Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 at 06:22, Joachim  wrote:

>
> @Graeme: You went for "Uluru / Ayers Rock", but I hope you can accept
> the majority's choice.
>

Not a problem!

Although I'll openly admit that whenever it comes up in conversation
amongst the family, it's *always* Ayers Rock :-)

  Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Joachim]

As the majority was for the "preferred  proposal" I just implemented
it. Thanks for your input!
@Graeme: You went for "Uluru / Ayers Rock", but I hope you can accept
the majority's choice.

Have nice day Joachim/Jojo4u

Am Mo., 28. Okt. 2019 um 19:39 Uhr schrieb Joachim :

> OSM has two features (notice the underlined r on some names which is
> native Pitjantjatjara):
> a) The peak (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2251425855)

> b) The "bare_rock" (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32639987/)

> My preferred proposal for both features:
> name = Uluṟu
> name:en = Uluru
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> alt_name = Ayers Rock
> alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
> official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock

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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Sebastian Spiess]

I support this too.

While I recall that it was Ayers Rock some time in the past in my bubble
it is no longer actively used.

On 29/10/19 12:00 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 11:08, Michael Gratton  > wrote:
>
> On Tue, 29 Oct, 2019 at 10:43, Adam Horan  > wrote:
> > I prefer the first proposal from Joachim:
> > name = Uluṟu
> > name:en = Uluru
> > name:pjt = Uluṟu
> > alt_name = Ayers Rock
> > alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
> > official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> > official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> >
> > I suggest putting 'Ayers Rock' in alt_name instead of old_name. If
> > you think about it Uluru *is* the old name... 
>
>
> Okay fair point! 
>
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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 11:08, Michael Gratton  wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct, 2019 at 10:43, Adam Horan  wrote:
> > I prefer the first proposal from Joachim:
> > name = Uluṟu
> > name:en = Uluru
> > name:pjt = Uluṟu
> > alt_name = Ayers Rock
> > alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
> > official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> > official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> >
> > I suggest putting 'Ayers Rock' in alt_name instead of old_name. If
> > you think about it Uluru *is* the old name... 
>

Okay fair point!
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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Michael Gratton]

On Tue, 29 Oct, 2019 at 10:43, Adam Horan  wrote:

I prefer the first proposal from Joachim:
name = Uluṟu
name:en = Uluru
name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name = Ayers Rock
alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock

I suggest putting 'Ayers Rock' in alt_name instead of old_name. If 
you think about it Uluru *is* the old name... 


Thirded!

--
⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
⚙ 



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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Adam Horan]

I prefer the first proposal from Joachim:
name = Uluṟu
name:en = Uluru
name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name = Ayers Rock
alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock

I suggest putting 'Ayers Rock' in alt_name instead of old_name. If you
think about it Uluru *is* the old name... 


Adam

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 09:55, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> Thanks for consulting the list for feedback before making the change, such
> a big change like this should be discussed first.
>
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 05:40, Joachim  wrote:
>
>> For the following proposals I added the English and Pitjantjatjara
>> explicitly because Uluru has some translated names.
>> My preferred proposal for both features:
>> name = Uluṟu
>> name:en = Uluru
>> name:pjt = Uluṟu
>> alt_name = Ayers Rock
>> alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
>> official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
>> official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
>>
>
> +1
>
> I'm also okay with either alt_name or old_name for "Ayers Rock", with a
> slight preference to "old_name".
>
>
>> Uluru seems to be generally seen as the preferred name nowadays in
>> Australia. I played a bit with Google Trends to see the extent
>> (
>> https://trends.google.de/trends/explore?date=all=AU=ayers%20rock,uluru
>> )
>> The official name is the dual name Uluru / Ayers Rock
>> (http://www.ntlis.nt.gov.au/placenames/view.jsp?id=10532)
>> The park is co-operated by Anangu and the Australian Government and
>> names it Uluru exclusively
>> (https://parksaustralia.gov.au/uluru/about/ayers-rock-or-uluru/)
>>
>
> I agree.
>
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 09:14, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> So, with such a mish-mash of underlined & non- names, my own preference
>> would be:
>>
>> name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
>> name:en = Uluru / Ayers Rock
>> name:pjt = Uluṟu
>> old_name = Ayers Rock
>> old_name:en = Ayers Rock
>>
>> if we need to specify name:en, if not, simply
>>
>> name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
>> name:pjt = Uluṟu
>> old_name = Ayers Rock
>>
>
> I'd prefer Joachim's proposal, I relegating Ayers Rock to as part of the
> official_name and either the old_name or alt_name. I believe most of the
> signage within the park uses the exclusive term "Uluru".
>
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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Warin]

On 29/10/19 09:53, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Thanks for consulting the list for feedback before making the change, 
such a big change like this should be discussed first.


On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 05:40, Joachim > wrote:


For the following proposals I added the English and Pitjantjatjara
explicitly because Uluru has some translated names.
My preferred proposal for both features:
name = Uluṟu
name:en = Uluru
name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name = Ayers Rock
alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock


+1

+1


I'm also okay with either alt_name or old_name for "Ayers Rock", with 
a slight preference to "old_name".


Some would argue that the true old name is Uluru. :)
I think alt_name is probably the better choice.


Uluru seems to be generally seen as the preferred name nowadays in
Australia. I played a bit with Google Trends to see the extent

(https://trends.google.de/trends/explore?date=all=AU=ayers%20rock,uluru)
The official name is the dual name Uluru / Ayers Rock
(http://www.ntlis.nt.gov.au/placenames/view.jsp?id=10532)
The park is co-operated by Anangu and the Australian Government and
names it Uluru exclusively
(https://parksaustralia.gov.au/uluru/about/ayers-rock-or-uluru/)


I agree.
Older ozies are more used to Ayers Rock... I still use it as I don't 
remember how to spell Uluru always and that is what I am used to.




On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 09:14, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


So, with such a mish-mash of underlined & non- names, my own
preference would be:

name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:en = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:pjt = Uluṟu
old_name = Ayers Rock
old_name:en = Ayers Rock

if we need to specify name:en, if not, simply

name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:pjt = Uluṟu
old_name = Ayers Rock


I'd prefer Joachim's proposal, I relegating Ayers Rock to as part of 
the official_name and either the old_name or alt_name. I believe most 
of the signage within the park uses the exclusive term "Uluru".




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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Andrew Harvey]

Thanks for consulting the list for feedback before making the change, such
a big change like this should be discussed first.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 05:40, Joachim  wrote:

> For the following proposals I added the English and Pitjantjatjara
> explicitly because Uluru has some translated names.
> My preferred proposal for both features:
> name = Uluṟu
> name:en = Uluru
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> alt_name = Ayers Rock
> alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
> official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
>

+1

I'm also okay with either alt_name or old_name for "Ayers Rock", with a
slight preference to "old_name".


> Uluru seems to be generally seen as the preferred name nowadays in
> Australia. I played a bit with Google Trends to see the extent
> (
> https://trends.google.de/trends/explore?date=all=AU=ayers%20rock,uluru
> )
> The official name is the dual name Uluru / Ayers Rock
> (http://www.ntlis.nt.gov.au/placenames/view.jsp?id=10532)
> The park is co-operated by Anangu and the Australian Government and
> names it Uluru exclusively
> (https://parksaustralia.gov.au/uluru/about/ayers-rock-or-uluru/)
>

I agree.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 09:14, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> So, with such a mish-mash of underlined & non- names, my own preference
> would be:
>
> name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
> name:en = Uluru / Ayers Rock
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> old_name = Ayers Rock
> old_name:en = Ayers Rock
>
> if we need to specify name:en, if not, simply
>
> name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> old_name = Ayers Rock
>

I'd prefer Joachim's proposal, I relegating Ayers Rock to as part of the
official_name and either the old_name or alt_name. I believe most of the
signage within the park uses the exclusive term "Uluru".
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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Again, thanks for your interest, Joachim! I had no idea that the story had
gone international.

Been doing some checking & it's a mess :-(

Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluru

*Uluru* (/ˌuːləˈruː/ ,
Pitjantjatjara :
*Uluṟu* /ˈʊ.lʊ.ɻʊ/), also known as *Ayers Rock* (/ˌɛərz -/
, like *airs*) and
officially gazetted  as *Uluru /
Ayers Rock*,

the Pitjantjatjara  people,
call the landmark *Uluṟu* (Pitjantjatjara [ʊlʊɻʊ]
) ... although
it is used as a local family name by the senior Traditional Owners of Uluru.


In 1993, a dual naming  policy
was adopted that allowed official names that consist of both the
traditional Aboriginal name and the English name. On 15 December 1993, it
was renamed "Ayers Rock / Uluru" and became the first official dual-named
feature in the Northern Territory. The order of the dual names was
officially reversed to "Uluru / Ayers Rock" on 6 November 2002

The article also makes reference to the UNESCO World Heritage listing
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/447

Ulu*r*u-Kata Tju*t*a National Park
This park, formerly called Uluru (Ayers Rock – Mount Olga) National Park,
features spectacular geological formations that dominate the vast red sandy
plain of central Australia. Uluru, an immense monolith, and Kata Tjuta,

& the directional road sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-25.1984958,133.2018359,3a,15y,139.71h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wF9qFh1z43RCsnapBsV1Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So, with such a mish-mash of underlined & non- names, my own preference
would be:

name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:en = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:pjt = Uluṟu
old_name = Ayers Rock
old_name:en = Ayers Rock

if we need to specify name:en, if not, simply

name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:pjt = Uluṟu
old_name = Ayers Rock

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Ewen Hill]

Hi Joachim,
   Thank you for your interest and your detailed proposals and analysis. As
the custodians of the land wish others to only use Uluru however the
official names are Uluru / Ayers Rock since 2002, I believe that your first
proposal covers all bases.








*My preferred proposal for both features:name = Uluṟuname:en =
Uluruname:pjt = Uluṟualt_name = Ayers Rockalt_name:en = Ayers
Rockofficial_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rockofficial_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers
Rock*

On Tue, 29 Oct 2019, 5:40 AM Joachim  wrote:

> Hello Aussies,
>
> the closing of the Uluru Climb gathered international news. So I had a
> look at Uluru and saw some naming inconsistencies which might be
> improved. I found no prior discussion about it and the features in OSM
> have stable naming since 2015, so this seems to be a topic worth a
> look.
>
> OSM has two features (notice the underlined r on some names which is
> native Pitjantjatjara):
> a) The peak (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2251425855)
> name = Uluṟu
> name:en = Uluru (Ayers Rock)
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> alt_name = Uluru
>
> b) The "bare_rock" (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32639987/)
> name = Uluṟu (Ayers Rock)
> name:en = Uluru (Ayers Rock)
> name:pjt= Uluṟu
>
> Two issues:
> 1. Name is inconsistent between the two
> 2. The Ayers Rock in parenthesis looks more like description than a name
>
> For the following proposals I added the English and Pitjantjatjara
> explicitly because Uluru has some translated names.
> My preferred proposal for both features:
> name = Uluṟu
> name:en = Uluru
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> alt_name = Ayers Rock
> alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
> official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
> official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
>
> Alternative proposal for both:
> name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
> name:en = Uluru / Ayers Rock
> name:pjt = Uluṟu
> alt_name = Uluṟu
> alt_name:pjt = Uluṟu
> alt_name:en = Uluru
> old_name = Ayers Rock
> old_name:en = Ayers Rock
>
> Some points to consider:
> Uluru seems to be generally seen as the preferred name nowadays in
> Australia. I played a bit with Google Trends to see the extent
> (
> https://trends.google.de/trends/explore?date=all=AU=ayers%20rock,uluru
> )
> The official name is the dual name Uluru / Ayers Rock
> (http://www.ntlis.nt.gov.au/placenames/view.jsp?id=10532)
> The park is co-operated by Anangu and the Australian Government and
> names it Uluru exclusively
> (https://parksaustralia.gov.au/uluru/about/ayers-rock-or-uluru/)
>
> Best regards Joachim/Jojo4u from Germany
>
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[talk-au] Uluru naming consistency

[Joachim]

Hello Aussies,

the closing of the Uluru Climb gathered international news. So I had a
look at Uluru and saw some naming inconsistencies which might be
improved. I found no prior discussion about it and the features in OSM
have stable naming since 2015, so this seems to be a topic worth a
look.

OSM has two features (notice the underlined r on some names which is
native Pitjantjatjara):
a) The peak (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2251425855)
name = Uluṟu
name:en = Uluru (Ayers Rock)
name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name = Uluru

b) The "bare_rock" (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32639987/)
name = Uluṟu (Ayers Rock)
name:en = Uluru (Ayers Rock)
name:pjt= Uluṟu

Two issues:
1. Name is inconsistent between the two
2. The Ayers Rock in parenthesis looks more like description than a name

For the following proposals I added the English and Pitjantjatjara
explicitly because Uluru has some translated names.
My preferred proposal for both features:
name = Uluṟu
name:en = Uluru
name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name = Ayers Rock
alt_name:en = Ayers Rock
official_name =  Uluru / Ayers Rock
official_name:en =  Uluru / Ayers Rock

Alternative proposal for both:
name = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:en = Uluru / Ayers Rock
name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name = Uluṟu
alt_name:pjt = Uluṟu
alt_name:en = Uluru
old_name = Ayers Rock
old_name:en = Ayers Rock

Some points to consider:
Uluru seems to be generally seen as the preferred name nowadays in
Australia. I played a bit with Google Trends to see the extent
(https://trends.google.de/trends/explore?date=all=AU=ayers%20rock,uluru)
The official name is the dual name Uluru / Ayers Rock
(http://www.ntlis.nt.gov.au/placenames/view.jsp?id=10532)
The park is co-operated by Anangu and the Australian Government and
names it Uluru exclusively
(https://parksaustralia.gov.au/uluru/about/ayers-rock-or-uluru/)

Best regards Joachim/Jojo4u from Germany

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