Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Marc Gemis]

I sincerely hope that the import is done properly, while keeping the
existing tagging. I know this is the intention of the people behind
the import, and can only hope that the participants will honor this
methodology.
I just noticed that a mapper has been removing old hand drawn
buildings with improved versions based on GRB, but as a first step he
just deleted all old buildings, without looking at additional tags.
Those are now gone. I wonder how many data he has removed in this
process.

Arrggghhh

regards

m

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 4:22 PM, joost schouppe
 wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm pimarily involved to try and make sure the unevitable import is done
>> properly.
>>
>> Anyway, in my opinion procedures, limited access, checks and training can
>> reduce the risk of something going terribly wrong. Will that prevent all
>> possible mistakes, no, but not thinking about how to do this is worse. We
>> can't prevent people from doing this on their own anyway...
>>
> My feelings exactly: on the one hand we want to do the import as good as
> possible. On the other hand we can't be too perfectionist, because people
> are already starting their own tracing and wild importing. If we go too
> slow, we'll wind up with having to do big reverts or just massive low
> quality data. GRB has its issues, but the quality is definitely comparable
> to what the general mapper does. Not as good as Marc of course, but if that
> were a criterium, I for one should have never started mapping at all.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[joost schouppe]

> I'm pimarily involved to try and make sure the unevitable import is done
> properly.
>
> Anyway, in my opinion procedures, limited access, checks and training can
> reduce the risk of something going terribly wrong. Will that prevent all
> possible mistakes, no, but not thinking about how to do this is worse. We
> can't prevent people from doing this on their own anyway...
>
> My feelings exactly: on the one hand we want to do the import as good as
possible. On the other hand we can't be too perfectionist, because people
are already starting their own tracing and wild importing. If we go too
slow, we'll wind up with having to do big reverts or just massive low
quality data. GRB has its issues, but the quality is definitely comparable
to what the general mapper does. Not as good as Marc of course, but if that
were a criterium, I for one should have never started mapping at all.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Ben Abelshausen]

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> You do not have this problem when you have to draw each house
> yourself, (although in the end you might be just drawing squares
> instead of detailed houses.)
>

I completely agree with you, I'm not even sure if we should do an import.
For me it would be enough to just trace from imagery and perhaps in dense
cities from GRB but I don't think the majority of people agrees...

I'm pimarily involved to try and make sure the unevitable import is done
properly.

Anyway, in my opinion procedures, limited access, checks and training can
reduce the risk of something going terribly wrong. Will that prevent all
possible mistakes, no, but not thinking about how to do this is worse. We
can't prevent people from doing this on their own anyway...

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Marc Gemis]

It's just pretty tempting to start increasing the amount of data one
uploads and to stop verifying data thoroughly, especially if you
haven't found problems for awhile. This has nothing to do with
procedures, tools, etc.

You do not have this problem when you have to draw each house
yourself, (although in the end you might be just drawing squares
instead of detailed houses.)

m

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Ben Abelshausen
 wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Jo  wrote:
>>
>> Maybe we should also foresee procedures for cases where it's obvious
>> people take the data and just 'run with it'? If needed we shouldn't hesitate
>> to revert changesets. Who's going to follow up on that though? reverts
>> should ideally happen as quickly as possible.
>
>
> Didn't we agree we would only allow a limited number of people access to the
> tool and the converted data? To prevent exactly this kind of thing from
> happening...
>
> If I remember correctly the requirement was to make your OSM username known
> and follow at least a google hangout session about the procedure to follow.
> So a minimum requirement would be to have had contact in person or via
> hangout with one of us?
>
> That being said, I agree we should not be afraid to revert changesets with
> improperly imported data.
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
>
> Ben Abelshausen
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Ben Abelshausen]

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Jo  wrote:

> Maybe we should also foresee procedures for cases where it's obvious
> people take the data and just 'run with it'? If needed we shouldn't
> hesitate to revert changesets. Who's going to follow up on that though?
> reverts should ideally happen as quickly as possible.


Didn't we agree we would only allow a limited number of people access to
the tool and the converted data? To prevent exactly this kind of thing from
happening...

If I remember correctly the requirement was to make your OSM username known
and follow at least a google hangout session about the procedure to follow.
So a minimum requirement would be to have had contact in person or via
hangout with one of us?

That being said, I agree we should not be afraid to revert changesets with
improperly imported data.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Marc Gemis]

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Jo  wrote:
> About landuse that attaches to other landuse or buildings. JOSM has a tool
> to nicely stitch those together. It's in the contourmerge plugin.

I used that a lot. Very nice plugin.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Jo]

It wouldn't make sense for anybody to put a deadline on it. It's important
to communicate this to the 'integrators' though, that's the point I was
trying to make. I definitely didn't stress on it enough, when I prepared
the data for UrbIS.

Maybe we should also foresee procedures for cases where it's obvious people
take the data and just 'run with it'? If needed we shouldn't hesitate to
revert changesets. Who's going to follow up on that though? reverts should
ideally happen as quickly as possible.

About landuse that attaches to other landuse or buildings. JOSM has a tool
to nicely stitch those together. It's in the contourmerge plugin.

Jo

2016-12-15 11:38 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :

> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 8:59 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> >> A model import does not introduce errors that could be avoided by
> >> simply looking at aerial imagery
> >
> > Does, or does not ?
>
> I break the silence, just because you asked a question :-)
>
> every building imported via a model import should be checked
> individually. If you see that the aerial imagery does not show the
> building, look at a third source. Depending on the age of the sources
> take action.
> I have seen buildings that were destroyed, but visible on the
> grootschalige aerial images and GRB, but not in the field or on the
> kleinschalige aerial images. So you do not do an import then.
> Ideally, every building that you add is validated by the mapper. This
> is a slow process.
>
>
> Some of the problems I encountered during the church improvements
> - sub area of the church was marked as tower. This sub area add to be
> adapted to the new floorplan. 3D information will give the same
> problem.
> - almost every grave yard add to be added to nicely fit against the
> wall of the church. Maybe this problem is unique for churches as other
> buildings do not have landuse attached to it ?
> - in some cases you have to move paths as they would otherwise lead
> through the church. Also occurs for footpaths between 2 buildings.
>
> Other problems
> - addresses that do not match, the geometry merge plugin is not really
> helpful to see which address comes from GRB and which one was in OSM.
> - replacing multipolygons with individual buildings and somehow
> keeping the history.
> - Take a look at https://xian.smugmug.com/OSM/Screenshots/AGIV-Problems/
>
> so there are a lot of things to check while you add the data, all of
> them will slow you down during the import.
>
> @Jo, I am glad you do not put a deadline on it. Thanks !
>
> regards
>
> m
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Jo]

I think it's important to stress (several times across the documentation)
that there is no rush. If it takes 10 years to do it right, so be it. It's
not a problem that the data isn't in there by next year.
What we should aim for is people who survey and who then use the data as a
complement to what they saw in the field (and ideally made pictures of).

Jo


2016-12-15 8:59 GMT+01:00 Glenn Plas :

> On 15-12-16 05:44, Marc Gemis wrote:
> > I'm really looking forward to read the procedure on how you guys came up.
> > You might have been lucky that I couldn't make it , now you only have
> > to ignore my annoying mails :-)
>
> No, not at all.  The church-issue was brought up without your help :)
>
> > I fail to see how documentation will prevent any participant from just
> > dumping the data from GRB into OSM without any check what so ever. The
> > same happened in The Netherlands where destroyed buildings were still
> > imported and not-yet existing house numbers where dumped in the dunes.
>
> The rule is you need to use the plugin to merge geometries, like this no
> history will be deleted , hence you can roll those back.  But we aggree
> you need some kind of formal training before getting unleashed on the
> data.  So we will give workshops etc, possibly hangouts.
>
> > A model import does not introduce errors that could be avoided by
> > simply looking at aerial imagery
>
> Does, or does not ?
>
> >
> > I've been working almost daily with the GRB data now for 6 months (*)
> > or so and have a pretty good idea how much work it takes to make this
> > a model import. I fail to see how 20-25 people can accomplish this is
> > a year, unless they really spend a lot of hours on it.
>
> I did Stekene and surroundings in a month (pretty large part in fact).
> It goes really fast when there are no houses yet, where buildings exist
> it will go a bit slower.   But it's not an import, the end result needs
> to be better than OSM and GRB seperately, it will be if we do it right.
>
> > But I am probably to critical right now and have to see what process /
> > documentation you guys came up with.
> >
> > so I shut up now and wait
>
> Think I asked for feedback on plenty of occasions, consider your job is
> well done and I prefer an early critic over a late one :)
>
> Glenn
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Glenn Plas]

On 15-12-16 05:44, Marc Gemis wrote:
> I'm really looking forward to read the procedure on how you guys came up.
> You might have been lucky that I couldn't make it , now you only have
> to ignore my annoying mails :-)

No, not at all.  The church-issue was brought up without your help :)

> I fail to see how documentation will prevent any participant from just
> dumping the data from GRB into OSM without any check what so ever. The
> same happened in The Netherlands where destroyed buildings were still
> imported and not-yet existing house numbers where dumped in the dunes.

The rule is you need to use the plugin to merge geometries, like this no
history will be deleted , hence you can roll those back.  But we aggree
you need some kind of formal training before getting unleashed on the
data.  So we will give workshops etc, possibly hangouts.

> A model import does not introduce errors that could be avoided by
> simply looking at aerial imagery

Does, or does not ?

> 
> I've been working almost daily with the GRB data now for 6 months (*)
> or so and have a pretty good idea how much work it takes to make this
> a model import. I fail to see how 20-25 people can accomplish this is
> a year, unless they really spend a lot of hours on it.

I did Stekene and surroundings in a month (pretty large part in fact).
It goes really fast when there are no houses yet, where buildings exist
it will go a bit slower.   But it's not an import, the end result needs
to be better than OSM and GRB seperately, it will be if we do it right.

> But I am probably to critical right now and have to see what process /
> documentation you guys came up with.
> 
> so I shut up now and wait

Think I asked for feedback on plenty of occasions, consider your job is
well done and I prefer an early critic over a late one :)

Glenn



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Marc Gemis]

I'm really looking forward to read the procedure on how you guys came up.
You might have been lucky that I couldn't make it , now you only have
to ignore my annoying mails :-)

I fail to see how documentation will prevent any participant from just
dumping the data from GRB into OSM without any check what so ever. The
same happened in The Netherlands where destroyed buildings were still
imported and not-yet existing house numbers where dumped in the dunes.
A model import does not introduce errors that could be avoided by
simply looking at aerial imagery

I've been working almost daily with the GRB data now for 6 months (*)
or so and have a pretty good idea how much work it takes to make this
a model import. I fail to see how 20-25 people can accomplish this is
a year, unless they really spend a lot of hours on it.

But I am probably to critical right now and have to see what process /
documentation you guys came up with.

so I shut up now and wait

regards

m

(*) I did add new data to complement my surveys (super easy), as well
as update existing data in my neighborhood and on many churches
(sometimes very hard to do). Keeping the history and data of a
building, keeping nodes attached to existing buildings (entrances or
maiboxes), existing, but differently split-up of the buildings  will
all slow you down, because each time you have to think how you have to
solve that problem. Not to mention landuses, amenities, etc that are
attached to the buildings and have to be redrawn. Without doing all of
this, no model import.


On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> On 14-12-16 20:55, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:49 AM, joost schouppe
>>  wrote:
>>> Expect between 10 and 20 users for the import tool. I think we can handle a
>>> little ugliness.
>>> So something "not too bad" will do :)
>>>
>>> That said, if it all goes as planned, we will be doing a "model import". So
>>> I think the work on
>>
>> A model import of this size and data quality with only 10-20 users ?
>> You must be kidding :-)
>
> Sure, I would to it alone in 6Months in madness mass-mode approach.  In
> Escada approach with eye for detail and survey  information it would
> take a lot but there is not due date planned.  It's not an import, its a
> merge tool.
>
>> Without involvement of really local mappers (1 per village), it is
>> IMHO impossible to bring the GRB data up to  level that is needed for
>> a "model import".
>>
>> As you might know, everything with an address is categorized as house,
>> everything without as shed.  While this is a choice that Glenn made,
>> there are only 2 categories you can start from. There are also roofs
>> and some buildings are known as industrial (substations for
>> electricity), but that does not help with the issue.
>
> It's not a choice by me, it's a source data driven decision , you can't
> make up 5 categories when the source is only 2 big.  But we actually
> discussed what we will do with those cases and explained why it is what
> it is.  There are plenty of solutions for these cases but since it's a
> merge tool you're discussion a well balanced/chosen default based on the
> source data, we can/will modify that a bit, there are a few new ideas
> now since sunday. But all in all, this is a default, you get the merge
> windows which is basically what a mapper does: make informed decisions
> with a certain amount of local knowledge.
>
>
>>
>> So even churches are marked as shed. While this type of correction is
>> easy, it might easily be skipped (see Urbis import). However, try to
>> recognize apartments, retail vs. commercial, warehouse vs. industrial,
>> shed vs. garage (next to house), civic, barns vs. stables vs
>> farm_auxilairy etc. buildings based on aerial imagery.
>
> Yes, again, we have discussed this and we have a solution for this, this
> hackaton was exactly for bringing this up, you are a power user but you
> missed the meeting unfortunately, it happens but now I feel like again
> we need to discuss this, we are aware of the issues but we have brained
> together solutions for this.
>
>>
>> Unless many, many more mappers get involved in the process, this will
>> not be a model import in my eyes, simply because too many buildings
>> that are not house/shed will be mapped as such.
>
> 20 mappers you can do Belgium in a single year.  Not every mapper is
> going to work as detailed as you , but for GRB we need it to be done well.
>
>
>>
>> BTW, this has nothing to do with the import tool, which even in it's
>> current version is good to support local mappers. The main benefit is
>> that you do not have to draw the buildings yourself or add the
>> addresses. That's already done, changing the building type based on
>> ones observations is easy.
>>
>> So I really hope that the people involved in the import realize that
>> improving the data before uploading is much more important that having
>> an exact copy of GRB data 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Glenn Plas]

On 14-12-16 20:55, Marc Gemis wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:49 AM, joost schouppe
>  wrote:
>> Expect between 10 and 20 users for the import tool. I think we can handle a
>> little ugliness.
>> So something "not too bad" will do :)
>>
>> That said, if it all goes as planned, we will be doing a "model import". So
>> I think the work on
> 
> A model import of this size and data quality with only 10-20 users ?
> You must be kidding :-)

Sure, I would to it alone in 6Months in madness mass-mode approach.  In
Escada approach with eye for detail and survey  information it would
take a lot but there is not due date planned.  It's not an import, its a
merge tool.

> Without involvement of really local mappers (1 per village), it is
> IMHO impossible to bring the GRB data up to  level that is needed for
> a "model import".
> 
> As you might know, everything with an address is categorized as house,
> everything without as shed.  While this is a choice that Glenn made,
> there are only 2 categories you can start from. There are also roofs
> and some buildings are known as industrial (substations for
> electricity), but that does not help with the issue.

It's not a choice by me, it's a source data driven decision , you can't
make up 5 categories when the source is only 2 big.  But we actually
discussed what we will do with those cases and explained why it is what
it is.  There are plenty of solutions for these cases but since it's a
merge tool you're discussion a well balanced/chosen default based on the
source data, we can/will modify that a bit, there are a few new ideas
now since sunday. But all in all, this is a default, you get the merge
windows which is basically what a mapper does: make informed decisions
with a certain amount of local knowledge.


> 
> So even churches are marked as shed. While this type of correction is
> easy, it might easily be skipped (see Urbis import). However, try to
> recognize apartments, retail vs. commercial, warehouse vs. industrial,
> shed vs. garage (next to house), civic, barns vs. stables vs
> farm_auxilairy etc. buildings based on aerial imagery.

Yes, again, we have discussed this and we have a solution for this, this
hackaton was exactly for bringing this up, you are a power user but you
missed the meeting unfortunately, it happens but now I feel like again
we need to discuss this, we are aware of the issues but we have brained
together solutions for this.

> 
> Unless many, many more mappers get involved in the process, this will
> not be a model import in my eyes, simply because too many buildings
> that are not house/shed will be mapped as such.

20 mappers you can do Belgium in a single year.  Not every mapper is
going to work as detailed as you , but for GRB we need it to be done well.


> 
> BTW, this has nothing to do with the import tool, which even in it's
> current version is good to support local mappers. The main benefit is
> that you do not have to draw the buildings yourself or add the
> addresses. That's already done, changing the building type based on
> ones observations is easy.
> 
> So I really hope that the people involved in the import realize that
> improving the data before uploading is much more important that having
> an exact copy of GRB data in OSM.


Yea, I really missed you there Marc,  you would have been an asset.  You
have good input but missed the party this time.  We know it's not easy
to make it sometimes but give us some time to document things and then
give your feedback again on those solutions.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Marc Gemis]

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:49 AM, joost schouppe
 wrote:
> Expect between 10 and 20 users for the import tool. I think we can handle a
> little ugliness.
> So something "not too bad" will do :)
>
> That said, if it all goes as planned, we will be doing a "model import". So
> I think the work on

A model import of this size and data quality with only 10-20 users ?
You must be kidding :-)
Without involvement of really local mappers (1 per village), it is
IMHO impossible to bring the GRB data up to  level that is needed for
a "model import".

As you might know, everything with an address is categorized as house,
everything without as shed.  While this is a choice that Glenn made,
there are only 2 categories you can start from. There are also roofs
and some buildings are known as industrial (substations for
electricity), but that does not help with the issue.

So even churches are marked as shed. While this type of correction is
easy, it might easily be skipped (see Urbis import). However, try to
recognize apartments, retail vs. commercial, warehouse vs. industrial,
shed vs. garage (next to house), civic, barns vs. stables vs
farm_auxilairy etc. buildings based on aerial imagery.

Unless many, many more mappers get involved in the process, this will
not be a model import in my eyes, simply because too many buildings
that are not house/shed will be mapped as such.

BTW, this has nothing to do with the import tool, which even in it's
current version is good to support local mappers. The main benefit is
that you do not have to draw the buildings yourself or add the
addresses. That's already done, changing the building type based on
ones observations is easy.

So I really hope that the people involved in the import realize that
improving the data before uploading is much more important that having
an exact copy of GRB data in OSM.

regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[joost schouppe]

The blog post is ready for translation:

https://hackpad.com/Hackday-b5rCQLrvmXC

Especially on the French version we could use some help!
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[joost schouppe]

> I'm not good at art stuff and I'm definitely not a designer but I'm sure
we can manage to do something good (or not too bad) anyway.
> Any designer available in OpenStreetMap crew ?

Expect between 10 and 20 users for the import tool. I think we can handle a
little ugliness.
So something "not too bad" will do :)

That said, if it all goes as planned, we will be doing a "model import". So
I think the work on tools and documentation isn't just for us, but maybe
for many more imports to come.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Jonathan Beliën]

Haha,

Awesome ! Let's make a LEGO version of OSM \o/
But I think I'm disgressing from the current topic...

I'm not good at art stuff and I'm definitely not a designer but I'm sure we
can manage to do something good (or not too bad) anyway.
Any designer available in OpenStreetMap crew ?


Jonathan

Le mar. 13 déc. 2016 à 17:18, Glenn Plas <gl...@byte-consult.be> a écrit :

> Hey Jonathan,
>
> On 13-12-16 17:05, Jonathan Beliën wrote:
> > Hi Glenn,
> >
> > We didn't really discuss about that last Sunday but I'll be happy to
> help with PHP/JAVASCRIPT/HTML/CSS !
>
> Thanks Jonathan, we seem to share a lot of interests (*) ;-)
>
> I didn't really yell for help on Sunday, probably should have.  I will
> send you the details asap and where I'm at.  It would be awesome to not
> have to worry about GUI stuff, I'm not a artistic person, I'm visually
> challenged in CSS.
>
> Glenn
>
> * : http://bricks.stackexchange.com/users/1122/glenn-plas
>
> >
> > Good afternoon.
> >
> > Jonathan Beliën
> >
> > -Message d'origine-
> > De : Glenn Plas [mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be]
> > Envoyé : mardi 13 décembre 2016 16:44
> > À : OpenStreetMap Belgium
> > Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th
> >
> > On 13-12-16 14:18, Santens Seppe wrote:
> >> Looking forward to it!
> >>
> >> I had a quick look at the documentation and tried the tools, but I
> >> don’t feel confident enough to have a go at it. A short training would
> be nice.
> >
> > The tool will also be updated before we start, since it's a R version
> right now.  A v2 version is on the way, the source code is public too.
> > It will be a lot more user-friendly, less-nerdy.  I'm about halfway
> through merging functionalities.
> >
> > We will organise workshops to get everyone aligned.  The meeting was
> quite productive and rather fast as well.  We have a main strategy and 2
> backup strategies to get this proposal accepted.
> >
> > Looking at my schedule, it will probably be ready mid januari but I'm
> swamped in paid work so this target is optimistic.  with all the festivit
> >
> > If anyone who knows some php/javascript/css (or even the Laravel
> > framework) and you want to help, please contact me and I will get the
> ball rolling.  I could use a CSS expert to assist me in making it pretty
> and functional on the GUI side.
> >
> > Thanks for the patience and also thanks for showing restraint in
> importing data when you are not sure, it's an excellent decision in the
> context and timing of this project.
> >
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Seppe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Van:*Ben Abelshausen [mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com]
> >> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 13 december 2016 14:10 *Aan:*OpenStreetMap
> >> Belgium
> >> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are working on a blogpost... :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Ben Abelshausen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >> m
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org>
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Glenn Plas]

Hey Jonathan,

On 13-12-16 17:05, Jonathan Beliën wrote:
> Hi Glenn,
> 
> We didn't really discuss about that last Sunday but I'll be happy to help 
> with PHP/JAVASCRIPT/HTML/CSS !

Thanks Jonathan, we seem to share a lot of interests (*) ;-)

I didn't really yell for help on Sunday, probably should have.  I will
send you the details asap and where I'm at.  It would be awesome to not
have to worry about GUI stuff, I'm not a artistic person, I'm visually
challenged in CSS.

Glenn

* : http://bricks.stackexchange.com/users/1122/glenn-plas

> 
> Good afternoon.
> 
> Jonathan Beliën
> 
> -Message d'origine-
> De : Glenn Plas [mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be] 
> Envoyé : mardi 13 décembre 2016 16:44
> À : OpenStreetMap Belgium
> Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th
> 
> On 13-12-16 14:18, Santens Seppe wrote:
>> Looking forward to it!
>>
>> I had a quick look at the documentation and tried the tools, but I 
>> don’t feel confident enough to have a go at it. A short training would be 
>> nice.
> 
> The tool will also be updated before we start, since it's a R version right 
> now.  A v2 version is on the way, the source code is public too.
> It will be a lot more user-friendly, less-nerdy.  I'm about halfway through 
> merging functionalities.
> 
> We will organise workshops to get everyone aligned.  The meeting was quite 
> productive and rather fast as well.  We have a main strategy and 2 backup 
> strategies to get this proposal accepted.
> 
> Looking at my schedule, it will probably be ready mid januari but I'm swamped 
> in paid work so this target is optimistic.  with all the festivit
> 
> If anyone who knows some php/javascript/css (or even the Laravel
> framework) and you want to help, please contact me and I will get the ball 
> rolling.  I could use a CSS expert to assist me in making it pretty and 
> functional on the GUI side.
> 
> Thanks for the patience and also thanks for showing restraint in importing 
> data when you are not sure, it's an excellent decision in the context and 
> timing of this project.
> 
> 
> Glenn
> 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Seppe
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Van:*Ben Abelshausen [mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com]
>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 13 december 2016 14:10 *Aan:*OpenStreetMap 
>> Belgium
>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th
>>
>>  
>>
>> We are working on a blogpost... :-)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ben Abelshausen
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?
>>
>> regards
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
> 
> 
> ___
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> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Jonathan Beliën]

Hi Glenn,

We didn't really discuss about that last Sunday but I'll be happy to help with 
PHP/JAVASCRIPT/HTML/CSS !

Good afternoon.

Jonathan Beliën

-Message d'origine-
De : Glenn Plas [mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be] 
Envoyé : mardi 13 décembre 2016 16:44
À : OpenStreetMap Belgium
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

On 13-12-16 14:18, Santens Seppe wrote:
> Looking forward to it!
> 
> I had a quick look at the documentation and tried the tools, but I 
> don’t feel confident enough to have a go at it. A short training would be 
> nice.

The tool will also be updated before we start, since it's a R version right 
now.  A v2 version is on the way, the source code is public too.
It will be a lot more user-friendly, less-nerdy.  I'm about halfway through 
merging functionalities.

We will organise workshops to get everyone aligned.  The meeting was quite 
productive and rather fast as well.  We have a main strategy and 2 backup 
strategies to get this proposal accepted.

Looking at my schedule, it will probably be ready mid januari but I'm swamped 
in paid work so this target is optimistic.  with all the festivit

If anyone who knows some php/javascript/css (or even the Laravel
framework) and you want to help, please contact me and I will get the ball 
rolling.  I could use a CSS expert to assist me in making it pretty and 
functional on the GUI side.

Thanks for the patience and also thanks for showing restraint in importing data 
when you are not sure, it's an excellent decision in the context and timing of 
this project.


Glenn

> 
>  
> 
> Seppe
> 
>  
> 
> *Van:*Ben Abelshausen [mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com]
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 13 december 2016 14:10 *Aan:*OpenStreetMap 
> Belgium
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th
> 
>  
> 
> We are working on a blogpost... :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
> 
> Ben Abelshausen
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?
> 
> regards
> 
> m
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Glenn Plas]

On 13-12-16 14:18, Santens Seppe wrote:
> Looking forward to it!
> 
> I had a quick look at the documentation and tried the tools, but I don’t
> feel confident enough to have a go at it. A short training would be nice.

The tool will also be updated before we start, since it's a R version
right now.  A v2 version is on the way, the source code is public too.
It will be a lot more user-friendly, less-nerdy.  I'm about halfway
through merging functionalities.

We will organise workshops to get everyone aligned.  The meeting was
quite productive and rather fast as well.  We have a main strategy and 2
backup strategies to get this proposal accepted.

Looking at my schedule, it will probably be ready mid januari but I'm
swamped in paid work so this target is optimistic.  with all the festivit

If anyone who knows some php/javascript/css (or even the Laravel
framework) and you want to help, please contact me and I will get the
ball rolling.  I could use a CSS expert to assist me in making it pretty
and functional on the GUI side.

Thanks for the patience and also thanks for showing restraint in
importing data when you are not sure, it's an excellent decision in the
context and timing of this project.


Glenn

> 
>  
> 
> Seppe
> 
>  
> 
> *Van:*Ben Abelshausen [mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com]
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 13 december 2016 14:10
> *Aan:*OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th
> 
>  
> 
> We are working on a blogpost... :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
> 
> Ben Abelshausen
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com
> <mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?
> 
> regards
> 
> m
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[joost schouppe]

We're not quite there yet, Seppe. There will definitely be training
sessions once we have a go from the imports mailing list.

If you can't wait for the blog post, here's the pad we used for live
reporting: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/grbhackaton
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Santens Seppe]

Looking forward to it!
I had a quick look at the documentation and tried the tools, but I don’t feel 
confident enough to have a go at it. A short training would be nice.

Seppe

Van: Ben Abelshausen [mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 13 december 2016 14:10
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

We are working on a blogpost... :-)

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Marc Gemis 
<marc.ge...@gmail.com<mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?

regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Ben Abelshausen]

We are working on a blogpost... :-)

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?
>
> regards
>
> m
>
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Marc Gemis]

Any chance we see a list of accomplishments somewhere ?

regards

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[joost schouppe]

So thanking people personally is always a bad idea, because you always
forget someone (especially if you're a half-brain like me). I forgot to
mention Dries Van Ransbeeck, the new Pieter-Jan at the Open Knowledge
Foundation, who went out of his way to try and help us find a location!
Thanks, and sorry!.

2016-12-06 17:21 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :

> Hi,
>
> So 15 minutes after I shared the good news that we had a location for the
> GRB Hackday this Sunday, the location cancelled.
>
> But we finally found another place. We will have the Transforma BXL [1]
> coworking space all to ourselves, thanks to the kind sponsoring they have
> offered us. I think it's an absolutely ideal place to work.
>
> The only downside is that the nearby trainstation of Bordet doesn't have
> trains in the weekend. So the most convenient way to get there, might
> actually be to take a Villo. That's actually quite simple, you can do it
> with a regular bank card. Or from Brussel Noord, take tram 55 to Da Vinci.
> Here's a little map to help you find the way [2].
>
> We can use the place the whole day, for as long as we want. I'll open the
> doors at 10 a.m. and hope not to be alone for too long :)
>
> You can bring your own lunch, but we'll try to order some food and might
> actually get a sponsor for that too.
>
> [1]: https://www.transformabxl.be/
> [2]: http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/nl/map/hackaton-location_115774#15/
> 50.8671/4.3894
>
> P.S. thanks Jorieke for the golden tip; and thanks to Karel, Jonathan,
> Marc D, Marc B and Yannick for your help scouting a location.
> Next time, not on a Sunday :)
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap  |
> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
>



-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GRB hackday december 11th

[Ben Laenen]

On Tuesday 06 December 2016 17:21:24 joost schouppe wrote:
> The only downside is that the nearby trainstation of Bordet doesn't have
> trains in the weekend. So the most convenient way to get there, might
> actually be to take a Villo. That's actually quite simple, you can do it
> with a regular bank card. Or from Brussel Noord, take tram 55 to Da Vinci.
> Here's a little map to help you find the way [2].

On December 11 Bordet will get trains in the weekend again. It's not a 
convenient connection for those coming from the main Brussels railway stations 
(it's an hourly connection between Braine-L'Alleud and Leuven), but if you're 
coming from Leuven, then the train is certainly an option.

Ben


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