Re: [Talk-GB] OS Map Rules

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 23:38, Andrew J  wrote:
> I was thinking of using a paper OS map to identify public footpaths
> which are not currently on OSM, and use it to plan and navigate (map and
> compass) a route along those paths.
>
> If I get a GPS trace (e.g. with OSMTracker) while I walk that route, is
> it acceptable to use this GPS data to update OSM, or would it be
> considered a derivative of OS data?

It depends on exactly what you do. If you're slavishly following the
line on the OSM map and collecting a GPS trace of that line, then all
you're really doing is copying (in a somewhat roundabout way) the
coordinates of points along OS's line into OSM, and I think that would
violate OS's copyright. On the other hand if you use the OS map to
determine that there's a Right of Way that needs mapping in a certain
locality, and then collect a GPS trace by following signs and trodden
paths on the ground, that would be fine.

Depending on which part of the country you're in, there might already
be an open dataset of Rights of Way that you can use, which isn't
encumbered by OS's copyright. See the list I maintain at
https://osm.mathmos.net/prow/open-data/ . In theory, Freedom of
Information legislation means any currently-non-available datasets can
be obtained. It can take a bit of effort to do this, but I'm happy to
oblige if someone wants the data opened up for use in OSM.

Best wishes,

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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[Talk-GB] OS Map Rules

[Rob Nickerson]

Doing so would be fine. Just look out for the signs which tell you which
type of public right of way it is* rather than copying that detail from OS.

* applicable if you are intending to add the designation=public_footpath
(and similar for bridleway etc) tags.

Best regards and happy mapping
Rob
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[Talk-GB] OS Map Rules

[Andrew J]

Hi all,

I signed up to this list because I have a question which I couldn't find
explicitly answered online - apologies if I've got some of the etiquette
wrong.

I was thinking of using a paper OS map to identify public footpaths
which are not currently on OSM, and use it to plan and navigate (map and
compass) a route along those paths.

If I get a GPS trace (e.g. with OSMTracker) while I walk that route, is
it acceptable to use this GPS data to update OSM, or would it be
considered a derivative of OS data?

Kind regards,
Andrew
Soon-to-be contributor (hopefully)

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Meeting in Birmingham on Thursday

[Eike Ritter via Talk-gb-westmidlands]

Dear Rob,

> 
> Now that the clocks have changed we will revert back to Birmingham city
> centre for our monthly meetups. Normally the first Thursday of each
> month - so Thursday this week.
> 
> I understand that The Bull on Price Street is now run by the same people
> who run The Wellington. Are we sticking with that for the first meeting
> or would you like to try somewhere else?
> 
I'll be coming, and I propose to try the Bull for the first meeting, and
then see what it is like.

Best wishes,

Eike
> See you soon,
> *Rob*
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans & OSM

[Edward Bainton]

> as I understand it Sustrans near Derby changed their mapping to match
what was in OSM

So that is now in their GIS and so on OS and so OS needs to acknowledge OSM
at osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn?

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 18:29, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 04/11/2019 18:19, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> (much snippage)
>
> Sustrans appear to have moved the NCN routes off their own site altogether
> (perhaps not news to you), and link directly to
> osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn. The behaviour is pretty horrible - eg,
> can't cope with more than one NCN/LCN route on a given stretch of road,
> which the OpenCycleMap layer does very nicely. OTOH there's a link to a
> route description and to buy the Sustrans paper map. I've no experience of
> these.
>
> Just to throw in a local anecdote as an aside, as I understand it Sustrans
> near Derby changed their mapping to match what was in OSM because (a) what
> we had was a better representation of the signage on the ground and (b) it
> was a better route for cyclists!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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[Talk-GB] OSM Community Index

[Jez Nicholson]

I noticed that after editing something in iD that it gives you a number of
suggestions as to how you might join in with the community. Got me to
wondering where that information came from. Well, it is in the
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Community_Index (I just created
this wiki page about it..which is why the formatting isn't great) and it
can be updated by mere mortals. In fact, this mere mortal did so and
updated the UK details which have just gone live with the new release of iD.

See also https://openstreetmap.community for a visualisation.

If you think it should say something else/additional/differently then you
could either edit the source  and issue a pull request and/or create an
issue.

if you want to discuss this amongst ourselves first, then it could be done
on the OSMUK fork https://github.com/osm-uk/

- Jez
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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans & OSM

[Andy Townsend]

On 04/11/2019 18:19, Edward Bainton wrote:

(much snippage)
Sustrans appear to have moved the NCN routes off their own site 
altogether (perhaps not news to you), and link directly to 
osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn 
. The behaviour is pretty 
horrible - eg, can't cope with more than one NCN/LCN route on a given 
stretch of road, which the OpenCycleMap layer does very nicely. OTOH 
there's a link to a route description and to buy the Sustrans paper 
map. I've no experience of these.


Just to throw in a local anecdote as an aside, as I understand it 
Sustrans near Derby changed their mapping to match what was in OSM 
because (a) what we had was a better representation of the signage on 
the ground and (b) it was a better route for cyclists!


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans & OSM

[Edward Bainton]

Hi Dave F

>From my own hour-long chat with a local volunteer manager I inferred two
reasons for steering clear of OSM:
- Unreliable, as you inferred.
- Exposes Sustrans to risk. I wonder if that may be their response to
anything they don't closely control.

I asked whether there was an agreement with OS and was told they have an
agreement to have the NCN listed as a layer on OS mapping (see here
).
"If you want to use their more detailed mapping you pay a subscription but
the NCN is mapped just the same."

Who knows if this is a financial agreement, and if so in which direction
the money flows. I'll keep plugging away at that one. (By the by, this may
possibly be connected with Sustrans' recent move to ArcGiS?)

Sustrans appear to have moved the NCN routes off their own site altogether
(perhaps not news to you), and link directly to
osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ncn. The behaviour is pretty horrible - eg,
can't cope with more than one NCN/LCN route on a given stretch of road,
which the OpenCycleMap layer does very nicely. OTOH there's a link to a
route description and to buy the Sustrans paper map. I've no experience of
these.

I'm sure I'll revert to this topic soon enough. Meanwhile any further
comments gladly received.

Edward

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 12:06, Dave F via Talk-GB 
wrote:

> (Could you please ensure replies are sent to the forum. Thanks)
>
> Roughly upto around 3-4 years ago, which is why I'm uncertain if a
> sponsorship arrangement is in place.
>
> DaveF
>
> On 10/10/2019 07:41, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > Thanks for that.
> >
> > I will ask re any formal sponsorship etc
> >
> > May I ask how long ago it is that you were in discussion with them?
> > On 10 Oct 2019 00:26, "Dave F via Talk-GB" 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've had the occasional limited discussions on social media. Arguments
> >> against using OSM fall into
> >>
> >> 1. Claim of no cost to use OS data as it's via local authority
> licensing.
> >> Unsure if it's all LAs
> >> 2. They "wanted to use mapping that had 100% reliable data for the users
> >> benefit."
> >> 3. Mild resentment at being informed they may not be using the best
> >> solution.
> >>
> >> Can you check if they have a sponsorship agreement with OS?
> >>
> >> DaveF
> >>
> >> On 09/10/2019 17:31, Edward Bainton wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all
> >>
> >> I'm meeting the local Sustrans office next week as they've asked me to
> >> compile a 'map' of the NCN mileposts in my area (I think they really
> mean
> >> an inventory with locator maps).
> >>
> >> Obviously I'll be using OSM, and trying to get them to see the benefits
> of
> >> doing the same. OSM seems to be largely unknown in the local office.
> >>
> >> 1. Does anyone know *any history of engaging with Sustrans*, to inform
> my
> >> lobbying?
> >> There's mention on the wiki<
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_National_Cycle_Network#Tagging_information>
> <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_National_Cycle_Network#Tagging_information
> >
> >> of
> >> them making milepost locations available for mapping - but that's a long
> >> time ago now.
> >>
> >> 2. Here's a sample page<
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3d686qnu77t0mz/Millennium%20milepost%20Compilation.doc.pdf?dl=0>
> <
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3d686qnu77t0mz/Millennium%20milepost%20Compilation.doc.pdf?dl=0
> >
> >> of what they sent me as a precedent.
> >> *Any suggestions for how to leverage OSM's capabilities to improve it?*
> >> I ask as a non-techie. My own thoughts: put it online & wikify; 'live'
> >> locator maps updating as OSM changes; filterable by NCN route.
> >>
> >> Thanks as ever
> >>
> >> Edward / eteb3
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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