Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La question des produits locaux (alimentation mais sans doute de manière plus large également)

[Christian Quest]

Le 11/12/2020 à 13:48, Vivien MICHON a écrit :

Bonjour Marc,

Super sujet le localisme, ça me plait ^^

Pour les lieux qui proposent du 100% localisme ou du X% localisme, peut-être 
prévoir de mettre en valeur ceux qui font du 100%?

Pour la définition, on touche à une acception qui va varier selon les groupes sociaux... Il semble 
difficile de s'accorder. Je propose de repartir de la définition proposée par Wikipédia 
(https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localisme) dans laquelle l'échelle retenue pour indiquer une origine 
comme "locale" s'appuie sur des éléments concrets: "favorise la démocratie 
participative, la cohésion sociale et l'économie de proximité, donc l'emploi local et la 
préservation de l'environnement via une moindre empreinte écologique liée au transport de personnes 
et de marchandises".

Reste toujours une part d'interprétation...
Pour sûr, le localisme ne peut pas inclure un produit qui fait 20 fois le tour 
du monde avant d'être proposé au consommateur.
A distinguer au passage de la notion de circuit-court, qui elle ne fait pas 
référence à une proximité géographique.
Il y a une attention à porter à la distance parcourue par la marchandise, avec 
le coût écologique, il me semble. Mais... le chiffrage et l'estimation d'un 
seuil d'acceptabilité n'existent pas vraiment non?

Bref, dispo pour en parler oui.
Vivien



On peut calquer sur organic=* qui (de mémoire) prévoit yes/no/only

Un BioCoop sera "only" car on n'y trouve que du bio (ou quasiment).

Une boulangerie qui a entre autre du pain bio mais pas que aura un 
organic=yes et une qui n'en a pas du tout organic=no


C'est simple et efficace, non ?


Après les critères pour définir qu'un produit est local (ce devrait 
logiquement être essentiellement la distance), c'est une toute autre 
question, et je ne pense pas que ce soit à OSM d'y répondre (comme ce 
n'est pas OSM qui définit ce qui est bio ou pas). Il faudrait pour cela 
trouver un consensus déjà existant sur le sujet...



--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [Talk-dk] 2 minus 1 vej

[Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk]

Det du beskriver og viser der er traffic_calming=* og har ikke noget at 
gøre med hvilken vejtype vi taler om her. De angives separat, uanset 
vejens bredde i øvrigt.


On 2020-12-11 13:26, sfro...@gmail.com wrote:
På en 2-minus-1 som jeg af og til kører på understreger nogle sæt 
pullerter ved den brudte kantstribe at vejen skal ses som "smal". 
Modkørende biler kan altså være nødt til at holde tilbage for at kunne 
passere. Pullerterne kan måske kaldes for små stumper kantsten, stod 
der ikke da vejen først blev malet som 2-minus-1 vej, og fremgår pt 
ikke af Mapillary eller Google streetview. Asfaltbredden er altså 
uegnet til ruteplanlægning, og uden at have nærstuderet regler tvivler 
jeg også derudover på at det vil være ok at ruteplanlægge efter 
asfaltbredden i stedet for den ene gennemførte kørebane der er. 
Alternativt kunne vejbredden gøres smallere ved pullerterne. Fandt et 
delvis lignende eksempel 
 
på Google streetview, hvor det dog samtidig er et moderat vejbump.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag adéquat pour nommer les maisons basques

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 11/12/2020 à 23:03, Brice - brice...@free.fr a écrit :


Je ne comprends pas bien la différence que tu fais entre un nom
d'adresse et un nom de bâtiment


La différence est simple si tu écris à :

Madame Michu
Ma Maison
3 rue de la Mairie

addr:housename=Ma Maison

Et si tu écris à :

Madame Michu
3 rue de la Mairie

name=Ma Maison

Je ne connais pas l'usage au Pays Basque.

Jean-Yvon



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag adéquat pour nommer les maisons basques

[Brice]

Bonsoir,
Le 07/12/2020 à 10:45, Marc_marc a écrit :


3/ addr:housename


c'est souvent erronée.
addr: dit que cela concerne l'adressage postal, et non le batiment.
dans certains pays, on n'utilise pas de addr:housenumber mais
on utilise des noms à la place des addr:housenumber tel que
"maison des Edelweiss, rue de la gare"
peut-être est-ce utilisé légalement dans certains hameaux,
j'en ai pas connaissance.


Je ne comprends pas bien la différence que tu fais entre un nom 
d'adresse et un nom de bâtiment




en tout cas la combinaison addr:housename + addr:housenumber
me fait croire à une erreur qu'il faudrait corriger en name


OK je comprends ce critère, si un n° est attribué, alors pas de 
addr:housename



Dans le cas du Pays basque, vu ce qu'en dit Chantal ARRUTI et la page 
wikipédia https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_basque, la maison a une 
importance particulière et donc name = ... en plus de building = house 
semble le plus logique.

En plus, c'est ce que fera naturellement un contributeur débutant, je pense.

Du coup, si cela convient aux basques, cela vaudrait le coup de l'acter 
et, au fur et à mesure, supprimer les "place"="isolated_dwelling" et 
"addr:housenumber" redondants.


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Re: [Talk-it] Eliminazioni massive del tratto A31 Nord

[Matteo Zaffonato]

Ciao a tutti,
l'autore delle modifiche mi ha contatto stasera e mi ha detto che, a mente
fredda, si è accorto di aver sbagliato il metodo in cui ha agito e che si è
reso conto che sarebbe stato meglio contattare qualche mappatore per capire
meglio il perchè sia stato inserito quel pezzo di autostrada.
Sostanzialmente i suoi dubbi riguardano il fatto di aver inserito un
tracciato autostradale per cui non è mai stata posata la famosa "prima
pietra".

Gli ho spiegato che si sta parlando di questa cosa qui e nella
talk-it-veneto, gli ho passato i link dell'archivio di Dicembre di entrambe
le liste e mi sono offerto di cambiare il tagging da "construction" a
"proposed" dopo aver fatto il revert. Sono in attesa comunque di un suo
parere.

Grazie a tutti per l'aiuto e i suggerimenti
Matteo

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 11:20 PM Matteo Zaffonato  wrote:

> Ciao a tutti,
> nei giorni scorsi ho notato alcune cancellazioni massive del tratto
> autostradale riportato nell'oggetto. I changeset coinvolti sono:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382919
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382753
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382323
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368752
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368387
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368211
>
> Ho già contattato l'utente per un confronto e segnalato l'anomalia su
> OSMCHA, come devo comportarmi secondo voi?
>
> Ciao, grazie
> Matteo
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Le 11/12/2020 à 17:45, deuzeffe a écrit :

Le 11/12/2020 à 15:43, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :

Cela signifie-t-il qu'on pourra se servir des cartes IGN pour 
compléter OSM (après vérification évidemment, car il y a de nombreuses 
erreurs dans les cartes IGN) ?


De ce que je comprends de la discussion qui a suivi le tweet d'annonce, 
les cartes sont exclues du dispositif et donc de la licence. Au moins, 
les cartes papiers.


Ah oui, en effet, c'est grâce à la FFRandonnée:


Non, le SCAN25 comporte des données de la @ffrandonnee
ou du Club Vosgien qui ne sont pas ouvertes et est protégé par le droit 
d'auteur. Il sera proposé d'y substituer le #PlanIGN. Nous devons examiner avec 
nos partenaires et les utilisateurs comment répondre aux besoins.


(extrait de cette discussion).


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[OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OSM Uganda Local Chapter application

[Ciarán Staunton]

I wasn't initially going to comment on this except to say that there are
brilliant Ugandan mappers (317 contributed yesterday!). This community has
been super active for several years now, and those folks deserve to have a
chapter to strengthen their organisational efforts. Nevertheless, chapters
should have strong governance arrangements - and those arrangements
should include open membership, community control, recall of Directors, and
transparent ways of knowing that the Directors are acting in the interests
of the community. I can only assume that the Ugandan community are happy to
engage around these issues.

In late 2018 the Ireland OSM community applied for local chapter status
with me as Ireland's liaison on the applicant side. Within that there were
three junctures of 3-5 week email reply delays, and partial replies that
fell short of providing Ireland's community any clear sense of what was
driving the deliberation process in the background. As liaison I was given
the task or guessing at what was in fact happening for reports back
(including the 2019 AGM) Our application didn't appear on osmf meeting
agendas for example. It took from December 2018 to August 2019 to get
through the application process. I would hope that people commenting here
would have the good sense to recognise that a chapter is never frustrated
by substantive engagement on clearly advertised criteria, but it certainly
will be frustrated by poor communication and inexplicable delays.


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server

[Seán Lynch]

Hi all,

As people enjoy their walk, we would love if you could consider uploading
any plastic / litter data into OpenLitterMap 

Right now the only way to add data is using our platform, but we will open
our API hopefully next year and allow uploads from other developers.


github.com/openlittermap

TeamLitterUK is currently in 1st place globally for uploading the most data

Litter mapping has a remarkably low barrier to entry, allowing for
potentially many more people to get involved with data collection and
mapping

Cheers,

Seán

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 15:05, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thanks for this.
>
> My own feeling regarding what server we need is "start small, to get it
> going" and then as soon as OSMUK can commit to funding (*if* they can, of
> course) and/or several people share the cost, then scale up. Hetzner's
> model is very flexible in this regard, for instance I started with an 8GB
> RAM VM before I found it wasn't quite adequate for my needs and upgraded
> the same VM to the 16GB version (and added some disc space, I think, too).
> For now I am willing to spend a small amount (below EUR/GBP 5) for a month
> or two to get things going if there's sufficient interest.
>
> I'd broadly agree to an extent about going the Mapnik route although I
> would prefer another person with more experience in the niceties of current
> Mapnik stylesheet development to do large-scale tweaks;  I would be happy
> to do *small*​ tweaks on such things as, for example, making designations
> appear in a similar style to Landranger which might be an idea for
> familiarity purposes. On the other hand, vector rendering would have some
> advantages for the aims of this project - an interactive map of the
> countryside in which POIs and paths can be clicked to add/retrieve
> information. I believe Tangram can do this quite easily; I have dabbled in
> Tangram and it's quite easy to setup a simple stylesheet though haven't
> tried it with anything complex. Tangram also has some nice things like
> being able to be rendered in both isometric and (via A-Frame components,
> https://aframe.io) even in 3D. I have to admit having a personal like for
> the vector approach,   it shifts more processing onto the client, good in a
> world where standard client hardware, desktop and mobile, is pretty
> powerful while powerful server hardware is expensive.
>
> I wouldn't personally be so fussed about things like minutely updates
> until it becomes a 'production' map, while in development mode I think the
> best approach is to keep it simple and cheap to run. In terms of my own
> projects I do quite rigorous filtering of the OSM data before populating
> the DB, to reject things mostly of interest to urban areas which only use
> up space and resources in a walking-oriented map. Another way of keeping
> initial costs down would be to concentrate on one or a few counties,
> ideally well-mapped ones with many ROWs, hills, water features etc.
>
> So I'd be quite happy - *if*​ there's interest - to setup a cheaper
> Hetzner server for now. If we want to go the mapnik route I'd be happy to
> do a basic setup there as well, as in, get mod_tile working and use your
> style unmodified. My main personal contribution to the project would be to
> work on the server- and client-side scripting necessary to develop an
> interactive POI map. We'd also of course need people with strong web design
> and UX skills - alas, mine are not so great!
>
> As for other points - things like https cert renewal seem easy with Let's
> Encrypt; have been using that succesfully for a while now.
>
> Nick
>
>
> *Nick Whitelegg*
> *Senior Lecturer in Computing (Internet)*  *|* School of Media Arts and
> Technology
> Southampton Solent University  *|* RM424 *|* East Park Terrace *|* Southampton
> SO14 0YN
> T: 023 8201 3075 *|* E: nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk *|* W: solent.ac.uk
> 
>
> Disclaimer 
> --
> *From:* Andy Townsend 
> *Sent:* 11 December 2020 13:40
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -&
> server
>
>
>
> On 11/12/2020 09:59, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:
>
>
> In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting hardware,
> like most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for a while usage would
> be light and limited to those in the OSM community. I use Hetzner for my
> hosting (OpenTrailView, Hikar, MapThePaths) - I pay around EUR 19/month but
> that is for a larger system that has to deal with the whole of Europe
> rather than just the UK.
>
>  https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb
>
> The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM and 40GB
> disc space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than that long term, but
> I suspect that would get us going in the early 

Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands and London

[SK53]

DWG have reverted this changeset and set a user block
.

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 20:27, Steve Brook via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> This user has just deleted Broadcasting House.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95699320
> Can someone block him and revert all his work.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history
> Most if not all of it is vandalism.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Russ Garrett [mailto:r...@garrett.co.uk]
> Sent: 09 December 2020 19:53
> To: Colin Smale
> Cc: Talk-GB
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands
>
> Ah I ran into his work this afternoon by pure chance and reverted one
> of these changesets (95506246) and left a comment - no reply as yet.
> It looked like vandalism to me.
>
>
> Russ
>
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 19:51, Colin Smale  wrote:
> >
> > A new user, TL5100, is causing a bit of damage in the Midlands, deleting
> loads of things for no obvious reason. A couple of their changesets have
> comments to this effect already. Could someone have a word?
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history#map=11/52.0822/-2.4818
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
>
> --
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> r...@garrett.co.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands and London

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 12/11/20 21:25, Steve Brook via Talk-GB wrote:
> This user has just deleted Broadcasting House. 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95699320 
> Can someone block him and revert all his work.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history
> Most if not all of it is vandalism. 

Most edits had already been reverted by others, I've cleaned up the
rest, including undeletion of Broadcasting House and the Worcester AL8
boundary. I have issued a 24h block and requested more careful editing &
better changeset comments.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands and London

[SK53]

In this sort of case it's best to report the user to DWG (there is a button
on the user page on osm.org).

Jerry

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 20:27, Steve Brook via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> This user has just deleted Broadcasting House.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95699320
> Can someone block him and revert all his work.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history
> Most if not all of it is vandalism.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Russ Garrett [mailto:r...@garrett.co.uk]
> Sent: 09 December 2020 19:53
> To: Colin Smale
> Cc: Talk-GB
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands
>
> Ah I ran into his work this afternoon by pure chance and reverted one
> of these changesets (95506246) and left a comment - no reply as yet.
> It looked like vandalism to me.
>
>
> Russ
>
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 19:51, Colin Smale  wrote:
> >
> > A new user, TL5100, is causing a bit of damage in the Midlands, deleting
> loads of things for no obvious reason. A couple of their changesets have
> comments to this effect already. Could someone have a word?
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history#map=11/52.0822/-2.4818
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
>
> --
> Russ Garrett
> r...@garrett.co.uk
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands and London

[Steve Brook via Talk-GB]

This user has just deleted Broadcasting House. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95699320 
Can someone block him and revert all his work.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history
Most if not all of it is vandalism. 

-Original Message-
From: Russ Garrett [mailto:r...@garrett.co.uk] 
Sent: 09 December 2020 19:53
To: Colin Smale
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Newbie damage alert in West Midlands

Ah I ran into his work this afternoon by pure chance and reverted one
of these changesets (95506246) and left a comment - no reply as yet.
It looked like vandalism to me.


Russ

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 19:51, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
> A new user, TL5100, is causing a bit of damage in the Midlands, deleting 
> loads of things for no obvious reason. A couple of their changesets have 
> comments to this effect already. Could someone have a word?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TL5100/history#map=11/52.0822/-2.4818
>
>
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-- 
Russ Garrett
r...@garrett.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-at] Gefahr durch Internet-Bergrouten

[Robert Grübler]

Am 10.12.2020 schrieb Friedrich Volkmann

> Die Alpenvereine sind keine Alleinherrscher …
So ist es. OSM darf das Beste von allen vereinen.

> Das Symbol für "alpine Route" hab ich noch nie auf einem Wegweiser gesehen.
Hier siehst du es: 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Wegweiser_Warnsdorfer_H%C3%BCtte.jpg
 

> Wenn man auf die bestehenden Wege die neuen, gelben Wegweiser aufstellt, 
> macht man halt die blauen/roten/schwarzen Punkte dazu, aber das heißt nicht, 
> dass die schwarzen einem T4 entsprechen
https://www.alpenverein.de/bergsport/aktiv-sein/bergsport-die-schwierigkeits-skalen_aid_27599.html
 



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Christian Quest]

Plan IGN est une version raster produite à partir de la BD Topo (vecteur).

https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/carte?c=2.31711259637669,48.84148703642347=11=GEOGRAPHICALGRIDSYSTEMS.PLANIGNV2::GEOPORTAIL:OGC:WMTS(1)=yes


Les deux seront ouverts.


Le 11/12/2020 à 18:35, Frédéric Rodrigo a écrit :

Le 11/12/2020 à 18:08, Florimond Berthoux a écrit :

Bonjour,

C'est quoi « la pyramide #PlanIGN » ?

Je lis https://twitter.com/SylvainLatarget/status/1337339748642385928 

«Vous aurez accès aux données vectorielles de la pyramide 
cartographique #PlanIGN 
et vous 
pourrez en faire ce que vous voudrez»


C'est à dire pas le rendu final de la carte, mais la donnée 
vectorielle ?

On aurait déjà des outils pour les exploiter facilement ?


Oui, c'est des formats SIG standard, shape file, geopackage... c'est 
un domaine balisé. Mais ça va être de gros fichier.


Pour en faire des cartes, il faudra faire un style. Mais il doit déjà 
en exister. Beaucoup de monde utilise déjà ces données non libres de 
l'IGN.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Christian Quest]

Le 11/12/2020 à 17:45, deuzeffe a écrit :

Le 11/12/2020 à 15:43, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :


Bonjour,


Bonjour,

Cela signifie-t-il qu'on pourra se servir des cartes IGN pour 
compléter OSM (après vérification évidemment, car il y a de 
nombreuses erreurs dans les cartes IGN) ?


De ce que je comprends de la discussion qui a suivi le tweet 
d'annonce, les cartes sont exclues du dispositif et donc de la 
licence. Au moins, les cartes papiers.




Voici la décision du CA de l'IGN: 
https://www.ign.fr/publications-de-l-ign/institut/informations_legales_administratives/deliberation_evolution_tarification_licences_dec2020.pdf


C'est du verbiage admin à décrypter...

Donc tout ce qui est "édité" par l'IGN sans droits de tiers sera ouvert.

A ma connaissance, les cartes IGN ne sont pas couvertes par des droits 
de tiers, donc elles seront en principe elles aussi ouvertes... sauf les 
itinéraires des GR ;)


"Plan IGN", semble bien concerné et c'est mis à jour mensuellement 
(mieux que les scan des Top25 qui datent souvent).


Par contre la décision ne couvre que ce qui est "édité", donc des 
données brutes pourraient ne pas rentrer dans cette ouverture. Juste un 
exemple: les orthos brutes, multi-angles seraient potentiellement 
intéressantes. Là, espérons que l'accès puisse aussi s'ouvrir sans 
passer par la CADA !



La BD Topo est le gros morceau intéressant, car là c'est de la data, 
donc croisements possibles, analyses osmose (je suis déjà dessus).


La BD Alti, utile pour le relief...

Bref, cela ouvre tout un nouveau champ de possibilités envisagées depuis 
si longtemps mais restés bloquées.



--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Frédéric Rodrigo]

Le 11/12/2020 à 18:08, Florimond Berthoux a écrit :

Bonjour,

C'est quoi « la pyramide #PlanIGN » ?

Je lis https://twitter.com/SylvainLatarget/status/1337339748642385928 

«Vous aurez accès aux données vectorielles de la pyramide 
cartographique #PlanIGN 
et vous pourrez 
en faire ce que vous voudrez»


C'est à dire pas le rendu final de la carte, mais la donnée vectorielle ?
On aurait déjà des outils pour les exploiter facilement ?


Oui, c'est des formats SIG standard, shape file, geopackage... c'est un 
domaine balisé. Mais ça va être de gros fichier.


Pour en faire des cartes, il faudra faire un style. Mais il doit déjà en 
exister. Beaucoup de monde utilise déjà ces données non libres de l'IGN.




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Florimond Berthoux]

Bonjour,

C'est quoi « la pyramide #PlanIGN » ?

Je lis https://twitter.com/SylvainLatarget/status/1337339748642385928
«Vous aurez accès aux données vectorielles de la pyramide cartographique
#PlanIGN  et vous
pourrez en faire ce que vous voudrez»

C'est à dire pas le rendu final de la carte, mais la donnée vectorielle ?
On aurait déjà des outils pour les exploiter facilement ?

Le ven. 11 déc. 2020 à 13:40, Vincent Bergeot  a
écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> pour information
>
> https://www.ign.fr/publications-de-l-ign/institut/informations_legales_administratives/deliberation_evolution_tarification_licences_dec2020.pdf
>
> Cela part de cet oiseau bleu
> https://twitter.com/SylvainLatarget/status/1337304477867630594
>
> "Les premières données disponibles seront :
> la #BDTOPO ; la #BDORTHO France entière ; la pyramide #PlanIGN.
> D'autres données seront progressivement disponibles en téléchargement et
> en flux."
>
> Bonne journée
>
> --
> Vincent Bergeot
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Usages des cartes IGN pour contribuer à OSM [était : Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[deuzeffe]

Le 11/12/2020 à 17:53, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :

cela me fait me demander si cela pourrait être un nouvel élément de la 
convention entre osm-fr et l'ign, sur le même principe que ce nous 
avions avec la bd ortho et son usage pour contribuer à OSM.


Histoire de changer une convention caduque par une autre, en somme (et 
ailleurs en France).


Peut-on envisager l'usage, par convention, des cartes IGN pour la 
contribution à OSM (avec, comme le souligne Jean-Claude les 
vérifications adéquates) ?


Avec correction des cartes IGN par leur soins avec les données OSM ? Je 
ne sais pas s'il y avait une contre-partie demandée à OSM-FR par l'IGN 
dans la défunte convention.



Avis ?


Sans, pour l'instant, pas assez d'éléments pour en avoir un suffisamment 
éclairé.

--
deuzeffe

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[OSM-talk-fr] Usages des cartes IGN pour contribuer à OSM [était : Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Vincent Bergeot]

Le 11/12/2020 à 17:45, deuzeffe a écrit :

Le 11/12/2020 à 15:43, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :


Bonjour,


Bonjour,

Cela signifie-t-il qu'on pourra se servir des cartes IGN pour 
compléter OSM (après vérification évidemment, car il y a de 
nombreuses erreurs dans les cartes IGN) ?


De ce que je comprends de la discussion qui a suivi le tweet 
d'annonce, les cartes sont exclues du dispositif et donc de la 
licence. Au moins, les cartes papiers.


cela me fait me demander si cela pourrait être un nouvel élément de la 
convention entre osm-fr et l'ign, sur le même principe que ce nous 
avions avec la bd ortho et son usage pour contribuer à OSM.


Peut-on envisager l'usage, par convention, des cartes IGN pour la 
contribution à OSM (avec, comme le souligne Jean-Claude les 
vérifications adéquates) ?


Avis ?

--
Vincent Bergeot


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[deuzeffe]

Le 11/12/2020 à 15:43, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :


Bonjour,


Bonjour,

Cela signifie-t-il qu'on pourra se servir des cartes IGN pour compléter 
OSM (après vérification évidemment, car il y a de nombreuses erreurs 
dans les cartes IGN) ?


De ce que je comprends de la discussion qui a suivi le tweet d'annonce, 
les cartes sont exclues du dispositif et donc de la licence. Au moins, 
les cartes papiers.


--
deuzeffe


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Open Street Misogynie ? inclusif ?

[Jean-Marc Liotier]

On 12/11/20 4:14 PM, FR via Talk-fr wrote:
Il y a quand même une phrase qui m’a fait tiquer dans ce fil : "une 
femme qui s'en plaint sera étiquetée emmerdeuse féministe". Cher ami 
quels clichés ! (c'est bien connu dans les cours d'écoles les filles 
ce sont que des pisseuses). Les femmes et les féministes (garçons et 
filles) ne sont pas dans le registre de la plainte mais plutôt dans 
celui revendication du droit à l'égalité. En dans ce contexte se faire 
traiter d’emmerdeuse c’est plutôt compliment. 


Ce cliché (je suis l'auteur de la phrase, plus haut dans le thread) a 
malheureusement toujours cours. Je suis représentant du personnel... 
Entre représentants du personnel, être traité d'emmerdeur est une forme 
compliment - mais vu de la direction nettement moins. La même chanson ne 
fera pas vibrer les deux publics de la même manière. Aller au carton 
avec la direction sous les encouragements des collègues du syndicat est 
une gloire coûteuse - et surtout vaine lorsqu'on est minoritaire. Mon 
propos n'est pas de juger la légitimité de la revendication mais d'en 
considérer la stratégie.



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Open Street Misogynie ? inclusif ?

[FR via Talk-fr]

Bonjour à tou·te·s

Merci à Christian d’avoir lancé cette discussion. Mon premier réflexe 
était de répondre que AMHA c’était pas pire dans OSM qu’ailleurs dans le 
monde de l’informatique.  Mais ce point a été largement évoqué avant que 
je ne découvre ce fil je vais pas en rajouter. Merci les amis (et l’amie 
2F). Le plus terrible c’est que ce soit particulièrement prégnant dans 
les LL!


Y a-t-il  des propos proprement misogynes sur la liste ? pas vraiment 
(mais je ne lis pas tout), M'enfin. vous n’imaginez pas le nombre de 
fois ou je me suis marrée en lisant des messages interpellant les 
membres de la liste uniquement au masculin (malheureusement me souviens 
pas des formulations).
Il y a quand même une phrase qui m’a fait tiquer dans ce fil : "une 
femme qui s'en plaint sera étiquetée emmerdeuse féministe". Cher ami 
quels clichés ! (c'est bien connu dans les cours d'écoles les filles ce 
sont que des pisseuses). Les femmes et les féministes (garçons et 
filles) ne sont pas dans le registre de la plainte mais plutôt dans 
celui revendication du droit à l'égalité. En dans ce contexte se faire 
traiter d’emmerdeuse c’est plutôt compliment.


Quant à la question de la misogynie dans les lieux de décision d’OSM 
France, comme je ne fait bricoler la carte tranquillement dans mon coin 
je ne saurais dire…


Il ne vous aura pas échappé que la même problématique concernant fossé 
du genre se pose chez Wikipédia. Elle est à l’origine du projet des 
"sans pagEs"  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Les_sans_pagEs.


Pour en revenir à la place des femmes dans OSM connaissez vous les 
Geochicas ?
– 
https://blog.mapillary.com/update/2019/05/28/putting-women-on-the-map-with-geochicas.html 


– https://twitter.com/GeochicasOSM
et leur enquête sur la représentation de genre dans OSM 
https://infogram.com/resultados-encuesta-geochicas-latam-1gj725gvzdgjp1l

Il y a aussi la GirlsMap Initiative https://twitter.com/girls_map

Mes 2 cents

Françoise, panthère grise

Le 11/12/2020 à 07:58, Marc_marc a écrit :

Bonjour,

Le 10.12.20 à 12:35, Christian Quest a écrit :

J'espère ne pas ouvrir une boite de pandore avec ce message...
mais bon, je prends le risque.


pour avoir suivit le début de la discussion d'origine sur osm-talk,
j'ai l'impression qu'une phrase totalement déplacé, sert de parfait
écran de fumée à son destinataire : l'employé de facebook, qui
trouve que l'obligation d'attribution  "n'est pas clair*, que fb
fait tout bon, qu'il n'y a aura jamais aucun conflit d'intérêt
entre "l'intérêt d'osm" et "l'intérêt à ménager son emploi"
exit tout le débat de fond autour de cela, maintenant il est
le "sauveur des minorités face à un osm misogyne"... affligeant
de voir ce détournement de conversation alors que les 2 sujets
méritaient d'être séparé au lieu que l'un serve la cause
de l'autre.


De mémoire, jamais nous n'avons ressenti l'intérêt d'avoir un "code of
conduct", jamais je n'ai eu d'écho de quelconque problème de cet ordre.


ha ?
j'ai pourtant pour ma part évoqué au moins à 2 reprises
un problème d'étique durant l'année écoulée.


Suis-je aveugle et sourd ?


disons parfois dur d'oreille :)

- parler de misogynie est réducteur, la sous-représentation
des femmes tant dans les discussions que dans le ca est criante.
c'est malheureusement un classique dans les domaines dit technologique,
cela a aussi sûrement des causes tel que la caricature des genres,
mais peut-être pas que.
par exemple le syndrome de l'imposteur est aussi partie prenante
de l'autre partie qui ne met pas assez en confiance.
le "dadsplaining" est redoutablement dévastateur et parfois
tu ne l'entends pas. au point que tu n’imagines même pas
doute pas être concerné.

- il y a aussi l'inclusion des nouveaux qui motive... heu
non qui ne motive quasi personne en France justement.
D'autres communautés en sont à quasi 100% d’accueil des nouveaux,
voir à discuter avant un mapathon sur comment accueillir
ces futurs nouveaux sans gros délais avant même leur arrivée.
J'y pense à chaque fois que je croise un "premier changeset +
review_request" qui n'a toujours aucune réaction après des mois.
ce point me parait tellement frappant que je m'arrête là :
un groupe qui n'est pas inclusif envers les nouveaux, est tout
sauf inclusif !

Cordialement,
Marc



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Re: [Talk-lt] testas

[Tomas Straupis]

2020-12-11, pn, 16:55 Nerijus Šalkauskas rašė:
> nežinau kaip naudotis šitais talk listais. Test

  Taip ir naudotis :-)
  Tu parašai laišką į talk-lt, jį gauna visi prisijungę prie sąrašyno
(šiuo metu 83 žmonės).
  Kai gauni laišką iš sąrašyno, jo temoje bus [Talk-lt], spaudi reply
ir atsakinėji turėdamas omeny, kad tavo atsakymą skaitys visi ir
atsakymas bus suarchyvuotas ir prieinamas viešai (ir ištrinti/pakeisti
jo negalima). Taigi gerai galvojam ir tada rašom.

  Žodžiu sveikas prisijungęs!

P.S. Ankstesnių diskusijų archyvas:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-lt/

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

Hello Andy,

Thanks for this.

My own feeling regarding what server we need is "start small, to get it going" 
and then as soon as OSMUK can commit to funding (*if* they can, of course) 
and/or several people share the cost, then scale up. Hetzner's model is very 
flexible in this regard, for instance I started with an 8GB RAM VM before I 
found it wasn't quite adequate for my needs and upgraded the same VM to the 
16GB version (and added some disc space, I think, too). For now I am willing to 
spend a small amount (below EUR/GBP 5) for a month or two to get things going 
if there's sufficient interest.

I'd broadly agree to an extent about going the Mapnik route although I would 
prefer another person with more experience in the niceties of current Mapnik 
stylesheet development to do large-scale tweaks;  I would be happy to do small​ 
tweaks on such things as, for example, making designations appear in a similar 
style to Landranger which might be an idea for familiarity purposes. On the 
other hand, vector rendering would have some advantages for the aims of this 
project - an interactive map of the countryside in which POIs and paths can be 
clicked to add/retrieve information. I believe Tangram can do this quite 
easily; I have dabbled in Tangram and it's quite easy to setup a simple 
stylesheet though haven't tried it with anything complex. Tangram also has some 
nice things like being able to be rendered in both isometric and (via A-Frame 
components, https://aframe.io) even in 3D. I have to admit having a personal 
like for the vector approach,   it shifts more processing onto the client, good 
in a world where standard client hardware, desktop and mobile, is pretty 
powerful while powerful server hardware is expensive.

I wouldn't personally be so fussed about things like minutely updates until it 
becomes a 'production' map, while in development mode I think the best approach 
is to keep it simple and cheap to run. In terms of my own projects I do quite 
rigorous filtering of the OSM data before populating the DB, to reject things 
mostly of interest to urban areas which only use up space and resources in a 
walking-oriented map. Another way of keeping initial costs down would be to 
concentrate on one or a few counties, ideally well-mapped ones with many ROWs, 
hills, water features etc.

So I'd be quite happy - if​ there's interest - to setup a cheaper Hetzner 
server for now. If we want to go the mapnik route I'd be happy to do a basic 
setup there as well, as in, get mod_tile working and use your style unmodified. 
My main personal contribution to the project would be to work on the server- 
and client-side scripting necessary to develop an interactive POI map. We'd 
also of course need people with strong web design and UX skills - alas, mine 
are not so great!

As for other points - things like https cert renewal seem easy with Let's 
Encrypt; have been using that succesfully for a while now.

Nick



Nick Whitelegg
Senior Lecturer in Computing (Internet)  | School of Media Arts and Technology
Southampton Solent University  | RM424 | East Park Terrace | Southampton SO14 
0YN
T: 023 8201 3075 | E: 
nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk | W: 
solent.ac.uk

Disclaimer

From: Andy Townsend 
Sent: 11 December 2020 13:40
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server



On 11/12/2020 09:59, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:

In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting hardware, like 
most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for a while usage would be light 
and limited to those in the OSM community. I use Hetzner for my hosting 
(OpenTrailView, Hikar, MapThePaths) - I pay around EUR 19/month but that is for 
a larger system that has to deal with the whole of Europe rather than just the 
UK.

 https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb

The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM and 40GB disc 
space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than that long term, but I 
suspect that would get us going in the early stages.


That'll depending on what you want the server to do, I think.  For an OSM Carto 
Map style with automatic updates and reasonable performance you'll probably 
need > 6Gb memory for the whole of the UK these days.  Maybe a CX31 at €11 per 
month (i.e. about the price of a couple of pints and a "substantial" pork pie 
for those in tier 2)?  https://map.atownsend.org.uk is a CX41 I believe, and 
renders Mapnik / Carto CSS map tiles that cover UK and Ireland.  It could 
probably include another "medium sized OSM country" in the same map style as 
well without too many problems.


On the question of "could we show feature X" (e.g. "cycleways with foot=yes" 
different to "cycleways with foot=no) the answer is technically yes, but you 
need to decide which 

[Talk-lt] testas

[Nerijus Šalkauskas]

Sveiki,

nežinau kaip naudotis šitais talk listais. Test

--empers
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Le 11/12/2020 à 13:38, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :

Bonjour,

pour information 
https://www.ign.fr/publications-de-l-ign/institut/informations_legales_administratives/deliberation_evolution_tarification_licences_dec2020.pdf 



Cela part de cet oiseau bleu 
https://twitter.com/SylvainLatarget/status/1337304477867630594


"Les premières données disponibles seront :
la #BDTOPO ; la #BDORTHO France entière ; la pyramide #PlanIGN.
D'autres données seront progressivement disponibles en téléchargement et 
en flux."


Bonne journée




Bonjour,

Cela signifie-t-il qu'on pourra se servir des cartes IGN pour compléter 
OSM (après vérification évidemment, car il y a de nombreuses erreurs 
dans les cartes IGN) ?


Jean-Claude


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Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/12/2020 09:59, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:



In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting hardware, 
like most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for a while usage 
would be light and limited to those in the OSM community. I use 
Hetzner for my hosting (OpenTrailView, Hikar, MapThePaths) - I pay 
around EUR 19/month but that is for a larger system that has to deal 
with the whole of Europe rather than just the UK.


https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb 



The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM and 
40GB disc space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than that long 
term, but I suspect that would get us going in the early stages.



That'll depending on what you want the server to do, I think. For an OSM 
Carto Map style with automatic updates and reasonable performance you'll 
probably need > 6Gb memory for the whole of the UK these days.  Maybe a 
CX31 at €11 per month (i.e. about the price of a couple of pints and a 
"substantial" pork pie for those in tier 2)?  
https://map.atownsend.org.uk is a CX41 I believe, and renders Mapnik / 
Carto CSS map tiles that cover UK and Ireland. It could probably include 
another "medium sized OSM country" in the same map style as well without 
too many problems.



On the question of "could we show feature X" (e.g. "cycleways with 
foot=yes" different to "cycleways with foot=no) the answer is 
technically yes, but you need to decide which subset of features you 
want to show because there simply aren't enough ways of visually 
distinguishing things that users can actually tell apart, especially 
when combined with other features.



As an example, have a look at the legend at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=-24.98988=135.10862 
.  That shows:


 * designation (public footpath / bridleway / retricted byway / BOAT /
   UCR / none)
 * width - either "narrow" (not wide enough for a 4 wheeled vehicle) or
   "wide" (wide enough)
 * trail_visibility
 * some surface information (unclassified unpaved roads rendered
   differently to paved roads)
 * tunnel yes/no
 * long ford yes/no
 * bridge yes/no
 * embankment yes/no
 * long distance foot / bicycle / horse riding routes
 * access=destination and =private viewed from a pedestrian perspective

and of course combinations of the above.


It does not show:

 * explicit OSM keys (e.g. footway/cycleway/path/bridleway)
 * explicit OSM access tags (e.g. "foot=yes or no on a cycleway")
 * undesignated cycleways differently from other undesignated paths

In order to one of those (for example just "displaying cycleways as 
cycleways") you'd need to remove something else that's already rendered, 
otherwise users won't be able to tell features apart.



Assuming that people are planning to go down the mod_tile / Mapnik / 
Carto CSS route, I'd suggest:


1. decide what zoom levels you want, which will influence exactly which
   software to use
2. deciding where to start from (e.g OSM's Standard style, mine, or a
   different one altogether)
3. deciding exactly what you want to change
4. make those changes,
5. see what "unintended consequences" have occurred
6. fix those and iterate round until happy

Assuming you can deal a couple of hours overnight downtime while the 
database reloads I'd suggest doing most of the "deciding what to show as 
different things" work in lua and the "deciding what to show it as" in 
Carto CSS.  It's much easier to understand and to maintain.



With regard to the "boring bit" (scripts to load databases, keep 
databases up to date etc.) most of the stuff used by 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk is public (links to everything are at the 
top of the changelog).  Much of the rest (e.g. automatic https 
certificate renewal) is standard and is documented in 1000s of other 
places around the internet.  If anyone wants any help or advice with any 
of the above please just ask.



There may be a temptation to think "the end goal is a phone app , so 
actually we probably want to look at $some_other_technology instead".  I 
would strongly suggest following a well-trodden path first while so that 
the things that are new to whoever is doing this are have 
well-documented solutions.  I haven't yet found a vector tile stack that 
is (a) well documented and (b) free of vendor lock-in that could go on 
https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/ yet, for example.  Once whoever is 
doing this is familiar with things, trying something a bit more 
off-the-wall will be more likely to work without everything breaking.



The biggest requirement is for someone to actually commit to doing the 
work to set something up - nothing will happen without this.  If OSM UK 
are happy to fund a server, and for it to fit in their DNS somewhere 
then that's one less expense to worry about - but someone still needs to 
do the work.



Best Regards,


Andy




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[Talk-GB] Another milestone in solar panel mapping: over 300k OSM elements

[SK53]

We passed over 300k individual OSM elements mapped as solar panels
yesterday.

Since I last reported back in early October there have been some other
highlights:

   - Dan, Jack & Cos publication of the dataset already announced here.
   - Russ's tool for adding module counts, also mentioned on this list.


   - Orkney nearly at 60%, and lots added in Highland & Outer Hebrides
   (Russ)
   - Warwick first West Midlands district to reach 80% plus (Brian)
   - Jeremy Harris has made massive inroads in a short time along the Colne
   Valley (Chiltern (50%), Watford (120%) , Dacorum (50%) & Three Rivers
   (130%)), which provides another nucleus of well-mapped districts contiguous
   with Greater London. I've recently pushed both Hillingdon & Ealing to the
   90%+ mark to complement this (largely as a result of inadvertently seeing
   lots of solar in Northolt when looking for something else). In these areas
   the discrepancy between FIT installations & potential number of panels to
   be mapped is obviously higher than elsewhere, which I expect to be true
   across Greater London & better-off areas of the South-East.
   - It's also become noticeable that a line of better mapped districts is
   emerging from Peterborough towards Ipswich.
   - Doubling of districts with over 90% mapped (Watford, Three Rivers,
   South Northamptonshire, Bolsover, Amber Valley, Erewash, Ashfield,
   Mansfield, Bassetlaw, Knowsley & others). This now looks to be achievable
   anywhere with the newer imagery.
   - Now module count & direction are both around 55k elements (over 18% of
   total). This is a significant improvement & very much the focus of my own
   efforts. I'm finding measurement tools in Josm, Vespucci & iD can be very
   useful in determining module counts.

Dan can chip in with suggestions of areas to focus on, but I think Cornwall
remains a target as does conversion of nodes to areas on larger buildings &
ensuring these are actually on buildings. Otherwise it's pretty much carry
on as we are.

One thing I find I'm catching fairly frequently are rebuilt school, and to
a lesser extent, hospital sites. These may merit being revisited more
systematically in a future quarterly project.

Best wishes,

Jerry
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Re: [Talk-it] Eliminazioni massive del tratto A31 Nord

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Fr., 11. Dez. 2020 um 09:32 Uhr schrieb Alessandro Sarretta <
alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com>:

> A mio parere, i tratti di strada oggetto di discussione possono essere
> inseriti in OSM solamente se parte di un progetto esecutivo approvato, non
> se solamente in fase di ipotesi. Nel caso specifico, sicuramente non devono
> essere segnati come "construction", visto che non ci sono lavori in atto.
>


+1. in assenza di cantiere potrebbero (progetto approvato, soldi stanziati)
essere "proposed". Sulla questione "soldi stanziati" non c'è forse consenso
comune, è una regola che usano in Germania (credo) per evitare que
qualsiasi vaga idea venga inserito come "proposed". Alcuni progetti hanno
40 anni e non sono mai stati eseguiti (e nessuno sa se lo saranno).



> Se così è, io sarei per un revert che porti la situazione prima
> dell'inserimento dei tratti "construction" che in realtà non sono affatto
> in costruzione. Chiedo però a qualcuno più esperto in revert come questo
> debba essere gestito per evitare di compromettere edits successivi connessi.
>

credo "a mano".


Ciao
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Creazione di un Diversity and Inclusion Group in OSM Italia

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Fr., 11. Dez. 2020 um 14:09 Uhr schrieb Anisa Kuci <
anisa.k...@wikimedia.it>:

> Ciao a tutte e tutti,
>
> abbiamo appena creato un gruppo di (attualmente) 15 donne italiane che
> contribuiscono a OSM ma, dopo aver discusso tra noi, abbiamo pensato che
> sarebbe bello se questo gruppo non fosse solo al femminile ma aperto a
> tutte le persone che sentono di far parte di gruppi sotto-rappresentati
> all'interno della nostra comunità.
>
> Stiamo organizzando per il 2021 una serie di incontri in collaborazione
> con altre comunità (soprattutto Diversity and Inclusion groups) del
> mondo FLOSS, con l'idea di creare una rete per condividere conoscenze ed
> esperienze.
> L'obiettivo che ci poniamo è capire cosa si può fare per avere comunità
> più inclusiva e come poter lavorare insieme per avere spazi più
> accoglienti per tutti.
> Al momento abbiamo fatto due incontri online per iniziare a programmare
> il progetto e il prossimo è previsto prima di Natale (non abbiamo ancora
> definito la data)
> Ci piacerebbe che partecipassero, soprattutto in questa fase
> organizzativa, altre persone per dare anche le loro opinioni.
> Chi fosse interessato/a può contattarmi alla mail: anisa.k...@wikimedia.it
>
> Chiedo gentilmente a tutti/e coloro che vogliono sostenere questa
> iniziativa di condividere questa mail nelle mailing list che ritenete
> utili.
>
> Grazie mille e buona giornata,
> Anisa




Grazie Anisa,

sarei interessato ad iscrivermi a questo nuovo gruppo.

Questa notizia mi rende da una parte felice che ci sono persone che hanno a
cuore l'inclusione e la diversità, e dall'altra parte un po' triste perché
significa apparentemente si sentono escluse dai discorsi qui su talk-it,
oppure al meno pensono che non si potrebbe parlare di inclusione e
diversità su questa lista.

grazie ancora,
Martin


PS: Spero sinceramente che questa iniziativa non farà la fine del gruppo
internazionale "diversity", che ho deciso di lasciare anni fa, dopo che era
diventato campo di battaglie disgustose, scambi mai visti così violenti nel
contesto di OSM, anzi, direi in assoluto, tra due attivist@ lottando per la
inclusione e la diversità...
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Re: [Talk-it] Eliminazioni massive del tratto A31 Nord

[Matteo Zaffonato]

Da quel che ho letto era stato approvato un progetto per i lavori, ma 
poi è stato bloccato nel 2019.


Ciao, grazie
Matteo

Il 11/12/2020 09:09, Alessandro Sarretta ha scritto:


Provando a riassumere, se non ho capito male, x Deamon ha inserito, 
ormai alcuni mesi fa, dei tratti del progetto Valdastico Nord 
segnandoli come hygway=construction, mentre willycat alcuni giorni fa 
li ha cancellati, però facendo alcuni casini.


A mio parere, i tratti di strada oggetto di discussione possono essere 
inseriti in OSM solamente se parte di un progetto esecutivo approvato, 
non se solamente in fase di ipotesi. Nel caso specifico, sicuramente 
non devono essere segnati come "construction", visto che non ci sono 
lavori in atto.


Se così è, io sarei per un revert che porti la situazione prima 
dell'inserimento dei tratti "construction" che in realtà non sono 
affatto in costruzione. Chiedo però a qualcuno più esperto in revert 
come questo debba essere gestito per evitare di compromettere edits 
successivi connessi.


Ale

On 10/12/20 23:46, Peppe via Talk-it wrote:


Concordo con Davide pure io ho trovato qualche modifica futuristica 
di xDeamon diciamo discutibile o quantomeno da riportare a tutti 
prima di farla.

Se sono state cancellate strade esistenti cmq vanno ripristinate

giovedì, 10 dicembre 2020, 11:40PM +01:00 da Davide Sandona 
sandona.dav...@gmail.com :


E' una questione complessa.

Negli ultimi mesi l'utente xDeamon si è occupato di inserire su
OSM diversi percorsi stradali attualmente in fase di
progettazione, quali l'A31 Nord, segnalandoli con gli opportuni
tag "construction".
Una decina di giorni fa ho provato a contattarlo via messaggio
privato, per capire l'utilità di queste informazioni.
Personalmente, non trovo nessun senso nell'inserire in OSM
tracciati che non sono ancora costruiti, né tantomeno approvati.
Sottolineo che non sono l'utente che fatto l'eliminazione
massiva, tuttavia mi trovo d'accordo con la sua modifica.

In relazione al tracciato A31 nord sono già apparse diverse note
(per esempio 2446844, 2446838). Non c'è ombra di dubbio che l'A31
Nord sia un argomento scottante. Tuttavia non ritengo che OSM sia
il posto giusto per scatenare una polemica su questa autostrada
controversa. Secondo la mia opinione, fintantoché non c'è un
progetto approvato con un via libera ai lavori, nessuna
informazione riguardante l'A31 nord dovrebbe essere presente in
OSM. Secondo me, OSM dovrebbe rappresentare lo stato attuale
della mappa, non uno stato passato, e sicuramente non uno stato
futuro.

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/xDeamon


Davide.


Il giorno gio 10 dic 2020 alle ore 23:21 Matteo Zaffonato
mailto:zaff...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:

Ciao a tutti,
nei giorni scorsi ho notato alcune cancellazioni massive del
tratto autostradale riportato nell'oggetto. I changeset
coinvolti sono:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382919

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382753

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382323

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368752

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368387

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368211


Ho già contattato l'utente per un confronto e segnalato
l'anomalia su OSMCHA, come devo comportarmi secondo voi?

Ciao, grazie
Matteo
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--
--

Alessandro Sarretta

skype/twitter: alesarrett
Web: ilsarrett.wordpress.com 

Research information:

  * Google scholar profile

  * ORCID 
  * Research Gate

  * Impactstory 

Re: [Talk-it] Due punti sulla mappa...

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Fr., 11. Dez. 2020 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt :

>
> A parte questo.
> Mi sembra che il nostro tagging ha una strana asimmetria.
>
> Per *un way* (per esempio un pezzo di strada) abbiamo tre stati:
>
>- esistente,
>- construction,
>- proposed
>
> Sarebbero desiderabili
>
>- esistente fisicamente ma non ancora aperta al traffico
>- esistente fisicamente ma non più in uso
>- maintenance (chiuso per period esteso, ma sarà ripristinato)
>
>

solo 2 stati per way esistenti? Si potrebbe distinguere:
* lavori iniziati
* lavori in fase di esecuzione:
  * (inserire qui 3-5 fasi di progresso delle costruzioni)
  *
  *
  *
* lavori iniziati ma non più continuati per motivi sconosciuti
* lavori iniziati ma non più continuati per motivi economici
* lavori iniziati ma non più continuati per motivi politici
* lavori iniziati ma non più continuati per motivi tecnici


ecc.ecc.

Seriamente, qualsiasi cosa può sempre essere taggata con un ulteriore
livello di dettaglio
il caso "esistente fisicamente ma non ancora aperta al traffico" è già
contenuto in highway=construction
Il caso "esistente fisicamente ma non più in uso" viene rappresentato con i
tag access
Il caso "maintenance (chiuso per period esteso, ma sarà ripristinato)" è
già contenuto in highway=construction, ci sono anche i tag per definire
quando è prevista la riapertura (oppure le limitazioni derivanti dai lavori)




> Per una *route relation* (del tipo cycle route o hiking route) abbiamo
> due stati:
>
>- esistente
>- proposed
>
> Manca sicuramente
>
>- construction (tracce di lavoro o infrastrutture sul terreno)
>
>
se ci sono frammenti di una route, si possono inserire come route esistente
(al meno quei frammenti). Non serve aggiungere un "construction" anzi
sarebbe equivoca (credo), se si intendesse usarlo per una route
parzialmente segnalata.



> Sarebbero utili eventualmente anche
>
>- ex-route (nel senso che la segnaletica non è più curata, ma il
>percorso stesso è percorribile)
>
>
la percorribilità delle strade viene mappato a prescindere della
segnalateci turistica/degli itinerari. Una route senza segnaletica non
esiste per OSM, non è verificabile


>
>- interrotta e sanza piano di ripristino
>
> interrotta ma con piano di ripristino (= maintenance?)


interrotta la route, o la percorribilità?




>
>- vecchio percorso, nel senso che c'è un nuovo percorso che lo
>sostituisce, ma che probabilmente trovi ancora tanti riferimenti alla
>vecchia versione sulle mappe cartacce in giro, e probabilmente nessuno ha
>tolto la segnaletica)
>
>

old_ref
questo succede anche con le strade (direi che si tratta di una proprietà
della strada, perchè la route non c'è più).



>
>-
>
> C'è un po' di confusione in fatto anche nell'approccio.
>
>- Per un edificio si utilizza l'approccio dell lifecycle prefix
>abandoned:, collapsed:, disused:
>
>

no, non è consigliabile. Un edificio rimane un edificio, al meno per
disused il lifecycle prefixnon è il metodo giusto. Per collapsed sono
d'accordo, abbandoned è da valutare.
disused=yes

Ci sono 16k disused:building=* ma nell 80% dei casi sono abbinati ad un
building=*
Il wiki anche suggerisce disused=yes
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Adisused%3Abuilding


Ciao
Martin
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[Talk-it] Creazione di un Diversity and Inclusion Group in OSM Italia

[Anisa Kuci]

Ciao a tutte e tutti,

abbiamo appena creato un gruppo di (attualmente) 15 donne italiane che 
contribuiscono a OSM ma, dopo aver discusso tra noi, abbiamo pensato che 
sarebbe bello se questo gruppo non fosse solo al femminile ma aperto a 
tutte le persone che sentono di far parte di gruppi sotto-rappresentati 
all'interno della nostra comunità.


Stiamo organizzando per il 2021 una serie di incontri in collaborazione 
con altre comunità (soprattutto Diversity and Inclusion groups) del 
mondo FLOSS, con l'idea di creare una rete per condividere conoscenze ed 
esperienze.
L'obiettivo che ci poniamo è capire cosa si può fare per avere comunità 
più inclusiva e come poter lavorare insieme per avere spazi più 
accoglienti per tutti.
Al momento abbiamo fatto due incontri online per iniziare a programmare 
il progetto e il prossimo è previsto prima di Natale (non abbiamo ancora 
definito la data)
Ci piacerebbe che partecipassero, soprattutto in questa fase 
organizzativa, altre persone per dare anche le loro opinioni.

Chi fosse interessato/a può contattarmi alla mail: anisa.k...@wikimedia.it

Chiedo gentilmente a tutti/e coloro che vogliono sostenere questa 
iniziativa di condividere questa mail nelle mailing list che ritenete utili.


Grazie mille e buona giornata,
Anisa


--
Anisa Kuci
Responsabile OpenStreetMap
Wikimedia Italia - Associazione per la diffusione della conoscenza libera
Via Bergognone 34 - 20144 Milano
Tel. (+39) 02 97677170 |anisa.k...@wikimedia.it  |www.wikimedia.it


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La question des produits locaux (alimentation mais sans doute de manière plus large également)

[Vivien MICHON]

Bonjour Marc,

Super sujet le localisme, ça me plait ^^

Pour les lieux qui proposent du 100% localisme ou du X% localisme, peut-être 
prévoir de mettre en valeur ceux qui font du 100%?

Pour la définition, on touche à une acception qui va varier selon les groupes 
sociaux... Il semble difficile de s'accorder. Je propose de repartir de la 
définition proposée par Wikipédia (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localisme) 
dans laquelle l'échelle retenue pour indiquer une origine comme "locale" 
s'appuie sur des éléments concrets: "favorise la démocratie participative, la 
cohésion sociale et l'économie de proximité, donc l'emploi local et la 
préservation de l'environnement via une moindre empreinte écologique liée au 
transport de personnes et de marchandises".

Reste toujours une part d'interprétation...
Pour sûr, le localisme ne peut pas inclure un produit qui fait 20 fois le tour 
du monde avant d'être proposé au consommateur.
A distinguer au passage de la notion de circuit-court, qui elle ne fait pas 
référence à une proximité géographique.
Il y a une attention à porter à la distance parcourue par la marchandise, avec 
le coût écologique, il me semble. Mais... le chiffrage et l'estimation d'un 
seuil d'acceptabilité n'existent pas vraiment non?

Bref, dispo pour en parler oui.
Vivien

-Message d'origine-
De : Marc_marc  
Envoyé : vendredi 11 décembre 2020 08:01
À : talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] La question des produits locaux (alimentation mais 
sans doute de manière plus large également)

Bonjour,

> un commerce proposant majoritairement du local peut également proposer 
> du non local pour étoffer son offre de produits.

je me suis aussi posé cette question quand un magasin local a décidé d'ajouter 
des bananes pour diversifier son échoppe :( je ne n'ai finalement mis aucune 
origin=* pour ce magasin.

après coup la seule idée qui me vient c'est de faire comme les locavores : 
l’exception dite de Marco-pollo (les produits n'existant pas localement sont 
acceptable pour certains locavores, à l'inverse des produits importés alors 
qu'ils existent aussi localement) mais du coup quel tag ? 
origin=local;marco-pollo ?

> Quelles limites données t-on au local --> Distance, départementale, 
> régionale, ...

origin=local , origin=region , ...

sans doute faudrait-il commencer par identifier les besoins il y avait une 
demande d'aide de l'amap que j'avais retransmise ici.
d'autres ont aussi posté des url.
faudrait voir ce qu'ils renseigne pour établir la liste des tags utiles 
manquants

> est-ce que quelques personnes seraient intéressées par creuser cette 
> question, en janvier en visio ?

je suis partant, en texte ou en visio, voir les 2 tellement il y a matière à 
dégrossir :)

Cordialement,
Marc




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Re: [Talk-es] Importación del Catastro de Negreira

[Miguel Sevilla-Callejo]

Hola Nico,


Lo primero es agradecete que trajeras la cuestión a la lista de correos
desde la sala de mensajería instantánea en Telegram/Riot/Element.


Para crear una tarea en tareas.openstreetmap.es debes tener privilegios
de administración allí, de todos modos prueba a ver, o si no ponte en
contacto con alguno del os administradores, @sanchi, por ejemplo, para
que te ayuden con ello.


Ah! y Enhorabuena por las ediciones y el progreso. Todo un ejemplo a seguir.


Saludos


Miguel


On 11/12/2020 11:15, Nicolás Vieites Sueiro wrote:
> Buenos días,
>
> Viendo que el Concello de Negreira a alcanzado el nivel de
> "Finalizado" en el proyecto #1calle1nombre, he decidido comenzar una
> importación del catastro.
> Para ello, antes de nada, he hecho una comprobación de que todos los
> lugares y calles del concello están correctamente en OSM, siguiendo el
> método de la wiki del proyecto de importación (generando los archivos
> address.osm, highway_names.csv, etc.). Ayer he finalizado de comprobar
> esto, y creo que ya están todas las direcciones.
> He generado los archivos necesarios para la importación con la
> herramienta catatom2osm tal y como se indica en la wiki, y hace un
> rato he hecho una pull request
>  con dichos
> archivos al repositorio de github habilitado para tal fin.
> Supongo que ahora, el siguiente paso sería crear la tarea en el gestor
> de tareas, pero desconozco si esto lo puedo hacer yo por mi cuenta
> también, o necesito que alguien lo haga por mí.
>
> Un salúdo a todos. 
>
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pEpkey.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys
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[OSM-talk-fr] Évolution de l'IGN, ouverture de données

[Vincent Bergeot]

Bonjour,

pour information 
https://www.ign.fr/publications-de-l-ign/institut/informations_legales_administratives/deliberation_evolution_tarification_licences_dec2020.pdf


Cela part de cet oiseau bleu 
https://twitter.com/SylvainLatarget/status/1337304477867630594


"Les premières données disponibles seront :
la #BDTOPO ; la #BDORTHO France entière ; la pyramide #PlanIGN.
D'autres données seront progressivement disponibles en téléchargement et 
en flux."


Bonne journée

--
Vincent Bergeot


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[OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Allan Mustard]

I apologize if this is a duplicate, but I received notices from Google
Mail that the message below sent to both osmf-talk and talk was not
delivered "because the address couldn't be found, or is unable to
receive mail."  I am therefore retransmitting the message using my home
email address.  apm

To the OSM and OSMF communities:

I convey the following information on behalf of the Board of
Directors of the OpenStreetMap Foundation.

An outcome of the current controversy on the osmf-talk mailing list
over misogynistic language is a decision by the Board as follows:

> The Board will find partners to help instate a moderator team for
> the OSMF-talk and talk mailing lists. These moderators need to
> have the trust of the community subject to the moderation (consent
> of the governed) by some kind of approval mechanism. This
> moderator team will start to work on enforcing the current
> Etiquette guidelines as soon as possible. We will also start work
> on updating/replacing our Etiquette rules, which must focus on
> balancing all participants' interests.

We have asked the Local Chapters and Communities Working Group
(LCCWG ) to take the lead on this and to work with signatories of
the open letter to the Board [1] as well as members of the Diversity
and Inclusion Special Committee to produce proposals for the Board
to consider at its January meeting.  The LCCWG has accepted this
task.  This issue will be on the agenda of the January meeting of
the Board of Directors, exact time and date yet to be determined,
though as is customary it will be posted to the Foundation's website
well in advance.

Members of the OSM community are, as always, welcome to share their
opinions and any relevant information on this matter, either
publicly via osmf-talk, or privately in direct communications to the
LCCWG.  I feel compelled to remind all members of the community that
a Code of Etiquette [2] has existed since June 2011 and shall be
observed by all community members.

Very best  regards to all,
apm

[1]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?ts=5fd11436#heading=h.ccgtgjykcfgh


[2] https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Etiquette


---
/Allan Mustard, Chairperson/
/Board of Directors/
/OpenStreetMap Foundation/

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Re: [Talk-dk] 2 minus 1 vej

[sfromis]

På en 2-minus-1 som jeg af og til kører på understreger nogle sæt pullerter
ved den brudte kantstribe at vejen skal ses som "smal". Modkørende biler
kan altså være nødt til at holde tilbage for at kunne passere. Pullerterne
kan måske kaldes for små stumper kantsten, stod der ikke da vejen først
blev malet som 2-minus-1 vej, og fremgår pt ikke af Mapillary eller Google
streetview. Asfaltbredden er altså uegnet til ruteplanlægning, og uden at
have nærstuderet regler tvivler jeg også derudover på at det vil være ok at
ruteplanlægge efter asfaltbredden i stedet for den ene gennemførte kørebane
der er. Alternativt kunne vejbredden gøres smallere ved pullerterne. Fandt
et delvis lignende eksempel

på Google streetview, hvor det dog samtidig er et moderat vejbump.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Is "GB revert request log" wiki page something that should be recommended?

[Andy Townsend]

On 11/12/2020 10:17, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:
It is about https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GB_revert_request_log 
 that appears

to be abandoned.

I believe that that was set up to deal with a particular 
"overenthusiastic / fantasy contributor" a few years ago.


Similar requests for community action these days tend to be made in IRC 
or on this list, or (to the DWG) via the usual direct methods (email or 
"report user").


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-dk] 2 minus 1 vej

[Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk]

Det er nok et fortolkningsspørgsmål:

 * Forestil dig en kæmpe asfaltflade, hvor der hen over er optegnet en
   vej. Der vil man nok hævde at vejens bredde er mellem de fuldt
   optrukne linjer, mens man måske ville finde en anden måde at angive
   bredden på selve asfaltfladen.
 * Forestil dig en vej med kantsten, men hvor der stadig er fuldt
   optrukne linjer tegnet på asfalten, der ville man nok side at
   afstanden gik fra kantsten til kantsten (et eksempel her:
   cVPnOHZ1ThQs7Z2D_Z4cuw
   
   [mapillary.com])

Men helt konkret, ved en 2-minus-1-vej der er der jo netop IKKE fuldt 
optrukne linjer op ad vognbanen i midten. I det tilfælder giver det nok 
mest mening at sige fra asfaltkant til asfaltkant.


On 2020-12-10 17:13, Lars Gravengaard wrote:


OK alm.vej er det asfalt brede eller brede mellem fuldt optukne linier?

For så skal vi vel også til at måle bredden på grus rabatten? For der 
kan man jo også køre ud.


Mvh
Lars Bloch Gravengaard



tor. d. 10. dec. 2020 16.46 skrev Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk 
mailto:talk-dk@openstreetmap.org>>:


Hvilket vil være misvisende. Forestil dig et køretøj der skal
finde vej alt efter hvor bred vejen FAKTISK er. Da vil den vise at
det på ingen måde er muligt at passere på grund af for lidt bredde
på vejen, selvom det faktisk er.

On 2020-12-10 09:33, Lars Gravengaard wrote:

Hvad med at angive vejbreden til mål mellem de stiplede streger?

Så kan ruteberegningen måske vælge en anden rute / se at ruten
tager længere tid.

Mvh
Lars Bloch Gravengaard


tor. d. 10. dec. 2020 07.05 skrev mailto:o...@workmail.com>>:

Jeg køber Mikko's forslag.

Vejdirektoratet & COWI definerer vejtypen således:
"En 2 minus 1 vej er en vej, som visuelt kun har én vognbane,
der benyttes af trafikanter i begge retninger, og hvor der er
etableret brudte kantlinjer i begge sider af vejen.
Kantbanerne benyttes af cyklister og fodgængere og som
vigeareal, når to modkørende trafikanter mødes. Kantbanerne
er ikke forbeholdt bløde trafikanter – den brudte kantlinje
må gerne overskrides af køretøjer".



Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:46 AM
From: "Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk"
mailto:talk-dk@openstreetmap.org>>
To: talk-dk@openstreetmap.org 
Cc: "Mikko Lukas Räsaänen" mailto:lists.openstreetmap@a22.dk>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-dk] 2 minus 1 vej
Mit forslag er:
highway=*
cycleway=shared_lanes     <- den er ikke til diskussion, for
det er hvad det er
Om man derefter vil tagge med en af disse tænker jeg er op
til én selv. De giver det samme resultat:
lanes=1
oneway=nolanes:both_ways=1 Under alle omstændigheder skal
2-minus-1-veje aldrig tagges med lanes=2, da det er en helt
anden vejtype som faktisk har to lanes:

vPMKB9xfS_IWpMbXnSxv2A[https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=vPMKB9xfS_IWpMbXnSxv2A=photo

]
[mapillary.com ]

Om man vil tilføje description=2-minus-1-vej, må være op til
en selv.

Det kan der ud over være nyttigt, som Asger Frank skriver, at
være på udkig efter fartbegrænsninger (de eksisterer nogle,
men ikke alle, steder),
og det kan være nyttigt at tjekke bredden på vejen.


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Re: [Talk-dk] 2 minus 1 vej

[Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk]

width:lanes=* var hvad jeg mente

On 2020-12-10 16:45, Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk wrote:


En korrekt måde at angive bredden på vejbanen er lanes:width=*

On 2020-12-10 09:33, Lars Gravengaard wrote:

Hvad med at angive vejbreden til mål mellem de stiplede streger?

Så kan ruteberegningen måske vælge en anden rute / se at ruten tager 
længere tid.


Mvh
Lars Bloch Gravengaard


tor. d. 10. dec. 2020 07.05 skrev >:


Jeg køber Mikko's forslag.

Vejdirektoratet & COWI definerer vejtypen således:
"En 2 minus 1 vej er en vej, som visuelt kun har én vognbane, der
benyttes af trafikanter i begge retninger, og hvor der er
etableret brudte kantlinjer i begge sider af vejen. Kantbanerne
benyttes af cyklister og fodgængere og som vigeareal, når to
modkørende trafikanter mødes. Kantbanerne er ikke forbeholdt
bløde trafikanter – den brudte kantlinje må gerne overskrides af
køretøjer".



Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:46 AM
From: "Mikko Lukas Räsaänen via Talk-dk"
mailto:talk-dk@openstreetmap.org>>
To: talk-dk@openstreetmap.org 
Cc: "Mikko Lukas Räsaänen" mailto:lists.openstreetmap@a22.dk>>
Subject: Re: [Talk-dk] 2 minus 1 vej
Mit forslag er:
highway=*
cycleway=shared_lanes     <- den er ikke til diskussion, for det
er hvad det er
Om man derefter vil tagge med en af disse tænker jeg er op til én
selv. De giver det samme resultat:
lanes=1
oneway=nolanes:both_ways=1 Under alle omstændigheder skal
2-minus-1-veje aldrig tagges med lanes=2, da det er en helt anden
vejtype som faktisk har to lanes:

vPMKB9xfS_IWpMbXnSxv2A[https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=vPMKB9xfS_IWpMbXnSxv2A=photo
]
[mapillary.com ]

Om man vil tilføje description=2-minus-1-vej, må være op til en selv.

Det kan der ud over være nyttigt, som Asger Frank skriver, at
være på udkig efter fartbegrænsninger (de eksisterer nogle, men
ikke alle, steder),
og det kan være nyttigt at tjekke bredden på vejen.


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Re: [Talk-it] Laguna di Venezia verso Chioggia davanti Codevigo lungo la Romea

[Volker Schmidt]

E', come tutta la laguna, un terreno difficile da mappare. Ci sono pochi
posti che sono (quasi) sempre sopra il livello dell'acqua. Tanti che sono
anfibi, e poi i canali profondi che sono sempre sott'acqua. Il problema in
particolare sono i terreni anfibi, che sono almeno di due tipi: le isole
che sono sporgono quasi sempre, e i piccoli canali che sono percorribili
con barche piatte con marea, ma non senza marea.
Inoltre ci sarebbe anche il discorso dei toponimi. In laguna ogno canaletto
ha un nome. Ci sarebbero le carte nautiche, ma non so che licenza hanno.

Non sono del posto, e per questo non ho mai affrontato il problema. Al
massimo ho fatto alcuni giri in kayak con una guida locale per non perdermi.



Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 10:52, Cascafico Giovanni 
wrote:

> Ho dato un'occhiata, non rilevando cancellazioni; diciamo che la parte
> meridionale, meno famosa e con molti accessi privati, è stata
> trascurata. Il poligono della laguna di venezia [1] ha ovviamente
> parecchi vertici, ma nella la parte sud si diradano.
> Ho iniziato a dettagliare con inner, islet ed aggiungendo vertici al
> poligonone, ma forse è il caso di spezzarlo prima di aggiungere
> dettagli.
>
>
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3049430
>
> Il 11/12/20, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:
> > E' un vecchio problema nella Laguna che alcuni pezzi della coast line non
> > sono corrette. L'avevo segnalato anni in dietro.
> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> >
> > Virus-free.
> > www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> >
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 22:56, Peppe via Talk-it <
> talk-it@openstreetmap.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Osservando la mappa della zona ho osservato una possibile problematica
> in
> >> laguna con la zona ricoperta interamente d'acqua e alcune strade
> sembrano
> >> sommerse. Non essendomi mai occupato di landuse marini segnalo la cosa
> >> nel
> >> caso qualcuno di più esperto possa controllare.
> >> Saluti
> >> ___
> >> Talk-it mailing list
> >> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
> >>
> >
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Due punti sulla mappa...

[Volker Schmidt]

Chi fa il ripristino della A31 danneggiata (la parte esistente)?


A parte questo.
Mi sembra che il nostro tagging ha una strana asimmetria.

Per *un way* (per esempio un pezzo di strada) abbiamo tre stati:

   - esistente,
   - construction,
   - proposed

Sarebbero desiderabili

   - esistente fisicamente ma non ancora aperta al traffico
   - esistente fisicamente ma non più in uso
   - maintenance (chiuso per period esteso, ma sarà ripristinato)


Per una *route relation* (del tipo cycle route o hiking route) abbiamo due
stati:

   - esistente
   - proposed

Manca sicuramente

   - construction (tracce di lavoro o infrastrutture sul terreno)

Sarebbero utili eventualmente anche

   - ex-route (nel senso che la segnaletica non è più curata, ma il
   percorso stesso è percorribile)
   - interrotta e sanza piano di ripristino
   - interrotta ma con piano di ripristino (= maintenance?)
   - vecchio percorso, nel senso che c'è un nuovo percorso che lo
   sostituisce, ma che probabilmente trovi ancora tanti riferimenti alla
   vecchia versione sulle mappe cartacce in giro, e probabilmente nessuno ha
   tolto la segnaletica)

C'è un po' di confusione in fatto anche nell'approccio.

   - Per un edificio si utilizza l'approccio dell lifecycle prefix
   abandoned:, collapsed:, disused:
   - Per edifici e strade si utilizza l'approccio construction:
   highway=construction e construction=primary o highway=proposed,
   proposed=primary






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On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 at 10:10, Alessandro Sarretta <
alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ciao Gianluca,
> On 11/12/20 09:18, Gianluca Boero wrote:
>
> Ciao a tutti.
>
> Dalla mappa Osm, se ricerco un percorso e inserisco con un Drag and Drop
> il simbolo verde di inizio percorso ed il simbolo rosso di fine percorso,
> mi ricerca il percorso più consono alla ricerca, preferendo percorsi
> stradali.
>
> Come faccio a selezionare un percorso inserendo altre alternative da me
> ricercate, ad esempio voglio andare dal punto A sino al punto B passando
> però non da C e D ma da E , poi da F ed infine da G.
>
> ti consiglio di dare un'occhiata a https://maps.openrouteservice.org che
> permette molte ulteriori customizzazioni rispetto al sito
> openstreetmap.org
>
> Ale
>
> P.S. ti consiglio inoltre di non aprire nuovi topic rispondendo a e-mail
> precedenti, altrimenti sembra appartengano alla stessa discussione :-)
> --
>
> Alessandro Sarretta
>
> skype/twitter: alesarrett
> Web: ilsarrett.wordpress.com
>
> Research information:
>
>- Google scholar profile
>
>- ORCID 
>- Research Gate
>
>- Impactstory 
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>
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[Talk-GB] Is "GB revert request log" wiki page something that should be recommended?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB]

It is about https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GB_revert_request_log that 
appears
to be abandoned.

I was looking through 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Abuse and 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism
to improve them, and encountered

"It may be appropriate to set up a log of reversions. Within 
England/Wales/Scotland
please put requests on the GB revert request log 
."

Is it still true, or is it something that should be deleted?

Last edit is in 2012 so it seems clearly abandoned
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=GB_revert_request_log=history
and I removed this from Vandalism page
in 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Vandalism=2071209=2071207
edit.

Please let me know if it was a mistake and this recommendation should be 
restored.
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[Talk-es] Importación del Catastro de Negreira

[Nicolás Vieites Sueiro]

Buenos días,

Viendo que el Concello de Negreira a alcanzado el nivel de "Finalizado" en el 
proyecto #1calle1nombre, he decidido comenzar una importación del catastro.
Para ello, antes de nada, he hecho una comprobación de que todos los lugares y 
calles del concello están correctamente en OSM, siguiendo el método de la wiki 
del proyecto de importación (generando los archivos address.osm, 
highway_names.csv, etc.). Ayer he finalizado de comprobar esto, y creo que ya 
están todas las direcciones.
He generado los archivos necesarios para la importación con la herramienta 
catatom2osm tal y como se indica en la wiki, y hace un rato he hecho una pull 
request con dichos archivos 
al repositorio de github habilitado para tal fin.
Supongo que ahora, el siguiente paso sería crear la tarea en el gestor de 
tareas, pero desconozco si esto lo puedo hacer yo por mi cuenta también, o 
necesito que alguien lo haga por mí.

Un salúdo a todos.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

>Hi


Hello Tony,


>I like the idea.

>Can it be extended to be a UK based map which is has greater prominence to 
>aspects such as the >recent discussion about cyclists and paths?


Potentially, yes - I don't see why not.

I have to admit I personally haven't had much experience in recent years with 
creating mapnik stylesheets (I've been working with client-side renderers such 
as Kothic and have played with Tangram), hence my suggestion earlier of 
starting with Andy Townsend's style.


>Does anyone have an idea of how it could be made to happen - could we (OSM UK) 
>fund and >maintain it with commitment for say 2 years? Using volunteers or 
>donated equipment or personal >funding commitments? Do we know the size of 
>server required to support a given load? Can we >manage the required 
>operations and security?

In the early stages I think we could run it on cheap hosting hardware, like 
most projects in the OSM ecosystem. I suspect for a while usage would be light 
and limited to those in the OSM community. I use Hetzner for my hosting 
(OpenTrailView, Hikar, MapThePaths) - I pay around EUR 19/month but that is for 
a larger system that has to deal with the whole of Europe rather than just the 
UK.

 https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb

The second-lowest spec of these, the CPX11 is giving you 2GB RAM and 40GB disc 
space for EUR 4.19 a month. OK we'd need more than that long term, but I 
suspect that would get us going in the early stages.

I'm quite happy to create the server and pay the initial costs, but it would be 
good if funds could be found from OSMUK longer term if possible.

I'm also happy to do some dev work (client and server side). I can tweak the 
cartography and add contours (I have experience doing this) but I'll leave it 
up to others to do serious cartography work, and of course web design.

Or, we could even use client-side rendering, Tangram is pretty powerful, have 
had a play with it.

Would be a great project for the community to work on.

Nick



From: Tony Shield 
Sent: 10 December 2020 17:36
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application -- -& server


Hi

I like the idea.

Can it be extended to be a UK based map which is has greater prominence to 
aspects such as the recent discussion about cyclists and paths?


Does anyone have an idea of how it could be made to happen - could we (OSM UK) 
fund and maintain it with commitment for say 2 years? Using volunteers or 
donated equipment or personal funding commitments? Do we know the size of 
server required to support a given load? Can we manage the required operations 
and security?


Tony Shield - TonyS999




On 04/12/2020 15:40, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:
Hi,

Just floating an idea for a possible OSMUK site, namely an OSMUK 
'semi-official'  web application for walkers and hikers.

This could provide similar functionality to sites such as the Ramblers' 
Pathwatch 
(https://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/pathwatch-report-path-features-and-problems.aspx)
 allowing users to report path problems as well as nice views, historical sites 
and so on. It could also provide info such as train or bus times (by clicking 
on a rail station), beers served (for a pub), routing via public transport to a 
given countryside location, and so on.

Reported path problems could be then made available via an API, which could be 
used by councils - and, given we have the council ROW data available to us via 
rowmaps.com  - the right of way reference could be sourced from this if it's 
not in OSM already.

For rendering, we could perhaps use Andy Townsend's SomeoneElse-style, maybe 
tweaked a little, as it appears to be the most actively maintained of all the 
England and Wales renderings. This could be setup on our own server, I seem to 
remember experimenting with this a couple of years ago when the OSMUK idea was 
first floated, on a server which had been loaned to the community (I need to 
re-check my emails, and indeed check if this server is still open for us to 
use!)

I've done similar things to this in the past on a small scale, e.g. Freemap 
(free-map.org.uk) once had the facility to add path problems, but now we have 
the OSMUK organisation in existence, maybe a semi-official OSMUK walkers' map 
with added functionality would have greater traction and it's something that 
could be launched as a project on GitHub?

Thanks,
Nick



Disclaimer



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Re: [Talk-it] Laguna di Venezia verso Chioggia davanti Codevigo lungo la Romea

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Ho dato un'occhiata, non rilevando cancellazioni; diciamo che la parte
meridionale, meno famosa e con molti accessi privati, è stata
trascurata. Il poligono della laguna di venezia [1] ha ovviamente
parecchi vertici, ma nella la parte sud si diradano.
Ho iniziato a dettagliare con inner, islet ed aggiungendo vertici al
poligonone, ma forse è il caso di spezzarlo prima di aggiungere
dettagli.


[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3049430

Il 11/12/20, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:
> E' un vecchio problema nella Laguna che alcuni pezzi della coast line non
> sono corrette. L'avevo segnalato anni in dietro.
>
> 
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 at 22:56, Peppe via Talk-it 
> wrote:
>
>> Osservando la mappa della zona ho osservato una possibile problematica in
>> laguna con la zona ricoperta interamente d'acqua e alcune strade sembrano
>> sommerse. Non essendomi mai occupato di landuse marini segnalo la cosa
>> nel
>> caso qualcuno di più esperto possa controllare.
>> Saluti
>> ___
>> Talk-it mailing list
>> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>>
>

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Re: [Talk-it] Due punti sulla mappa...

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Ciao Gianluca,

On 11/12/20 09:18, Gianluca Boero wrote:

Ciao a tutti.

Dalla mappa Osm, se ricerco un percorso e inserisco con un Drag and 
Drop il simbolo verde di inizio percorso ed il simbolo rosso di fine 
percorso, mi ricerca il percorso più consono alla ricerca, preferendo 
percorsi stradali.


Come faccio a selezionare un percorso inserendo altre alternative da 
me ricercate, ad esempio voglio andare dal punto A sino al punto B 
passando però non da C e D ma da E , poi da F ed infine da G.


ti consiglio di dare un'occhiata a https://maps.openrouteservice.org che 
permette molte ulteriori customizzazioni rispetto al sito openstreetmap.org


Ale

P.S. ti consiglio inoltre di non aprire nuovi topic rispondendo a e-mail 
precedenti, altrimenti sembra appartengano alla stessa discussione :-)


--

Alessandro Sarretta

skype/twitter: alesarrett
Web: ilsarrett.wordpress.com 

Research information:

 * Google scholar profile
   
 * ORCID 
 * Research Gate 
 * Impactstory 

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[Talk-it] Due punti sulla mappa...

[Gianluca Boero]

Ciao a tutti.

Dalla mappa Osm, se ricerco un percorso e inserisco con un Drag and Drop 
il simbolo verde di inizio percorso ed il simbolo rosso di fine 
percorso, mi ricerca il percorso più consono alla ricerca, preferendo 
percorsi stradali.


Come faccio a selezionare un percorso inserendo altre alternative da me 
ricercate, ad esempio voglio andare dal punto A sino al punto B passando 
però non da C e D ma da E , poi da F ed infine da G.


Grazie...

Ciao...Gianluca



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[Diversity-talk] Informal Community talk - Saturday December 12, 2020 - 1500 utc

[Heather Leson]

Hello colleagues

This has been a week. We are hosting a diversity talk - community gathering
just to be supportive and consider next steps after the call to action.

This will be a safe and inclusive conversation following the diversity talk
code of conduct.

There will be an informal meeting on Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 1500
UTC (right before the AGM)

*Register to join please (2)
*

I can even set up small groups so that people can just get to know each
other. Feel free to share with other allies.

All welcome.

Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com
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Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of conduct

[Heather Leson]

HI Jo, thanks for this comment. I added it into the document and people are
now discussing.

Thank you again for all the support over the years

Heather
Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 9:14 PM Jo Walsh  wrote:

>
> Not sure how to make suggestions directly in the Google Doc or if i want
> to.
>
> I appreciate and feel broadly its sentiments but do not feel prepared to
> sign anything which has as a preamble an attack on one person, whatever the
> trigger. It's not equitable, risks entrenching the division. Principles
> sound but keep it about how things should be in a better world, not about
> how broken they are in this one.
>
>
> zx
> --
>   Jo Walsh
>   metaz...@fastmail.net
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020, at 2:29 AM, arnalie faye vicario wrote:
> > Hello/*Kumusta*,
> >
> > *Salamat*/Thanks everyone for continuing the conversations and taking
> > this seriously.
> >
> > It is good to speak up and comment about it in our individual
> > capacities, but a collective can build a fire  (charcoal comparison).
> >
> > This is what we did in OSM PH's Call to Correct Narratives About
> > Geospatial Work in the Philippines (re: Amazon-HOT video).
> > <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/aa/A_Call_to_Correct_Narratives_about_Geospatial_Work.pdf
> >
> >
> > Also, I would like to quote and highlight what David Garcia
> > (@mapmakerdavid) has shared in Twitter:
> > > It is not just the maps that matters. Who *makes* the maps matters.
> Who *tells* the stories of the mapping matters, too. Who *LEADS* the
> mapping and storytelling also matters. Who *gets powerful* due to the
> mapping and storytelling matters most.
> >
> > Thank you Geochicas, Celine @mapeadora, Heather, Rebecca, Miriam
> > @mapanauta, Nelson Minar, LCCWG Group, OSMF past/present Board members
> > (Kate, Rory and Mikel), HOT Community WG and everyone who expressed
> > support and has spoken up (apologies if I missed your name). It is
> > really encouraging and inspiring. Please add your thoughts in the
> > document:
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
> >
> > In case you missed it (like me), here is what Celine sent in the OSM
> > talk mailing list:
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085727.html
> .
> >
> > Let us keep the fire burning!
> >
> > =Arnalie
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:54 AM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
> > > I should mention that what we, Maggie Crawely, Rob Nickerson and
> myself, want to accomplish is to create a committee to moderate the
> existing etiquette guidelines and later update the guidelines to reflect
> best practices of Code of Conducts.We planned to form a sub committee under
> the LCCWG since CoC is critical to Local Chapters. We did a survey of Local
> Chapters and those considering forming one. The results showed that 5 LC
> already had a CoC, 6 did not and 6 were consider or in a discussion to have
> a CoC.
> > >
> > > Clifford
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:36 PM Heather Leson 
> wrote:
> > >> Always
> > >> Heather Leson
> > >> heatherle...@gmail.com
> > >> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> > >> Blog: textontechs.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:31 PM Clifford Snow <
> cliff...@snowandsnow.us> wrote:
> > >>> Heather - A small group of the LCCWG met via BigBlueButton yesterday
> to start a similar initiative. I was going to send an invite to the rest of
> the LCCWG as well as to this mailing list. Since you have the ball rolling,
> can you include lo...@osmfoundation.org in the mailing.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:22 PM Heather Leson 
> wrote:
> >  Great. working in the draft now.
> > 
> >  Thank you right back. Saturday is just a way to discuss this
> restart. We can keep building.
> > 
> >  Heather
> > 
> >  Heather Leson
> >  heatherle...@gmail.com
> >  Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> >  Blog: textontechs.com
> > 
> > 
> >  On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:10 PM Gertrude Namitala <
> trudyho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks Heather for starting this. I will try to be available.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Trudy
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, 23:05 Mikel Maron, 
> wrote:
> > >> This is great
> > >>
> > >> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020, 03:55:49 PM EST, Heather Leson <
> heatherle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Great!   Editing now
> > >> Hope we can have an initial chat
> > >>
> > >> heather
> > >>
> > >> Heather Leson
> > >> heatherle...@gmail.com
> > >> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> > >> Blog: textontechs.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:33 PM Rebecca Firth <
> rebecca.fi...@hotosm.org> wrote:
> > 

Re: [Talk-it] Eliminazioni massive del tratto A31 Nord

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Provando a riassumere, se non ho capito male, x Deamon ha inserito, 
ormai alcuni mesi fa, dei tratti del progetto Valdastico Nord segnandoli 
come hygway=construction, mentre willycat alcuni giorni fa li ha 
cancellati, però facendo alcuni casini.


A mio parere, i tratti di strada oggetto di discussione possono essere 
inseriti in OSM solamente se parte di un progetto esecutivo approvato, 
non se solamente in fase di ipotesi. Nel caso specifico, sicuramente non 
devono essere segnati come "construction", visto che non ci sono lavori 
in atto.


Se così è, io sarei per un revert che porti la situazione prima 
dell'inserimento dei tratti "construction" che in realtà non sono 
affatto in costruzione. Chiedo però a qualcuno più esperto in revert 
come questo debba essere gestito per evitare di compromettere edits 
successivi connessi.


Ale

On 10/12/20 23:46, Peppe via Talk-it wrote:


Concordo con Davide pure io ho trovato qualche modifica futuristica di 
xDeamon diciamo discutibile o quantomeno da riportare a tutti prima di 
farla.

Se sono state cancellate strade esistenti cmq vanno ripristinate

giovedì, 10 dicembre 2020, 11:40PM +01:00 da Davide Sandona 
sandona.dav...@gmail.com :


E' una questione complessa.

Negli ultimi mesi l'utente xDeamon si è occupato di inserire su
OSM diversi percorsi stradali attualmente in fase di
progettazione, quali l'A31 Nord, segnalandoli con gli opportuni
tag "construction".
Una decina di giorni fa ho provato a contattarlo via messaggio
privato, per capire l'utilità di queste informazioni.
Personalmente, non trovo nessun senso nell'inserire in OSM
tracciati che non sono ancora costruiti, né tantomeno approvati.
Sottolineo che non sono l'utente che fatto l'eliminazione massiva,
tuttavia mi trovo d'accordo con la sua modifica.

In relazione al tracciato A31 nord sono già apparse diverse note
(per esempio 2446844, 2446838). Non c'è ombra di dubbio che l'A31
Nord sia un argomento scottante. Tuttavia non ritengo che OSM sia
il posto giusto per scatenare una polemica su questa autostrada
controversa. Secondo la mia opinione, fintantoché non c'è un
progetto approvato con un via libera ai lavori, nessuna
informazione riguardante l'A31 nord dovrebbe essere presente in
OSM. Secondo me, OSM dovrebbe rappresentare lo stato attuale della
mappa, non uno stato passato, e sicuramente non uno stato futuro.

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/xDeamon

Davide.


Il giorno gio 10 dic 2020 alle ore 23:21 Matteo Zaffonato
mailto:zaff...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:

Ciao a tutti,
nei giorni scorsi ho notato alcune cancellazioni massive del
tratto autostradale riportato nell'oggetto. I changeset
coinvolti sono:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382919
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382753
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95382323
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368752
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368387
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/95368211

Ho già contattato l'utente per un confronto e segnalato
l'anomalia su OSMCHA, come devo comportarmi secondo voi?

Ciao, grazie
Matteo
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--
--

Alessandro Sarretta

skype/twitter: alesarrett
Web: ilsarrett.wordpress.com 

Research information:

 * Google scholar profile
   
 * ORCID 
 * Research Gate 
 * Impactstory 

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Open Street Misogynie ?

[Christian Quest]

Jean-Yvon, je pense que:

1) citer la partie la plus choquante du message qui a enflammé talk@ est 
très malvenue,


2) commenter les commentaires et "boulettes puantes" de talk@ (que 
beaucoup ici ne lisent pas) n'était pas l'objet de la discussion que 
j'ai ouvert pour parler de notre communauté.


Si on pouvait éviter de dériver dans cette direction, je pense que ça 
serait préférable.



--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk] Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Maarten Deen]

On 2020-12-10 19:49, Yves via talk wrote:

Niels, Arnalielsewhere post wasn't about mapping, the map is used to
illustrate something.
I agree with others comments pledging for more time to be taken to
read someone else's lines.


Then I struggle to see the relevance. The whole blogpost seems to be a 
call against (apparent) male preference to take the short (and 
dangerous) route, with extension that the male will only take the longer 
less dangerous route to please the female.


I'm not sure how to apply that to OSM governance.
If it is about the points: 1: agree, 2: ok, noted. Which is one of my 
fears when even looking at women, that they see me as someone who wants 
to attack them, just because I look at them (i.e. see them, not "check 
them out"). 3: yes.


So, which path do we choose to take? I can not answer that. I have taken 
my own path in OSM and mapping and I think I added value to OSM using 
that path. I also like to think I have never exhibited offensive 
behaviour to women or others in OSM but that is a statment only others 
can affirm.


So I really struggle to see the relevance. At least in my case. And I 
struggle to see the underlying institutionalized method that seems te be 
felt.
I also have to agree with user_5589's last comment to the blogpost. To 
have certain seats allocated to certain groups of people will give 
others more reason to say "you are only here because we have to have you 
here, not because you have a valuable input on the matter". And that is 
something we very much need to avoid.
It will also weaken OSM if you don't have the best person for the job. 
And that person may be black, white, male, female, straight, gay, 
catholic, muslim, facebook employee or independent, or whatever the 
person identifies as.


Regards,
Maarten

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