Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Shaun McDonald]

Hi Brian,

Unfortunately due to a combination of proprietary code, and linking of the code 
with some of other systems, releasing the code isn’t possible.

Shaun

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 13:18, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> 
> Hi Shaun
> 
> Would it be possible for itoworld to let us ( the UK chapter) have the source 
> code for the road names feature - we're keen to replicate it using the new 
> source of OS road names from OS Open Roads and we're hoping that other than 
> dealing with a new datasource the comparison logic and rendering backend 
> could be re-used. It might lessen the development effort and it might be 
> easier to get some volunteers.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:51, Shaun McDonald  > wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:26, SK53 > > wrote:
>> 
>> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed 
>> the name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL Musical 
>> Chairs . Both suffer 
>> because OS Locator was last released in 2016.
> 
> The OS Locator data having last been released in 2016, with no plans to 
> update to the OS Open Roads mentioned below, and the majority of the UK 
> having street names. Combined with no new streets ever going to come up, and 
> demolished/removed street names needing to have the not:name forever more, a 
> hardware failure, were all contributory factors for the service being 
> discontinued.
> 
>> 
>> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These are 
>> big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something like 
>> ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD, 
>> Potlatch and as a standard layer in JOSM. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:30, Jez Nicholson > > wrote:
>> 
>> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM and 
>> highlighted the differences.
>> 
>> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed 
>> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and 
>> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have 
>> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
>> 
>> I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it 
>> being built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.
>> 
> 
> We at Ito are also hopeful that the community would implement new more up to 
> date tools with a more modern look.
> 
> Shaun McDonald
> Ito World
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb 
> 
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Brian Prangle]

Hi Shaun

Would it be possible for itoworld to let us ( the UK chapter) have the
source code for the road names feature - we're keen to replicate it using
the new source of OS road names from OS Open Roads and we're hoping that
other than dealing with a new datasource the comparison logic and rendering
backend could be re-used. It might lessen the development effort and it
might be easier to get some volunteers.

Regards

Brian

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:51, Shaun McDonald 
wrote:

>
>
> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:26, SK53  wrote:
>
> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed
> the name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL
> Musical Chairs .
> Both suffer because OS Locator was last released in 2016.
>
>
> The OS Locator data having last been released in 2016, with no plans to
> update to the OS Open Roads mentioned below, and the majority of the UK
> having street names. Combined with no new streets ever going to come up,
> and demolished/removed street names needing to have the not:name forever
> more, a hardware failure, were all contributory factors for the service
> being discontinued.
>
>
> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These
> are big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something
> like ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD,
> Potlatch and as a standard layer in JOSM.
>
>
>
>
> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:30, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
>
> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM
> and highlighted the differences.
>
> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed
> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and
> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have
> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
>
> I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it
> being built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.
>
>
> We at Ito are also hopeful that the community would implement new more up
> to date tools with a more modern look.
>
> Shaun McDonald
> Ito World
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[SK53]

The Ordnance Survey (OSGB) is the national mapping agency, the Open Roads
data set is produced from data which are created as part of their main
mission, so there should be no 3rd party rights. Furthermore, the recent
77m judgement changes this landscape a little from the OSMF statement, in
that explicit statement of which 3rd party has rights and over which parts
of the data is to be expected. In other words if the licence suggests to a
reasonable person that they can use the data, then they can. I might ask
the LWG to update the text.

AFAIK the only OS dataset which may contain third-party data are the
postcodes, and the licence conditions for this were liberalised from their
original form.

OSMF, in the person of Mike Collinson, had extensive discussions with the
Ordnance Survey about licence conditions prior to the ODbL change.
Subsequent OSGB data has tended to be released under pure OGL rather than
the OSGB-specific version which removed some of the problems.

In general, OSM, and specifically the UK community have reasonable links
with OSGB. Their innovation centre hosted a hack weekend
 in 2015
and we variously meet at events like OpenDataCamp, GISrUK, Geomob etc. I
certainly have informal discussions with OS staff which often relate to
what kind of data both organisations collect.

In addition, I'm very familiar with openaddress.co.uk and the reasons why
it didn't carry on. The 3rd party data issue was only part of the story.

Equally, the UK community have always been relatively conservative in using
OSGB and other open data. When the open data were first released roughly
1-2% of street names had errors ranging from being completely wrong to
minor spelling issues: this was one reason why not:name was so important.
If I add names from OSGB data I usually check to see if I can find support
for that name in another open data source (not difficult, we have around
70% coverage of postcodes in open data according to Will Phillips). When OS
Locator came out I visited the locations of the missing names.

Broadly speaking we have a decent awareness of these issues going back a
number of years (see licence discussion at SotM '07). Don't forget that
OSMs genesis was, in part, because of OSGB's onerous licence terms in 2004.
Several early OSMers in the UK were behind the FreethePostcode
 site.

Regards,

Jerry

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 11:06, Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
>
>
> 28 Nov 2019, 11:30 by jez.nichol...@gmail.com:
>
> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM
> and highlighted the differences.
>
> Just to check: was it containing any third-party data where
> "the licence explicitly excludes rights in third party data and therefore
> you
> need to take the same steps as you would for CC0 licenced material. "
> would cause it to become unsuitable for OSM use?
>
> See
>
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_Compatibility#Open_Government_Licence_.28OGL.29_based_licences
>
> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed
> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and
> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have
> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
>
> StreetComplete would suffer from the same issue, though there is some
> benefit from tagging noname=yes
>
> I'd like to see a new tool be built
>
> Sounds like something doable, but for me it goes onto a big pile of "nice
> idea, not enough free time"
> for now.
>
> Also, licence issue would need to be confirmed to be not existing (has
> somebody did a review
> who makes this data? Is there even any third party data there?)
>
> i'd also like someone to fund it being built and sustain it either through
> a grant or donated work.
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Mateusz Konieczny]

28 Nov 2019, 11:30 by jez.nichol...@gmail.com:

> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM and 
> highlighted the differences.
>
Just to check: was it containing any third-party data where 
"the licence explicitly excludes rights in third party data and therefore you 
need to take the same steps as you would for CC0 licenced material. "
would cause it to become unsuitable for OSM use?

See
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_Compatibility#Open_Government_Licence_.28OGL.29_based_licences

> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed 
> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and 
> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have 
> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
>
StreetComplete would suffer from the same issue, though there is some benefit 
from tagging noname=yes

> I'd like to see a new tool be built
>
Sounds like something doable, but for me it goes onto a big pile of "nice idea, 
not enough free time"
for now. 

Also, licence issue would need to be confirmed to be not existing (has somebody 
did a review
who makes this data? Is there even any third party data there?)

> i'd also like someone to fund it being built and sustain it either through a 
> grant or donated work.
>

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:26, SK53  wrote:
> 
> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed the 
> name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL Musical 
> Chairs . Both suffer 
> because OS Locator was last released in 2016.

The OS Locator data having last been released in 2016, with no plans to update 
to the OS Open Roads mentioned below, and the majority of the UK having street 
names. Combined with no new streets ever going to come up, and 
demolished/removed street names needing to have the not:name forever more, a 
hardware failure, were all contributory factors for the service being 
discontinued.

> 
> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These are 
> big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something like 
> ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD, Potlatch 
> and as a standard layer in JOSM. 



> On 28 Nov 2019, at 10:30, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
> 
> As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM and 
> highlighted the differences.
> 
> The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed 
> streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and 
> some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have 
> road names yet and auxiliary service roads.
> 
> I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it being 
> built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.
> 

We at Ito are also hopeful that the community would implement new more up to 
date tools with a more modern look.

Shaun McDonald
Ito World___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Jez Nicholson]

As Jerry says, the key feature was that it compared OS road names to OSM
and highlighted the differences.

The Microsoft Open Data Team recently analysed
streets-with-no-name-but-lots-of-houses which threw up positive hits, and
some potentially false positives of new housing estates which do not have
road names yet and auxiliary service roads.

I'd like to see a new tool be builti'd also like someone to fund it
being built and sustain it either through a grant or donated work.

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 10:28 AM SK53  wrote:

> The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed
> the name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL
> Musical Chairs .
> Both suffer because OS Locator was last released in 2016.
>
> One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These
> are big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something
> like ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD,
> Potlatch and as a standard layer in JOSM.
>
> A more elaborate approach is to grab the OSM roads in an area (e.g., with
> an Overpass Turbo query), pull them in to QGIS, buffer by 25 m & use the
> buffered layer to find any roads in OS Open Road which are outside the
> buffered area. This in turn can be saved in a form for use as a custom
> layer in editors. With JOSM & Potlatch 2 (I think) you can use this as the
> basis of a to do list to check each missing road.
>
> Obviously webhosted layers would be more convenient for the average mapper.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:02, Paul Berry  wrote:
>
>> >  Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
>> their analysis tools for the missing road names?
>>
>> http://qa.poole.ch/ is your friend and guide.
>>
>> Regards,
>> *Paul*
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 21:12, Guy Collins via Talk-GB <
>> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Apologies if this has already been announced. ITO! World have stopped
>>> supporting their very helpful set of OpenStreetMap tools. Please see the
>>> announcement here:
>>> https://www.itoworld.com/ito-openstreetmap-tools-announcement/
>>>
>>> Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
>>> their analysis tools for the missing road names? Their tools also
>>> highlighted road coverage by local authority which was helpful.
>>>
>>> Guy
>>> ___
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[SK53]

The big difference of the old Locator layer from ITO is that it displayed
the name. The other tool which used OS locator is Robert Scott's OSL
Musical Chairs .
Both suffer because OS Locator was last released in 2016.

One way to get potentially missing names is to use OS Open Roads. These are
big shape files, so its probably best to cut them down using something like
ogr2ogr, or QGIS. The file can be pulled in as a custom layer in iD,
Potlatch and as a standard layer in JOSM.

A more elaborate approach is to grab the OSM roads in an area (e.g., with
an Overpass Turbo query), pull them in to QGIS, buffer by 25 m & use the
buffered layer to find any roads in OS Open Road which are outside the
buffered area. This in turn can be saved in a form for use as a custom
layer in editors. With JOSM & Potlatch 2 (I think) you can use this as the
basis of a to do list to check each missing road.

Obviously webhosted layers would be more convenient for the average mapper.

Jerry



On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 10:02, Paul Berry  wrote:

> >  Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
> their analysis tools for the missing road names?
>
> http://qa.poole.ch/ is your friend and guide.
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 21:12, Guy Collins via Talk-GB <
> talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Apologies if this has already been announced. ITO! World have stopped
>> supporting their very helpful set of OpenStreetMap tools. Please see the
>> announcement here:
>> https://www.itoworld.com/ito-openstreetmap-tools-announcement/
>>
>> Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
>> their analysis tools for the missing road names? Their tools also
>> highlighted road coverage by local authority which was helpful.
>>
>> Guy
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Paul Berry]

>  Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
their analysis tools for the missing road names?

http://qa.poole.ch/ is your friend and guide.

Regards,
*Paul*

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 21:12, Guy Collins via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Apologies if this has already been announced. ITO! World have stopped
> supporting their very helpful set of OpenStreetMap tools. Please see the
> announcement here:
> https://www.itoworld.com/ito-openstreetmap-tools-announcement/
>
> Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces
> their analysis tools for the missing road names? Their tools also
> highlighted road coverage by local authority which was helpful.
>
> Guy
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] ITO! World Tools

[Mateusz Konieczny]

27 Nov 2019, 22:10 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:

> Apologies if this has already been announced. ITO! World have stopped 
> supporting their very helpful set of OpenStreetMap tools. Please see the 
> announcement here: > 
> https://www.itoworld.com/ito-openstreetmap-tools-announcement/>  
>
> Does anyone know the best, or suitable alternative, tool that replaces their 
> analysis tools for the missing road names? Their tools also highlighted road 
> coverage by local authority which was helpful.
>
How tool for missing road names worked?

How it was used?___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb