Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Andrew Davidson]

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 9:27 AM  wrote:

> This looks to me to be unqualified permission. There is no mention of
> CC-BY-SA and I would expect that their permission to continue till
> they revoked it.
>
> The licence change over was opt-in not opt-out.
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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[forster]

Hi

Their statement is:

"Yes, the Commission agrees to your using our information to provide  
data (for Openstreetmap, others)"


This looks to me to be unqualified permission. There is no mention of  
CC-BY-SA and I would expect that their permission to continue till  
they revoked it.


Tony


On 26/4/20 11:28 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:


I asked on the talk-gb list and this was discussed before, they did get
a response from CWGC in 2010:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2020-April/024456.html

contains this link:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2010-August/010110.html



Is that still valid? This is from when OSM was CC-BY-SA. Is the CWGC
still happy for OSM to use the data if we are releasing it under ODbL?

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Andrew Davidson]

On 26/4/20 11:28 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:


I asked on the talk-gb list and this was discussed before, they did get
a response from CWGC in 2010:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2020-April/024456.html

contains this link:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2010-August/010110.html



Is that still valid? This is from when OSM was CC-BY-SA. Is the CWGC 
still happy for OSM to use the data if we are releasing it under ODbL?


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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Andy Townsend]

On 26/04/2020 14:52, Simon Poole wrote:

...  I would suggest at least giving a heads up on a
suitable country specific medium before proceeding, doing otherwise is
just going to lead to strife.

It's an import, so the guidelines linked from 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import would apply.  That needn't be 
a problem - if the plans are good and the necessary steps are followed 
then (based on comments so far from GB and AU) I don't think people 
would complain.  What would be a problem would be if lots of "duplicate 
cemeteries" started appearing, or "cemeteries in obviously the wrong place".


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Simon Poole]

At the danger of pointing out the glaringly obvious: assuming that
licence etc gets sorted out, the data is not being added in Australia,
but in other countries. If the number of imported elements is above a
handful in a country I would suggest at least giving a heads up on a
suitable country specific medium before proceeding, doing otherwise is
just going to lead to strife.

Simon




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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/04/2020 13:50, Warin wrote:
> On 21/4/20 7:57 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> On 21/04/2020 09:53, Greg Lauer wrote:
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
>>> battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well
>>> as an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...
>>>
>>> The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly
>>> clear - unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons
>>> Open Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written)
>>> permission from the copyright holder. 
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval
>>>   
>>>
>>> A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate
>>> that they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the
>>> only way OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to
>>> send them an email asking if they will give permission to make there
>>> data available in OSM. I can send you a template letter that
>>> explains the licensing conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data
>>> set would be great as a global dataset!
>> I've sent the emails but even if they don't respond before the weekend,
>> I still feel that people can do useful activities with the data, even if
>> it is not an import to OSM just yet
> 
> 
> I think all that can be done now is to look at the data, check if it is 
> missing from OSM.
> 
> If missing .. go there and map it, or use what imagery OSM has available and 
> map what you can from that. 
> 
> You cannot copy data from the Anzacathon pages nor any linked pages, 
> at least not any that are not compatible with OSM requirements. 
> 


I asked on the talk-gb list and this was discussed before, they did get
a response from CWGC in 2010:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2020-April/024456.html

contains this link:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2010-August/010110.html

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 22/04/2020 00:15, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> 
> 
> On 21/04/2020 23:57, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 21/04/2020 13:50, Warin wrote:
>>> On 21/4/20 7:57 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:
 On 21/04/2020 09:53, Greg Lauer wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
> battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well
> as an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...
>
> The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly
> clear - unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons
> Open Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written)
> permission from the copyright holder. 
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval
>   
>
> A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate
> that they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the
> only way OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to
> send them an email asking if they will give permission to make there
> data available in OSM. I can send you a template letter that
> explains the licensing conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data
> set would be great as a global dataset!
 I've sent the emails but even if they don't respond before the weekend,
 I still feel that people can do useful activities with the data, even if
 it is not an import to OSM just yet
>>>
>>>
>>> I think all that can be done now is to look at the data, check if it is 
>>> missing from OSM.
>>>
>>> If missing .. go there and map it, or use what imagery OSM has available 
>>> and map what you can from that. 
>>>
>>> You cannot copy data from the Anzacathon pages nor any linked pages, 
>>> at least not any that are not compatible with OSM requirements. 
>>>
>>
>>
>> I fully agree
>>
>> As stated previously, I personally volunteer to go and do exactly what
>> you propose: visiting Anzac sites.  I'm in the alps every weekend, if
>> you look closely you will find one of my vehicles in the video.
>>
>> Moreover, it may be midnight here but just for fun I'm going to stay up
>> and write a PostgreSQL stored procedure to calculate geodesics from any
>> point in any of the data sets.
>>
>> That is helpful, but it is not the complete solution.  I registered
>> anzacathon.com but I don't claim to own it.  I'll do what I can, like
>> publishing my PostgreSQL code, but I put this out as a non-profit,
>> collaborative project.
>>
> 
> 
> Actually, it looks like we have a friend in PostGIS
> https://postgis.net/
> 
> From my existing PostgreSQL work:
> https://gitlab.com/anzacathon/postgresql
> 
> anybody with PostGIS can find local Anzac sites.

I've now published a blog[1] and schema[2] example for using PostGIS to
help find nearby Anzacs

The example query, using PostGIS to find all Anzacs within a given
radius, is quite useful for any ex-pat living in Europe.

Are there any other queries or reports that would be useful for mappers?

Regards,

Daniel


1. https://danielpocock.com/anzacathon-the-benefits-of-open-data/
2. https://gitlab.com/anzacathon/postgresql/-/blob/master/schema.sql

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/04/2020 23:57, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> 
> 
> On 21/04/2020 13:50, Warin wrote:
>> On 21/4/20 7:57 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>> On 21/04/2020 09:53, Greg Lauer wrote:
 Hi Daniel,

 As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
 battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well
 as an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...

 The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly
 clear - unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons
 Open Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written)
 permission from the copyright holder. 

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval
   

 A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate
 that they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the
 only way OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to
 send them an email asking if they will give permission to make there
 data available in OSM. I can send you a template letter that
 explains the licensing conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data
 set would be great as a global dataset!
>>> I've sent the emails but even if they don't respond before the weekend,
>>> I still feel that people can do useful activities with the data, even if
>>> it is not an import to OSM just yet
>>
>>
>> I think all that can be done now is to look at the data, check if it is 
>> missing from OSM.
>>
>> If missing .. go there and map it, or use what imagery OSM has available and 
>> map what you can from that. 
>>
>> You cannot copy data from the Anzacathon pages nor any linked pages, 
>> at least not any that are not compatible with OSM requirements. 
>>
> 
> 
> I fully agree
> 
> As stated previously, I personally volunteer to go and do exactly what
> you propose: visiting Anzac sites.  I'm in the alps every weekend, if
> you look closely you will find one of my vehicles in the video.
> 
> Moreover, it may be midnight here but just for fun I'm going to stay up
> and write a PostgreSQL stored procedure to calculate geodesics from any
> point in any of the data sets.
> 
> That is helpful, but it is not the complete solution.  I registered
> anzacathon.com but I don't claim to own it.  I'll do what I can, like
> publishing my PostgreSQL code, but I put this out as a non-profit,
> collaborative project.
> 


Actually, it looks like we have a friend in PostGIS
https://postgis.net/

From my existing PostgreSQL work:
https://gitlab.com/anzacathon/postgresql

anybody with PostGIS can find local Anzac sites.

Regards,

Daniel


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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock via Talk-au]

On 21/04/2020 13:50, Warin wrote:
> On 21/4/20 7:57 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> On 21/04/2020 09:53, Greg Lauer wrote:
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
>>> battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well
>>> as an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...
>>>
>>> The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly
>>> clear - unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons
>>> Open Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written)
>>> permission from the copyright holder. 
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval
>>>   
>>>
>>> A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate
>>> that they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the
>>> only way OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to
>>> send them an email asking if they will give permission to make there
>>> data available in OSM. I can send you a template letter that
>>> explains the licensing conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data
>>> set would be great as a global dataset!
>> I've sent the emails but even if they don't respond before the weekend,
>> I still feel that people can do useful activities with the data, even if
>> it is not an import to OSM just yet
> 
> 
> I think all that can be done now is to look at the data, check if it is 
> missing from OSM.
> 
> If missing .. go there and map it, or use what imagery OSM has available and 
> map what you can from that. 
> 
> You cannot copy data from the Anzacathon pages nor any linked pages, 
> at least not any that are not compatible with OSM requirements. 
> 


I fully agree

As stated previously, I personally volunteer to go and do exactly what
you propose: visiting Anzac sites.  I'm in the alps every weekend, if
you look closely you will find one of my vehicles in the video.

Moreover, it may be midnight here but just for fun I'm going to stay up
and write a PostgreSQL stored procedure to calculate geodesics from any
point in any of the data sets.

That is helpful, but it is not the complete solution.  I registered
anzacathon.com but I don't claim to own it.  I'll do what I can, like
publishing my PostgreSQL code, but I put this out as a non-profit,
collaborative project.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Warin]

On 21/4/20 7:57 pm, Daniel Pocock wrote:


On 21/04/2020 09:53, Greg Lauer wrote:

Hi Daniel,

As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well
as an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...

The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly
clear - unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons
Open Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written)
permission from the copyright holder.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval

A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate
that they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the
only way OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to
send them an email asking if they will give permission to make there
data available in OSM. I can send you a template letter that
explains the licensing conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data
set would be great as a global dataset!

I've sent the emails but even if they don't respond before the weekend,
I still feel that people can do useful activities with the data, even if
it is not an import to OSM just yet



I think all that can be done now is to look at the data, check if it is missing 
from OSM.

If missing .. go there and map it, or use what imagery OSM has available and 
map what you can from that.

You cannot copy data from the Anzacathon pages nor any linked pages,
at least not any that are not compatible with OSM requirements.

 



The OSM site has a compatibility table, the UK Open Government License
(OGL v3.0) is listed as an alternative to the ODbL
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/

Therefore, I asked CWGC to consider both of those possibilities.



The use of OSM within a web service (such as the CWGC) has no
relationship to whether we can incorporate and/or import the said data
sets into OSM. Again unless explicit permission is given it will need to
be requested.

Do you actually need to integrate the data sets into OSM? You seem
fairly talented at data wrangling and my suggestion would be build your
web services using OSM as a base map, and make the ancillary data
available as a separate overlay. This way you will not potentially
breach the terms and conditions of the OSM licence (but still please
check with the data providers that you can use that data in this way).
There are multiple other ways that you can display the data sets with
out actually integrating into OSM.

I look forward to seeing the completed product!

Please note I'm not personally volunteering to do everything described
on the Anzacathon page.  My own aim is to provide a data pipeline /
platform for people to be creative.

If anybody has time to promote the Anzacathon link or video through
their own communities or online channels that would help, even if you
don't have time to participate.

If you know of similar initiatives for Anzac Day, I'm also happy to
include them on the links page.

Another issue for me is to decide on a single communications platform
for participants.  Some hackathons are using Slack, for example, but I
don't want to encourage things that are not really open.  Are there any
more open platforms that are popular with the mapping community or other
like-minded people?

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/04/2020 09:53, Greg Lauer wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
> battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well
> as an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...
> 
> The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly
> clear - unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons
> Open Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written)
> permission from the copyright holder. 
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval
>   
> 
> A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate
> that they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the
> only way OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to
> send them an email asking if they will give permission to make there
> data available in OSM. I can send you a template letter that
> explains the licensing conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data
> set would be great as a global dataset!

I've sent the emails but even if they don't respond before the weekend,
I still feel that people can do useful activities with the data, even if
it is not an import to OSM just yet

The OSM site has a compatibility table, the UK Open Government License
(OGL v3.0) is listed as an alternative to the ODbL
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/

Therefore, I asked CWGC to consider both of those possibilities.


> The use of OSM within a web service (such as the CWGC) has no
> relationship to whether we can incorporate and/or import the said data
> sets into OSM. Again unless explicit permission is given it will need to
> be requested.
> 
> Do you actually need to integrate the data sets into OSM? You seem
> fairly talented at data wrangling and my suggestion would be build your
> web services using OSM as a base map, and make the ancillary data
> available as a separate overlay. This way you will not potentially
> breach the terms and conditions of the OSM licence (but still please
> check with the data providers that you can use that data in this way).
> There are multiple other ways that you can display the data sets with
> out actually integrating into OSM.
> 
> I look forward to seeing the completed product!

Please note I'm not personally volunteering to do everything described
on the Anzacathon page.  My own aim is to provide a data pipeline /
platform for people to be creative.

If anybody has time to promote the Anzacathon link or video through
their own communities or online channels that would help, even if you
don't have time to participate.

If you know of similar initiatives for Anzac Day, I'm also happy to
include them on the links page.

Another issue for me is to decide on a single communications platform
for participants.  Some hackathons are using Slack, for example, but I
don't want to encourage things that are not really open.  Are there any
more open platforms that are popular with the mapping community or other
like-minded people?

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Greg Lauer]

Hi Daniel,

As both a (very amateur) military historian who has visited many of
battlefields/CWG's through the Asia Pacific, Africa and Europe, as well as
an Open Data proponent, I really like what you are trying to do. But...

The terms and conditions of OSM in relation to data imports is fairly clear
- unless the data is already licensed under an Open Data Commons Open
Database License (ODbL) then you will need (preferably written) permission
from the copyright holder.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_3_-_License_approval


A cursory glance at each of the providers websites does not indicate that
they have licensed under ODbL. Yes, this is pain, but it is the only way
OSM can ensure that the data can be legally used. Feel free to send them an
email asking if they will give permission to make there data available in
OSM. I can send you a template letter that explains the licensing
conditions to the copyright holder. The CWGC data set would be great as a
global dataset!

The use of OSM within a web service (such as the CWGC) has no relationship
to whether we can incorporate and/or import the said data sets into OSM.
Again unless explicit permission is given it will need to be requested.

Do you actually need to integrate the data sets into OSM? You seem fairly
talented at data wrangling and my suggestion would be build your web
services using OSM as a base map, and make the ancillary data available as
a separate overlay. This way you will not potentially breach the terms and
conditions of the OSM licence (but still please check with the data
providers that you can use that data in this way). There are multiple other
ways that you can display the data sets with out actually integrating into
OSM.

I look forward to seeing the completed product!

Cheers

Greg



On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 4:10 PM Daniel Pocock  wrote:

>
>
> On 21/04/2020 02:25, Warin wrote:
> > On 20/4/20 9:10 am, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >> On 20/04/2020 00:49, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:52 AM Daniel Pocock  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk
> import of
> >>> their cemetery data.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The copyright notice explicitly says you can only use it for personal
> use.
> >> "Personal use" is one of those things that can be vague.  They don't
> >> elaborate.
> >
> > 'They' don't need to elaborate.
> > Most, if not all, lawyers will tell you that it excludes 'business use'
> where it is used to generate money.
> > OSM requires that OSM data can be used to generate money.
> >
> > This, to me, clearly says that the data cannot be used in OSM.
>
> Agreed, but it is safe for people to explore the data at home as part of
> the Anzacathon
>
> >> All these sites include a lot of photos and other material.  They may
> >> only apply the strictest definition of their license to those things, it
> >> could be worth contacting them to find out if they are happy for
> >> OpenStreetMap collaboration on the location data.
> >
> > Go right ahead and contact them.
> >
> >> The Anzacathon itself is a personal and non-profit activity that I've
> >> contributed to as a volunteer and I've cited all the data sources so I'm
> >> quite comfortable with the licensing.
> >
> > You may be comfortable.
> >
> > Will OSM lawyers be?
> >
> > Will the authors and lawyers of those data sources be equally
> comfortable?
>
> I agree with your concerns for the specific case of import to OSM
>
> I notice that AWM is using OSM on their site but CWGC is using Google
> Maps on their site.  An initiative to contact the CWGC might look at
> something broader than this data set and look at the general question of
> helping them operate without Google, like AWM.
>
> The UK Government also has a strong commitment to Open Data and this
> would be a factor for CWGC
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_data_in_the_United_Kingdom
>
> Based on the above, what are the things that people can do
> constructively with the data as it stands?  Any suggestions would be
> really welcome.
>
> Hopefully I will have some more time to work on it myself this week, I
> was planning to make a simple function for people to search for war
> graves and monuments within a given radius.  That doesn't exist on any
> of the sites right now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 21/04/2020 02:25, Warin wrote:
> On 20/4/20 9:10 am, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> On 20/04/2020 00:49, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:52 AM Daniel Pocock >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk import of
>>> their cemetery data.
>>>
>>>
>>> The copyright notice explicitly says you can only use it for personal use.
>> "Personal use" is one of those things that can be vague.  They don't
>> elaborate.
> 
> 'They' don't need to elaborate.
> Most, if not all, lawyers will tell you that it excludes 'business use' where 
> it is used to generate money. 
> OSM requires that OSM data can be used to generate money. 
> 
> This, to me, clearly says that the data cannot be used in OSM. 

Agreed, but it is safe for people to explore the data at home as part of
the Anzacathon

>> All these sites include a lot of photos and other material.  They may
>> only apply the strictest definition of their license to those things, it
>> could be worth contacting them to find out if they are happy for
>> OpenStreetMap collaboration on the location data.
> 
> Go right ahead and contact them. 
> 
>> The Anzacathon itself is a personal and non-profit activity that I've
>> contributed to as a volunteer and I've cited all the data sources so I'm
>> quite comfortable with the licensing.
> 
> You may be comfortable. 
> 
> Will OSM lawyers be? 
> 
> Will the authors and lawyers of those data sources be equally comfortable? 

I agree with your concerns for the specific case of import to OSM

I notice that AWM is using OSM on their site but CWGC is using Google
Maps on their site.  An initiative to contact the CWGC might look at
something broader than this data set and look at the general question of
helping them operate without Google, like AWM.

The UK Government also has a strong commitment to Open Data and this
would be a factor for CWGC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_data_in_the_United_Kingdom

Based on the above, what are the things that people can do
constructively with the data as it stands?  Any suggestions would be
really welcome.

Hopefully I will have some more time to work on it myself this week, I
was planning to make a simple function for people to search for war
graves and monuments within a given radius.  That doesn't exist on any
of the sites right now.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Warin]

On 20/4/20 9:10 am, Daniel Pocock wrote:


On 20/04/2020 00:49, Andrew Davidson wrote:

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:52 AM Daniel Pocock mailto:dan...@pocock.pro>> wrote:

 The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk import of
 their cemetery data.


The copyright notice explicitly says you can only use it for personal use.


"Personal use" is one of those things that can be vague.  They don't
elaborate.


'They' don't need to elaborate.
Most, if not all, lawyers will tell you that it excludes 'business use' where 
it is used to generate money.
OSM requires that OSM data can be used to generate money.

This, to me, clearly says that the data cannot be used in OSM.


All these sites include a lot of photos and other material.  They may
only apply the strictest definition of their license to those things, it
could be worth contacting them to find out if they are happy for
OpenStreetMap collaboration on the location data.


Go right ahead and contact them.



The Anzacathon itself is a personal and non-profit activity that I've
contributed to as a volunteer and I've cited all the data sources so I'm
quite comfortable with the licensing.


You may be comfortable.

Will OSM lawyers be?

Will the authors and lawyers of those data sources be equally comfortable?


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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 20/04/2020 01:20, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Thanks for your enthusiasm Daniel, but a couple of issues, sorry.
> 
> Anything out of the AWM is covered by CC-BY-NC-3.0 copyright, so we
> would need permission to use it.
> 
> https://www.awm.gov.au/about/organisation/corporate/copyright

From an OSM perspective, I'm not presenting any location data from AWM
so far.

But I agree that people need to respect copyright, that is why I
included copyright links for each data source.

> &, have you asked for permission to use the word Anzac?
> 
> https://www.dva.gov.au/recognition/events-and-reminders-all-who-served/protecting-word-anzac

That says the word is protected from people trying to make money

I'm not asking for money or endorsing any product

The site is aimed at encouraging people to investigate data about
Anzacs, so it is much like writing a book about WW1 with Anzac in the title.

It appears quite OK to register an Anzac domain and use it for Anzac
commemorative material.  I wouldn't use it as my email address, on the
other hand, as well as violating the regulations, it would be completely
inappropriate.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks for your enthusiasm Daniel, but a couple of issues, sorry.

Anything out of the AWM is covered by CC-BY-NC-3.0 copyright, so we would
need permission to use it.

https://www.awm.gov.au/about/organisation/corporate/copyright

&, have you asked for permission to use the word Anzac?

https://www.dva.gov.au/recognition/events-and-reminders-all-who-served/protecting-word-anzac

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 20/04/2020 00:49, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:52 AM Daniel Pocock  > wrote:
> 
> The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk import of
> their cemetery data.
> 
> 
> The copyright notice explicitly says you can only use it for personal use.


"Personal use" is one of those things that can be vague.  They don't
elaborate.

All these sites include a lot of photos and other material.  They may
only apply the strictest definition of their license to those things, it
could be worth contacting them to find out if they are happy for
OpenStreetMap collaboration on the location data.

The Anzacathon itself is a personal and non-profit activity that I've
contributed to as a volunteer and I've cited all the data sources so I'm
quite comfortable with the licensing.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Andrew Davidson]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:52 AM Daniel Pocock  wrote:

> The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk import of
> their cemetery data.
>

The copyright notice explicitly says you can only use it for personal use.


> For the other data sources, I suggest it may not be case of bulk import.
>

The import guidelines applies to copying *one* or more items from an
external data source into OSM. Otherwise people would be able to circumvent
the import guidelines by using salami tactics and just do it one item at a
time.
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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 19/04/2020 23:41, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> I would suggest that you have a read through this:
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import
> 

The CWGC copyright notice appears to be compatible with a bulk import of
their cemetery data.

For the other data sources, I suggest it may not be case of bulk import.
 It would be useful to develop a process for people to verify them one
by one or cross-check them against other databases.

I'm personally willing to verify any Anzac monument that I can reach by
road, that basically covers much of Switzerland, north of Italy,
Austria, parts of France and south of Germany.  I'm also happy to take
my video gear and film some sites, as I've done already from time to time.

But to put that offer in perspective: there are over 120,000 records in
the Traces of War database.  I need a little bit of help to refine that
down to a list of maybe 5 - 10 priority sites I would visit on weekends
over the next year.  Any other ex-pat or backpacker who wants to
contribute will also need some sort of refined list to work from.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: [talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Andrew Davidson]

I would suggest that you have a read through this:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import
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[talk-au] Anzacathon and mapping possibilities

[Daniel Pocock]

Hi all,

I've put together an Anzacathon online event and mapping is a big part of it

https://anzacathon.com/

https://danielpocock.com/anzacathon-national-hackathon-saving-anzac-day/

Some of the things that I've done already:

- adding Anzac monuments (e.g. plane crash locations) into OpenStreetMap

- putting links from other sites to the relevant nodes in OpenStreetMap

Now we have two very big tables[1] of map coordinates, these could be
used to detect things that are missing from the maps:

- the full CWGC list of cemeteries (over 20,000 records)

- the Traces of War list of monuments, crashes, battles, etc (over
120,000 records)

If anybody wants to help with the overall Anzacathon or focus on the
mapping aspects of it then you are very welcome to do so.

Regards,

Daniel

1. https://anzacathon.com/data-sources.shtml

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