Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Warin]

On 10/10/19 11:27, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
Just having a think about it & realised that we have the opposite 
number to consider as well!


https://www.cwaa.org.au/

They would both tie in together nicely as

amenity=community_centre + community_centre=men's_shed / cwa


Appears cwa is not consistently tagged either ...

office=association
amenity=public_building
building=yes

name=cwa or Country Womens Association and possibly others


It would be nice to consistently tag these too.

First ..
name=Country Women's Association ? Some of these will have a branch name 
so that may go here..
brand=Country Women's Association ? This would get around the above 
branch name and then be searchable?



These could simply be a node - as the building may get used for other 
things?


amenity=community_centre
community_centre=country women's association - lower case for this value...



& I don't know any "repair cafe's" either? Although, apparently, they 
are a thing: https://www.facebook.com/RepairCafeAustralia/!


There is one only in all of Sydney???


No wonder I don't know of it.



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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Just having a think about it & realised that we have the opposite number to
consider as well!

https://www.cwaa.org.au/

They would both tie in together nicely as

amenity=community_centre + community_centre=men's_shed / cwa

& I don't know any "repair cafe's" either? Although, apparently, they are a
thing: https://www.facebook.com/RepairCafeAustralia/!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Warin]

On 09/10/19 23:17, Sebastian S. wrote:

What about a repair cafe? Is that also community_center?




To me a repair cafe is a mixture of men shed and maker, tinker, hacker 
space.


They are often also community driven/operated.
I have never seen a 'repair cafe', so I don't know. Do these exist in 
Australia? I have see a few Men's Sheds.

Link? OSM existence?

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 7 October 2019 6:07:19 pm AEDT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/10/19 17:43, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:




7 Oct 2019, 08:39 by matkoni...@tutanota.com:

Based on images it sounds close to hackerspace/makerspace,
but with no (or lower) focus
on software part and greater on direct working with wood and
similar materials.

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dhackerspace

To clarify - not sure whatever describing it in this way is a
good match, but maybe
it may be one of tags used to describe such object.

At least it would be a good idea how it differs from hackerspace
if it is not one
(minimal focus on software and electronics?).


To me 'hackerspace' involves working with computers.

Mens sheds typically involve older tools without any computers,
this keeps the cost down and, as they are older people, usually
the users have knowledge of and skills to suit these older tools.

These were formed to provide social interaction of retired men
using the 'work' as an aid to get them involved.



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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Sebastian S.]

What about a repair cafe? Is that also community_center?

To me a repair cafe is a mixture of men shed and maker, tinker, hacker space.

They are often also community driven/operated.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 7 October 2019 6:07:19 pm AEDT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 07/10/19 17:43, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 7 Oct 2019, 08:39 by matkoni...@tutanota.com:
>>
>> Based on images it sounds close to hackerspace/makerspace, but
>> with no (or lower) focus
>> on software part and greater on direct working with wood and
>> similar materials.
>>
>> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dhackerspace
>>
>> To clarify - not sure whatever describing it in this way is a good 
>> match, but maybe
>> it may be one of tags used to describe such object.
>>
>> At least it would be a good idea how it differs from hackerspace if
>it 
>> is not one
>> (minimal focus on software and electronics?).
>
>To me 'hackerspace' involves working with computers.
>
>Mens sheds typically involve older tools without any computers, this 
>keeps the cost down and, as they are older people, usually the users 
>have knowledge of and skills to suit these older tools.
>
>These were formed to provide social interaction of retired men using
>the 
>'work' as an aid to get them involved.
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 20:03, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 07/10/19 19:57, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> I added this to the ATG as amenity=community_centre +
> community_centre:for=man,
>
>
> 'man' may mean both men and women. On the other hand it maybe the original
> use was for males only. I think the value is not good.
> There are only 4 uses of the community_centre:for=man in the data base. I
> would prefer a different value... with a clear meaning.
>

Yep, I did mention =man/woman earlier, but, thinking about it, I'm not that
thrilled with it.

=community_shed or =mens_shed  keep the "shed" title, which I think is
important

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Andrew Harvey]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 21:03, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 07/10/19 19:57, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> I added this to the ATG as amenity=community_centre +
> community_centre:for=man,
>
>
> 'man' may mean both men and women. On the other hand it maybe the original
> use was for males only. I think the value is not good.
> There are only 4 uses of the community_centre:for=man in the data base. I
> would prefer a different value... with a clear meaning.
>

Yes, but in this context I think it's pretty please it's for males not
persons. I didn't create that tag, it was already documented at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:community_centre:for.

I think we should use Key:community_centre:for rather than Key:gender
because per the wiki "The community_centre:for tag is used to describe the
group of people that is primarily served by the facility, when it is
distinguished by age or gender."
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:community_centre:for


>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Australian_Tagging_Guidelines=revision=1856025=1855758.
> Not saying we need to follow, this if the discussion leads elsewhere it can
> be updated.
>
> To me it seems more like a community centre for men than a club.
> I don't think this warrants it's own tag.
>
> Since there's a wikipedia page, there's a wikidata tag, I wonder if we
> should use operator:wikidata or brand:wikidata to link these all together?
>
> brand rather than operator? I am not certain where the funding comes from,
> some from members contributions.
> I'd think each shed has some control over their operations .. so tagging
> the operator might give the wrong impression?
>

Yes I was leaning more towards brand too.
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Ewen Hill]

The feminine term is a pretty standard "Hen's shed" so perhaps
name=Boyanup Hens Shed
community_centre=community_shed
gender=female

Take shed more as a collective noun rather than a structure per se.

Ewen

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 20:15, Jonathon Rossi  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 5:07 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:25, Ewen Hill  wrote:
>>
>>>  Exceddingly happy with community.shed as proposed
>>>
>>> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 5:15 PM Sam Wilson  wrote:
>>>
 I think amenity=community_centre makes sense, and I think there’s
 enough in Australia to warrant a specific community_centre=mens_shed
 (or maybe community_shed, which Wikipedia suggests as the generic
 term).

>>> Yes, that has a lot going for it!
>>
>> Still as community_centre=community_shed?
>>
>> Or maybe community_shed=man/woman?
>>
>> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:35, Jonathon Rossi  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think shed (sometimes) describes the building not that they do. How
>>> about community_centre=workshop?
>>>
>>
>> No, they're not always located in a "shed", but as that's a pivotal part
>> of the name, I think we should keep reference to it?
>>
>
> Yes, after a bit more research I agree, I hadn't realised other countries
> are also referring to these as men's sheds:
>
> > 1,000 Australia
> > 450 Ireland
> > 300 United Kingdom,
> > 100 New Zealand
> > 20 Canada
> > ~12 United States
> >
> https://www.aarp.org/livable-communities/livable-in-action/info-2019/mens-sheds-in-us.html
>
> Looks like a few Men's Sheds are opening to regular She Shed/Women Shed
> classes for a cost (https://www.thewomensshed.org/). However, these
> classes have a different purpose to the overall goal of Men's Sheds. Are
> they still just a Men's Shed that opens to women? "Like CWA, but with power
> tools" was one way they were described. I wouldn't
> mind community_centre=mens_shed because the overall goal is men's health,
> i.e. the Shoulder to Shoulder slogan, even if the facility gets used by
> women occasionally.
>
> If we go with community_centre=community_shed, we need to make sure the
> wording makes it clear it isn't like Share Shed (
> https://www.shareshed.org.au/), they are like a library for tools run by
> the community.
>
> --
> Jono
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-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Warin]

On 07/10/19 19:57, Andrew Harvey wrote:
I added this to the ATG as amenity=community_centre + 
community_centre:for=man,


'man' may mean both men and women. On the other hand it maybe the 
original use was for males only. I think the value is not good.
There are only 4 uses of the community_centre:for=man in the data base. 
I would prefer a different value... with a clear meaning.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Australian_Tagging_Guidelines=revision=1856025=1855758. 
Not saying we need to follow, this if the discussion leads elsewhere 
it can be updated.


To me it seems more like a community centre for men than a club.
I don't think this warrants it's own tag.

Since there's a wikipedia page, there's a wikidata tag, I wonder if we 
should use operator:wikidata or brand:wikidata to link these all together?
brand rather than operator? I am not certain where the funding comes 
from, some from members contributions.
I'd think each shed has some control over their operations .. so tagging 
the operator might give the wrong impression?


On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 14:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote:


As per the title, what do we call a Men's Shed?
https://mensshed.org/ in case any of our overseas followers don't
know what we're talking about!

I'm guessing club=?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club but what?

Not really a community centre?

Maybe craft=?, possibly =handicraft?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Acraft%3Dhandicraft

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Andrew Harvey]

I added this to the ATG as amenity=community_centre +
community_centre:for=man,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Australian_Tagging_Guidelines=revision=1856025=1855758.
Not saying we need to follow, this if the discussion leads elsewhere it can
be updated.

To me it seems more like a community centre for men than a club.
I don't think this warrants it's own tag.

Since there's a wikipedia page, there's a wikidata tag, I wonder if we
should use operator:wikidata or brand:wikidata to link these all together?

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 14:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> As per the title, what do we call a Men's Shed?
> https://mensshed.org/ in case any of our overseas followers don't know
> what we're talking about!
>
> I'm guessing club=?  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club but
> what?
>
> Not really a community centre?
>
> Maybe craft=?, possibly =handicraft?
>  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Acraft%3Dhandicraft
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Sam Wilson]

I think it'd take all three keys, if a item needs the further 
clarification of man/woman (although my local is pretty inclusive I 
think, so it's not absolute).


Also, if anyone's in the mood for cataloguing men's sheds, there aren't 
many in Wikidata yet: https://w.wiki/9bA


:-)

On 7/10/19 3:07 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:25, Ewen Hill > wrote:


 Exceddingly happy with community.shed as proposed

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 5:15 PM Sam Wilson mailto:s...@samwilson.id.au>> wrote:

I think |amenity=community_centre| makes sense, and I think
there’s enough in Australia to warrant a specific
|community_centre=mens_shed| (or maybe |community_shed|, which
Wikipedia suggests as the generic term).

Yes, that has a lot going for it!

Still as community_centre=community_shed?

Or maybe community_shed=man/woman?

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:35, Jonathon Rossi > wrote:



I think shed (sometimes) describes the building not that they do.
How about community_centre=workshop?


No, they're not always located in a "shed", but as that's a pivotal 
part of the name, I think we should keep reference to it?


Thanks

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

> 7 Oct 2019, 08:39 by matkoni...@tutanota.com:
>
> Based on images it sounds close to hackerspace/makerspace, but with no (or
> lower) focus
> on software part and greater on direct working with wood and similar
> materials.
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dhackerspace
>
> To clarify - not sure whatever describing it in this way is a good match,
> but maybe
> it may be one of tags used to describe such object.
>
> At least it would be a good idea how it differs from hackerspace if it is
> not one
> (minimal focus on software and electronics?).
>

Most of them concentrate on wood- &/or metalwork, but some I've heard of
also play with computers & even cooking!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_shed  gives a good description, & I
didn't realise till reading that article that they were now international!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:25, Ewen Hill  wrote:

>  Exceddingly happy with community.shed as proposed
>
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 5:15 PM Sam Wilson  wrote:
>
>> I think amenity=community_centre makes sense, and I think there’s enough
>> in Australia to warrant a specific community_centre=mens_shed (or maybe
>> community_shed, which Wikipedia suggests as the generic term).
>>
> Yes, that has a lot going for it!

Still as community_centre=community_shed?

Or maybe community_shed=man/woman?

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:35, Jonathon Rossi  wrote:

>
> I think shed (sometimes) describes the building not that they do. How
> about community_centre=workshop?
>

No, they're not always located in a "shed", but as that's a pivotal part of
the name, I think we should keep reference to it?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Warin]

On 07/10/19 17:43, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:




7 Oct 2019, 08:39 by matkoni...@tutanota.com:

Based on images it sounds close to hackerspace/makerspace, but
with no (or lower) focus
on software part and greater on direct working with wood and
similar materials.

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dhackerspace

To clarify - not sure whatever describing it in this way is a good 
match, but maybe

it may be one of tags used to describe such object.

At least it would be a good idea how it differs from hackerspace if it 
is not one

(minimal focus on software and electronics?).


To me 'hackerspace' involves working with computers.

Mens sheds typically involve older tools without any computers, this 
keeps the cost down and, as they are older people, usually the users 
have knowledge of and skills to suit these older tools.


These were formed to provide social interaction of retired men using the 
'work' as an aid to get them involved.
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Mateusz Konieczny]

7 Oct 2019, 08:39 by matkoni...@tutanota.com:

> Based on images it sounds close to hackerspace/makerspace, but with no (or 
> lower) focus
> on software part and greater on direct working with wood and similar 
> materials.
>
> See > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dhackerspace 
> 
>
To clarify - not sure whatever describing it in this way is a good match, but 
maybe
it may be one of tags used to describe such object.

At least it would be a good idea how it differs from hackerspace if it is not 
one 
(minimal focus on software and electronics?).
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Jonathon Rossi]

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 4:14 PM Sam Wilson  wrote:

> I think amenity=community_centre makes sense, and I think there’s enough
> in Australia to warrant a specific community_centre=mens_shed (or maybe
> community_shed, which Wikipedia suggests as the generic term).
>
I think shed (sometimes) describes the building not that they do. How about
community_centre=workshop?

-- 
Jono
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Ewen Hill]

Please don't forget the Hen's shed or Hen House (Boyanup wa from memory).
They do all differ with some having lots of mechanical stuff (Forrest Wa)
to others which are more craft and sudoko in a house or annex or former
shire office. Exceddingly happy with community.shed as proposed

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, 5:15 PM Sam Wilson  wrote:

> I think amenity=community_centre makes sense, and I think there’s enough
> in Australia to warrant a specific community_centre=mens_shed (or maybe
> community_shed, which Wikipedia suggests as the generic term).
>
> On 7/10/19 1:57 pm, Warin wrote:
>
> On 07/10/19 16:52, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> Thanks fella's - thought I remembered seeing some mention of them!
>
>
> With only 2 expressing an opinion I am reluctant to put it on the wiki
> guide.
>
> What do you think Graeme? Anyone else?
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Jonathon Rossi]

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 3:53 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 14:23, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Existing;
>>
>> amenity=community_centre
>> community_centre:for=men
>> name=North Sydney Men's Shed
>>
>>
>
>> name=Parramatta District Men's Shed
>> office=charity
>>
>> building=yes
>> name=St George Men's Shed
>>
>> amenity=social_centre
>> name=Bankstown Men's Shed
>>
>
> Hmmm - of those, I think I prefer =social_centre?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dsocial_centre
>

The wiki has this:
> Differentiation
> Some forms of community centres might overlap with social facilities.
When the centre is open to general audiences (sometimes of a specific age
group or with specific interests), gathering for particular activities, it
should be tagged amenity=community_centre. When it addresses an audience
with specific problems, and/or is staffed with professional helpers (social
workers, nurses), amenity=social_facility would be preferred.
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre)

>From my initial thoughts and from that description amenity=community_centre
would be my pick. I think of men's sheds a bit like Scouts for youth, which
I'd also tag community_centre not social_centre.

Also the wiki has community_centre:for=m*a*n not community_centre:for=m*e*n
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:community_centre:for).
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Sam Wilson]

I think |amenity=community_centre| makes sense, and I think there’s 
enough in Australia to warrant a specific |community_centre=mens_shed| 
(or maybe |community_shed|, which Wikipedia suggests as the generic term).


On 7/10/19 1:57 pm, Warin wrote:


On 07/10/19 16:52, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

Thanks fella's - thought I remembered seeing some mention of them!


With only 2 expressing an opinion I am reluctant to put it on the wiki 
guide.


What do you think Graeme? Anyone else?


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​
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Warin]

On 07/10/19 16:52, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

Thanks fella's - thought I remembered seeing some mention of them!


With only 2 expressing an opinion I am reluctant to put it on the wiki 
guide.


What do you think Graeme? Anyone else?


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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks fella's - thought I remembered seeing some mention of them!

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 14:23, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Existing;
>
> amenity=community_centre
> community_centre:for=men
> name=North Sydney Men's Shed
>
>

> name=Parramatta District Men's Shed
> office=charity
>
> building=yes
> name=St George Men's Shed
>
> amenity=social_centre
> name=Bankstown Men's Shed
>

Hmmm - of those, I think I prefer =social_centre?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dsocial_centre

Community centre to me has always meant the actual hall / building, that is
available for various groups to hire / use, & I don't think office+charity
works either?

Possible new entry to the 'Australian Tagging Guidelines' once we come
> to some general concision?
>

That would be a good idea as well!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Warin]

On 07/10/19 14:18, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

As per the title, what do we call a Men's Shed?
https://mensshed.org/ in case any of our overseas followers don't know 
what we're talking about!


I'm guessing club=? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club but what?

Not really a community centre?

Maybe craft=?, possibly =handicraft?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Acraft%3Dhandicraft

Any thoughts?

Better link as to what Men's Sheds are about
https://mensshed.org/
https://menshed.com/

There is at least one Women's Shed too.

Existing;

node 5359849540
amenity=community_centre
community_centre:for=men
name=North Sydney Men's Shed
website=https://www.northsydney.nsw.gov.au/Community_Services/Aged_Access/Men39s_Shed

The building is mapped as a separate closed way, with this node in the 
middle of it. Don't think there is anything else inside the building.


The 'craft' can vary from shed to shed - some do woodwork ...
The council see them as a community service .. like a Library. Note I 
created this one, IIRC with some input from this list.
IIRC there was a person who had a problem mapping one as the members 
were concerned with possible enhanced theft possibilities.


others mapped in Syd area with name~Men's Shed

addr:housenumber=1
addr:postcode=2151
addr:state=NSW
addr:street=Fleet Street
addr:suburb=North Parramatta
name=Parramatta District Men's Shed
office=charity

building=yes
name=St George Men's Shed

amenity=social_centre
building=garage
capacity=50
name=Bankstown Men's Shed
phone=+61 2 9738 1147
website=https://www.bankstown.nsw.gov.au/index.aspx?NID=1152
wheelchair=yes

Possible new entry to the 'Australian Tagging Guidelines' once we come 
to some general concision?


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Re: [talk-au] Men's Shed?

[Andrew Davidson]

On 7/10/19 2:18 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

As per the title, what do we call a Men's Shed?


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2018-January/011639.html

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