[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Interesting signage
HI all, I noticed today this interesting road signage in Birmingham: http://goo.gl/maps/7HmDu So apparently, according to the city council it is possible to have one-way dead-end streets... I don't think that would pass the validator :). -- Matthijs ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Interesting signage
Yes, I see what you mean. In reality there is an exit, but it's not a public one from the old Bristol Street Motors site (which is a proposed Tesco site now). Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Matthijs Melissen [mailto:i...@matthijsmelissen.nl] Sent: 15 May 2014 18:57 To: talk-gb-westmidlands Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Interesting signage HI all, I noticed today this interesting road signage in Birmingham: http://goo.gl/maps/7HmDu So apparently, according to the city council it is possible to have one-way dead-end streets... I don't think that would pass the validator :). -- Matthijs ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3950/7501 - Release Date: 05/15/14 ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing list. The reason is that I want to learn how other communities work and which problems they have and how they solve them. Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to have streets with two names, at least when they are on the border of two villages. The Belgian community decided to map this as follows: name = name1 - name2 name:left = name1 name:right = name2 An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046 What are your thoughts about this ? regards m On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: There are at least two major streets in the middle of Nottinghamhttp://osm.org/go/eu8Y~fqF2?layers=Nlike this: logically the street does not have a name, the sides of the street have names: - North of the Council House, the S side is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row - South of the Council House, the S side is Poultry, the N side Cheapside (originally Rotten Row) These names originate as locations in the market square, as can be seen by other survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the square is now an open plaza the name of the rows of buildings have been transferred to the thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are even more complex because the shops also have entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council Austin Reed website: all in all a mess. Other places where this occurs include: Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevardhttp://osm.org/go/eu8Y2Tvhr?layers=N, where the W end of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this case I resolved it by tagging the footpath with the Caste Boulevard name. This discrepancy arose because the two roads were merged when the roundabout was built in the 1920s. I recently noticed a case where the Land Registry data for a small new build terrace had been resolved by using the name of the terrace as a building name. Fail. In some towns (Bangor, N. Wales, comes to mind) many houses were built as named terraces with numbers within the terrace. Although Bangor has been relatively recently house-numbered a simple inspection of addresses painted on rubbish bins suggests that the original addresses are still in use. Broadly speaking we should try and do this better than the OS Open Data because it does happen fairly frequently. name:left and name:right can be used even if no-one consumes them at present. It is useful to try and map addresses in such cases, and these are the one case where I am happy to use the associatedStreet relation. This at least enables the correct grouping of entities for the 'street'. Perhaps the challenge is twofold: - Persuading people that streets with addresses might not be named. (The Royal Mail seems generally to adopt a Procrustean solution to force everything to fit PAF). - Working out how to consume such data (mainly for rendering). Jerry On 14 May 2014 10:07, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.comwrote: There's one like that in Oxford (for about 30 metres) - street addresses different on the two sides. For the moment it has name=St Clements Street, alt_name=London Place, and a separate footway with name=London Place (plus a name:note). So my suggestion - draw separate footways, and give them names. Use name/alt_name on the road, or name = one name / other name if both seem equally valid. Richard On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.comwrote: Hello, It's interesting and highlights a few problems local to me, some I had buried my head in the sand temporarily because I don't know how to fix them correctly. My biggest problem when tagging roads is what to name a road when either side of the road is a different street. For instance the analysis highlights Myrtle Grove as missing here: http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/map_browser?bbox=415474,536751,415809,537148referrer=area Myrtle grove is the South side of the road labeled Chestnut Grove and continues around to where the Road is labeled Elm Gardens. Almost all of the streets in the estate are like this, where it is very misleading because opposite sides of the road is a different named street. How should this be mapped, I have steered clear of fixing it because I couldn't find any guidance on how it should be labeled and technically is it even wrong. The actual building footprints I have added the correct addresses to. I use various OS products in my day job and interestingly OSM labels the streets exactly the same as Vectormap Local does, anyone looking at either OS or OSM maps would not be able to find Myrtle Grove. Another street where I have always though was labeled wrong in the village is Roddymoor Road, there is no street
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
Spare a thought for Nieuwstraat/Neustraße on the boundary of NL-Kerkrade and DE-Herzogenrath. It looks like there have been differences in approach between Dutch and German mappers over the years. The Germans say it should be tertiary or secondary, and the Dutch put it back to Primary. Maybe we should extend your idea with highway:left=primary and highway:right=tertiary, rendering in nice stripes :-) This road has name=Nieuwstraat in OSM at the moment, but it also has name:nl and name:de. Maybe it should be renamed Nieuwstraat - Neustraße. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/142964443 Colin On 2014-05-15 09:01, Marc Gemis wrote: Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing list. The reason is that I want to learn how other communities work and which problems they have and how they solve them. Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to have streets with two names, at least when they are on the border of two villages. The Belgian community decided to map this as follows: name = name1 - name2 name:left = name1 name:right = name2 An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046 [1] What are your thoughts about this ? regards m On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: There are at least two major streets in the middle of Nottingham [2] like this: logically the street does not have a name, the sides of the street have names: * North of the Council House, the S side is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row * South of the Council House, the S side is Poultry, the N side Cheapside (originally Rotten Row) These names originate as locations in the market square, as can be seen by other survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the square is now an open plaza the name of the rows of buildings have been transferred to the thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are even more complex because the shops also have entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council Austin Reed website: all in all a mess. Other places where this occurs include: Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevard [3], where the W end of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this case I resolved it by tagging the footpath with the Caste Boulevard name. This discrepancy arose because the two roads were merged when the roundabout was built in the 1920s. I recently noticed a case where the Land Registry data for a small new build terrace had been resolved by using the name of the terrace as a building name. Fail. In some towns (Bangor, N. Wales, comes to mind) many houses were built as named terraces with numbers within the terrace. Although Bangor has been relatively recently house-numbered a simple inspection of addresses painted on rubbish bins suggests that the original addresses are still in use. Broadly speaking we should try and do this better than the OS Open Data because it does happen fairly frequently. name:left and name:right can be used even if no-one consumes them at present. It is useful to try and map addresses in such cases, and these are the one case where I am happy to use the associatedStreet relation. This at least enables the correct grouping of entities for the 'street'. Perhaps the challenge is twofold: * Persuading people that streets with addresses might not be named. (The Royal Mail seems generally to adopt a Procrustean solution to force everything to fit PAF). * Working out how to consume such data (mainly for rendering). Jerry On 14 May 2014 10:07, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com wrote: There's one like that in Oxford (for about 30 metres) - street addresses different on the two sides. For the moment it has name=St Clements Street, alt_name=London Place, and a separate footway with name=London Place (plus a name:note). So my suggestion - draw separate footways, and give them names. Use name/alt_name on the road, or name = one name / other name if both seem equally valid. Richard On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote: Hello, It's interesting and highlights a few problems local to me, some I had buried my head in the sand temporarily because I don't know how to fix them correctly. My biggest problem when tagging roads is what to name a road when either side of the road is a different street. For instance the analysis highlights Myrtle Grove as missing here: http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/map_browser?bbox=415474,536751,415809,537148referrer=area [4] Myrtle grove is the South side of the road labeled Chestnut Grove and continues around to where the Road is labeled Elm Gardens. Almost all of the streets in the estate are
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
Left and right is decided by the direction of the osm-way. Not by east/west/north/south. BTW, in Brussels we have streets with 4 official names : left/right, French/Dutch :-) On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.comwrote: Thank you all for the advice, although it may have confused me all the more with different suggestions. Personally I like Marc's suggestion of using the 2 street names separated by a hyphen. This allows both names to be rendered. Then identifying each street with left and right tags. How do you chose which is which if the road runs East to West? I'm amazed this doesn't crop up constantly, any old terraced streets with a road separating them would have the issue. I can think of about a dozen streets within 1 mile of me where this is the case. I will do some more investigation and look at several different mapped areas to see how they have been tagged, doesn't sound like there is a definitive answer. Regards, Steven On 15 May 2014 08:01, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing list. The reason is that I want to learn how other communities work and which problems they have and how they solve them. Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to have streets with two names, at least when they are on the border of two villages. The Belgian community decided to map this as follows: name = name1 - name2 name:left = name1 name:right = name2 An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046 What are your thoughts about this ? regards m On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: There are at least two major streets in the middle of Nottinghamhttp://osm.org/go/eu8Y~fqF2?layers=Nlike this: logically the street does not have a name, the sides of the street have names: - North of the Council House, the S side is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row - South of the Council House, the S side is Poultry, the N side Cheapside (originally Rotten Row) These names originate as locations in the market square, as can be seen by other survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the square is now an open plaza the name of the rows of buildings have been transferred to the thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are even more complex because the shops also have entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council Austin Reed website: all in all a mess. Other places where this occurs include: Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevardhttp://osm.org/go/eu8Y2Tvhr?layers=N, where the W end of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this case I resolved it by tagging the footpath with the Caste Boulevard name. This discrepancy arose because the two roads were merged when the roundabout was built in the 1920s. I recently noticed a case where the Land Registry data for a small new build terrace had been resolved by using the name of the terrace as a building name. Fail. In some towns (Bangor, N. Wales, comes to mind) many houses were built as named terraces with numbers within the terrace. Although Bangor has been relatively recently house-numbered a simple inspection of addresses painted on rubbish bins suggests that the original addresses are still in use. Broadly speaking we should try and do this better than the OS Open Data because it does happen fairly frequently. name:left and name:right can be used even if no-one consumes them at present. It is useful to try and map addresses in such cases, and these are the one case where I am happy to use the associatedStreet relation. This at least enables the correct grouping of entities for the 'street'. Perhaps the challenge is twofold: - Persuading people that streets with addresses might not be named. (The Royal Mail seems generally to adopt a Procrustean solution to force everything to fit PAF). - Working out how to consume such data (mainly for rendering). Jerry On 14 May 2014 10:07, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.comwrote: There's one like that in Oxford (for about 30 metres) - street addresses different on the two sides. For the moment it has name=St Clements Street, alt_name=London Place, and a separate footway with name=London Place (plus a name:note). So my suggestion - draw separate footways, and give them names. Use name/alt_name on the road, or name = one name / other name if both seem equally valid. Richard On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote: Hello, It's interesting and highlights a few problems local to me, some I had buried my head in the sand temporarily because I don't know how to fix them correctly. My biggest problem when tagging roads is what
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
2014-05-15 8:27 GMT+01:00 Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com: Thank you all for the advice, although it may have confused me all the more with different suggestions. Personally I like Marc's suggestion of using the 2 street names separated by a hyphen. This allows both names to be rendered. Seems OK to me (though I would have chosen slash, but whatever), and we can fondly hope that renderers will one day detect the name:left and name:right tags and render those cleverly when found. Then identifying each street with left and right tags. How do you chose which is which if the road runs East to West? Use the direction of the way, i.e. the direction in which the OSM object was drawn. I'm amazed this doesn't crop up constantly, any old terraced streets with a road separating them would have the issue. I can think of about a dozen streets within 1 mile of me where this is the case. I will do some more investigation and look at several different mapped areas to see how they have been tagged, doesn't sound like there is a definitive answer. When I sometimes encountered it, I solved the problem by putting the different streetnames on the building addresses, and ignoring the issue on the way itself. I wasn't aware of name:left etc! Dan Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing list. The reason is that I want to learn how other communities work and which problems they have and how they solve them. Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to have streets with two names, at least when they are on the border of two villages. The Belgian community decided to map this as follows: name = name1 - name2 name:left = name1 name:right = name2 An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046 What are your thoughts about this ? regards m On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: There are at least two major streets in the middle of Nottingham like this: logically the street does not have a name, the sides of the street have names: North of the Council House, the S side is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row South of the Council House, the S side is Poultry, the N side Cheapside (originally Rotten Row) These names originate as locations in the market square, as can be seen by other survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the square is now an open plaza the name of the rows of buildings have been transferred to the thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are even more complex because the shops also have entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council Austin Reed website: all in all a mess. Other places where this occurs include: Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevard, where the W end of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this case I resolved it by tagging the footpath with the Caste Boulevard name. This discrepancy arose because the two roads were merged when the roundabout was built in the 1920s. I recently noticed a case where the Land Registry data for a small new build terrace had been resolved by using the name of the terrace as a building name. Fail. In some towns (Bangor, N. Wales, comes to mind) many houses were built as named terraces with numbers within the terrace. Although Bangor has been relatively recently house-numbered a simple inspection of addresses painted on rubbish bins suggests that the original addresses are still in use. Broadly speaking we should try and do this better than the OS Open Data because it does happen fairly frequently. name:left and name:right can be used even if no-one consumes them at present. It is useful to try and map addresses in such cases, and these are the one case where I am happy to use the associatedStreet relation. This at least enables the correct grouping of entities for the 'street'. Perhaps the challenge is twofold: Persuading people that streets with addresses might not be named. (The Royal Mail seems generally to adopt a Procrustean solution to force everything to fit PAF). Working out how to consume such data (mainly for rendering). Jerry On 14 May 2014 10:07, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com wrote: There's one like that in Oxford (for about 30 metres) - street addresses different on the two sides. For the moment it has name=St Clements Street, alt_name=London Place, and a separate footway with name=London Place (plus a name:note). So my suggestion - draw separate footways, and give them names. Use name/alt_name on the road, or name = one name / other name if both seem equally valid. Richard On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote: Hello, It's interesting and highlights a few problems local to me,
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
Use the direction of the way, i.e. the direction in which the OSM object was drawn. Sorry in my defense I had just woken up, clearly not fully. I should have thought about the direction of the way. The direction isn't all that obvious if using ID rather than JOSM. When I sometimes encountered it, I solved the problem by putting the different streetnames on the building addresses, and ignoring the issue on the way itself. I wasn't aware of name:left etc! In my original example of Myrtle Grove, I had done the same as you and added addresses to the buildings as is desirable anyway. The problem with this is that when I then do a search for Myrtle Grove, Roddymoor nothing is returned. Nominatim finds nothing. Try this with another street in the village High Terrace, Roddymoor and it will be found because the road is tagged not just the buildings. Yet to confuse things further type try 1 Ivy Crescent, Roddymoor and the house is found yet the road isn't tagged ideally which you could see by typing Ivy Crescent, Roddymoor Other streets like East Terrace, Roddymoor don't return the street because again only the building outlines are tagged. This then lead me to test postcodes which I have added for some of the streets where I knew them. Searching for those doesn't take me to the actual street, which I was surprised about. Even though I tagged them ages ago I had never tried searching postcodes. A search for East Terraces postcode of DL15 9QZ returns nothing other than 1 house seperate from the main street. Even though all of East Terrace have postcodes entered. Maybe I remember now why I paused adding roads and buildings and stuck to footpaths. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 09:46 +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: Left and right is decided by the direction of the osm-way. Not by east/west/north/south. BTW, in Brussels we have streets with 4 official names : left/right, French/Dutch :-) Rather than left/right should we not be using forward/reverse (or is it backwards) as with sidewalk tagging? One question I also have, if a road is reversed does forward/reverse tagging get automatically corrected? Phil (trigpoint) On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote: Thank you all for the advice, although it may have confused me all the more with different suggestions. Personally I like Marc's suggestion of using the 2 street names separated by a hyphen. This allows both names to be rendered. Then identifying each street with left and right tags. How do you chose which is which if the road runs East to West? I'm amazed this doesn't crop up constantly, any old terraced streets with a road separating them would have the issue. I can think of about a dozen streets within 1 mile of me where this is the case. I will do some more investigation and look at several different mapped areas to see how they have been tagged, doesn't sound like there is a definitive answer. Regards, Steven On 15 May 2014 08:01, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing list. The reason is that I want to learn how other communities work and which problems they have and how they solve them. Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to have streets with two names, at least when they are on the border of two villages. The Belgian community decided to map this as follows: name = name1 - name2 name:left = name1 name:right = name2 An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046 What are your thoughts about this ? regards m On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: There are at least two major streets in the middle of Nottingham like this: logically the street does not have a name, the sides of the street have names: * North of the Council House, the S side is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row * South of the Council House, the S side is Poultry, the N side Cheapside (originally Rotten Row) These names originate as locations in the market square, as can be seen by other survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the square is now an open plaza the name of the rows of buildings have been transferred to the thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are even more complex because the shops also have entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council Austin Reed website: all in all a mess. Other places where this occurs include: Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevard, where the W end of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this case I resolved it by tagging the footpath with the Caste Boulevard name. This discrepancy arose because the two roads were merged when the roundabout was built in the 1920s. I recently noticed a case where the Land Registry data for a small new build terrace
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
On 2014-05-15 13:43, Philip Barnes wrote: On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 09:46 +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: Left and right is decided by the direction of the osm-way. Not by east/west/north/south. BTW, in Brussels we have streets with 4 official names : left/right, French/Dutch :-) Rather than left/right should we not be using forward/reverse (or is it backwards) as with sidewalk tagging? No, sidewalks should be tagged as sidewalk=left/sidewalk=right/sidewalk=both etc. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sidewalks Because that is where they are physically located, relative to the direction of the way. So the same should apply to names, ie name:left/name:right Forward or backward is for things which depend on which way you are travelling, ie different speed limits or access restrictions. One question I also have, if a road is reversed does forward/reverse tagging get automatically corrected? That depends on what editor you are using. JOSM does prompt you if you reverse a way with most forward/backward or left/right tags, and asks if you want to change them to the opposite. Though testing now, it seems this doesn't work with name:left/name:right, seems to be a bug. Craig ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Wrongly mapped Lake District ways
Hi I'm not in or near the Lake District but am reasonably familiar with this area. Has anyone approached Sum Wum. Presumably they probably didn't know they were actually editing the map. These all need reverting. I have never reverted anything using JOSM before but am happy to give it a go. The instructions seems to be fairly simple! Regards Dudley Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 07:47:30 +0100 From: bcmo...@ntlworld.com To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Wrongly mapped Lake District ways Hello There, Would someone in/near the Lake District, UK care to check on four recent changesets by Sum Wum namely these :- crinkle crags and pike o blisco draft Closed about 22 hours ago · #22299350 crinkle crags close up Closed 1 day ago · #22288398 langdale map10 Closed 1 day ago · #22288304 Crinkle Crags via Pike o' Blisco Closed 1 day ago · #22287273 They seem to be seriously in error cutting across paths, roads and waterways. Regards Bernard ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
