Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On 22 Jan 2008, at 22:18, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: On Jan 22, 2008 9:41 PM, Artem Pavlenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder why geographical projection for tiles ? They look quite distorted when warped on sphere: http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/marble-osm.jpg Maybe spherical Mercator (same as in GMap) would produce better results. Problem is that mercator doesn't work for the poles, which is kinda important for 3D. Also as you get closer to the poles you need to load more tiles to cover the same area. Plate Carre isn't perfect, but it's much better for this purpose. If we setup a tileserver to render in platecarre that might at least fix the stretching, maybe...? Yep, you're right, Mercator is no help. BTW, I rendered tiles (for marble) in Lat/Lon aka Geographic, Plate Carre, equirectangular,cylindrical equidistant, unprojected etc. Still, there are too many re-sampling artifacts. I'll try smaller tile sizes .. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ Cheers Artem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On Jan 23, 2008 11:16 AM, Artem Pavlenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, you're right, Mercator is no help. BTW, I rendered tiles (for marble) in Lat/Lon aka Geographic, Plate Carre, equirectangular,cylindrical equidistant, unprojected etc. Still, there are too many re-sampling artifacts. I'll try smaller tile sizes .. At a guess is seems you probably want to have some kind of equal-area projection since a sphere has the right area, but the geometry is different (angles of a triangle add up to more than 180 degrees). Whether Marble can handle that I have no idea. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On 23 Jan 2008, at 12:23, Torsten Rahn wrote: Hi Artem, On Wednesday 23 January 2008 11:06:41 Artem Pavlenko wrote: Hi Torsten, Glad you like the screenshot. I'll post another one soon :) Yes, you're right mercator would be wasteful. When I got spare moment I'll try different tile sizes to see if this affects final map quality. No, the tilesize shouldn't affect the render quality at all. Ok. Manually adjusting the point at which Marble switches to a different tile level could have a positive effect. Right now it happens in void AbstractScanlineTextureMapper::selectTileLevel( ViewParams* viewParams ) using the formula double linearLevel = ( 2.0 * (double)( radius ) / (double) ( m_tileLoader-tileWidth() ) ); I guess ideally the size of the tile on the screen would match about the size of the original tile. You can check this by changing line 119 in marble/src/lib/TextureTile.cpp from bool tileIdVisible = false; if(tileIdVisible) m_painter.paintTileId(theme); to bool tileIdVisible = true; if(tileIdVisible) m_painter.paintTileId (theme); This will enable you to see the tile borders and the filenames + tile level visually directly on the screen. This Debug Mode is very helpful when you work with tiles in Marble! Thanks, I'll try this. Maybe you can afford better resampling at high zooms for smoother results? I'm not sure whether this can be implemented easily at sufficient speed. Right now Marble just looks up the exact color value on the map for each point on the screen We could try to do some more sophisticated high quality rendering when the user stops moving the map. I think this could work. if you're planning to pull tiles from a web service, then rendering fast (scaled) globe and repainting on each tile arrival (with bilinear interpolation for example) shouldn't be a problem. I did something like that - pulling tiles from VE and warping them on-fly into NatGrid and it worked really well (qt4). Whether it's possible to do the same at acceptable speed while moving is a completely different question though I think for 'moving' current approach works well. BTW, I rendered tiles (for marble) in Lat/Lon aka Geographic, Plate Carre, equirectangular,cylindrical equidistant, unprojected etc. Still, there are too many re-sampling artifacts. I'll try smaller tile sizes .. Could you send me a screenshot of Plate Carre, so I get the idea how it looks like? Here you go : http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/marble-osm- flat.jpg I found 'magic' zoom level when there's minimal distortion. Cheers Artem Best Regards, Torsten PS: Is the OSM-Talk Moderator on holidays? Best Wishes, Torsten Best Artem Best wishes, Torsten -- Torsten Rahn Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192 credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080 Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz -- Torsten Rahn Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192 credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080 Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz -- Torsten Rahn Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192 credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080 Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
What do you mean by magic? Just a zoom value where it looks good? Precisely :) How do bad and average zoom levels look like? Could you send me a screenshot of bad and average (or maybe put the tile data somewhere so I can experiment somewhat, too) :-) ? Here is 'bad' example : http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/ marble-osm-bad.jpg - you can not read text at all. You can get data from : http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/ marble-osm-data.tar.bz2 (Note: only area around Oxford, UK has got hi-res tiles) Cheers Artem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On 23 Jan 2008, at 14:35, Torsten Rahn wrote: This looks excellent. I see that there are some minor faults on the fonts. But for a quick viewer that Marble is and for the given projection it's a pretty good result already. That being said we plan to have different quality settings in Marble 0.6 in general: Ah, just comparing it against the screenshot in your presentation: http://www.port.ac.uk/special/soc/programme/presentations/ filetodownload,70851,en.pdf I only now realized that you looked at this in flat map projection. Of course if you look at it in spherical projection the fonts will get squeezed. as you basically render unprojected fonts against an equirectangular projection. Is there any chance that you could show how this looks in spherical projection (maybe with fonts adjusted to equirectangular projection, so there will be minimal distortion in spherical projection)? I will do later on tonight. Or you can use my data to test it yourself. Some zoom levels look ugly due to my database experiments:) simplifying geometry, but should be good enough for testing. Cheers, Torsten Artem -- Torsten Rahn Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192 credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080 Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On 23 Jan 2008, at 14:52, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Artem Pavlenko wrote: Here is 'bad' example : http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/ marble-osm-bad.jpg - you can not read text at all. Is that really unprojected It is due to re-sampling. Tiles are projected into Plate Carre. I think marble is not interpolating, just picks first pixel for speed (while scaling). cheers Richard Artem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 11:26 +, Artem Pavlenko wrote: I'm on version 0.5 and I get the data by going to File - Download New Data... and installing the Mapnik tiles. They can then be used by chosing OSM Mapnik in the Map View sidebar. Hmm... I compiled 0.6 from source and there's no 'Download New Data..' Artem It looks like you only get it in the KDE-enabled builds, not the plain QTonly application. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On 22 Jan 2008, at 19:50, Matt Williams wrote: On Tuesday 22 January 2008 11:26:53 Artem Pavlenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Matt, On Monday 21 January 2008 15:20:41 Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 21, 2008 10:56 AM, Matt Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marble already has the ability to download a set of low quality Mapnik tiles (about z=8 or something I guess). Is this just on development versions? I'm running Marble 0.4.0 here, but can't figure out if it can do what you say. Andy I'm on version 0.5 and I get the data by going to File - Download New Data... and installing the Mapnik tiles. They can then be used by chosing OSM Mapnik in the Map View sidebar. Hmm... I compiled 0.6 from source and there's no 'Download New Data..' The version currently in SVN is 0.5 (i.e. there is no 0.6) Yes, there is :D - http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/ marble-0.6.jpg and talking to someone who compiled it from a checkout thismorning, the menu item should be there. Are you getting the code from SVN or from source packages from somewhere? When compiling Marble, you can choose to either compile the plain Qt4 version or the version that uses the KDE4 libraries. Apparently, the Qt version doesn't have the 'Download New Data..' link so if you want that, you'll need to build the KDE version. To do that, you should follow the Build Marble as a KDE application instructions from http://edu.kde.org/marble/ obtain.php (and of course, you'll need the KDE4 libraries) Yes, thanks, I'm building QT_ONLY version. Artem Matt Artem From what I remember, this was only added very soon before the release of KDE 4.0.0 so I guess that it may only be available in Marble 0.5. If you compiled from source, it's easy to update. Otherwise, I guess you can wait for a distro update. If you want to talk to the developer's directly, you can find them (tackat or ingwa) on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list or in the #kde-edu channel on irc.freenode.net Matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On Tuesday 22 January 2008 20:41:33 Artem Pavlenko wrote: On 22 Jan 2008, at 12:59, Torsten Rahn wrote: File - Download New Data (DXS) is one of the very few features that only get enabled if you compile the KDE version (it's a KDE technology). While the MarbleWidget only depends on Qt4 you can have additional features in the menu that get supported throught the KDE framework if you compile it as a KDE4 application. So you probably compiled with -DQTONLY=ON. Yes, I compiled on Mac :) You shouldn't let that stand in your way http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_on_Mac_OS_X :D Matt Williams ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On 22 Jan 2008, at 20:55, Matt Williams wrote: On Tuesday 22 January 2008 20:41:33 Artem Pavlenko wrote: On 22 Jan 2008, at 12:59, Torsten Rahn wrote: File - Download New Data (DXS) is one of the very few features that only get enabled if you compile the KDE version (it's a KDE technology). While the MarbleWidget only depends on Qt4 you can have additional features in the menu that get supported throught the KDE framework if you compile it as a KDE4 application. So you probably compiled with -DQTONLY=ON. Yes, I compiled on Mac :) You shouldn't let that stand in your way http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_on_Mac_OS_X :D KDE on Mac, why? I just boot Linux :P A. Matt Williams ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On Jan 22, 2008 9:41 PM, Artem Pavlenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder why geographical projection for tiles ? They look quite distorted when warped on sphere: http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/marble-osm.jpg Maybe spherical Mercator (same as in GMap) would produce better results. Problem is that mercator doesn't work for the poles, which is kinda important for 3D. Also as you get closer to the poles you need to load more tiles to cover the same area. Plate Carre isn't perfect, but it's much better for this purpose. If we setup a tileserver to render in platecarre that might at least fix the stretching, maybe...? Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
I think it's pretty impressive that for a multi-day KDE event, all about their new 4.0 release, that we get practically 5 entire minutes of their main keynote speech turned over to the promotion of OSM, instead of promotion of KDE! It's not like we got mentioned in an incidental speech, or one about Marble specifically. And given that they develop an office suite, the talk about ODF support was an illustrative aside during the talk about OSM support! Is anyone here helping the Marble developers with this? It would be nice to help out if they want custom tilesets or the like, and make sure that we can crowbar as many OSM-derived maps into the application as we can get away with. Cheers, Andy On Jan 20, 2008 3:56 PM, Matt Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aaron Seigo mentioned and did a wonderful bit of advertising for OSM during his keynote speech for the KDE4 release at the Google headquarters in Mountainview CA yesterday. The full video can be found at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6642148224800885420 but if you just want the OSM stuff, skip ahead to 1:11:00. Matt Williams ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
On Jan 21, 2008 10:56 AM, Matt Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marble already has the ability to download a set of low quality Mapnik tiles (about z=8 or something I guess). Is this just on development versions? I'm running Marble 0.4.0 here, but can't figure out if it can do what you say. Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM gets mentioned in KDE4 keynote speech at Google Headquarters
Aaron Seigo mentioned and did a wonderful bit of advertising for OSM during his keynote speech for the KDE4 release at the Google headquarters in Mountainview CA yesterday. The full video can be found at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6642148224800885420 but if you just want the OSM stuff, skip ahead to 1:11:00. Matt Williams ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
