Re: [Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project: Post Offices

[David Woolley]

On 02/05/18 18:52, ael wrote:

I am confused:-)  How should a Royal mail local delivery office be
tagged? It seems that it is not amenity=post_office. I notice that
I have used post_depot once some time ago, but that doesn't seem to be
in the wiki (or in the presets for josm). Yet I am sure that I got it
from somewhere. Not that it seems very natural.


I'm fairly sure this came up a couple of months ago and the answer was 
amenity=post_depot; operator=Royal Mail.  It's not, in principle, 
different from Hermes or TNT.


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Re: [Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project: Post Offices

[ael]

On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 05:17:56PM +0100, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> We're now one month in to the current Quarterly Project, which aims to
> use some official Post Office Ltd. branch data released under the OGL
> to help improve the mapping of Post Offices in OpenStreetMap.

I am confused :-) How should a Royal mail local delivery office be
tagged? It seems that it is not amenity=post_office. I notice that 
I have used post_depot once some time ago, but that doesn't seem to be
in the wiki (or in the presets for josm). Yet I am sure that I got it
from somewhere. Not that it seems very natural.

I would have thought that this a common situation, so I am a bit bemused
that it doesn't seem to be covered anywhere. Or am I missing
something blindingly obvious?

ael


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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting

[Andy Robinson]

Sorry, will be in Germany.

 

Cheers

Andy

 

From: Brian Prangle [mailto:br...@mappa-mercia.org] 
Sent: 02 May 2018 14:13
To: OSM Group WM
Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting

 

Hi everyone

Just a reminder we are NOT meeting tomorrow but the following Thursday May 
10th. May I suggest Knowle/Dorridge (rail station in Dorridge for those 
arriving by public transport) in Solihull and meetup in the Red Lion Knowle for 
8pm?

Let me know if you're intending to attend

Regards

Brian

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[Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project: Post Offices

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

We're now one month in to the current Quarterly Project, which aims to
use some official Post Office Ltd. branch data released under the OGL
to help improve the mapping of Post Offices in OpenStreetMap.

As you can see from the graph at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/#history there has been a
slow but steady increase in the total number of matched branches
(blue) and a decrease in the number of closed branches removed (red).
There's also been a good start on adding reference numbers to the
existing branches (green) to help verify matches and keep things in
sync with the official data.

There's still a lot to do though. In particular, there are around 3800
branches in the official list that are not currently mapped in OSM,
and around 1000 amenity=post_office objects that correspond to
branches that are probably now closed. How may of these can we survey
and fix in the next two months?

To make life easier, there's a comparison tool at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/progress/ which is currently
updated more-or-less daily. Click through to your postcode area to see
a map showing the discrepancies between OSM and the official list.
Detailed suggestions for mapping actions based on these maps can be
found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postoffice/mapping-notes.html .

One issue that was raised earlier was that since the official branch
data is only updated annually, it will become out of date as branches
open and close. It would therefore be useful to have a way of
suppressing these false positives in the tool. I think the best way to
handle this would be to maintain an "updates" list of newly opened and
recently closed branches, that can be fed in to the tool. I'll have a
look at setting something up shortly.

Best wishes,

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

As long as we're dealing with advisory signs erected by an official body
rather than a vigilante neighborhood busybody, I think the
maxspeed:advisory= tag would be appropriate.

Regards
Adam
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

Just a reminder we are NOT meeting tomorrow but the following Thursday May
10th. May I suggest Knowle/Dorridge (rail station in Dorridge for those
arriving by public transport) in Solihull and meetup in the Red Lion Knowle
for 8pm?

Let me know if you're intending to attend

Regards

Brian
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[David Woolley]

On 02/05/18 13:03, Craig Wallace wrote:
A 20 sign with a green circle is advisory. A 20 sign with a red circle 
is a legal limit.

Some advisory limits are signed as "Slow zone" or similar.


Advisory signs can be put up with no formality.  Legal speed limits 
require a traffic regulation order, with the associated public 
announcements and public consultation periods.  That's the main reason 
you are likely to see advisory signs.


In another thread, on a different forum, this came up for cycle lanes. 
A lot of UK cycle lanes are advisory, meaning cars can park on them with 
impunity, so they are often of limited use.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[SK53]

I think they are popular in Flintshire around schools. I was certainly
somewhat disconcerted by them when I first encountered them.

It occurs to me that it may be worth mapping these because of their obvious
intent to confuse, but only using highway=traffic_sign.

Jerry

On 2 May 2018 at 13:31, Colin Smale  wrote:

> On 2018-05-02 14:03, Craig Wallace wrote:
>
> A 20 sign with a green circle is advisory.
>
>
> Such signs have apparently no legal status whatsoever.
>
> See this FoI request:
> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/20_mph_speed_limit_signs_with_gr
>
> There may be a difference in liability, if you exceed an advised max speed
> and have a crash as a result of that, you have some explaining to do. A
> sign with no legal standing whatsoever surely cannot be used in this
> context.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Colin Smale]

On 2018-05-02 14:03, Craig Wallace wrote:

> A 20 sign with a green circle is advisory.

Such signs have apparently no legal status whatsoever. 

See this FoI request: 
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/20_mph_speed_limit_signs_with_gr 

There may be a difference in liability, if you exceed an advised max
speed and have a crash as a result of that, you have some explaining to
do. A sign with no legal standing whatsoever surely cannot be used in
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Tobias Zwick]

Hey Phil

The quest pin is still in your application's cache. The app downloaded
the quest more than 8 months ago.
In any case, no need to worry. In case you solve a quest that turns out
to be outdated (=there is a conflict with actual data), it will discard
that answer and invalidate the cache of the area. You can manually
invalidate the cache in the settings.

For more information, see here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete/FAQ#How_does_the_app_handle_uploads.3F

Cheers
Tobias

On 02/05/2018 13:58, Philip Barnes wrote:
> Tobias
> A quick question on speedlimit quests in Street Complete. I have
> attached a screenshot of an area showing some missing speed limits.
> 
> The problem is they are mapped, for example Bynner Street
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/48394860
> 
> Cheers Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> -- 
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[Talk-GB] A few too many icons at The Tower of London

[Dave F]

Hi

In the latest OSM-Carto upgrade an icon was added for historic=castle.

Which highlights a bit of a problem with the tagging of The Tower of 
London (1)


The walls are split individually as the turrets have names.

Most of those tags are duplicated with an building=castle.

 I think there should be one historic=castle on the perimeter object 
(2) & have building=castle on any internal structures


This follows the same tagging model as schools etc.

Any better suggestions?

DaveF

(1) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/369139030#map=18/51.50799/-0.07589
(2) https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/370870741








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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Craig Wallace]

On 2018-05-02 11:53, Jez Nicholson wrote:
Oh, this is fun. So, correct me if i'm wrong: a "20 mph zone" doesn't 
have/need repeaters because it is not actually the legal speed limit. 
It is advisory to travel at that speed because traffic calming makes 
it hard not to.


A 20 sign with a green circle is advisory. A 20 sign with a red circle 
is a legal limit.

Some advisory limits are signed as "Slow zone" or similar.

It seems some of the advisory 20mph are now being replaced with legal 
limits.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Philip Barnes]

Single or dual carriageway has nothing to do with restricted access. It is 
whether or not each direction is a different physically separate carriageway. 
The division can be a strip of grass.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 2 May 2018 12:34:56 BST, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>Also,
>
>6. Did you come up with the term "restricted" or is the term actually
>used within the same context as single / dual carriageway in the UK
>legislation? Because, that term is usually used for quite another thing
>in OSM context (restricted access roads). But, as long as the nsl_*
>taggings in themselves are consistent (in that they use the terms from
>the UK legislation), that's fine, I guess. Otherwise, we should perhaps
>look for a more fitting name before I cast it into code.
>
>Tobias
>
>On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
>> I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
>> It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching
>led
>> me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
>> 
>> I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to
>recognise
>> them, which I think is mostly correct.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
>> 
>> I personally tagged restricted roads as 
>maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
>> 
>> All a bit of a mess though.
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

Restricted Road is the correct formal term for roads where the default
30mph limit applies. That said, it is not a term that most people will
recognise (unlike single/dual carriageway).

Adam

On Wed, 2 May 2018, 12:36 Tobias Zwick,  wrote:

> Also,
>
> 6. Did you come up with the term "restricted" or is the term actually
> used within the same context as single / dual carriageway in the UK
> legislation? Because, that term is usually used for quite another thing
> in OSM context (restricted access roads). But, as long as the nsl_*
> taggings in themselves are consistent (in that they use the terms from
> the UK legislation), that's fine, I guess. Otherwise, we should perhaps
> look for a more fitting name before I cast it into code.
>
> Tobias
>
> On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
> > I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
> > It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching led
> > me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
> >
> > I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to recognise
> > them, which I think is mostly correct.
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
> >
> > I personally tagged restricted roads as  maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
> >
> > All a bit of a mess though.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Tobias Zwick]

Also,

6. Did you come up with the term "restricted" or is the term actually
used within the same context as single / dual carriageway in the UK
legislation? Because, that term is usually used for quite another thing
in OSM context (restricted access roads). But, as long as the nsl_*
taggings in themselves are consistent (in that they use the terms from
the UK legislation), that's fine, I guess. Otherwise, we should perhaps
look for a more fitting name before I cast it into code.

Tobias

On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
> I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
> It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching led
> me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
> 
> I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to recognise
> them, which I think is mostly correct.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
> 
> I personally tagged restricted roads as  maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
> 
> All a bit of a mess though.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[David Woolley]

On 02/05/18 12:06, Adam Snape wrote:
Sorry, for clarity, both '20 mph zones' and '20mph limits' are actual 
legal limits, not just advisory. In the former case, the sign on entry 
to the zone coupled with the traffic calming is thought to be enough to 
make drivers aware of the reduced speed required.


The traffic calming does not effectively reduce the speed to 20mph. 
What tends to happen is that vehicles accelerate to about 40mph between 
humps, then slam on the brakes.  It needs to be, and is, a legal limit, 
even though the police will rarely measure and enforce speeds on such roads.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[John Aldridge]

On 02-May-18 11:55, Philip Barnes wrote:



I believe it's DoT policy not to allow 30mph repeaters (at least,
someone told me that).


True for roads with street lighting, but quite common, and required, on 30 mph 
roads with no street lights.


Ah, yes, thank you (both) for the clarification. And, for completeness, 
here's the reference



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/10/made



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/10/part/4/paragraph/2/made


--
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Philip Barnes]

On 2 May 2018 11:53:20 BST, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
>Oh, this is fun. So, correct me if i'm wrong: a "20 mph zone" doesn't
>have/need repeaters because it is not actually the legal speed limit.
>It is
>advisory to travel at that speed because traffic calming makes it hard
>not
>to.

My local town centre has a 20 mph speed limit, but no traffic calming. Although 
its a medieval town so may be narrow street count? 

Phil (trigpoint) 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

A 20 mph zone is a 20mph speed limit area. 20 mph repeater signs are judged
not to be necessary because the traffic calming measures physically limit
the speed of traffic.

A 20 mph limit simply imposed on an existing road without traffic calming
is deemed to require repeaters to differentiate it from a 30mph road.

On Wed, 2 May 2018, 11:54 Jez Nicholson,  wrote:

> Oh, this is fun. So, correct me if i'm wrong: a "20 mph zone" doesn't
> have/need repeaters because it is not actually the legal speed limit. It is
> advisory to travel at that speed because traffic calming makes it hard not
> to.
>
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 at 11:36 Adam Snape  wrote:
>
>> The school lights I'm aware of which refer to a maximum speed are
>> advisory rather than mandatory. The actual legal speed limit remains the
>> same.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Wed, 2 May 2018, 11:17 Brian Prangle,  wrote:
>>
>>> Just to further complicate matters there can also be conditional 20 mph
>>> speed limits on roads passing schools, so they're default 30mph unless the
>>> condition is met when they're 20 mph  - condition is usually flashing
>>> lights during school opening and closing times
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On 1 May 2018 at 20:11, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>>>
 Wow, this now is really helpful information! So good that you are on
 this list, this is exactly the kind of thing I was seeking when posting
 to here!
 Some replies and notes:

 1.
 > It even more common to believe that Restricted Roads are not NSL
 > roads. NSL Restricted Roads are a type of NSL road.

 How does it matter though? What does the keyword "NSL" imply?

 2. Also, what about dual carriageways (nsl_dual) that are lit? Will they
 then also default to 30 mph if there is no explicit sign that indeed one
 can go faster than that?

 3. So, from the document, I understand an "LSL for individual roads"
 would be "maxspeed:type=sign" translated to OSM while "LSL for zones"
 would be "maxspeed:type=GB:zoneXX" translated to OSM.
 I see in "OSM speak", we drop the "LSL" for these, but do not for the
 "NSL" stuff. General question, not directed specifically to you: Isn't
 that inconsistent?

 4. I see you use "UK:something". I think to use "GB:something" has
 somewhat established itself over UK by now, looking at taginfo. (Also,
 the ISO-3166 of United Kingdom is GB)

 5. I see you use "UK:zone_XX" instead of "UK:zoneXX". Also looking at
 taginfo, I think that the latter somewhat established itself over the
 former now: About 100,000 usages of XX:zoneYY, about 34,000 usages of
 XX:zone:YY and about 0 usages of XX:zone_YY

 ---

 By the way, offtopic this:
 Do not assume though that the UK is the only country with unnecesary
 complex maxspeed legislation. Look at this flow-chart created by Minh
 Nguyễn after researching this for Ohio, US: :-D

 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ohio/Map_features#Speed_limits

 Cheers
 Tobias

 On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
 > I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
 > It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching led
 > me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
 >
 > I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to
 recognise
 > them, which I think is mostly correct.
 > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
 >
 > I personally tagged restricted roads as
 maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
 >
 > All a bit of a mess though.
 >
 > Jason
 >
 >
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Philip Barnes]

On 2 May 2018 11:46:35 BST, John Aldridge  wrote:
>On 01-May-18 16:29, Philip Barnes wrote:
>>> And yes, you may have to go back several roads before you see the
>>> speed limit sign. No all local authorities put up the repeater signs
>>> but that doesn't mean that the speed limit stops applying.
>> 
>> And 30mph limits don't need repeaters, for example it is possible to
>pass a 30mph limit outside Glenfield and certainly get several miles
>across the city without seeing another sign.
>
>I believe it's DoT policy not to allow 30mph repeaters (at least, 
>someone told me that).
>
True for roads with street lighting, but quite common, and required, on 30 mph 
roads with no street lights. 

Phil (trigpoint) 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

On Wed, 2 May 2018, 11:47 John Aldridge,  wrote:

> I believe it's DoT policy not to allow 30mph repeaters (at least,
> someone told me that
>

This is correct on street lit where the 30mph limit would apply by default.
30mph repeaters can (and should) be used if a 30mph limit applies elsewhere.

>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Jez Nicholson]

Oh, this is fun. So, correct me if i'm wrong: a "20 mph zone" doesn't
have/need repeaters because it is not actually the legal speed limit. It is
advisory to travel at that speed because traffic calming makes it hard not
to.

On Wed, 2 May 2018 at 11:36 Adam Snape  wrote:

> The school lights I'm aware of which refer to a maximum speed are advisory
> rather than mandatory. The actual legal speed limit remains the same.
>
> Adam
>
> On Wed, 2 May 2018, 11:17 Brian Prangle,  wrote:
>
>> Just to further complicate matters there can also be conditional 20 mph
>> speed limits on roads passing schools, so they're default 30mph unless the
>> condition is met when they're 20 mph  - condition is usually flashing
>> lights during school opening and closing times
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On 1 May 2018 at 20:11, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this now is really helpful information! So good that you are on
>>> this list, this is exactly the kind of thing I was seeking when posting
>>> to here!
>>> Some replies and notes:
>>>
>>> 1.
>>> > It even more common to believe that Restricted Roads are not NSL
>>> > roads. NSL Restricted Roads are a type of NSL road.
>>>
>>> How does it matter though? What does the keyword "NSL" imply?
>>>
>>> 2. Also, what about dual carriageways (nsl_dual) that are lit? Will they
>>> then also default to 30 mph if there is no explicit sign that indeed one
>>> can go faster than that?
>>>
>>> 3. So, from the document, I understand an "LSL for individual roads"
>>> would be "maxspeed:type=sign" translated to OSM while "LSL for zones"
>>> would be "maxspeed:type=GB:zoneXX" translated to OSM.
>>> I see in "OSM speak", we drop the "LSL" for these, but do not for the
>>> "NSL" stuff. General question, not directed specifically to you: Isn't
>>> that inconsistent?
>>>
>>> 4. I see you use "UK:something". I think to use "GB:something" has
>>> somewhat established itself over UK by now, looking at taginfo. (Also,
>>> the ISO-3166 of United Kingdom is GB)
>>>
>>> 5. I see you use "UK:zone_XX" instead of "UK:zoneXX". Also looking at
>>> taginfo, I think that the latter somewhat established itself over the
>>> former now: About 100,000 usages of XX:zoneYY, about 34,000 usages of
>>> XX:zone:YY and about 0 usages of XX:zone_YY
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> By the way, offtopic this:
>>> Do not assume though that the UK is the only country with unnecesary
>>> complex maxspeed legislation. Look at this flow-chart created by Minh
>>> Nguyễn after researching this for Ohio, US: :-D
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ohio/Map_features#Speed_limits
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Tobias
>>>
>>> On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
>>> > I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
>>> > It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching led
>>> > me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
>>> >
>>> > I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to
>>> recognise
>>> > them, which I think is mostly correct.
>>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
>>> >
>>> > I personally tagged restricted roads as
>>> maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
>>> >
>>> > All a bit of a mess though.
>>> >
>>> > Jason
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
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>>> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[John Aldridge]

On 01-May-18 16:29, Philip Barnes wrote:

And yes, you may have to go back several roads before you see the
speed limit sign. No all local authorities put up the repeater signs
but that doesn't mean that the speed limit stops applying.


And 30mph limits don't need repeaters, for example it is possible to pass a 
30mph limit outside Glenfield and certainly get several miles across the city 
without seeing another sign.


I believe it's DoT policy not to allow 30mph repeaters (at least, 
someone told me that).


--
Cheers,
John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Adam Snape]

The school lights I'm aware of which refer to a maximum speed are advisory
rather than mandatory. The actual legal speed limit remains the same.

Adam

On Wed, 2 May 2018, 11:17 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Just to further complicate matters there can also be conditional 20 mph
> speed limits on roads passing schools, so they're default 30mph unless the
> condition is met when they're 20 mph  - condition is usually flashing
> lights during school opening and closing times
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On 1 May 2018 at 20:11, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>
>> Wow, this now is really helpful information! So good that you are on
>> this list, this is exactly the kind of thing I was seeking when posting
>> to here!
>> Some replies and notes:
>>
>> 1.
>> > It even more common to believe that Restricted Roads are not NSL
>> > roads. NSL Restricted Roads are a type of NSL road.
>>
>> How does it matter though? What does the keyword "NSL" imply?
>>
>> 2. Also, what about dual carriageways (nsl_dual) that are lit? Will they
>> then also default to 30 mph if there is no explicit sign that indeed one
>> can go faster than that?
>>
>> 3. So, from the document, I understand an "LSL for individual roads"
>> would be "maxspeed:type=sign" translated to OSM while "LSL for zones"
>> would be "maxspeed:type=GB:zoneXX" translated to OSM.
>> I see in "OSM speak", we drop the "LSL" for these, but do not for the
>> "NSL" stuff. General question, not directed specifically to you: Isn't
>> that inconsistent?
>>
>> 4. I see you use "UK:something". I think to use "GB:something" has
>> somewhat established itself over UK by now, looking at taginfo. (Also,
>> the ISO-3166 of United Kingdom is GB)
>>
>> 5. I see you use "UK:zone_XX" instead of "UK:zoneXX". Also looking at
>> taginfo, I think that the latter somewhat established itself over the
>> former now: About 100,000 usages of XX:zoneYY, about 34,000 usages of
>> XX:zone:YY and about 0 usages of XX:zone_YY
>>
>> ---
>>
>> By the way, offtopic this:
>> Do not assume though that the UK is the only country with unnecesary
>> complex maxspeed legislation. Look at this flow-chart created by Minh
>> Nguyễn after researching this for Ohio, US: :-D
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ohio/Map_features#Speed_limits
>>
>> Cheers
>> Tobias
>>
>> On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
>> > I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
>> > It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching led
>> > me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
>> >
>> > I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to recognise
>> > them, which I think is mostly correct.
>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
>> >
>> > I personally tagged restricted roads as  maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
>> >
>> > All a bit of a mess though.
>> >
>> > Jason
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-GB mailing list
>> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> >
>>
>>
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Implicit speed limits: What to tag in built-up areas?

[Brian Prangle]

Just to further complicate matters there can also be conditional 20 mph
speed limits on roads passing schools, so they're default 30mph unless the
condition is met when they're 20 mph  - condition is usually flashing
lights during school opening and closing times

Regards

Brian

On 1 May 2018 at 20:11, Tobias Zwick  wrote:

> Wow, this now is really helpful information! So good that you are on
> this list, this is exactly the kind of thing I was seeking when posting
> to here!
> Some replies and notes:
>
> 1.
> > It even more common to believe that Restricted Roads are not NSL
> > roads. NSL Restricted Roads are a type of NSL road.
>
> How does it matter though? What does the keyword "NSL" imply?
>
> 2. Also, what about dual carriageways (nsl_dual) that are lit? Will they
> then also default to 30 mph if there is no explicit sign that indeed one
> can go faster than that?
>
> 3. So, from the document, I understand an "LSL for individual roads"
> would be "maxspeed:type=sign" translated to OSM while "LSL for zones"
> would be "maxspeed:type=GB:zoneXX" translated to OSM.
> I see in "OSM speak", we drop the "LSL" for these, but do not for the
> "NSL" stuff. General question, not directed specifically to you: Isn't
> that inconsistent?
>
> 4. I see you use "UK:something". I think to use "GB:something" has
> somewhat established itself over UK by now, looking at taginfo. (Also,
> the ISO-3166 of United Kingdom is GB)
>
> 5. I see you use "UK:zone_XX" instead of "UK:zoneXX". Also looking at
> taginfo, I think that the latter somewhat established itself over the
> former now: About 100,000 usages of XX:zoneYY, about 34,000 usages of
> XX:zone:YY and about 0 usages of XX:zone_YY
>
> ---
>
> By the way, offtopic this:
> Do not assume though that the UK is the only country with unnecesary
> complex maxspeed legislation. Look at this flow-chart created by Minh
> Nguyễn after researching this for Ohio, US: :-D
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ohio/Map_features#Speed_limits
>
> Cheers
> Tobias
>
> On 01/05/2018 20:19, Jason Cunningham wrote:
> > I had a bit of an interest in tagging speed limits a few years back.
> > It's way more complicated than it should be in the UK. Researching led
> > me down a bit of a rabbit hole of legislation & case law.
> >
> > I made the following personal notes about UK limits and how to recognise
> > them, which I think is mostly correct.
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Jamicu/UK_Speed_Limits
> >
> > I personally tagged restricted roads as  maxspeed:type=UK:nsl_restricted
> >
> > All a bit of a mess though.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >
>
>
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