Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Tobias Knerr]

On 08.06.2018 19:19, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> building=building is an unexpected way to mark building without
> specifying its type and therefore retagging this duplicate to
> building=yes would improve tagging without any information loss.
I'm in favour of proceeding with the proposed mechanical edit. The tag
change in question is doubtlessly an improvement, and the plans are
thoroughly documented. :)

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

On 9. Jun 2018, at 17:24, Michael Reichert  wrote:

>> So, is analysis by  Christoph Hormann
>> 
>> sufficient for this proposed edit?
> 
> Yes


+1, but the tool you describe would be nice as well ;-)


cheers,
Martin 

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Michael Reichert]

Hi Mateusz,

Am 2018-06-09 um 16:20 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:
> So, is analysis by  Christoph Hormann
> 
> sufficient for this proposed edit?

Yes

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

9. Jun 2018 12:54 by osm...@michreichert.de :


> I did not expect you to write such a tool. It would be ok to pick some
> random samples and look into their history.




So, is analysis by  Christoph Hormann

sufficient for this proposed edit?
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Michael Reichert]

Hi Mateusz,

Am 2018-06-09 um 12:17 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:
> Are you aware about any analysis like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - listing top contributors
> 
> - time distribution graph (when tag was added)
> 
> 
> - distribution of editors used to enter data
> 
> 
> - maybe publishing also raw data used in analysis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should be fairly simple to write tool that
> 
> will give this info based on a simple 
> 
> 
> analysis (it would give statistics about 
> 
> 
> changes that caused tag to occur, without
> 
> special handling of reverts).

I did not expect you to write such a tool. It would be ok to pick some
random samples and look into their history.

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

9. Jun 2018 12:17 by matkoni...@tutanota.com :


>
>  But I would prefer to avoid spending time on creating 
>
>
> tool that already exists.
>




I found  http://taghistory.raifer.tech  that 
reveals that this tag is target of repeated mechanical edits.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

9. Jun 2018 11:36 by osm...@michreichert.de :


> Did you investigate who used that tag and maybe why? Was it a bot, a
> editor preset, an import or manual user input? I would like to have this
> question answered before a mechanical edit.




Are you aware about any analysis like that?




I thought about





- listing top contributors

- time distribution graph (when tag was added)


- distribution of editors used to enter data


- maybe publishing also raw data used in analysis




It should be fairly simple to write tool that

will give this info based on a simple 


analysis (it would give statistics about 


changes that caused tag to occur, without

special handling of reverts).




 But I would prefer to avoid spending time on creating 


tool that already exists.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 09 June 2018, Michael Reichert wrote:
>
> Did you investigate who used that tag and maybe why? Was it a bot, a
> editor preset, an import or manual user input? I would like to have
> this question answered before a mechanical edit.

I had looked at this after Mateusz's announcement and it seems fairly 
broad in origin:

* Both iD and JOSM
* mostly manual mapping
* a large portion seems from HOT mapping in southern Africa and 
Bangladesch (probably about half) so it might be a good idea for HOT to 
look into improving education of their mappers in proper use of 
building tags and diligence and exactness in entering tags.
* occurrences look fairly scattered in most cases so it seems this is 
rarely mappers always using the wrong tag.

By the way - do editors, in particular JOSM validator of course, detect 
tagging mistakes of this kind in some form?  This is a slippery slope 
because you easily end up with the condescending Google style 'did you 
mean to search for Y instead of X?'.  But things like:

* key and value identical
* single character variation of a common tag with no significant use on 
its own
* mixup of common keys like landuse/leisure, water/waterway etc.

are things that could be hinted cautiously to the user to be possible 
errors.  From JOSM i only know the message that a value is not in 
presets - which would catch these errors as well but which is not that 
meaningful.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

8. Jun 2018 22:41 by james2...@gmail.com :


> if building=building is not or was not a  wiki approved way of tagging, this 
> seems more on the side of linting osm tags than it does a "mass blind 
> edit"/import




Note that just because tags are not described on wiki

or are described as undesirable it does not mean that it is ok to 


run mechanical edits on them without a discussion.




And it is both tag linting and mass blind edit (one is not excluding or 
implying another).

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Michael Reichert]

Hi Mateusz,

Am 2018-06-08 um 19:19 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:
> building=yes is a standard way to mark building without specifying its
> type. Editors wishing to specify building type would (directly or
> indirectly, for example using StreetComplete) look through buildings
> tagged as building=yes.
> 
> building=building is an unexpected way to mark building without
> specifying its type and therefore retagging this duplicate to
> building=yes would improve tagging without any information loss.

Did you investigate who used that tag and maybe why? Was it a bot, a
editor preset, an import or manual user input? I would like to have this
question answered before a mechanical edit.

IMHO Any good mechanical edit correcting "wrong tagging" should do some
investigation of that kind.

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[john whelan]

My view is probably along the lines of as OSM matures using more
standardized tags will make it easier to extract meaningful data from OSM
mapping.

Having said that we still need the flexibility to use new tags.

That Building=building should be replaced by building=yes is fairly obvious
some other tag replacements may not be.

Cheerio John

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018, 4:44 pm James,  wrote:

> I don't see a problem with this as the major concerns: big edit
> boundaries, what does it affect? are taken care of by documentation
>
> if building=building is not or was not a  wiki approved way of tagging,
> this seems more on the side of linting osm tags than it does a "mass blind
> edit"/import
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 1:22 PM Mateusz Konieczny, 
> wrote:
>
>> building=yes is a standard way to mark building without specifying its
>> type. Editors wishing to specify building type would (directly or
>> indirectly, for example using StreetComplete) look through buildings
>> tagged as building=yes.
>>
>> building=building is an unexpected way to mark building without
>> specifying its type and therefore retagging this duplicate to
>> building=yes would improve tagging without any information loss.
>>
>> It would also (as an useful byproduct) remove this tag from popular
>> values at https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building#values and
>> ensure that it will not become proposed as a valid value by an iD
>> editor (at this moment threshold for building value is 14514 uses).
>>
>> Between 4000 and 5000 objects are expected to be edited. See
>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/building=building#map for a
>> geographic distribution.
>>
>> Changeset would be split into small areas to avoid continent-sized
>> bounding boxes. As this tag is on buildings it is not expected that any
>> object will force bounding box to be extremely large.
>>
>> For documentation page see
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/moving_building%3Dbuilding_to_building%3Dyes
>> For documentation of my previous proposals (including both proposals
>> that failed to be approved and approved ones) see
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[James]

I don't see a problem with this as the major concerns: big edit boundaries,
what does it affect? are taken care of by documentation

if building=building is not or was not a  wiki approved way of tagging,
this seems more on the side of linting osm tags than it does a "mass blind
edit"/import

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 1:22 PM Mateusz Konieczny, 
wrote:

> building=yes is a standard way to mark building without specifying its
> type. Editors wishing to specify building type would (directly or
> indirectly, for example using StreetComplete) look through buildings
> tagged as building=yes.
>
> building=building is an unexpected way to mark building without
> specifying its type and therefore retagging this duplicate to
> building=yes would improve tagging without any information loss.
>
> It would also (as an useful byproduct) remove this tag from popular
> values at https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building#values and
> ensure that it will not become proposed as a valid value by an iD
> editor (at this moment threshold for building value is 14514 uses).
>
> Between 4000 and 5000 objects are expected to be edited. See
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/building=building#map for a
> geographic distribution.
>
> Changeset would be split into small areas to avoid continent-sized
> bounding boxes. As this tag is on buildings it is not expected that any
> object will force bounding box to be extremely large.
>
> For documentation page see
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/moving_building%3Dbuilding_to_building%3Dyes
> For documentation of my previous proposals (including both proposals
> that failed to be approved and approved ones) see
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving building=building to building=yes

[Mateusz Konieczny]

building=yes is a standard way to mark building without specifying its
type. Editors wishing to specify building type would (directly or
indirectly, for example using StreetComplete) look through buildings
tagged as building=yes.

building=building is an unexpected way to mark building without
specifying its type and therefore retagging this duplicate to
building=yes would improve tagging without any information loss.

It would also (as an useful byproduct) remove this tag from popular
values at https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building#values 
 and
ensure that it will not become proposed as a valid value by an iD
editor (at this moment threshold for building value is 14514 uses).

Between 4000 and 5000 objects are expected to be edited. See
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/building=building#map 
 for a
geographic distribution.

Changeset would be split into small areas to avoid continent-sized
bounding boxes. As this tag is on buildings it is not expected that any
object will force bounding box to be extremely large.

For documentation page see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/moving_building%3Dbuilding_to_building%3Dyes
 

For documentation of my previous proposals (including both proposals
that failed to be approved and approved ones) see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account
 


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk