Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: But as soon as you want to use the interlanguage links as a database - just like OSM - then it is suboptimal. For my point of view that's not a problem of OSM. It's the same as we don't map for the renderer. So this needs to be solved by another tool or in Wikipedi/Wikidata/[whatever] and not in OSM. We should not merge a second datebase inside OSM w/o a clear GIS relating. I fully agree. For the record: I never said that it is a problem of OSM neither to merge another database. I only answered the questions of Martin respectively yours concerning my care about WIWOSM. And if (as also discussed in this thread) there are problems with one special Internet Browser (who I consider not behaving very close to standards) then that's the problem of this browser. I think I have to ask Steve Coast who is the intermediary person to Microsoft. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de wrote: My idea was to use these Wikidata objects to link everybody to the Wikipedia article of his browser language. For the Universe article this should be done by clicking this: http://tools.wmflabs.org/wdrdr/cgi-bin/index.cgi?item=q1 The same thing could help the OSM wiki. For example JOSM hard codes each available language translation: item name=Artwork icon=presets/arts_centre.png type=node,way,closedway link href= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=artwork; de.href= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:tourism=artwork; es.href= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Tag:tourism=artwork; fr.href= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:tourism=artwork; it.href= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:tourism=artwork; pt_BR.href= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt-br:Tag:tourism=artwork; / label text=Edit Artwork / key key=tourism value=artwork / /item Which will be instantly out of date, when anyone adds a new translation. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
On 29.06.2013 01:33, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com mailto:bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de mailto:tirko...@yahoo.de wrote: My idea was to use these Wikidata objects to link everybody to the Wikipedia article of his browser language. For the Universe article this should be done by clicking this: http://tools.wmflabs.org/wdrdr/cgi-bin/index.cgi?item=q1 The same thing could help the OSM wiki. For example JOSM hard codes each available language translation: item name=Artwork icon=presets/arts_centre.png type=node,way,closedway link href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=artwork; de.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:tourism=artwork; es.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Tag:tourism=artwork; fr.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:tourism=artwork; it.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:tourism=artwork; pt_BR.href=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt-br:Tag:tourism=artwork; / label text=Edit Artwork / key key=tourism value=artwork / /item Which will be instantly out of date, when anyone adds a new translation. +10, it's a pain See https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/3540 colliar signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
It was IE8 on XP Sp3 that it did not work on. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Am 26.06.2013 03:04, schrieb Tirkon: If we link from OSM as a international project to a Wikipedia article there is the problem, that we cannot link everybody to the article of his native language. did you take care about WIWOSM? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM - This already works fine since more than one year. - the tagging scheme can handle different language even in parallel - BUT: the tagging of ONE LANGUAGE is SUFFICIENT, the rest is handled as linking within Wikipedia Best regards, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
On 26/giu/2013, at 05:34, Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de wrote: The present fallback is the Wikidata article. These questions I ask myself as well. But at present the basic functionality should be tested. isn't wikidata an extract of Wikipedia and therefor doesn't provide more but at the most the same information than Wikipedia? What can you do with your approach that you can't do with the inter language links in WP? (ok, in wikidata you get the semantics about an object, while WP provides you an article that might also cover multiple objects, but IMHO the semantics about what is an object should remain in OSM). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: did you take care about WIWOSM? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM Of course I do. ;-) - This already works fine since more than one year. - the tagging scheme can handle different language even in parallel - BUT: the tagging of ONE LANGUAGE is SUFFICIENT, the rest is handled as linking within Wikipedia Just a few days after the collaboration of Wikipedia and OSM began, I posted a whole bunch of ideas what could be done, i.e. generating maps like this automaticely from OSM. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Imagemap_Landkreis_Aurich This would be far beyond that, what is done by WIWOSM. Thus I am really happy to have WIWOSM. Thus I wrote a German guide just the day after it was introduced on the FOSSGIS. Sadly we have the problem, that it does not work in the Internet Explorer. So long it is problematical to convince Wikipedians using WIWOSM instead of the old less advantageous tools. My intension was and is to advertise this collaboration. All this should make clear that I really care about WIWOSM. My focus on the collaboration of Wikipedia and OSM is also the reason, why I came up with the idea of this thread. At the moment the only question is whether it works or not - nothing more. You are right: For WIWOSM one language link is sufficient. You wrote that the rest has to be done in Wikipedia. Again you are right. And this thread is the first beginning of testing just that. If it works, the next step could be to find the Wikidata object from the link to one discretionary language article. But the essential part that needs testing is what I brang up here. If it works, everybody has the possibility to use a Native wikipedia link, i.e. in a posting or a mail, in an OSM map or in another project. I never asked to implement something in OSM. I only begged for a test in order to make this feature possible. Thus the title of this thread is: Please !!TEST!! this Native wikipedia link - feature and not Please implement this Native wikipedia link - feature. Be assured that I will not ask to implement something in OSM without caring about WIWOSM. ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: isn't wikidata an extract of Wikipedia and therefor doesn't provide more but at the most the same information than Wikipedia? What can you do with your approach that you can't do with the inter language links in WP? Wikidata actually now powers the interlanguage links in (at least) the English Wikipedia. It used to be that you manually added links to the other language Wikipedias in the article body, but these have all been removed and the interwiki links is now provided through Wikidata. So inter language links in WP = Wikidata. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: isn't wikidata an extract of Wikipedia and therefor doesn't provide more but at the most the same information than Wikipedia? What can you do with your approach that you can't do with the inter language links in WP? (ok, in wikidata you get the semantics about an object, while WP provides you an article that might also cover multiple objects, but IMHO the semantics about what is an object should remain in OSM). Theoretically you are right. If you want to find a Wikipedia article in another language it works. But as soon as you want to use the interlanguage links as a database - just like OSM - then it is suboptimal. Wikipedia needs the unique links because the interlanguage links are only the beginning and the fundament of other Wikidata features. In future i.e. all the standard data of persons or towns in the infobox (i.e area, elevation, population) will be taken from the central Wikidata for all languages as well, possibly imported from official sources, if they are free. Therefore you need a unique structure. At present all the changing data (i.e. population) have to be edited in every language by hand. Further the Wikidata object is easier to handle. There is no need to scan all links in order to find one of them. If you walked before Wikidata along a chain of languages you did not always come back to the beginning. Before Wikidata you had often two or three scattered blocks of languages that should have been one block and one Wikidata object. Since Wikidata many of them could be found. Concerning the Native language feature nobody was able to provide it in a live-situation before Wikidata. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Wikidata actually now powers the interlanguage links in (at least) the English Wikipedia. .. in all 280 languages. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Hello Tirkon, the tool is working, but it would also no problem to write such a tool on base of Wikipedias interwikilinks. Wikipedia article names are human readable, and I would be careful to call a link to Q1 native for somebody. We had a proposal for a Wikidata-Tag. Please read my comment there: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AProposed_features%2FWikidatadiff=884867oldid=883084 So I believe we will need Wikidata, but only for entries without an Wikipedia article. Greetings Kolossos Am 26.06.2013 18:13, schrieb Tirkon: Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: did you take care about WIWOSM? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM Of course I do. ;-) - This already works fine since more than one year. - the tagging scheme can handle different language even in parallel - BUT: the tagging of ONE LANGUAGE is SUFFICIENT, the rest is handled as linking within Wikipedia Just a few days after the collaboration of Wikipedia and OSM began, I posted a whole bunch of ideas what could be done, i.e. generating maps like this automaticely from OSM. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Imagemap_Landkreis_Aurich This would be far beyond that, what is done by WIWOSM. Thus I am really happy to have WIWOSM. Thus I wrote a German guide just the day after it was introduced on the FOSSGIS. Sadly we have the problem, that it does not work in the Internet Explorer. So long it is problematical to convince Wikipedians using WIWOSM instead of the old less advantageous tools. My intension was and is to advertise this collaboration. All this should make clear that I really care about WIWOSM. My focus on the collaboration of Wikipedia and OSM is also the reason, why I came up with the idea of this thread. At the moment the only question is whether it works or not - nothing more. You are right: For WIWOSM one language link is sufficient. You wrote that the rest has to be done in Wikipedia. Again you are right. And this thread is the first beginning of testing just that. If it works, the next step could be to find the Wikidata object from the link to one discretionary language article. But the essential part that needs testing is what I brang up here. If it works, everybody has the possibility to use a Native wikipedia link, i.e. in a posting or a mail, in an OSM map or in another project. I never asked to implement something in OSM. I only begged for a test in order to make this feature possible. Thus the title of this thread is: Please !!TEST!! this Native wikipedia link - feature and not Please implement this Native wikipedia link - feature. Be assured that I will not ask to implement something in OSM without caring about WIWOSM. ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Working on: Firefox 21 on ubuntu 12.10 Chromium 25.0.1364.160 (Developer Build 25.0.1364.160-0ubuntu0.12.10.1) Ubuntu 12.10 Chrome 28.0.1500.52 (Official Build 207119) Not working on: IE (V7 I think - can check tomorrow) on XP Best, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Am 26.06.2013 19:09, schrieb Tirkon: But as soon as you want to use the interlanguage links as a database - just like OSM - then it is suboptimal. For my point of view that's not a problem of OSM. It's the same as we don't map for the renderer. So this needs to be solved by another tool or in Wikipedi/Wikidata/[whatever] and not in OSM. We should not merge a second datebase inside OSM w/o a clear GIS relating. And if (as also discussed in this thread) there are problems with one special Internet Browser (who I consider not behaving very close to standards) then that's the problem of this browser. Just my 2 cents, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
I have a lot of thoughts about this proposal, but this really should happen on the tagging list. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de wrote: My idea was to use these Wikidata objects to link everybody to the Wikipedia article of his browser language. For the Universe article this should be done by clicking this: http://tools.wmflabs.org/wdrdr/cgi-bin/index.cgi?item=q1 Hmm. It is great to link people to their native language wikipedia article, and good to see a use case for wikidata. But is there a way to make this work all the time, for all articles? Host, externally to OSM, a script that processes your browsers language preference tags and tests wikipedia pages in order, eventually returning a redirect to the best match? In my case that would bring up English first, but if no version of English is available, German: An example header from a browser: Accept-Language: en,en-gb;q=0.8,de;q=0.5 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: I have a lot of thoughts about this proposal, but this really should happen on the tagging list. At this time this is no official proposal but only a question if it worked for you or not - in which language and with which browsers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Please test this Native wikipedia link - feature
Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: In my case that would bring up English first, but if no version of English is available, German: The present fallback is the Wikidata article. These questions I ask myself as well. But at present the basic functionality should be tested. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
