Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
On 9/4/22 09:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 18:44, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: Just try things out, control+Z to undo the last command .. you can even press it a few times to go back a bit further. Oh yes, ctrl+Z has had lot's of use! :-) And if your like me, you realize after sleeping on it, the last changeset you made is wrong .. so you revert your own changeset. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 18:44, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just try things out, control+Z to undo the last command .. you can even > press it a few times to go back a bit further. > Oh yes, ctrl+Z has had lot's of use! :-) Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
To be sure everyone reading knows, JOSM's buffer has amazing undo capacity, I believe "all the way back to the beginning of the session." And there's the fact you can edit, edit, play with things all day and night long, then you simply do not upload to the OSM servers (and into the fabric of our map). That's a delightfully clear boundary and when you decide you DO want to upload your changes, JOSM wraps doing that up quite nicely (with the way it prompts for changeset comments, et cetera). Good editor, JOSM. I can't like it enough! (Meaning I'm crazy-enthusiastic for it). OSM data structures nutshell: there are nodes, ways, closed ways (polygons) and relations. Relations can be routes, boundaries, multipolygons, special_econonmic_zones, aboriginal_lands...these values are around 18 and they are all slightly different, with different rules about what's on the role tags and similar but pretty simple stuff. Keep all that straight (it does take practice) and you've technically mastered writing data into OSM (at a volunteer Contributor level). There's more to mastering OSM than that, but such technical mastery is a great start and even a pretty tall perch from which to further survey the OSM landscape. It's a bit like "I can fly." Have fun mapping, everybody. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
The complete download for the coastline of Australia takes ages. The India Pacific train line takes a little less. That is why only 'parts of interest' are downloads automatically - save time and load on the servers. The great thing about computers is you can play with them, provided you don't save, upload, etc the results, you and the computer won't suffer. Just try things out, control+Z to undo the last command .. you can even press it a few times to go back a bit further. On 8/4/22 16:21, Luke Stewart wrote: Hi Graeme, Having downloaded the full relation, the boundary is completely closed and there is nothing wrong with it. It's simply a warning to say that JOSM has not downloaded the whole relation. Unless you right-click > Download members, JOSM only has the tags of the relation and the members within the bounding box that you downloaded. Cheers, Luke On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 15:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 15:36, Andrew Harvey wrote: It means JOSM hasn't downloaded all the member ways, in one of the panels on the right showing the relation, right clicking download incomplete members will fetch them all. Ah, so everything is in fact actually OK, it's just not showing up properly, right now? Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
Hi Graeme, Having downloaded the full relation, the boundary is completely closed and there is nothing wrong with it. It's simply a warning to say that JOSM has not downloaded the whole relation. Unless you right-click > Download members, JOSM only has the tags of the relation and the members within the bounding box that you downloaded. Cheers, Luke On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 15:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 15:36, Andrew Harvey > wrote: > >> >> It means JOSM hasn't downloaded all the member ways, in one of the panels >> on the right showing the relation, right clicking download incomplete >> members will fetch them all. >> > > Ah, so everything is in fact actually OK, it's just not showing up > properly, right now? > > Thanks > > Graeme > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 15:36, Andrew Harvey wrote: > > It means JOSM hasn't downloaded all the member ways, in one of the panels > on the right showing the relation, right clicking download incomplete > members will fetch them all. > Ah, so everything is in fact actually OK, it's just not showing up properly, right now? Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
On Apr 7, 2022, at 10:36 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote: > It means JOSM hasn't downloaded all the member ways, in one of the panels on > the right showing the relation, right clicking download incomplete members > will fetch them all. Yes, Graeme, if you see in the bottom left pane of JOSM's relation editing window "incomplete" as some of the members of the relation, you should click one of the two bottommost buttons along the left edge of this window: either "download all incomplete members" or "only download the selected ones" (in the left-half of the bottom of the window). The icons should make clear which is which (or will with practice). If you aren't going to "work with" (edit) or upload that relation, this isn't strictly required, but only seeing / having in your JOSM edit buffer some of the pieces of a relation (of any type) can cause some rather undefined behavior. It takes practice to see this and know what to do with situations like this, but you get the hang of it after working with relations whether you do or don't need to download any additional members. Basically, if you are editing that relation, absolutely, you should download all members. If you are simply taking a look, not so much. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 at 15:31, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Was going to mention a couple of days ago - it worked!!! :-) > > Was able to successfully create my lake with an island in it & have also > added islands to other lakes already mapped as MP :sunglasses" :-) > > So thanks everybody for your help! :-) > > Another question though, thanks. > > I'm seeing some relations marked in JOSM as "incomplete": > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9728292#map=14/-28.1002/153.4320 > appears OK here, but not in JOSM? > > How do you fix something like that? > It means JOSM hasn't downloaded all the member ways, in one of the panels on the right showing the relation, right clicking download incomplete members will fetch them all. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
Was going to mention a couple of days ago - it worked!!! :-) Was able to successfully create my lake with an island in it & have also added islands to other lakes already mapped as MP :sunglasses" :-) So thanks everybody for your help! :-) Another question though, thanks. I'm seeing some relations marked in JOSM as "incomplete": https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9728292#map=14/-28.1002/153.4320 appears OK here, but not in JOSM? How do you fix something like that? Thanks Graeme On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 17:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > LOL! > > Go to bed! > > Talk more tmw. > > Thanks > > Graeme > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 15:42, stevea wrote: > >> Thanks for the details: you are up-to-date w.r.t. JOSM and Java, the >> Windows version is OK, but there does exist Windows 11 now, that upgrade is >> "up to you." Windows 10 is still OK and if it's working fine, you can keep >> using it. >> >> The reason you think iD is friendlier is because you've gotten accustomed >> to it. Old dogs CAN learn new tricks! The thing to think about is that iD >> does a lot of "hiding" of things from you to make a candy-sweet >> user-interface experience, whereas JOSM expects you to know about some >> basics (start on the bottom rung of the ladder, but, hey, we all do!) and >> then you simply have to climb. But, the pace at which you do is all up to >> you, so there is no pressure. There might be some wrinkled brow and >> question marks along the way, but learning a new thing is like learning any >> new thing. You study something that explains it in a manner that makes >> sense to you, to toot around with it until you're comfortable with it >> (perhaps with some sour notes while tooting, that's OK), then it is yours >> forever. >> >> Some basics: OSM is data. OSM's data structures are of four basic types >> called nodes, ways, closed ways (polygons) and relations. The first two >> are quite basic (points and directional line segments), the third is simply >> a way that "goes back and touches itself back at the beginning" and >> relations are what's the hard nut to crack. Any of these four types can >> (and should...MUST, really) have at least one tag, a key=value pair. For >> relations, there are a variety of different flavors of tags to make >> different flavors of relation types (like routes, multipolygons, >> boundaries...) AND, very importantly, RELATIONS HAVE MEMBERS. At least >> one, usually many more than one. Members are the "collection of things" >> that make up the relation. For a multipolygon, this is the collection of >> polygons. For a route, the segments of connected ways that make up the >> route. For a boundary, the ways (or closed ways — polygons) that make up >> the boundary. And so on. >> >> For a multipolygon relation, there are something called "role tags." >> Let's start simple: a building with a single courtyard that isn't the >> building. You'd have a polygon representing the building and a polygon >> INSIDE the building polygon representing the courtyard. (So, two >> MEMBERS). Additionally, on a multipolygon, the BUILDING gets a "role tag" >> with value "outer" and the courtyard gets a "role tag" with value "inner." >> This tells OSM "an outer building has an inner courtyard" like this: >> polygon tagged building=yes is a member of the multipolygon, and it gets >> role tag of outer; polygon tagged courtyard=yes (I'm making that up) is >> another member of the multipolygon , and it gets role tag of inner. Done. >> >> Let's make this. After you did your "Create Multipolygon," you likely >> have (off to the right in your "panes" JOSM displays) a pane called >> "Relations: 1" (because you just created 1 relation and this is a new JOSM >> session). If you don't, the "pane panel" has little drop-down triangles >> that allow you to "turn on and off" which panes you want displayed in the >> "pane panel" (again, this panel toggles on and off easily by repeatedly >> clicking the Tab key, so you can see what I'm talking about). Walk down >> the "pane panel" and click these "disclosure triangles" on and off until >> you have a useful set of panes in this panel: Layers, Tags, Selection(s) >> abbreviated Sel., Relations...you might see or want others, like Command >> Stack, Author, Conflict, Validation Results, Map Paint Styles...but they're >> not germane right now. In the Rel pane, single-click your new relation (it >> should be the only one there, as you haven't downloaded anything, have >> you?) and notice there are three buttons below it in this pane: Select, >> Search and History. You could click Select (after a single-click of the >> relation) or you could double-click the relation. This brings up the >> relation window I described before: top half, and a bottom-left and >> bottom-right (with buttons along the lower-left and lower-middle). There >> are buttons along the left of the top part, but I never use them, you might >> not need to, either. In the case of
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
This might not be of use, but if you're trying to add a multipolygon for a building with a hole in it then in JOSM it's really easy: 1. Use the building tool to create multiple rectangles over the building, including any courtyard. 2. Select all the building rectangles, with the courtyard one last (or at least, not first). 3. Press shift-J to join them all together. It magically makes the required relation. Docs at https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/JoinAreas —Sam On 31/3/22 11:15, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: Does anybody know of a simple, straight-forward, how-to for creating multipolygons using JOSM? If possible, I'd prefer a document rather than video, but beggars can't be choosers! I've already found a couple, but they either don't explain how-to, or I get different results when I do what they say? That "could" be because I'm using JOSM for Windows? (Have to as no Java on my laptop!) Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
Hi Graeme, I'm not sure about a tutorial however, once you click 'create multipolygon', a new relation should appear in the section on the right (if you can't see a box for relations you can select Windows at the top of the screen and make sure that relations is checked). From there you can select your new multipolygon in the list of relations and edit/add tags with the pencil+paper icon. At the top section of the popup box you can add tags and at the bottom section you can re-order the members or add roles. Cheers, Luke On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 14:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > I meant to add that I can start OK: > Draw the outer box, > draw the inner box, > select them both, > click on "Create multipolygon" ... > but that's where I hit trouble! > > How do you add tags etc? > > Thanks > > Graeme > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 13:15, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > >> Does anybody know of a simple, straight-forward, how-to for creating >> multipolygons using JOSM? >> >> If possible, I'd prefer a document rather than video, but beggars can't >> be choosers! >> >> I've already found a couple, but they either don't explain how-to, or I >> get different results when I do what they say? >> >> That "could" be because I'm using JOSM for Windows? (Have to as no Java >> on my laptop!) >> >> Thanks >> >> Graeme >> > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
I meant to add that I can start OK: Draw the outer box, draw the inner box, select them both, click on "Create multipolygon" ... but that's where I hit trouble! How do you add tags etc? Thanks Graeme On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 13:15, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Does anybody know of a simple, straight-forward, how-to for creating > multipolygons using JOSM? > > If possible, I'd prefer a document rather than video, but beggars can't be > choosers! > > I've already found a couple, but they either don't explain how-to, or I > get different results when I do what they say? > > That "could" be because I'm using JOSM for Windows? (Have to as no Java on > my laptop!) > > Thanks > > Graeme > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] JOSM multipolygon how-to?
Does anybody know of a simple, straight-forward, how-to for creating multipolygons using JOSM? If possible, I'd prefer a document rather than video, but beggars can't be choosers! I've already found a couple, but they either don't explain how-to, or I get different results when I do what they say? That "could" be because I'm using JOSM for Windows? (Have to as no Java on my laptop!) Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
