaurant around Southbank somewhere. Details here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brisbane/Mapping_Parties/2009-08 Please pass this message onto anyone you think might be interested. See you then, - David -- David Dean Post-Doctoral Fellow, RP-SAIVT, QUT (me) http://www.davidbdean.com (saivt) http://www.bee.qut.edu.au/projects/saivt/ (post) Room S1102, GPO Box 2434, Brisbane, Australia 4001 (p) +61 7 3138 1414 (m) 0407 151 912 (f) +61 7 3138 1516 (CRICOS) 00213J ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Mapa do Rio Grande do Sul para Garmin
Bom dia, Estou publicando os arquivos .IMG para dispositivos Garmin, do estado do Rio Grande do Sul, com dados do osm.org. Anúncio: http://www.avila.eti.br/2009/08/openstreetmap-mapa-do-rio-grande-do-sul.html Página de download: http://l.avila.eti.br/garmin-download Acompanhe as atualizações: twitter.com/RodrigoAvila -- Rodrigo de Avila Analista de Desenvolvimento +55 51 9733.3488 . rodr...@avila.eti.br mailto:rodr...@avila.eti.br . www.avila.eti.br http://www.avila.eti.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] Tradução do osm.org
Olá, Enviei uma nova versão do arquivo de localização do http://osm.org para o trac ( http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/16859 ). Além da tradução dos novos termos e pequenos consertos, a legenda (Map Key) foi traduzida e os exemplos de busca alterados para exemplos que retornam bons resultados (sobretudo a busca por features). Avisem se tiver algum problema na tradução da legenda, que provavelmente é o mais problemático. O sistema de busca está funcionando, mas seria bom se o http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt-br:Search fosse populado com informações de uso. Devo escrever algo lá em breve (assim que conseguir um tempo), mas ajuda é bem vinda :). O repositório onde mantenho a minha versão do pt-BR.yml está aqui: http://svale.eng.br/git/osm-pt_br.git/ Abraço, -- Samuel Vale srcv...@minaslivre.org signature.asc Description: Esta é uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] (Meio Off, ou não) Pedal explorat ório urbano: Humaitá, Jardim Botânico e Horto
É exatamente assim que eu imagino mapping parties ciclísticas... Sent to you by Nighto via Google Reader: Pedal exploratório urbano: Humaitá, Jardim Botânico e Horto via Diário de Uma Mulher de Ciclos by Mulher de Ciclos on 7/25/09 Um roteiro pronto, meticulosamente traçado, caiu de bandeja nas mãos da Mulher de Ciclos. O autor - que pediu para não ser identificado, mas que mesmo assim eu vou contar para vocês quem é - bolou um pedal exploratório urbano pelo coração da Zona Sul do Rio de Janeiro, por ruas e recantos que muitos cariocas desconhecem, inclusive a dupla de protagonistas da história. Assim partiram para realizar a empreitada. Além de traçar o roteiro, Monsieur Le Tradeaux também iria registrar os locais pelos quais passariam com sua incansável câmera. Estavam com uma sequência de três mapas, e o primeiro deles começaria pela Rua Viúva Lacerda, no Humaitá. Para chegar lá, uma volta na Lagoa Rodrigo de Freitas, mais vazia que o normal. Mérito do céu cinza, ameaçador. No fim da rua - uma grande ladeira de paralelepípedos - checariam se há passagem para a Rua Euclides Figueiredo. Não havia. No fim da subida, mata fechada, uma pracinha e entrada para uma trilha que não se sabe onde vai parar. Desceram e tomaram a Rua Vitório da Costa. Esta sim daria continuidade ao pedal, sempre subindo. Sucederam-se as Ruas Maria Eugênia e - finalmente - a Euclides Figueiredo, uma sequência de ladeiras de paralelepípedos. E aconteceu uma coisa estranha: uma leve vertigem tomou conta de Mulher de Ciclos toda vez que olhava para cima, para as subidas de pisos irregulares, cheias de limo e escorregadias da chuva. Um temor e uma certeza invadiram-lhe o peito: iria cair. Era certo, era ‘batata’. Haveria de cair, claro, como poderia ser diferente? Naquela ladeira íngreme, de paralelepípedos que mais pareciam barras de sabão. E se caísse, cairia para o lado direito, o lado que sempre caía, e bateria o mesmo joelho, já tão maltratado de inúmeras outras peripécias ciclísticas. Seu corpo todo tremia só de pensar em cair e bater seu joelho novamente, o que a desequilibrava ainda mais, e tornava a queda iminente. Começou a fazer uma associação inconsciente: ladeira de paralelepípedos = queda = bater o joelho direito = dor. Subitamente foi inundada por um horror medonho, um desespero, um pânico. Sentiu um bolo em sua garganta e sufocou. Não conseguia mais respirar: as golfadas de ar fresco de nada adiantavam, a garganta parecia obstruída. No topo da subida, explodiram os soluços, e ela rebentou em um choro doído e maltratado. Poucas vezes sentiu tanto medo em sua vida. Primeiro, medo da subida, de cair, de machucar o joelho, de sentir mais dor, de ter que parar de pedalar. Segundo, medo de sentir medo, toda vez que se visse na mesma situação. Desesperou-se: como poderia pedalar com medo? Não seria possível, teria que parar de pedalar? Não poderia conceber idéia mais terrível! Como sempre, Monsieur Le Tradeaux sabe todas as respostas e com uma só frase arrancou-a do estupor: O que houve, deixou a ‘Mulher de Ciclos’ em casa hoje? Foi a senha para ela se recompôr e não se entregar a seus medos. Não que ela não os tenha, muito pelo contrário: apenas tenta dia após dia não se deixar abater. Começou a olhar para as ladeiras de paralelepípedos com outros olhos: subir tornou-se um desafio, uma questão de honra. Voltou a encarar as subidas como sempre fez: com um certo respeito, um ligeiro temor e o sabor do desafio. Seguiram a desbravar o restante do percurso traçado. A idéia era percorrer os bairros de Humaitá, Jardim Botânico e Horto, por ruas secundárias nas encostas, passando assim por cima do Túnel Rebouças. De lá é possível ver boa parte da Zona Sul de outro ângulo: o telhado da Igreja Santa Margarida Maria e a Lagoa Rodrigo de Freitas; as vias expressas e o mundaréu de carros passando em alta velocidade para entrar no Túnel Rebouças, que liga a Zona Sul à Zona Norte da cidade, o Cristo Redentor logo acima. No fim da Rua Caio de Melo Franco, o mapa indica uma ligação com a Rua Engenheiro Alfredo Duarte, mas o Google Maps esquece-se de avisar que é… uma escadaria! O jeito foi retornar. Descem pela rua procurada, no fim da qual encontram uma simpática pracinha, Praça Luís Mignone, no mesmo lugar em que fica o fim de uma das compridas escadas. Chegam à Rua Maria Angélica e à Praça dos Jacarandás, de onde pegam a Rua Jardim Botânico e novamente a ‘civilização’. Antes, uma pequena pausa para observar (e fotografar) os pequeninos micos que alvoroçam a vizinhança e pulam carniça nos fios dos postes. Mudaram de mapa, agora era a vez do segundo. Sobem a Rua Benjamin Batista e descem pelas Ruas Itaipava e Faro, tornando a entrar na Rua Jardim Botânico, mas apenas para pegar a Rua Conde Afonso Celso. Ali o objetivo era passar na Pracinha Pio XI, velha conhecida, e rever a escadaria de azulejos, lindíssima. O cheiro que vinha de um dos prédios apressou os ciclistas. Alguém preparava
Re: [Talk-de] surface=paved (was: maxweight, hazmat, width und maxspeed map)
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:26:03AM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: wobei die Versiegelung bisher nicht in den Tags vorkommt, Pflaster (paved) gibt es je nach Unterbau und Beschaffenheit sowohl versiegelt als unversiegelt. Überhaupt ist Pflaster praktisch alles, von fast so glatt wie Beton (oder bei Marmorplatten vielleicht sogar deutlich glatter als Beton) bis zu unzumutbar uneben und holprig. Allgemein stimmt es aber schon: Pflastersteine (vor allem die in D üblichen) will man beim Fahrradfahren möglichst vermeiden. Von daher ist die reine Unterscheidung paved/unpaved leider völlig unzulänglich. Du meinst man will surface=cobblestone vermeiden - surface=paving_stone ist ja schon in ordnung ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] maxweight, hazmat, width und maxspeed map
On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 10:53:54PM +0200, Ulf Lamping wrote: Unterschiedliche quellen - muss mal sehen ob fuer 274 noch was schoeneres finde ... http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildtafel_der_Verkehrszeichen_in_Deutschland kennst du? Sind alles SVG die du dir entsprechend umbauen kannst. Prima ;) Sowas habe ich gesucht - ich habe mir die bisher aus den pngs aus der OSM Wiki seite gebaut - die scheinen ja auch aus den SVGs zu kommen. Danke Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] maxweight, hazmat, width und maxspeed map
On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 03:16:55PM +0200, Mario Salvini wrote: http://maxspeed.osm.lab.rfc822.org *Dank dir von einer Karte träumt, die Anzeigt wo hgv=no angezeigt wird* :-D Dann mach mal shift-reload ;) Im moment noch rotes overlay auf der straße und blau dick drueber was im hgv value steht - werde da nachher noch mal zeichen 253 drueberbasteln fuer no und z253 + zusatzzeichen 1020-30 (Anlieger Frei) fuer destination. Der rest der nicht matched dann als dicke schrift :) Und dann traeume ich mal vom tagging von abknickenden vorfahrten - werde mir da mal was ueberlegen + mal 2-3 taggen und visualisieren ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Informationen zur Fahrradstraße im Wiki
Am 2. August 2009 23:23 schrieb Garry garr...@gmx.de: Stefan Schwan schrieb: Unclassified war nie größer/bedeutsamer als Residential - beide haben ja gemeinsam, das sie eben keine Klassifizierung haben. Das eine hat mit dem anderen nichts zu tun. Auch ohne Klassifizierung gibt Unterschiede in der Bedeutung einer Strasse. Bei den Straßen ohne Klassifizierung gibt es genau 2 (wenn es sich nicht um Service oder Track handelt): Unclassified und Residential. Die eine ohne, die andere mit Wohncharakter. So stand es auch schon immer im Wiki: Eine Straße die keine Klassifizierung und Wohncharakter hat, ist eine Residential. Eine Straße die keine Klassifizierung hat, ist eine Unclassified, wobei sie _außerorts_ die niedrigste Stufe der Verbindungsstraßen ist. Eine ausserörtliche Verbindungstrasse hört seltenst einfach am Ortsrand auf sondern ist in der Regel mindestens bis zur nächsten übergeordneten Strasse durchverbunden! Das sollte in den Karten auch ersichtlich sein! Bei den Klassifizierten Straßen mag es Sinn machen, eine Wohnstraße als = tertiary einzutragen. Eine Straße ohne Klassifizierung mit Wohncharakter ist aber (laut Mapfeatures und mit großem Konsens) eine Residential, keine Unclassified. Wenn es dir auf den Verbindungscharakter ankommt, dann ist Tertiary die richtige Wahl Sie verbindet kleinere Orte und dient dem innerregionalen Verkehr.(Wiki). Niemand würde auf die Idee kommen, eine Straße auf der man nicht Auto fahren darf als solche einzutragen, bei Unclassified sieht das aber anders aus. Mit dem Ausbauzustand hat das wenig zu tun, eher mit dem Verkehrsumfeld. Auf einer Unclassified muss ich idR zB mit weniger spielenden Kinder, geparkten Autos und verkehrsbeunruhigenden Maßnahmen rechnen. Fahrradstraßen finden sich aber ohnehin doch nur innerstädtisch und Verbindungscharakter wird dort allenfalls mit tertiary gekennzeichnet, also eine Klassifizierung vorgenommen. Unclassified wird auch für Straßen in Industriegebieten benutzt - eben weil sie nicht zu den klassifizierten Straßen gehörten, und auch kenen Wohncharkter haben. Bei entsprechenden Diskussionen wurde schon mehrfach festgestellt dass es keinen Sinn macht eine Strasse aufgrund ihrer Umgebung einzustufen. Das wurde nicht festgestellt, sondern als Meinung vertreten - auch wenn es für dich keinen Sinn macht: So ist es im Wiki dokumentiert und so wird es auch von der Mehrheit der Mapper verwendet.. Ob innerorts, ausserorts, Industriegebiet oder Wohngebiet ergibt sich aus dem jeweiligen landuse=..Ein Ausbauzustand lässt sich daraus eventuell vermuten, aber nicht sicher ableiten. Es gibt schmale Strassen in Industriegebieten genauso wie breite ausgebaute Strassen in Wohngebieten. Und es gibt eben auch (breite) Straßen außerhalb von Wohngebieten auf den das Autofahren verboten streckenweise verboten ist. Eine solche Straße wird jedoch deshalb aber noch lange nicht zu einer residential - ich will auf der Karte schon erkennen können, das es sich um eine durchgängige Straße handelt, auf der sich nur die Zugangsbeschränkungen ändern. Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Landratsamt will OSM
Garry garr...@gmx.de writes: Sven Sommerkamp schrieb: Nana, im Falle von Parkplätzen würde das wohl meistens auch ohne highways gehen. O.K. wir treiben es auch dort wieder auf die Spitze, aber unbedingt notwendig würde ich es nicht erachten. Das sind auch keine Wege über die man routen würde. Im Falle von Riesenparkplätzen mit Einbahnstraßenregel kann ich evtl. eine Notwendigkeit erkennen, aber nicht bei den üblichen Parkplätzen mit vielleicht 30-50 Abstellmöglichkeiten. Es gibt auch kleine Parkplätze die von zwei Seiten Anschluss ans Strassennetz haben so dass es auch hier sinnvoll ist einen highway über den Parkplatz anzulegen. Eben. In meinem fall waren es rad- und fußwege und ein bisschen service (am Bühl bei Dörnberg). Aber in vielen Fällen führt eine solche Redundanz zu Problemen, die vermeidbar wären. Woher weißt du denn, welche anwendung welche tags traditionell benötigt? Wenn ich die Karte auf dem Navi benutze hab ich plötzlich mehrere Jugendherbergen mit Namen Stintfang. Da fehlt die datenaufbereitung... Und es müllt die Speicherkarte zu, mein Edge kann z.B. nicht mehr wie 2GB verwalten. Das ist hier sicher kein Argument das Taggingschema zu verändern. Genau. Wahrscheinlich würde im speziellen fall auch ein firmware-update helfen. -- Karl Eichwalder RD / Documentation SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Binäre .ovl-Datei nach GPX konvertiere n?
Stefan Leupers stefan.leup...@googlemail.com wrote: Leider können alle bisher gefundenen freien Tools oder auch MapSource das nicht lesen bzw. konvertieren. :-( top2gps Das erzeugt ein Format, das gpsbabel verarbeiten kann. Quellcode kann ich Dir schicken. Downloadlink im Netz ist anscheinend kaputt. Sven -- All bugs added by David S. Miller da...@redhat.com Linux Kernel boot message from /usr/src/linux/net/8021q/vlan.c /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Erdrutsch in Nachterstedt
Michael Bemmerl schrieb: Ich hab' nicht nachgefragt. Hab gerade eine Mail hingeschickt. Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Binäre .ovl-Datei nach GPX konvertie ren?
Hi Sven! Am 4. August 2009 09:43 schrieb Sven Geggus li...@fuchsschwanzdomain.de: Leider können alle bisher gefundenen freien Tools oder auch MapSource das nicht lesen bzw. konvertieren. :-( top2gps Das erzeugt ein Format, das gpsbabel verarbeiten kann. Stimmt, das kann wohl auch das binäre Format. Quellcode kann ich Dir schicken. Downloadlink im Netz ist anscheinend kaputt. Yep und der kommt wohl auch nicht mehr wieder, denn: We're sorry to inform you that on July 6, 2009, CompuServe OurWorld was shut down permanently. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Unter http://home.wtal.de/noegs/tiptop.htm steht was von DOS-Programm. Lassen sich die Sourcen auch unter Linux kompilieren oder hast Du ein DOS-/Windows-Binary von top2gps? Vorerst wurde mir zwar netterweise schon von der Community geholfen, aber wäre natürlich schon hilfreich sowas in der Hinterhand zu haben für's nächste Mal. Vielleicht bekomme ich ja nochmal überarbeitete Versionen der .ovl. Also, bitte gerne mal schicken. Danke! Ciao. - Stefan - ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] WMS: Yahoo Sat Problem
Alles löschen, auch die Einstellungen. Dann alles neu laden und YAHOO aus dem Standard kopieren - nix hinzufügen. Mercator wählen. UTM Zone 33 klappt nicht überall in Dtl. und ist nicht für Yahoo geeignet. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] WMS: Yahoo Sat Problem
On Mon, 3 Aug 2009, Horst wrote: Ich versuche nun schon laengere Zeit das WMS Plugin zum Anzeigen der Yahoo Luftbilder zum Laufen zu bringen. Aber ich erhalte nur den Hinweis von Yahoo We are sorry the data you requested is unavailable.. Wenn ich in dem Menue des Plugin unter Info nachsehe, dann muss ich dort lesen: WMS-Ebene (Yahoo Sat) Automatisches Laden mit Zoom null. In dem Fenster von dem Java-Start wird fortwaehrend angemeckert, dass minZoomLvl shouldnt be less than 2! Setting to 2. In welcher Zoom-Stufe greifst Du denn auf Yahoo zu (also was zeigt den oben links die Zoom-Leiste zu dem Zeitpunkt an, wo Du das erste Mal Yahoo nutzt?) In welchem Bereich arbeitest Du? Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
