Re: [Talk-at] Peter Paul

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Stefan Tauner
On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 19:23:01 +0100
Friedrich Volkmann  wrote:

> On 21.12.2016 18:07, Stefan Kopetzky wrote:
> 
> "Kahlengebirge", hab ich so auch noch nie gehört...
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gipfel_des_Kahlengebirges.jpg

Das Bild ist auch von einem User upgeloadet worden, der nur zu diesem
Zweck erstellt worden ist. Ich nehme an, dass er das selber war.

> > Grundsätzlich gibts keinen Grund den Node ganz zu löschen (oder tauchen
> > Gipfel ohne name nicht mehr auf bei mapnik?). Der "Gipfel" an und für
> > sich ist ja da, und die Höhe ist auch nicht verkehrt.  
> 
> Den Gipfel ganz zu löschen ist eh kein Thema, es geht nur um den Namen.
> 

Ich bin nicht mal sicher, ob sich dort überhaupt ein Gipfel befindet.
Bei den bewaldeten Hügerln ist das für mich immer ein bissl schwer fest
zu stellen. Jedenfalls weist an der Stelle nichts darauf hin - schon gar
nicht auf den Namen. Das ist aber gar nicht der Punkt.

Ich habe keinen Grund zur Annahme, dass irgendwas an dieser Node wahr
ist. Auf meine Anfragen hat er nie reagiert (außer mit der nutzlosen
Nennenung von "Magistrat Wien" als Quelle, das hat er aber auch wieder
aufgegeben). Deshalb werde ich bis zu einem Gegenbeweis auch weiterhin
diese Nodes löschen, sobald ich darauf aufmerksam werde (dank whodidit
rss passiert das recht zeitnahe :).

Bisher hab ich die DWG nicht eingeschaltet, da er auch normale Edits
machte. Das geschah in letzter Zeit allerdings auch nicht mehr...
-- 
Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner

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[talk-au] When is a road not a road

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Warren


In this case I know the roads, I have walked, ridden a bike, and in some 
cases driven them.  They exist, but they are in a restricted area.  This 
is possibly why they do not appear on the WAMR data.  I guess my 
question includes the concept of what roads should appear on the OSM 
map.  I know this discussion has been had before.  Do we accept the MRWA 
data as an "approved" set of public roads in WA?


I understand, and agree with, Warin's point about not changing data 
without good cause.  I also understand Sam's point about the "on ground 
accuracy" of the MRWA data.




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Re: [talk-au] When is a road, not a road?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Sam Wilson
I've found that there are quite a few MRWA road centre-lines that bear
no relation to where the actual road is. Usually because there are big
lumps of granite in the way, or quarries, or other physical reasons to
re-route the road. (I guess the road-builders don't tell MRWA that they
changed things?)

But yeah, I'm taking MRWA's geometries as a guide only, and certainly
not assuming their data is 100% complete. :-) So, I'd assume that any
non-track highway that is in OSM but not in MRWA is as-currently-mapped,
and leave it be.

Also, around towns there are often MRWA residential roads with names and
classifications etc. but which haven't actually (yet) been built. These
are sometimes currently firebreaks, but sometimes just scrub.

:-)

Of course, really what we should do it get out there for some
ground-truthing to solve these questions! :-)

—Sam

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016, at 01:11 PM, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> The metadata says that it includes roads maintained by Main Roads and 
> "all roads controlled by Local Government (Local Roads) that are 
> assigned road numbers", which is great. It also has "other centreline is 
> also included for paths and unknown roads" which is a bit vague as to 
> how complete the data set is. What do the missing roads look like on 
> aerial imagery?
> 
> On 22/12/16 16:06, Warin wrote:
> > On 22-Dec-16 03:59 PM, Warren wrote:
> >> I suspect the answer to this question  is simple.
> >>
> >> Following Sam Wilson's post about the data sources available for
> >> Western Australian Roads, and using Sam's approach I have begun adding
> >> and checking road names in WA.  In  the area that I am currently
> >> working there are a number of named "roads" on  OSM (usually Highway:
> >> unclassified), that do not appear on the Main roads data.
> >>
> >> If a road is not on the Main roads database does it automatically
> >> become a named track (Highway: Track)?
> >
> > I'd leave it alone... someone thinks otherwise ... contact them for
> > their view.
> >
> > The 'Main roads database' may not include roads maintained by local
> > councils ... that does not make them OSM 'highway=track'.
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
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Re: [Talk-cz] RUIAN posun - konečné řešení?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Marián Kyral


-- Původní zpráva --
Od: Ha Noj 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 21. 12. 2016 21:11:44
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] RUIAN posun - konečné řešení?

"


> > > Pro korekci tohoto posunu se dá použít korekční Grid ( http://freegis.
fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/S-JTSK_/_Grid
(http://freegis.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/S-JTSK_/_Grid) ), který ovšem > > po změně
algoritmu nedává správná data, takže přepočet není správný.
> > *** nic takového se neprokázalo. ;)
> >
> Fááákt? A proč mám sakra tady v Beskydech ty rozdíly :-D
*** ze dvou výsledků zpravidla nelze určit, který je blíže cíli ;)


Na 28 bodů CZEPOS s obojími souřadnicemi lze naše metody elementárně 
otestovat:
http://pastebin.com/eFidfVuQ(http://pastebin.com/eFidfVuQ)

1) Výše v tomto vlákně zmíněný GRID od Seidl2014 dává tyto výsledky:
xy<8cm z<3cm
stdev_xy<2cm, stdev_z<1cm


2) Transformační služba CUZK dává tyto výsledky:
http://geoportal.cuzk.cz/Default.aspx?head_tab=sekce-01-gp=TextMeta;
text=wcts=19
(http://geoportal.cuzk.cz/Default.aspx?head_tab=sekce-01-gp=TextMeta=wcts=19)
xy<6cm z<4cm
stdev_xy<2cm, stdev_z<1cm







Tedy metody GRID jsou (a po celou doby byly) OK.



mimochodem CUZK ve WFS RUIAN u každé geometrie píše:
1.5 





"



Že já se do toho vůbec pouštěl. Nakonec to dopadlo tak, že problém vlastně 
není a všichni jsou happy.




Radši budu mapovat.


Marián



"






ha


hanoj



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Re: [talk-au] When is a road, not a road?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Andrew Davidson
The metadata says that it includes roads maintained by Main Roads and 
"all roads controlled by Local Government (Local Roads) that are 
assigned road numbers", which is great. It also has "other centreline is 
also included for paths and unknown roads" which is a bit vague as to 
how complete the data set is. What do the missing roads look like on 
aerial imagery?


On 22/12/16 16:06, Warin wrote:

On 22-Dec-16 03:59 PM, Warren wrote:

I suspect the answer to this question  is simple.

Following Sam Wilson's post about the data sources available for
Western Australian Roads, and using Sam's approach I have begun adding
and checking road names in WA.  In  the area that I am currently
working there are a number of named "roads" on  OSM (usually Highway:
unclassified), that do not appear on the Main roads data.

If a road is not on the Main roads database does it automatically
become a named track (Highway: Track)?


I'd leave it alone... someone thinks otherwise ... contact them for
their view.

The 'Main roads database' may not include roads maintained by local
councils ... that does not make them OSM 'highway=track'.

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Re: [talk-au] When is a road, not a road?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Warin

On 22-Dec-16 03:59 PM, Warren wrote:

I suspect the answer to this question  is simple.

Following Sam Wilson's post about the data sources available for 
Western Australian Roads, and using Sam's approach I have begun adding 
and checking road names in WA.  In  the area that I am currently 
working there are a number of named "roads" on  OSM (usually Highway: 
unclassified), that do not appear on the Main roads data.


If a road is not on the Main roads database does it automatically 
become a named track (Highway: Track)?


I'd leave it alone... someone thinks otherwise ... contact them for 
their view.


The 'Main roads database' may not include roads maintained by local 
councils ... that does not make them OSM 'highway=track'.


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[talk-au] When is a road, not a road?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Warren

I suspect the answer to this question  is simple.

Following Sam Wilson's post about the data sources available for Western 
Australian Roads, and using Sam's approach I have begun adding and 
checking road names in WA.  In  the area that I am currently working 
there are a number of named "roads" on  OSM (usually Highway: 
unclassified), that do not appear on the Main roads data.


If a road is not on the Main roads database does it automatically become 
a named track (Highway: Track)?




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu FR, bientôt en version 2017 !

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Christian Quest
Le 22 décembre 2016 à 01:05, Jérôme Amagat  a
écrit :

> on parle beaucoup des transport public en ce moment, ça serait bien que
> les arrets de bus, tram metro ... soit rendu qu'avec des tag
> public_transport= et aussi si ce n'est pas un node mais un way ou
> multipolygon.
>

>

Je ne pense pas que ce soit une bonne idée de forcer ainsi la main pour
adopter un modèle bien complexe pour le contributeur lambda.

Si on veut détecter les arrêts à mettre à jour, il faut le faire avec des
outils de QA comme osmose, pas avec un rendu assez généraliste.


Pour la prise en compte des polygones, je vais regarder ce qu'il est
possible de faire, mais mes souvenirs c'est qu'il est bien complexe de
prendre en compte le schéma public_transport au niveau du rendu.

On met quoi sur le rendu ? public_transport=stop_position ou
public_transport=platform ?

Si on a un highway=bus_stop comment on évite d'avoir un doublon ?

Heureusement que postgis a maintenant de quoi générer des cluster... ça va
peut être être la solution: on met tout ensemble et on fait un cluster ;)

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu FR, bientôt en version 2017 !

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Christian Quest
Le 21 décembre 2016 à 23:56,  a écrit :

> Niveau 10
> 
> :
>
> les zones militaires et zones protégées me semblent trop mises en avant.
>

La zone en elle même n'a pas changé, il n'y a que le texte qui a changé
(taille et couleur)... je vais l'assombrir un peu


> Niveau 11
> 
> :
>
> et sans doute ailleurs : pas de repliement de ligne sue la BAN de
> Lann-Bihoué mais sur Guidel-Plages.
>
>
?? lien ??


> Pourtant le nom déborde de la zone militaire.
>

ça , les noms peuvent déborder si la forme est très allongée. La taille du
texte varie avec la surface du polygone, mais pas en prenant compte sa
largeur et/ou hauteur.


> Ce rendu met bien en évidence les niveaux des routes, le Wiki ou les
> outils ne doivent pas être assez précis :
>
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#13/47.8569/-3.5315
> Pour les dédoublement de noms, soit les tuiles sont trop petites soit il y
> a encore des progrès à faire (appliquer l'algo des ref ?) :
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#17/48.38764/-4.46565
>

Difficile avec les voies à chaussées séparées. Ce sont deux lignes
distinctes et pas facile de les fusionner en une seule...



>
> En regardant là :
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#18/48.39598/-4.44701
> On se dit que c'est plus subtile : tant qu'il n'y a pas d'intersection
> inutile de répéter (sauf si très éloignés). Et si intersection alors si au
> début on met le nom, à la fin aussi, on en déduit qu'entre c'est le même
> nom.
> On peut aussi vouloir privilégier les tronçons ouest-est (rue
> Jouveau-Dubreuil : plutôt entre les numéros 52 et 29 qu'avant ou après).
> Oui ce n'est plus du peaufinage, c'est de l'art ;-).
>
>
C'est surtout un équilibre à trouver car si on ne répète pas du tout les
noms, comme on ne sait pas quelle partie de la care est visualisée sur une
petite surface (genre mobile ou petite carte en ligne), on peut très bien
ne pas avoir de nom visible pour une voie qui traverse la carte.

Aller dans le détail des intersections comme tu le suggère n'est pas simple
non plus... j'imagine la complexité des requêtes pour obtenir ces infos !



> Là aussi, mais c'est sans doute un pb côté données (une relation associant
> les différents bâtiments du collège) :
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#19/48.39819/-4.45559
>
>
Oui, clairement un problème de données...

chaque polygone de bâti a son tag amenity=school et school:FR=collège... on
a donc 4 collèges !

Un polygone englobant toute l'emprise du collège est bien sûr la solution
parce qu'en plus un collège ce n'est pas qu'un bâtiment, c'est une cour, un
parking, des terrains de sport, etc... j'ai corrigé.



> Rendu ou données incorrectes ?
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#19/48.39896/-4.40997
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.39886/-4.40977
>
>
Là je sèche...

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Building Detection using Machine Learning

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 12/22/2016 01:10 AM, john whelan wrote:
> Do we have any guidelines in the wiki etc?

Nothing specific, no.

Automated editing and/or import guidelines would apply to any such
process and I would ask everyone who overhears discussions about
"uploading" machine-detected data to OSM to point this out to those
discussing. We've already had to revert a couple hundred thousand such
edits (roads though, not buildings).

If, OTOH, an editor plugin were to help the mapper trace buildings that
the mapper identifies or at least individually verifies, that would
probably be ok, at least until HOT trains an army of monkeys with
typewriters, er keyboards, to rubber-stamp everything the algorithm puts
out ;)

More generally speaking, in my opinion the human-centered aspect of
mapping is a key property that sets us apart from other map databases.
You can safely assume that any algorithm we can run to detect buildings,
Google can run 1000 times faster and with a fraction of the error rate,
leading to 1000 times more and 10 times better data of that kind than we
can accumulate. This is not a field in which we can, or should attempt
to, compete.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk] Building Detection using Machine Learning

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden john whelan
Do we have any guidelines in the wiki etc?

I'm not intending doing any but the topic has come up once or twice and has
currently been raised in the HOT mailing list.

I'm almost certain that as the accuracy improves so the topic will come up
again and we should at least have some guidelines in the wiki about it if
they aren't already there.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Cheerio John

Quote from the HOT mailing list.

> These are the results of a test I ran on project 2101 (Rongo, Kenya -
PMI/USAID) on 1 November 2016. These images show the buildings detected by
the algorithm on the first six unstarted tasks from the project. Potential
buildings are marked with green rectangles:

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hot-osm-ml-test-data/2101_4.png
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hot-osm-ml-test-data/2101_5.png
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hot-osm-ml-test-data/2101_9.png
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hot-osm-ml-test-data/2101_12.png
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hot-osm-ml-test-data/2101_13.png
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hot-osm-ml-test-data/2101_14.png
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu FR, bientôt en version 2017 !

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Jérôme Amagat
on parle beaucoup des transport public en ce moment, ça serait bien que les
arrets de bus, tram metro ... soit rendu qu'avec des tag public_transport=
et aussi si ce n'est pas un node mais un way ou multipolygon.


Le 21 décembre 2016 à 23:56,  a écrit :

> Niveau 10
> 
> :
>
> les zones militaires et zones protégées me semblent trop mises en avant.
>
> Niveau 11
> 
> :
>
> et sans doute ailleurs : pas de repliement de ligne sue la BAN de
> Lann-Bihoué mais sur Guidel-Plages.
>
> Pourtant le nom déborde de la zone militaire.
>
> Ce rendu met bien en évidence les niveaux des routes, le Wiki ou les
> outils ne doivent pas être assez précis :
>
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#13/47.8569/-3.5315
> Pour les dédoublement de noms, soit les tuiles sont trop petites soit il y
> a encore des progrès à faire (appliquer l'algo des ref ?) :
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#17/48.38764/-4.46565
> En regardant là :
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#18/48.39598/-4.44701
> On se dit que c'est plus subtile : tant qu'il n'y a pas d'intersection
> inutile de répéter (sauf si très éloignés). Et si intersection alors si au
> début on met le nom, à la fin aussi, on en déduit qu'entre c'est le même
> nom.
> On peut aussi vouloir privilégier les tronçons ouest-est (rue
> Jouveau-Dubreuil : plutôt entre les numéros 52 et 29 qu'avant ou après).
> Oui ce n'est plus du peaufinage, c'est de l'art ;-).
>
> Là aussi, mais c'est sans doute un pb côté données (une relation associant
> les différents bâtiments du collège) :
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#19/48.39819/-4.45559
>
> Rendu ou données incorrectes ?
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_
> 99740#19/48.39896/-4.40997
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.39886/-4.40977
>
>
> 
> Le 21/12/2016 à 19:45, Christian Quest - cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit :
>
> Je profite des congés pour avancer sur le rendu FR...
>
> La liste des commit s'allonge et donne une idée des changements:
> https://github.com/cquest/osmfr-cartocss/commits/master
>
> Après avoir passé pas mal de temps sur les optimisations pour accélrer le
> rendu là où c'était le plus urgent, je suis de retour sur le côté graphique.
>
> Une grosse nouveauté: l'estompage des objets "indoor" qui devrait alléger
> les abords de certaines gares ;) Pour ça, le rendu considère tout objet
> avec un level=* négatif comme indoor.
>
> Les "shield" sur les routes sont mieux répartis. Pour cela, la requête SQL
> regroupe les différents tronçons ayant le même highway+ref car vu qu'on
> tronçonne de plus en plus il faut en passer par là !
>
> Résultat visible sur http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/test-rendu-osmfr_
> 99740#6/47.376/2.186
>
> Le pré-calcul des tuiles est en cours donc tout n'est pas encore dispo et
> peut nécessiter un délais de génération...
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] fiber=yes ?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden François Lacombe
Bonjour Jean-Yvon,

Le 18 décembre 2016 à 20:49,  a écrit :

> Je vais te proposer de mettre fin à ton dilemme :
> telecom:medium:fiber=yes
> telecom:medium:coax=yes
>
> Pas de soucis pour les armoires à usage multiple.
> Et comme il y a trois et non deux cas (yes, no, absence de tag)
>

En fait le dilemme se situait entre les listes à ; :
telecom:medium=fiber;coax et les tag "yes" : telecom:medium:fiber=yes +
telecom:medium:coax=yes
J'avais d'ailleurs reproché ça à une proposition d'extension du modèle des
écoles/universités en début d'année où trop de clés avec pour seule valeur
yes étaient utilisées.

Vu qu'il n'y a pas de solution parfaite, à mon avis les clés =yes sont
meilleures que des listes difficiles à manipuler.


> Tu veux dire : du réseau à l'armoire en fibre et de l'armoire à l'abonné
> en coax, pas que l'armoire gère des réseaux basés sur deux technologies
> différentes.
>
C'est ça, mais si l'armoire se situe à la connexion entre la fibre qui
arrive du "central" (le cmts) et le coax qui dessert les abonnés, il y a
bien deux medium différents à l'intérieur.



> Intéressant mais je ne vois pas ça dans le schéma. Non, je ne propose pas
> d'ajouter cette information mais je suis prêt à te l'entendre dire.
> Ce serait par exemple :
> telecom:service_level:FTTH pour l'armoire fibre et FTTLa pour l'armoire
> fibre/coax.
> Comme ça on n'aurait pas de valeurs multiples ? Je dis peut-être une
> connerie, ne pas hésiter à le dire, j'aurais encore appris qqc ce soir.
> Par exemple, est-ce quelque chose distingue le FTTH (H=Home, prise
> individuelle) et le FTTB (B=building, fibre à l'immeuble, autre techno
> ensuite) d'une point de vue réseau ? Est que le  FTTB n'est pas un FTTH
> suivi d'un FTTLa  (ou plutôt FTTC) dans l'immeuble ?
> http://www.ariase.com/fr/guides/fibre-optique.html
>

Intéressante cette clé telecom:service_level
En France ça peut marcher, parce qu'il n'y a pas de cas où les boucles
locales sont mélangées, certains font du FTTH, d'autres FTTLa et c'est
étanche
Par contre je crois savoir que dans d'autres pays d'Europe du nord, il
mélangent les deux dans les mêmes armoires, on va avoir le même problème
que fibre/coax.

Il est certain qu'un FTTB s'accompagne d'une techno quelconque pour rallier
l'abonné en bout de réseau (peut-être du coax via DocSis ou même du VDSL).

On ne souhaitais pas descendre à ce niveau de détail là pour l'instant
La solution avec telecom:medium:fiber=yes est la plus polyvalente.
Peut-on se risquer à utiliser medium:fiber=yes, sans telecom: ?


Bonne soirée
François
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu FR, bientôt en version 2017 !

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden osm . sanspourriel
Niveau 10 
 
:


les zones militaires et zones protégées me semblent trop mises en avant.

Niveau 11 
 
:


et sans doute ailleurs : pas de repliement de ligne sue la BAN de 
Lann-Bihoué mais sur Guidel-Plages.


Pourtant le nom déborde de la zone militaire.

Ce rendu met bien en évidence les niveaux des routes, le Wiki ou les 
outils ne doivent pas être assez précis :


http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_99740#13/47.8569/-3.5315

Pour les dédoublement de noms, soit les tuiles sont trop petites soit il 
y a encore des progrès à faire (appliquer l'algo des ref ?) :

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_99740#17/48.38764/-4.46565
En regardant là :
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_99740#18/48.39598/-4.44701
On se dit que c'est plus subtile : tant qu'il n'y a pas d'intersection 
inutile de répéter (sauf si très éloignés). Et si intersection alors si 
au début on met le nom, à la fin aussi, on en déduit qu'entre c'est le 
même nom.
On peut aussi vouloir privilégier les tronçons ouest-est (rue 
Jouveau-Dubreuil : plutôt entre les numéros 52 et 29 qu'avant ou après). 
Oui ce n'est plus du peaufinage, c'est de l'art ;-).


Là aussi, mais c'est sans doute un pb côté données (une relation 
associant les différents bâtiments du collège) :

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_99740#19/48.39819/-4.45559

Rendu ou données incorrectes ?
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/preview-rendu-fr-2017_99740#19/48.39896/-4.40997
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.39886/-4.40977

Le 21/12/2016 à 19:45, Christian Quest - cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit :

Je profite des congés pour avancer sur le rendu FR...

La liste des commit s'allonge et donne une idée des changements: 
https://github.com/cquest/osmfr-cartocss/commits/master


Après avoir passé pas mal de temps sur les optimisations pour accélrer 
le rendu là où c'était le plus urgent, je suis de retour sur le côté 
graphique.


Une grosse nouveauté: l'estompage des objets "indoor" qui devrait 
alléger les abords de certaines gares ;) Pour ça, le rendu considère 
tout objet avec un level=* négatif comme indoor.


Les "shield" sur les routes sont mieux répartis. Pour cela, la requête 
SQL regroupe les différents tronçons ayant le même highway+ref car vu 
qu'on tronçonne de plus en plus il faut en passer par là !


Résultat visible sur 
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/test-rendu-osmfr_99740#6/47.376/2.186


Le pré-calcul des tuiles est en cours donc tout n'est pas encore dispo 
et peut nécessiter un délais de génération...



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouvelles bornes Trilib'

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden osm . sanspourriel
> name 
=Trilib' 



Fin du monologue ;-).

Tu veux sans doute dire brand=Trilib' car ce n'est pas la borne qui 
s'appelle comme ça.


Jean-Yvon


Le 21/12/2016 à 19:26, Florian LAINEZ - winner...@free.fr a écrit :
Je crois que je prends le sujet beaucoup trop au sérieux, j'ai même 
fait une page wiki sur le sujet : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/FR:Trilib


Le 19 décembre 2016 à 12:41, Florian LAINEZ > a écrit :


Bon ben on a une réponse : ça sera dispo bientôt ;)
https://twitter.com/EcoEmballagesSA/status/810810802412408833


Du coup, quitte à faire un monologue sur cette liste, je pense que
je vais également me féliciter en sus.
Et bonne journée à tous !

Le 19 décembre 2016 à 12:30, Florian LAINEZ > a écrit :

Hello,
De nouvelles bornes de recyclages Trilib' sont actuellement
installées dans les rues de Paris. Plus de détails sur ces
bornes : http://www.ecoemballages.fr/trilib

J'en ai rajouté une ici :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4561625761


Les emplacements (sans précision sur la licence) sont ici :

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1I4BmDUuK6_BhAygXB_KqT2hmiOA=48.8571767956718%2C2.36557134982=12



J'ai envoyé un tweet et un email au contact indiqué sur le
flyer pour obtenir une précision sur la licence ... avec un
peu de chance on aura ça dans OSMOSE d'ici noël ;)

Je vous tiens au courant si j'ai un retour
++

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@overflorian 




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Re: [Talk-pe] rutas en Peru

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Robert David Ascuña Cardenas
Hola de nuevo,
me tarde un poco porque me puse a revisar los casos de las vías que mencionabas.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:24:37 -0500, joost schouppe  
wrote:

> Sobre highway=road: entiendo muy bien que uno prefiere mapear en categoria
> general, mas bien que categoria equivocado. Pero categorizando una via
> obviamente carrozable como "podria ser camino, podria ser senda o sendero"
> met parece peor. Yo sugereria marcar como highway=unclassified con
> fixme="revisar clasificacion". Como consumento de los datos, un prefiere
> viajar por un camino con clasificacion equivocado, mas que viajar por un
> desvio gigante.

En caso sea una vía de importancia, carrozable como dices, y que por ejemplo 
sirva como única conexión entre dos poblados entonces se podría usar la 
clasificación que viene después de highway=tertiary que vendría a ser 
highway=unclassified. Ambos tipos tertiary y unclassified hasta donde sé no 
cuentan con un equivalente en la clasificación oficial por lo tanto, en mi 
opinión, ambos se podrían usar según criterios como los que mencionaste.

> Sobre clasificaciones: estoy de la opinion que trunk y motorway deberian
> estar reservado a caminos con un minimo de calidad. La calidad a veces
> tiene que ver con quien lo opera (la nacion o alguna entidad subnacionale),
> pero muchas veces no. Me gusta mas la filosofia del Highway Tag Africa (la
> inspiracion de la propuesto Boliviana). Clasificacion depende de
> importancia. Pero esta propuesta no necesita highway=trunk. Asi que esta
> libre para caminos que son importantes y de alta calidad.

Tengo entendido que en lo posible OpenStreetMap procura estar basado en la 
información oficial siempre que esta esté disponible, no sé si eso será lo 
recomendable por cierto y me gustaría saber que opinan los demás, especialmente 
aquellos que saben un poco más del tema. Por el momento, en la wiki de las 
convenciones para Perú podemos observar que hay una clara correspondencia entre 
ambas clasificaciones: vías nacionales (trunk, motorway), vías 
regionales/departamentales (primary), vías provinciales/interdistritales 
(secondary). Anteriormente se discutió esta clasificación en esta lista de 
correo, y si no me equivoco, en parte nos basamos en la clasificación que 
usaban en Argentina.

> En mi mail anterior habia un ejemplo, pero aparamente me olvidé poner
> numero de la ruta. La foto es del PE-34E. El PE-35K mientras tanto es de
> calidad mucho mejor. Pero ambos caminos de tierra.
>> http://i.imgur.com/N97JNwI.jpg
>>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=osrm_car=-14.9942%2C-71.3153%3B-14.7941%2C-71.4115#map=12/-14.8978/-71.3009

Ambas vías nacionales, PE-34E y PE-3SK según el MTC [1], están clasificadas 
como highway=primary, si uno es de mejor calidad que la otra, opino que sería 
mejor agregar más etiquetas con estos detalles en vez de cambiarles la 
clasificación y esperar que los usuarios chequearan estos datos antes de elegir 
una u otra vía.

> Otro ejemplo de experiencia personal: la PE-35L es mas corta que PE-32A +
> PE35, pero es de velocidad practica mas bajo, y mucho mas angosto (lo
> marqué como lanes=1 hace tiempo, no sé si es la mejor idea)
>>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=mapzen_car=-13.1654%2C-74.2219%3B-13.3936%2C-73.9174#map=11/-13.2917/-73.9970

Estas vías no están acorde a la clasificación oficial. Las denominaciones 
correctas, según el MTC [1], para esas vías nacionales son PE-3SL y PE-3S en 
vez de PE-35L y PE-32A+PE-35 respectivamente. Pareciera que considerando la 
denominación la vía PE-3S es más importante que la PE-3SL.

> En esta zona hay dos PE-3N, y me parece correcto que esta parte no es
> marcado como trunk, ya que el otro parte es mucho mejor:
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/-10.6364/-76.2154

El mismo caso, según la documentación oficial [1] la vía PE-3N actualmente 
clasificada como highway=trunk es la correcta, la vía clasificada como 
highway=primary debería tener como denominación vía PA-545 y ser clasificada 
como highway=secondary.

> Aca el PE-08B tambien es camino asfaltada, pero bastante angosta (hay unos
> cuantos fotos en mapillary de la zona). No podria pasar un camion.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/-6.8093/-77.9325

La vía nacional PE-08B clasificada como highway=trunk permite comunicar 
directamente las ciudades de Cajamarca y Chachapoyas por medio terrestre. He 
intentado encontrar un ruta alterna para llegar de una ciudad a otra, sin 
embargo esta vía parece ser la más directa.

Resumiendo, me he tomado el tiempo de comprobar cada una de las rutas que haz 
citado, y en algunos casos he comprobado que la clasificación actual no 
coincide con la clasificación oficial del MTC [1]. Por lo tanto estaría 
pendiente primero hacer una verificación y corrección para que la data de OSM 
coincida con la clasificación oficial. Con esto creo que muchas de las dudas 
que planteaste se resolverían, ya que la confusión ha sido en parte debido a 

Re: [talk-au] Local Government Areas without Councils

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Warin

On 21-Dec-16 05:10 PM, Warin wrote:

Hummm
How about looking at it from a data consumers view point?
Who would use boundary level 6  and what for?

A resident/occupier/potential purchaser/developer may want to know who 
is the relevant authority for a particular property ...
A new employee many want confirmation of the boundaries of the 
authority they are working for.

 I suppose you could ask a real estate agent (joke) or look in OSM ...
If you are in one of these 'unincorporated areas' then with Andrew's' 
'rule' you won't get an answer.. not much help.


I would think that the 'rule' is easily expanded to include 
unincorporated areas.
What is/are  the objection/s to this expansion? Other than 'it is not 
in the wiki'.


 On 21-Dec-16 11:35 AM, Andrew Davidson wrote:

It's pretty simple:

1. Admin level 6 boundaries are supposed to enclose a "Local 
Government Authority".


2. In NSW the only form of "Local Government Authority" are councils 
incorporated under the Local Government Act.


3. The areas covered by these councils are "incorporated areas".

4. The three polygons in the LPI dataset labelled "UNINCORPORATED" 
represent areas that are not in the "incorporated areas" and 
therefore have no "Local Government Authority".


5. You don't put boundaries around things that don't exist.


Unincorporated areas exit.
They form a similar role to 'Local Councils'.
The areas do not overlap, in fact sharing the same ways/part boundaries.
There would be no data conflict in adding these to boundary level 6.


Looking at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#10_admin_level_values_for_specific_countries 

the United kingdom for level 6 boundary has "administrative counties / 
Unitary authorities , 
City of London"


And the wiki on Unitary authorities 
 says in part "type of 
local authority that has a single tier and is responsible for all local 
government  functions 
within its area"








QED.

The SA case is complicated by the existence of the Outback 
Communities Authority. According to the Office of Local Government 
it's not included:


http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/local_govt.

Which is supported by the fact that the name includes the phrase 
"unincorporated area".


On 2016-12-21 09:15, cleary wrote:


I have been adding administrative boundaries in NSW and SA using the
Government data for which OSM has been given explicit permission. I am
currently working on the "Pastoral Unincorporated Area" in SA and
another mapper commented that it was inappropriate. I responded but my
response appears not to have satisfied the other mapper.  I then found
that the same mapper had deleted the "Unincorporated Area of New South
Wales" because it was not administered by a council.

Both of these "unincorporated" areas are defined and designated in the
respective government datasets, that is (1) South Australian Government
Data - Local Government Areas and (2) LPI NSW Administrative Boundaries
- Local Government.

The issue for the other mapper appears to be the acceptability of the
form of governance of these areas. While the majority of local
government areas are administered by councils, this model works less
well in areas which are sparsely populated. The Pastoral Unincorporated
Area in South Australia is administered by a designated authority, the
Outback Communities Authority, which is not a council either in name or
in the usual sense. I am aware of three other designated local
government areas in South Australia that do not have councils - two are
administered by the indigenous residents although they appear to have
some form of executive committee to make routine decisions. One
designated local government area does not appear to have a council 
and I
have not ascertained the form of governance.  In the Unincorporated 
Area

of New South Wales, responsibilities are dispersed and do not rest with
any one body, for example roads are managed by the Roads and Maritime
Services (state authority) and there are local advisory committees in
some isolated communities.

The key issue is whether the form of governance in an area should
determine whether or not areas should be mapped in OSM. It seems to me
to be akin to removing Northern Territory and ACT on the basis that 
they

have different forms of governance and are not proper states!

The comments on the Pastoral Unincorporated Area can be viewed at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/44528330#map=12/-34.3720/140.4687 


The relation for the Pastoral Unincorporated Area is at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6804541
The deleted relation for Unincorporated Area of New South Wales is at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5892272 and refers to Changeset
#44531564

Do other members of the OSM community have a view on whether the 
form of

governance should determine what areas are shown 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] intégration des référentiels STIF

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden lenny.libre

h


Le 16/12/2016 à 17:36, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :


Le 16 décembre 2016 à 13:01, lenny.libre > a écrit :


Ne faudrait-il pas quelque part, une récapitulation


Un genre de Base d'Arrêts de Transport Ouverte ? ^^
Contributions bienvenues : https://github.com/BATO-FR/bato_inventaire
je ne pensais pas à quelque chose d'aussi immense ; mais je pensais, 
suite au mail de réponse de Jean-Yvon à Noémie à un tableau 
récapitulatif dans le wiki qui permettrait de choisir l'éventuelle ville 
à traiter après STIF ou à Osmose.


Mais là je viens de découvrir bato. C'est tellement vaste... je ne 
comprends pas tout et je ne vois pas où je pourrais contribuer avec mes 
petits moyens : je prends une ligne, je la complète si nécessaire, 
j'aboute les tronçons avec JOSM, je corrige les giratoires (que certains 
découpent pour leur besoin sans se préoccuper des autres lignes) je 
complète les arrêts si nécessaire (avec l'aide des openData ou ce que je 
vois sur place).


Les transports scolaires sont-ils compris dans bato ?
Dans les slides du Cerema, je trouvé un point qui me parait difficile à 
obtenir :
"IMPORTANT : attribution des identifiants pérennes !(id OSM et id 
Transport)"


Je ne vois pas comment l'id OSM peut être pérenne : prés de chez moi, 
j'ai trouvé deux arrêts, qui en fait n'en était qu'un (un contributeur à 
créé l'arrêt initial, entre temps l'opérateur à changé et un autre 
contributeur à créé un autre arrêt) je suis allé vérifier sur place, 
j'ai mis à jour l'un des deux et j'ai supprimé l'autre : quel était 
celui qui avait un id pérenne ???


cordialement
Léni


*Florian Lainez*

@overflorian 

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Re: [Talk-at] Peter Paul

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Hakuch
On 21.12.2016 17:32, Friedrich Volkmann wrote:
> Wegen so einer Kleinigkeit scheint es mir übertrieben, die DWG zu
> bemühen, und ich habe mich mit dem Teil Wiens nicht genug beschäftigt um
> den Namen dieses Berges beurteilen zu können. 

Falls es sich wirklich als Problem herausstellen sollte, könnte man die
DWG schon um eine 0Stunden Sperre bitten da der User ja nicht auf
Anfragen reagiert, evtl. hat er eine nicht mehr aktive Emailadresse
eingestellt oder sowas.

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Re: [Talk-cz] RUIAN posun - konečné řešení?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Ha Noj
> > > Pro korekci tohoto posunu se dá použít korekční Grid (
http://freegis.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/S-JTSK_/_Grid ), který ovšem > > po změně
algoritmu nedává správná data, takže přepočet není správný.
> > *** nic takového se neprokázalo. ;)
> >
> Fááákt? A proč mám sakra tady v Beskydech ty rozdíly :-D
*** ze dvou výsledků zpravidla nelze určit, který je blíže cíli ;)

Na 28 bodů CZEPOS s obojími souřadnicemi lze naše metody elementárně
otestovat:
http://pastebin.com/eFidfVuQ

1) Výše v tomto vlákně zmíněný GRID od Seidl2014 dává tyto výsledky:
xy<8cm z<3cm
stdev_xy<2cm, stdev_z<1cm


2) Transformační služba CUZK dává tyto výsledky:
http://geoportal.cuzk.cz/Default.aspx?head_tab=sekce-01-gp=TextMeta=wcts=19
xy<6cm z<4cm
stdev_xy<2cm, stdev_z<1cm

Tedy metody GRID jsou (a po celou doby byly) OK.

mimochodem CUZK ve WFS RUIAN u každé geometrie píše:
1.5


ha
hanoj
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] cartes.xyz / bad request

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Guillaume AMAT

Pas mieux, merci Éric pour la réponse.

Je profite de ce fil de discussion sur MapContrib pour vous dire que la 
version 1.0.0 pourrait arriver par la cheminée ce week-end, mais chut ^^


Bon réveillon à tous,
Guillaume


Le 21/12/2016 à 20:39, Éric Gillet a écrit :
Le 21 décembre 2016 à 19:53, Florian LAINEZ > a écrit :


Désolé de relancer le sujet mais j'ai créé une nouvelle carte des
bornes Trilib' à Paris
https://www.cartes.xyz/t/fcd984-Bornes_Trilib

Cette fois j'ai bien retenu la leçon et je n'ai pas mis de requête
overpass-turbo mais bien une requête API overpass.
J'ai toujours le même soucis : bad request ... help !


Il faut mettre la requête Overpass en elle-même et pas une URL vers 
l'API Overpass :

https://www.cartes.xyz/t/34563d-MapContrib


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] cartes.xyz / bad request

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Éric Gillet
Le 21 décembre 2016 à 19:53, Florian LAINEZ  a écrit :

> Désolé de relancer le sujet mais j'ai créé une nouvelle carte des bornes
> Trilib' à Paris https://www.cartes.xyz/t/fcd984-Bornes_Trilib
> Cette fois j'ai bien retenu la leçon et je n'ai pas mis de requête
> overpass-turbo mais bien une requête API overpass.
> J'ai toujours le même soucis : bad request ... help !
>

Il faut mettre la requête Overpass en elle-même et pas une URL vers l'API
Overpass :
https://www.cartes.xyz/t/34563d-MapContrib
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] cartes.xyz / bad request

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Florian LAINEZ
Désolé de relancer le sujet mais j'ai créé une nouvelle carte des bornes
Trilib' à Paris https://www.cartes.xyz/t/fcd984-Bornes_Trilib
Cette fois j'ai bien retenu la leçon et je n'ai pas mis de requête
overpass-turbo mais bien une requête API overpass.
J'ai toujours le même soucis : bad request ... help !

Le 13 décembre 2016 à 12:00, Jean-Claude Repetto  a écrit
:

> Le 13/12/2016 à 09:09, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :
> > Je pense que l'on doit arrêter les aspects techniques mapcontrib sur
> > cette liste, je ne suis pas sur que cela soit à sa place ? Avis ?
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Pour les discussions techniques, il y a la liste dev-fr.
>
> Jean-Claude
>
>
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>



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[OSM-talk-fr] Rendu FR, bientôt en version 2017 !

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Christian Quest
Je profite des congés pour avancer sur le rendu FR...

La liste des commit s'allonge et donne une idée des changements:
https://github.com/cquest/osmfr-cartocss/commits/master

Après avoir passé pas mal de temps sur les optimisations pour accélrer le
rendu là où c'était le plus urgent, je suis de retour sur le côté graphique.

Une grosse nouveauté: l'estompage des objets "indoor" qui devrait alléger
les abords de certaines gares ;) Pour ça, le rendu considère tout objet
avec un level=* négatif comme indoor.

Les "shield" sur les routes sont mieux répartis. Pour cela, la requête SQL
regroupe les différents tronçons ayant le même highway+ref car vu qu'on
tronçonne de plus en plus il faut en passer par là !

Résultat visible sur
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/test-rendu-osmfr_99740#6/47.376/2.186

Le pré-calcul des tuiles est en cours donc tout n'est pas encore dispo et
peut nécessiter un délais de génération...


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Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Fwd: [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden John Marshall
Great new. The local OSM mappers are looking forward to adding this data
set.

John Marshall

On Dec 21, 2016 09:41, "James"  wrote:

> Just to give an update, Ottawa has finally approved moving the building
> outlines to the open data portal. The person responsible is on vacation and
> will be back the 9th of January 2017 and expect it to be live by the end of
> that week.
>
> So with data source not being publicly available, are there any other road
> blocks that are stopping this import from progressing?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Christoph Hormann 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday 25 October 2016, Kevin Farrugia wrote:
>> >
>> > Planimetrics represent whatever the ground condition was when the
>> > data was created and updated, which is almost always done with high
>> > res orthoimagery. If someone demolishes a shed in their backyard, the
>> > city would likely need to notice it visually. Every place does it
>> > differently, but that's likely what happens.
>>
>> Actually i was referring to the use of the term "CAD drawings" which
>> clearly indicates a planning component (with the 'D' standing for
>> design) - but you probably have just used the term in a different way
>> than how i understood it.
>>
>> --
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>> http://www.imagico.de/
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouvelles bornes Trilib'

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Florian LAINEZ
Je crois que je prends le sujet beaucoup trop au sérieux, j'ai même fait
une page wiki sur le sujet :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/FR:Trilib

Le 19 décembre 2016 à 12:41, Florian LAINEZ  a écrit :

> Bon ben on a une réponse : ça sera dispo bientôt ;)
> https://twitter.com/EcoEmballagesSA/status/810810802412408833
>
> Du coup, quitte à faire un monologue sur cette liste, je pense que je vais
> également me féliciter en sus.
> Et bonne journée à tous !
>
> Le 19 décembre 2016 à 12:30, Florian LAINEZ  a écrit :
>
>> Hello,
>> De nouvelles bornes de recyclages Trilib' sont actuellement installées
>> dans les rues de Paris. Plus de détails sur ces bornes :
>> http://www.ecoemballages.fr/trilib
>> J'en ai rajouté une ici : https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4561625761
>>
>> Les emplacements (sans précision sur la licence) sont ici :
>> https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1I4BmDUuK6_BhAy
>> gXB_KqT2hmiOA=48.8571767956718%2C2.36557134982=12
>>
>> J'ai envoyé un tweet et un email au contact indiqué sur le flyer pour
>> obtenir une précision sur la licence ... avec un peu de chance on aura ça
>> dans OSMOSE d'ici noël ;)
>>
>> Je vous tiens au courant si j'ai un retour
>> ++
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Florian Lainez*
>> @overflorian 
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Florian Lainez*
> @overflorian 
>



-- 

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@overflorian 
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Re: [Talk-at] Peter Paul

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Friedrich Volkmann

On 21.12.2016 18:07, Stefan Kopetzky wrote:

Ich bin dort in der Nähe aufgewachsen und wohn auch immer noch im NW von
Wien. Die Bezeichnung taucht mW irgendwann in den letzten 10 Jahren auf.
Davor hätt ichs nie gehört. was aber auch an mir liegen kann. Dafür ist
es halt jetzt schon ziemlich weit verbreitet. Kann natürlich auch sein,
weil die ganzen Tools (etwa diese Gipfelpanoramenbenamser) OSM-Daten nutzen.


Mit Google findest du in dem Fall nur OSM-Daten. Interessant wären nur 
Nachweise aus der Zeit vorm 20. Juli 2012, denn an dem Tag wurde der 
Peter-Paul-Berg in OSM angelegt.



Grundsätzlich gibts keinen Grund den Node ganz zu löschen (oder tauchen
Gipfel ohne name nicht mehr auf bei mapnik?). Der "Gipfel" an und für
sich ist ja da, und die Höhe ist auch nicht verkehrt.


Den Gipfel ganz zu löschen ist eh kein Thema, es geht nur um den Namen.

--
Friedrich K. Volkmann   http://www.volki.at/
Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Christian Quest
Un peu d'explication: Rennes Métropole différencie en fait la notion
d'adresse et de bâtiment aussi pour une raison réglementaire très simple:
- les numéros d'adresses (y compris bis/ter) sont attribué officiellement
par le maire de la commune
- les autres extensions (A/B/C/D pour différencier des bâtiments) ne sont
pas forcément attribuées par le maire.

Est-ce que des A/B/C/D sont attribués par des maires ? OUI, aussi, donc on
ne peut pas généraliser ce qui se fait à Rennes.

Il n'y a aucun règle en la matière, malheureusement.


Le 21 décembre 2016 à 16:50, Julien Lepiller  a écrit :

> Bon, ça ne m'avance pas tellement tout ça... Si je comprends bien, il n'y
> a pas de consensus concernant l'espace ou non. Concernant l'import depuis
> les données de Rennes Métropole, il faudrait le corriger pour qu'il inclue
> aussi les lettres (A, B, ...) des bâtiments. Dans l'immédiat, est-il
> possible de rendre osmose insensible aux espaces dans le numéro ?
>
> En parlant d'adresses en double et d'anecdote, je connais un cas où
> plusieurs bâtiments distincts ont la même adresse postale.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/269025821 et
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26902 sont tous les deux situés au
> 420, chemin des chaussièyes ainsi que les bâtiments voisins. Ce n'est
> d'ailleurs même pas le nom du chemin auquel ces bâtiments sont rattachés,
> mais d'un autre plus loin. Les boîtes aux lettres sont toutes regroupées
> plus loin, au niveau du croisement entre le chemin du Pélissier et le
> chemin sans nom qui donne à ces maisons. Comment devrais-je m'y prendre
> pour ajouter ces adresses ? Un point par maison, ou un seul point au niveau
> des boîtes aux lettres ?
>
> Le 2016-12-21 16:07, Mathias Jérôme a écrit :
>
>> Bien sûr des contre exemples il y aura à la pelle..j'énonçais
>> seulement des généralités et on aura aussi les 10-1 , 10-2 , 10-3 ,
>> 10-4 à la place de ce que voulez.
>> Ce qui est sûr c'est que c'est de la numérotation dans tous les cas,
>> ce qui plaide pour le mettre tout ce qui est numérotation avec la
>> numérotation (ou dans le même "mot" ce qui reviens au même).
>>
>> -
>>  DE : Florian_G 
>> À : Discussions sur OSM en français 
>> ENVOYÉ LE : Mercredi 21 décembre 2016 14h20
>> OBJET : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Le 20/12/2016 à 20:44, Mathias Jérôme a écrit :
>>
>> Les bis, ter etc... sont des indices de répétitions, mais les
>>> A,B,C etc... sont plutôt ce que j'appellerais des indices de
>>> déclinaisons (dans le cas du 36bis c'est que le 36 existe (ou
>>> existait) et est (était)  vraiment distinct, tandis que le 36A il
>>> est souvent situé au situé au 36, de même que le 36B se situera
>>> aussi au 36 , de fait les A,B,C,etc... sont souvent de la
>>> numérotation d'ordre "privative" : accès ou cages d'escaliers).
>>>
>>
>> Petit contre-exemple :
>>
>> *
>> OSM :
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/253831784#map=19/49.13026/6.15980
>> * Google :
>> https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.130211,6.1595164,3a,51y,332.
>> 26h,91.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soFRU1NinEVLGt68Nufyx0A!2e0!
>> 7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
>>
>> Ce 13 A aurait pu être un 13 bis, mais c'est bien un 13 A, autonome,
>> distinct et non dépendant du 13 (qui est bien une autre maison). Les
>> parcelles cadastrales sont d'ailleurs différentes, mais ce n'est pas
>> déterminant (au mieux un indice).
>> En fait, c'est, selon moi, juste une norme de numérotation
>> différente ; que ce soit numéro "n bis" ou numéro "n A", les
>> bâtiments numérotés "n" et "n+1" étant déjà construits ou
>> prévus, il fallait donc bien trouver une astuce au moment de la mise
>> en place du numéro entre les deux. Pour l'anecdote, il existe même
>> un 0 bis à Metz, avant le 2, mais pas de 0 ! →
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/72882228#map=19/49.11648/6.18358
>> Mes 2 centimes... 
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Notes for places removed from FHRS?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden SK53
I really don't have to justify how we in Nottingham have chosen to tag
things, or what we map. This has evolved as a local consensus and works
fine for us.

However, we have found retaining older information invaluable for numerous
purposes related to maintaining up-to-date data within OSM. In particular
those places whose occupants tend to be ephemeral, or which change names
frequently (marginal retail locations, nightclubs & some takeaways) can
often be linked to open data if and only if one knows one of the previous
names.

Additionally, locals will often refer to places/shops etc. by former
long-standing names. A good example of this is a restaurant who's name
escapes me, but if I call it The Priory, locals will know exactly where I
mean. In its previous guise as a Toby Carvery it was generally also known
by this name.

Lastly photographs get outdated and the ability to accurately locate a
photo can often be assisted if former business names are available for
cross-checking. This applies obviously to Mapillary & OpenStreetCam, but
also Geograph and my own personal photos which, for OSM purposes go back to
2009.

Jerry

On 21 December 2016 at 15:01, Dave F  wrote:

> Hi Andrew
>
> I wouldn't use FHRS:ID as the be all & end all. It doesn't mean they've
> closed down. On the ground verification is required. Depending on a local
> authority's preferences, existing companies changing a name, or a manager
> can trigger a new ID. Schools becoming academies in my area were given new
> ones.
>
> When a business closes down I fully delete the FHRS:ID. If a new one opens
> in the same premises I add the available data for it. This doesn't usually
> include FHRS, at first, as a premises has to be open for a while to gain a
> worthwhile rating.
>
> Comment on SK53:
> It's been agreed by many that OSM is not a historical store, but a record
> of what's currently there. Imagine how clogged the database would become if
> all historical data was retained or even added, as some wish to do. (I live
> in a Roman City, it would be a complete mess)
>
> Cheers
> DaveF
>
> On 21/12/2016 13:05, Andrew Hain wrote:
>
>
> Richmond has updated its FHRS records and two entries that previously
> appeared in the list are now reported as unresolved in the GregRS tool.
> Should I add notes that they are no longer in FHRS and should be checked in
> the ground or is adding notes from public quality assurance tools a bad
> idea?
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-cz] RUIAN posun - konečné řešení?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Marián Kyral
Dne 21.12.2016 v 16:16 Ha Noj napsal(a):
> 0   > Teoreticky bych se u každé budovy mohl zeptat WFS a korigované
> souřadnice, ale je to zase další dotaz do sítě, další zdržení během
> trasování.
> *** tak se zeptejme WFS předem hromadně přes BBOX či podobně.
>

Tak jestli se budu někdy nudit, tak se na to možná kouknu.

> > Pro korekci tohoto posunu se dá použít korekční Grid (
> http://freegis.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/S-JTSK_/_Grid
>  ), který ovšem po
> > změně algoritmu nedává správná data, takže přepočet není správný.
> *** nic takového se neprokázalo. ;)
>

Fááákt? A proč mám sakra tady v Beskydech ty rozdíly :-D

> > No a celé je to o tom, jak získat opravený Grid, aby objekty
> natrasované z RUIANu co nejvíce pasovaly na KM.
> > Proběhly tady nějaké pokusy, byla na to diplomka, pan Souček z ČÚZK
> slíbil, že se přes vánoce na ten algoritmus
> > mrkne a dá vědět, který přesně se používá, ale zatím vše selhalo.
> Takže se stále pro přepočet používá starý Grid, který
> > však nedává přesné výsledky.
> *** ještě bych možná dodal, že ČUZK používá 7prvkový klíč +
> dotransformaci(JTSK-JTSK05), kdežto grid jde na to přímo.
>
>

Já nemluvit jazyk tvého kmene.

Marián

> ha
> hanoj
>
>
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Re: [Talk-at] Peter Paul

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Stefan Kopetzky
On 2016-12-21 17:32, Friedrich Volkmann wrote:
> In Wien benennt ein User regelmäßig einen Berg anscheinend nach sich
> selber, unbeeindruckt davon, dass der Name jedes Mal wieder gelöscht
> wird. Meine PN scheint er nicht wahrgenommen zu haben.
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/peterpp/history
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/510342
> 
> Wegen so einer Kleinigkeit scheint es mir übertrieben, die DWG zu
> bemühen, und ich habe mich mit dem Teil Wiens nicht genug beschäftigt um
> den Namen dieses Berges beurteilen zu können. Irgendwelche Meinungen
> oder Ideen? Sonst könnte man noch am Bezirksmuseum nachfragen oder in
> der Nähe des Berges nach Joggern oder Gassigehern Ausschau halten, denn
> die kann man noch am ehesten als ortskundige Einheimische ansehen.

Ich bin dort in der Nähe aufgewachsen und wohn auch immer noch im NW von
Wien. Die Bezeichnung taucht mW irgendwann in den letzten 10 Jahren auf.
Davor hätt ichs nie gehört. was aber auch an mir liegen kann. Dafür ist
es halt jetzt schon ziemlich weit verbreitet. Kann natürlich auch sein,
weil die ganzen Tools (etwa diese Gipfelpanoramenbenamser) OSM-Daten nutzen.

"Kahlengebirge", hab ich so auch noch nie gehört...
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gipfel_des_Kahlengebirges.jpg

Grundsätzlich gibts keinen Grund den Node ganz zu löschen (oder tauchen
Gipfel ohne name nicht mehr auf bei mapnik?). Der "Gipfel" an und für
sich ist ja da, und die Höhe ist auch nicht verkehrt.

LG,
Stefan

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[Talk-at] Peter Paul

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Friedrich Volkmann
In Wien benennt ein User regelmäßig einen Berg anscheinend nach sich selber, 
unbeeindruckt davon, dass der Name jedes Mal wieder gelöscht wird. Meine PN 
scheint er nicht wahrgenommen zu haben.


http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/peterpp/history
http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/510342

Wegen so einer Kleinigkeit scheint es mir übertrieben, die DWG zu bemühen, 
und ich habe mich mit dem Teil Wiens nicht genug beschäftigt um den Namen 
dieses Berges beurteilen zu können. Irgendwelche Meinungen oder Ideen? Sonst 
könnte man noch am Bezirksmuseum nachfragen oder in der Nähe des Berges nach 
Joggern oder Gassigehern Ausschau halten, denn die kann man noch am ehesten 
als ortskundige Einheimische ansehen.


--
Friedrich K. Volkmann   http://www.volki.at/
Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria

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Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2016-12-17

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Marc Gemis
On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Martijn van Exel
 wrote:
> There's also garmin.openstreetmap.nl where you can define your own custom
> bounding box for generating Garmin routable map files. Perhaps that helps.

Lately several people reported errors with this service.
You could use http://extract.bbbike.org/ as an alternative

regards

m

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Re: [Talk-de] Import Gehwegdaten Heidelberg

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Jakob Miksch

Hallo,

vielen Dank schonmal für die genaue Prüfung!

On 17.12.2016 20:58, Joachim Kast wrote:


"source:sidewalk_attributes" wurde fälschlicherweise auch an alle Knoten
der bearbeiteten Straßen gehängt.


Stimmt, das ist falsch und wird korrigiert.


"paved" ist als Oberflächenbeschaffenheit etwas ungenau. Was außer
Asphalt und Gehwegplatten ist damit gemeint?
Als "paved" wurde alles getagged, was im Referenzdatensatz als 
"Platte/Pflaster" kategorisiert war.



In der Mönchhofstraße [2] und Umgebung wurden die baulich getrennten
Fuß-/Radwege nicht berücksichtigt. Die Oberflächenbeschaffenheit gehört
an diese und nicht an die Straße. Da eure Tags an keinem Footway,
Cycleway oder Path zu finden sind, wurde dies bisher wohl komplett
übersehen.

Das stimmt. Auch das wird korrigiert!

Was bedeuteten die Werte für "decke" in dem Shapefile? Könnten daraus
surface und smoothness genauer abgeleitet werden?


"decke" ist der Code für die Strassendecke  (z.B Asphalt, 
Platte/Pflaster). "smoothness" kann tendenziell nicht abgeleitet werden, 
da der Datensatz die Art der Oberfläche enthält, nicht jedoch deren 
Beschaffenheit.




Da ihr die Gegend kennt: Wieviel Prozent der Wege werden vor dem
Hochladen auf Plausibilität und Aktualität überprüft? Ab welcher dabei
festgestellten Fehlerquote wird alles nochmal gegengeprüft?


Wir wissen noch nicht wieviel Prozent wir genau prüfen werden. Das kommt 
erst im zweiten Schritt. Erstmal möchte ich herausfinden ob der Upload 
der Daten prinzipiell möglich ist bzw. von der Community überhaupt 
akzeptiert wird.
Es ist auf jeden Fall ein guter Einwand die Plausibilität und Aktualität 
der Daten mit einer Fehlerquote zu messen.


Momentan prüfe ich nochmal die Sache mit der Lizenz.

Viele Grüße,
Jakob


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Julien Lepiller
Bon, ça ne m'avance pas tellement tout ça... Si je comprends bien, il 
n'y a pas de consensus concernant l'espace ou non. Concernant l'import 
depuis les données de Rennes Métropole, il faudrait le corriger pour 
qu'il inclue aussi les lettres (A, B, ...) des bâtiments. Dans 
l'immédiat, est-il possible de rendre osmose insensible aux espaces dans 
le numéro ?


En parlant d'adresses en double et d'anecdote, je connais un cas où 
plusieurs bâtiments distincts ont la même adresse postale. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/269025821 et 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26902 sont tous les deux situés au 
420, chemin des chaussièyes ainsi que les bâtiments voisins. Ce n'est 
d'ailleurs même pas le nom du chemin auquel ces bâtiments sont 
rattachés, mais d'un autre plus loin. Les boîtes aux lettres sont toutes 
regroupées plus loin, au niveau du croisement entre le chemin du 
Pélissier et le chemin sans nom qui donne à ces maisons. Comment 
devrais-je m'y prendre pour ajouter ces adresses ? Un point par maison, 
ou un seul point au niveau des boîtes aux lettres ?


Le 2016-12-21 16:07, Mathias Jérôme a écrit :

Bien sûr des contre exemples il y aura à la pelle..j'énonçais
seulement des généralités et on aura aussi les 10-1 , 10-2 , 10-3 ,
10-4 à la place de ce que voulez.
Ce qui est sûr c'est que c'est de la numérotation dans tous les cas,
ce qui plaide pour le mettre tout ce qui est numérotation avec la
numérotation (ou dans le même "mot" ce qui reviens au même).

-
 DE : Florian_G 
À : Discussions sur OSM en français 
ENVOYÉ LE : Mercredi 21 décembre 2016 14h20
OBJET : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis

Hello,

Le 20/12/2016 à 20:44, Mathias Jérôme a écrit :


Les bis, ter etc... sont des indices de répétitions, mais les
A,B,C etc... sont plutôt ce que j'appellerais des indices de
déclinaisons (dans le cas du 36bis c'est que le 36 existe (ou
existait) et est (était)  vraiment distinct, tandis que le 36A il
est souvent situé au situé au 36, de même que le 36B se situera
aussi au 36 , de fait les A,B,C,etc... sont souvent de la
numérotation d'ordre "privative" : accès ou cages d'escaliers).


Petit contre-exemple :

*
OSM :
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/253831784#map=19/49.13026/6.15980
* Google :
https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.130211,6.1595164,3a,51y,332.26h,91.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soFRU1NinEVLGt68Nufyx0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Ce 13 A aurait pu être un 13 bis, mais c'est bien un 13 A, autonome,
distinct et non dépendant du 13 (qui est bien une autre maison). Les
parcelles cadastrales sont d'ailleurs différentes, mais ce n'est pas
déterminant (au mieux un indice).
En fait, c'est, selon moi, juste une norme de numérotation
différente ; que ce soit numéro "n bis" ou numéro "n A", les
bâtiments numérotés "n" et "n+1" étant déjà construits ou
prévus, il fallait donc bien trouver une astuce au moment de la mise
en place du numéro entre les deux. Pour l'anecdote, il existe même
un 0 bis à Metz, avant le 2, mais pas de 0 ! →
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/72882228#map=19/49.11648/6.18358
Mes 2 centimes... 

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Re: [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2016-12-17

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Martijn van Exel

Hi Dan,

Not sure if Dave actually reads this list any more -- these messages are 
posted automatically as far as I know.


There's also garmin.openstreetmap.nl where you can define your own 
custom bounding box for generating Garmin routable map files. Perhaps 
that helps.


Martijn

On 12/21/2016 08:29 AM, DRTBYK wrote:

Dave,

Please include enough of the Yukon Territory so as to allow for routing
between Alaska and the Lower 48.  As it is now, the Alaska Highway is
cut off above Whitehorse.

Cheers,
Dan Townsley


On 2016Dec21, at 04:00, talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org
 wrote:

[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2016-12-17




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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2016-12-17

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden DRTBYK
Dave, 

Please include enough of the Yukon Territory so as to allow for routing between 
Alaska and the Lower 48.  As it is now, the Alaska Highway is cut off above 
Whitehorse. 

Cheers,
Dan Townsley

> On 2016Dec21, at 04:00, talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
> [Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2016-12-17

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Re: [Talk-it] OSM e CAI

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden girarsi_liste
Il 20/12/2016 09:12, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:
> pià che togliere il link sarebbe da modificare il preset e aggiungere
> un rimando alla pagine del CAI, mettendo un po' a posto il testo..
> 

Ho capito, il fine settimana, se mi ricordo, vedo di metterci mano.


-- 
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_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
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Re: [Talk-cz] RUIAN posun - konečné řešení?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Ha Noj
0   > Teoreticky bych se u každé budovy mohl zeptat WFS a korigované
souřadnice, ale je to zase další dotaz do sítě, další zdržení během
trasování.
*** tak se zeptejme WFS předem hromadně přes BBOX či podobně.

> Pro korekci tohoto posunu se dá použít korekční Grid (
http://freegis.fsv.cvut.cz/gwiki/S-JTSK_/_Grid ), který ovšem po
> změně algoritmu nedává správná data, takže přepočet není správný.
*** nic takového se neprokázalo. ;)

> No a celé je to o tom, jak získat opravený Grid, aby objekty natrasované
z RUIANu co nejvíce pasovaly na KM.
> Proběhly tady nějaké pokusy, byla na to diplomka, pan Souček z ČÚZK
slíbil, že se přes vánoce na ten algoritmus
> mrkne a dá vědět, který přesně se používá, ale zatím vše selhalo. Takže
se stále pro přepočet používá starý Grid, který
> však nedává přesné výsledky.
*** ještě bych možná dodal, že ČUZK používá 7prvkový klíč +
dotransformaci(JTSK-JTSK05), kdežto grid jde na to přímo.


ha
hanoj
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Mathias Jérôme
Bien sûr des contre exemples il y aura à la pelle..j'énonçais seulement des 
généralités et on aura aussi les 10-1 , 10-2 , 10-3 , 10-4 à la place de ce que 
voulez.Ce qui est sûr c'est que c'est de la numérotation dans tous les cas, ce 
qui plaide pour le mettre tout ce qui est numérotation avec la numérotation (ou 
dans le même "mot" ce qui reviens au même).


  De : Florian_G 
 À : Discussions sur OSM en français  
 Envoyé le : Mercredi 21 décembre 2016 14h20
 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis
   
Hello,
 
 Le 20/12/2016 à 20:44, Mathias Jérôme a écrit :
Les bis, ter etc... sont des indices de répétitions, mais les A,B,C etc... sont 
plutôt ce que j'appellerais des indices de déclinaisons (dans le cas du 36bis 
c'est que le 36 existe (ou existait) et est (était)  vraiment distinct, tandis 
que le 36A il est souvent situé au situé au 36, de même que le 36B se situera 
aussi au 36 , de fait les A,B,C,etc... sont souvent de la numérotation d'ordre 
"privative" : accès ou cages d'escaliers).
Petit contre-exemple :   
   - OSM : http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/253831784#map=19/49.13026/6.15980
   - Google : 
https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.130211,6.1595164,3a,51y,332.26h,91.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soFRU1NinEVLGt68Nufyx0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
Ce 13 A aurait pu être un 13 bis, mais c'est bien un 13 A, autonome, distinct 
et non dépendant du 13 (qui est bien une autre maison). Les parcelles 
cadastrales sont d'ailleurs différentes, mais ce n'est pas déterminant (au 
mieux un indice).En fait, c'est, selon moi, juste une norme de numérotation 
différente ; que ce soit numéro "n bis" ou numéro "n A", les bâtiments 
numérotés "n" et "n+1" étant déjà construits ou prévus, il fallait donc bien 
trouver une astuce au moment de la mise en place du numéro entre les deux. Pour 
l'anecdote, il existe même un 0 bis à Metz, avant le 2, mais pas de 0 ! → 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/72882228#map=19/49.11648/6.18358Mes 2 
centimes...  
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Re: [Talk-GB] Notes for places removed from FHRS?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F

Hi Andrew

I wouldn't use FHRS:ID as the be all & end all. It doesn't mean they've 
closed down. On the ground verification is required. Depending on a 
local authority's preferences, existing companies changing a name, or a 
manager can trigger a new ID. Schools becoming academies in my area were 
given new ones.


When a business closes down I fully delete the FHRS:ID. If a new one 
opens in the same premises I add the available data for it. This doesn't 
usually include FHRS, at first, as a premises has to be open for a while 
to gain a worthwhile rating.


Comment on SK53:
It's been agreed by many that OSM is not a historical store, but a 
record of what's currently there. Imagine how clogged the database would 
become if all historical data was retained or even added, as some wish 
to do. (I live in a Roman City, it would be a complete mess)


Cheers
DaveF

On 21/12/2016 13:05, Andrew Hain wrote:


Richmond has updated its FHRS records and two entries that previously 
appeared in the list are now reported as unresolved in the GregRS 
tool. Should I add notes that they are no longer in FHRS and should be 
checked in the ground or is adding notes from public quality assurance 
tools a bad idea?


--
Andrew


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Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Fwd: [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden James
Just to give an update, Ottawa has finally approved moving the building
outlines to the open data portal. The person responsible is on vacation and
will be back the 9th of January 2017 and expect it to be live by the end of
that week.

So with data source not being publicly available, are there any other road
blocks that are stopping this import from progressing?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Christoph Hormann 
wrote:

> On Tuesday 25 October 2016, Kevin Farrugia wrote:
> >
> > Planimetrics represent whatever the ground condition was when the
> > data was created and updated, which is almost always done with high
> > res orthoimagery. If someone demolishes a shed in their backyard, the
> > city would likely need to notice it visually. Every place does it
> > differently, but that's likely what happens.
>
> Actually i was referring to the use of the term "CAD drawings" which
> clearly indicates a planning component (with the 'D' standing for
> design) - but you probably have just used the term in a different way
> than how i understood it.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [Talk-cl] Geoprints

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Julio Costa Zambelli
Hola Juan Carlos,

Claramente es un plagio (múltiples geometrías, categorización de tramos,
etc.), aunque se ve que es un render personalizado a pesar de los colores,
pues algunos nombres están abreviados y otros borrados.

Claramente las personas mencionadas cobraron, pagándose con fondos del
CNCA, RC y FSP (de acuerdo con la imagen 5).

Sería ideal tener algunos Easter Eggs para probar el tema más allá de toda
duda razonable.

¿Puedes pedirles la edición digital al email que proveen en la imagen 5?
(Obviamente sin indicarles lo que queremos revisar)

Saludos,

Julio Costa Zambelli
Fundación OpenStreetMap Chile

julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl

http://www.openstreetmap.cl/
Cel: +56(9)89981083

2016-12-04 15:39 GMT-03:00 juan carlos sepulveda :

> Hola julio.
>
> Con respecto a tu pregunta, te menciono que me di cuenta con tan solo
> ver el mapa en el libro y de reconocer un par de ediciones que realice
> algún tiempo atrás en el editor de osm. ademas los dos mapas (atlas y
> openspreetmap.org son idénticos.
>
> Para aclarar el asunto y demostrar mi opinión de este hilo, adjunto
> imágenes tomadas para tomar sus propias conclusiones.
>
> DalaCost. adjunto imagen de los créditos del libro ..
>
> saludos a todos.
>
> El 4/12/16, Julio Costa Zambelli  escribió:
> > Hola Juan Carlos,
> >
> > ¿Como sabes que los datos que aparecen en el libro mencionado son de OSM?
> > (¿Easter Eggs?)
> >
> > Saludos,
> >
> > Julio Costa Zambelli
> > Fundación OpenStreetMap Chile
> >
> > julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.cl/
> > Cel: +56(9)89981083
> >
> > 2016-12-04 0:04 GMT-03:00 juan carlos sepulveda :
> >
> >>
> >> Saludos.
> >> Me presento oficialmente a la comunidad. Mi nombre es Juan sepulveda
> >> (juankzero), soy del sector de coipue viejo, carretera entre la ciudad
> de
> >> Freire y Villarrica, novena región y desde un par de años he estado
> >> contribuyendo con unos granos de arena a esta gran comunidad.
> >>
> >> Bueno el tema principal de este mensaje es que leyendo el texto citado
> de
> >> "julio costa" he recordado que hace algún tiempo llegó a mis manos un
> >> libro
> >> de información sobre la comuna de Freire, tipo Atlas socio_cultural, en
> >> donde mágicamente aparecen planos de la ciudad, basados en OSM. Lo
> >> gracioso
> >> de todo y lo que más me llama la atención es que en dicho plano aparecen
> >> las contribuciones que he realizado en el editor. Y de que en ningún
> >> lugar
> >> del "Atlas" se menciona a Openstreepmap.
> >> Lo único que menciona es (cito textualmente)::
> >> Mapeos colectivos: camila Barraza, Nicolás salazar y Manuel saldia.
> >> Desconozco si dichos personajes han contribuido en algo, pero me daré la
> >> tarea de ver cambios en los mapas a ver si encuentro algo.
> >> Cabe destacar que dicho libro se repartió de forma no comercial a
> algunos
> >> ciudadanos de la comuna pero ello no garantiza que los realizadores y
> los
> >> mapeadores, ya nombrados, no hayan cobrado.
> >>
> >> Saludos,
> >>
> >> El dic. 4, 2016 5:24 AM, "Julio Costa Zambelli" <
> >> julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl> escribió:
> >>
> >>> Estimados,
> >>>
> >>> Hoy me apareció en Internet cierta publicidad sobre mapas impresos (
> >>> http://www.geoprints.co/about.html), en que uno selecciona un lugar en
> >>> un "editor" que ellos tienen en su sitio web y te lo envían a casa en
> >>> papel.Como era de esperar hice click para ver de que se trataba y de
> >>> donde
> >>> sacaban los datos.
> >>>
> >>> Confirmé que estos son de OpenStreetMap (Easter eggs* mediantes), y
> como
> >>> ha pasado también en algunas ocasiones, parece que no dan atribución de
> >>> la
> >>> forma que demanda la licencia. De hecho, la única mención a
> >>> OpenStreetMap
> >>> es un "Agradecimientos especiales a los contribuidores de Open Street
> >>> Maps  y MapBox
> >>> ."(sic) en el pie de página del
> >>> sitio Web, pero aparentemente nada en el papel.
> >>>
> >>> Seria interesante conversar con los dueños ¿Alguien aquí los conoce?
> >>> ¿Alguno de ellos está suscrito a esta lista? Según veo en Internet el
> >>> fundador es Eduardo Guerra Pérez.
> >>>
> >>> Como siempre, la aproximación inicial es amistosa.
> >>>
> >>> * https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Copyright_Easter_Eggs
> >>>
> >>> Saludos,
> >>>
> >>> Julio Costa Zambelli
> >>> Fundación OpenStreetMap Chile
> >>>
> >>> julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl
> >>>
> >>> http://www.openstreetmap.cl/
> >>> Cel: +56(9)89981083 <+56%209%208998%201083>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Talk-cl mailing list
> >>> Talk-cl@openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cl
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
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> >> Talk-cl@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cl
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Re: [Talk-de] Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Tobias

+1

  Originalnachricht  
Von: dktue
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2016 14:29
An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
Antwort an: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch
Betreff: Re: [Talk-de]  Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016


+1

Am 21.12.2016 um 10:28 schrieb Wochennotizteam:

Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 335 mit vielen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der  
OpenStreetMap Welt ist da:


http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2016/12/wochennotiz-nr-335/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen!
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Re: [Talk-GB] Notes for places removed from FHRS?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Andrew Hain

I am more interested in the possibility that the business has closed.
--
Andrew

From: SK53 
Sent: 21 December 2016 13:17:48
To: Andrew Hain
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Notes for places removed from FHRS?

Technically these are still FHRS identifiers as old identifiers are not reused. 
Obviously in the case where a new business in the same premises gets an FHRS 
identifier then that should take precedence.

We have quite a few in Nottingham, older ones are shunted into old_fhrs:id 
(pretty much our local convention for historic tags).

Non-current FHRS identifiers are still extremely useful; I was able to check 
something for robbieonsea the other day by referring to a 2013 FHRS file.

In the ideal world we'd have a full list of FHRS Ids over time.

Jerry

On 21 December 2016 at 13:05, Andrew Hain 
> wrote:

Richmond has updated its FHRS records and two entries that previously appeared 
in the list are now reported as unresolved in the GregRS tool. Should I add 
notes that they are no longer in FHRS and should be checked in the ground or is 
adding notes from public quality assurance tools a bad idea?

--
Andrew

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Re: [Talk-de] Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden dktue

+1

Am 21.12.2016 um 10:28 schrieb Wochennotizteam:

Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 335 mit vielen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der OpenStreetMap 
Welt ist da:

http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2016/12/wochennotiz-nr-335/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen!
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Données du STIF sur Osmose

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Frédéric Rodrigo

Le 20/12/2016 à 02:35, Jérôme Amagat a écrit :
peut être baisser le paramètre conflationDistance, là pour les bus 
elle est à 100 (mètres?) la baisser à 10 voir à 5 mètres comme ça 
moins de proposition d'intégration mais on est (pratiquement) sur que 
c'est le même arrêt dans osm et dans la source. Pour les arrêts ou il 
y a plus de 5 mètre mais que c'est bien le bon et bien il faudra 
l'envoyer dans josm et, en vérifiant avec les photos aériennes, faire 
la fusion des points.
par contre est ce que osmose va continuer à proposer un nouvel arrêt 
même si il y en a déjà un avec le bon ref mais qu'il est plus loin que 
la conflationDistance?



S'il y a la ref c'est bon, pas de conflation en distance.

Florian ton avis sur la distance de conflation ? Ou la suppression des 
arrêts de bus stif d'osmose



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osmose et adresses bis

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Florian_G
 
Hello,

Le 20/12/2016 à 20:44, Mathias Jérôme a écrit : 

> Les bis, ter etc... sont des indices de répétitions, mais les A,B,C etc... 
> sont plutôt ce que j'appellerais des indices de déclinaisons (dans le cas du 
> 36bis c'est que le 36 existe (ou existait) et est (était) vraiment distinct, 
> tandis que le 36A il est souvent situé au situé au 36, de même que le 36B se 
> situera aussi au 36 , de fait les A,B,C,etc... sont souvent de la 
> numérotation d'ordre "privative" : accès ou cages d'escaliers).

Petit contre-exemple : 

* OSM :
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/253831784#map=19/49.13026/6.15980 [1]
* Google :
https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.130211,6.1595164,3a,51y,332.26h,91.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soFRU1NinEVLGt68Nufyx0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
[2]

Ce 13 A aurait pu être un 13 bis, mais c'est bien un 13 A, autonome,
distinct et non dépendant du 13 (qui est bien une autre maison). Les
parcelles cadastrales sont d'ailleurs différentes, mais ce n'est pas
déterminant (au mieux un indice). 

En fait, c'est, selon moi, juste une norme de numérotation différente ;
que ce soit numéro "n bis" ou numéro "n A", les bâtiments numérotés "n"
et "n+1" étant déjà construits ou prévus, il fallait donc bien trouver
une astuce au moment de la mise en place du numéro entre les deux. Pour
l'anecdote, il existe même un 0 bis à Metz, avant le 2, mais pas de 0 !
→ http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/72882228#map=19/49.11648/6.18358 [3] 

Mes 2 centimes...  
 

Links:
--
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/253831784#map=19/49.13026/6.15980
[2]
https://www.google.fr/maps/@49.130211,6.1595164,3a,51y,332.26h,91.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soFRU1NinEVLGt68Nufyx0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/72882228#map=19/49.11648/6.18358
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Re: [Talk-GB] Notes for places removed from FHRS?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden SK53
Technically these are still FHRS identifiers as old identifiers are not
reused. Obviously in the case where a new business in the same premises
gets an FHRS identifier then that should take precedence.

We have quite a few in Nottingham, older ones are shunted into old_fhrs:id
(pretty much our local convention for historic tags).

Non-current FHRS identifiers are still extremely useful; I was able to
check something for robbieonsea the other day by referring to a 2013 FHRS
file.

In the ideal world we'd have a full list of FHRS Ids over time.

Jerry

On 21 December 2016 at 13:05, Andrew Hain 
wrote:

>
> Richmond has updated its FHRS records and two entries that previously
> appeared in the list are now reported as unresolved in the GregRS tool.
> Should I add notes that they are no longer in FHRS and should be checked in
> the ground or is adding notes from public quality assurance tools a bad
> idea?
>
> --
> Andrew
>
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>
>
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[Talk-GB] Notes for places removed from FHRS?

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Andrew Hain

Richmond has updated its FHRS records and two entries that previously appeared 
in the list are now reported as unresolved in the GregRS tool. Should I add 
notes that they are no longer in FHRS and should be checked in the ground or is 
adding notes from public quality assurance tools a bad idea?

--
Andrew
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Colin Smale
A PROW is "theoretical" in the sense that it may not follow the exact
same course on the ground. But the fact that a hedge or whatever is
blocking a PROW does not create a legal diversion of the PROW - you are
not automatically entitled to leave the PROW in order to continue your
walk. So the line of the PROW and the line of the "beaten track" may be
different. The path you walk in practice is obviously a path, but
whether a PROW exists over that path is something that only the council
(or the courts) can decide. There is a legal process for changing the
route of a PROW.. 

Hence: there is a need for both - surveys for the line of the path, and
information from the powers-that-be for the ROW status.

On 2016-12-21 13:25, Dave F wrote:

> Yeah, sorry about that ;-)
> 
> All: Are we greed that if it's *definitely* been issued under OGL, a local 
> authority's data can be used within OSM?
> 
> And by 'used' I don't necessarily mean copied directly. I'm overlaying my 
> LA's PROW data to see what's missing so I can walk & survey it detail.
> 
> Please tell me we're agreed that an on the ground survey is best :-) 
> 
> DaveF
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:28, Paul Berry wrote: 
> Thanks everyone for the rapid influx of comments. I've clearly mined a deep 
> vein here. 
> 
> In my locale, the council's records are overlays onto OS mapping, so this is 
> what I'm taking away from the conversation: 
> You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an idea of 
> what is missing and can then be surveyed. 
> 
> Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
> should map what is on the ground 
> 
> Regards, 
> _Paul_ 
> 
> On 21 December 2016 at 10:59, Philip Barnes  wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-12-21 at 10:39 +, Paul Berry wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an up-to-
>> date copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then
>> be incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of
>> public but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a
>> rural right of way blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area
>> and have had the need to get very familiar with my local footpaths...
>> 
> In most cases it cannot be simply incorporated into OSM. The definitive
> maps were drawn onto OS maps, and all I have seen are overlayed onto OS
> maps with the words Crown Copyright.
> 
> You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an idea
> of what is missing and can then be surveyed.
> 
> Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
> should map what is on the ground. The maps were originally drawn by
> parish councils, and not always accurately. For example here in
> Shropshire a path is shown passing through a house, built on a right of
> way? No, the house was built in the 1500s, and the pen must have
> slipped.
> 
> The other advantage of surveying is that we can map the barriers, this
> is when OSM can beat OS as a walking map. When you survey the paths,
> please map the stiles, kissing_gates, gates etc. That is important
> information for many walkers.
> 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden David Woolley

On 21/12/16 12:25, Dave F wrote:

All: Are we greed that if it's *definitely* been issued under OGL, a
local authority's data can be used within OSM?


See 



An OGL may require specific attribution, in which case that attribution 
has to be added to the OSM licensing page before it is used.


There is a horrible bit of weasel wording that says no rights are 
granted for third party rights which the licensor does not have a right 
to grant.  That means that the council can use an OGL but the content 
could still be encumbered by OS copyrights.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F

Yeah, sorry about that ;-)

All: Are we greed that if it's *definitely* been issued under OGL, a 
local authority's data can be used within OSM?


And by 'used' I don't necessarily mean copied directly. I'm overlaying 
my LA's PROW data to see what's missing so I can walk & survey it detail.


Please tell me we're agreed that an on the ground survey is best :-)

DaveF


On 21/12/2016 11:28, Paul Berry wrote:
Thanks everyone for the rapid influx of comments. I've clearly mined a 
deep vein here.


In my locale, the council's records are overlays onto OS mapping, so 
this is what I'm taking away from the conversation:


You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an
idea

of what is missing and can then be surveyed.


Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
should map what is on the ground


Regards,
/Paul/


On 21 December 2016 at 10:59, Philip Barnes > wrote:


On Wed, 2016-12-21 at 10:39 +, Paul Berry wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an
up-to-
> date copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then
> be incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of
> public but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a
> rural right of way blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area
> and have had the need to get very familiar with my local
footpaths...
>
In most cases it cannot be simply incorporated into OSM. The
definitive
maps were drawn onto OS maps, and all I have seen are overlayed
onto OS
maps with the words Crown Copyright.

You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an
idea
of what is missing and can then be surveyed.

Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
should map what is on the ground. The maps were originally drawn by
parish councils, and not always accurately. For example here in
Shropshire a path is shown passing through a house, built on a
right of
way? No, the house was built in the 1500s, and the pen must have
slipped.

The other advantage of surveying is that we can map the barriers, this
is when OSM can beat OS as a walking map. When you survey the paths,
please map the stiles, kissing_gates, gates etc. That is important
information for many walkers.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden SK53
A few quick notes, some of this has been said before:


   - The license issue is complex, largely because there is no adequate
   audit trail of metadata associated with the data. As Phil says many
   definitive maps were compiled by parish councillors, but this would have
   been in the 1940s and 1950s with maps which are now out-of-copyright. This
   data would have been digitised (any-time from 1980s), but perhaps against
   an OS map which is in copyright with or without revisions. Even a release
   of data under OGL really needs clearance that OSGB see that none of their
   data have been used.
   - Definitive statements are more useful for us as they should describe
   the path alignment in words. Most councils have not digitised their
   definitive statements, let along released them under OGL. (Presumably this
   is largely a workload issue: I have no idea if they would be amenable to
   allowing digitisation to be crowd sourced).
   - A few councils definitely have released their PRoW data under OGL, one
   of them is Nottingham
   , which I
   believe sought the relevant dispensation from the OS. As an urban area
   Nottingham was exempt from the initial PRoW collection of data and has only
   been doing this under the CROW Act of 2000. This data is therefore much
   more accurately digitised: the problem is that establishing the status of
   some paths has been an arduous process.
   - Other urban areas have significant problems in finding the actual
   course of rights of way because areas have been built over. I think it was
   Tony Wroblewski who told me once about these issues for the Littleover area
   in Derby.
   - The OS does not claim copyright in the PRoW data themselves. It may be
   working with them on a clearer statement may help all concerned. This may
   be something that OSM-UK's existence may make easier.
   - The OS omits some PRoW data in hilly areas where the line of the
   definitive map is clearly incorrect & following the line could put walkers
   into danger.
   - Definitive lines in many areas have fallen into disuse and been
   replaced by more attractive alternatives (typically a path round a field
   edge rather than across the ploughed field. A good example surveyed on
   several occasions for OSM is the bridleway
   across Laxton Common to the
   south of Wellow Wood. This is merely mapped with the designation & access
   tags as, although it is marked there, is no trace on the ground.
   - Minor deviations of a path from the definitive line are very common.
   - Mapping infrastructure, barriers etc is extremely useful & often makes
   route finding easier than with OS 1:25k maps.
   - Mapping footpaths is fun, it really just provides a different set of
   goals for constructing a country walk. So if you enjoy a country walk it
   just requires a little bit more planning.
   - Several of us create maps comparing OSM & data from rowmaps (me,
   Robert Whittaker, Nick Whitlegg at least). Some of these are available
   on-line. The ones I do are one-offs so dont get updated, but I currently
   have fairly recent ones for South Central England (October) and North
   Midlands (March).

Cheers,


Jerry

On 21 December 2016 at 10:39, Paul Berry  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an up-to-date
> copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then be
> incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of public but
> copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a rural right of way
> blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area and have had the need to
> get very familiar with my local footpaths...
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F
Thanks to all who linked to the specific ERoY page. I had already read 
it, which is why I asked Chris H which license he believed was used. In 
this case it doesn't appear clear cut, which is disappointing.


DaveF

On 21/12/2016 11:50, Andy Townsend wrote:

On 21/12/2016 11:32, Dave F wrote:
Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the 
data that ROWmaps is using?


The actual page at the rowmaps site is:

http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/


It seems to say (and I'm paraphrasing) "ERYC say it's Crown Copyright, 
but the OS say 'All data exempted by Ordnance Survey is now covered by 
the Open Government Licence (OGL)' [but they don't say what data is 
exempted]" and then says "So it's possible for you to use this data 
provided you say that it is public sector information released by the 
council of East Riding of Yorkshire under the Open Government Licence".


I'm not convinced it's possible to infer the one from the other 
without much more detail than is on that page.   That doesn't mean 
that somewhere those details don't exist - it just means that I 
wouldn't add data from rowmaps to OSM without more licence details.


However, to answer the original question:

1) Yes, some local authorities have made explicit releases of 
genuinely open data.


2) If if they haven't, and rights-of-way maps are encumbered by other 
licences, the council's "definitive statement" may well be admissable 
(something like "FP123 starts at the junction of X road and Y road and 
runs across the field to the gate at the north of Z house").


Best Regards,

Andy





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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Owen Boswarva
Let me know when the Council takes action against rowmaps. Until then it's
just two conflicting accounts, neither of which is independently verifiable.

Barry can speak for himself of course, but I can't see that he owes you an
explanation.

Owen
@owenboswarva

On 21 December 2016 at 11:53, Chris Hill  wrote:

Owen, I’ve seen that before, but it is at odds with my experience.
>
> I have asked ERoY council to release their Rights of Way data under OGL
> repeatedly. I have asked by email, through their customer services web
> page, by twitter, by letter, by telephone, by asking my local councillors
> to help and every time they refuse, saying there is no need as they publish
> the data on a (copyright) map. There are various other Open Data requests
> against ERoY council, all have been refused.
>
> When I spoke on the telephone I used rowmaps as an example of how they had
> already released the data under OGL. I was told there was no record of this
> data being released under any open licence.
>
> This is why I tried to contact Barry to get an explanation and to
> strengthen my case. He has not replied to me.
>
> Chris Hill
> (User chillly)
>
>
>
> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:42, Owen Boswarva  wrote:
>
> The circumstances under which the East Riding of Yorkshire data was
> provided to rowmaps are set out here:
>
> http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/
>
> I've no reason to mistrust Barry's account. But there is obviously a
> provenance issue for other users if the Council as copyright holder has not
> confirmed the licensing publicly.
>
> This is a case by case problem, as the OGL status of some of the other
> rights of way datasets on rowmaps can be confirmed via council sites.
>
> I can't see that http://www.rowmaps.com/ has rights of way data for Hull.
>
> Owen
> @owenboswarva
>
> On 21 December 2016 at 11:32, Dave F  wrote:
>
>> Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the
>> data that ROWmaps is using?
>>
>> DaveF.
>>
>> On 21/12/2016 11:17, Chris Hill wrote:
>>
>> Row maps is definitely not based on OGL data. It includes E Yorks and
>> Hull data that both councils have explicitly refused to release as OGL.
>>
>> I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney silence.
>> If anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would revert that
>> edit.
>>
>>
>> Chris Hill
>> (User chillly)
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
>>
>> A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many
>> definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they will
>> almost certainly be online.
>>
>> It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map will
>> know the copyright status.
>>
>>
>> Could you expand on your claims please.
>>
>> Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ isn't OGL & the
>> distributor wouldn't know?
>>
>> DaveF
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Chris Hill
Owen, I’ve seen that before, but it is at odds with my experience.

I have asked ERoY council to release their Rights of Way data under OGL 
repeatedly. I have asked by email, through their customer services web page, by 
twitter, by letter, by telephone, by asking my local councillors to help and 
every time they refuse, saying there is no need as they publish the data on a 
(copyright) map. There are various other Open Data requests against ERoY 
council, all have been refused. 

When I spoke on the telephone I used rowmaps as an example of how they had 
already released the data under OGL. I was told there was no record of this 
data being released under any open licence. 

This is why I tried to contact Barry to get an explanation and to strengthen my 
case. He has not replied to me.

Chris Hill
(User chillly)



> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:42, Owen Boswarva  wrote:
> 
> The circumstances under which the East Riding of Yorkshire data was provided 
> to rowmaps are set out here:
> 
> http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/ 
> 
> I've no reason to mistrust Barry's account. But there is obviously a 
> provenance issue for other users if the Council as copyright holder has not 
> confirmed the licensing publicly.
> 
> This is a case by case problem, as the OGL status of some of the other rights 
> of way datasets on rowmaps can be confirmed via council sites.
> 
> I can't see that http://www.rowmaps.com/  has rights 
> of way data for Hull.
> 
> Owen
> @owenboswarva
> 
> On 21 December 2016 at 11:32, Dave F  > wrote:
> Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the data 
> that ROWmaps is using?
> 
> DaveF.
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:17, Chris Hill wrote:
>> Row maps is definitely not based on OGL data. It includes E Yorks and Hull 
>> data that both councils have explicitly refused to release as OGL.
>> 
>> I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney silence. If 
>> anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would revert that edit. 
>> 
>> 
>> Chris Hill
>> (User chillly)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
 A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many 
 definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they will 
 almost certainly be online.
 
 It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map will 
 know the copyright status.
>>> 
>>> Could you expand on your claims please.
>>> 
>>> Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ 
>>>  isn't OGL & the distributor wouldn't know?
>>> 
>>> DaveF
>>> 
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> 
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>   
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Andy Townsend

On 21/12/2016 11:32, Dave F wrote:
Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the 
data that ROWmaps is using?


The actual page at the rowmaps site is:

http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/


It seems to say (and I'm paraphrasing) "ERYC say it's Crown Copyright, 
but the OS say 'All data exempted by Ordnance Survey is now covered by 
the Open Government Licence (OGL)' [but they don't say what data is 
exempted]" and then says "So it's possible for you to use this data 
provided you say that it is public sector information released by the 
council of East Riding of Yorkshire under the Open Government Licence".


I'm not convinced it's possible to infer the one from the other without 
much more detail than is on that page.   That doesn't mean that 
somewhere those details don't exist - it just means that I wouldn't add 
data from rowmaps to OSM without more licence details.


However, to answer the original question:

1) Yes, some local authorities have made explicit releases of genuinely 
open data.


2) If if they haven't, and rights-of-way maps are encumbered by other 
licences, the council's "definitive statement" may well be admissable 
(something like "FP123 starts at the junction of X road and Y road and 
runs across the field to the gate at the north of Z house").


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Données du STIF sur Osmose

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Philippe Verdy
En revanche les données fournies par l'Open Data de la STAR à Rennes sont
excellentes (en terme de géolocalisation et complétude)... sauf qu'Osmose
insiste pour changer les tags de numéros de référence et ne produit
actuellement presque uniquement 100% de faux positifs sur tous les arrêts
(pour ajouter des tags redondants ou faux à des arrêts pourtant déjà
intégrés et qu'il trouve bien dans la base).

La géolocalisation peut cependant être un peu améliorée pour placer les
plateformes d'arrêt sur le bon côté de la route, mais dans la plupart des
cas j'ai vu que la faute ne vient pas de l'OpenData mais d'une précision
insuffisante du tracé des rues et routes dans OSM (ce qui a pour effet de
mettre les deux arrêts normalement de chaque côté du'une rue tous les deux
du même côté). Les tracés vectoriels du cadastre de Rennes et de son
opendata sont excellents, la solution est donc de recaler les rues; les
ajustements des platformes d'arrêts sont minimes: juste le mettre sur le
trottoir plutôt que sur le côté de la chaussée (dans certains cas on peut
voir norn seulement la plaforme (avec les zébrures sur la chaussée) mais
aussi les abris bus (l'orthophoto fournie par Bing reprend les clichés
haute précision réalisés par Rennes Métropole et l'IGN, leur alignement est
excellent, on peut donc largement augmenter la précision des anciens tracés
OSM initialement dessinés sur des clichés de moins bonne précision et faits
souvent un peu à la va-vite au moment où on traçait les limites communales
et quelques rues).

J'en profite en ce moment pour ajouter les sous-quartiers (là encore sur
les données OpenData de Rennes Métropole) : ils sont au niveau 11; jusqu'à
présent on n'avait que les 12 quartiers administratifs au niveau 10 et les
6 unités administratives au niveau 9.

Et je nettoie des tracés parasites quand j'en trouve. Autant que possible
ces tracés de quartiers aux niveaux 9,10,11 sont fusionnés avec ceux des
cantons (qui ont été tracés au béut par estimation sur des noms de rues
mais sans le calage précis des rues qui est maintenant dans l'OpenData de
Rennes Métropole). J'atteint la précision quasi-centimétrique, les rues
sont profilées, il n'y a plus de rues qui coupent les bordures de chaussées
ou les trottoirs dans ce que je touche, ce qui permet de poser correctement
les éléments voisins sur le trottoir comme les poubelles, abris bus, et
positions des feux ou encore des arbres et les emplacements de
stationnement latéral.

Pour certains grands carrefours ou ronds-points je les reprofile de façon
moins approximative, j'ajoute les pelouses et zones plantées et certains
chemins piétons. Cependant je ne touche pas aux notations d'accessibilité
des bordures de trottoirs surbaissés pour les usagers en fauteuil. Et il
manque certainement des tas de ralentisseurs près des passages pétons (eux
je les ajoute aussi quand ils manquent quand ils sont bien visibles et que
je recale eux aussi). Les rues en courbes ont réellement des formes en
courbe avec des rayons de courbure corrects et non un seul angle (ça c'est
utile pour la navigation des véhicules larges, notamment bus et camions).

La moitié des 45 sous-quartiers sont faits: au centre, sud-gare, nord,
ouest et sud-ouest. Je continue les autres...


Le 21 décembre 2016 à 09:58, Florian LAINEZ  a écrit :

> Merci Fred, Noémie pour ces outils.
> Je rejoins les critiques : c'est pour l'instant un peu galère voir
> trompeur.
> Je comprends néanmoins qu'on ne puisse faire mieux pour l'instant ...
>
> En ce moment j'aborde le problème de qualité avec divers acteurs du
> transport et j'ai fait un petit comparatif rapide sur deux quartiers
> exemple : https://www.slideshare.net/secret/yhSSpQ6mzE6SH6
> Des suggestions d'amélioration ?
>
> Y aurait-il moyen de générer des stats plus poussées ? Je cherche par
> exemple l'écart moyen de la distance entre les données STIF et OSM, les
> valeurs max/min, voir l'écart-type.
> Fred peut-être est-ce déjà intégré à OSMOSE ? Je n'ai pas trouvé.
> J'aimerai également détailler ça par gestionnaire de réseau, étant donné
> qu'il y en a 75 dans les données du STIF.
>
> Bonne journée
>
>
> Le 20 décembre 2016 à 21:32, Noémie Lehuby 
> a écrit :
>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Bonne idée Christian !
>> j'ai créé une page de débug qui précise, dans OSM et dans l'opendata,
>> pour chaque arrêt avec une ref STIF, les lignes desservies :
>> https://ref-lignes-stif.5apps.com/stop.html?osm_stop_id=472985886
>>
>> il faut lui passer en paramètre l'id OSM du noeud correspondant à l'arrêt.
>>
>> Ça gère aussi les cas où un arrêt OSM correspond à plusieurs arrêts dans
>> l'opendata (dont certains pas forcément du bon côté de la route ...) :
>> https://ref-lignes-stif.5apps.com/stop.html?osm_stop_id=928458342
>>
>> N'hésitez pas à l'utiliser pour vérifier vos ajouts de références STIF ;)
>>
>> Noémie
>>
>> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 18:42:52 +0100
>>> From: Christian Quest 
>>> To: 

Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden David Woolley

On 21/12/16 11:32, Dave F wrote:

Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the
data that ROWmaps is using?


Assuming it was taken from: 
 
for which the copyright details are on 



I would say that the overlay is copyright the council with no licence 
grant other than the implied ones to allow viewing via a web browsers.


There are two alternative OS licences, and it is not clear which one 
relates to the background, but in the absence of a specific ODL 
permission on the background, I would say the restrictive licence 
applies.  OSM requires permission to copy, permission for derivative 
works, and permission for commercial use, none of which are given.


There is no discussion that the overlay  may itself be a derivative of 
OS data, but the lack of a licence from the council means that should be 
a non-issue for end users, who simply cannot copy it.  If it is based on 
details like hedgerows, it will be derived from data under hte more 
restrictive licence.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Colin Smale
http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/ contains the following text: 

"The council of East Riding of Yorkshire have provided me with an ESRI
shape file [1] that contains the details of their public rights of way.
The ESRI shape file seems to have been created on 27th February 2014.
The Council also provides information about public rights of way on its
online map [2]. It may be that their map uses more up-to-date
information. 

"An authority's Definitive Map is the authoritative source of their
rights of way. The details of the public rights of way network contained
in an authority's data are for information only, and are an
interpretation of the Definitive Map, not the Definitive Map itself, and
should not be relied on for determining the position or alignment of any
public right of way. For legal purposes, an authority's data does not
replace their Definitive Map. And changes may have been made to the
Definitive Map that are not included in their data. The authority's data
contains Ordnance Survey data (c) Crown copyright and database right
2013. Attempting to view this data with more detail than 1:1 may
produce an inaccurate rendering of the route of a public right of way. 

"The ESRI shape file was made available by the council of East Riding of
Yorkshire under terms equivalent to the Ordnance Survey OpenData
Licence. When I e-mailed the Ordnance Survey about the councils that
had, during the last few years, successfully obtained an exemption from
the Public Sector Mapping Agreement and released their data under terms
equivalent to the Ordnance Survey OpenData Licence, they replied _All
data exempted by Ordnance Survey is now covered by the Open Government
Licence (OGL), which superseded its own OS OpenData licence in April
2015._So it's possible for you to use this data provided you say that it
is public sector information released by the council of East Riding of
Yorkshire under the Open Government Licence [3]."

On 2016-12-21 12:32, Dave F wrote:

> Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the data 
> that ROWmaps is using?
> 
> DaveF.
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:17, Chris Hill wrote: Row maps is definitely not based on 
> OGL data. It includes E Yorks and Hull data that both councils have 
> explicitly refused to release as OGL. 
> 
> I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney silence. If 
> anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would revert that edit. 
> 
> Chris Hill 
> (User chillly) 
> 
> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F  wrote: 
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
> A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many 
> definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they will 
> almost certainly be online.
> 
> It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map will 
> know the copyright status. 
> Could you expand on your claims please.
> 
> Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ isn't OGL & the 
> distributor wouldn't know?
> 
> DaveF
> 
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Links:
--
[1] http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/working%20prow.zip
[2] http://walkingtheriding.eastriding.gov.uk/
[3]
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Chris Hill
When I asked the council they said they had no record of releasing the data 
under any licence. The data is published on a copyright map on the ERoY web 
site and the council always pointed me to that. The data is available to be 
extracted from that site, but obviously I can’t use that as it is copyright. 
Barry has not told me where he got the data from that he uses. I have asked.

Chris Hill
(User chillly)



> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:32, Dave F  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the data 
> that ROWmaps is using?
> 
> DaveF.
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:17, Chris Hill wrote:
>> Row maps is definitely not based on OGL data. It includes E Yorks and Hull 
>> data that both councils have explicitly refused to release as OGL.
>> 
>> I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney silence. If 
>> anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would revert that edit. 
>> 
>> 
>> Chris Hill
>> (User chillly)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
 A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many 
 definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they will 
 almost certainly be online.
 
 It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map will 
 know the copyright status.
>>> 
>>> Could you expand on your claims please.
>>> 
>>> Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ 
>>>  isn't OGL & the distributor wouldn't know?
>>> 
>>> DaveF
>>> 
>>> ---
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Owen Boswarva
The circumstances under which the East Riding of Yorkshire data was
provided to rowmaps are set out here:

http://www.rowmaps.com/datasets/EY/

I've no reason to mistrust Barry's account. But there is obviously a
provenance issue for other users if the Council as copyright holder has not
confirmed the licensing publicly.

This is a case by case problem, as the OGL status of some of the other
rights of way datasets on rowmaps can be confirmed via council sites.

I can't see that http://www.rowmaps.com/ has rights of way data for Hull.

Owen
@owenboswarva

On 21 December 2016 at 11:32, Dave F  wrote:

> Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the data
> that ROWmaps is using?
>
> DaveF.
>
> On 21/12/2016 11:17, Chris Hill wrote:
>
> Row maps is definitely not based on OGL data. It includes E Yorks and Hull
> data that both councils have explicitly refused to release as OGL.
>
> I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney silence. If
> anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would revert that edit.
>
>
> Chris Hill
> (User chillly)
>
>
>
> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F  wrote:
>
>
> On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
>
> A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many
> definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they will
> almost certainly be online.
>
> It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map will
> know the copyright status.
>
>
> Could you expand on your claims please.
>
> Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ isn't OGL & the
> distributor wouldn't know?
>
> DaveF
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F
Interesting. Under what license to you believe East Riding issued the 
data that ROWmaps is using?


DaveF.

On 21/12/2016 11:17, Chris Hill wrote:
Row maps is definitely not based on OGL data. It includes E Yorks and 
Hull data that both councils have explicitly refused to release as OGL.


I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney 
silence. If anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would 
revert that edit.



Chris Hill
(User chillly)



On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F > wrote:



On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that 
many definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they 
are, they will almost certainly be online.


It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map 
will know the copyright status.


Could you expand on your claims please.

Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ isn't OGL & 
the distributor wouldn't know?


DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden David Woolley

On 21/12/16 11:10, Dave F wrote:


It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map
will know the copyright status.


Could you expand on your claims please.


Whilst it appears that more than I thought publish online, even if the 
jury is out on licensing, those that don't require you to physically 
visit their offices.  I am referring to the clerks that would provide 
you with the paper copies of, or other means to view, the maps.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Paul Berry
Thanks everyone for the rapid influx of comments. I've clearly mined a deep
vein here.

In my locale, the council's records are overlays onto OS mapping, so this
is what I'm taking away from the conversation:

You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an idea
>
of what is missing and can then be surveyed.



>
> Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
> should map what is on the ground


Regards,
*Paul*


On 21 December 2016 at 10:59, Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On Wed, 2016-12-21 at 10:39 +, Paul Berry wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an up-to-
> > date copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then
> > be incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of
> > public but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a
> > rural right of way blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area
> > and have had the need to get very familiar with my local footpaths...
> >
> In most cases it cannot be simply incorporated into OSM. The definitive
> maps were drawn onto OS maps, and all I have seen are overlayed onto OS
> maps with the words Crown Copyright.
>
> You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an idea
> of what is missing and can then be surveyed.
>
> Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
> should map what is on the ground. The maps were originally drawn by
> parish councils, and not always accurately. For example here in
> Shropshire a path is shown passing through a house, built on a right of
> way? No, the house was built in the 1500s, and the pen must have
> slipped.
>
> The other advantage of surveying is that we can map the barriers, this
> is when OSM can beat OS as a walking map. When you survey the paths,
> please map the stiles, kissing_gates, gates etc. That is important
> information for many walkers.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Philip Barnes
On Wed, 2016-12-21 at 11:07 +, Chris Hill wrote:
> Have any Local Authorities released their definitive maps or
> statements under OGL? I want to know so I can use examples as a lever
> to persuade East Riding of Yorkshire and Hull City councils to
> release *anything* as open data. 
> 
The big problem there is unless they have done an independent survey,
then any digitisation will still retain the Crown Copyright of the
original definitive map. IMHO that include rowmaps too.

For example the parish councilors drawing in the rights of way, said
that path runs parallel to that hedge. The hedge is where it is because
OS surveyed it.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Chris Hill
I believe that link to be unsupported by contradicting evidence.

Chris Hill
(User chillly)



> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:15, Dave F  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> I'm a bit confused. Both Chris & David W. appear to have missed the link to 
> http://www.rowmaps.com/ . Can others see it?
> 
> DaveF.
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:07, Chris Hill wrote:
>> Have any Local Authorities released their definitive maps or statements 
>> under OGL? I want to know so I can use examples as a lever to persuade East 
>> Riding of Yorkshire and Hull City councils to release *anything* as open 
>> data. 
>> 
>> Chris Hill
>> (User chillly)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Dec 2016, at 10:54, Dave F >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Paul
>>> Short answer: Yes, it can be incorporated as long as it's been issued under 
>>> the Open Government Licence.
>>> http://www.rowmaps.com/ 
>>> 
>>> However, this data is not always the most accurate & the consensus is that 
>>> it's much better if "witnessed" by walking it. For example, the direction 
>>> of a few paths on the OS map in my area are set by hedgerows which have 
>>> long since been uprooted.
>>> 
>>> DaveF 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21/12/2016 10:39, Paul Berry wrote:
 Hi everyone,
 
 As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an up-to-date 
 copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then be 
 incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of public 
 but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a rural right of 
 way blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area and have had the 
 need to get very familiar with my local footpaths...
 
 Regards,
 Paul
 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>  
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Chris Hill
Row maps is definitely not based on OGL data. It includes E Yorks and Hull data 
that both councils have explicitly refused to release as OGL.

I have asked Barry for his sources and there has been a stoney silence. If 
anyone has used rowmaps as a source for OSM edits I would revert that edit. 


Chris Hill
(User chillly)



> On 21 Dec 2016, at 11:10, Dave F  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
>> A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many 
>> definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they will 
>> almost certainly be online.
>> 
>> It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map will 
>> know the copyright status.
> 
> Could you expand on your claims please.
> 
> Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ isn't OGL & the 
> distributor wouldn't know?
> 
> DaveF
> 
> ---
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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F

Hi
I'm a bit confused. Both Chris & David W. appear to have missed the link 
to http://www.rowmaps.com/. Can others see it?


DaveF.

On 21/12/2016 11:07, Chris Hill wrote:
Have any Local Authorities released their definitive maps or 
statements under OGL? I want to know so I can use examples as a lever 
to persuade East Riding of Yorkshire and Hull City councils to release 
*anything* as open data.


Chris Hill
(User chillly)



On 21 Dec 2016, at 10:54, Dave F > wrote:


Hi Paul
Short answer: Yes, it can be incorporated as long as it's been issued 
under the Open Government Licence.

http://www.rowmaps.com/

However, this data is not always the most accurate & the consensus is 
that it's much better if "witnessed" by walking it. For example, the 
direction of a few paths on the OS map in my area are set by 
hedgerows which have long since been uprooted.


DaveF


On 21/12/2016 10:39, Paul Berry wrote:

Hi everyone,

As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an 
up-to-date copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this 
information then be incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or 
is it a case of public but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a 
complaint about a rural right of way blockage (without a stopping-up 
order) in my area and have had the need to get very familiar with my 
local footpaths...


Regards,
/Paul/


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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F


On 21/12/2016 11:04, David Woolley wrote:
A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many 
definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they 
will almost certainly be online.


It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map 
will know the copyright status.


Could you expand on your claims please.

Why do you believe the data on http://www.rowmaps.com/ isn't OGL & the 
distributor wouldn't know?


DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden David Woolley

On 21/12/16 10:54, Dave F wrote:

Short answer: Yes, it can be incorporated as long as it's been issued
under the Open Government Licence.
http://www.rowmaps.com/


A more complete answer is "probably not", as it is unlikely that many 
definitive maps are provided under such a licence.  If they are, they 
will almost certainly be online.


It is also unlikely that anyone providing physical access to the map 
will know the copyright status.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Philip Barnes
On Wed, 2016-12-21 at 10:39 +, Paul Berry wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an up-to-
> date copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then
> be incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of
> public but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a
> rural right of way blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area
> and have had the need to get very familiar with my local footpaths...
> 
In most cases it cannot be simply incorporated into OSM. The definitive
maps were drawn onto OS maps, and all I have seen are overlayed onto OS
maps with the words Crown Copyright.

You should not copy from these maps, but they are useful to get an idea
of what is missing and can then be surveyed.

Another reason not to copy is that they are not 100% accurate and we
should map what is on the ground. The maps were originally drawn by
parish councils, and not always accurately. For example here in
Shropshire a path is shown passing through a house, built on a right of
way? No, the house was built in the 1500s, and the pen must have
slipped.

The other advantage of surveying is that we can map the barriers, this
is when OSM can beat OS as a walking map. When you survey the paths,
please map the stiles, kissing_gates, gates etc. That is important
information for many walkers.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Dave F

Hi Paul
Short answer: Yes, it can be incorporated as long as it's been issued 
under the Open Government Licence.

http://www.rowmaps.com/

However, this data is not always the most accurate & the consensus is 
that it's much better if "witnessed" by walking it. For example, the 
direction of a few paths on the OS map in my area are set by hedgerows 
which have long since been uprooted.


DaveF


On 21/12/2016 10:39, Paul Berry wrote:

Hi everyone,

As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an 
up-to-date copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information 
then be incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case 
of public but copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a 
rural right of way blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area 
and have had the need to get very familiar with my local footpaths...


Regards,
/Paul/


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[Talk-GB] Local Authority rights of way information

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Paul Berry
Hi everyone,

As you probably know, local authorities must keep available an up-to-date
copy of rights of way for inspection. Can this information then be
incorporated into OSM, having been witnessed, or is it a case of public but
copyrighted? I'm currently nursing a complaint about a rural right of way
blockage (without a stopping-up order) in my area and have had the need to
get very familiar with my local footpaths...

Regards,
*Paul*
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Re: [Talk-it] OSMit2017 a Genova 8-11 febbraio in FOSS4G

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Lorenzo Perone
Ciao Alessandro,
ne approfitto per segnalare in lista questa
iniziativa
che abbiamo appena lanciato e di cui Wikimedia Italia è partner.
Credo che possa essere nelle "corde" di molte delle persona iscritte a
questa lista e quindi vi chiedo, senza ritegno, di donare!
In questa prima fase della campagna contiamo molto sul sostegno delle
associazioni che ci sono "vicine", credo molto nell'iniziativa e spero di
avere il vostro sostegno.
Grazie.
Lorenzo Perone


Lorenzo Perone
twitter: @lorenzo_perone 
photoblog: http://immagini.me


Il giorno 21 dicembre 2016 11:18, Alessandro Palmas <
alessandro.pal...@wikimedia.it> ha scritto:

> Buongiorno,
>
> desidero comunicare a tutta la comunità OpenStreetMap che OSMit2017 avrà
> luogo dall'8 all'11 febbraio a Genova, ospitata dall'Università di Genova
> a Villa Giustiniani Cambiaso http://osm.org/go/xX0mu8kRd--?m= nella stessa
> sede che vide svolgersi OSMit2010
>
> OSMit2017 si terrà all'interno di FOSS4G-IT dentro al quale oltre a OSMit
> vedrà svolgersi il GFOSS DAY e il meeting degli utenti italiani di GRASS
> L'appuntamento è significativo anche perchè vede unirsi nuovamente le
> comunità che sviluppano e/o supportano dati e software geografici liberi.
>
> Il core della manifestazione sarà il 9 e 10 febbraio in cui si terranno
> gli interventi, in particolare il 10 sarà una giornata focalizzata sulla
> P.A. e la Protezione Civile.
> Il giorno 8 sarà dedicato agli workshop (il termine per la presentazione
> era il 15 dicembre ma sarà prorogato); sabato 11 sarà una giornata OSM,
> all'esterno dell'Università, che vedrà probabilmente un mapping party con
> hackathon.
>
> Seguiranno ulteriori informazioni, stamane mi premeva comunicarvi le date
> dell'evento.
>
> Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
>
>
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[Talk-it] OSMit2017 a Genova 8-11 febbraio in FOSS4G

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Alessandro Palmas
Buongiorno,

desidero comunicare a tutta la comunità OpenStreetMap che OSMit2017 avrà
luogo dall'8 all'11 febbraio a Genova, ospitata dall'Università di Genova
a Villa Giustiniani Cambiaso http://osm.org/go/xX0mu8kRd--?m= nella stessa
sede che vide svolgersi OSMit2010

OSMit2017 si terrà all'interno di FOSS4G-IT dentro al quale oltre a OSMit
vedrà svolgersi il GFOSS DAY e il meeting degli utenti italiani di GRASS
L'appuntamento è significativo anche perchè vede unirsi nuovamente le
comunità che sviluppano e/o supportano dati e software geografici liberi.

Il core della manifestazione sarà il 9 e 10 febbraio in cui si terranno
gli interventi, in particolare il 10 sarà una giornata focalizzata sulla
P.A. e la Protezione Civile.
Il giorno 8 sarà dedicato agli workshop (il termine per la presentazione
era il 15 dicembre ma sarà prorogato); sabato 11 sarà una giornata OSM,
all'esterno dell'Università, che vedrà probabilmente un mapping party con
hackathon.

Seguiranno ulteriori informazioni, stamane mi premeva comunicarvi le date
dell'evento.

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Données du STIF sur Osmose

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Frédéric Rodrigo

Le 21/12/2016 à 09:58, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

Merci Fred, Noémie pour ces outils.
Je rejoins les critiques : c'est pour l'instant un peu galère voir 
trompeur.

Je comprends néanmoins qu'on ne puisse faire mieux pour l'instant ...

En ce moment j'aborde le problème de qualité avec divers acteurs du 
transport et j'ai fait un petit comparatif rapide sur deux quartiers 
exemple : https://www.slideshare.net/secret/yhSSpQ6mzE6SH6

Des suggestions d'amélioration ?

Y aurait-il moyen de générer des stats plus poussées ? Je cherche par 
exemple l'écart moyen de la distance entre les données STIF et OSM, 
les valeurs max/min, voir l'écart-type.

Fred peut-être est-ce déjà intégré à OSMOSE ? Je n'ai pas trouvé.

Oui Osmose génère en même temps des CSV, mais je ne retrouve pas l'URL


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Re: [Talk-de] Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Martin Czarkowski
+1

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Wochennotizteam [mailto:wnrea...@gmail.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Dezember 2016 10:29
> An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
> Betreff: Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> die Wochennotiz Nr. 335 mit vielen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der
> OpenStreetMap Welt ist da:
> 
> http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2016/12/wochennotiz-nr-335/
> 
> Viel Spaß beim Lesen!
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Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Wochennotizteam
Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 335 mit vielen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der OpenStreetMap 
Welt ist da:

http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2016/12/wochennotiz-nr-335/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen!
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Wochennotiz Nr. 335 13.12.2016–19.12.2016

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Wochennotizteam
Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 335 mit vielen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der OpenStreetMap 
Welt ist da:

http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2016/12/wochennotiz-nr-335/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen!
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Données du STIF sur Osmose

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden Florian LAINEZ
Merci Fred, Noémie pour ces outils.
Je rejoins les critiques : c'est pour l'instant un peu galère voir trompeur.
Je comprends néanmoins qu'on ne puisse faire mieux pour l'instant ...

En ce moment j'aborde le problème de qualité avec divers acteurs du
transport et j'ai fait un petit comparatif rapide sur deux quartiers
exemple : https://www.slideshare.net/secret/yhSSpQ6mzE6SH6
Des suggestions d'amélioration ?

Y aurait-il moyen de générer des stats plus poussées ? Je cherche par
exemple l'écart moyen de la distance entre les données STIF et OSM, les
valeurs max/min, voir l'écart-type.
Fred peut-être est-ce déjà intégré à OSMOSE ? Je n'ai pas trouvé.
J'aimerai également détailler ça par gestionnaire de réseau, étant donné
qu'il y en a 75 dans les données du STIF.

Bonne journée


Le 20 décembre 2016 à 21:32, Noémie Lehuby 
a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> Bonne idée Christian !
> j'ai créé une page de débug qui précise, dans OSM et dans l'opendata, pour
> chaque arrêt avec une ref STIF, les lignes desservies :
> https://ref-lignes-stif.5apps.com/stop.html?osm_stop_id=472985886
>
> il faut lui passer en paramètre l'id OSM du noeud correspondant à l'arrêt.
>
> Ça gère aussi les cas où un arrêt OSM correspond à plusieurs arrêts dans
> l'opendata (dont certains pas forcément du bon côté de la route ...) :
> https://ref-lignes-stif.5apps.com/stop.html?osm_stop_id=928458342
>
> N'hésitez pas à l'utiliser pour vérifier vos ajouts de références STIF ;)
>
> Noémie
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 18:42:52 +0100
>> From: Christian Quest 
>> To: Discussions sur OSM en français  
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Données du STIF sur Osmose
>> Message-ID:
>> > gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> C'est trompeur en effet...
>>
>> J'ai intégré des arrêts sur ma commune et il manque quelques infos de
>> contexte pour savoir qu'on ajoute bien le bon ID quand il y a ambiguité.
>> Il
>> faudrait par exemple le N° des lignes et la direction sinon deux arrêts
>> proches peuvent être intervertis très facilement.
>>
>
>
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-- 

*Florian Lainez*
@overflorian 
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Re: [Talk-GB] 3rd Midlands OSM New Year Meetup

2016-12-21 Diskussionsfäden SK53
I'll do my best to get along.

These paths have not only been well surveyed over past 7 years, but they
are short. I can probably describe each of these routes across the railway
to a very fine level of detail. For instance there is a fine hedge of Holly
along the east side of the path north of Barratt Lane  no 1 crossing. A
great place for Holly Blue butterflies in the Spring.

Defending the Attenborough crossings will undoubtedly generate a great
campaigning team. I'm already in touch with members of the reserve
management committee and Beeston Wildlife Group (there is a distinct
overlap).

Footpaths in the countryside often don't gave such defenders, getting them
mapped & problems reported is a very worthwhile OSM activity. In some parts
of the country highway authorities don't even meet the bare minimum of
their statutory duties for rights of way. (I'm still awaiting a response
from Kent about a blocked path I reported months ago).

Cheers,

Jerry

On 20 Dec 2016 22:07, "Philip Barnes"  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue Dec 20 21:22:26 2016 GMT, Andy Townsend wrote:
> > On 20/12/2016 20:55, Paul Sladen wrote:
> > >
> > > [Based on developments today], Why not hold it at the Bluebell in
> > > Attenborough on the evening of Wednesday, 8 January 2016[1].
> >
> > Because it'd be dark? :)
>
> And a worknight would exclude the West Midlands part of The Midlands ;)
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> --
> Sent from my Jolla
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