Re: [Talk-GB] What's the best way of mapping/tagging...
On 02/04/2011 09:08, Kev js1982 wrote: Cycling to work this week I have come across a more direct way to town, but also a road which I am not sure how to map properly in OSM. At the moment the whole street is mapped as highway=pedestrial with lcn=yes - but in reality it's not that simple. The road used to be the main road into the city centre from Trent Bridge but has now been pedestrianised (the following images might help you understand my comments) Google Street View : http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8ll=52.940734,-1.140834spn=0.003246,0.009645t=hz=17layer=ccbll=52.940734,-1.140834panoid=nqz0Qta4kazDIF3Ok2sN4wcbp=12,324.6,,0,0.8 http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8ll=52.940734,-1.140834spn=0.003246,0.009645t=hz=17layer=ccbll=52.940734,-1.140834panoid=nqz0Qta4kazDIF3Ok2sN4wcbp=12,324.6,,0,0.8 My aerial drawing : http://kjs.me.uk/3rdparty/osm/arkwrightwalk.png First off, going on the streetview, I wouldn't say the road with reddish colouring 'cobblestones' (shown white on your sketch) is pedestrian/cycle exclusive. It appears that vehicles, such as deliveries, are allowed. I think there would be bollards if not. Does the signpost give any clues? Bit unsure about the blue bits. It seems there's no bollards so in theory could a vehicle be allowed to cross it, albeit very slowly. What type of kerbs do these blue areas have. Also if there's no a gap in the wall, how do you cycle through it? Does the LCN have a number? If so tag it, preferably in a relation. General mapping tip: You can go as detailed as you like - if it's physical, you can map it (given time patience). Personally I don't tag pavements that are not separated from the road by grass verge etc. Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Rebooting the NAPTAN import?
On 02/04/2011 15:14, Stuart Grimshaw wrote: This weekend sees Sheffield's first Transport Hackday, hosted at theGistLab[3], we've got a bunch of guys sitting here with various apps we've written or would like to write and one of the projects we identified as a potential target for today would be refreshing the NAPTAN data in OSM. Myself one of the other hackers have been reading the info on the existing import[1] and we've come across a few speed bumps in our efforts. Firstly, the info on the page is about 2 years out of date, so my first question is what is the state of NAPTAN data in OSM? Did the import finish? Secondly, the license mentioned seems out of date, since 2009 the NAPTAN data has been released under the Open Government License which makes using it with OSM much more palatable[2] I've seen the tools available to import NAPTAN data, and now that the license is relaxed, I'd like to propose we kick off the data import again? [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Import [2] http://www.dft.gov.uk/naptan/termsOfUse.htm [3] http://opendata.thegisthub.net/2011/03/transport-hack-day-datasets/ -S Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/stubbs Blog: http://stubblog.wordpress.com My art: http://stuartgrimshaw.imagekind.com Stock Images: http://en.fotolia.com/partner/16775 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb I would suggest the following: a) Do not import any NaPTAN data in areas where imports have already taken place. Experience shows that detailed survey correction of NaPTAN data is not to be undertaken lightly. IIRC about 10% is wrong. The best data are for Hullwhere Chris Hill surveyed the lot. I have done only about 20% of Nottingham's NaPTAN stops and have a similar error rate. Unfortunately processing NaPTAN alongside primary surveying just didnt prove viable, but there are plenty of stops which no longer exist, have moved or dont exist on the ground. b) Check with any mappers in the area before performing an import. There may be good reasons why they have not requested one in the past. c) The best approach would be to host current NaPTAN data in a location where OSM data can be compared then mappers could choose to import it. Having an application which did this would be way more useful than shoehorning NaPTAN data in on its own. d) Bus stops which have disappeared are difficult beasts. Have they been accidentally deleted, or has a mapper actually surveyed a site deleted the stop because it doesn't exist. e) I have literally hundreds of bus stop waypoints which I have never got round to cross-checking against NaPTAN. Others may be in a similar position. You can see this where a NaPTAN stop a previously mapped stop exist close together. An import will either sit in the database gathering dust, or it will impose a substantial workload on local mappers if they want to check it. We dont yet have enough mappers to cross check this kind of imported data in a jiffy. For me the NaPTAN data was most useful for naming roads spotting places which needed a bit of TLC. I use bus stops on the Garmin so I find the data useful, but I would urge extreme caution about importing. Cheers, Jerry Clough ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What's the best way of mapping/tagging...
Sounds like a highway=living_street to me (but highway=pedestrian would be fine) In general you need to tag the characteristics of the whole street if you can. Micro-mapping is a bonus, and you need to be careful not to make it unintelligable to the data user at the whole-street level On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote: Cycling to work this week I have come across a more direct way to town, but also a road which I am not sure how to map properly in OSM. At the moment the whole street is mapped as highway=pedestrial with lcn=yes - but in reality it's not that simple. The road used to be the main road into the city centre from Trent Bridge but has now been pedestrianised (the following images might help you understand my comments) Google Street View : http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8ll=52.940734,-1.140834spn=0.003246,0.009645t=hz=17layer=ccbll=52.940734,-1.140834panoid=nqz0Qta4kazDIF3Ok2sN4wcbp=12,324.6,,0,0.8 My aerial drawing : http://kjs.me.uk/3rdparty/osm/arkwrightwalk.png Basically the existing sidewalks are still in situ and the paving allows you to see where the edges are likely to have been (see the red bars at either side of my image) and then at various places along the road two of the old lanes have been paved over with a raised island of flagstones (see the red blobs in the road) which effectively become an area for the local kids to play football on and also walkway and the remaining two lanes have become a cycle path (the white area) - but every 50 meters or so the islands end on one side of the road and jump to the other-side of the road, and in between the two islands the former four lanes of the road become a raised sleeping policeman for about 5 meters (see the blue boxes) with the ramps not being opposite one another (i.e. the ramp on one side is opposite the pedestrian area on the other). How on earth do I map and tag this street properly? - is it just a case of drawing a road though it with all the kinks being followed and the speed humps being added as usual setting sidewalk=no, then making the pedestrian islands highway=pedestrian, area=yes (with the trees and bollards also mapped) and then adding the sidewalks as two extra walkways running in parrall with links across going across the middle of the sleeping policeman (the sleeping policeman seem to be placed where paths from the sides join the road, presumably to allow pushchairs and wheelchairs to cross easily). Also the main road doesn't appear to have anything explicitly banning motor vehicles either, although I've only seen two along the length of it (both parked) - but the road is obviously laid out to discourage motor vehicle use - should this be mapped in any way (this is a moot point really as the road hits a (currently unmapped) wall before it permits motor vehicles again - need to remember to check next week if there is a gap in that wall to allow pedestrians through. Kev ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What's the best way of mapping/tagging...
Indeed you can't drive through the wall, the signs take you through the shopping precinct. Re the blue area on my map - cobble stone ramps get you on it, much like the foreground but steaper. As mentioned earlier no signs prohibiting motor vehicles, until just before the wall anyway. Living street sounds reasonable, although the sidewalks imply otherwise. As with nearly all the lcns in nottingham, no ref apart of the eventual desinations (the sea of blue, duplicated, signs and half arsed cycle lanes along the routes gives the lcns route away). Kev On 2 Apr 2011 13:25, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 02/04/2011 09:08, Kev js1982 wrote: Cycling to work this week I have come across a more direct way to town, but also a road which I ... http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8ll=52.940734,-1.140834spn=0.003246,0.009645t=hz=17layer=ccbll=52.940734,-1.140834panoid=nqz0Qta4kazDIF3Ok2sN4wcbp=12,324.6,,0,0.8 http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8ll=52.940734,-1.140834spn=0.003246,0.009645t=hz=17layer=ccbll=52.940734,-1.140834panoid=nqz0Qta4kazDIF3Ok2sN4wcbp=12,324.6,,0,0.8 My aerial drawing : http://kjs.me.uk/3rdparty/osm/arkwrightwalk.png First off, going on the streetview, I wouldn't say the road with reddish colouring 'cobblestones' (shown white on your sketch) is pedestrian/cycle exclusive. It appears that vehicles, such as deliveries, are allowed. I think there would be bollards if not. Does the signpost give any clues? Bit unsure about the blue bits. It seems there's no bollards so in theory could a vehicle be allowed to cross it, albeit very slowly. What type of kerbs do these blue areas have. Also if there's no a gap in the wall, how do you cycle through it? Does the LCN have a number? If so tag it, preferably in a relation. General mapping tip: You can go as detailed as you like - if it's physical, you can map it (given time patience). Personally I don't tag pavements that are not separated from the road by grass verge etc. Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] What's the best way of mapping/tagging...
On 02/04/2011 17:32, Richard Mann wrote: Sounds like a highway=living_street to me (but highway=pedestrian would be fine) In general you need to tag the characteristics of the whole street if you can. Micro-mapping is a bonus, and you need to be careful not to make it unintelligable to the data user at the whole-street level On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Kev js1982o...@kevswindells.eu wrote: Cycling to work this week I have come across a more direct way to town, but also a road which I am not sure how to map properly in OSM. At the moment the whole street is mapped as highway=pedestrial with lcn=yes - but in reality it's not that simple. The road used to be the main road into the city centre from Trent Bridge but has now been pedestrianised (the following images might help you understand my comments) Google Street View : http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8ll=52.940734,-1.140834spn=0.003246,0.009645t=hz=17layer=ccbll=52.940734,-1.140834panoid=nqz0Qta4kazDIF3Ok2sN4wcbp=12,324.6,,0,0.8 My aerial drawing : http://kjs.me.uk/3rdparty/osm/arkwrightwalk.png Basically the existing sidewalks are still in situ and the paving allows you to see where the edges are likely to have been (see the red bars at either side of my image) and then at various places along the road two of the old lanes have been paved over with a raised island of flagstones (see the red blobs in the road) which effectively become an area for the local kids to play football on and also walkway and the remaining two lanes have become a cycle path (the white area) - but every 50 meters or so the islands end on one side of the road and jump to the other-side of the road, and in between the two islands the former four lanes of the road become a raised sleeping policeman for about 5 meters (see the blue boxes) with the ramps not being opposite one another (i.e. the ramp on one side is opposite the pedestrian area on the other). How on earth do I map and tag this street properly? - is it just a case of drawing a road though it with all the kinks being followed and the speed humps being added as usual setting sidewalk=no, then making the pedestrian islands highway=pedestrian, area=yes (with the trees and bollards also mapped) and then adding the sidewalks as two extra walkways running in parrall with links across going across the middle of the sleeping policeman (the sleeping policeman seem to be placed where paths from the sides join the road, presumably to allow pushchairs and wheelchairs to cross easily). Also the main road doesn't appear to have anything explicitly banning motor vehicles either, although I've only seen two along the length of it (both parked) - but the road is obviously laid out to discourage motor vehicle use - should this be mapped in any way (this is a moot point really as the road hits a (currently unmapped) wall before it permits motor vehicles again - need to remember to check next week if there is a gap in that wall to allow pedestrians through. Kev ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb We seem to be moving living_street away from what I understood to be it's original intention: i.e., to mark areas with explicit signage as well as a street architecture which does not provide obvious discrimination between pedestrian motor vehicle areas. In which case we will need different tags to pick out 'Home Zones'. These are pretty thin on the ground, but like average speed cameras appear to be popular in Nottingham: at least two exist in the area at Kennington Road Nobel Road. This also diverges from what I understand is the prevalent usage of this tag elsewhere. I'd be pretty happy with Arkwright Walk as highway=pedestrian, which is what it has looked like to me when I've visited it recently. Motor-vehicle access is not straightforward (at least from the London Road side, which is the only bit I've surveyed on the ground). Obviously, that does not take care of the cyclists viewpoint. I'll have to dig out some survey photos, although I tend to keep my camera in my pocket or leave it at home when surveying in The Meadows. In many ways I'm more interested in verifying that this is indeed called Arkwright Walk and not Arkwright Street as claimed by OS Locator. The latter name AFAIK has not applied for 30 years or approximately the last time that Selectadisc had a shop there. Jerry ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Hack weekend
I'd like to attend the hack weekend tomorrow (though not sure yet I'll be able to make it). I have added my name to the wiki page - hopefully the building reception will have the new page and not a printout from Friday? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Hack weekend
Not even sure they were checking it today when I went in! Steve From: Ed Avis [e...@waniasset.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 8:49 PM To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Hack weekend I'd like to attend the hack weekend tomorrow (though not sure yet I'll be able to make it). I have added my name to the wiki page - hopefully the building reception will have the new page and not a printout from Friday? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
