Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 109, Issue 13

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Kevin and Denis, and others, 

Thank you all for the amazing answers to my question. 

It all makes sense. Later we could talk about writing up an approach to get 
there iteratively, I think we all agree it is needed at some point.


Bjenk

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: March-07-17 1:52 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 109, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Municipal boundaries (kevinfarrugia)
   2. Re: Municipal boundaries (Denis Carriere)
   3. Re: Municipal boundaries (Adam Martin)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2017 13:38:00 -0500
From: kevinfarrugia 
To: "J.P. Kirby" , James 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Municipal boundaries
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Sorry JP, just talking from my experience in Ontario where they generally (at 
least in Southern Ontario) follow legal boundaries. 
In the end, whoever does it will need to have knowledge of the area and how 
boundaries work in that province/locality, but boundaries are definitely 
important for geocoding and analysis and would remove the need for extremely 
redundant addr tags that are used for cities.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: "J.P. Kirby"  
Date: 2017-03-07  1:21 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: James  Cc: 
Talk-CA OpenStreetMap  Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] 
Municipal boundaries 
And even then, not all CSDs are municipalities. In Nova Scotia for instance 
they have "county subdivisions" which have no legal standing at all and are 
just StatsCan creations.
I'd suggest boundaries of actual municipalities are worthy of being added into 
OSM, but not all CSDs fit that bill.

Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2017, at 2:10 PM, James  wrote:

CSDs are suppose to represent city/town limits (observable as usually there's a 
sign that says Welcome to X or Sorry to see you leave X), but they have been 
rounded off to look nice and may not reflect what it is in reality

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
On 2017-03-07 10:36 AM, Bjenk Ellefsen wrote:

>

> … Any more thoughts?



If you're planning to import/add abstract statistical boundaries, rather

than those defined by municipal boundaries, then I'd suggest that they

don't belong in OSM.



 “Contributions to OpenStreetmap should be:

   1. Truthful - means that you cannot contribute something you have

    invented.

   2. Legal - means that you don't copy copyrighted data without

    permission.

   3. Verifiable - means that others can go there and see for

    themselves if your data is correct.

   4. Relevant - means that you have to use tags that make clear to

    others how to re-use the data



  When in doubt, also consider the "on the ground rule": map the world

  as it can be observed by someone physically there.”



 — How We Map 



Unless CSDs are physically observable, they are too abstract for OSM.



 Stewart
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--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 13:50:03 -0500
From: Denis Carriere 
To: kevinfarrugia 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Municipal boundaries
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

+1 Kevin again :)

Boundaries are a MUST if ever you want better geocoding.

We just need to deconflict the boundaries that are different from StatsCan
& the local municipalities (these boundaries should be "authoritative" if
they exist).

Remember, not all townships have a full GIS team working for them, there's
going to be many areas in Canada that StatsCan does have the "best" data.

*~~*
*Denis Carriere*
*GIS Software & Systems Specialist*

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:38 PM, kevinfarrugia 
wrote:

[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

Big news, the City of Ottawa has released the footprint of over 325,000 
buildings on their open data portal in support to the project with Statistics 
Canada and the OSM community.

We are very grateful for the amazing collaboration with the City of Ottawa on 
this pilot project and are very pleased for this amazing contribution.

Link:
http://data.ottawa.ca/en/dataset/urban-buildings



Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Unit head | Chef de sous-section
Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab d'exploration et intégration 
de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004

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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Devon, about your point number 1, the big difference is that the 
large_buildings file contains 15,000 buildings with a minimum number of floors 
to qualify. The data being released in January has over 325,000 buildings that 
are not just tall buildings but houses as well.

Bjenk

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: December-22-16 2:03 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5

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Today's Topics:

   1. [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada
  project] (Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN))
   2. Re: [Imports] Fwd: [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses
  [Statistics Canada project] (Devon Fyson)
   3. Re: [Imports] Fwd: [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses
  [Statistics Canada project] (James)
   4. Re: [Imports] Fwd: [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses
  [Statistics Canada project] (James)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 18:15:25 +0000
From: "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
To: "'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org'" <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [Talk-ca] [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics
Canada  project]
Message-ID:
<317ee2d57e1c41cb98ea1273b1509...@pelepcdexc046.birch.int.bell.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Hello everyone,

As James wrote yesterday, the City of Ottawa has approved the release of a 
large building footprints file for their Open Data portal.
We have been working in close collaboration with the City of Ottawa on that 
front and it is a major contribution. 

We are tracking progress and will communicate the changes to the map soon. 

We want to thank everyone for your feedback and please continue sending us your 
suggestions! A new version of the adapted version of iD is live. This updated 
version was redone to restore the built-in login process of iD and the app 
doesn’t load in an iframe anymore. This new version is also using the available 
built-in functions for a number of things. This has improved performance and it 
is working in all browsers.

If you see any bugs if you have any comments to improve it, let us know! 
(http://www.crowdid.osmcanada.ca)

We wish the best holidays with your families and friends!

Bjenk
Crowdsourcing team at Statistics Canada 

Website: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/crowdsourcing?HPA=1
Email: bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca
Project email for feedback: statcan.crowdsource.stat...@canada.ca / 
statcan.approcheparticipative.stat...@canada.ca




--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 13:47:58 -0500
From: Devon Fyson <devonfy...@gmail.com>
To: impo...@openstreetmap.org, talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Fwd: [Import] Ottawa Buildings &
Addresses [Statistics Canada project]
Message-ID:
<cahrj+yukmifat6zpxkecsr+vwydepdfgmirzdxg1jo-+7n-...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Here's are my thoughts on it:

   1. Arn't the building polygons already available? I see large buildings
   <http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/large-buildings> and the topographic DWG
   file <http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/cad-topographic-data> which contains
   buildings.
   2. If this
   
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Plan%20is%20still%20the%20import%20plan>
   is still the import plan, it should be gone through and updated.
   3. Should make use of the changeset tags
   <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/changeset_tags>
   Most importantly type and url. For example:

   comment=Import building polygons for Ottawa, Canada. Importing
   non-existant polygons  Conflating with existing polygons
   type=import
   url:en=https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:
   Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Plan
   source:date=
   source=City of Ottawa (maybe should include the dataset such as CAD
   Topographic Mapping Data or Large Buildings)
   source:url=http://data.ottawa.ca/en/dataset/cad-topographic-data (not in
   the list, but I made a comment about it here
   
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/changeset_tags#source:url.3D.2A>
   )
   source:license=City of Ottawa Open Data Licence 2.0

   I'm not sure if the tasking manager to JOSM pipeline supports 

[Talk-ca] [Import] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

As James wrote yesterday, the City of Ottawa has approved the release of a 
large building footprints file for their Open Data portal.
We have been working in close collaboration with the City of Ottawa on that 
front and it is a major contribution. 

We are tracking progress and will communicate the changes to the map soon. 

We want to thank everyone for your feedback and please continue sending us your 
suggestions! A new version of the adapted version of iD is live. This updated 
version was redone to restore the built-in login process of iD and the app 
doesn’t load in an iframe anymore. This new version is also using the available 
built-in functions for a number of things. This has improved performance and it 
is working in all browsers.

If you see any bugs if you have any comments to improve it, let us know! 
(http://www.crowdid.osmcanada.ca)

We wish the best holidays with your families and friends!

Bjenk
Crowdsourcing team at Statistics Canada 

Website: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/crowdsourcing?HPA=1
Email: bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca
Project email for feedback: statcan.crowdsource.stat...@canada.ca / 
statcan.approcheparticipative.stat...@canada.ca



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[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada, Launching!

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello,

We are now live and launching! Thanks everyone for your help and let's see how 
this goes!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/crowdsourcing

Bonjour,

Nous sommes en ligne! Le projet est lancé!

Merci à tous pour votre aide et voyons comment ça se déroulera !

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/fra/approcheparticipative


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Unit head | Chef de sous-section
Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab d'exploration et intégration 
de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004

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Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa has a new Open Data licence.

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

John, this is great!

So, that means you can use the address file, its online right? I also have 
another file that is not on the portal and it contains well over 300,000 
buildings which most are not on OSM. How shall we proceed with that file?

We are still putting those up on the federal portal if that is useful or should 
we just put the big one?


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Unit head |Chef de sous-section
Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004 (Ottawa / Gatineau)







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[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada - Outreach launch

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

We are launching the outreach tomorrow. Canadians will be made aware of the 
project.

As soon as the Webpage is live, I will add the link to the OSM Canada wiki in 
the section for the project.

This is giving us another month to work out some details. Do not hesitate to 
raise anything you might see so we can make some changes if it's possible.

I would like to start a wiki page for documentation that we can also link to. 
There was one that was started if I remember, I will have to go back in my 
messages.  Some of us are going to meet to discuss the import process for the 
footprints soon.

It's been very busy since my return from vacation so, I am sorry for the lack 
of updates recently!

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Unit head | Chef de sous-section
Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab d'exploration et intégration 
de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004

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[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

I am back from vacation and doing my best to catch up! Things are moving fast 
so I will jump right into some updates:

I added the project on the OSM Canada wiki page on both English and French page.
I would like to add a separate page where we will document the project in 
detail and we can add the link in the subsection for the project.

I also made a small change to the French page to make both language pages be 
more similar. The section for Canada sub projects was just called "Objectifs". 
I hope this is ok with everyone!

I have more updates to give but I will come back later!

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab d'exploration et intégration 
de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004

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Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Pierre, oui je connais bien MBTiles. J’ai déjà travaillé avec ça pour un projet.

Je produisais mes tuiles pour le Canada sur un vieux MacBook Pro avec TileMill. 
Je laissais rouler la nuit, tout un plaisir le matin de trouver qu’il y avait 
une erreur.
Good times !

Je vais regarder Overpass à tête reposée ce weekend et jouer un peu avec 
osmlint.

Merci beaucoup, Pierre je t’en redonne des nouvelles !

Bjenk

From: Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr]
Sent: August-12-16 1:56 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: 'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org' <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

Je n'ai pas utilisé OSMLint. Ce sont de nouveaux produits de contrôle de 
qualité en développement par MapBox.

Pour une petite zone telle que Gatineau-Ottawa, des requêtes Overpass offrent 
beaucoup de flexibilité pour l'analyse qualité, les statistiques et le suivi 
des contributeurs. On peut sélectionner des couches particuilères telles que 
immeubles, adresses, etc.

Les outils tels que OSMLint sont aussi intéressants mais demandent davantage de 
développement.

Avec OSMLint, on sélectionne une zone BBOX, et les données sont produites sous 
forme de tuiles MBTiles pour visualisation de cartes avec outils OpenLayers ou 
Leaflet.

On utilise la même technologie que pour les images 256 x 256 pixels utilisés 
sur les cartes. Les tuiles sont produites pour différents niveaux de zoom Un 
fichier MBTiles est un fichier SQLite et des procédures permettent de lire ces 
fichiers dans OpenLayers ou Leaflet, de sélectionner les données pour le niveau 
de zoom et la zone sélectionnée.

Ce format permet de produire une couche de données et de visualiser sur une 
carte un grand nombre de données, comme l'exemple sur cette page :
Data quality + vandalism detection in 
OpenStreetMap<https://www.mapbox.com/blog/geodc-feb2016/>


Pierre

____
De : "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
À : 'Pierre Béland' <pierz...@yahoo.fr<mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr>>
Cc : "'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org'" 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Envoyé le : vendredi 12 août 2016 12h58
Objet : RE: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

Pierre,

Ces scripts sont intéressants. Je vais regarder ça de plus près.

As-tu essayer osmlint? Tu as une opinion sur cet outil?

Bjenk


From: Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr]
Sent: August-12-16 11:43 AM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>; 
'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org' 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

Bonjour Bjenk

Le script python suivant permet d'obtenir des statistiques de contribution pour 
une zone rectangulaire - BBOX.
https://github.com/pierzen/osm-contributor-stats
Pour chaque Changeset OSM, il retourne le uid de l'usager plus stats de 
modification des objets.  Il fonctionne relativement bien pour une petite zone. 
Mais lorsque les serveurs OSM sont surchargés comme actuellement, il y a 
souvent des interruptions, et les données ne sont pas toutes transférées.

Une solution simple est de lancer régulièrement le script Overpass suivant et 
de simplement modifier la date Newer: (objets modifiés depuis date Newer). On 
peut voir visuellement où il y a eu des modifications depuis date donnée. On 
peut aussi importer dans JOSM ou encore importer les données pour analyse à 
l'aide d'un XML-Parser.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/hPK


Pierre


De : "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
À : "'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org'" 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Envoyé le : vendredi 12 août 2016 9h23
Objet : [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

Hello,

I wish to share with you what we are planning on doing to track progress and 
monitor:

Baseline: we will do an extract of OSM before launch. We will take note of the 
number of buildings in Ottawa/Gatineau, number of users, number of tags per 
building.
Periodically, we will monitor for change in number of buildings, tags per 
buildings and number of users and their contributions.

Any good reference on what can be done for analysis or users contributions? I 
know Mikel presented something at SOTM US and I am trying to track that down.

Mikel Maron suggested osmlint. If anyone else has suggestions, insights for the 
methodology and tools, indicators, please don’t hesitate!


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special

Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Pierre,

Ces scripts sont intéressants. Je vais regarder ça de plus près.

As-tu essayer osmlint? Tu as une opinion sur cet outil?

Bjenk


From: Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr]
Sent: August-12-16 11:43 AM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>; 
'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org' <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

Bonjour Bjenk

Le script python suivant permet d'obtenir des statistiques de contribution pour 
une zone rectangulaire - BBOX.

https://github.com/pierzen/osm-contributor-stats

Pour chaque Changeset OSM, il retourne le uid de l'usager plus stats de 
modification des objets.  Il fonctionne relativement bien pour une petite zone. 
Mais lorsque les serveurs OSM sont surchargés comme actuellement, il y a 
souvent des interruptions, et les données ne sont pas toutes transférées.


Une solution simple est de lancer régulièrement le script Overpass suivant et 
de simplement modifier la date Newer: (objets modifiés depuis date Newer). On 
peut voir visuellement où il y a eu des modifications depuis date donnée. On 
peut aussi importer dans JOSM ou encore importer les données pour analyse à 
l'aide d'un XML-Parser.


http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/hPK


Pierre


____
De : "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
À : "'talk-ca@openstreetmap.org'" 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Envoyé le : vendredi 12 août 2016 9h23
Objet : [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

Hello,

I wish to share with you what we are planning on doing to track progress and 
monitor:

Baseline: we will do an extract of OSM before launch. We will take note of the 
number of buildings in Ottawa/Gatineau, number of users, number of tags per 
building.
Periodically, we will monitor for change in number of buildings, tags per 
buildings and number of users and their contributions.

Any good reference on what can be done for analysis or users contributions? I 
know Mikel presented something at SOTM US and I am trying to track that down.

Mikel Maron suggested osmlint. If anyone else has suggestions, insights for the 
methodology and tools, indicators, please don’t hesitate!


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004 (Ottawa / Gatineau)





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[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings - project with StatCan

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello,

Said simply, we are looking for the following:

*   Building type (residential, commercial, industrial, school, farm, etc.)
*   Building name
*   Address
*   Use (this is similar to type but I understand that there needs to be an 
attribute to capture stuff like office=government)
*   Wheelchair access


I have looked at the tags structure and it doesn't look too complicated. One 
discussion we had was about two options.

The first was to define the building and have all shops and amenities brought 
under the building. This is not how it's done on OSM. There are markers to 
identify those.
The feeling at first was that this is a good idea so they all have the common 
address and location of the building and everything there is associated to the 
building.

The sentiment has changed about this, however. The way it's done now seems 
preferable: buildings and info about them with businesses and amenities as 
markers with their own info so basically not changing how it's done.
We have compared with other larger cities and this seems to be the way everyone 
is doing it anyway


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004 (Ottawa / Gatineau)




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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 21

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

John has the gist of it.

We will use a modified version of iD running off of a StatCan website.

A splash page will invite Canadians to participate with simple instructions and 
a link for when they want to start.

We will also link to the OSM Canada and wiki.


I will write back this PM about the buildings attributes we are looking for.

Bjenk 

Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:26:46 -0400
From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
To: James <james2...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>, Talk-CA
OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
Message-ID:
<caj-ex1e2bxxrjg0bsumoyw2p1hzec2b48-qgfwymkjy0zl2...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think the Stats Canada project is evolving as Bjenk understands a little
more about what he’d like and what we can do.

My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of
Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap
without the current license restriction.

My feeling is the tile approach was an early one which won’t work as well
as he thought.  Some of the attributes he’d like, you just can’t get from
Bing aerial imagery.

He’s asking for a more disciplined approach than we usually do using a more
standardised set of tags.  Currently fire stations for example are often
tagged amenity=fire_station and sometimes they have a building=yes tag.  I
think he’d like these to be tagged building=civic to be more specific than
building=yes.  So a lot of clean up work needs to be done.

He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address
including postcode.  Which is interesting as currently each node of store
within a building might have part of the address.  Postcodes often are not
present.  If we decide to strip out the address other than the unit number
from the nodes within a building outline we’d probably save a little
database space.  By the way we need an agreement on what to use for unit
addr:unit perhaps?

I’m not certain if he realises that 5-10% of our mappers make 80+% of the
edits, often using JOSM so as long as he gives the attributes he’d like and
we accept them then I suspect much of the work is done.  However I
understand the plan is to have a customised version of iD.  Stats Canada
traditionally has a sample file which is made available to field workers.
I would imagine they will try to do the same here.  A file which contains a
list of building outlines which they would like enriched.  One problem I
see arising is a new mapper mapping to the Stats Canada guide lines using
iD changes one or more existing tags.  I do a fair amount of validation in
HOT and some newer mappers either completely ignore or misunderstand the
instructions.

I’ve heard two comments so far from professionals working in the GIS / Open
data fields, one was they didn’t think it would work, Stats are asking too
much.  The second was more guarded they thought it could work and it would
certainly be interesting to watch.  I would tend to agree with the second
one, it will certainly be interesting to watch.

Cheerio John

On 6 August 2016 at 09:45, James <james2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, that was when I wastracing buildings manually, Gatineau and Ottawa
> boundaries should maybe be combined into one project as there is
> duplication(overlap) due to how the task manager splits tiles into nice
> squares
>
> On Aug 5, 2016 11:50 PM, "Stewart C. Russell" <scr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-05 11:08 PM, Laura O'Grady wrote:
>> > I just noticed that there is a project for Ottawa in the Canadian
>> > Tasking Manager [1] called, "#2 - Ottawa Building Update".
>>
>> This looks a little old - it was last used 8 months ago. It also has
>> some unnecessary guidelines, such as adding the redundant (and possibly
>> incorrect, if you accidentally go over over a boundary)
>> addr:city=Ottawa. Ottawa and Gatineau should have boundary relations in
>> place.
>>
>>  Stewart
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 20

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Laura,

This is not related to the project. We considered using it though but our IT 
advised against it.

This platform can certainly assist in the effort. We will be using a website 
for this though and webpage will provide instructions on what we wish to 
accomplish to enrich the buildings information on OSM.

Bjenk


Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 23:08:39 -0400
From: "Laura O'Grady" <la...@lauraogrady.ca>
To: "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
Message-ID: <b5f01002-1c60-4642-ad3f-076a60266...@lauraogrady.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I just noticed that there is a project for Ottawa in the Canadian Tasking 
Manager [1] called, "#2 - Ottawa Building Update".

Is this related to your initiative? Can this platform assist in the effort?

Laura

-
Laura O'Grady
la...@lauraogrady.ca
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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 22

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Stewart, 

Yes, the plan is this: we met with our folks in dissemination working on the 
open data initiative. First, we need to host these files ourselves at StatCan. 
So they have to go through an approval process to go our open data release 
servers. Then, they will be linked to open.canada.ca.

The overall plan is to bring this data under the federal open data license of 
open.canada.ca. 
The license info: open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada
This was established after consultations with many groups. The discussion page 
is interesting as well.

Let me know what you think!

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: August-06-16 7:00 PM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 22

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
  (Stewart C. Russell)
   2. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (john whelan)
   3. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (john whelan)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:38:48 -0400
From: "Stewart C. Russell" <scr...@gmail.com>
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
Message-ID: <d0ca5c04-cc47-558e-d691-532842b4e...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi John - some great points here.

> My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of
> Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap
> without the current license restriction.

This would be wonderful. It would be ideal if the data could be placed
on data.gc.ca and use the OGL-CA v2 licence. OSM can't use any data
under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use
<http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use>. I
also have my doubts about the acceptability of the Statistics Canada
Open Licence Agreement <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/reference/licence>.
OGL-CA v2, though, we know to be acceptable.

Also, if there were to be an import, we *must* follow the
Import/Guidelines
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> or risk having
any new imports deleted. The recent LA building import provides a decent
template, but there are no imports without the Data Working Group having
knowledge of it.

[** Bjenk: if all this seems gibberish, please ping me off-list, and I'd
be happy to have a chat. Despite my previous flippant comments, I think
this is a great project.]

To some more of John's points:

> He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address
> including postcode.  Which is interesting as currently each node of
> store within a building might have part of the address.

For sure. I looked at the City of Ottawa data, and getting it to mesh
with existing address points and ranges in OSM is going to be challenging:

* fixing street naming to meet OSM standards (so Ottawa's 991 CARLING
AVE would have to become addr:housenumber=991 and addr:street=Carling
Avenue). Not impossible, but would need some manual oversight

* Inconsistent application of French to some street names, English to
others, and no obvious metadata to distinguish language

* some buildings in mixed-use neighbourhoods will have multiple address
points, all containing the same address (eg St Stephen's on Parkdale Ave
has three 579 Parkdale Ave nodes)

* some buildings just plain don't have address points nearby (like the
Agri-Food Canada Building on Carling Ave)

* rationalizing address points with existing address ranges.

And then there's the postal code problem. If Stat Canada can bring us a
licence-compatible data set of full codes that Canada Post *won't* try
to sue us over, that would be glorious. I'm not sure we could get enough
traction with the general Canadian public to do the "Free the Postcode"
initiative like in the UK to make this useful as a crowdsourcing effort.

> … One problem I see arising is a new mapper mapping to the
> Stats Canada guide lines using iD changes one or more existing tags.  I
> do a fair amount of validation in HOT and some newer mappers either
> completely ignore or misunderstand the instructions.

Yes, this can be a problem with newer ma

Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

The postal code subject is interesting for many reasons. I read that France has 
released a National address database, publically and free.

There must be a way we can follow that example.

I am still catching up, haha!

Bjenk

From: john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com]
Sent: August-06-16 7:23 PM
To: Laura O'Grady <la...@lauraogrady.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>; Ellefsen, Bjenk 
(STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>; Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada


The postcode battle is being fought on the Open Data side.   There is an open 
data mailing list whose name escapes me where they have been playing for years 
to get the postcode data including access to information requests.

Tracy at Carleton University is well connected on the Open Data side and the 
postcode saga.  There is some hope now that the UK post office has made the UK 
ones available.

For the moment many commercial companies do list their postcode on their web 
sites and the the commercial buildings that are the ones of interest to Stats 
Canada.

I suspect Bjenk will have fun when he checks his email on Monday morning when 
he arrives in the office.  We've been quite chatty over the weekend.

Cheerio John

On 6 Aug 2016 7:02 pm, "Laura O'Grady" 
<la...@lauraogrady.ca<mailto:la...@lauraogrady.ca>> wrote:
There's a form [1] requesting this data set. Not sure if posting a request will 
help as we know this has been going on for years.

You can get the Forward Sortation Areas in a boundary file [2], which can be 
exported from the db. I noticed the disclaimer, "This data includes information 
copied with permission from Canada Post Corporation". But of course this is 
incomplete. I wonder if it's the latter 3 characters, the Local Delivery Unit, 
which can pinpoint to individual households is being suppressed for privacy 
reasons.

As an academic we battled Stats Can for years for access to data that was paid 
for by taxpayer dollars. Eventually we won. So there's a precedent of sorts.

Has anyone tried filing a freedom of information request for the postal codes?

Laura

-
Laura O'Grady
la...@lauraogrady.ca<mailto:la...@lauraogrady.ca>


[1] http://open.canada.ca/en/suggested-datasets/postal-code-database
[2] 
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm

On Aug 6, 2016, at 2:12 PM, john whelan 
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
​I understand the current intent is data.gc.ca<http://data.gc.ca>

There is actually a lot of postcode data in Ottawa adhresses as it stands 
especially for commercial buildings.  Don't hold your breath for Canada Post 
and postcodes.

Some attributes they would like at the moment I can't see how a mapper would 
map them from physically looking at the building.

If nothing else it should clean up the map.  For that reason it would be nice 
to be able to pull chunks into JOSM and go over it looking for obvious errors 
and spelling mistakes in tags.  Maperitive has the ability to extract the tags 
and export them in spreadsheet format which is good for this sort of thing but 
you need a source to feed it.​


Cheerio John

On 6 August 2016 at 12:38, Stewart C. Russell 
<scr...@gmail.com<mailto:scr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi John - some great points here.

> My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of
> Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap
> without the current license restriction.

This would be wonderful. It would be ideal if the data could be placed
on data.gc.ca<http://data.gc.ca> and use the OGL-CA v2 licence. OSM can't use 
any data
under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use
<http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use>. I
also have my doubts about the acceptability of the Statistics Canada
Open Licence Agreement <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/reference/licence>.
OGL-CA v2, though, we know to be acceptable.

Also, if there were to be an import, we *must* follow the
Import/Guidelines
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> or risk having
any new imports deleted. The recent LA building import provides a decent
template, but there are no imports without the Data Working Group having
knowledge of it.

[** Bjenk: if all this seems gibberish, please ping me off-list, and I'd
be happy to have a chat. Despite my previous flippant comments, I think
this is a great project.]

To some more of John's points:

> He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address
> including postcode.  Which is interesting as currently each node of
> store within a building might have part of the address.

For sure. I looked at the City of Ottawa data, and getting it to mesh
with existing address points and ran

[Talk-ca] Statistics Canada buildings - iD interface

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

When we launch, the plan so far is to have a modified version of iD for 
Canadians to use.
This version will be hosted by StatCan wrapped in a basic StatCan website.

The options were to simply direct towards the OSM webpage with the default iD, 
to use a modified iD version that we host or to use tasking manager.

We have a basic modified iD version for now.

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004 (Ottawa / Gatineau)




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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 19

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

John, 

I believe instructions should be provided somewhere. It’s a good idea to 
document the project like the LA building and to have a page where guidance is 
provided on how to do buildings.

The wiki for the project could do that. We will have a presentation page that 
could point there for instructions.

Bjenk

Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:30:34 -0400
From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>,  "Ellefsen,
    Bjenk (STATCAN)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Stats Can Guidelines for mappers
Message-ID:
<CAJ-Ex1Fe+_tTkxe6cjejx=S9MAp59dYmboAZ=O0=toe7lib...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It probably sounds dumb but building:levels etc will need some guidance,
for example in the case of a shopping centre where most is single level but
part, perhaps a third, is two levels.  Gas stations building=roof with a
separate building=commercial for the till?

Is there somewhere in the OSM wiki that can be pointed to for each
attribute required or should someone prepare something specifically for
this project?

Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

James,

Thank you for this. Comparing with what is already there and the new data is 
definitely a major first step.

For licensing, we are making sure to follow terms and conditions. So far, 
footprints that we obtained are all cleared for use.
Getting addresses is going to be part of the collection stage from participants 
so we it will be in the fields people can fill out.
Hopefully, it helps to complete what’s missing.

We will make available about 300 000 buildings for Ottawa soon. Dave and Mojgan 
suggested methodologies to do the import in segments.
We can look into those as well.

Bjenk

From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-26-16 7:55 AM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

For Gatineau, I've been manually tracing buildings via this project:

http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/1
The yellow squares are the ones I completed in tracing the buildings, so during 
the review stage, the work could be compared to what Gatineau gives you to make 
sure everything is correct and not any missing buildings(old Satellite imagery 
data)
We could use
http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/2
For Ottawa, I've not started on this yet, as Gatineau has a lot of buildings 
and I am not even near completing it.
One of the major issues will be merging with the existing data, that's why I 
think a tasking manager will be appropriate for the task. There is also the 
licensing issue(I think you've covered this in the past).
Gatineau currently has all address points in OSM so no need to combine them 
with the buildings. Ottawa does not due to licensing issues.

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hi James,

We are working in partnerships with both municipalities of Ottawa and Gatineau. 
So far, Ottawa has given us two files. One is a large buildings file available 
through their open data portal. It contains about 16 000 building footprints.  
The other is a larger file with over 300 000 buildings in it. That one contains 
footprints that are not on OSM after a quick look through.

John mentioned that the best way to make it available is through the TB open 
data portal so I am going to look into that.

We are talking with Gatineau and they will join the project. I will give 
updates on how this is going.


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004<tel:%28343%29%20998-3004>



From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com<mailto:james2...@gmail.com>]
Sent: July-18-16 4:58 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada


Should be pretty easy on the Gatineau sode as all the address points are there, 
as for Ottawa, not so much until they decide to change their license

On Jul 18, 2016 11:28 AM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Dear members of the Board of Directors,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen. I am working for the Data Exploration and 
Integration Lab at Statistics Canada.

I am writing to inform you that earlier this month, Statistics Canada initiated 
a two-year pilot project aimed at understanding the potential of data 
crowdsourcing for statistical purposes.

We are planning to use OpenStreetMap as a platform for inviting contributors to 
crowdsource information on non-residential buildings (footprints, addresses and 
simple building attributes). The pilot project will focus on the 
Ottawa-Gatineau region.

We have assembled a multi-disciplinary project team, which includes people from 
five divisions of Statistics Canada and also from the municipalities of Ottawa 
and Gatineau.

In November of last year, my chief, Alessandro Alasia, spoke with Paul Norman. 
At that time, we were exploring the idea of crowdsourcing. We have done quite a 
lot of background research and planning since then (although much learning 
remains to be done). The preliminary idea has evolved in a proof of concept 
proposal and, from there, into the current project.

Earlier this month we held a first meeting/conference call with the local 
(Canada/Ottawa) OSM community. We hope to strengthen these ties further in the 
coming months by engaging the OSM community through Talk-ca.

This pilot project is a major innovative undertaking for our Agency. There are 
a multitude of aspects that we need to assess and learn about (including the IT 
dimension, communic

Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Could we make that page more encompassing of Canada and the project? Other 
areas might want to get started and it would be great if they could find the 
info as well.


From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: August-03-16 12:50 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

We could put it here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ottawa_Gatineau_Buildings
and then link to it from:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa
and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gatineau
under the data import section. That way people can find the information much 
easier

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Great! Should we start a separate wiki page or put it under OSM Canada?

From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com<mailto:james2...@gmail.com>]
Sent: August-03-16 12:28 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada


We can. People at State of the map US in seattle really seemed to enjoy how 
well documented it was. Which makes maintenance a bit easier if stuff is 
documented

On Aug 3, 2016 12:23 PM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:

The city of los angeles went through the same process(importing buildings) and 
this might be useful for the project:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Los_angeles,_California/Buildings_Import

On Aug 3, 2016 11:04 AM, "john whelan" 
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Technically we can add to what is there but that adds volume to the database.

We also need to settle on the tags to be used.  I noted the use of 
building=retail I assume that is acceptable as well as commercial.

Another tag used is ele which has the same values as building:levels but I 
hadn't seen it before.

Cheerio John

On 3 Aug 2016 10:40 am, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
We could use only a selection of tags. In the form in the interface we will 
use, it could be just residential and apartments not be in the choices.

We will use the tags reserved for buildings. As John mentioned, malls can have 
just a few tags and then there are these shops and amenities floating at the 
same address. Could we have the building and the tags shops, offices, amenities 
attached to them?

Bjenk

From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com<mailto:james2...@gmail.com>]
Sent: August-02-16 3:10 PM
To: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>; Ellefsen, Bjenk 
(STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

building=apartments should also be considered residential if not they are 
tagged as offices. There is going to have to be grouping of some tags for 
residential, commercial and industrial buildings to get a full tally

Yeah, terrace homes, duplexes, triplexes, condos may all have unique civic 
addresses. Apartments may have the the same civic address but also includes an 
apartment no which needs to be mapped differently then just assigning a address 
to a building(you are now getting into entraces and addr:flats) example of a 
terrace home: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2688375179 and 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262705861  this is the way they are doing it 
in the UK (after many hours in IRC asking how to properly map them)

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM, john whelan 
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote:

How many buildings are tagged with a building tag or is that step one tag 
building with the building tag and type?

How do we handle a shopping mall with a building outline and a nodes for the 
stores?

Thanks John

On 2 Aug 2016 2:53 pm, "James" 
<james2...@gmail.com<mailto:james2...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There is a way to tag a building type
Here is a list of the building types:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Values

On Aug 2, 2016 2:48 PM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Here is what we would invite Canadians to tell us about buildings for OSM:

name
Address:
• Number
• street
• city
• postal code
levels
office, shop
type of access (handicap, etc.)

I

Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

We could use only a selection of tags. In the form in the interface we will 
use, it could be just residential and apartments not be in the choices.

We will use the tags reserved for buildings. As John mentioned, malls can have 
just a few tags and then there are these shops and amenities floating at the 
same address. Could we have the building and the tags shops, offices, amenities 
attached to them?

Bjenk

From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: August-02-16 3:10 PM
To: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>; Ellefsen, Bjenk 
(STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

building=apartments should also be considered residential if not they are 
tagged as offices. There is going to have to be grouping of some tags for 
residential, commercial and industrial buildings to get a full tally

Yeah, terrace homes, duplexes, triplexes, condos may all have unique civic 
addresses. Apartments may have the the same civic address but also includes an 
apartment no which needs to be mapped differently then just assigning a address 
to a building(you are now getting into entraces and addr:flats) example of a 
terrace home: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2688375179 and 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262705861  this is the way they are doing it 
in the UK (after many hours in IRC asking how to properly map them)

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM, john whelan 
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote:

How many buildings are tagged with a building tag or is that step one tag 
building with the building tag and type?

How do we handle a shopping mall with a building outline and a nodes for the 
stores?

Thanks John

On 2 Aug 2016 2:53 pm, "James" 
<james2...@gmail.com<mailto:james2...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There is a way to tag a building type
Here is a list of the building types:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Values

On Aug 2, 2016 2:48 PM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Here is what we would invite Canadians to tell us about buildings for OSM:

name
Address:
· Number
· street
· city
· postal code
levels
office, shop
type of access (handicap, etc.)

If there is a way to categorize them as residential, non-residential that would 
be perfect.

What do you think? Anything else we should add?


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004<tel:%28343%29%20998-3004>




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--
外に遊びに行こう！

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM, john whelan 
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote:

How many buildings are tagged with a building tag or is that step one tag 
building with the building tag and type?

How do we handle a shopping mall with a building outline and a nodes for the 
stores?

Thanks John

On 2 Aug 2016 2:53 pm, "James" 
<james2...@gmail.com<mailto:james2...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There is a way to tag a building type
Here is a list of the building types:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Values

On Aug 2, 2016 2:48 PM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Here is what we would invite Canadians to tell us about buildings for OSM:

name
Address:
· Number
· street
· city
· postal code
levels
office, shop
type of access (handicap, etc.)

If there is a way to categorize them as residential, non-residential that would 
be perfect.

What do you think? Anything else we should add?


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004<tel:%28343%29%20998-3004>




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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 6

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

This is a great link, James. Can we follow a similar workflow and rules?

We could write a similar wiki page.

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: August-03-16 11:08 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 6

Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (James)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:07:41 -0400
From: James <james2...@gmail.com>
To: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>, Talk-CA
OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
Message-ID:
<cank4qi9428yftrz5bmmxqekent5qr8wx+jifabwdzse7hjj...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The city of los angeles went through the same process(importing buildings)
and this might be useful for the project:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Los_angeles,_California/Buildings_Import

On Aug 3, 2016 11:04 AM, "john whelan" <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Technically we can add to what is there but that adds volume to the
> database.
>
> We also need to settle on the tags to be used.  I noted the use of
> building=retail I assume that is acceptable as well as commercial.
>
> Another tag used is ele which has the same values as building:levels but I
> hadn't seen it before.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 3 Aug 2016 10:40 am, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <
> bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:
>
>> We could use only a selection of tags. In the form in the interface we
>> will use, it could be just residential and apartments not be in the choices.
>>
>>
>>
>> We will use the tags reserved for buildings. As John mentioned, malls can
>> have just a few tags and then there are these shops and amenities floating
>> at the same address. Could we have the building and the tags shops,
>> offices, amenities attached to them?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bjenk
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* August-02-16 3:10 PM
>> *To:* john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>; Ellefsen, Bjenk
>> (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> building=apartments should also be considered residential if not they are
>> tagged as offices. There is going to have to be grouping of some tags for
>> residential, commercial and industrial buildings to get a full tally
>>
>> Yeah, terrace homes, duplexes, triplexes, condos may all have unique
>> civic addresses. Apartments may have the the same civic address but also
>> includes an apartment no which needs to be mapped differently then just
>> assigning a address to a building(you are now getting into entraces and
>> addr:flats) example of a terrace home:
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2688375179 and
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262705861  this is the way they are
>> doing it in the UK (after many hours in IRC asking how to properly map them)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> How many buildings are tagged with a building tag or is that step one tag
>> building with the building tag and type?
>>
>> How do we handle a shopping mall with a building outline and a nodes for
>> the stores?
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Aug 2016 2:53 pm, "James" <james2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There is a way to tag a building type
>> Here is a list of the building types:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Values
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2016 2:48 PM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <
>> bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is what we would invite

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 6

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Thank you, James! This is very useful!

-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: August-03-16 11:08 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 6

Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (James)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:07:41 -0400
From: James <james2...@gmail.com>
To: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>, Talk-CA
OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
Message-ID:
<cank4qi9428yftrz5bmmxqekent5qr8wx+jifabwdzse7hjj...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The city of los angeles went through the same process(importing buildings)
and this might be useful for the project:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Los_angeles,_California/Buildings_Import

On Aug 3, 2016 11:04 AM, "john whelan" <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Technically we can add to what is there but that adds volume to the
> database.
>
> We also need to settle on the tags to be used.  I noted the use of
> building=retail I assume that is acceptable as well as commercial.
>
> Another tag used is ele which has the same values as building:levels but I
> hadn't seen it before.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 3 Aug 2016 10:40 am, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <
> bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:
>
>> We could use only a selection of tags. In the form in the interface we
>> will use, it could be just residential and apartments not be in the choices.
>>
>>
>>
>> We will use the tags reserved for buildings. As John mentioned, malls can
>> have just a few tags and then there are these shops and amenities floating
>> at the same address. Could we have the building and the tags shops,
>> offices, amenities attached to them?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bjenk
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* August-02-16 3:10 PM
>> *To:* john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>; Ellefsen, Bjenk
>> (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> building=apartments should also be considered residential if not they are
>> tagged as offices. There is going to have to be grouping of some tags for
>> residential, commercial and industrial buildings to get a full tally
>>
>> Yeah, terrace homes, duplexes, triplexes, condos may all have unique
>> civic addresses. Apartments may have the the same civic address but also
>> includes an apartment no which needs to be mapped differently then just
>> assigning a address to a building(you are now getting into entraces and
>> addr:flats) example of a terrace home:
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2688375179 and
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262705861  this is the way they are
>> doing it in the UK (after many hours in IRC asking how to properly map them)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:03 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> How many buildings are tagged with a building tag or is that step one tag
>> building with the building tag and type?
>>
>> How do we handle a shopping mall with a building outline and a nodes for
>> the stores?
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Aug 2016 2:53 pm, "James" <james2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There is a way to tag a building type
>> Here is a list of the building types:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building#Values
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2016 2:48 PM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <
>> bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is what we would invite Canadians to tell us about buildings for OSM:
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Yes, that would be very useful.

From: john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com]
Sent: August-02-16 3:56 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

Most buildings in Ottawa are wheelchair accessible do you want them tagged as 
such, we also have a tag for 
toilets:wheelchair<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:toilets:wheelchair> 
which means States if a location has a wheelchair accessible toilet or not.  I 
think this might be useful to map anyway.
Cheerio John

On 2 August 2016 at 14:46, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Here is what we would invite Canadians to tell us about buildings for OSM:

name
Address:
· Number
· street
· city
· postal code
levels
office, shop
type of access (handicap, etc.)

If there is a way to categorize them as residential, non-residential that would 
be perfect.

What do you think? Anything else we should add?


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004<tel:%28343%29%20998-3004>




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[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

Here is what we would invite Canadians to tell us about buildings for OSM:

name
Address:
*   Number
*   street
*   city
*   postal code
levels
office, shop
type of access (handicap, etc.)

If there is a way to categorize them as residential, non-residential that would 
be perfect.

What do you think? Anything else we should add?


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



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[Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings project with Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

In brief, as we have presented it before, we will launch the project in October 
with an outreach campaign starting in September.
Canadians will be invited to use OSM to provide information about buildings.

We met with a few of you two months ago and we received some very good feedback.
Now, we have moved along in the planning stages.

Some feedback from John and others were given to us that it would be best if as 
many as we can of the footprints be imported in OSM before we invite the public.
We have been talking with the City of Gatineau and the City of Ottawa. We have 
received footprints of buildings from the City of Ottawa.
A file containing about 16 000 large buildings is online on their open data 
portal: http://data.ottawa.ca/en/dataset/large-buildings

We also obtained another file with footprints containing over 300,000 
buildings. This one has buildings not in OSM yet.
We will release it very soon through the open.canada.ca portal. In order to 
import, the data is being made available to everyone but we are also taking a 
look at it internally and will help in bringing those buildings over to OSM.
Importing available data is the first step.

The City of Gatineau will join in the efforts at some points and they will also 
release footprints.

We will launch an outreach campaign in September with a website to invite 
Canadians to participate. We will also have a tool with iD that the public will 
be able to use.
The start of the project will be October.


I will say more later.


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



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[Talk-ca] Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

John and colleagues,
Many thanks for offering your help. We will definitely need it! We are trying 
to develop an efficient way to import municipal open data (building footprint) 
for the municipality of Ottawa and Gatineau. We are in discussion with both 
municipalities and based on OSM previous experience we are try to find an 
effective way for doing this (the previous message of David MacNeil was very 
useful at this regard).
We will definitely ask for your help for this undertaking.

Bjenk and Alessandro

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



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Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hi James,

We are working in partnerships with both municipalities of Ottawa and Gatineau. 
So far, Ottawa has given us two files. One is a large buildings file available 
through their open data portal. It contains about 16 000 building footprints.  
The other is a larger file with over 300 000 buildings in it. That one contains 
footprints that are not on OSM after a quick look through.

John mentioned that the best way to make it available is through the TB open 
data portal so I am going to look into that.

We are talking with Gatineau and they will join the project. I will give 
updates on how this is going.


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



From: James [mailto:james2...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-18-16 4:58 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada


Should be pretty easy on the Gatineau sode as all the address points are there, 
as for Ottawa, not so much until they decide to change their license

On Jul 18, 2016 11:28 AM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Dear members of the Board of Directors,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen. I am working for the Data Exploration and 
Integration Lab at Statistics Canada.

I am writing to inform you that earlier this month, Statistics Canada initiated 
a two-year pilot project aimed at understanding the potential of data 
crowdsourcing for statistical purposes.

We are planning to use OpenStreetMap as a platform for inviting contributors to 
crowdsource information on non-residential buildings (footprints, addresses and 
simple building attributes). The pilot project will focus on the 
Ottawa-Gatineau region.

We have assembled a multi-disciplinary project team, which includes people from 
five divisions of Statistics Canada and also from the municipalities of Ottawa 
and Gatineau.

In November of last year, my chief, Alessandro Alasia, spoke with Paul Norman. 
At that time, we were exploring the idea of crowdsourcing. We have done quite a 
lot of background research and planning since then (although much learning 
remains to be done). The preliminary idea has evolved in a proof of concept 
proposal and, from there, into the current project.

Earlier this month we held a first meeting/conference call with the local 
(Canada/Ottawa) OSM community. We hope to strengthen these ties further in the 
coming months by engaging the OSM community through Talk-ca.

This pilot project is a major innovative undertaking for our Agency. There are 
a multitude of aspects that we need to assess and learn about (including the IT 
dimension, communications,  legal aspects, etc.).

For this reason, there is also a lot of excitement about the project and much 
curiosity from senior management. We know that crowdsourcing is a reality but, 
as far as I know, there has been no other attempt to assess its potential from 
the perspective of a national statistical office.

One of our Assistant Chief Statisticians, in particular, who is championing the 
innovation projects at Statistics Canada, has a keen interest in this project. 
At some point, we would like to have an “institutional” meeting between 
Statistics Canada and OSM (although I am not quite sure in which shape and form 
this can take place). I am open to your suggestions.

I am copying my colleague Bjenk Ellefsen, who is part of our team and who will 
follow-up on most of the communication with the OSM community on Talk-Ca.

I look forward to hearing from you and to engaging the OSM community on this 
project.

I will soon write more about the project!

Regards,



Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004<tel:%28343%29%20998-3004>




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[Talk-ca] New project at Statistics Canada / Nouveau projet à Statistique Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the many feedback. We really look forward to working with the OSM 
community.
As mentioned by some, working with an online community is a new undertaking for 
our agency. There is a lot of learning involved (for us) but we are confident 
we can make a valuable contribution.
There are many aspects that we need to learn about and many new dimensions 
(including legal aspects of data sharing). Some mentioned postal codes, but 
there are many legal aspects that an agency like StatCan needs to take into 
accounts. It is a new territory and, to some extent, we are learning by doing.
You have already identified some of our main challenges: tags, imports of 
municipal open data, data quality, etc.
We are trying to tackle each of them, one at a time. And we want to work with 
you to help follow and develop practices and contribute to OSM data in Canada.
Our pilot will be for Ottawa/Gatineau (for logistic and operational reasons, we 
need to limit our focus). But we would be more than happy to coordinate our 
work with other mappers working on other municipalities.
We will follow up on each item, and with regular updates on the project.
Bjenk and Alessandro
Français:
Nous étions impatients de travailler avec la communauté d'OSM et merci de vos 
commentaires.
Quelques-uns d'entre vous l'ont mentionné, travailler avec une communauté en 
ligne est nouveau pour notre agence. Il y a beaucoup à apprendre pour nous mais 
nous sommes confiants de pouvoir contribuer de façon significative.
Il y a plusieurs aspects sur lesquels nous devons apprendre et plusieurs 
nouvelles choses comme les aspects légaux de l'échange de données. Certaines 
ont mentionné les codes postaux mais il y a plusieurs aspects légaux qu'une 
agence telle que StatCan doit prendre en considération. C'est un nouveau 
territoire et, d'une certaine façon, nous apprenons en le faisant.
Vous avez déjà identifié certains de nos défis principaux : les attributs, 
l'importation de données municipales (données ouvertes), la qualité des 
données, etc.
Nous essayons de rencontrer chacun de ces défis un à un. Nous souhaitons 
travailler avec vous afin de suivre et développer les pratiques et contribuer 
aux données d'OSM au Canada.
Notre projet pilote sera pour Ottawa et Gatineau (nous devons limiter la portée 
pour l'instant pour des raisons de logistiques et opérationnelles). Par contre, 
nous serions intéressés à aider et coordonner les efforts de contributeurs qui 
souhaitent inclure d'autres municipalités.
Nous ferons un suivi et des mises à jour constantes sur le projet.
Bjenk et Alessandro
Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



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[Talk-ca] Nouveau project à Stastique Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Mon nom est Bjenk Ellefsen. Je travaille dans le Laboratoire d'exploration et 
d'intégration des données à Statistique Canada.

Ce message est la version française du message précédent. Je vous écris pour 
vous informer que plus tôt ce mois-ci, Statistique Canada a lancé un projet 
pilote de deux ans qui vise à comprendre le potentiel de l'approche 
participative à la collecte des données à des fins statistiques.

Nous comptons utiliser OpenStreetMap (OSM) comme plateforme pour inviter les 
contributeurs à fournir des renseignements sur des immeubles non résidentiels 
(tracés, adresses et de simples caractéristiques de l'immeuble). Le projet 
pilote se concentrera sur la région d'Ottawa-Gatineau.

Nous avons formé une équipe de projet multidisciplinaire qui réunit des 
personnes provenant de cinq divisions de Statistique Canada et aussi des 
municipalités d'Ottawa et de Gatineau.

En novembre de l'année dernière, mon chef, Alessandro Alasia, a parlé à Paul 
Norman. À ce moment-là, nous explorions l'idée de l'approche participative. 
Nous avons effectué de nombreuses recherches de fond et fait beaucoup de 
planification depuis lors (bien qu'il nous reste encore beaucoup à apprendre). 
L'idée préliminaire a évolué pour devenir une validation de concept et ensuite, 
le projet actuel.

Plus tôt ce mois-ci, nous avons tenu une première réunion/conférence 
téléphonique avec la communauté locale d'OSM. Nous espérons renforcer ces liens 
davantage dans les mois à venir en mobilisant la communauté d'OSM au moyen de 
Talk-ca.

Ce projet pilote est une importante entreprise novatrice pour notre organisme. 
Il existe une multitude d'aspects que nous devons évaluer et étudier (notamment 
le côté informatique, les communications, l'aspect juridique, etc.).

C'est pour cette raison qu'il y a beaucoup d'enthousiasme pour ce projet et 
beaucoup de curiosité de la part de la haute gestion. Nous savons que 
l'approche participative est une réalité, mais, à ce que je sache, il n'y a eu 
aucune tentative d'évaluer son potentiel du point de vue d'un organisme 
national de statistique.

L'une de nos statisticiennes en chef adjointe en particulier, qui est la 
championne des projets d'innovation à Statistique Canada, manifeste un intérêt 
marqué pour ce projet.

Je vais bientôt en écrire davantage sur ce projet afin d'échanger et de 
recevoir vos suggestions!

Cordialement,



Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



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Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Pierre,

Merci de l’information. Je suivrai cette semaine avec plus de détails.

Je trouve l’idée d’informations sur les types d’accès intéressante. Je décrirai 
les informations de bases que Statistique Canada voudrait recueillir et les 
suggestions seront bienvenues !

Bjenk

From: Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr]
Sent: July-18-16 12:47 PM
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Cc: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

Bonjour Bjenk


Les contributeurs de certains pays ont des organisations plus structurées, ce 
qui n'est pas le cas au Canada.


La coordination des contributeurs canadiens se fait via cette liste-ci (ie. 
discussion et coordonnation) et via divers groupes locaux tels Ottawa, Toronto, 
Montréal, Québec, etc.



Le mieux est de présenter vos projets sur la liste et inviter les groupes 
intéressés à vous contacter.


Les contributeurs s'intéressent à diverses problématiques et pourraient par 
exemple vous proposer d'intégrer des informations relatives aux types d'accès 
aux immeubles publics par les handicapés.



Pierre


De : john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>
À : "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
Cc : Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Envoyé le : lundi 18 juillet 2016 12h07
Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

>Board of Directors
I don't think there is such a thing on talk-ca.
Cheerio John

On 18 July 2016 at 11:27, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Dear members of the Board of Directors,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen. I am working for the Data Exploration and 
Integration Lab at Statistics Canada.

I am writing to inform you that earlier this month, Statistics Canada initiated 
a two-year pilot project aimed at understanding the potential of data 
crowdsourcing for statistical purposes.

We are planning to use OpenStreetMap as a platform for inviting contributors to 
crowdsource information on non-residential buildings (footprints, addresses and 
simple building attributes). The pilot project will focus on the 
Ottawa-Gatineau region.

We have assembled a multi-disciplinary project team, which includes people from 
five divisions of Statistics Canada and also from the municipalities of Ottawa 
and Gatineau.

In November of last year, my chief, Alessandro Alasia, spoke with Paul Norman. 
At that time, we were exploring the idea of crowdsourcing. We have done quite a 
lot of background research and planning since then (although much learning 
remains to be done). The preliminary idea has evolved in a proof of concept 
proposal and, from there, into the current project.

Earlier this month we held a first meeting/conference call with the local 
(Canada/Ottawa) OSM community. We hope to strengthen these ties further in the 
coming months by engaging the OSM community through Talk-ca.

This pilot project is a major innovative undertaking for our Agency. There are 
a multitude of aspects that we need to assess and learn about (including the IT 
dimension, communications,  legal aspects, etc.).

For this reason, there is also a lot of excitement about the project and much 
curiosity from senior management. We know that crowdsourcing is a reality but, 
as far as I know, there has been no other attempt to assess its potential from 
the perspective of a national statistical office.

One of our Assistant Chief Statisticians, in particular, who is championing the 
innovation projects at Statistics Canada, has a keen interest in this project. 
At some point, we would like to have an “institutional” meeting between 
Statistics Canada and OSM (although I am not quite sure in which shape and form 
this can take place). I am open to your suggestions.

I am copying my colleague Bjenk Ellefsen, who is part of our team and who will 
follow-up on most of the communication with the OSM community on Talk-Ca.

I look forward to hearing from you and to engaging the OSM community on this 
project.

I will soon write more about the project!

Regards,



Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004




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Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

As noted by John,

The message should have read, dear members of the OSM community!

☺

Bjenk

De : john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>
À : "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
Cc : Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Envoyé le : lundi 18 juillet 2016 12h07
Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

>Board of Directors
I don't think there is such a thing on talk-ca.
Cheerio John

On 18 July 2016 at 11:27, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Dear members of the Board of Directors,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen. I am working for the Data Exploration and 
Integration Lab at Statistics Canada.

I am writing to inform you that earlier this month, Statistics Canada initiated 
a two-year pilot project aimed at understanding the potential of data 
crowdsourcing for statistical purposes.

We are planning to use OpenStreetMap as a platform for inviting contributors to 
crowdsource information on non-residential buildings (footprints, addresses and 
simple building attributes). The pilot project will focus on the 
Ottawa-Gatineau region.

We have assembled a multi-disciplinary project team, which includes people from 
five divisions of Statistics Canada and also from the municipalities of Ottawa 
and Gatineau.

In November of last year, my chief, Alessandro Alasia, spoke with Paul Norman. 
At that time, we were exploring the idea of crowdsourcing. We have done quite a 
lot of background research and planning since then (although much learning 
remains to be done). The preliminary idea has evolved in a proof of concept 
proposal and, from there, into the current project.

Earlier this month we held a first meeting/conference call with the local 
(Canada/Ottawa) OSM community. We hope to strengthen these ties further in the 
coming months by engaging the OSM community through Talk-ca.

This pilot project is a major innovative undertaking for our Agency. There are 
a multitude of aspects that we need to assess and learn about (including the IT 
dimension, communications,  legal aspects, etc.).

For this reason, there is also a lot of excitement about the project and much 
curiosity from senior management. We know that crowdsourcing is a reality but, 
as far as I know, there has been no other attempt to assess its potential from 
the perspective of a national statistical office.

One of our Assistant Chief Statisticians, in particular, who is championing the 
innovation projects at Statistics Canada, has a keen interest in this project. 
At some point, we would like to have an “institutional” meeting between 
Statistics Canada and OSM (although I am not quite sure in which shape and form 
this can take place). I am open to your suggestions.

I am copying my colleague Bjenk Ellefsen, who is part of our team and who will 
follow-up on most of the communication with the OSM community on Talk-Ca.

I look forward to hearing from you and to engaging the OSM community on this 
project.

I will soon write more about the project!

Regards,



Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l’exploration et 
l’intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004




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[Talk-ca] New project with OSM at Statistics Canada

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Dear members of the Board of Directors,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen. I am working for the Data Exploration and 
Integration Lab at Statistics Canada.

I am writing to inform you that earlier this month, Statistics Canada initiated 
a two-year pilot project aimed at understanding the potential of data 
crowdsourcing for statistical purposes.

We are planning to use OpenStreetMap as a platform for inviting contributors to 
crowdsource information on non-residential buildings (footprints, addresses and 
simple building attributes). The pilot project will focus on the 
Ottawa-Gatineau region.

We have assembled a multi-disciplinary project team, which includes people from 
five divisions of Statistics Canada and also from the municipalities of Ottawa 
and Gatineau.

In November of last year, my chief, Alessandro Alasia, spoke with Paul Norman. 
At that time, we were exploring the idea of crowdsourcing. We have done quite a 
lot of background research and planning since then (although much learning 
remains to be done). The preliminary idea has evolved in a proof of concept 
proposal and, from there, into the current project.

Earlier this month we held a first meeting/conference call with the local 
(Canada/Ottawa) OSM community. We hope to strengthen these ties further in the 
coming months by engaging the OSM community through Talk-ca.

This pilot project is a major innovative undertaking for our Agency. There are 
a multitude of aspects that we need to assess and learn about (including the IT 
dimension, communications,  legal aspects, etc.).

For this reason, there is also a lot of excitement about the project and much 
curiosity from senior management. We know that crowdsourcing is a reality but, 
as far as I know, there has been no other attempt to assess its potential from 
the perspective of a national statistical office.

One of our Assistant Chief Statisticians, in particular, who is championing the 
innovation projects at Statistics Canada, has a keen interest in this project. 
At some point, we would like to have an "institutional" meeting between 
Statistics Canada and OSM (although I am not quite sure in which shape and form 
this can take place). I am open to your suggestions.

I am copying my colleague Bjenk Ellefsen, who is part of our team and who will 
follow-up on most of the communication with the OSM community on Talk-Ca.

I look forward to hearing from you and to engaging the OSM community on this 
project.

I will soon write more about the project!

Regards,



Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab pour l'exploration et 
l'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistique Canada
(343) 998-3004



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[Talk-ca] iD editor

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

iD is being actively developed and I saw that it's also going modular.

Does anyone have experience using iD editor for custom projects?


Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Data Exploration and Integration Lab (DEIL) | Lab d'exploration et 
d'intégration de données (LEID)
Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada
(343) 998-3004



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Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

This task was created for testing I believe.

From: Bruno Remy [mailto:bremy.qc...@gmail.com]
Sent: April-24-16 7:20 AM
To: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update



For your information, a specific task hab been created for this purpose:
(Thanks to #hughwei )
#14 - StatCan Non-residential Buildings : http://tasks.osmcanada.ca/project/14
Feel free to involve into this project and happy mapping!
Cheers.

Bruno



2016-04-22 14:28 GMT-04:00 john whelan 
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>:
Since you're looking to combine data from different sources I assume you know 
about the TB standards for addresses?  I think they're mentioned here:  
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=16553
I'm not sure how those standards would map to OSM and if all the elements are 
there.
Apols to the ca-talk this is probably more open data than anything else.

Cheerio John

On 22 April 2016 at 10:52, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Kevin,

We would probably break it down in smaller chunks. We were thinking of a 
possible pilot with specific areas.
A tasking manager would be very helpful in we do it this way.

Bjenk

From: Kevin Farrugia 
[mailto:kevinfarru...@gmail.com<mailto:kevinfarru...@gmail.com>]
Sent: April-21-16 12:00 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
<talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update


Hi Bjenk,

What type of information are you looking to add about buildings? Some data 
belongs in OSM while other attributes might be extraneous. Other people on this 
list will also add their opinion on this issue I'm sure. If it's something 
being done en masse, it's always best to take an abundance of caution to not 
upset people at the errors that might crop up.

If you'd like to break work down into smaller chunks, there are tasking 
managers available (including a Canada specific one) that help out with manual 
tasks.

-Kevin
On Apr 21, 2016 11:37 AM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to collect 
information about non-residential buildings.
We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were thinking of 
identifying specific areas to start with.

Cheers,

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada




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--
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Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Kevin,

We would probably break it down in smaller chunks. We were thinking of a 
possible pilot with specific areas.
A tasking manager would be very helpful in we do it this way.

Bjenk

From: Kevin Farrugia [mailto:kevinfarru...@gmail.com]
Sent: April-21-16 12:00 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update


Hi Bjenk,

What type of information are you looking to add about buildings? Some data 
belongs in OSM while other attributes might be extraneous. Other people on this 
list will also add their opinion on this issue I'm sure. If it's something 
being done en masse, it's always best to take an abundance of caution to not 
upset people at the errors that might crop up.

If you'd like to break work down into smaller chunks, there are tasking 
managers available (including a Canada specific one) that help out with manual 
tasks.

-Kevin
On Apr 21, 2016 11:37 AM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to collect 
information about non-residential buildings.
We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were thinking of 
identifying specific areas to start with.

Cheers,

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada




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[Talk-ca] New project update

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Adam, thank you! You are right, I should have provided more details.

To start with, the data gap in non-residential buildings is that there is no 
comprehensive list even for basic things like counts.
The first goal would be to address that along with basic information about 
these buildings.

The buildings to identify are all the commercial, industrial, government and 
institutional ones in Canada.
 As much as possible the basic information would be:

1. precise location (coordinates, polygon)
2. footprint, size
3. year of construction
4. activities (use)
5. number of floors above ground
6. address (number, street, postal code)

The main objective is to eventually have a national inventory of all these 
buildings.

Bjenk


-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: April-22-16 8:00 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 98, Issue 13

Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: New project update (Adam Martin)
   2. Re: New project update (Martijn van Exel)
   3. Re: New project update (Martijn van Exel)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:19:06 -0230
From: Adam Martin <s.adam.mar...@gmail.com>
To: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update
Message-ID:
<CADqb88un8+=ngw3ea09swa0ji5ajhh+cmsio4rdp-4j9p4c...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Bjenk,

I think what Paul meant was more along the lines of what specifically you
wanted to do. You state that you want to define a project, but other than
stating that you want to collect certain information about non-residential
buildings, we have little else to go on.

>From the sound of it, you want to use OSM to collect and map specific
information about these non-residential buildings. Are we talking about the
number of windows in the building or employees? The number of floors or the
specific businesses / activities carried out in them?

Just give us something more to go on and we can discuss it from there :)

Adam

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <
bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> All this is open for discussion at this point. We are looking at all the
> options.
> By defining a project its more like stating what information we wish to
> focus on.
> We hope to work with the OSM community and we are looking at different
> ways of doing that.
> We also have different data sources that we will be evaluating to
> potentially link to these buildings.
>
> Thanks for your feedback!
>
> Bjenk
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Ramsey [mailto:pram...@cleverelephant.ca]
> Sent: April-21-16 12:26 PM
> To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
> Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update
>
> Hey Bjenk,
> When you say "define a project" are you talking about
>
> (a) describing a scope of work that StatsCan intends to resource and
> complete?
> (b) describing a scope of work that StatsCan hopes the OSM community
> will complete on your behalf?
>
> You've used the passive voice in describing the actual collection in
> your description below, so it's not completely clear who you think
> will be collecting the information.
>
> ATB,
>
> P
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:35 AM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)
> <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to
> collect
> > information about non-residential buildings.
> > We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were
> thinking
> > of identifying specific areas to start with.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD
> >
> > Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur
> les
> > entreprises
> > Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-ca mailing list
> > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> >
> 

[Talk-ca] New project update

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to collect 
information about non-residential buildings.
We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were thinking of 
identifying specific areas to start with.

Cheers,

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada



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Re: [Talk-ca] New Project

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Adam,

Yes, about the data model, it would simply be to suggest what we would like to 
see collected for specific features.
The goal would be to define a project on openstreetmap for Canada, we have a 
pretty good idea of what the project will be.
I will give a summary of what we hope to do with the openstreetmap community 
and your advice would be very helpful.

Bjenk



From: Adam Martin [mailto:s.adam.mar...@gmail.com]
Sent: April-20-16 11:05 AM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New Project

OSM is community driven so you've basically come to the right place to propose 
projects for Canada. If the project proposes some sort of change to the 
structure of OSM itself, it would need to be brought before the Board of the 
Foundation (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation for more 
information on that).
I assume that, being that this is Statistics Canada, changes to the structure 
are not the goal, just some sort of improvement on the map data in Canada. If 
that is the case, give us the summary of what you wish to do and we will 
certainly try to help where possible.
Adam

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
<bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca<mailto:bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen, I work at Statistics Canada.
We are interested in knowing more about putting together a potential project 
with openstreetmap.
I have a couple of questions: who should we talk to? Is there a board or admins 
we should be talking to?
How do we submit a project we would like to invite contributors to participate 
in?
Also, could we define the data model for the collection?

Any insights would be welcomed!

Bjenk Ellefsen


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[Talk-ca] New Project

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Hello everyone,

My name is Bjenk Ellefsen, I work at Statistics Canada.
We are interested in knowing more about putting together a potential project 
with openstreetmap.
I have a couple of questions: who should we talk to? Is there a board or admins 
we should be talking to?
How do we submit a project we would like to invite contributors to participate 
in?
Also, could we define the data model for the collection?

Any insights would be welcomed!

Bjenk Ellefsen

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