Re: [Talk-transit] Monorails
However DisneyLand monorail http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/22942763 does have oneway = yes , but again is a closed loop single way. -- Bill n1...@arrl.net bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [talk-ph] unsolicited map advert
and more tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl2 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl1 tourism:jun domingo 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl1 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl2 On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:32 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: found this while compiling node stats. amenity:1 hectare commercial prop. for sale jun domingo 09228829926 1 amenity:1.1 ha. commercial property for sale 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 amenity:2 storey building 213m2 for sale 1 amenity:2 storey building LA 210m2 for sale 09228829926 1 amenity:684m2 commercial lot for sale 09228829926 1 Can somebody text him? :) -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] unsolicited map advert
found him: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jundomingo07/edits On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:43 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: and more tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 2 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 tourism:jun domingo 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 2 On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:32 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: found this while compiling node stats. amenity:1 hectare commercial prop. for sale jun domingo 09228829926 1 amenity:1.1 ha. commercial property for sale 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 amenity:2 storey building 213m2 for sale 1 amenity:2 storey building LA 210m2 for sale 09228829926 1 amenity:684m2 commercial lot for sale 09228829926 1 Can somebody text him? :) -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] unsolicited map advert
Kaya pala familiar, this guy is the same one that added a lot of ads in google maps and google earth On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:47 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: found him: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jundomingo07/edits On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:43 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: and more tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl2 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl1 tourism:jun domingo 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl1 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl2 On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:32 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: found this while compiling node stats. amenity:1 hectare commercial prop. for sale jun domingo 09228829926 1 amenity:1.1 ha. commercial property for sale 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl1 amenity:2 storey building 213m2 for sale1 amenity:2 storey building LA 210m2 for sale 092288299261 amenity:684m2 commercial lot for sale 092288299261 Can somebody text him? :) -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] unsolicited map advert
I sent him a message via OSM messaging. Most of his edits are around Davao Area. Maybe you guys can help him set-up a webmap for his brokerage site. Similar to the openstreetmap.com.ph service. On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:39 AM, George Tujangtu...@gmail.com wrote: Kaya pala familiar, this guy is the same one that added a lot of ads in google maps and google earth On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:47 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: found him: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jundomingo07/edits On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:43 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: and more tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 2 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 tourism:jun domingo 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 tourism:jun domingo www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 2 On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:32 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: found this while compiling node stats. amenity:1 hectare commercial prop. for sale jun domingo 09228829926 1 amenity:1.1 ha. commercial property for sale 09228829926 www.adomingobrokerage.page.tl 1 amenity:2 storey building 213m2 for sale 1 amenity:2 storey building LA 210m2 for sale 09228829926 1 amenity:684m2 commercial lot for sale 09228829926 1 Can somebody text him? :) -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openstreetmap Foundation: the Belgian Chapter
Thank you first of all for the posted comments and references. I have picked up a fairly tiny existing bylaw as an example and adapted it slightly for our purpose. So it is drafting response time for those who are interested. I have not cross-checked the draft fully with the fgov documents, but I think http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Chapter is the starting point for the next round of email :) Check the goals, they are most important. Don't hesitate to work out the discussion off-list on the wiki of cours! Bye, Ivom On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, ivom wrote: Hi all, I have prepared a rudimentary vzw/asbl-stub on the wiki with the statutes of a so-called future Openstreetmap Belgian Chapter. Something that should happen some time, I thought. Check: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Chapter The basic idea here is to create a legal entity that is available locally to work with Belgian instances like government, press, commercial businesses, etc. Instead of going to the public, wast money, on a personal basis. So, this entity should represent the people involved in the OpenStreetMap movement in our region in a legal and practical way. I hope you can support this. The page refered to is in dutch right right now, just as a starting point to start to discuss (translation help to french is really appreciated). I am not 100% up to speed with MediaWiki mark-up, so this page also looks pretty horrible at the moment. I hope that it at least communicates some of the bare essentials however. I have ripped the basic structure from http://www.lokalenmap.be/VZW/statuten. Please rip the current page apart at will to increase readability and multi-language support :) To be clear, the page might probably need to be translated in French, to be comform with the Belgian low for vzw/asbl organisations, but I don't know precisely. Maybe, we even could write the whole thing in English and get that submitted, but I don't know if that is allowed. Besides the local representation it is of importance to note that the vzw+asbl should preferably be accepted as local representation of OpenStreetMap by the OpenstreetMap Foundation (OSMF). For this to happen we have to adhere to some rules of the OSMF. Those requirements are in the works howerver. I guess that setting up our own structure to match those requirement is a worthwhile excercise. Regarding these requirements, please read: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters#Why_Local_Chapters.3F Please voice your opinion. And help work out the statuten/(french translation please). The biggest hurdle at this time I think besides from the paperwork is, that according to the current Local_Chapters wiki page OSMF asks for 20 signed members. That means you and some 18 others, please regard me as a de facto volenteer, by posting this email :) Please note that I am not a Lawyer, and the text is in draft. The official document or documents (nl-fr) describing and launching the vzw/asbl, should preferably be proof-read by someone knowledgable in the field of the applicable law which applies in Belgium. And, even if you don't fancy becoming a member of the vzw/asbl, you could help here too, by involving yourself or somebody that knows about the vzw/asbl law in fine detail and help out that way. Bye, Ivom ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Martin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/2 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: 2009/9/2 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Revert should be possible from the main site everywhere changesets are listed : from the history tab on a bbox or the recent changes without bbox ([1]) or from an individual contributor ([2]) edits. A new élink revert could be added at the right side of every changeset line. One click might report succeed or conflict/failed, do it manually. +1 also already reverted to prevent the late commers from spending too much time manually finding out that there's nothing left from the bad changeset. Generalizing a bit: changesets could have a metrics of reversibility: 100%=no changed object was changed afterwards (trivial to revert), 95%=5% of objects were changed since the changeset was done (there will be some conflicts), 0%=all objects were changed (probably a very old changeset or a bad changeset, undone either manually by various users or by admins, or a small changeset where another translation of a city name was added afterwards...). It would be fairly trivial (but still consuming some resources) to keep this metric updated in the database by keeping the number of all objects within a changeset and a counter of changed objects that would be updated every time an object is changed (find changed object's last changeset and increase the counter there). This Persistance of objects (POO for short :)) could also be used (as one of the metrics) to determine how established the user is, if needed. The revert link/button should not be placed directly on lists, but should only be accessible after carefully inspecting the new, friendlier changeset diff (see below). As a possible watchdog, the system could send automatically a message to the author of the reverted changeset like User:XXX reverted your changeset 12345. +1, that's a good idea I would also find it very helpful to have renderings of the different states on the api-history-pages (of elements way/node), as well as for changesets (before/after), although this might not be possible in some cases (e.g. when the area is very big / a way very long). Yes, visualizing changesets (and generally all object history) could be better than it is now: highlighting new/deleted/changed tags (down to individual characters in keys and values and numeric difference for numbers, possibly even calculating the distance and direction of movement for latlon), with an aggregated summary of changes. Of course all this wouldn't say that a way or relation changed if one of it's node was moved...should it? Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
Making 10 changesets of more than 10 features each over a period of at least 2 weeks without attracting reverts or complaints should be sufficient I would have thought. That would mean that a newbie who gets on with it can be 'established' within 2 weeks. I think that was how long it took me to get rights to upload images to Wikipiedia. Some vandals will slip through, but that is fine - we can deal with them in the usual way. We'll have to build a simple, calculateble and provable explanation from that, that every newbee understands. Also we should create a error-text that the tool displays when the conditions are not (yet) matched. This text should not demoralize the avarage user and tell him how long it will take until he can use this tool and why he can't use it yet. Any copywriter out here? I think the main message is 'please don't wait for permission to develop this' and get going! I love you practical energy on this. I agree that a web-service would be better that a downloadable tool - I would be much more likely to use a web-service, but any tool is better than no tool. I can allay your doubts: I'm interested in this tool, too. Not so much from the user perspective but more from the programming. I'll start it as soon as I can. It would be very helpful if we got consensus about what it sould do and how it should be used. But pssst: Behind the scenes i just started working on the changeset parser :) What we need now is for people to just get on with it and make tools and try them cautiously on small test edits and then try them on bigger stuff so we are ready for the big nightmare vandalism that could well occur before anyone attempts it. Before we could start building these tools we should define their use clearly. That makes the development phase a whole lot shorter. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
maning sambale schrieb: Revert my own and only my own changeset. Okay.. and how about vandalists? Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] geolocation for mobile browsers
hi all I think that the navigator.geolocation is available in iPhone and Android CellPhones. Are there other mobile browsers with this javascript API? Bernhard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:11 PM, MPsingular...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/09/2009, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: I'm against voting. Voting is a way to take responsibility away from the individual. I think that in most cases we should strive to have individuals responsible for everything (just like with mapping - you don't suggest something which the community then votes upon, you just map). But this could lead to reverting as a extended form of vandalism (which is much more effective!) They you can use the tool again and just revert the revert. Currently, messing things up things is easy, even without any revert tool, reverting them (without asking someone with DB access to do the dirty job) is not so easy. Can I just point out that there are so special permissions, no special DB access, or any other special stuff used to do anything with reverting. There was a tool for API 0.5 (written by me) that required DB access which was used to revert changes made by users involved with copyright infringement. This tool has become completely redundant since API 0.6 as the information it was using (finding every edit of a user) has become easily and publicly accessible through the changeset API. Even that tool just resulted in an osc file uploaded by bulk_upload.pl. The only reason you need DB access now is if you're trying to find information on a user with non-public edits, but as there aren't any new ones of those I think that's a limited problem. As far as I know most of the tools used for reverting currently are also public -- the problem being, they're dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing, not at all user friendly, deliberately hard to use to make sure you do know what you're doing, and not remotely capable of dealing with conflicts. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: I'd like to do a Brainstorming about how a Revert-Tool could look like, that is more open to the Community, can be used without programming knowledge and is able to to reverts fast. I'm thinking of a process like this: - Identify the Changeset you'd like to be reverted. - Go to tool and throw in the Changeset-ID - tool downloads the Changeset and the current state of all members - tool shows you a list of all members of the Changeset - highlight conflicting changes (tag- or position-mismatch) - highlight conflicts that could be reverted automatically (e.g. in the malicious changeset highway=secondary was changed to highway=track and on the current node it's highway=secondary again, or the node/way added in the malicious changeset was deleted already) - propose actions on nodes/ways that must be edited by hand (like jsom does when connecting two ways with conflicting tags) - when all conflicts are resolved tool generates a voting-url - post this url to the appropriate mailing-list (global and local) and let the community vote for your revert-proposal - we'll need some kind of authentication here - when 100 (20?, 50?, 1000?) people said yes to your proposal, the tool applies your revert - if this produces further conflicts the author should be able to correct them (and only them!) without another vote. - there should be a history when who reverted what - each revert should have an explanation with a minimal length (e.g. 30 words) Assuming you're looking for a tool to actually do reverts, then I'd suggest a plugin to an editor -- most meaningful reverts are going to result in a conflict that has to be edited -- you might have to rebuild unconnected bits of the map by hand if you're reverting a delete and someone has added something new in the meantime. After that a revert is just another normal map edit, there's no need for voting or other such structures. There's no need for limiting access or anything else. If we have edit wars we deal with the people involved. The tools can help by adding changeset tags like reverted_changeset=12345 as well as the normal comment=xyz and created_by=xyz. This will serve to easily flag up reverts. Don't try to force a comment of a certain length -- reverting vandalism is fine -- if you want 30 words i'll just give you reverting vandalism blah blah blah blah. And I'd recommend not overcomplicating -- if you're intending to write this, start with the simplest thing that will possibly work, and add features as you go :-) Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Dave Stubbsosm.l...@randomjunk.co.uk wrote: As far as I know most of the tools used for reverting currently are also public -- the problem being, they're dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing, not at all user friendly, deliberately hard to use to make sure you do know what you're doing, and not remotely capable of dealing with conflicts. Dave That's where I disagree. We should stop considering 'revert' as 'dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing'. It is not more dangerous as any other edits, it's just a different way to select elements and modify them. The only difference is that you refere to a particular state of the dataset (changeset) which might be obsolete (in which case the 'easy revert' should be aborted) in the same way as when two contributors work in parallel in the same area. We cannot say in one side let the crowd create, modify or delete elements as easy as possible and in the other side make revert hard to use. I'm still in favour of having an easy revert as a first attempt on the main site and only provide more complexe tools into editors in case of conflicts. But you will have to explaine how you deal with the 145 changesets of RR8 if you have to enter manually each number in your editor. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Am I missing something, But it would help if the Reply-to header on all messages that go through the list(s) gets set to the list email, so that when we hit reply the message goes to the list by default. This is the way most of the other lists I'm on work, and its a bit annoying having to use Reply to all then remove everyone except the list. Also most people don't want the reply sent too them twice as if they are posting they are on the list, and hence should receive the answer twice. This might also help reduce the number of questions with out answers, when people have forgotten to put the answer on-list for everyone benefit. If someone want to reply off list then they can change but the default should be on-list. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] geolocation for mobile browsers
2009/9/3 bernhard b...@datenkueche.com: Are there other mobile browsers with this javascript API? BlackBerry had a javascript api long before apple ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Peter Childs wrote: Am I missing something, But it would help if the Reply-to header on all messages that go through the list(s) gets set to the list email, so that when we hit reply the message goes to the list by default. This is the way most of the other lists I'm on work, and its a bit annoying having to use Reply to all then remove everyone except the list. You are entering 'religious war' areas here Peter ;) This is one of the few lists I use that still follows the return to sender rules rather than return to list, so one has to remember 'Reply All'. And nowadays I then delete all the extra addresses just to be tidy! People will explain why the current way is 'right' and other lists are wrong, and to be honest both views ARE equally valid :( In an ideal world, the email client would actually take care of the matter and would provided each camp with their own preferred view of things - but then the programmers there are in one camp or the other ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Hi, Am I missing something, But it would help if the Reply-to header on all messages that go through the list(s) gets set to the list email, so that when we hit reply the message goes to the list by default. In short you missed http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html This is the way most of the other lists I'm on work, and its a bit annoying having to use Reply to all then remove everyone except the list. Just because it is a habit doesn't mean it's not a bad habit. Also most people don't want the reply sent too them twice as if they are posting they are on the list, and hence should receive the answer twice. How do you know? Did you ask them? I _want_ to get direct copies. In case people don't want to read mails twice they can tell the list don't send me a second copy or tell their mail reader deduplicate my mail please. This might also help reduce the number of questions with out answers, when people have forgotten to put the answer on-list for everyone benefit. You can't idiot-proof people... If someone want to reply off list then they can change but the default should be on-list. Right. Any sane mail client does that. Based on the list-header, without an annoying reply-to header which was never meant to do want you want it to do. So dear list-admins please leave the settings as they are. Thank you. Patrick Petschge Kilian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Pierenpier...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Dave Stubbsosm.l...@randomjunk.co.uk wrote: As far as I know most of the tools used for reverting currently are also public -- the problem being, they're dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing, not at all user friendly, deliberately hard to use to make sure you do know what you're doing, and not remotely capable of dealing with conflicts. Dave That's where I disagree. We should stop considering 'revert' as 'dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing'. It is not more dangerous as any other edits, it's just a different way to select elements and modify them. The only difference is that you refere to a particular state of the dataset (changeset) which might be obsolete (in which case the 'easy revert' should be aborted) in the same way as when two contributors work in parallel in the same area. We cannot say in one side let the crowd create, modify or delete elements as easy as possible and in the other side make revert hard to use. That's not what I meant at all. Reverting isn't dangerous, it's the tool that's dangerous. You can create a very big mess if you don't know what you're doing and you force it through. As many casual users of bulk uploading tools can testify -- it really is a good idea to know what you're doing occasionally. If the tools are easy to use and make it easy to spot you're about to do something really stupid then there's no problem. I'm all for easy revert tools, they just don't exist as yet. I'm still in favour of having an easy revert as a first attempt on the main site and only provide more complexe tools into editors in case of conflicts. When someone writes it I'm sure it'll be great. But you will have to explaine how you deal with the 145 changesets of RR8 if you have to enter manually each number in your editor. Manually typing numbers sounds like a crappy interface to me, did someone suggest it? Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On 3 Sep 2009, at 10:05, Pieren wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Dave Stubbsosm.l...@randomjunk.co.uk wrote: As far as I know most of the tools used for reverting currently are also public -- the problem being, they're dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing, not at all user friendly, deliberately hard to use to make sure you do know what you're doing, and not remotely capable of dealing with conflicts. Dave That's where I disagree. We should stop considering 'revert' as 'dangerous to use if you don't know what you're doing'. It is not more dangerous as any other edits, it's just a different way to select elements and modify them. The only difference is that you refere to a particular state of the dataset (changeset) which might be obsolete (in which case the 'easy revert' should be aborted) in the same way as when two contributors work in parallel in the same area. We cannot say in one side let the crowd create, modify or delete elements as easy as possible and in the other side make revert hard to use. I'm still in favour of having an easy revert as a first attempt on the main site and only provide more complexe tools into editors in case of conflicts. I agree that there should be a 'easy revert' for a single changeset. This might result in a 'clean' revert (where none of the features have been touched since), a partial success with a conflict report (where only some features could e reverted because they have already been deleted or whatever), or a total failure (possibly where the changeset has already been reverted). This is not of course a 'revert' in that the original changeset will still be in the history, its just that the data will be back to the original state. But you will have to explaine how you deal with the 145 changesets of RR8 if you have to enter manually each number in your editor. When it comes to reverting multiple changesets there will be a benefit to doing them all together possibly, or strictly in reverse order. Possibly this might need a different approach. If we can do it easily then great (one would normally select a single user and a date range to catch the relevant changesets). An absolute essential is that a revert shows up as a changeset with a description that includes the fact that it was a revert and what it was reverting and can itself be reverted. At some point we might need a speed tile redraw to get embarrassing stuff out of the tile stack quickly. Regards, Peter Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: People will explain why the current way is 'right' and other lists are wrong, and to be honest both views ARE equally valid :( When it comes to being inclusionary I think it's a valid argument to not require people to hit reply to all, many people new to mailing lists don't know any better and they are penalised as a result. In an ideal world, the email client would actually take care of the matter and would provided each camp with their own preferred view of things - but then the programmers there are in one camp or the other ... Yes, but the fact is most don't I couldn't even find a greasemonkey script to do it in firefox/gmail. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 Patrick Petschge o...@petschge.de: Right. Any sane mail client does that. Based on the list-header, without Virtually no mail client does this. Right, wrong or indifferent it's how things are and I highly doubt anyone new to mailing lists would have such a client. an annoying reply-to header which was never meant to do want you want it to do. Spam filters don't like getting mail from yourself in this manner, because it's a common tactic of spammers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Peter Miller wrote: Only 'established users' can upload images to Wikipedia and I would suggest that the revert option is only available to established OSM users. It would need to take many edits to get 'established' but it means that there are some controls on 'drive-by vandals' who register and then cause mischief. I guess one can loose one's 'established user' credentials by partaking in vandalism. I'd think that when we hit by vandalism in AU we would be talking on the local list and making a decision on reverting changes. I would think that a higher status mapper would be actually permitted to make the changes rather than anyone. LIz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] beginner's guide all in one page
Hi, I'm looking for an all in one page of the beginner's guide: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_Guide Good for printing or giving out to people without net connection. Is there any hidden in the wiki? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/9/3 Patrick Petschge o...@petschge.de: Right. Any sane mail client does that. Based on the list-header, without Virtually no mail client does this. Right, wrong or indifferent it's how things are and I highly doubt anyone new to mailing lists would have such a client. I know that at least KMail has this feature. If there's a list-id in the header it will offer you a 'Reply to all', 'Reply to author' and 'Reply to list' option and default to the latter. Given this, it works fine on all these OSM mailing lists. However, GMail doesn't which is frankly stupid and annoying. Especially since it default to replying to _just_ the author of the email and not the list at all. So, really, this is a problem with the email clients being stupid and the mailing list seems to be set up correctly. The email header's don't have a 'reply-to' field so it seems that GMail defaults to replying to the address in the 'From' field. Even when there's obviously List headers: Precedence: list List-Id: OpenStreetMap user discussion talk.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk, mailto:talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk List-Post: mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk, mailto:talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe (In fact it happened when sending this email that GMail defaulted to sending it to just John and I forgot to change it. This is my second try. This needs a bug report to GMail) Regards, Matt Williams http://milliams.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Patrick Petschge Kilian schrieb: Hi, Am I missing something, But it would help if the Reply-to header on all messages that go through the list(s) gets set to the list email, so that when we hit reply the message goes to the list by default. In short you missed http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Hi! Repeating this link again and again doesn't make it any more right or wrong than any other opinion. Wasn't it Stalin who said: You have to repeat a lie often enough to become the truth? ;-) Chip Rosenthal expressed what he expects - fine. It's obvious from the repeating mails on this topic, that a lot of others expect something else. This is the way most of the other lists I'm on work, and its a bit annoying having to use Reply to all then remove everyone except the list. Just because it is a habit doesn't mean it's not a bad habit. Right, but that also mean, your workflow (habit) doesn't mean it's not a bad habit. Maybe you're only got used to it ... I know both ways have their pros and cons, so telling other people they are doing something wrong (or bad) is just ... Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 Matt Williams li...@milliams.com: I know that at least KMail has this feature. If there's a list-id in the header it will offer you a 'Reply to all', 'Reply to author' and 'Reply to list' option and default to the latter. Given this, it works fine on all these OSM mailing lists. Most people don't use kmail, nor any other mail client that handles list replying properly. However, GMail doesn't which is frankly stupid and annoying. Especially since it default to replying to _just_ the author of the email and not the list at all. And no greasemonkey script either. And the greasemonkey scripts that do exist to do reply to all don't work anyway. So, really, this is a problem with the email clients being stupid and the mailing list seems to be set up correctly. The email header's We have to deal witht he reality of the situation, no commonly used mail client handles list headers properly, so it's pointless to argue this is a good reason to keep the status quo, in fact it's a good reason to set the reply to to the list since most mail clients don't handle it properly, and most new comers don't know they have to hit reply to all. And you sent this to me directly, was the intentional or because the email client didn't reply to the list? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Matt Williams wrote: 2009/9/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/9/3 Patrick Petschge o...@petschge.de: Right. Any sane mail client does that. Based on the list-header, without Virtually no mail client does this. Right, wrong or indifferent it's how things are and I highly doubt anyone new to mailing lists would have such a client. I know that at least KMail has this feature. If there's a list-id in the header it will offer you a 'Reply to all', 'Reply to author' and 'Reply to list' option and default to the latter. Given this, it works fine on all these OSM mailing lists. Sylpheed Claws can reply to list as well and Thunderbird has an add-on which adds the command [1]. Cheers Christoph [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/4455 However, GMail doesn't which is frankly stupid and annoying. Especially since it default to replying to _just_ the author of the email and not the list at all. So, really, this is a problem with the email clients being stupid and the mailing list seems to be set up correctly. The email header's don't have a 'reply-to' field so it seems that GMail defaults to replying to the address in the 'From' field. Even when there's obviously List headers: Precedence: list List-Id: OpenStreetMap user discussion talk.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk, mailto:talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk List-Post: mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk, mailto:talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe (In fact it happened when sending this email that GMail defaulted to sending it to just John and I forgot to change it. This is my second try. This needs a bug report to GMail) Regards, Matt Williams http://milliams.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Ulf Lamping wrote: Repeating this link again and again doesn't make it any more right or wrong than any other opinion. I've read it all before. I'm on kmail, I've set reply to list , but its getting harder with the newer kmails to find the setting I frankly disagree with the opinion that it is harmful to set reply to list It is actually harmful to those persons who are still having to use windows instead of nice clear understandable unix based system :-) to make them jump through all sorts of hoops just to reply to a mailing list instead of the author of the mail. That particular author http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html is just plain self-righteous about his superior Unix based system and just so way behind with email management and mailing list management. I've run my own mail server and provided mailing lists for some years and certainly didn't find the difficulties that that author did. Just line up this argument with the other important religious wars of the 20th century like vi vs emacs and please lets ask how many people would like the list reply to headers set. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: And you sent this to me directly, was the intentional or because the email client didn't reply to the list? No, it was because GMail defaulted to emailing just you and I forgot about it until it was too late. It's caught me out several times. I guess the other mailing lists I'm on 'munge' the reply-to header to make it work in GMail. I just can't wait for my internet to improve so I can go back to using IMAP in KMail. -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/2009 11:53, Christoph Boehme wrote: Sylpheed Claws can reply to list as well and how many people have ever heard of that, let alone use it! and Thunderbird has an add-on which adds the command [1]. which I tried and it doesn't always work. And in any case if you have to press a separate button from normal replying, it's no more use than having to remember to reply to all. The whole point is that you want to be able to set up reply so that for lists it replies the way you want, not how the listmaster thinks you ought to want. As others have said, no widely used mail client does this. Telling people to switch to mail clients that no one has heard of is not helpful. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 Matt Williams li...@milliams.com: 2009/9/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: And you sent this to me directly, was the intentional or because the email client didn't reply to the list? No, it was because GMail defaulted to emailing just you and I forgot about it until it was too late. It's caught me out several times. I guess the other mailing lists I'm on 'munge' the reply-to header to make it work in GMail. I just can't wait for my internet to improve so I can go back to using IMAP in KMail. Some of us care more about being practical and dealing with things the way that are. I hope the reply to changes, if for nothing else than to be inclusionary of new people so they don't have to learn to cope with the self righteousness of others. Can we get the reply to on this and the talk-au list and the dev list changed please. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
You could check the tool on the edits made over the previous two months by Liam123, some of which have still not been reverted for lack of a suitable tool to achieve it. Are you talking about http://openstreetmap.org/user/liam123 ? Are we sure that this is really vandalism? For now I won't commit anything to the api but just show the calls I would have made (dry run) and I'll test it with some of my own changes to avoid messing things up for others, but as time goes by it would be good to have some examples to do practical testing. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 11:53, Christoph Boehme wrote: Sylpheed Claws can reply to list as well and Thunderbird has an add-on which adds the command [1]. Thunderbird 3 has it built in. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
We have to deal witht he reality of the situation, no commonly used mail client handles list headers properly, so it's pointless to argue this is a good reason to keep the status quo, in fact it's a good reason to set the reply to to the list since most mail clients don't handle it properly, and most new comers don't know they have to hit reply to all. The current communications methods are very awkward, particularly when participating in more than one subject. The amount of time to create a new password and sign up is absurd compared to a more typical single sign-on web forum based setup. Some web forums allow email-based communications for those who need that. And for those modern kids, it allows RSS feeds, quickly adding new forum subject categories as needed, and rapid searching and archived thread following rather than relying on Google. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 12:28, John Smith wrote: I hope the reply to changes, if for nothing else than to be inclusionary of new people so they don't have to learn to cope with the self righteousness of others. Can we get the reply to on this and the talk-au list and the dev list changed please. Look people. This is, and has been for the 16 years that I have been reading email, a holy war issue (just like vi vs emacs etc) and whatever you do the other side will just complain. Frankly I long ago gave up caring - it's impossible to please everybody so there is no point in trying. Yes I could change it, but then in six months we'll have a flood of complaints from the other side of the argument so I really don't see the point. Just learn to live with both setups. I did long ago. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu: Yes I could change it, but then in six months we'll have a flood of complaints from the other side of the argument so I really don't see the point. Just learn to live with both setups. I did long ago. You can't exactly take the high road here, reply to headers get munged on other OSM lists, can we please have some consistency, either turn them all on or all off. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
I was only trying to sort out what I find to be an annoyance and a possible cause of why we get a lot of emails on this list without answers. I did not mean to start a holy war. Personally I think Email needs a complete and utter re-design from the ground up. Its not fit for the purpose it is now being used for, and forums are no better. But I will not go into that discussion here because its Off Topic and Silly, We have to cope with what we've got rather than try and reinvent the wheel. When I finally start a blog I will put a post on it about what I think we need to replace email. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
2009/9/3 Mike N. nice...@att.net: Some web forums allow email-based communications for those who need that. And for those modern kids, it allows RSS feeds, quickly adding new forum subject categories as needed, and rapid searching and archived thread following rather than relying on Google. We're not using a web based forums, in fact most people don't use the OSM web based forums, please stop making straw men arguments. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 12:49, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/3 Tom Hughest...@compton.nu: Yes I could change it, but then in six months we'll have a flood of complaints from the other side of the argument so I really don't see the point. Just learn to live with both setups. I did long ago. You can't exactly take the high road here, reply to headers get munged on other OSM lists, can we please have some consistency, either turn them all on or all off. Each list is managed by a different person, and the settings for the list are entirely up to them. I'm not actually the manager for any of the lists being talked about here but I do have the master password so can in theory change any list. I don't plan to however - I plan to let list owners decide. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: You could check the tool on the edits made over the previous two months by Liam123, some of which have still not been reverted for lack of a suitable tool to achieve it. Are you talking about http://openstreetmap.org/user/liam123 ? Are we sure that this is really vandalism? For now I won't commit anything to the api but just show the calls I would have made (dry run) and I'll test it with some of my own changes to avoid messing things up for others, but as time goes by it would be good to have some examples to do practical testing. You might want to investigate setting up some test scripts to import, edit and then revert data. But do any testing against a test database and not the real thing :-) Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 12:40, Mike N. wrote: The current communications methods are very awkward, particularly when participating in more than one subject. The amount of time to create a new password and sign up is absurd compared to a more typical single sign-on web forum based setup. That's trivial compared to the ongoing per-message cost of reading a forum vs a mailing list. That's why I read mailing lists and ignore web forums - they just take too much time to read. All of which is, of course, supremely irrelevant to the subject under discussion here. We have both mailing lists and forums so people can choose which to use. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/3 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: You might want to investigate setting up some test scripts to import, edit and then revert data. But do any testing against a test database and not the real thing :-) Hmm the tool I'm working on at the moment will work with tha API and without a local DB, so I'd need a test-api. Do we have such? http://api06.old-dev.openstreetmap.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On 03/09/09 13:32, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/3 Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de: You might want to investigate setting up some test scripts to import, edit and then revert data. But do any testing against a test database and not the real thing :-) Hmm the tool I'm working on at the moment will work with tha API and without a local DB, so I'd need a test-api. Do we have such? http://api06.old-dev.openstreetmap.org Er, no... What you want is: http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org (the dev name was redirecting to old-dev for a few days during the transition to the new server but that has now stopped). Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Making 10 changesets of more than 10 features each over a period of at least 2 weeks without attracting reverts or complaints should be sufficient I would have thought. That would mean that a newbie who gets on with it can be 'established' within 2 weeks. I think that was how long it took me to get rights to upload images to Wikipiedia. Some vandals will slip through, but that is fine - we can deal with them in the usual way. We'll have to build a simple, calculateble and provable explanation from that, that every newbee understands. Also we should create a error-text that the tool displays when the conditions are not (yet) matched. This text should not demoralize the avarage user and tell him how long it will take until he can use this tool and why he can't use it yet. Any copywriter out here? The revert button (or other UI decoration) should not appear for users that are not logged-in. Perhaps revert should be invisible for users that are not yet able to revert? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to read this list on the web (was: OSM Mailing List Reply To Header)
If you prefer web interfaces, you can participate in this list via http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap. That is what I am doing now. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Tom Hughes wrote: Look people. This is, and has been for the 16 years that I have been reading email, a holy war issue (just like vi vs emacs etc) and whatever you do the other side will just complain. Frankly I long ago gave up caring - it's impossible to please everybody so there is no point in trying. Yes I could change it, but then in six months we'll have a flood of complaints from the other side of the argument so I really don't see the point. Just learn to live with both setups. I did long ago. Tom if you want to vote no, could you say so? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
You might want to investigate setting up some test scripts to import, edit and then revert data. But do any testing against a test database and not the real thing :-) Hmm the tool I'm working on at the moment will work with tha API and without a local DB, so I'd need a test-api. Do we have such? I don't like do write-actions to the DB without beeing sure they are correct. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
Richard Weait schrieb: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Making 10 changesets of more than 10 features each over a period of at least 2 weeks without attracting reverts or complaints should be sufficient I would have thought. That would mean that a newbie who gets on with it can be 'established' within 2 weeks. I think that was how long it took me to get rights to upload images to Wikipiedia. Some vandals will slip through, but that is fine - we can deal with them in the usual way. We'll have to build a simple, calculateble and provable explanation from that, that every newbee understands. Also we should create a error-text that the tool displays when the conditions are not (yet) matched. This text should not demoralize the avarage user and tell him how long it will take until he can use this tool and why he can't use it yet. Any copywriter out here? The revert button (or other UI decoration) should not appear for users that are not logged-in. Perhaps revert should be invisible for users that are not yet able to revert? I'm talking about building an external tool without any integration into osm.org, as this is what i'm capable of. This tool can be visited by any user and any user may do OAuth-Sign-In with this tool. The tool can't tell if the user is allowed to revert until he has gone through this procedure, so it's got to present a notice to the user that just authenticated and is still not allowed to use the tool. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
On 3 Sep 2009, at 14:34, Peter Körner wrote: Richard Weait schrieb: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Peter Körnerosm- li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Making 10 changesets of more than 10 features each over a period of at least 2 weeks without attracting reverts or complaints should be sufficient I would have thought. That would mean that a newbie who gets on with it can be 'established' within 2 weeks. I think that was how long it took me to get rights to upload images to Wikipiedia. Some vandals will slip through, but that is fine - we can deal with them in the usual way. We'll have to build a simple, calculateble and provable explanation from that, that every newbee understands. Also we should create a error- text that the tool displays when the conditions are not (yet) matched. This text should not demoralize the avarage user and tell him how long it will take until he can use this tool and why he can't use it yet. Any copywriter out here? The revert button (or other UI decoration) should not appear for users that are not logged-in. Perhaps revert should be invisible for users that are not yet able to revert? I'm talking about building an external tool without any integration into osm.org, as this is what i'm capable of. This tool can be visited by any user and any user may do OAuth-Sign-In with this tool. The tool can't tell if the user is allowed to revert until he has gone through this procedure, so it's got to present a notice to the user that just authenticated and is still not allowed to use the tool. Ok, so I have just had an RSS alert that Liam123 is back editing again today after a delay of 3 weeks. His edits are random and far reaching, often in Essex and Kent but also in other places. His edit log ominously says he is 'still editing' [1] [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/liam123/edits Regards, Peter Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On 3 Sep 2009, at 14:04, Andy Allan wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Peter Millerpeter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: I agree that there should be a 'easy revert' for a single changeset. This might result in a 'clean' revert (where none of the features have been touched since), Just want to point out that there's more to life in OSM than particular features, and practically no changeset can be cleanly reverted. Two examples: Bad changeset #123: delete the node London. Was node 456 v10, now 456 v11 (deleted) (Intermediate changeset: add a node for London) Revert changeset #123: node 456 hasn't been touched since, so reinstate. Could you put these as validation 'use cases' onto the wiki so that a tool can be tested against them? It will be very useful to have all the delinquent cases available for consideration before work starts on the code. I guess that the tool should ideally be able to check for manual reinstatement of the same or similar features. Not what you wanted. Bad changeset #333: moved node #1234 (v2-v3) in way #4567 (v15 - not changed in this changeset) (Intermediate changeset: remove node #1234 from way #4567, but the node isn't itself deleted) Revert changset #333: node #1234 hasn't been touched since, move it back to where it started. Again, lets have this on the wiki please. We also need to consider how relations can interact in difficult ways with the data. Not what you wanted either. The version numbers only apply to the primitives, not the state of the system (which has both relationships between primitives and spatial relationships). This makes hands-off reverting very tricky. Sure, so possibly it should be 'hands on'. I am not getting into how it works or the solution at all, only that we need to get on with solving this interesting and tricky problem sooner rather than later. Regards, Peter Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
2009/9/3 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: I'm talking about building an external tool without any integration into osm.org, as this is what i'm capable of. This tool can be visited by any user and any user may do OAuth-Sign-In with this tool. The tool can't tell if the user is allowed to revert until he has gone through this procedure, so it's got to present a notice to the user that just authenticated and is still not allowed to use the tool. Will you be able to revert a reverted changeset? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Lized...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Peter Körner wrote: maning sambale schrieb: Revert my own and only my own changeset. Okay.. and how about vandalists? Peter i though maning meant this was a separate option Yes, let's do this first and then work from there. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Also most people don't want the reply sent too them twice as if they are posting they are on the list, and hence should receive the answer twice. How do you know? Did you ask them? I _want_ to get direct copies. In case people don't want to read mails twice they can tell the list don't send me a second copy or tell their mail reader deduplicate my mail please. Well, Thunderbird, which I use as mail client can't deduplicate the mail. Especially if the mail that went through list have few extra headers and a footer added, so these mails are no longer the same. So I end up with two almost identical mails in my inbox. As for replying, there is usually no button reply to list in mail clients I use (not in thunderbird or in gmail), so whether I press reply or reply to all, I have to manually edit To: so there would be only list. If someone want to reply off list then they can change but the default should be on-list. Right. Any sane mail client does that. Based on the list-header, without an annoying reply-to header which was never meant to do want you want it to do. Neither thunderbird or gmail does that. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
Peter Miller wrote: Ok, so I have just had an RSS alert that Liam123 is back editing again today after a delay of 3 weeks. Probably because kids are back at school now. Look at his first changeset ever - it's next to his school. Of course, it would be an interesting experiment to e-mail the headteacher and let him know that his computer equipment is probably being used to vandalise an international collaborative project. His edit log ominously says he is 'still editing' [1] That's nothing particularly ominous - it just means the changeset hasn't been expressly closed. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Brainstorming%3A-Simple-Revert-Tools-tp25262655p25276793.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
maning sambale schrieb: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Lized...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Peter Körner wrote: maning sambale schrieb: Revert my own and only my own changeset. Okay.. and how about vandalists? Peter i though maning meant this was a separate option Yes, let's do this first and then work from there. First would be to build a tool that is able to revert changesets. Who is able to revert which changeset comes after that. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/4 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: First would be to build a tool that is able to revert changesets. Who is able to revert which changeset comes after that. Maybe not just who, but where they can revert a change set as well. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
2009/9/4 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Will you be able to revert a reverted changeset? A reversion is just a new changeset, so basicaly: yes, i think. We could artificialy prevent a circle like this: - A reverts Bs changeset 1 - results in changeset 2 - B reverts As changeset 2 - results in changeset 3 - A reverts Bs changeset 3 - results in changeset 4 - B reverts As changeset 4 - results in changeset 5 - the tool prevents A from reverting changeset 5 - others (including A) may still revert 5 - A and B may revert other changesets from each other I wasn't thinking of that case so much as someone being a little over zealous and reverting a changeset by accident and needing to revert their change. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
John Smith schrieb: 2009/9/3 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: I'm talking about building an external tool without any integration into osm.org, as this is what i'm capable of. This tool can be visited by any user and any user may do OAuth-Sign-In with this tool. The tool can't tell if the user is allowed to revert until he has gone through this procedure, so it's got to present a notice to the user that just authenticated and is still not allowed to use the tool. Will you be able to revert a reverted changeset? A reversion is just a new changeset, so basicaly: yes, i think. We could artificialy prevent a circle like this: - A reverts Bs changeset 1 - results in changeset 2 - B reverts As changeset 2 - results in changeset 3 - A reverts Bs changeset 3 - results in changeset 4 - B reverts As changeset 4 - results in changeset 5 - the tool prevents A from reverting changeset 5 - others (including A) may still revert 5 - A and B may revert other changesets from each other Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
I wasn't thinking of that case so much as someone being a little over zealous and reverting a changeset by accident and needing to revert their change. This will of course be possible Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/4 Dave Stubbs osm.l...@randomjunk.co.uk: At the end of the day it's just another editor, you'll need an OSM account to edit with it. Save the rest till it matters. I usually find it immensely useful to talk out loud about what I'm coding and it usually solves some problem I was stuck on just by talking someone else through it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Lized...@billiau.net wrote: On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Peter Miller wrote: Only 'established users' can upload images to Wikipedia and I would suggest that the revert option is only available to established OSM users. It would need to take many edits to get 'established' but it means that there are some controls on 'drive-by vandals' who register and then cause mischief. I guess one can loose one's 'established user' credentials by partaking in vandalism. I'd think that when we hit by vandalism in AU we would be talking on the local list and making a decision on reverting changes. I would think that a higher status mapper would be actually permitted to make the changes rather than anyone. Complex access metrics for an as yet non-existent tool, that can actually do less damage than most existing editors, seems just a little like either a) overkill b) a complete waste of time c) fundamentally missing the point At the end of the day it's just another editor, you'll need an OSM account to edit with it. Save the rest till it matters. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
John Smith wrote: I usually find it immensely useful to talk out loud about what I'm coding and it usually solves some problem I was stuck on just by talking someone else through it. That's lovely, but it would be less selfish if you could refrain from filling up the rest of our mailboxes' with it, given that you've been responsible for over 10% of postings to talk@ since August 1st. Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Brainstorming%3A-Simple-Revert-Tools-tp25262655p25277840.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/4 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: That's lovely, but it would be less selfish if you could refrain from filling up the rest of our mailboxes' with it, given that you've been responsible for over 10% of postings to talk@ since August 1st. I'm glad you care so much you took the time to keep stats, next time I need some info I know exactly who to ask! :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Patrick Petschge Kilian wrote: Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header Hi, Am I missing something, But it would help if the Reply-to header on all messages that go through the list(s) gets set to the list email, so that when we hit reply the message goes to the list by default. In short you missed http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html This is the way most of the other lists I'm on work, and its a bit annoying having to use Reply to all then remove everyone except the list. Just because it is a habit doesn't mean it's not a bad habit. I second this - i am getting multiple thousand mails/day and people trying to have an argument with me should CC me directly otherwise the argument might take weeks to months ... I consider Reply-To: with a list adress as broken. I am in a comfortable situation to fix this at least for my inbox ... :0 fhc * ^List-Id: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de.openstreetmap.org | formail -R Reply-To X-No-Reply-To Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Inconsistency in way history?
This page indicates that the last way says the last editor was Liam123 on 2 June 2009 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23180071 However, if one clicks the 'edit' button it goes to Potlatch and if one then clicks 'h' for history then it says the last editor is Mr Mark on 23 July 2009. Fyi, Liam123 changed the this way from highway=unclassified to highway=secondary and added the tag ref=B1008 on 2 June 2009 which both appear to be incorrect. Any explanations? something to do with ways and nodes possibly. Regards, Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
On 3 Sep 2009, at 07:04, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Peter Miller wrote: Ok, so I have just had an RSS alert that Liam123 is back editing again today after a delay of 3 weeks. Probably because kids are back at school now. Look at his first changeset ever - it's next to his school. Of course, it would be an interesting experiment to e-mail the headteacher and let him know that his computer equipment is probably being used to vandalise an international collaborative project. Y'know I abused school computer equipment for most of my time in schools and universities, far better if someone can figure out how to help the kid out to the light side of The Force than to stamp on a little bit of creativity. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
I guess it not a problem with the mailman mailing list manager. It should have a option to set whether you want that header or not. This would save many of the arguments. I prefer the reply to mailing list. I keep replying to the last person in threads. Often I don't notice until the next day. Its because I am on 3 other high traffic mailing lists that use reply to mailing list headers. btw the next big thing to beat e-mail is Google Wave, I am not sure about it yet but it might take off. Jack Stringer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools - work for copywriters!
On 3 Sep 2009, at 21:18, SteveC wrote: On 3 Sep 2009, at 07:04, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Peter Miller wrote: Ok, so I have just had an RSS alert that Liam123 is back editing again today after a delay of 3 weeks. Probably because kids are back at school now. Look at his first changeset ever - it's next to his school. Of course, it would be an interesting experiment to e-mail the headteacher and let him know that his computer equipment is probably being used to vandalise an international collaborative project. Y'know I abused school computer equipment for most of my time in schools and universities, far better if someone can figure out how to help the kid out to the light side of The Force than to stamp on a little bit of creativity. Liam123 is doing us a huge favour and I hope he continues to do what he has been doing for some time to come. We does some, but not too much damage every now and again and then gives us some time to improve our response. He has not done so much damage that it gets us negative publicity, but he is doing enough to force us to build an effective response which is just what we need at this point, and it is much better for us to be tested by some innocent graffiti and than anything more malicious. I am sure that in time he will become a more conventionally useful and upstanding member of society (as has our illustrious chairman;) ) however for now I suggest we allow him to carry on with his games while we get set up so we can respond in minutes to new interventions from him and others also also get some good tools to dig out all the previous mischief that he has left for us in the database (such as the B1008 which I spotted earlier today which he 'adjusted' back in June). When we come to transfer to the new license we will of course need to be able to remove his and other contributions if we are not able to get an agreement to transfer to the new license, which might actually be another use for the same tools. Regards, Peter Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal
Frederik Ramm wrote: ... But I really need people familiar with the region who tell me that they are reasonably sure that the edits are bogus. If it helps, I've just looked at a selection of 20 of the 60 ways edited in changeset 2308178 by RR8. This covers north Nottinghamshire in England. One edit looks possibly correct (a road number has been continued from an adjacent stretch of road; it's possible that that that could be legitimate, the other 19 edits do not look likely to be valid. I've added an entry to the table in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GB_revert_request_log as that's been suggested as a way of keeping track of requests. I've looked at a smaller number of ways in other changesets by RR8 in the surrounding area (Derby / Notts / Sheffield). All look similarly suspect. Just because someone made bogus edits in Iceland doesn't automatically mean he's messing up Ireland as well etc. It certainly looks like he/she/it is messing up Northern England. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal
On 3 Sep 2009, at 22:17, Someoneelse wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: ... But I really need people familiar with the region who tell me that they are reasonably sure that the edits are bogus. If it helps, I've just looked at a selection of 20 of the 60 ways edited in changeset 2308178 by RR8. This covers north Nottinghamshire in England. One edit looks possibly correct (a road number has been continued from an adjacent stretch of road; it's possible that that that could be legitimate, the other 19 edits do not look likely to be valid I've added an entry to the table in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GB_revert_request_log as that's been suggested as a way of keeping track of requests. I've looked at a smaller number of ways in other changesets by RR8 in the surrounding area (Derby / Notts / Sheffield). All look similarly suspect. Just because someone made bogus edits in Iceland doesn't automatically mean he's messing up Ireland as well etc. It certainly looks like he/she/it is messing up Northern England. I think we need to agree on some guidance for response to possible vandals and what level of checking should be performed prior to reversion. Personally I would suggest:- 1) We should expect that all contributors should at all time attempt to make good, accurate and well researched changes 2) We need to ensure that every contributor is on-balance making the dataset better, not worse. If the contribution is in doubt we owe it to other contributors to investigate and respond. 3) We should be aware that people make mistakes, need time to learn and newbies often need and will respond to support 4) We can request, but not require contributors to add a comments to their changesets and to have created a useful personal page with some details about their interest and knowledge. Doing this makes reversion less likely and make it more likely that the person will be helped if needed. 5) In the event that someone seems to be doing strange edits one should initially assume 'good faith' but should watch carefully and discuss with others if appropriate. 6) If a significant number of edits to ways can be definitively proved to be malicious, obscene, libelous or it is considered that they might bring the project into disrepute then the related change-sets can be reverted immediately without discussion and without 100% checking of the rest of the change-set. 7) If the edits are dubious but it can't be proved to be incorrect then one should contact the person and ask for some additional information. If one don't get a reasonable response (or gets no response) and the dubious edits continue and there are not a good number of balancing clearly positive contributions then one should look to prove at least one bad edit and may then come to the decision in discussion with others that it is appropriate to revert the change- set in question and potentially all changesets by that person. 8) Once someone has been identified as a problematic contributor then one only needs to perform a brief of inspection of subsequent edits before reversion future changesets. Liam123 is in this category now. 9) If the problem continues (Liam123 is actually probably in this category) then one puts then on 'virtual ban' where their edits get reverted with no inspection of the merit of the changes unless the person contacts a sys-admin and says they have grown-up and want another chance. 10) I someone performs bad edits in any part of the world then they can expect to be a global response because it seems very unlikely that someone would mess with Ireland and do good work in Iceland and I am not sure I would want to work out what was going on in their head - I would prefer to protect the good work of others from mischief that allow good work to be messed on the off-chance that some good edits are also made in amongst the nonsense. 11) People who revert other people's work should expect to be able to demonstrate that the reversion was well reasoned and proportionate to the issue. Can we work on this a little on the list and if there is agreement copy to resulting text to the wiki? Regards, Peter Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal
2009/9/3 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: 2) We need to ensure that every contributor is on-balance making the dataset better, not worse. If the contribution is in doubt we owe it to other contributors to investigate and respond. This is a situation where the contributions are in doubt, at least in some areas. I think we could borrow some of the conventions from software projects, where the current state is considered to be correct until proven incorrect. We already have commit messages like in software repositories so maybe it's a good idea to make the commit messages obligatory too -- obligatory in the sense that any changeset without a good description can be reverted for just that reason by other people. In a software project a commit message needs to: * describe what the change does, * why it's needed (rather than This changes the way we start up), * how it does it and why this is the right way to do it (rather than This fixes a segfault). Any commit that doesn't have a message containing these three elements is liable to revert and in most cases is reverted until the submitter comes up with a better description. The revert message obviously needs to state what is wrong with the change or the message, sometime by just referencing some rule number (even in wikipedia you have revert messages like Violates F.O.O.B.A.R.X.Y.Z. section #4). For OSM the rules would be much more relaxed than in software projects. Since I'm used to writing commit messages I wouldn't mind such a change but maybe I'm crazy and it's way to much bother for normal mappers. Is it? ... 8) Once someone has been identified as a problematic contributor then one only needs to perform a brief of inspection of subsequent edits before reversion future changesets. Liam123 is in this category now. 9) If the problem continues (Liam123 is actually probably in this category) then one puts then on 'virtual ban' where their edits get reverted with no inspection of the merit of the changes unless the person contacts a sys-admin and says they have grown-up and want another chance. Couldn't we just lock such accounts until the person contacts the admin / privileged person, and not have the objects in the database spammed with bogus history? Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] revert.pl
At the risk of trifling with things that I do not fully understand[1], I've been using revert.pl to revert a changeset of my own. I blew it and imported a file with bad things[2] and want to undo the mess. I have revert.pl fresh from svn today, and it runs, but eventually stops with node 481692883 cannot be retrieved: 500 Internal Server Error I've run it four times and it gets a few thousand nodes further each time. Any suggestions for successfully reverting this large changeset? Best regards, Richard [1] and Frederik warned us not to do that [2] spaces in keys. Yuck. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] revert.pl
2009/9/4 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: At the risk of trifling with things that I do not fully understand[1], I've been using revert.pl to revert a changeset of my own. I blew it and imported a file with bad things[2] and want to undo the mess. I have revert.pl fresh from svn today, and it runs, but eventually stops with node 481692883 cannot be retrieved: 500 Internal Server Error I've run it four times and it gets a few thousand nodes further each time. Any suggestions for successfully reverting this large changeset? Since it's all creations in this changeset, you can simply download the changeset from http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/2354740/download , replace the create tag with delete and upload using http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/upload.py It'll probably fail with error 500 because there are so many elements and the server seems unstable, so you can split the changeset using http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/split.py and upload in reverse order, it should still be much quicker than using the revert tool. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 02:08:51PM -0500, Joseph Booker wrote: Sylpheed Claws can reply to list as well and how many people have ever heard of that, let alone use it! Probably very few, since it is called Claws Mail now :) No, you get double the chance of having heard of it! This one[1], and this one[2]. [1]: http://www.claws-mail.org/ [2]: http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/ Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to read this list on the web (was: OSM Mailing List Reply To Header)
On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 12:48:32PM +, Ed Avis wrote: If you prefer web interfaces, you can participate in this list via http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap. That is what I am doing now. I’ll add Nabble[1] into the pot. [1]: http://www.nabble.com/OpenStreetMap-f1218.html Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] revert.pl
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:02 PM, andrzej zaborowskibalr...@gmail.com wrote: It'll probably fail with error 500 because there are so many elements and the server seems unstable, so you can split the changeset using http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/split.py and upload in reverse order, it should still be much quicker than using the revert tool. Thank you, I'll try that now. Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Yathusan vandalism
Found some more: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2365004 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2364986 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2364907 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2364884 Not 100% sure they are vandalism since they are in B.C., but I strongly suspect so. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yathusan vandalism
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Andrew MacKinnonandrew...@gmail.com wrote: Found some more: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2365004 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2364986 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2364907 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2364884 Not 100% sure they are vandalism since they are in B.C., but I strongly suspect so. I've sent a second email through the web site. No response to the email I sent on Aug 22, after the previous bout of edits. Some edits look like the scribbling of an uninformed and frustrated new editor who doesn't realize that edits are live. Others look misguided at best. Thank you for keeping an eye on this one Andrew. Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] revert.pl
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Weaitrich...@weait.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:02 PM, andrzej zaborowskibalr...@gmail.com wrote: It'll probably fail with error 500 because there are so many elements and the server seems unstable, so you can split the changeset using http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/split.py and upload in reverse order, it should still be much quicker than using the revert tool. split.py expected changesets of version 0.3, but the API is providing version 0.6. Split worked after I changed the version it expected. upload.py gave authentication errors. Should I have escaped the @ in my email address? I was able to get revert.py to work on a small changeset by a scribbler. Very nice. Thank you both, Andrzej and Frederik. Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] revert.pl
2009/9/4 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Weaitrich...@weait.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:02 PM, andrzej zaborowskibalr...@gmail.com wrote: It'll probably fail with error 500 because there are so many elements and the server seems unstable, so you can split the changeset using http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/split.py and upload in reverse order, it should still be much quicker than using the revert tool. split.py expected changesets of version 0.3, but the API is providing version 0.6. Split worked after I changed the version it expected. Ahh yes, that's because the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OsmChange page never mentions what the version is supposed to be and all examples use 0.3 on that page (is it possible that they come from the time when 0.3 was the API version?). I once made upload.py accept both 0.3 and 0.6 and forgot to do the same to split.py but now changed it too. upload.py gave authentication errors. Should I have escaped the @ in my email address? Honestly I don't know, I only ever login using the username alone (in your case that would be rw__?), I'll try out email authentication next time I'll be uploading something. For now added a comment at the top of the file. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-talk] How to tag giant acorn?
Looks like we still have a quite a few to map, http://wikitravel.org/en/Big_things_in_Australia A rough count gave 134! This list maybe incomplete, I seem to remember a big potato in Victoria. On Thursday 03 Sep 2009 06:58:40 John Smith wrote: I should have also included ID numbers: 260591287 Big Brook Dam 38897981 The Big Crocodile 360127819 Big Rocking Horse 252048067 The Big Orange 318538346 Big Tree 360634495 Big Tree 318321519 The Big Merino 434858614 Big Bike 434856044 Big Mobile Phone 325658111 The Big Pineapple 25976251 Big Banana 443522427 Big Kauri Tree 472460335 The Big Shell ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-talk] How to tag giant acorn?
2009/9/3 Evan Sebire e...@sebire.org: Looks like we still have a quite a few to map, http://wikitravel.org/en/Big_things_in_Australia A rough count gave 134! This list maybe incomplete, I seem to remember a big potato in Victoria. This is why I gave ID numbers, you could then link from a list directly to OSM maps. eg, Big Banana http://www.openstreetmap.org/?node=25976251 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/3 Liz ed...@billiau.net: I'd think that when we hit by vandalism in AU we would be talking on the local list and making a decision on reverting changes. I would think that a higher status mapper would be actually permitted to make the changes rather than anyone. I've actually been pondering about this, I think we need to be a lot more pro-active about vandalism than some seem to be taking it on the main talk list, where it's someone else's problem. Perhaps we should go so far as to flesh out a policy on what should be done if people notice wide spread vandalism. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/3 Liz ed...@billiau.net: I'd think that when we hit by vandalism in AU we would be talking on the local list and making a decision on reverting changes. I would think that a higher status mapper would be actually permitted to make the changes rather than anyone. I've actually been pondering about this, I think we need to be a lot more pro-active about vandalism than some seem to be taking it on the main talk list, where it's someone else's problem. Perhaps we should go so far as to flesh out a policy on what should be done if people notice wide spread vandalism. makes sense to sort out a policy now currently if i see something which may be a problem i identify the mapper, message them through OSM and hopefully have a discussion i try to be open in this communication, not starting with accusations etc because i want to open communication not start a war. (recipients of my messages might see this differently ;-) ) welcome them to OSM, suggest they join the mailing list, and say that i've noticed their edits in X and finally get around to what i really want to say and the other thing is not to do it when hot under the collar after seeing your work changed, but wait a day. -- He is now rising from affluence to poverty. -- Mark Twain ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/3 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: makes sense to sort out a policy now currently if i see something which may be a problem i identify the mapper, message them through OSM and hopefully have a discussion i try to be open in this communication, not starting with accusations etc because i want to open communication not start a war. (recipients of my messages might see this differently ;-) ) welcome them to OSM, suggest they join the mailing list, and say that i've noticed their edits in X and finally get around to what i really want to say and the other thing is not to do it when hot under the collar after seeing your work changed, but wait a day. That's the general case of mistakes, not intentional vandalism, and it's vandalism that started this thread on the talk list. Assume they don't reply, what then? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] City Council mapping data import
I have a couple of city councils who have offered to provide data for import into OSM. Can somebody put their hand up for a phone call to bring me up to speed on what the best approach is? Regards, mikesm...@dominoconsultant.org For information about me please see my LinkedIn profile at http://www.linkedin.com/in/dominoconsultant or check out my blog at http://dominoconsultant.org I use free Ubuntu Linux with free Open Office instead of Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, get your free copy of Ubuntu from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu and free Open Office from http://www.openoffice.org/ A directory of other quality free Open Source alternatives to commercial software can be found at http://www.osalt.com/ and a copy of the OpenDisc DVD full of software can be downloaded from http://www.theopendisc.com/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] City Council mapping data import
2009/9/3 Mike Smith mikesm...@dominoconsultant.org: I have a couple of city councils who have offered to provide data for import into OSM. Can somebody put their hand up for a phone call to bring me up to speed on what the best approach is? What do you need to know exactly? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
2009/9/3 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, John Smith wrote: That's the general case of mistakes, not intentional vandalism, and it's vandalism that started this thread on the talk list. Assume they don't reply, what then? how long is don't reply is the next question then i'd suggest notify to talk-au and explain what has happened i would think that any decisions to revert should be notified in a public place like the list I'm not disagreeing, I'm just trying to flesh out a policy on what to do :) After it's decided on the list it's vandalism, then what? :) We need these things in place ahead of time so we can act quickly to make reverting as successful as possible. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, John Smith wrote: I'm not disagreeing, I'm just trying to flesh out a policy on what to do :) i reckon that the two noisiest persons on this list should give others a chance next :-) -- BOFH excuse #142: new guy cross-connected phone lines with ac power bus. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Draft association rules + LC page
2009/9/3 James Livingston doc...@mac.com: * Which Model Rules are these based on? It may have changed, but a while ago there were subtle differences in Model Rules between states. Since the Wikimedia Australian Chapter is based in Vic I assume they are Victorian Model Rules. * 21.3b says there are two ordinary committee members but 23.1 says there are three Hmm I must have missed that. * What exactly does commercial mapping entity mean for the purposes of 4? It's very clear if something has not for profit status based on their governing rules. * Not that it would be like likely, but if 8.7 is invoked, how does the secret ballot in 8.8d work with proxy votes allowed by 8.9 and telecommunication/electronic involvement? That's probably a pointless rule given people don't live in a similar geographical region. * Special Resolution is mentioned several times but not defined, which I assume means it is defined in the various state acts and is for things like changing the association's constitution/articles/rules/ whatever. If one is proposed the General Meeting can't be held by telecommunication/electronic means, what do we expect to happen in this situation? This needs to be fixed, all meetings should be capable of being held electronically. With respect to the membership fees from your other email, if normal membership is $20 do we need a concession rate? I'm not saying we shouldn't have one, just that the $10 difference would be a whole lot of money, even for poor students, and that it avoids us then having to figure out who exactly is eligible. $10 is for pensioners, and students for that matter, it's a couple of pizzas/meals :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Meekatharra, WA
Well since I last spoke to the teacher in WA she's been busy with her kids and potlatch... http://maps.bigtincan.com/?zoom=17lat=-26.593608013851lon=118.49711522154 I forget how old the kids are, but they're primary school age, and the teacher isn't exactly a techy so I think they've done pretty well. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] City Council mapping data import
Hi John (et. al.), So the offer has been made by a couple of geographic specialists in a couple of city councils for them to provide an initial data load from their GIS for use by OSM. The question is what do we want (in general); what format should it be in; how is an import facilitated (who can do it)? I'm happy to build up my skills in this area because I'm an experienced IT guy I think I may be able to add some value to the process and end up being a specialist contact point for people such as this to be put in contact with. So, initially I'm after a bit of hand-holding so I don't appear to be an arrogant noob. Regards, mikesm...@dominoconsultant.org For information about me please see my LinkedIn profile at http://www.linkedin.com/in/dominoconsultant or check out my blog at http://dominoconsultant.org I use free Ubuntu Linux with free Open Office instead of Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, get your free copy of Ubuntu from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu and free Open Office from http://www.openoffice.org/ A directory of other quality free Open Source alternatives to commercial software can be found at http://www.osalt.com/ and a copy of the OpenDisc DVD full of software can be downloaded from http://www.theopendisc.com/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
I liked the rules Paul Miller proposed on the talk list. I don't understand what it would take to implement a revert option, but expect it would be messy, especially if you needed to revert a revert. I guess it gets worse when you need to roll back older changes with other people since changed (eg bad user mis-aligned a freeway then a good user corrected the highway reference tag). I like the idea of simply putting an account into a locked mode so that they still exist in OSMland and assuming the changes were innocent/naive then they can be re-instated once they've had some hand holding. It would be nice if josm/potlatch/osmweb had an option to alert the user when they login that their work is under peer review they MUST contact before they can continue doing work, ie, be friendly and splash them a warning message given some people ignore their emails. I think it'll take some time refining the framework as incidents occur. Jeff. From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com To: Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Thursday, 3 September, 2009 8:23:46 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools 2009/9/3 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: makes sense to sort out a policy now currently if i see something which may be a problem i identify the mapper, message them through OSM and hopefully have a discussion i try to be open in this communication, not starting with accusations etc because i want to open communication not start a war. (recipients of my messages might see this differently ;-) ) welcome them to OSM, suggest they join the mailing list, and say that i've noticed their edits in X and finally get around to what i really want to say and the other thing is not to do it when hot under the collar after seeing your work changed, but wait a day. That's the general case of mistakes, not intentional vandalism, and it's vandalism that started this thread on the talk list. Assume they don't reply, what then? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] City Council mapping data import
It might be worth looking at how the TIGER data was merged in the 'states... And not doing it that way. I'd personally prefer if if this kind of data wasn't even to be merged straight away. If it were made available in a format JOSM can overlay, actual humans could then go over it in the same way we currently do with Yahoo! imagery. Benefits: * Crowdsource the import task. * Humans have a better idea as to how the data should be portrayed in OSM. * In already populated areas, humans are better at working out what should be merged. * It's better to build the map from the bottom up, rather than the top down. (By this I mean, it's better to import the data slowly and surely, rather than using import tools and having to go through and fix it all.) Drawbacks: * Takes time, not that we don't have it. * Takes more effort, but with a greater result. Just a thought. :) Ash. On Fri, 2009-09-04 at 11:09 +1000, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/4 Mike Smith mikesm...@dominoconsultant.org: So the offer has been made by a couple of geographic specialists in a couple of city councils for them to provide an initial data load from their GIS for use by OSM. The question is what do we want (in general); what format should it be in; how is an import facilitated (who can do it)? What format, osm format would be great! :) But seriously, shape files seem to be the next useful and can be converted to OSM, it really depends what format they can give the data to us is and if we can convert that to something more useful. The next question is going to be a little more difficult if the areas you are importing already have data. People from other countries have and are dealing with this so we'd be able to get help. The main thing to worry about is licensing, is the data being released under favourable terms, and also is the data allowed to be released under those terms. That is, was the data derived from another data set with more restrictions. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Ashley Kyd • Web Software Development in Brisbane, Australia. • Phone (07) 3129 2332, or visit http://kyd.com.au/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Missing post code boundaries?
2661 is Kapooka a military PO, and probably not an area 2661 is an area (Kapooka army base). Boundary for the post code area is the same as the locality or whatever you want to call it of Kapooka. It is different from the Census postcode boundary however. 2769 is somewhere coastal again 2769 is The Ponds, bounded by Schoefields 2762, Rouse Hill 2155, 2768, 2763 (same as the suburb boundary). 2899 looks like its Norfolk Island Yes it is, and so is Nepean Island directly to the south ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] City Council mapping data import
2009/9/4 Ashley Kyd a...@kyd.com.au: It might be worth looking at how the TIGER data was merged in the 'states... And not doing it that way. It wasn't merged, it was just imported and the TIGER data is largely nice approximations, but not very accurate. There will be a new TIGER data set in 2010 I believe that they've spent a lot more time, effort, money on to make it better. I'd personally prefer if if this kind of data wasn't even to be merged straight away. If it were made available in a format JOSM can overlay, actual humans could then go over it in the same way we currently do with Yahoo! imagery. If we get shape files they can be converted similar to the postcodes that we are manually importing at preset, however depending on the amount of data it may not be feasible to manually import it. * Takes more effort, but with a greater result. Not necessarily, a computer program will do the whole thing consistently, crowd sourcing will vary person to person. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] City Council mapping data import
Completely agree. I was thinking along similar lines given that I want the new data to be useful, instead of making a royal mess of what we've already got. I would be extra sweet to be able to do a a comparison between the OSM layer and data layer so that we can highlight new/different stuff (eg in 3 months we get a new data set and want to easily spot the new stuff to import). Jeff. From: Ashley Kyd a...@kyd.com.au To: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Cc: Mike Smith mikesm...@dominoconsultant.org; talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, 4 September, 2009 11:58:27 AM Subject: Re: [talk-au] City Council mapping data import It might be worth looking at how the TIGER data was merged in the 'states... And not doing it that way. I'd personally prefer if if this kind of data wasn't even to be merged straight away. If it were made available in a format JOSM can overlay, actual humans could then go over it in the same way we currently do with Yahoo! imagery. Benefits: * Crowdsource the import task. * Humans have a better idea as to how the data should be portrayed in OSM. * In already populated areas, humans are better at working out what should be merged. * It's better to build the map from the bottom up, rather than the top down. (By this I mean, it's better to import the data slowly and surely, rather than using import tools and having to go through and fix it all.) Drawbacks: * Takes time, not that we don't have it. * Takes more effort, but with a greater result. Just a thought. :) Ash. On Fri, 2009-09-04 at 11:09 +1000, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/4 Mike Smith mikesm...@dominoconsultant.org: So the offer has been made by a couple of geographic specialists in a couple of city councils for them to provide an initial data load from their GIS for use by OSM. The question is what do we want (in general); what format should it be in; how is an import facilitated (who can do it)? What format, osm format would be great! :) But seriously, shape files seem to be the next useful and can be converted to OSM, it really depends what format they can give the data to us is and if we can convert that to something more useful. The next question is going to be a little more difficult if the areas you are importing already have data. People from other countries have and are dealing with this so we'd be able to get help. The main thing to worry about is licensing, is the data being released under favourable terms, and also is the data allowed to be released under those terms. That is, was the data derived from another data set with more restrictions. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Ashley Kyd • Web Software Development in Brisbane, Australia. • Phone (07) 3129 2332, or visit http://kyd.com.au/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk-ie] (Out of) copyright maps in Ireland
The 1830-40 OS maps of Ireland are out of copyright in the sense that you can go into the National Archives and pick an 1842 map out of a drawer and copy it without infringing copyright. However, what the OSI offer on their website is another thing because they are not selling you the original maps but maps with added value, e.g. they are digitalised images. That's how all these reproducers of old material start the copyright clock again - either by supplying a digitalised file or adding some annotations or whatever. Paddy -Original Message- From: talk-ie-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ie-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Karl Grant Sent: 03 September 2009 16:09 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] (Out of) copyright maps in Ireland Hi all, Just trying to figure out if I can use old maps as a base for OSM. During my research I have found an OSI site www.irishhistoricmaps.ie which provides the same (pre 1900) for sale. But its terms state that all maps are copyright of OSI. I found this in the Statute book Quote: 36.-Sections 24 to 35 shall not apply to Government or Oireachtas copyright or to the copyright of prescribed international organisations. End Quote http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0028/sec0191.html (4) Government copyright in a work shall expire 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was made. Anyone got any more information on this? Karl ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie ___ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
[Talk-br] Limites de Municípios
Bom dia, Alguém aí tem os dados dos limites de municípios do Rio Grande do Sul, para importar? Tem três municípios no Rio Grande do Sul, que estou mapeando as estradas do interior, e preciso saber os limites destes municípios. Se alguém tiver esta informação, por favor me avise. Os municípios são: - Brochier (http://osm.org/go/M5t3EUVh--) - Maratá (http://osm.org/go/M5t3aMHs) - Poço das Antas (http://osm.org/go/M54hUuen--) Grato pela atenção. -- Rodrigo de Avila Analista de Desenvolvimento +55 51 9733.3488 • rodr...@avila.eti.br • www.avila.eti.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Limites de Municípios
Tem no FTP do IBGE. Foi assim que importei os limites de municípios do Rio de Janeiro e do Acre. [] 2009/9/3 Rodrigo de Avila rodr...@avila.eti.br Bom dia, Alguém aí tem os dados dos limites de municípios do Rio Grande do Sul, para importar? Tem três municípios no Rio Grande do Sul, que estou mapeando as estradas do interior, e preciso saber os limites destes municípios. Se alguém tiver esta informação, por favor me avise. Os municípios são: - Brochier (http://osm.org/go/M5t3EUVh--) - Maratá (http://osm.org/go/M5t3aMHs) - Poço das Antas (http://osm.org/go/M54hUuen--) Grato pela atenção. -- Rodrigo de Avila Analista de Desenvolvimento +55 51 9733.3488 • rodr...@avila.eti.br • www.avila.eti.br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
