Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[nicolas chavent]

Hi Christoph, Frederik and all,

Thanks Christoph and Frederik for your two emails, two points related to
Benin :

Christoph, thanks for setting up that hosting and serving of 100% opendata
resources that we will be using in compliment of the freshly purchased
imagery over Cotonou for data creation in OSM. We will also be using it
locally in RS and this is a real add on for sure. Since 2012 with the
overall support of Frederic Moine (aka Fred cc'ed), drones have been used
in Haiti in crisis response (Sandy Haiti 2012) and in
development/preparedness contexte over Haiti by a collective of Haitian
dronistes also membres of OSM groups in Haiti (cc'ed Jean Presler aka Pres)
with some support of the International Organization Of Migration (IOM),
Drones Adventures, CartONG (Fred having designed and run a community drone
campaign support program for that French NGO) (1). Fred and the Haitian
dronists crew work has been pioneer in drone uses in real crisis response
work and at community level and held as a reference by domain experts
(UNOSAT etc, Fred can provide materials). This is what we are looking at
doing to fully address OSM imagery needs through 100% hyper high res
imagery in Western Africa via a South-South cooperation mechanisms allowing
Haitian and African to collect imagery via drones and map it jointly both
in Haiti and Africa. The connection already exists and in our last Togo
capacity building mission, we had a mapathon where by Western Africans
mapped Areas at risk in Port Au Prince (Haiti) tracing over an imagery
collected by the local Haitian droners and mappers (2,3). This
unfortunately requires funding we did not manage to secure yet and are
working on it. Purchasing imagery for OSM is one option at hand to boost
mapping in Cotonou via remote AND intensive field work done by Benin
mappers and partners in Academic, NGOs, Local Gov, Tech etc.

@Frederik, your point is well heard in Bénin where remote mapping will not
kill, nor demotivate, nor diminish field work, it will go hand in hand and
contribute to more efficiently use scarse voluntary or hyper small budget
resources and get more impact, enrich the map, grow the community and
enlarge the circle of partners + gain remote support from other Western
African groups and the overall global community.

Thanks for your two emails, apologies if any of the above clarification is
too long, I just felt details specific to the Benin were necessary at this
stage.

Excellent day to all
Best,
Nicolas

(1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oou32o-jR0M
(2):
https://projeteof.org/blog/action-openstreetmap-haiti-2015-an-osm-technical-and-organizational-support-initiative-in-haiti/
(3):
https://projeteof.org/blog/action-osm-2015-togo-mapathon-mivamapper-et-state-of-the-map-2015-togo-durant-gis-day-et-geoweek/


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 04/28/16 08:55, Greg Morgan wrote:
> > The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from
> > Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and
> > more imperialism.
>
> The main problem I have with armchair mapping is not "people map an area
> without going out", it's "people map an area without EVER HAVING BEEN
> THERE".
>
> I'm less concerned about you mapping your extended home region from
> aerial imagery (assuming for a moment that you live in Montana). If you
> find something on an image that makes you wonder, you can always make a
> small detour on your next trip to the supermarket and check it out in
> person, plus you'll know what kind of builidngs are common in the area
> and so on.
>
> What I think is bad for data quality is people from thousands of miles
> away "helping" by tracing from aerial imagery without local knowledge.
> This might work for the most basic of features but it has been shown
> that even something as seemingly straigforward as the tracing of
> buildings can go quite wrong if you don't know anything about the
> culture and the area, and *this* has been branded (accidental)
> imperialism by some - "what looks like a German barn on the aerial image
> certainly must be a barn in Ghana too".
>
> > Germany is about the size
> > of Montana USA.  Germany has a population of about 89 million people.
> > Montana has a population of around one million people.
>
> The city of Coutonou alone - to come back to the subject - has 800k
> inhabitants, so a lower bound for the population density in the area
> being discussed here is 3000 people per square kilometre; about 1000
> times as much as Montana and about 10 times as much as Germany. I do
> realize that People in Coutonou might have other priorities in live than
> the spoilt kids in Germany but I don't think it serves your argument to
> invoke population density.
>
> > Arm chair
> > mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases.
>
> I dont't think that arm chair mapping is "perfectly good" in many cases,
> I think the risk of said 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/28/16 08:55, Greg Morgan wrote:
> The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from
> Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and
> more imperialism. 

The main problem I have with armchair mapping is not "people map an area
without going out", it's "people map an area without EVER HAVING BEEN
THERE".

I'm less concerned about you mapping your extended home region from
aerial imagery (assuming for a moment that you live in Montana). If you
find something on an image that makes you wonder, you can always make a
small detour on your next trip to the supermarket and check it out in
person, plus you'll know what kind of builidngs are common in the area
and so on.

What I think is bad for data quality is people from thousands of miles
away "helping" by tracing from aerial imagery without local knowledge.
This might work for the most basic of features but it has been shown
that even something as seemingly straigforward as the tracing of
buildings can go quite wrong if you don't know anything about the
culture and the area, and *this* has been branded (accidental)
imperialism by some - "what looks like a German barn on the aerial image
certainly must be a barn in Ghana too".

> Germany is about the size
> of Montana USA.  Germany has a population of about 89 million people.
> Montana has a population of around one million people.

The city of Coutonou alone - to come back to the subject - has 800k
inhabitants, so a lower bound for the population density in the area
being discussed here is 3000 people per square kilometre; about 1000
times as much as Montana and about 10 times as much as Germany. I do
realize that People in Coutonou might have other priorities in live than
the spoilt kids in Germany but I don't think it serves your argument to
invoke population density.

> Arm chair
> mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases.

I dont't think that arm chair mapping is "perfectly good" in many cases,
I think the risk of said accidental imperialism is too high. Would you
want Montana mapped by people who've never even been to the US and
perhaps don't even speak English?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 28 April 2016, Greg Morgan wrote:
>
> The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from
> Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and
> more imperialism.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.  

Most of my mapping in OSM is in areas much more severely 
underrepresented in usual image sources than Benin.  So i am well aware 
of the problem of cultural and economic bias in remote mapping sources 
and i have also discussed this several years ago already [1].

But you do not solve this problem by buying satellite imagery for the 
areas you find underrepresented.  Satellite operators like 
Airbus-DS/CNES and DigitalGlobe are not any more neutral than companies 
like Mapbox, they likewise 'serve priority markets' and you are not 
going to change these priorities with a few thousand bucks of crowd 
sourced money.  To really overcome these problems you'd need to create 
the means to locally produce comparable data sources through aerial 
imaging.

But to do something productive instead of just talking i set up some 
open imagery for the area in question [2].  This is of course not in 
any way comparable to what is envisioned by the Benin community but it 
is way better than what in the crowd funding campain is shown as the 
currently available level.  You won't be able to trace buildings or 
smaller urban streets from it but there is still a lot of map-worthy 
stuff that can be derived from this data (even more if you also use 
infrared data which i left out for the purpose of ease of use) and it 
is recent, from December last year.  Also this should show that there 
are truly open image sources that are frequently better in either 
actuality or resolution than what Bing and Mapbox offer.

[1] http://blog.imagico.de/new-franz-josef-land-map/
[2] 
http://maps.imagico.de/#map=9/6.702/2.215=en=sat=osmim=3=8
tms:http://imagico.de/map/osmim_tiles.php?layer=S2A_R022_N06_20151221T103009={zoom}={x}={-y}

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[nicolas chavent]

Hi Greg and all,

Greg, we are 100% in agreement (your text is below).
OSM Benin folks know their country, their OSM stuffs, their needs and the
support of the collective ProjetEOF did crowdsource (with success from
yesterda) for high res imagery over Cotonou
This allow to open a dialogue with Digital Globe wich hopefully may lead to
additional creative options for imagery delivery usable to enrich OSM.
Thanks for those who participated into this effort.
The overall is positive for OSM Benin and OSM tout court and in Cotonou
this will change the map, the community, and foster the opendata dynamic
through the production and release of OSM data.
Let's rejoy and for those adhering to the OSM Benin way, work collectively
into making Cotonou a nicely mapped city.
Folks from Mali, France already started to travel to Cotonou, others from
Niger, Burkina, Ivory Coast, Senegal and France are getting ready to hit
the road or board train and plane: we will be around 20 there for 3 weeks
working in a capacity building program around OSM, GIS (QGIS), webGIS
(uMap/Leaflet), Spatial Data Infrastructure (Georchestra), opendata,
humanitarian and development topics tied to organizationl skills and
techniques. We will be working with OSM Benin partners in the tech scene,
Academic, Local/Central Government, NGOs, Red Cross, journalists and Civil
Society.
Details on this mission blog post (1,2), more updates (including English
versions) to follow on this account and social media. On twitter, stay
tuned to @OSMBenin, @ProjetEOF, #map4bj, #ProjetEOF).

Best,
++
Nicolas

(1) :
https://projeteof.org/blog/action-openstreetmap-2016-benin-du-1-au-21-mai-2016/
(2) :
https://projeteof.org/blog/crowdfunding-for-openstreetmap-in-benin-275km%c2%b2-high-resolution-satellite-imagery-for-cotonou-by-1-may-2016/

> nicolas chavent  wrote
> There is a local OSM group active in Benin since mid 2013,
> This group is skilled they got trained via (capacity building missions run
> by the collective Projet EOF) and had been always self training and
growing
> their skills, growing their community and training Academic, Benin Red
Cross
> Volunteers, Civil workers from local government, folks from the local tech
> scene etc...
> This group has a few equipments at hand,
> They share a co-working space (Blolab) in Cotonou with other tech actors,
> They have been active in their country (several places and various mapping
> project) and in Western Africa through regional 3 to 4 weeks long capacity
> building missions involving a lot of field and remote mapping work
> They operate mostly on a voluntary basis with low means and they grow
their
> map and their community.
> They decided to crowdfund for these 275km2 high res imagery in Cotonou
> because this has been blocking them and that a few additional GPS Units
will
> not make the difference, but this imagery will do!

 I don't see what the problem is.  Bénin mappers have already
performed an analysis of the problem.  I don't see why they cannot
proceed. If Digital Globe, MapBox or any other organization what to
contribute to the Bénin project, then then that is even better.  The
Bénin mappers are very savvy.  They have used a crowd funding site to
freely advertise their efforts and perhaps receive direct
contributions.  Well then, it might be smart for Digital Globe,
Mapbox, or another organization to setup a crowdfunding section of
their websites.  A 501C section of the said firms could collect money
to fund some of these efforts without the overhead of crowd funding
sites.  The reward would be great publicity. More that likely, there
still will be costs that cannot be absorbed by goodwill alone.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Greg Morgan  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> >
> > I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and
> > make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing
> > outside of their region.
>
> ...
> >
> >
> > Simon
>
>
>  Simon,
>
> This is one of the most positive things that I've heard you say about
> a local community deciding what to do!  Thank you.
>
> The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from
> Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and
> more imperialism.  There is a smack of what's good for Germany is good
> for everyone local mapping group out there.  Germany is about the size
> of Montana USA.  Germany has a population of about 89 million people.
> Montana has a population of around one million people.  Arm chair
> mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases.  The
> whole meetup/pub mapping event just won't scale in areas like Montana.
> I laugh when you want me to run out and GPS every node that I put on
> the map where map density isn't there like in Germany.  Moreover,
> there's this idea that consumer grade GPS devices are so much more
> accurate compared to imagery. 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and
> make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing
> outside of their region.

...
>
>
> Simon


 Simon,

This is one of the most positive things that I've heard you say about
a local community deciding what to do!  Thank you.

The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from
Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and
more imperialism.  There is a smack of what's good for Germany is good
for everyone local mapping group out there.  Germany is about the size
of Montana USA.  Germany has a population of about 89 million people.
Montana has a population of around one million people.  Arm chair
mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases.  The
whole meetup/pub mapping event just won't scale in areas like Montana.
I laugh when you want me to run out and GPS every node that I put on
the map where map density isn't there like in Germany.  Moreover,
there's this idea that consumer grade GPS devices are so much more
accurate compared to imagery.  What I have now is a _useful_ map using
all these tools regardless of their perceived accuracy.  Any way or
idea that builds upon the existing useful map is a great idea.

What I find interesting is that at least one of links shows Bénin
mappers using paper and pencil survey work.  It sounds like they want
better imagery to complement paper survey work with arm chair mapping.
Both types of mapping complement each other.  In both cases, errors
can be introduced into the map.  So what.  We are an Open Source
project with the idea of "release early and release often".  In
addition, OSM has a wonderful complement of tools to help correct any
mistakes.
https://projeteof.org/blog/crowdfunding-openstreetmap-au-benin-275km%C2%B2-dimagerie-satellite-haute-resolution-pour-cotonou-ce-1er-mai-2016/

When I read stories like this from MapBox...
"...And when we can make it better, we flag the area as a priority
collect. This creates a system where developers using the map SDK will
get the most updated imagery specifically where their users need it.
https://www.mapbox.com/blog/satellite-imagery-updates-telemetry/
...I get it.  MapBox is company that has to serve priority markets.
However, if all the the developers are in rich urban areas of the
world, then other areas may not see new imagery.  MapBox needs to pay
the bills to keep the lights on. MapBox may not be the solution in
this case.

>John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%, that's 
>a notable difference.
>If I donate $100 to a charity the net cost to me is $60 and $100 is more or 
>less available at the end.
> If I donate $60 to the crowdsourcing then $55 arrives at the end.  So if we 
> can get creative with a charity
> the money goes further.  Different western countries have different rules but 
> basically if it can be channeled
> through a charity more cash ends up on the ground.

So don't contribute to the crowdfunding effort.  Many businesses will
take something that was purchased for $50 and sell it for $100.  They
have to cover overhead and make a profit to stay in business. A loss
of $5 to overhead for $60 dollars sounds like a very efficient method
to channel funds to where it is needed.  For  example, I don't donate
to Unicef. I used to go around and collect pennies for that group when
I was young.  It was disturbing to find out that only one US cent of
each dollar actually made it to the children in need.  I don't know if
they improved their record from those days but in my case the damage
was done.  The crowd funding example that has been cited is not the
same kind-of overhead.

> nicolas chavent  wrote
> There is a local OSM group active in Benin since mid 2013,
> This group is skilled they got trained via (capacity building missions run
> by the collective Projet EOF) and had been always self training and growing
> their skills, growing their community and training Academic, Benin Red Cross
> Volunteers, Civil workers from local government, folks from the local tech
> scene etc...
> This group has a few equipments at hand,
> They share a co-working space (Blolab) in Cotonou with other tech actors,
> They have been active in their country (several places and various mapping
> project) and in Western Africa through regional 3 to 4 weeks long capacity
> building missions involving a lot of field and remote mapping work
> They operate mostly on a voluntary basis with low means and they grow their
> map and their community.
> They decided to crowdfund for these 275km2 high res imagery in Cotonou
> because this has been blocking them and that a few additional GPS Units will
> not make the difference, but this imagery will do!

 I don't see what the problem is.  Bénin mappers have already
performed an analysis of the problem.  I don't see why they cannot

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Enock Seth Nyamador]

Greetings,

Glad to see many views and comments coming up on this topic.

Best,

- Enock
​
OSMGhana
​ | ​
​
UMaT, Tarkwa
enockseth.github.io

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 11:50 AM, nicolas chavent  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> There is a local OSM group active in Benin since mid 2013,
> This group is skilled they got trained via (capacity building missions run
> by the collective Projet EOF) and had been always self training and growing
> their skills, growing their community and training Academic, Benin Red
> Cross Volunteers, Civil workers from local government, folks from the local
> tech scene etc...
> This group has a few equipments at hand,
> They share a co-working space (Blolab) in Cotonou with other tech actors,
> They have been active in their country (several places and various mapping
> project) and in Western Africa through regional 3 to 4 weeks long capacity
> building missions involving a lot of field and remote mapping work
> They operate mostly on a voluntary basis with low means and they grow
> their map and their community.
> They decided to crowdfund for these 275km2 high res imagery in Cotonou
> because this has been blocking them and that a few additional GPS Units
> will not make the difference, but this imagery will do!
>
> Since the Haiti quake, community empowerment is at the center of the
> agenda of humanitarian and development actors as shown by the Katmandu
> Living Lab experience in the Nepal Earthquake (praised in mainstream and
> professionals see The Guardian (1)) or a glance at the agenda of the World
> Humanitarian Summit will gather this coming May in Istambul. Benin (but
> also Sénégal, Mali, Togo, Burkina, Niger, Ivory Coast) show the example of
> organized OpenStreetMap collectives and communities. They are building
> their map and their community without the support of charities, or
> supporting charities, local / central government, academic, development/
> humanitarian actors.
>
> All this is happening in Western Africa as the result of capacity building
> programs that I started for HOT US Inc in July 2013 with the support of the
> Organisation Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) and then since Fall
> 2013 outside of HOT US Inc within the collective Projet EOF (mixing folks
> from French speaking countries from the "north" & "south"). All those
> actions have been conceived and carried out with very low cost budget
> schemes (under which HOT US Inc decided not to operate) to support the
> emerging of local OSM communities and this has been working thanks to
> experienced persons (there are many of those in the ProjetEOF who by the
> way build the HOT Project and HOT US Inc in the early days) and
> enthusisasm.
>
> Now that a local OSM community like Benin is organized, why can't this
> community act autonomously, why should it resort to a charity to map their
> town? Why should it inform and discuss only in the hot mailing list and not
> on the talk list where the community life of OSM is happening? Your email
> cast doubts or rise questions about how a charity work with local
> communities, about partnerships and partners roles.
>
> With a true respect for local OSM communities groups, no doubt that there
> is some potential to fulfill from the projects you mentioned (and that are
> not new to OSM Bénin as well as Projet EOF folks), let's see realize that
> potential but not by speaking on top of those communities and by not
> recognizing their strengths.
>
> Distributing additional Digital Globe or Mapbox high resolution satellite
> imagery in other Areas Of Interest (AOIs) of Benin and Weestern Africa
> outside of those 275 km2 of Cotonou almost secured can be a first step.
>
> Thanks
> Nicolas
>
>
>
>
> (1) :
> http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/apr/25/could-mapping-tech-revolutionise-disaster-response?CMP=share_btn_tw
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, john whelan 
> wrote:
>
>> >John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%,
>> that's a notable difference.
>>
>> If I donate $100 to a charity the net cost to me is $60 and $100 is more
>> or less available at the end.  If I donate $60 to the crowdsourcing then
>> $55 arrives at the end.  So if we can get creative with a charity the money
>> goes further.  Different western countries have different rules but
>> basically if it can be channeled through a charity more cash ends up on the
>> ground.
>>
>> West Africa, WHO are vacinating against polio is either there or not far
>> away, they need maps where do people live.  MSF have HOT projects around
>> that area.  Have a dig in HOT and you'll see sponsored projects around.
>> All the HOT projects suffer from having not that many people on the ground
>> for street names etc.  The charities have purchased image data before but
>> also DG and Mapbox have been very helpful to them.  If you're serious
>> about wanting to improve the state of the map in Bénin 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[nicolas chavent]

Hi John,

There is a local OSM group active in Benin since mid 2013,
This group is skilled they got trained via (capacity building missions run
by the collective Projet EOF) and had been always self training and growing
their skills, growing their community and training Academic, Benin Red
Cross Volunteers, Civil workers from local government, folks from the local
tech scene etc...
This group has a few equipments at hand,
They share a co-working space (Blolab) in Cotonou with other tech actors,
They have been active in their country (several places and various mapping
project) and in Western Africa through regional 3 to 4 weeks long capacity
building missions involving a lot of field and remote mapping work
They operate mostly on a voluntary basis with low means and they grow their
map and their community.
They decided to crowdfund for these 275km2 high res imagery in Cotonou
because this has been blocking them and that a few additional GPS Units
will not make the difference, but this imagery will do!

Since the Haiti quake, community empowerment is at the center of the agenda
of humanitarian and development actors as shown by the Katmandu Living Lab
experience in the Nepal Earthquake (praised in mainstream and professionals
see The Guardian (1)) or a glance at the agenda of the World Humanitarian
Summit will gather this coming May in Istambul. Benin (but also Sénégal,
Mali, Togo, Burkina, Niger, Ivory Coast) show the example of organized
OpenStreetMap collectives and communities. They are building their map and
their community without the support of charities, or supporting charities,
local / central government, academic, development/ humanitarian actors.

All this is happening in Western Africa as the result of capacity building
programs that I started for HOT US Inc in July 2013 with the support of the
Organisation Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) and then since Fall
2013 outside of HOT US Inc within the collective Projet EOF (mixing folks
from French speaking countries from the "north" & "south"). All those
actions have been conceived and carried out with very low cost budget
schemes (under which HOT US Inc decided not to operate) to support the
emerging of local OSM communities and this has been working thanks to
experienced persons (there are many of those in the ProjetEOF who by the
way build the HOT Project and HOT US Inc in the early days) and
enthusisasm.

Now that a local OSM community like Benin is organized, why can't this
community act autonomously, why should it resort to a charity to map their
town? Why should it inform and discuss only in the hot mailing list and not
on the talk list where the community life of OSM is happening? Your email
cast doubts or rise questions about how a charity work with local
communities, about partnerships and partners roles.

With a true respect for local OSM communities groups, no doubt that there
is some potential to fulfill from the projects you mentioned (and that are
not new to OSM Bénin as well as Projet EOF folks), let's see realize that
potential but not by speaking on top of those communities and by not
recognizing their strengths.

Distributing additional Digital Globe or Mapbox high resolution satellite
imagery in other Areas Of Interest (AOIs) of Benin and Weestern Africa
outside of those 275 km2 of Cotonou almost secured can be a first step.

Thanks
Nicolas




(1) :
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/apr/25/could-mapping-tech-revolutionise-disaster-response?CMP=share_btn_tw

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> >John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%,
> that's a notable difference.
>
> If I donate $100 to a charity the net cost to me is $60 and $100 is more
> or less available at the end.  If I donate $60 to the crowdsourcing then
> $55 arrives at the end.  So if we can get creative with a charity the money
> goes further.  Different western countries have different rules but
> basically if it can be channeled through a charity more cash ends up on the
> ground.
>
> West Africa, WHO are vacinating against polio is either there or not far
> away, they need maps where do people live.  MSF have HOT projects around
> that area.  Have a dig in HOT and you'll see sponsored projects around.
> All the HOT projects suffer from having not that many people on the ground
> for street names etc.  The charities have purchased image data before but
> also DG and Mapbox have been very helpful to them.  If you're serious
> about wanting to improve the state of the map in Bénin then working with
> a charity might help both sides.
>
> I note there is HOT mapping in Togo which is close by at the moment
> "Bâtiments, routes, chemins, zones résidentielles" which I assume is the
> sort of thing you're after.  Have a chat to the organizers of that project
> and see which charities are involved if any.  There are four projects in
> Bénin at the moment.

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[john whelan]

>John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%,
that's a notable difference.

If I donate $100 to a charity the net cost to me is $60 and $100 is more or
less available at the end.  If I donate $60 to the crowdsourcing then $55
arrives at the end.  So if we can get creative with a charity the money
goes further.  Different western countries have different rules but
basically if it can be channeled through a charity more cash ends up on the
ground.

West Africa, WHO are vacinating against polio is either there or not far
away, they need maps where do people live.  MSF have HOT projects around
that area.  Have a dig in HOT and you'll see sponsored projects around.
All the HOT projects suffer from having not that many people on the ground
for street names etc.  The charities have purchased image data before but
also DG and Mapbox have been very helpful to them.  If you're serious about
wanting to improve the state of the map in Bénin then working with a
charity might help both sides.

I note there is HOT mapping in Togo which is close by at the moment
"Bâtiments, routes, chemins, zones résidentielles" which I assume is the
sort of thing you're after.  Have a chat to the organizers of that project
and see which charities are involved if any.  There are four projects in
Bénin at the moment.

Currently for Cotonou there is some Mapbox imagery not the greatest but I
think you could squeeze a few more highways etc out of it.

The HOT mailing list is probably the place to start and to be honest I
thunk that is where the discussion should be taking place, but currently
they're distracted by a couple of earthquakes.  I think the most effective
mapping comes out of a mixture of local knowledge and armchair mapping
where the map is blank.  Some of the charities are very well organised MSF
for example have developed expertise in the optimum size of HOT project and
complexity.  They also have tame validators and that seems to be key to
getting a HOT project completed in a reasonable time frame.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data is
worth reading through.

The Treasury Board Canada might seem an unlikely source of assistance but
they have been instrumental in creating a open data license that is
acceptable to OSM and are working with at least one African country to use
the same license.  I think Jo has been importing a large number of schools
complete with names in one African country, it took a considerable amount
of time to get the license sorted out.  I understand if you have enough
mappers on the ground everything can get mapped but for quickness sometimes
a few high quality imports that are carefully imported can have benefits.

So if you can raise the cash fine but if you can get the imagery in other
ways perhaps a few GPS units or a few smart phones for collecting POI data
might be an acceptable way of spending the cash raised.  If your crowd
funding doesn't quite raise enough cash then sometimes there are other ways
to get the imagery.

Cheerio John



On 25 April 2016 at 18:26, nicolas chavent 
wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Wow! None of the folks from the Association OSM Bénin nor those from the
> collective ProjetEOF who worked with the Benin mappers on this crowdfunding
> for imagery on 275km2 of Cotonou would have expected that email traffic.
>
> Great to see this talk on the talk list!
> Great also to read that this talk may develop into future new creative
> ways for Digital Globe and Map Box Satellite to assist OSM in Benin (many
> places outside of Cotonou which is likely to be handled through this
> crowdfunding) and in Western Africa (many places also) not to mention other
> places of this earth. I am not sure Christoph, if Kevin and Mikel will meet
> your criteria of 100% opendata imagery, surely this would be creative and
> awesome.
>
> A couple of points from my side, prior the mappers from Benin will talk
> and share their perspectives on this topic and the reasons that lead them
> to crowdfund for Cotonou and to bring this project to its end.
>
> At reading this thread in my late evening, comes first the surprise, that
> Simon puts up nicely, I am re-using his very words:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and
> make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing
> outside of their region. Surely is must be their prerogative to decide how
> best to get imagery for their area, if at all (I do suspect that they will
> welcome alternative offers, but that is obviously up to them). Further I
> don't quite follow Christoph's argument. There is very very little imagery
> used in OSM that is available on open (data) terms. As long as the results
> of tracing etc  are essentially unencumbered nobody seems to have had
> issues with using non-free sources starting off with yahoo in 2007 and yes
> we've paid with money and in other ways for imagery in 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[nicolas chavent]

Hi there,

Wow! None of the folks from the Association OSM Bénin nor those from the
collective ProjetEOF who worked with the Benin mappers on this crowdfunding
for imagery on 275km2 of Cotonou would have expected that email traffic.

Great to see this talk on the talk list!
Great also to read that this talk may develop into future new creative ways
for Digital Globe and Map Box Satellite to assist OSM in Benin (many places
outside of Cotonou which is likely to be handled through this crowdfunding)
and in Western Africa (many places also) not to mention other places of
this earth. I am not sure Christoph, if Kevin and Mikel will meet your
criteria of 100% opendata imagery, surely this would be creative and
awesome.

A couple of points from my side, prior the mappers from Benin will talk and
share their perspectives on this topic and the reasons that lead them to
crowdfund for Cotonou and to bring this project to its end.

At reading this thread in my late evening, comes first the surprise, that
Simon puts up nicely, I am re-using his very words:












*I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and
make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing
outside of their region. Surely is must be their prerogative to decide how
best to get imagery for their area, if at all (I do suspect that they will
welcome alternative offers, but that is obviously up to them). Further I
don't quite follow Christoph's argument. There is very very little imagery
used in OSM that is available on open (data) terms. As long as the results
of tracing etc  are essentially unencumbered nobody seems to have had
issues with using non-free sources starting off with yahoo in 2007 and yes
we've paid with money and in other ways for imagery in many places.*

Frederik, field work is highly valued and practised in Benin and Western
Africa as reflected in mappers stats, lists, wiki, social media (Twitter
and Facebook) of mappers and local groups. The Benin guys as emailed have
been actively mapping via field survey and remote mapping in Benin and
Western Africa over the past 3 years. They have been active also in Cotonou
through this time, with their own means, voluntarily in a poor country.
They figured out that this situation had to change in Cotonou and got
organized. One thing, you can be positive about, is that access to high res
imagery over Cotonou will not kill their appetite for field work.

Christoph you are right. Yes, it would have been better to acquire an
imagery that could be fully distributed in opendata and not for tracing in
OSM only the way this work for Bing, MapBox, specific humanitarian contexts
(some Charter activations, the Imagery To The Crowd/ Map Give program of
the US State Department) but this was out of reach. Shall the Benin folks
have to keep surveying voluntarily the economic capital of their country
instead of making the current compromise which has many precedents in OSM?
Although the imagery is not fully served and distributed in opendata,
through the generating of OSM data over Cotonou, it will mark a
breakthrough for the local opendata movement by making the OSM base map of
the city available to all. Like in many other places, this eventually will
foster over time via a critical mass approach, the opening of geographical
information. This is in that sense that opendata is meant in the email,
blog post and project description in Ulule. Last, I agree with your idea
(seeking full opendata imagery) but think that in making it happening one
shall differentiate territories and contexts and that Cotonou, Benin is not
ideal.

John, Ulule does not charge 40%, the fees reasonably amount to 7 or 8%,
that's a notable difference.

John, Kevin and Mikel. Without commenting any further Simon first
paragraph. Technically, what you are proposing (*using the crowdfunding
money for other purposes*) may not even be possible or at least is not a
good practise (not to say more). This may result into back clashes and
distrust with the over 56 people who funded this project (*the purchase of
high resolution imagery over Cotonou for OSM Benin*) or a bad record with
Ulule. This can be negative for OSM Benin folks in the future shall they
decide to crowdfund again for a similar or a different need.

Kevin and Mikel, the @OSMBenin twitter account indicates that
- your offers to assist OSM Bénin on Cotonou with imagery on the behalf of
Digital Globe and Mapbox have been well heard.
- the imagery need over that part of Cotonou will be addressed via this
crowdfunding.
- OSM Benin is keen on submitting other Areas Of Interest (AOIs) in Benin
and in Western African in coordination with other Western African local OSM
groups, they indicate that they are working on a uMap with priority AOIs.
This could be a creative and positive development of this crowdfunding.

Last, John which charities have you in minds to come to Benin and do the
field work Kevin alluded to for the amount OSM Benin 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 apr 2016, alle ore 20:41, Christoph Hormann 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> what is most readily available and most convenient for them and there 
> is little incentive in providing alternatives just because they are 
> open if they don't provide significant advantages for practical use.


regarding Bing aerial imagery, other imagery will likely be better referenced, 
at least this is my experience around here, even if the resolution of Bing 
might be higher.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Simon Poole]

Am 25.04.2016 um 20:41 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
> I tried to clarify my standpoint in my reply to Frederik.
>
> In addition i also think open imagery is currently severely underused in 
> OSM mapping due to convenient availability of not really open but free 
> to use in OSM imagery in Bing and Mapbox.  This applies both to high 
> resolution aerial images available from local providers under open data 
> terms - you know the frequent complaints by locals that armchair 
> mappers try to 'correct' local mapping based on outdated Bing imagery - 
> and lower resolution open satellite images which are rarely used at all 
> except for the 15 year old base data in Bing despite offering a lot of 
> information useful for mapping.  I find this regrettable in some way - 
> mappers should be aware of and have access to open imagery sources that 
> are available as much as possible - but also understandable, people use 
> what is most readily available and most convenient for them and there 
> is little incentive in providing alternatives just because they are 
> open if they don't provide significant advantages for practical use.

Actually this has, at least on the browser embedded editor sid,e
improved quite a bit. For example the Canton of Zürich released 10cm
nominal resolution imagery early this year and at least in iD you will
get this imagery as default now if you edit there, just as you will get
the imagery from the Canton Aargau here (which while essentially just a
service fee, we did pay CHF 200 for). While I'm not particularly happy
with just a flag to indicate the preferable imagery for a region, it
does work most of the time.

Simon



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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 25 April 2016, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> Further I don't quite follow Christoph's argument. There is very very
> little imagery used in OSM that is available on open (data) terms. As
> long as the results of tracing etc  are essentially unencumbered
> nobody seems to have had  issues with using non-free sources starting
> off with yahoo in 2007 and yes we've paid with money and in other
> ways for imagery in many places.

I tried to clarify my standpoint in my reply to Frederik.

In addition i also think open imagery is currently severely underused in 
OSM mapping due to convenient availability of not really open but free 
to use in OSM imagery in Bing and Mapbox.  This applies both to high 
resolution aerial images available from local providers under open data 
terms - you know the frequent complaints by locals that armchair 
mappers try to 'correct' local mapping based on outdated Bing imagery - 
and lower resolution open satellite images which are rarely used at all 
except for the 15 year old base data in Bing despite offering a lot of 
information useful for mapping.  I find this regrettable in some way - 
mappers should be aware of and have access to open imagery sources that 
are available as much as possible - but also understandable, people use 
what is most readily available and most convenient for them and there 
is little incentive in providing alternatives just because they are 
open if they don't provide significant advantages for practical use.

And you are right - we should not be so arrogant to think we know things 
better than the local community in Benin.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 25 April 2016, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> > You are not seriously suggesting that paying a proprietary data
> > vendor for a likely restrictive license to use some imagery for
> > mapping in OSM is in support of the idea of open data?
>
> I, too, am wary of this initiative because of the underlying idea
> that working without aerial imagery is a waste of time. IMHO the
> non-availability of aerial imagery primarily means that there will be
> less armchair mapping which I consider a good thing (but I know that
> my position on that is a minority position among humanitarian
> mappers).
>
> Having said that, paying for propietary imagery isn't without
> precedent in OSM, see for example http://wiki.openstreetmap.org and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WissensWert/40_-_Luftbilder_f%C3%BCr_
>OpenStreetMap

Yes, given the inherent ambiguities in the matter my statement was 
probably a bit too undifferentiated.

Paying for licensing commercial imagery and then making them available 
for OSM can be good for OSM and therefore open data of course - this is 
what Bing and Mapbox are doing on a significant scale for example but 
generally the application for mapping in OSM is only a secondary use 
here.  On the other hand if the community tries to acquire funds for 
image licenses themselves for the sole purpose of mapping this is 
highly questionable and i am not sure if i can imagine a situation 
where i would consider the gain by this justifies both the expense (the 
money could be used otherwise) and channeling money into non-open data 
production.

Another perspective i consider important here: the open data movement 
and in particular OSM have been very successful in breaking the 
dominance of proprietary data and achieving a significant stand in the 
overall market of map data, in particular human infrastructure mapping 
(roads, buildings, POIs, addresses etc.).  In the field of imagery OTOH 
open data has - although clearly on the rise these days - still a much 
weaker standing.  This has reasons of course, like the significant 
upfront investments necessary to produce this kind of data, but solid 
support from the already much more successful OSM world by emphasizing 
the need and desire for truly open image data would certainly help this 
sector a lot.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Simon Poole]

I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and
make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing
outside of their region. Surely is must be their prerogative to decide
how best to get imagery for their area, if at all (I do suspect that
they will welcome alternative offers, but that is obviously up to them).

Further I don't quite follow Christoph's argument. There is very very
little imagery used in OSM that is available on open (data) terms. As
long as the results of tracing etc  are essentially unencumbered nobody
seems to have had  issues with using non-free sources starting off with
yahoo in 2007 and yes we've paid with money and in other ways for
imagery in many places.

Simon




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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/25/2016 07:02 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> see for example http://wiki.openstreetmap.org and

Gah, broke the link -

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Gaza#Commercial_aerial_photography

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Frederik Ramm]

Christoph,

On 04/25/2016 06:46 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> You are not seriously suggesting that paying a proprietary data vendor 
> for a likely restrictive license to use some imagery for mapping in OSM 
> is in support of the idea of open data?

I, too, am wary of this initiative because of the underlying idea that
working without aerial imagery is a waste of time. IMHO the
non-availability of aerial imagery primarily means that there will be
less armchair mapping which I consider a good thing (but I know that my
position on that is a minority position among humanitarian mappers).

Having said that, paying for propietary imagery isn't without precedent
in OSM, see for example http://wiki.openstreetmap.org and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WissensWert/40_-_Luftbilder_f%C3%BCr_OpenStreetMap

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 25 April 2016, nicolas chavent wrote:
> This is an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge
> OpenStreetMap and opendata impact in Cotonou and Benin [...]

You are not seriously suggesting that paying a proprietary data vendor 
for a likely restrictive license to use some imagery for mapping in OSM 
is in support of the idea of open data?

If there is acute need for better imagery in a certain area and classic 
mapping on the ground is not a reasonable alternative (why is that?) i 
would suggest to approach satellite image providers if they can offer 
help - you can see there have already been reactions in that direction.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Mikel Maron]

That's awesome Kevin. Totally agree, funds can be used for mapping parties and 
motorcycle fuel! Let me know if Mapbox can help here too, willing to look into 
it. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Monday, April 25, 2016 12:01 PM, Kevin Bullock 
 wrote:
 
 

 Hi all - I am working with OSM-Benin on behalf of DG to see if we can do 
something creative; I would rather see this crowdfunding be used for on the 
ground verification resources.

Best, Kevin Bullock




On 4/25/16, 9:25 AM, "althio"  wrote:

>John,
>
>You can't blame people for looking for the best imagery around Cotonou, Bénin.
>We are talking of the largest city in this country, 700 000+ inhabitants.
>
>I don't find it very reasonable to propose another project 1000 km away.
>The local mappers want to map their city, that's all.
>
>Best,
>
>- althio
>
>
>On 25 April 2016 at 16:31, john whelan  wrote:
>> There seems to be fairly reasonable free mapbox imagery of this area
>> available.  There is a lot of very reasonable African imagery available that
>> has not yet been mapped.
>>
>> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1087 is an example.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 25 April 2016 at 10:17, nicolas chavent 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Below is the English translation of an email sent first to the
>>> hot-francophone mailing list. It focuses on the first crowdfunding 100%
>>> directed to OpenStreetMap in Western Africa. The project is run by the local
>>> OSM association (OSM Bénin) with the support of the collective Projet Espace
>>> OSM Francophone (ProjetEOF) to purchase 275km² high resolution imagery over
>>> Cotonou, Benin economic capital.
>>>
>>> Enjoy the read and shall you be interested, join us! The crowfunding
>>> closes May1, 2016: in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%). This
>>> is an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
>>> opendata impact in Cotonou and Benin by helping significatively the mapping
>>> of Cotonou by the Cotonou mappers who can then be supported remotely by the
>>> global OSM community and the Western African groups in the first place.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin et the collective
>>> ProjetEOF
>>>
>>>
>>> = Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution
>>> satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016! =
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> This crowdfunding "Imagerie Satellite pour OSM Benin" ([1],[2]) is lead by
>>> the Association OpenStreetMap Bénin (OSMBénin) [3] with the support of the
>>> collective Projet Espace OpenStreetMap Francophone (ProjetEOF) [4]. It aims
>>> at purchasing around 275 km² high resolution imagery over Cotonou in a
>>> license which allows for creating into OpenStreetMap geographical
>>> information  about building, road network, hydrography and landuse.
>>>
>>> The mappers from Benin are active creating geographical data in
>>> OpenStreetMap and thus improving the Free Map of this World via mapathons
>>> [5] field data collections [6], as well as conducting information and
>>> outreach work tied to heavy training in GIS (QGIS) and mapping with OSM [7].
>>> Unfortunately they are missing on Cotonou high resolution imagery via the
>>> Bing and MapBox layers. This forces the Benin OSM community to map Cotonou -
>>> Benin economic capital - through field surveys only (GPS, Mobile phones and
>>> FieldPapers), a long time and money intensive work. This takes us back to
>>> the early ages of OpenStreetMap prior its members had access to high
>>> resolution imagery through agreements with Yahoo, Microsoft Bing or
>>> benefited from opendata programs.
>>>
>>> Shall this crowdfunding works well, this would be a major breakthrough for
>>> the growth of OpenStreetMap in Cotonou and in Benin, as a matter of fact,
>>> with this imagery purchased, hosted and accesible:
>>>  - Not only the mappers from Bénin would be more efficient mapping Cotonou
>>> and in a position to dedicate more time to non mapping activities such
>>> information, outreach, building partnerships while continuing and expanding
>>> the activities they had been carrying out in the rest of the country since
>>> 2013 as one can read from the "Infolettre OSM Bénin" [8].
>>>  - But for mapping Cotonou, they could benefit from the support of the
>>> global OpenStreetMap community and specifically the Western African local
>>> groups with whom strong relations have been established and numerous joint
>>> mapping activities have been organized since 2013.
>>>
>>> The crowfunding closes in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%),
>>> an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
>>> opendata impact by helping significatively the mapping of Cotonou by the
>>> Cotonou mappers with the support of the global OSM community and the Western
>>> African groups in the first place.
>>>
>>> To check 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[John Whelan]

My thoughts would run along the lines of working with an existing 
charity to put some feet on the ground and more detail in the maps.  
That way the donated dollars go further, crowd sourcing takes a 
percentage, in Canada there is a 40% tax break on charitable giving so 
its stretches the available dollars more.


It needs some creative thinking to pull it together.  There are some 
charities that are now looking at supporting straight infrastructure by 
local government at a local level and this would seem a natural fit.


Cheerio John

Kevin Bullock 
April 25, 2016 11:58 AM
Hi all - I am working with OSM-Benin on behalf of DG to see if we can 
do something creative; I would rather see this crowdfunding be used 
for on the ground verification resources.


Best, Kevin Bullock





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althio 
April 25, 2016 11:25 AM
John,

You can't blame people for looking for the best imagery around 
Cotonou, Bénin.

We are talking of the largest city in this country, 700 000+ inhabitants.

I don't find it very reasonable to propose another project 1000 km away.
The local mappers want to map their city, that's all.

Best,

- althio



--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[Kevin Bullock]

Hi all - I am working with OSM-Benin on behalf of DG to see if we can do 
something creative; I would rather see this crowdfunding be used for on the 
ground verification resources.

Best, Kevin Bullock




On 4/25/16, 9:25 AM, "althio"  wrote:

>John,
>
>You can't blame people for looking for the best imagery around Cotonou, Bénin.
>We are talking of the largest city in this country, 700 000+ inhabitants.
>
>I don't find it very reasonable to propose another project 1000 km away.
>The local mappers want to map their city, that's all.
>
>Best,
>
>- althio
>
>
>On 25 April 2016 at 16:31, john whelan  wrote:
>> There seems to be fairly reasonable free mapbox imagery of this area
>> available.  There is a lot of very reasonable African imagery available that
>> has not yet been mapped.
>>
>> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1087 is an example.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 25 April 2016 at 10:17, nicolas chavent 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Below is the English translation of an email sent first to the
>>> hot-francophone mailing list. It focuses on the first crowdfunding 100%
>>> directed to OpenStreetMap in Western Africa. The project is run by the local
>>> OSM association (OSM Bénin) with the support of the collective Projet Espace
>>> OSM Francophone (ProjetEOF) to purchase 275km² high resolution imagery over
>>> Cotonou, Benin economic capital.
>>>
>>> Enjoy the read and shall you be interested, join us! The crowfunding
>>> closes May1, 2016: in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%). This
>>> is an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
>>> opendata impact in Cotonou and Benin by helping significatively the mapping
>>> of Cotonou by the Cotonou mappers who can then be supported remotely by the
>>> global OSM community and the Western African groups in the first place.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin et the collective
>>> ProjetEOF
>>>
>>>
>>> = Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution
>>> satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016! =
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> This crowdfunding "Imagerie Satellite pour OSM Benin" ([1],[2]) is lead by
>>> the Association OpenStreetMap Bénin (OSMBénin) [3] with the support of the
>>> collective Projet Espace OpenStreetMap Francophone (ProjetEOF) [4]. It aims
>>> at purchasing around 275 km² high resolution imagery over Cotonou in a
>>> license which allows for creating into OpenStreetMap geographical
>>> information  about building, road network, hydrography and landuse.
>>>
>>> The mappers from Benin are active creating geographical data in
>>> OpenStreetMap and thus improving the Free Map of this World via mapathons
>>> [5] field data collections [6], as well as conducting information and
>>> outreach work tied to heavy training in GIS (QGIS) and mapping with OSM [7].
>>> Unfortunately they are missing on Cotonou high resolution imagery via the
>>> Bing and MapBox layers. This forces the Benin OSM community to map Cotonou -
>>> Benin economic capital - through field surveys only (GPS, Mobile phones and
>>> FieldPapers), a long time and money intensive work. This takes us back to
>>> the early ages of OpenStreetMap prior its members had access to high
>>> resolution imagery through agreements with Yahoo, Microsoft Bing or
>>> benefited from opendata programs.
>>>
>>> Shall this crowdfunding works well, this would be a major breakthrough for
>>> the growth of OpenStreetMap in Cotonou and in Benin, as a matter of fact,
>>> with this imagery purchased, hosted and accesible:
>>>  - Not only the mappers from Bénin would be more efficient mapping Cotonou
>>> and in a position to dedicate more time to non mapping activities such
>>> information, outreach, building partnerships while continuing and expanding
>>> the activities they had been carrying out in the rest of the country since
>>> 2013 as one can read from the "Infolettre OSM Bénin" [8].
>>>  - But for mapping Cotonou, they could benefit from the support of the
>>> global OpenStreetMap community and specifically the Western African local
>>> groups with whom strong relations have been established and numerous joint
>>> mapping activities have been organized since 2013.
>>>
>>> The crowfunding closes in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%),
>>> an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
>>> opendata impact by helping significatively the mapping of Cotonou by the
>>> Cotonou mappers with the support of the global OSM community and the Western
>>> African groups in the first place.
>>>
>>> To check the status of this crowdfunding project, stay tuned to the Ulule
>>> platform, the OSM lists, the Wiki site of the OSM project in Bénin, blogs
>>> and social media used by ProjetEOF (@ProjetEOF), OSMBénin (@OSMBénin) and
>>> other Western African OSM collectives.
>>>
>>> Nicolas on the behalf of the 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[althio]

John,

You can't blame people for looking for the best imagery around Cotonou, Bénin.
We are talking of the largest city in this country, 700 000+ inhabitants.

I don't find it very reasonable to propose another project 1000 km away.
The local mappers want to map their city, that's all.

Best,

- althio


On 25 April 2016 at 16:31, john whelan  wrote:
> There seems to be fairly reasonable free mapbox imagery of this area
> available.  There is a lot of very reasonable African imagery available that
> has not yet been mapped.
>
> http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1087 is an example.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 25 April 2016 at 10:17, nicolas chavent 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Below is the English translation of an email sent first to the
>> hot-francophone mailing list. It focuses on the first crowdfunding 100%
>> directed to OpenStreetMap in Western Africa. The project is run by the local
>> OSM association (OSM Bénin) with the support of the collective Projet Espace
>> OSM Francophone (ProjetEOF) to purchase 275km² high resolution imagery over
>> Cotonou, Benin economic capital.
>>
>> Enjoy the read and shall you be interested, join us! The crowfunding
>> closes May1, 2016: in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%). This
>> is an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
>> opendata impact in Cotonou and Benin by helping significatively the mapping
>> of Cotonou by the Cotonou mappers who can then be supported remotely by the
>> global OSM community and the Western African groups in the first place.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin et the collective
>> ProjetEOF
>>
>>
>> = Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution
>> satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016! =
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This crowdfunding "Imagerie Satellite pour OSM Benin" ([1],[2]) is lead by
>> the Association OpenStreetMap Bénin (OSMBénin) [3] with the support of the
>> collective Projet Espace OpenStreetMap Francophone (ProjetEOF) [4]. It aims
>> at purchasing around 275 km² high resolution imagery over Cotonou in a
>> license which allows for creating into OpenStreetMap geographical
>> information  about building, road network, hydrography and landuse.
>>
>> The mappers from Benin are active creating geographical data in
>> OpenStreetMap and thus improving the Free Map of this World via mapathons
>> [5] field data collections [6], as well as conducting information and
>> outreach work tied to heavy training in GIS (QGIS) and mapping with OSM [7].
>> Unfortunately they are missing on Cotonou high resolution imagery via the
>> Bing and MapBox layers. This forces the Benin OSM community to map Cotonou -
>> Benin economic capital - through field surveys only (GPS, Mobile phones and
>> FieldPapers), a long time and money intensive work. This takes us back to
>> the early ages of OpenStreetMap prior its members had access to high
>> resolution imagery through agreements with Yahoo, Microsoft Bing or
>> benefited from opendata programs.
>>
>> Shall this crowdfunding works well, this would be a major breakthrough for
>> the growth of OpenStreetMap in Cotonou and in Benin, as a matter of fact,
>> with this imagery purchased, hosted and accesible:
>>  - Not only the mappers from Bénin would be more efficient mapping Cotonou
>> and in a position to dedicate more time to non mapping activities such
>> information, outreach, building partnerships while continuing and expanding
>> the activities they had been carrying out in the rest of the country since
>> 2013 as one can read from the "Infolettre OSM Bénin" [8].
>>  - But for mapping Cotonou, they could benefit from the support of the
>> global OpenStreetMap community and specifically the Western African local
>> groups with whom strong relations have been established and numerous joint
>> mapping activities have been organized since 2013.
>>
>> The crowfunding closes in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%),
>> an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
>> opendata impact by helping significatively the mapping of Cotonou by the
>> Cotonou mappers with the support of the global OSM community and the Western
>> African groups in the first place.
>>
>> To check the status of this crowdfunding project, stay tuned to the Ulule
>> platform, the OSM lists, the Wiki site of the OSM project in Bénin, blogs
>> and social media used by ProjetEOF (@ProjetEOF), OSMBénin (@OSMBénin) and
>> other Western African OSM collectives.
>>
>> Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin and the collective
>> Projet EOF.
>>
>> [1] : http://fr.ulule.com/imagerie-cotonou/
>> [2] :
>> https://projeteof.org/blog/crowdfunding-openstreetmap-au-benin-275km%C2%B2-dimagerie-satellite-haute-resolution-pour-cotonou-ce-1er-mai-2016/
>> [3] : http://openstreetmap.bj/
>> [4] : https://projeteof.org/blog/projet-eof/
>> [5] : 

Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[john whelan]

There seems to be fairly reasonable free mapbox imagery of this area
available.  There is a lot of very reasonable African imagery available
that has not yet been mapped.

http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1087 is an example.

Cheerio John

On 25 April 2016 at 10:17, nicolas chavent 
wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Below is the English translation of an email sent first to the
> hot-francophone mailing list. It focuses on the first crowdfunding 100%
> directed to OpenStreetMap in Western Africa. The project is run by the
> local OSM association (OSM Bénin) with the support of the collective
> Projet Espace OSM Francophone (ProjetEOF) to purchase 275km² high
> resolution imagery over Cotonou, Benin economic capital.
>
> Enjoy the read and shall you be interested, join us! The crowfunding
> closes May1, 2016: in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%). This
> is an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap
> and opendata impact in Cotonou and Benin by helping significatively the
> mapping of Cotonou by the Cotonou mappers who can then be supported
> remotely by the global OSM community and the Western African groups in
> the first place.
>
> Best,
>
> Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin et the collective
> ProjetEOF
>
>
> = Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution
> satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016! =
>
> Hi all,
>
> This crowdfunding *"Imagerie Satellite pour OSM Benin*" ([1],[2]) is lead
> by the Association OpenStreetMap Bénin (OSMBénin) [3] with the support of
> the collective Projet Espace OpenStreetMap Francophone (ProjetEOF) [4].
> It aims at purchasing around 275 km² high resolution imagery over Cotonou
> in a license which allows for creating into OpenStreetMap geographical
> information  about building, road network, hydrography and landuse.
>
> The mappers from Benin are active creating geographical data in
> OpenStreetMap and thus improving the Free Map of this World via mapathons
> [5] field data collections [6], as well as conducting information and
> outreach work tied to heavy training in GIS (QGIS) and mapping with OSM
> [7]. Unfortunately they are missing on Cotonou high resolution imagery via
> the Bing and MapBox layers. This forces the Benin OSM community to map
> Cotonou - *Benin economic capital* - through field surveys only (GPS,
> Mobile phones and FieldPapers), *a long time and money intensive work*.
> This takes us back to the early ages of OpenStreetMap prior its members
> had access to high resolution imagery through agreements with Yahoo,
> Microsoft Bing or benefited from opendata programs.
>
> Shall this crowdfunding works well, this would be a major breakthrough
> for the growth of OpenStreetMap in Cotonou and in Benin, as a matter of
> fact, with this imagery purchased, hosted and accesible:
>  - Not only the mappers from Bénin would be more efficient mapping
> Cotonou and in a position to dedicate more time to non mapping activities
> such information, outreach, building partnerships while continuing and
> expanding the activities they had been carrying out in the rest of the
> country since 2013 as one can read from the "Infolettre OSM Bénin" [8].
>  - But for mapping Cotonou, they could benefit from the support of the
> global OpenStreetMap community and specifically the Western African local
> groups with whom strong relations have been established and numerous joint
> mapping activities have been organized since 2013.
>
> The crowfunding closes in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%),
> an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
> opendata impact by helping significatively the mapping of Cotonou by the
> Cotonou mappers with the support of the global OSM community and the
> Western African groups in the first place.
>
> To check the status of this crowdfunding project, stay tuned to the Ulule
> platform, the OSM lists, the Wiki site of the OSM project in Bénin, blogs
> and social media used by ProjetEOF (@ProjetEOF), OSMBénin (@OSMBénin) and
> other Western African OSM collectives.
>
> Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin and the collective
> Projet EOF.
>
> [1] : http://fr.ulule.com/imagerie-cotonou/
> [2] : https://projeteof.org/blog/crowdfunding-openstreetmap-au-benin
> -275km%C2%B2-dimagerie-satellite-haute-resolution-pour-cotonou-ce-1er-mai
> -2016/
> [3] : http://openstreetmap.bj/
> [4] : https://projeteof.org/blog/projet-eof/
> [5] : https://twitter.com/absaliou/status/566060712049770496
> [6] : https://twitter.com/agbadonou/status/719455286285570048
> [7] : https://twitter.com/agbadonou/status/677513770214801410
> [8] : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:SOTMTG-COM-OSMBJ-contenu.
> pdf
>
>
> --
> Nicolas Chavent
> Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
> Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
> Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
> Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
> Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99
> 

[OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!

[nicolas chavent]

Hi all,

Below is the English translation of an email sent first to the
hot-francophone mailing list. It focuses on the first crowdfunding 100%
directed to OpenStreetMap in Western Africa. The project is run by the
local OSM association (OSM Bénin) with the support of the collective Projet
Espace OSM Francophone (ProjetEOF) to purchase 275km² high resolution
imagery over Cotonou, Benin economic capital.

Enjoy the read and shall you be interested, join us! The crowfunding closes
May1, 2016: in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%). This is an
easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
opendata impact in Cotonou and Benin by helping significatively the mapping
of Cotonou by the Cotonou mappers who can then be supported remotely by the
global OSM community and the Western African groups in the first place.

Best,

Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin et the collective
ProjetEOF


= Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution
satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016! =

Hi all,

This crowdfunding *"Imagerie Satellite pour OSM Benin*" ([1],[2]) is lead
by the Association OpenStreetMap Bénin (OSMBénin) [3] with the support of
the collective Projet Espace OpenStreetMap Francophone (ProjetEOF) [4]. It
aims at purchasing around 275 km² high resolution imagery over Cotonou in a
license which allows for creating into OpenStreetMap geographical
information  about building, road network, hydrography and landuse.

The mappers from Benin are active creating geographical data in
OpenStreetMap and thus improving the Free Map of this World via mapathons
[5] field data collections [6], as well as conducting information and
outreach work tied to heavy training in GIS (QGIS) and mapping with OSM
[7]. Unfortunately they are missing on Cotonou high resolution imagery via
the Bing and MapBox layers. This forces the Benin OSM community to map
Cotonou - *Benin economic capital* - through field surveys only (GPS,
Mobile phones and FieldPapers), *a long time and money intensive work*.
This takes us back to the early ages of OpenStreetMap prior its members had
access to high resolution imagery through agreements with Yahoo, Microsoft
Bing or benefited from opendata programs.

Shall this crowdfunding works well, this would be a major breakthrough for
the growth of OpenStreetMap in Cotonou and in Benin, as a matter of fact,
with this imagery purchased, hosted and accesible:
 - Not only the mappers from Bénin would be more efficient mapping Cotonou
and in a position to dedicate more time to non mapping activities such
information, outreach, building partnerships while continuing and expanding
the activities they had been carrying out in the rest of the country since
2013 as one can read from the "Infolettre OSM Bénin" [8].
 - But for mapping Cotonou, they could benefit from the support of the
global OpenStreetMap community and specifically the Western African local
groups with whom strong relations have been established and numerous joint
mapping activities have been organized since 2013.

The crowfunding closes in 7 days, we still have to raise 550 Euros (25%),
an easy mean to make a big difference and have a huge OpenStreetMap and
opendata impact by helping significatively the mapping of Cotonou by the
Cotonou mappers with the support of the global OSM community and the
Western African groups in the first place.

To check the status of this crowdfunding project, stay tuned to the Ulule
platform, the OSM lists, the Wiki site of the OSM project in Bénin, blogs
and social media used by ProjetEOF (@ProjetEOF), OSMBénin (@OSMBénin) and
other Western African OSM collectives.

Nicolas on the behalf of the Association OSM Bénin and the collective Projet
EOF.

[1] : http://fr.ulule.com/imagerie-cotonou/
[2] : https://projeteof.org/blog/crowdfunding-openstreetmap-au-benin
-275km%C2%B2-dimagerie-satellite-haute-resolution-pour-cotonou-ce-1er-mai
-2016/
[3] : http://openstreetmap.bj/
[4] : https://projeteof.org/blog/projet-eof/
[5] : https://twitter.com/absaliou/status/566060712049770496
[6] : https://twitter.com/agbadonou/status/719455286285570048
[7] : https://twitter.com/agbadonou/status/677513770214801410
[8] : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:SOTMTG-COM-OSMBJ-contenu.pdf


-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99

Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
Twitter: nicolas_chavent
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