Re: [OSM-talk] what can be mapped - temporary, pernament and reoccuring

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 25.05.2018 20:54, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:



Mapping Christmas market appearing once a year starts to be weird.



Though that seems to be the exception for rare things - there is even a map renderer focusing on 
that season,

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSantaMap (but the linked map seems down)
using the xmas: key:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:xmas:feature

IIRC, OsmAnd has some Christmas gimmicks as well, not sure if it evaluates the 
above scheme.

tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] what can be mapped - temporary, pernament and reoccuring

[Mateusz Konieczny]

25. May 2018 20:17 by frede...@remote.org :


> I think the key here is, like so often, verifiability. Things in OSM
> must be verifiable, and I'd like to add "... with reasonable effort by
> an average person". If something is verifiable only with expensive
> special gear by a person with a doctorate in physics, then maybe OSM is
> not the place. Same with recurring things - if their frequency is so low
> that the effort to verify them becomes unreasonable, then don't map.
>




I completely agree with that.


 


> My gut feeling is that something that happens once a week is reasonably
> easy to verify. Something that happens once a month, mmh, maybe ok.
> Something that happens once a year is, in my opinion, too hard to verify
> and should be left out.
>




I would expect limit somewhere between "once a month" and "once a year".

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Re: [OSM-talk] what can be mapped - temporary, pernament and reoccuring

[Mateusz Konieczny]

25. May 2018 20:17 by frede...@remote.org :

> How infrequent does the flea market have to happen in order for it to
> become an un-mappable "event"? Take a Christmas market for example,
> which is like a flea market just less frequent... or is it an event already?
>




By event I meant something that happened once and will not repeat (for example

"1936 Summer Olympic" or "Pope John Paul II assassination attempt" or 
"Eurovision 2018 contest").




Something that happens regularly at the same place would not be event -

if there is a flea market regularly taking place at a specific location there 
is no need to separately

map "flea market, first Monday of June 2018", "flea market, second Monday of 
June 2018".




I also have doubts about rare events.




Mapping street vendor seems to be obviously OK.

Mapping flea market appearing once a week seems to be OK.

Mapping flea market appearing once a month seems to be problematic.
Mapping Christmas market appearing once a year starts to be weird.___
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[OSM-talk] what can be mapped - temporary, pernament and reoccuring

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

   I think it is not possible to make clear distinction here. You write
yourself that

> OpenStreetMap is not a place to map events that happened in the
> past or will likely happen in the future. 

and then you write that you want to map

> a flea market present on each Tuesday, regular
> street otherwise (maybe with some street markings).

How infrequent does the flea market have to happen in order for it to
become an un-mappable "event"? Take a Christmas market for example,
which is like a flea market just less frequent... or is it an event already?

I think the key here is, like so often, verifiability. Things in OSM
must be verifiable, and I'd like to add "... with reasonable effort by
an average person". If something is verifiable only with expensive
special gear by a person with a doctorate in physics, then maybe OSM is
not the place. Same with recurring things - if their frequency is so low
that the effort to verify them becomes unreasonable, then don't map.

My gut feeling is that something that happens once a week is reasonably
easy to verify. Something that happens once a month, mmh, maybe ok.
Something that happens once a year is, in my opinion, too hard to verify
and should be left out.

(I don't mind someone mapping the Christmas market, or Burning Man, once
it is set up, and deleting everything again when it's packed up. It just
shouldn't be in OSM while it's not in the real world.)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk] what can be mapped - temporary, pernament and reoccuring

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Some features are always present and are indisputable mappable - like
buildings.

Some features are seasonal but are easily verifiable all the time as they
merely change the form. For example an intermittent river - riverbed is
always there, nearly always with obvious indications that water flowed
there some time ago.

There are features that obviously should not be mapped - with objects like
vehicles in motion being the extreme example. Other obvious examples are
events - OpenStreetMap is not a place to map events that happened in the
past or will likely happen in the future. One may still map memorial
plaques or monuments or football stadiums, but OSM is not place to mark for
examples places of famous robberies or crash sites of aircraft or planned
locations and dates of matches of a soccer tournament.

But there are also features that are possible to survey only during
specific circumstances and unverifiable otherwise. For example shops in a
mall building closed during night - verifiable only during opening hours,
with building interior inaccessible otherwise. Other example is a shop
without sign, or with movable sign placed on a sidewalk during opening
hours - such building may be after closing indistinguishable from
residential building with a garage or a vacant shop with type of the shop
nearly impossible to guess. Or a street vendor - somebody may be regularly
at given location within his/her opening hours, after that time such place
would be indistinguishable from any other party of the street. Or movable
loungers, present at the same location each spring, summer and autumn,
removed for winter. Or a flea market present on each Tuesday, regular
street otherwise (maybe with some street markings).

I think that all cases like that may be mapped, and I plan to amend "Good
practice" wiki page to explicitly allow features that are reoccurring and
to explain that they are not included into "temporary features" that are
not supposed to be mapped.

This discussion was started as result of
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Good_practice#temporary_events_and_temporary_features_clarification
 
on
 request of SelfishSeahorse
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