Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

[John Smith]

2009/10/9 Lester Caine :
> Russ Nelson wrote:
>> I considered doing so, but this issue is larger than tagging.  Do you
>> have anything to contribute other than stop energy to my suggestion?
>>
>> Apollinaris Schoell writes:
>>  > can you move this thread to the new list where it belongs?
>
> I agree with Russ here.
> We still have not come to any consensus on the general points of mapping
> and who is in charge so a dictate from above TELLING us to move to a new
> list seems somewhat out of place?

I'm confused what the talk list is for, since we're not supposed to
talk about much on the talk list...

However I agree this is probably a better discussion for the tagging
list, since this thread is mostly about tagging, even if it's not
about specific tags.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

[Lester Caine]

Russ Nelson wrote:
> I considered doing so, but this issue is larger than tagging.  Do you
> have anything to contribute other than stop energy to my suggestion?
> 
> Apollinaris Schoell writes:
>  > can you move this thread to the new list where it belongs?

I agree with Russ here.
We still have not come to any consensus on the general points of mapping 
and who is in charge so a dictate from above TELLING us to move to a new 
list seems somewhat out of place?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

[Russ Nelson]

I considered doing so, but this issue is larger than tagging.  Do you
have anything to contribute other than stop energy to my suggestion?

Apollinaris Schoell writes:
 > can you move this thread to the new list where it belongs?

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

[Apollinaris Schoell]

can you move this thread to the new list where it belongs?

Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce a new mailing list: tagg...@openstreetmap.org .

You can subscribe at:
   http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

The mailing list description is "tag discussion, strategy and related
tools".

The list will enable those who want to discuss tags to do so at any
length they like, especially those who might not subscribe to talk@
because of its general high volume but would like to be involved in
tagging discussions. Equally, it will help those who are less
interested, and only use a subset of tags in their mapping work, avoid
the discussions.

Enjoy. :)

cheers
Richard


On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> Doctau created the following page, and various other people have
> contributed to it.
>
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/VotingOnTheWikiIsStupid
>
> I don't think voting is stupid, but I do believe that voting is not
> productive.  Here's what I believe we should do instead of voting on
> features:
>
> 1) Just map.
>
> 2) Use existing keys if you can.  When you use a key, check to see if
> there's an existing value that matches what you are mapping.  To go
> looking, put your key into the following URL where it says "shop":
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop
>
> 3) Use existing tags if you can.  When you use a tag (key=value),
> check to see if an existing tag is already documented.  Don't use it
> in a different way if it's already documented.  To go looking, change
> this URL where it says "shop=car":
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car
>
> 4) If you used a tag that isn't in the wiki, document your use of the
> tag, so that other people won't use your tag to mean something else.
>
> 5) If you disagree with the definition of the key or value, then
> create a new key or value with a different name, use it in your
> editing, document it in the wiki, AND (this is important) put a link
> to it in the definition that you disagree with.
>
> 6) The risk of this system is that people will not find tags that have
> the meaning they're looking for.  They'll then create a new tag which
> has an identical or similar meaning to an existing one.  If you find a
> pair of these tags which have similar meanings, you should edit the
> wiki pages for them, and include pointers to each other.
>
> The benefit is that people spend more time mapping and less time
> coordinating with each other on things that don't need to be
> coordinated in advance.
>
> --
> --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
> Crynwr supports open source software
> 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241
> Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

[John Smith]

2009/10/9 Russ Nelson :
> The benefit is that people spend more time mapping and less time
> coordinating with each other on things that don't need to be
> coordinated in advance.

I disagree, there are contentious tags I just won't bother doing
anything with, simply because it seems like it would be a waste of my
time at present, I really would love nothing better than a
determination by a group that is set up to evaluate such tags and give
not just an opinion but a considered opinion that tagging things in a
certain way is a best practise of sorts.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Instead of voting

[Russ Nelson]

Doctau created the following page, and various other people have
contributed to it.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/VotingOnTheWikiIsStupid

I don't think voting is stupid, but I do believe that voting is not
productive.  Here's what I believe we should do instead of voting on
features:

1) Just map.

2) Use existing keys if you can.  When you use a key, check to see if
there's an existing value that matches what you are mapping.  To go
looking, put your key into the following URL where it says "shop":
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop

3) Use existing tags if you can.  When you use a tag (key=value),
check to see if an existing tag is already documented.  Don't use it
in a different way if it's already documented.  To go looking, change
this URL where it says "shop=car":
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=car

4) If you used a tag that isn't in the wiki, document your use of the
tag, so that other people won't use your tag to mean something else.

5) If you disagree with the definition of the key or value, then
create a new key or value with a different name, use it in your
editing, document it in the wiki, AND (this is important) put a link
to it in the definition that you disagree with.

6) The risk of this system is that people will not find tags that have
the meaning they're looking for.  They'll then create a new tag which
has an identical or similar meaning to an existing one.  If you find a
pair of these tags which have similar meanings, you should edit the
wiki pages for them, and include pointers to each other.

The benefit is that people spend more time mapping and less time
coordinating with each other on things that don't need to be
coordinated in advance.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

[John Smith]

2009/10/9 Mike N. :
>> Not quite the same thing but I was told last week some colour blind
>> people can't use Google maps because there is too much green, but they
>> can use maps based on OSM data, not sure which style etc, because it
>> has less/no green
>
>  As long as they don't live in Georgia 
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.705&lon=-84.169&zoom=9&layers=B000FTF

As I said, not sure which map style they're using, might be something
like midnight commander or fresh, both show up vastly different to the
default mapnik style.

http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=34.894942&lng=-83.861389&zoom=9&styleId=997
http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=34.894942&lng=-83.861389&zoom=9&styleId=999

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

[Mike N.]

> Not quite the same thing but I was told last week some colour blind
> people can't use Google maps because there is too much green, but they
> can use maps based on OSM data, not sure which style etc, because it
> has less/no green

  As long as they don't live in Georgia 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=34.705&lon=-84.169&zoom=9&layers=B000FTF
 

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

[John Smith]

2009/10/9 Lulu-Ann :
> Hello list members,
>
> starting today there is a visual slippy map displaying map features for
> the blind an visually impaired available in a beta testing state:
>
> http://freenet-homepage.de/rapunzely/OSM/blindmap.html
>
> Hobby cartographers without visual impairment can now check their
> contributions to the map for the blind, what will give them motivation.
>
> That is how the map will force the adding of tags relevant for tactile
> maps and navigation software for the blind as the next steps.
>
> The two tags "tactile paving" and "traffic_signals:sound" are
> already surprisingly often used.
>
> Thank you to all contributors!
>
> More tags will be added from time to time.
>
> Please spread this information to your interested friends
> and colleagues.

Not quite the same thing but I was told last week some colour blind
people can't use Google maps because there is too much green, but they
can use maps based on OSM data, not sure which style etc, because it
has less/no green

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

[Lulu-Ann]

Hello list members,

starting today there is a visual slippy map displaying map features for
the blind an visually impaired available in a beta testing state:

http://freenet-homepage.de/rapunzely/OSM/blindmap.html

Hobby cartographers without visual impairment can now check their
contributions to the map for the blind, what will give them motivation.

That is how the map will force the adding of tags relevant for tactile
maps and navigation software for the blind as the next steps.

The two tags "tactile paving" and "traffic_signals:sound" are 
already surprisingly often used.

Thank you to all contributors!

More tags will be added from time to time.

Please spread this information to your interested friends
and colleagues.

Regards
Lulu-Ann



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

[Bráulio Bezerra da Silva]

I agree with you. Every single map of my city I've seen has some "planned
roads" where in reality we have a forest or something else. These roads are
in the "oficial map" of the city plan made by the authorities and are
promptly copied to comercial maps. I think we should map only things that
are clearly in the construction phase, and of course use a tag to indicate
this.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Polderrunner  wrote:

>
>
> Dave F. wrote:
> >>>
> > It might be worth contacting the developer. They might have plans that
> > they can let you copy.
> >
>
> Not sure you got my point (I should have used a smiley). I don't want to
> put anything into osm that is just lines on a blueprint in a drawer at
> the municipality. I map what's on the ground. When (if) those streets
> actually get built then I will map them.
>
> TeleAtlas apparently got those plans from the municipality and promptly
> included them in their database as if those streets are already there.
> May lead to a few confused TomTom users in that area :-)
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Nick Black]

Hi Guys,
As Igor says, there are some bugs with our handling of turn restrictions :-(


They are the most urgent routing bugs we have to fix, so we'll be getting
onto them as soon as possible.

--
Nick



On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Pascal Neis  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Longbow4u schrieb:
> >> It there any website that is using OSM data and utilizes turn
> >> restrictions?
> >>
> >
> > Openrouteservice.org uses turn restrictions - but they do not supply
> information
> > about the date of their used maps.
>
> That's not right, ORS do NOT support turn restrictions.
> The updates take place (normally) always on Wednesdays. [1]
>
> regards,
> pascal
>
>
> [1]
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OpenRouteService#General_Information
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
-- 
Nick Black
twitter.com/nick_b
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

[OJ W]

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Dave F.  wrote:
> It might be worth contacting the developer. They might have plans that
> they can let you copy.

How much permission do we need for stuff like that?  I have this map:

http://warper.geothings.net/maps/preview/1474

... where someone working for the developer in their sales office said
"no problems adding this to your map".  But without anything in
writing from the company's lawyers, is it OK to add to OSM?

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Shaun McDonald]

On 8 Oct 2009, at 10:39, Richard Fairhurst wrote:



Gervase Markham wrote:

oneway=no might be useful in the very rare case that mappers for
some reason keep marking a road as oneway, but it's actually not!
But I'd expect a note= to be more appropriate. Other than that, I
agree it and noexit=no seem pointless.


oneway=no is useful for highway types which would usually imply  
oneway=yes:

highway=motorway, highway=motorway_link and junction=roundabout. The
southern A601(M), that bonkers sliproad on the M50, and (depending on
interpretation) the Swindon Magic Roundabout are UK examples of each  
case

where two-way traffic is permitted.



There is nothing wrong with mapping each lane even when it is two way,  
as that is effectively what it is as I doubt you'd be allowed to do a  
u-turn on most of those examples.


Shaun



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Dave F.]

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> http://www.pathetic.org.uk/
What a superb site. What t'internet was invented for. :-)
 

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

[Dave F.]

Polderrunner wrote:
> Dave F. wrote:
>   
 
 
>> It might be worth contacting the developer. They might have plans that 
>> they can let you copy.
>>
>> 
>
> Not sure you got my point (I should have used a smiley). I don't want to 
> put anything into osm that is just lines on a blueprint in a drawer at 
> the municipality. I map what's on the ground. When (if) those streets 
> actually get built then I will map them.
>   

Err.. OK.
Developers accurate detailed plans less worth than GPS signals in a 
built up area?
OK, if you say so. I know which I'd rather have.

> TeleAtlas apparently got those plans from the municipality and promptly 
> included them in their database as if those streets are already there. 
> May lead to a few confused TomTom users in that area :-)
>
>
>   
True. I didn't suggest using them immediately, I thought that if you got 
hold of them they might be useful references, but whatever you think's best.

Cheers
Dave F.
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>   


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

[John F. Eldredge]

I have found situations in the past where maps showed bridges that had been 
planned, but, even decades later, were never actually built.

--Original Message--
From: Polderrunner
Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
To: Open Street Map mailing list
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet
Sent: Oct 8, 2009 1:56 PM



Dave F. wrote:
>>>
> It might be worth contacting the developer. They might have plans that
> they can let you copy.
>

Not sure you got my point (I should have used a smiley). I don't want to
put anything into osm that is just lines on a blueprint in a drawer at
the municipality. I map what's on the ground. When (if) those streets
actually get built then I will map them.

TeleAtlas apparently got those plans from the municipality and promptly
included them in their database as if those streets are already there.
May lead to a few confused TomTom users in that area :-)



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

[Polderrunner]

Dave F. wrote:
>>> 
> It might be worth contacting the developer. They might have plans that 
> they can let you copy.
> 

Not sure you got my point (I should have used a smiley). I don't want to 
put anything into osm that is just lines on a blueprint in a drawer at 
the municipality. I map what's on the ground. When (if) those streets 
actually get built then I will map them.

TeleAtlas apparently got those plans from the municipality and promptly 
included them in their database as if those streets are already there. 
May lead to a few confused TomTom users in that area :-)



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering of Place Names in Mapnik

[Scott Atwood]

I hate to revive a long dead thread, but the issue still exists and
Brandon's good idea seems to have been forgotten about.  Does anybody have
any suggestions for how this idea might be implemented within OSM?
-Scott

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Brandon Aguirre wrote:

> US census has a well-organized system of divisions that might suit the need
> to create hierarchy within urban agglomerations and poly-centric regions.
>
>
>1. PMSA- Primary Metropolitan Statistical Area  i.e. Greater SF Bay
>Area is a PMSA
>2. SMSA- Secondary Metropolitan Statistical Area possibly
>SF-Penninsula, Oakland-EastBay and SJ-SouthBay are SMSAs
>3. MSA- Metropolitan Statistical Area- the pop. figures and
>characteristics escape me...
>
>
> PMSA and SMSA account for the SFs and Miamis of the US by statistically
> recognizing the central core city as the generator/facilitator of activity
> (Greater So. Fla: 5.8 million, Miami 380,000) Having these two designations
> also helps in cases like Ft. Lauderdale, which is part of the Miami PMSA and
> is a 'core city' of it's own SMSA, yet it's population is only 160,000 while
> the Miami suburb of Hialeah is over 200,000. the automatic deference to FTL
> would be built in.
>
> Making use of that info however, is where my tech skills fail me
>
> As a side note-
> Denver: True City/County
> Indianapolis: Annexed entire Marion County
> Louisville: Government & Municipal consolidation
> Jacksonville: Annexed entire St. John's County
> Broomfield, CO (a tiny suburb of Denver: True City/County
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brandon Aguirre
> Community Development
> CloudMade
>
> 503.998.1567
> Skype: bragpdx
> bran...@cloudmade.com
> www.cloudmade.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:46 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
>
> As a datapoint, Google renders SF and SJ the same way until you zoom out
> far enough, and then SJ disappears.
>
> FWIW,
> -Beej
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>


-- 
Scott Atwood

The hill isn't in the way, it is the way.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Pascal Neis]

Hi,

Longbow4u schrieb:
>> It there any website that is using OSM data and utilizes turn 
>> restrictions?
>>
> 
> Openrouteservice.org uses turn restrictions - but they do not supply 
> information
> about the date of their used maps. 

That's not right, ORS do NOT support turn restrictions.
The updates take place (normally) always on Wednesdays. [1]

regards,
pascal


[1] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OpenRouteService#General_Information


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google Updates its Data

[Apollinaris Schoell]

the interesting change is in US. No copyright info linking to Teleatlas.
Google is now it's own map provider. I was long awaiting this move.  
With their data from Streetview they can extract nearly every  
information from streetsigns and roadmarking.
But their data is still wrong in many places where they don't had  
access to driving. They need to hire more hikers and bikers for  
streetview. osm is still ahead :)



On 8 Oct 2009, at 1:02 , Barnett, Phillip wrote:

> Sadly, the ‘Report a problem’ link only seems to apply to the USA.  
> If you pan across to the UK, say, it doesn’t appear.
>
>
>
> PHILLIP BARNETT
> SERVER MANAGER
>
> 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD
> LONDON
> WC1X 8XZ
> UNITED KINGDOM
> T +44 (0)20 7430 4474
> F
> E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk
> WWW.ITN.CO.UK
> P  Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this  
> email?
>
> From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- 
> boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ian Dees
> Sent: 07 October 2009 18:24
> To: OSM Talk
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Google Updates its Data
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009/10/your-world-your-map.html
>
> Looks like they've imported the NHD and USGS data sets (I thought  
> they already had), making their tiles look a lot fuller. Interesting!
>
> Yipes, sent too soon. They've also added a "report a problem" link  
> in the lower right corner of their maps.
>
> If I could figure out a way to report it, I would tell them that  
> there might not be a state park running through the middle of  
> Minneapolis:
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=&sll=44.983256,-93.250151&sspn=0.040675,0.064373&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=44.983256,-93.250151&spn=0.040675,0.064373&z=14
> Please Note:
>
>
>
> Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not  
> necessarily represent
> those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically  
> stated.
> This email and any files attached are confidential and intended  
> solely for the use of the individual
> or entity to which they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify postmas...@itn.co.uk
>
> Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the  
> protection of our clients and business,
> we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems.
>
> Thank You.
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Richard Bullock]

>> oneway=no is useful for highway types which would usually imply 
>> oneway=yes:
>> highway=motorway, highway=motorway_link and junction=roundabout. The
>> southern A601(M), that bonkers sliproad on the M50, and (depending on
>> interpretation) the Swindon Magic Roundabout are UK examples of each case
>> where two-way traffic is permitted.
>>
> Richard
>
> Do you know where are the Motorway Ends signs are located in you examples?
>
> OS define the links as M*  classification, but Google shows them as A* & 
> B*.
>
> http://osm.org/go/evhVzyiB
>
> http://osm.org/go/euwqKRNL
>
Google has it incorrect. The southern A601(M) is definitely (M)

http://www.pathetic.org.uk/current/a601m/photos/pages/Dsc00054_jpg.shtml

Richard 


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Tobias Knerr]

Igor Shubovych:
> CloudMade definitely has some support for turn restrictions.
> [...]
> Unfortunately there are a lot of bugs there. CloudMade is going to fix it
> during next couple of months.

Is it a known bug that restrictions with restriction=only_* tag are
apparently handled as if they were restriction=no_*?

There recently was a German forum thread where someone encountered that
problem (http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=5022). One of
the examples was this route
http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=51.243972&lng=6.78645&zoom=18&directions=51.243609690021025,6.787233352661133,51.2442275913119,6.786621809005737&travel=car&styleId=1
that probably was influenced by this restriction relation:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/183709

(There are some other links with examples in this thread, which are all
related to only_*-restrictions.)

Tobias Knerr

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Longbow4u]

> It there any website that is using OSM data and utilizes turn 
> restrictions?
> 

Openrouteservice.org uses turn restrictions - but they do not supply information
about the date of their used maps. It is sorry that cloudmade routing does
(not/not always?) use turn restrictions, especially since some Navigation
programs like Roadee on Iphone use cloudmade routing. I gave feedback to the
cloudmade website, but have heard nothing since. Not using turn restrictions
leads to wrong or illegal routes. I hope that they work on it. It would be nice
if they would supply a roadmap and a time frame for this improvement. Keeping my
fingers crossed. Perhaps a problem is that their routing API appears to be for
free of charge - so that there is not enough cash flow to finance improvements.
I would charge a small amount of money from commercial users and work hard to
get the service on a par with other commercial offerings. 

Longbow4u





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Richard Fairhurst]

Dave F. wrote:
> Do you know where are the Motorway Ends signs are located in you examples?
> OS define the links as M*  classification, but Google shows them as A* &
> B*.
> http://osm.org/go/evhVzyiB
> http://osm.org/go/euwqKRNL

On the M50 (I was originally thinking about j3, which is our regular route
from Charlbury to South Wales, but I guess it applies to j1 too) the whole
slip-road is definitely under motorway regulation and signed as such. The
highway design principle is that if a road leads inexorably to a motorway,
it must itself be a motorway - otherwise non-motorway traffic will find
itself stuck with nowhere to go. So Google is wrong, surprise surprise.

I don't know the A601(M) that well - I've only been there once. But
http://www.pathetic.org.uk/current/a601m/ is pretty clear that it's all
motorway, too.

> I interpret the the Magic Roundabout as separate lanes as there are 
> central reservations. Which, I believe, is how you mapped it (?)
> http://osm.org/go/eumbs5che--

Yep, absolutely. Hemel Hempstead would have been a better example.

cheers
Richard
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/SteveC-should-decide-tp25692544p25802973.html
Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL "virality" questions

[Matt Amos]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Gustav Foseid  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Matt Amos  wrote:
>>
>> what are your thoughts?
>
> I have a hard time seeing how any of these usecases can be anything other
> than insubstantial extractions. The database directive (article 15) says
> that "Any contractual provision contrary to Articles 6 (1) and 8 shall be
> null and void" where 8 says that extraction of insubstantial parts are
> allowed.

substantial itself is not defined, so we have a guideline for it
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Substantial_Defined

looking at the definition (which is negative, these are for insubstantialness):

* Less than 100 Features.

all UK pubs is likely to be more than 100 features.

* More that 100 Features only if the extraction is non-systematic
and clearly based on your own qualitative criteria for example an
extract of all the the locations of restaurants you have visited for a
personal map to share with friends or use the locations of a selection
of historic buildings as an adjunct in a book you are writing, we
would regard that as non Substantial. The systematic extraction of all
eating places within an area or at all castles within an area would be
considered to be systematic.

looks like all UK pubs would be considered systematic, therefore substantial.

* The features relating to an area of up to 1,000 inhabitants
which can be a small densely populated area such as a European village
or can be a large sparsely-populated area for example a section of the
Australian bush.

UK population is almost 61 million, so it looks substantial on this count too.

are you suggesting that we change our guideline on what is substantial?

> Why would we want to make guidelines that are "null and void" in the EU? I
> cannot see any gain for OSM in trying to overstate our rights.

we aren't.

cheers,

matt

___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Igor Shubovych]

Hello Valent,

CloudMade definitely has some support for turn restrictions.

Here is the example:
http://maps.cloudmade.com/?layers=B000FTF&lat=48.199192&lng=16.300535&zoom=15&directions=48.19716101447791,16.296372413635254,48.202295544143816,16.302917003631592&travel=car&styleId=1

Restriction used :
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2174

Unfortunately there are a lot of bugs there. CloudMade is going to fix it
during next couple of months.

Igor Shubovych

2009/10/8 Valent Turkovic 

> I have added a few turn restrictions in my home town of Osijek, but it
> seams that Cloudmade is ignoring them. Why? Does maps.cloudmade.com use
> turn restricitons feature?
>
> It there any website that is using OSM data and utilizes turn
> restrictions?
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
> --
> pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt
> http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/
> linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless
> registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org.
> ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL "virality" questions

[Gustav Foseid]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Matt Amos  wrote:

> what are your thoughts?
>

I have a hard time seeing how any of these usecases can be anything other
than insubstantial extractions. The database directive (article 15) says
that "Any contractual provision contrary to Articles 6 (1) and 8 shall be
null and void" where 8 says that extraction of insubstantial parts are
allowed.

Why would we want to make guidelines that are "null and void" in the EU? I
cannot see any gain for OSM in trying to overstate our rights.

 - Gustav
___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Maarten Deen]

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:18:50 +0300, Ciprian Talaba

wrote:

> From what I know Cloudmade's routing is not using turn restrinctions
(yet).
> If you want something like this take a look at YOURS:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/YOURS.

I just tried YOURS for some turn restrictions I made (according to the
last edit date on september 20th, YOURS data is from september 23th) and
YOURS does not obey them.

Example:

You should only be routed straight on, on both roads.

Maarten


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Ciprian Talaba]

Hi Valent,

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Valent Turkovic
wrote:

> I have added a few turn restrictions in my home town of Osijek, but it
> seams that Cloudmade is ignoring them. Why? Does maps.cloudmade.com use
> turn restricitons feature?
>
> It there any website that is using OSM data and utilizes turn
> restrictions?
>
> Cheers!
>

>From what I know Cloudmade's routing is not using turn restrinctions (yet).
If you want something like this take a look at YOURS:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/YOURS.

--Ciprian
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[John F. Eldredge]

Using the URL seems reasonable, since the URL is unique and the page title 
likely isn't unique.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

-Original Message-
From: "Dave F." 
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:43:40 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Gervase Markham wrote:
>
>> e.g. maxspeed=no is the same as maxspeed=infinite
Although technically correct (some autobahns?) it seems positively
dangerous to label as such. (no).

> oneway=no is useful for highway types which would usually imply oneway=yes:
> highway=motorway, highway=motorway_link and junction=roundabout. The
> southern A601(M), that bonkers sliproad on the M50, and (depending on
> interpretation) the Swindon Magic Roundabout are UK examples of each case
> where two-way traffic is permitted.
>
Richard

Do you know where are the Motorway Ends signs are located in you examples?

OS define the links as M*  classification, but Google shows them as A* & B*.

http://osm.org/go/evhVzyiB

http://osm.org/go/euwqKRNL

I interpret the the Magic Roundabout as separate lanes as there are
central reservations.
Which, I believe, is how you mapped it (?)
http://osm.org/go/eumbs5che--

I notice in the relation for the MR, the wiki tag has the title of the
relevant page.
I've been using the URL. Is there a reason I shouldn't?

Cheers
Dave F.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Dave F.]

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Gervase Markham wrote:
>   
>> e.g. maxspeed=no is the same as maxspeed=infinite
Although technically correct (some autobahns?) it seems positively 
dangerous to label as such. (no).

> oneway=no is useful for highway types which would usually imply oneway=yes:
> highway=motorway, highway=motorway_link and junction=roundabout. The
> southern A601(M), that bonkers sliproad on the M50, and (depending on
> interpretation) the Swindon Magic Roundabout are UK examples of each case
> where two-way traffic is permitted.
>   
Richard

Do you know where are the Motorway Ends signs are located in you examples?

OS define the links as M*  classification, but Google shows them as A* & B*.

http://osm.org/go/evhVzyiB

http://osm.org/go/euwqKRNL

I interpret the the Magic Roundabout as separate lanes as there are 
central reservations.
Which, I believe, is how you mapped it (?)
http://osm.org/go/eumbs5che--

I notice in the relation for the MR, the wiki tag has the title of the 
relevant page.
I've been using the URL. Is there a reason I shouldn't?

Cheers
Dave F.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] cloud made routing and turn restrictions

[Valent Turkovic]

I have added a few turn restrictions in my home town of Osijek, but it 
seams that Cloudmade is ignoring them. Why? Does maps.cloudmade.com use 
turn restricitons feature?

It there any website that is using OSM data and utilizes turn 
restrictions?

Cheers!



-- 
pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt
http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/
linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless
registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org.
ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Richard Fairhurst]

Gervase Markham wrote:
> oneway=no might be useful in the very rare case that mappers for 
> some reason keep marking a road as oneway, but it's actually not! 
> But I'd expect a note= to be more appropriate. Other than that, I 
> agree it and noexit=no seem pointless.

oneway=no is useful for highway types which would usually imply oneway=yes:
highway=motorway, highway=motorway_link and junction=roundabout. The
southern A601(M), that bonkers sliproad on the M50, and (depending on
interpretation) the Swindon Magic Roundabout are UK examples of each case
where two-way traffic is permitted.

cheers
Richard
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/SteveC-should-decide-tp25692544p25801054.html
Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

[Gervase Markham]

On 08/10/09 01:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> oh yes, there are. oneway=no, maxspeed=no, drinkable=no, building=no,
> area=no, noexit=no (really, it is just used 803 times, but we could
> add it to millions of ways), access=no,  actually many tags do
> have some no-values in the db, also if it doesn't make much sense in
> many cases.

OK, I should have been more careful in what I said. When I said "no-one 
has genuinely suggested", I mean that no-one has put forward a proposal 
which has received significant levels of support.

But having said that, some of the examples you list above are actually 
positive pieces of information, not denotations of a positive lack.

e.g. maxspeed=no is the same as maxspeed=infinite
  drinkable=no is the same as undrinkable=yes

oneway=no might be useful in the very rare case that mappers for some 
reason keep marking a road as oneway, but it's actually not! But I'd 
expect a note= to be more appropriate. Other than that, I agree it and 
noexit=no seem pointless.

Gerv


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Google Updates its Data

[Barnett, Phillip]

Sadly, the 'Report a problem' link only seems to apply to the USA. If you pan 
across to the UK, say, it doesn't appear.


[http://www.itn.co.uk/images/ITN_Master_blue.gif]
PHILLIP BARNETT
SERVER MANAGER

200 GRAY'S INN ROAD
LONDON
WC1X 8XZ
UNITED KINGDOM
T +44 (0)20 7430 4474
F
E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk
WWW.ITN.CO.UK
P  Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?


From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On 
Behalf Of Ian Dees
Sent: 07 October 2009 18:24
To: OSM Talk
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Google Updates its Data

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Ian Dees 
mailto:ian.d...@gmail.com>> wrote:
http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009/10/your-world-your-map.html

Looks like they've imported the NHD and USGS data sets (I thought they already 
had), making their tiles look a lot fuller. Interesting!

Yipes, sent too soon. They've also added a "report a problem" link in the lower 
right corner of their maps.

If I could figure out a way to report it, I would tell them that there might 
not be a state park running through the middle of Minneapolis:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=&sll=44.983256,-93.250151&sspn=0.040675,0.064373&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=&ll=44.983256,-93.250151&spn=0.040675,0.064373&z=14
Please Note:

 

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. 
This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the 
use of the individual
or entity to which they are addressed. 
If you have received this email in error, please notify postmas...@itn.co.uk 

Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our 
clients and business,
we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems.

Thank You.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Posters for Mapping Party

[John Smith]

A lot of these files end up in http://svn.openstreetmap.org

On 08/10/2009 4:29 PM, "Sajjad Anwar"  wrote:

Hey.
I have seen a few posters of mapping parties.
Does any one share the source files?

Thanks.


Regards.

-- 
Sajjad Anwar
http://geohackers.in
http://fsugcalicut.org
+91 9995 19 13 12

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk