Re: [OSM-talk] New Proposed Feature: Tagging the age and duration of existence of features
Peter Dörrie wrote: Hi everybody, I made a proposal for tagging the 4th dimension. Hope you like it ;) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/4th_Dimension I've put a note on that talk page, but I think this needs to be opened up a bit, since it IS quite an important area. Should the database ONLY contain currently existing mapping information? That is the area that is getting a 'no' on the 4th_Dimension page although it is not actually WORDED in that way! (Hence my comment there about a poll not being appropriate - it's the wrong question?) There are two types of history being generated as we go along, the history of when information is added and updated, but also now, the history of CHANGES to an area, which from my own point of view is MORE important than simply mapping the current situation. Roads and other POI that exist in today's map have been recorded, and the information is accurate. Should we then simply wipe that history because an area has been flattened and remodelled? Surely it is not beyond the whit of man to simply hide that material from those users who do not want to see it - deleting it just seems like an act of vandalism :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Proposed Feature: Tagging the age and duration of existence of features
2009/5/22 Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de: Hi! start_date=, end_date= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Properties http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/start_date/ http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/end_date/ maybe someone could create the tag pages for those on wiki? Silly point old data can be important land marks still, Say Tagging Disused Railway Lines or Tagging Roman Roads with Roman Latin Names might be of some use. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Proposed Feature: Tagging the age and duration of existence of features
start_date=, end_date= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Properties http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/start_date/ http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/end_date/ maybe someone could create the tag pages for those on wiki? 2009/5/22 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Hi everybody, I made a proposal for tagging the 4th dimension. Hope you like it ;) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/4th_Dimension Greetings, Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Proposed Feature: Tagging the age and duration of existence of features
OJ W wrote: start_date=, end_date= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Properties http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/start_date/ http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/end_date/ maybe someone could create the tag pages for those on wiki? 2009/5/22 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Hi everybody, I made a proposal for tagging the 4th dimension. Hope you like it ;) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/4th_Dimension There are a couple of things here that need discussing, but hopefully that can be a quick discussion. MANY of the features on the map can be identified with a 'start_date' and it would be nice to have that information. Lots of new roads are being built, and many historic locations have a construction date. The problem comes with 'end_date', and since in some areas roads ARE being destroyed, are they removed from the map or CAN they be left with an end_date and features which have an end_date earlier than the current date are ignored? ( I'm thinking of the 2012 Olympic site which has re-routed many roads? ) The actual content of a date is a major point of discussion, but for the time being I would propose sticking with a simple ISO date format. The discussion on historic date formats has been going on for years now on the genealogical lists without agreement. Just consider where a start_date is between two known dates. i.e. a feature is absent on a map of 1945 but present in the 1955 map - so you end up with a more complex start_date entry ... and which calendar was used to provide the date ;) ( start_date and end_date were I think added for things like festivals and other transitory map information, so it may be appropriate to redefine them as constructed_date and demolished_date to distinguish historic data from transitory data ? ) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Proposed Feature: Tagging the age and duration of existence of features
Lester Caine wrote: OJ W wrote: start_date=, end_date= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Properties http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/start_date/ http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/end_date/ maybe someone could create the tag pages for those on wiki? 2009/5/22 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Hi everybody, I made a proposal for tagging the 4th dimension. Hope you like it ;) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/4th_Dimension There are a couple of things here that need discussing, but hopefully that can be a quick discussion. MANY of the features on the map can be identified with a 'start_date' and it would be nice to have that information. Lots of new roads are being built, and many historic locations have a construction date. The problem comes with 'end_date', and since in some areas roads ARE being destroyed, are they removed from the map or CAN they be left with an end_date and features which have an end_date earlier than the current date are ignored? ( I'm thinking of the 2012 Olympic site which has re-routed many roads? ) I can also see this functionality quite useful in the US, where at least in Oregon, DOT has had lots of funding made available to rebuild freeways and continue building the state cycleway system (which has largely been neglected since the 1970s). I imagine it would allow a way to be marked as closed for construction during the time it's scheduled to go on, then automatically revert back to being a finished way later. Not to mention save me a lot of checking and rechecking. ( start_date and end_date were I think added for things like festivals and other transitory map information, so it may be appropriate to redefine them as constructed_date and demolished_date to distinguish historic data from transitory data ? ) That could be useful as well, since RCN-40 is so congested as to be impassable whenever the Rose Festival is going on in Portland, Oregon or Luis Palau brings his complete failure in crowd control to Waterfront Park and fails to keep the cycleway clear for through traffic (part of the condition of renting the park). As well as for the myriad of parades that makes Portland traffic and transit impossible for much of the Rose Festival season. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New Proposed Feature: Tagging the age and duration of existence of features
Hi! start_date=, end_date= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Properties http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/start_date/ http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/end_date/ maybe someone could create the tag pages for those on wiki? Actually, I think these tags as well as the proposal are a very bad idea in their current form. The only reason this has not already exploded is that they are not being used (14 uses according to above statistics). I assume that the main and default application for a map is to show current information on the present. Including past and future data is ok, but it should be done in a non-intrusive way that does not damage the main use. Just tagging something that isn't there with and end_date does not remove it from any map as to my knowledge all current tools and renderers ignore them and will show the objects anyway. When introducing a new tag, you don't seriously want to damage all existing maps and databases and force every tool to be changed, do you? I suggest we remove those tags from MapFeautres and find a better way to represent things that are not there. bye Nop ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
