Re: [talk-au] Hitting reset on talk-au
Maybe you have a better option? Yes. It already happened. Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Reassurance and Licensing
On 4 May 2011 06:49, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: Just remind yourselves that if CC-by and CC-by-SA are good enough for our government, they are good enough for us... Who is us, in this case? This is the Australian list, in case you didn't realise ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors
If you want to do some mapping from home, then BING imagery is usually more than adequete and is and will continue to be OSM comliant. This way your efforts will not be in vain whether you stay with OSM, or branch off to another project. I map in places where the best imagery is usually Landsat. Don't get excited about Bing imagery. Outside of the bigger Australian cities it is targeted at commercial targets - mining sites and around where I live, the growing of illegal crops. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] 12nm territorial borders - useful or rubbish?
I've been thinking about the 12nm territorial borders on sea that we have in many places, notably in Europe. Many of them seem to have been auto-generated by simply placing a buffer around the coastline. My first question is, do they really have legal significance? They Just that it's clear that not all are automatically generated: at least the Finnish border at the sea between Finland and Sweden (and Estonia) was translated (another coordinate system) from a Finnish law containing the corner points - the zones of different countries even meet at three sections, and thus affect the distance from the shore. the questions become 1) are the sources of the lines marked? 2) are the positions of the lines rated as to certainty? 3) how would a mapper reviewing them decide where to work next? 4) should they be rendered in mapnik? 5) should they be in a file formatted for garmin users? 6) how do we communicate the accuracy to garmin users? i think that they are valuable pieces of information which need to be very accurate to be useful. Currently rendered in purple on mapnik they are more noticeable than the coastline, which may suit some purposes, but looks quite odd on island states. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] highway=unsurfaced
On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 19:30 +, Steve Doerr wrote: Nothing official, but it would be very unusual for anybody to call something that wasn't surfaced a road. Unless they were expatriates in a third-world country? please refrain from such remarks - I suppose you think we map by snake charming while riding on elephant back? -- I considered that remark yesterday while driving at 80kmh on a well made unsurfaced road in what is probably a second-world country, although the term has never been commonly used. My rough method of deciding track or road would be: A track is made by feet or wheels and is not 'improved'. A road will have had work done on it to 'improve' the surface, for example with a grader. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Aligning admin boundaries (including those resulting from ABS 2006 imported data) to coastline..
. Can we can just confine the discussion to coastline then? As you say, there is unlikely to be a definitive answer for other boundaries, but the coast is the coast, yes? The Victorian coastline changes too - especially along the limestone Shipwreck Coast to the east of Warrnambool. What was the 12 Apostles is now closer to 8 http://www.greatoceanroad.com/ezpz/Attractions/40 but while the coastline is constantly altering the admin boundary is expected to remain unaltered ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Aligning admin boundaries (including those resulting from ABS 2006 imported data) to coastline..
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:29 PM, ed...@billiau.net wrote: but while the coastline is constantly altering the admin boundary is expected to remain unaltered Do you think? Surely those admin boundaries are expressed as to the high tide mark or something, not to some arbitrary coordinate which. Anyone know? Steve I'm staying at the surveyor's house, but he's just gone out. The principle is that the definition is made by statute which is clear. Then the marks are placed by the surveyors, and regardless of error, that's where they stay. He was just telling us that the eastern border of WA is the only one which is the same on the ground as in statute. There's lots of case law in Australia on this matter, particularly over the Vic-SA border. But I can't confirm this with the local expert right now. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Victorian Coastline
If you want to just keep the ABS data in OSM as a pure copy of the ABS data, and not modify it even where it is obviously supposed to follow the coastline, but just misses it, then what is the point of having it the ABS data contained within the OSM to begin with? It may as well just be a layer outside of it. Ian. if the AS data is melded with other stuff in OSM then we have great difficulty in amending / updating / editing it. you mention another layer but this isn't easily available ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Victorian Coastline
As an aside, as large and as remote in parts of Australia are, I'd be surprised if you could put your finger on a way that will never be touched again, either by on the ground survey, or by aerial photography review. If you'd care to name one, I'd be happy to place a wager! Ian. I don´t gamble, a religious objection. However I have been to quite a number of places that no-one is expected to go to again. We´ve turned off the beaten track to map some odd spots just for OSM, to get that last bit of data, and we have no intention of returning. These places have landsat as the best aerial imagery available in Jan 2011, so don´t expect to see any aerial imagery used as an update. Secondly my son doing mineral exploration has been to a number of spots to which no-one will return - places where they found nothing under the ground. I´m not naming any - making a list will make people deliberately make sure they get that last piece of the jigsaw puzzle. You can check the diffs between the CC-by-SA data and the ODbL data when the new set exists and work out how long it takes to get the data. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Tropic of Cancer(Slightly OT)
Hi, I was just wondering is there a GPS track somewhere which actually marks the tropic of cancer. While downloading maps for oziexplorer, I have the option of overlaying a gpx track. With tropic of cancer track, my map would have a nice red line crossing it marking the tropic of cancer. regards Tanveer ___ you should be able to construct this with a text editor as a gpx file is written in xml ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Locata augmenting GPS in GPS hostile areas
On 08/11/10 20:49, Peter Ross wrote: Their idea is that a museum (say) would buy these locata things and place them throughout their building then people could wander around with their smart phone and get information relevant to where they are, or alternatively firefighters could place the beacons around a burning building and then be able to record where every firefighter is in real-time with meter level accuracy. Or put them in road tunnels like Sydney's M5, so that visitors like me using OSM get told about the correct exit inside the tunnel instead of being told we've missed the turn when we eventually exit. John As far as my reading got, this could work with a smart phone, as the additional signals were broadcast on 2.4GHz, but not on a consumer GPS. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] [Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] Re: Marree, South Australia]
Original Message Subject: [OpenStreetMap] Re: Marree, South Australia From:staehler m-141249-8c1...@messages.openstreetmap.org Date:Wed, October 27, 2010 17:37 To: ed...@billiau.net -- Hi drlizau, staehler has sent you a message through OpenStreetMap with the subject Re: Marree, South Australia: == Hi, you obviously found a patch which hasn't removed last time. I copied some names and streets from google, sorry for this. I officially apologized for my mistake, see attached mail. I'm going to remove my edits in marree and please accept my apologize. Best regards, Michael - Hi Neal, I'll get support from Frederik (Germany). He is going to revert my changes. After that OSM is clean from my edits. I'll keep my enthusiasm for OSM :-) Regards, Michael On Wed Apr 14 02:13:14 UTC 2010 NRS wrote: Hi, Yes OSM is infectious. I don't know much about reverting changesets but others who do seem to have taken up the query. I will leave it to them. Please keep your enthusiasm for OSM. Cheers Neal On Tue Apr 13 20:18:08 UTC 2010 staehler wrote: Hi Neal, first of all please accept my appologise for my obvious mistakes I made. I try to prepare my australia holiday and want to compile my own garmin maps. Therefore I added some additional POIs and played with JOSM. Accidentially the fuel POIs have been uploaded. I already removed them from OSM. But to be honest, after drawing overland roads from landsat I also copied roads from google to complete some places of our planned route. I didn't do this on different layers in JOSM and uploaded both to OSM, the copied roads from google and the copied overland roads from landsat. I couldn't stop my enthusiasm to the openstreetmap project and walked the illegal way - I'm so sorry! How can I remove my changesets? I'ld appreciate your assistance in this, if possible: #4341783 #4341031 #4339058 #4338519 #4332119 #4330945 #4330174 Again, please appologise all inconvinience I have caused :-( Nevertheless I'm looking forward visiting australia with our rent 4WD next year :-) Best regards, Michael On 2010-10-26 20:24:55 UTC drlizau wrote: Staehler, from where did you get the street names in Marree? There isn't a single street sign in the town. == You can also read the message at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/141249 and you can reply at http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/141249 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] outback SA street names
As far as street names are concerned, we could just pick up the names for the streets currently unnamed by survey from the Atlas of SA, and attribute appropriately. I've got 3 names by research - checking the addresses of the pub, school, police station. After that I was going to send offspring to Dept Lands in Adelaide to read the official maps and get some names definitely off copyright I didn't know about the Atlas of SA If someone gets updated names from survey, they can update. Until then the temptation to just add them from a commercial map is gone. It would only take a couple of minutes for Maree/Coober Pedy, and the problem as far as street names go would vanish. Ian. That then removes the tempation On 27 October 2010 12:42, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: referenced is for Coober Pedy. As far as I can tell the guy was on holiday in Aus mapped Coober Pedy then traveled on through Marree adding the pub as he went. The Coober Pedy ones look suspect as well. If you compare the Golf Cource (their spelling) with the mentioned commercial maps then they are similar. If you look at the satellite images from the same source then you see that it bears no resemblence to what is actually there. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NSW bridge numbers]
Liz wrote, Yesterday we found lots of blue numbered markers on posts near bridges, all 4 digit, and a larger number of posts white with blue top which marked culverts, with a larger number of digits. Were all these on major highways?. Burley Griffin Way; Hume Highway; Newell Highway Can't comment on Illawarra Highway, it was dark My current theory is that no side-street bridges will have their numbers dislayed yet since not many serious car crashes will occur there. It does surprise me that they are placed on the entry point rather than the exit since if a car crashes into the bridge it will likely take out this stake, thus defeating its purpose. One at each entry point on a two way bridge One of the newer bridges in the ACT (number 3196 - railway street beard) has a shiny new number plate in exact accordance with the RTA docos, so maybe all bridges will end up with these. I wonder if they'll attract less (or more) vandalism that the current ACT white plaques? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] NSW bridge numbers
Yesterday we found lots of blue numbered markers on posts near bridges, all 4 digit, and a larger number of posts white with blue top which marked culverts, with a larger number of digits. Then on the Hume orange posts with black numbers placed at one km intervals - photographed a few of each and can post examples later, when not using the eeep ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ACT Bridge problem.
Recently I've been photographing Canberra Bridge numbers and registering them in OSM in the hope that one day ACT emergency services will find them to be of use. I've currently done about 200 (only 600 to go). When you said ACT bridge problem I thought that you meant the one that fell down under construction. :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Would The ODbL and BY-SA Clash In A Database Extracted From a BY-SA Produced Work?
2) The worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other gives them that. I got far enough through the Australian Copyright Act at the weekend to discover that this won't extend to Australia. Assignment of Australian copyright cannot be done over the internet. There are new High Court rulings regarding digital signatures which will have to be read to confirm this, but click-through is unlikely to meet the standard required. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft
Am 07.09.2010 18:01, schrieb Mâ¡rtin Koppenhoefer: craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office. I don't think so, but I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons. I see a fashion_designer as somebody who is creating custom-made clothes. Because he's creating something, it's a craft. This discussion is because 'craft' is not the best English word. I think the old word was a 'manufactory' from which factory came. So in English, fashion design / creation is a craft, but it isn't a 'craft' according to the definition put up in the wiki. Shop yes, sweat-shop most likely Craft isn't a good English word for the key. If you hide all keys behind editing software it won't matter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Compatibility of new license with old
Le samedi 28 août 2010 à 11:14, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com a écrit : The problem is that we got data also from some GIS companies who wanted non commercial only. The cc protected them in some way. I will have to go back and rework all the contracts. (as this is legal-talk, I must say that IANAL, thi sis only my personal understanding) Then you are already in problem, because the actual license used by OSM, CC- BY-SA, does not forbid commercial use (it doesn't have an NC clause). So if some companies provided you data with a non-commercial clause it is already incompatible with the current license used by OSM, so I guess such data should be removed, or a better agreement has to be found with tose companies. regards -- Renaud Michel Mike didn't say that it was licensed NC I'm sure that the data was licensed under the licence current for OSM at the time. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
On 28/08/10 14:47, Joe Richards wrote: For those of us who perhaps haven't watched all of the threads too carefully, is there such a thing as a list of the issues the new ODbL was intended to address (its pros) and the problems that those who wish to stick to the CC-by-SA license perceive with the switch (cons)? Here are two lists, but they might not be complete: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Why_You_Should_Vote_Yes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Why_You_Should_Vote_No The ODbL proposal document and supporting pages sums up the pro case quite well: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/File:License_Proposal.pdf http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License TimSC The presence of those first 2 pages, named as they are, is an anachronism. The vote has been dropped, so don't expect to be asked to vote. The last page title sums up the current approach of OSMF to the licence - We are changing the licence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Culvert and average contributor
On 27 August 2010 10:04, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: The way I understand it, a culvert is just a tiny pseudo-bridge, physically equivalent to a tunnel under an embankment. Culverts don't show up in the US National Bridge Inventory, which is a database of bridges on public roads. They normally carry water under roads, but may also carry a private farm access road under a highway that splits a farmer's land. There was discussion about this sort of thing on the Australian list some time back, although from memory it was more about what constitutes a bridge, I can't fully remember the outcome, but imho anything able to allow something as big as farm machinery or a person to go under a road would be a tunnel not a culvert. to complicate matters, a culvert may cut through a road in rural australia, making a small ford ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] topomaps (was Re: Culvert and average contributor)
On Friday 27 August 2010 05:34:00 John F. Eldredge wrote: That is, indeed, a highly detailed map, but since it doesn't show elevation contours (or at least not any visible at maximum zoom from my phone's browser), it would not be classified as a topographical map. By definition, a topographical map shows the three-dimensional topography of an area. So if you view the same area in the cyclemap it would suddenly become a topographical map, because the cyclemap has contourlines. Except that you still would not see them, because that area is as flat as a pancake. It used to be a swamp, before it was made into farmland. In the place I live - the edge of the largest flattest plain on earth - the SRTM contours show false elevations which on the ground are large sheds or groupings of trees. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Culvert and average contributor
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: is that okay if I modify the wiki page and suggest to use tunnel=culvert (and ford=culvert / bridge=culvert) instead of the ambivalent culvert=yes ? I'd like to know what ford=culvert means first. ___ Sorry, I should have photographed one I passed this morning, complete with water. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Culvert and average contributor
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:55 AM, ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: is that okay if I modify the wiki page and suggest to use tunnel=culvert (and ford=culvert / bridge=culvert) instead of the ambivalent culvert=yes ? I'd like to know what ford=culvert means first. Sorry, I should have photographed one I passed this morning, complete with water. Perhaps you can describe it? The only thing I can think of is a normal culvert where water also flows over the top if it's high enough. In a town which does not have underground storm water management, the gutters at the side of the roads have to cross one of the roads at an intersection so you have a half-elliptical shaped culvert which traffic crosses, making a little ford. The wikipedia definition of culvert is simply A culvert is a device used to channel water. and these fit into that definition. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Culvert and average contributor
Sorry, I should have photographed one I passed this morning, complete with water. I am sure there will be other opportunities to take that photo. Emilie Laffray rain has been pretty rare in the last 10 years, so only twice since then have I seen the water in the little culverts ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Culvert and average contributor
ford=culvert is even more insane. There is either a ford or a culvert. It's physically impossible to be both at the same time. I said like a ford in the first place. To me the ford crosses a natural waterway, and the culvert is not a natural waterway. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Culvert and average contributor
On 27/08/2010 14:17, ed...@billiau.net wrote: In a town which does not have underground storm water management, the gutters at the side of the roads have to cross one of the roads at an intersection so you have a half-elliptical shaped culvert which traffic crosses, making a little ford. The wikipedia definition of culvert is simply A culvert is a device used to channel water. and these fit into that definition. Nice selective quoting. I would expect the first sentence to be the summary. NE2 has since altered it. Your assumption is that every culvert is covered and my assumptions do not extend that far. If you favourite search engine open-top culvert you will find the open variety. Will you now need another tag? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Wineries
How do you tag a winery? I tried tourism=winery but that doesn't render. I guess shop=alcohol would render, but that's not really the correct tag. - Ben I have put them in as tourism=attraction, back in the days when i found a tag and misused it or altered it to fit reality. They are a special sort of of tourism attraction. Not all have cellar door sales, so we should sort out a better type of tagging system to cover vineyard / winery / cellar door sales / restaurant / winery tours whatever else is available at these places. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another day, another bridge...
I wonder what the odds of this ending up on google in the next 6 months will be. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.27381lon=153.0753zoom=15layers=B000FTF ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another day, another bridge...
I wonder what the odds of this ending up on google in the next 6 months will be. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.27381lon=153.0753zoom=15layers=B000FTF sorry about the blank mail that bridge seems to have a bike track on the eastern side which descends into the water ?? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] public transport routing and OSM-ODbL
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I have said consistently that the Australian section of the map stands to lose an enormous amount of data in a change to ODbL. This is a strawman argument. If - and I really mean if - If we had to remove the Australian coastline, then we can get another version with very little effort. It's really not the big issue that it might seem. We managed for the rest of the planet, and there's nothing special about the Australian coastline. The accuracy of the coastline from ABS data compared to the previous PGS coastline is the reason that mappers have remade the coastline from the newer data. You are suggesting that we revert to the old coastline. Perhaps we prefer the vastly more accurate one we obtained from the Australian government. It is certainly not a straw argument. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [talk-au] Progress of Victorian efforts
Finally got around to updating the data showing progress of road mapping across Victoria as compared to the 'definitive' source from the Victorian Government. The table can be found at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Victoria,_Australia/Road_progress. There is no lack of work to be done :) Some interesting facts; Vicmap has almost 295,000km of roads mapped Just under 86,000km of roads have been mapped in OSM - approximately 30% of Vicmap roads The postcode with the largest variation to Vicmap is 3496 (Horsham) with almost 5,500km 'missing' Of the mapped roads, 23,300km does not have a name Postcode 3730 (Yarrawonga) has the largest length of unnamed roads of almost 420km. These numbers highlight the influence of high resolution nearmap imagery through the central part of Victoria as shown at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#New_South_Wales.2FVictoria Craig Thanks for the update Craig. Last visit to Horsham was before I joined OSM so I have no data to contribute there. Yarrawonga I may visit to name streets but Deniliquin is next on my list. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] House Numbers was [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
Absolutely, and we will... in fact, I'm working on it right now. I just thought it was worth making the point that housenumbers are (in my humble opinion) key to enabling many wider applications of map data. Cheers b i've been putting in some odd numbers if i am tagging or shop or office or other building that doesn't render then putting its number in renders something on the map ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] How to tag a church without its own building
On 5 July 2010 17:39, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: The only reason you gave against creating multiple nodes was you didn't like it. Seems fine to me. Especially since the church and school in this case are not really co-located: the centre of the There is no church, they're using a school hall for church based activities... Interesting as the church as a building is a corruption of the original meaning in which the church is the group of people who worship together and the building was a chapel or a meeting hall or some other thing ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)
This kit may also help, depending on your screen size: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12561 when fitted, provides a 7-inch touchscreen via USB, which I'm assuming would be more convenient that using the touchpad. -- Voon-Li Chung chun...@gmail.com.au I've seen hardware hacks including fitting the gps inside the 701 case i find the worst problem is not the touchpad, because once you have set it up to navigate it can give you the directions etc on screen or by noise, but the screen blanking with the power save function i could fix that, of course another thing is that i haven't managed to get enough decibels out of festival speech engine to be heard in a normal room easily, let alone against a car motor son thought that steven hawking giving navigation instructions was cool ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] rendering fords
On 8 May 2010 13:03, ed...@billiau.net wrote: Floodways are often in places were you can't even see the creek bed. http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?album_id=23_order=date_off=4151 (Just about the last picture before we broke down Australia Day) Ok, so flood plain or flood prone areas... actually the next two pictures have the depth markers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Months-old vandalism needs to be taken care of
There are several suggestions for the front page here. Some of them have already been implemented. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page Since you are advocating a substantial redesign perhaps you could draft something? I'm certain that the current designers weren't aiming for game-like, messy or distracting use of colo(u)r. SteveC suggested a draft design change for www.openstreetmap.com a short while ago. Several folks collaborated on a wiki front page a few years back, but that was only adopted at http://openstreetmap.ca/ What do you have in mind? I don't have any design skills (except perhaps, with textiles). It would not be helpful for OSM if I redesigned the front page. While I can point out wiki front pages that work or don't work that is probably the limit of my ability. Please could those who do understand design step forward? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Abnormal votings on military objects in RU wiki part; PocketGIS madness
2010/4/13 andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com For the record I'm much more likely to trust Komzpa who's a long time contributor to the community than someone who thinks citizenship has any meaning at all in an argument. Komzpa is out of reach of Russian state authorities. Russian citizens are not. That is the only thing I wanted to tell specifing that he is from Belorussia. K. Can you also understand that the OSM database is also out of reach of the Russian authorities, and being in UK, cannot even be pushed by inter-governmental action? We are getting some good ideas overall here 1. use a different tag which is not industrial. You don't need a wiki vote, you can just decide that in Russia these places are landuse=special (perhaps use a suitable russian word). It is important that this tag does not render. Then no attention is drawn to it. 2. render own maps without rendering the military tag. 3. don't fight over this - we can come up with ideas which will cope with the situation and keep the main database intact. 4. on the russian wiki-vote I would suggest that the sponsor withdraw the vote on the basis that the whole community worldwide is working on ideas to come to a solution which will not endanger mapping in Russia, or China, or North Korea. Liz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Lonely Planet
On 12 April 2010 08:03, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry to be a party pooper, but do you think Lonely Planet would be okay with this kind of use of their publication? I doubt she'd be copying it verbatim, more likely she's using it like a street directory for route planning and will use a GPS device for the location and can survey for names on signs at the same time. i'm using it for ideas and i'm yet to find gps co-ords on any page and for food and accommodation they have quite restricted lists - mine are much bigger but not all tested :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] routable garmin maps
made it safely into adelaide with the routable garmin maps from http://www.osmaustralia.org/garminroute.php. Must check one point where the advice was to cross over the median strip and use the wrong side of the road. Small hiccup in an inability to set a route over the Vic/SA border, but can navigate over the NSW/Vic border and within all three States. I've emailed Matt separately about that problem - no idea why it happened. I find that the use of NHA17; NHA20; NHA1 and NHA8 as route designations is quite silly. No road sign says NH anything. I've done some photos to remind people but haven't emptied the camera yet. The wiki doth say thou shalt use just A in a State with alphanumeric road designations we have a good schema now where the NH bit goes in a relation but if people will put this in tags then it will have to be parsed out of routable maps - this sort of thing where it says N on Nha17 is hopeless midcity directions when I thought I was on Portrush Road. Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] routable garmin maps
Hi. On 28 March 2010 17:04, ed...@billiau.net wrote: I find that the use of NHA17; NHA20; NHA1 and NHA8 as route designations is quite silly. No road sign says NH anything. I'm inclined to agree here. I understand why it was decided that way originally, but it is slightly confusing that the GPS uses a different designation for the road to what the road signs use. - Ben. I'm not sure how confusing - I knew the answer and still found my way. I'll road test it on an OSM-naive subject next and see what the reply is. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] I ordered my first personal camera so I can do 'photomapping' or 'geotagging'
My advice: set the camera clock in UTC (regardless of where you live; it's the One True Timezone :-) Before going out geotagging, set the clock, because if it's right you can either skip or have an easier time with the time sync issue. take a picture of the GPS receiver's time before and after your session (of course your GPS receiver should be set to display in UTC as well, but this is only for your benefit) figure out how to deal with timezones with your geotagging setup I would use exiftool calling it as TZ=UTC exiftool install exiftool and read the man page; it is set up to geotag the images from a gpx file. Or you can use the builtin support in josm. I use geocorrelate-gui which is excellent. I leave my camera on winter time and make a 10 hour adjustment in the GUI, then a few seconds change after that as needed, in a separate box in the GUI. Of course this person may not be using Linux and need some other program. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] admin boundaries on garmin
I used my garmin oregon 550 in the car on the way to Canberra yesterday. Messed up a bit because i hadn't put a routable map on it, so had Navit on the netbook on the passengers seat to assist me. However I noted that the OSM map on the Garmin clearly shows the admin boundaries with names - I was seeing the postcode or suburb boundaries (not sure which). Not helpful overall on a small screen. Anyone else got any comments (do we change our admin boundaries or deal with mkgmap) Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Two different ways with the same nodes?
Hi, Stefan Pflumm wrote: this ways are all highways. It surely is unusual for two highways sharing the same nodes, and I cannot think of an example where this would make sense. But that doesn't mean there is none; can you give an example? Bye Frederik Double-decker bridge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Two different ways with the same nodes?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:57 PM, ed...@billiau.net wrote: Hi, Stefan Pflumm wrote: this ways are all highways. It surely is unusual for two highways sharing the same nodes, and I cannot think of an example where this would make sense. But that doesn't mean there is none; can you give an example? Bye Frederik Double-decker bridge The ways should not share nodes, because the ways don't intersect. That is exactly why the duplicated nodes should not be merged. They 'appear' to share the same node, because we are not differentiating according to height in the database. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Two different ways with the same nodes?
Hello, Is it allowed (or intended) that two different ways share the same edges? For example: there are nodes a, b, c and two ways A, B with: A = (a, b, c) B = (c, b, a) While loading some osm data in a database i realized that there are some ways with this problem, so is this a correct feauture or a mapping error? absolutely correct For example where an admin boundary follows the coast one way for the coast one way for the admin boundary if we have joined ways we are getting renderer problems so the au mob have decided to maintain duplicate ways in those circumstances. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] repurcussions of IceTV decision
On 11 February 2010 05:33, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Haven't got far through the judgement so far but this sounds quite clear. 7. The Copyright Act does not protect facts, ideas or information contained in a work, to ensure a balance is struck between the interests of authors and those in society: IceTV [2009] HCA 14; 254 ALR 386 at [28] and the cases cited therein. The Copyright Act does not provide protection for skill and labour alone: IceTV [2009] HCA 14; 254 ALR 386 at [49], [52], [54] and [131]. and 8. The Copyright Act protects the particular form of expression of the information: (but not if it is computer generated, it must have an author) The majority of all OSM data has identifiable authors. Also there is debate over the creativity, the vector information may not be protected but meta information may be deemed a creative work, and without a court case it's merely speculation. In any case Australia is just late to the game, these sorts of decicions have already been made in other jurisdictions and this is exactly the reason why some want ODBL. The judge suggested that database protection laws should be considered by Parliament. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Suburb boundaries
I haven't used Merkaartor but I presume it presents relations in a way similar to JOSM which is what I've been using. You can make it show big blue dotted lines on the map in a rectangle around the extreme points in the relation, or turn it off and not be alarmed by big blue dotted lines going everywhere.. If the relation has been renamed you could find it pictorially. I'll have a look tonight at home. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] repurcussions of IceTV decision
On 11 February 2010 14:19, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Doesnt all content have an identifiable author, or at least copyright holder? Unless its computer generated that is. The copyright holder isn't always the author, although in the case of Channel 9/Telstra they should have auditing systems in place to be able to identify the authors, but again they wouldn't be the copyright holder. Although if they couldn't identify the employees who updated what I guess they don't. just on this point Telstra could not identify the authors Most was computer generated Alterations were done by contractors not employees and Her Honour decided that there was neither author nor authors as there was no collaboration between them entries had to conform to rigid formulae (the Rules) Verification was done to confirm that the Rules were intact, and rigid Rules are the antithesis of intellectual input and creativity. No-one knew who had written the Rules either. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Canberra - last white spot on the map
Roy Wallace wrote: I use name=Woolworths for Woolworths petrol stations. Have never used the operator=* tag - should I? I haven't seen any difference to the rendering with or without the operator tag. What I do find useful is the inclusion of a place name when looking at the list of outlets on a GPS. This makes it so much simpler to ignore those away from my intended direction of travel. So I use names like Woolworths Renmark. John H Can we document on the wiki which is Operator and which is Name (for Australia) because I never found it to make sense I suspect Operator is the franchise name - am I right? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] OSM in Haiti
2010/1/14 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#2010_Earthquake_Response http://blog.ushahidi.com/index.php/2010/01/13/haiti-earthquake/ I'm not trying to detract from how badly off people are in Haiti... but nothing like this occurred when Australia had those really bad fires recently. Probably 2 reasons 1. mapping does exist in the first place which is stored off-site (ie internationally) 2. it is assumed that us noisy b*s can do this anyway. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] New Highways view in OSM Inspector
I'm aware of the concept that the earth is not flat. But... This is a two dimensional map. IFAIK there is no 3d data. The PoV of viewing the OSM data via the likes of Mapnik is always through the surface of the earth to the centre of the earth. Therefore a line such as this Oz highway is, when viewed in a map, going to be straight. ah, not exactly depending on your projection and its distortions (all projections have distortions) a straight line on earth can be represented as a curved line on a map. Eg Air navigation east coast north america to europe. This is long enough that shown on a Mercator projection the straight line which the pilot flies is shown as a curve - because in 3D it is a curve. It is known as a Great circle. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GreatCircle.html A great circle becomes a straight line in a gnomonic projection ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Sturt Highway Virtual Mapping Party 09/10
Nick Hocking wrote: I notice someone's filled in lots of Waikerie too. John H Missed quite a few streets in Waikerie as we managed to drive inefficiently in a circle, but when i downloaded all the gpx files from the server there was good additional information there. We did some more streets in Lameroo and a few more in Manangatang but haven't uploaded that work yet ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: When I looked up WAAS on wikipedia a while ago, it appeared that we do have an equivalent system in Australia (although the term WAAS is american), but I'm not sure how to tell whether it's functioning in a given area. I switched the WAAS capability on the GPS on, but again, I don't know if it's actually doing anything. There is no GPS augmentation system in Australia, the closest one is in Japan. we will have to disagree on this one. skim to the fifth page of this pdf to find the first listed AU stations http://www.beaconworld.org.uk/files/worldDGPSfreqorder.pdf These of course are the free (unencrypted ones). Encrypted broadcasts are used by surveying firms, and won't be listed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier to entry: to trace from imagery on Ubuntu
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 04:28, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Ãvar Arnfjörð Bjarmason writes:  No it's wrong, imagery now works with JOSM out of the box if you fetch  the wmsplugin. it's not working for me.  I get red Exception occurred boxes. What errors do you get in the console when this happens? Crunchbang Linux an Ubuntu derivative. Kernel 26.28 Appears to be Jaunty, This is my laptop, so I know I djdn't install webkit in it, whereas I have on the desktop, Grabbing HTML http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wmsplugin/YahooDirect.html?bbox=138.6623938,-34.8821977,138.6979483,-34.8530262srs=EPSG:4326width=499height=500 java.io.IOException: Could not start browser. Please check that the executable path is correct. Cannot run program webkit-image: java.io.IOException: error=2, No such file or directory at wmsplugin.HTMLGrabber.grab(HTMLGrabber.java:44) at wmsplugin.WMSGrabber.fetch(WMSGrabber.java:68) at wmsplugin.Grabber.attempt(Grabber.java:82) at wmsplugin.WMSGrabber.run(WMSGrabber.java:51) at java.util.concurrent.Executors$RunnableAdapter.call(Executors.java:471) at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask$Sync.innerRun(FutureTask.java:334) at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask.run(FutureTask.java:166) at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:1110) at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:603) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:636) java.lang.Exception: Could not start browser. Please check that the executable path is correct. Cannot run program webkit-image: java.io.IOException: error=2, No such file or directory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google blog post: The meaning of open
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 7:42 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/23 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: Interestingly, there is NO mention of mapping data. Amazing. How can they continue to omit this from the discussion? Actually thereg did a good run down on this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/23/google_on_open/ It's not just data they aren't open about... Interesting article. From it: [H]is description of what should be open avoids all those areas where Google is preternaturally closed. In some cases, he rationalizes the omissions. In others, he seems completely oblivious to what's been left out. ... Like any other money-driven outfit, Google is open when open suits its needs. And it's closed when closed suits. Still no mention of mapping data, though. Does being closed in that sense really suit Google's needs? I'm not so sure. Then I assume that they see a means of making money out of the mapping. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] SES Sheds
How are people tagging these, they aren't like other emergency services and you can't contact them by dialing 000 for that matter. Nothing came up in searching for SES/State Emergency Services... Well apart from some spanish word that's completely irrelevent. 13 25 00 i've put some in as something like emergency_service emergency_service=ses ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] SES Sheds
2009/12/26 cam_...@fastmail.fm: On Fri, 2009-12-25 at 21:08 +1000, John Smith wrote: How are people tagging these, they aren't like other emergency services and you can't contact them by dialing 000 for that matter. Nothing came up in searching for SES/State Emergency Services... Well apart from some spanish word that's completely irrelevent. I surveyed one such occurrence last week:- http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/46504723 alt_name = SES building = yes name = State Emergency Service note = Camden Local Control But I guess an extra tag could be made, for example: amenity = ses I like Liz's idea of emergency_services=* tagging, because there is numerous things in that category of services, but it's kind of a bit late in terms of police/fire although we could try for a similar push like highway=footway - highway=path etc... At the time I must have got emergency_service from somewhere where else is it used? I'm happy to change when we decide ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] SES Sheds
2009/12/26 ed...@billiau.net: At the time I must have got emergency_service from somewhere where else is it used? I'm happy to change when we decide I'm just pointing out it goes against other emergency services, although they should probably be grouped together properly instead of lumped in as amenities http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Emergency_service where the discussion page notes that we can't just change existing amenity tags. emergency_service=technical has no usage in Australia and checking the unreferenced wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_service technical doesn't fit SES duties nothing on that page fits normal storm/tempest/flood work which is always SES, and it dumps rescue in with fire, which is a major unresolved discussion in Australia, where rescue can be police, fire, ambulance, ses, vra (maybe more) for various historical and political reasons. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] SES Sheds
2009/12/26 ed...@billiau.net: Ambulance - diff types Most are state run, WA has outsourced to St Johns I think, and then there is volunteer ones too I think... Fire - diff types incl CFA and RFS There is also metro, which are full time paid employees rather than mostly/all volunteer. VRA SES Australian Volunteer Coast Guard Association, Royal Volunteer Coastal Patrol and VRA Marine and a few more along just the NSW Coast so we need a nice new wiki page to list all forms of Australian Emergency Services I don't think this should be limited to just Australian emergency services, in fact it might even be very beneficial for these to be listed out on a country basis. Also you have NRMA/RACQ/RACV etc which is a quasi emergency service, and these can be contacted from phones along the sides of motorways etc, when people break down. If we list more than ourselves then we do appear to be more co-operative, and could save other people reinventing the wheel, a very popular OSM activity ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Routable maps
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head meta content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 Thanks for this info. I downloaded the routable maps last night and tried them out today at work (I'm a delivery driver - gives me lots of opportunity to try out the Etrex).br br Mostly, the routable maps worked well - gave good point-to-point instructions. I did find one roundabout that asked to go round the wrong way - I will check that out in OSM later.br br I loaded the maps into the Etrex using Garmin's Mapsource, so the problems with IMG2GPS can be deferred for the moment. Using MapSource also allowed me to load ContoursAustralia at the same time as the OSM maps, so I still have my contour lines. Thank you to other users who suggested alternate maps and download methods - I will check them out during the holiday break. But it is Christmas Eve, and I need to pack the car, and put in some waypoints for the unmapped wild caves (Timor Caves, NSW) that we plan to explore during the break.br br Richard C.br That sounds like a lot more fun than driving the Sturt Highway for Xmas :-) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Routable maps
I also just tried out routing on my new Garmin Oregon 550...awesome. I was on cycling Churchill Park in Melbourne's east and camping the night. The gps, using only osm data, found me some really interesting tracks that I wouldn't have thought of on my own. Someone's done a good job in that area. It's particularly cool that you can see some interesting singletrack, take it, and the gps figures out a way to incorporate that decision and still get you to your destination. Then, on the way home, I used it again. I had to get my car towed to a mechanic, then ride home. I would have gone a pretty boring way by default, but the gps pointed out that I was near the elster canal bike path, and took me that way. It's still not perfect Garmin doesn't value bike paths as highly as I do but it's really helpful. I was pretty skeptical about the value of routing on roads, but now I'm convinced that it can you help you find more interesting ways around. Steve I gave myself one for Christmas and have not got it as far as the bike yet although I have bought it all the necessary accessories. After a lot of fiddling I have succeeded in getting it to send to gpsd so if anyone wants to know pm me. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Portrush Road, Adelaide
Just a note. Was using Navit for navigation into Adelaide (although we do know the way) and noticed the right turn at the bottom of the big hill into Portrush Road was followed by a left turn in 20 metres, which isn't the way you see it as a driver. I think that this is the result of Portrush Road being mapped as a single way which is two ways rather than two parallel ways, which would be more accurate. The median strip does not permit crossing traffic at every intersection, including the most southerly one which was misinterpreted by Navit. Is there sufficient detail on Nearmap to work out where the median strip is continuous across an intersection or does it need careful survey work? Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Portrush Road, Adelaide
I've used NearMap for this sort of thing on roads that I am familiar(ish) with, it gives you a pretty good idea of when it's a painted line and when it's a hard strip. One bit of fun to look out for is where the road is divided by pegs (bits of Princes Highway in Sydney), but if you zoom in and know what you are looking for you can even see these some of the time. cheers On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:44 PM, ed...@billiau.net wrote: Just a note. Was using Navit for navigation into Adelaide (although we do know the way) and noticed the right turn at the bottom of the big hill into Portrush Road was followed by a left turn in 20 metres, which isn't the way you see it as a driver. I think that this is the result of Portrush Road being mapped as a single way which is two ways rather than two parallel ways, which would be more accurate. The median strip does not permit crossing traffic at every intersection, including the most southerly one which was misinterpreted by Navit. Is there sufficient detail on Nearmap to work out where the median strip is continuous across an intersection or does it need careful survey work? Liz I've had another look at the data and Portrush Road is split, with some feeder lanes drawn in. Not sure which of these confuses the router now (very difficult to debug and drive the car down that hill) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Portrush Road, Adelaide
Or are you actually turning into Portrush Rd? In which case the Nuvi has me doing a simple right-hand turn. John Yes, turning into Portrush Road, which was Turn right, turn left in 20 metres when to the driver it is the same as above - a right turn only. If it is a Navit problem I'll follow up on #navit, and if it is OSM data we need to analyse the data just like the roundabout routing problem we discussed last week. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sturt Virtual Mapping Party
Liz wrote: This am we'll head out along the Mallee, put some more streets in Manangatang and return next week via the Sturt and put some streets in Waikerie. If you're taking your bike, the bike path between Renmark and Paringa is nice and is missing from OSM. I'm still hoping to be travelling through about mid-January to see the TDU if you don't get a chance. John No bikes this trip - but we did note the path when last in Renmark Now will it be a cycleway with walkers allowed? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Intro video to OSM in Australia
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.comwrote: Has anyone on this list had any success approaching groups to encourage them to join? Their club magazine, Checkpoint, is also looking for contributions on any topic related to endurance cycling (perhaps an OSM introduction would be a goodtopic ?): Checkpoint Contributing info: http://j.mp/6dy77x Possible, with a bit of creativity to make sure you're providing relevant information as well as requesting help. Probably you'd make the article about how to use a GPS for long distance rides, then point out that they could contribute any traces they collect to OSM, who will incorporate it into data for future maps. Steve I see that 1st Feb is the closure date for editorial material. We should be able to something decent in that time, including a draft to the editor to 'book' a decent space Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing
John Smith wrote: Adding in postcodes and the BP data I've noticed a LOT of square roundabouts... The problem arises mainly with economically-drawn flared approaches to roundabouts, as that term is used in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout John So the wiki needs a note that flares (can) mess up routing ?? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Offline Dump of the Wiki
s. I can't for the life of me think what sort of research would require a copy of the wiki though. Tom someone researching social networking ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Show Ground Tag
G'Day All I was just marking the show grounds here in Rockhampton but I'm not quite sure what tag to use. I've had a look at the tags on the OSM Wiki under landuse, Amenity and Leisure and nothing seems to be the right tag. I even had a look under the Australian tagging guidelines. I looked up to see what tag used for the exhibition grounds in Brisbane. It's been tagged landuse=commercial. Hmmmye but I still don't think it's the right tag. Is the above tag the right one? If not what is the right tag? Sean I think we have used landuse=recreation_ground or summat similar for a rural showground big city ones aren't recreation grounds in the same way as they aren't used for cricket on sundays ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] replacement bicylce mounted gps
i think i have left my garmin etrex cx in the hotel in melbourne. in which case, its gone. what are people's favourites for a bicycle mounted gps with display which shows OSM maps? other criteria good accuracy value for $ ability to use as gps source for navit when in motor vehicle Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] replacement bicylce mounted gps
ed...@billiau.net ed...@billiau.net wrote: ability to use as gps source for navit when in motor vehicle The good news is that Navit can use any NMEA source, which just about any serial or USB connectable device will provide. -- I haven't yet persuaded navit to listen to a GPS on /dev/rfcomm0 or linking the /dev/rfcomm0 to a stty to talk to navit :( ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin eTrex Vista Hcx
Hi! Shalabh schrieb: Would just like to figure out if any of you have had the same issue with this model or any other Garmin GPS. I have a similar Issue with the Garmin Vista HCx. Occasionally I observe, that the GPS position is way off the known road/path I am on. The satellite accuracy is high +-5m. When I switch the device off and on again, it positions me right where I am supposed to be. So it seems to accumulate some sort of error in its internal calculations and needs the occational reset when it is going wrong with great confidence bye Nop All of the matters described are possible at all times with a GPS system of position finding. However the notes that some accumulate errors are significant, and again may refer to particular firmware so that it will be difficult to determine the actual cause. 150m horizontal error, for example, across a time gap of a few hours, may well relate to changes in satellite position and reflection of signal occurring one one but not both times. Vertical errors are greater at all times. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] It's now becoming clear why google so quickly switched from navteq...
android powered phones only? jim On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGXK4jKN_jYfeature=player_embedded as i waited and waited for this to download on my 3G modem in Melbourne i thought wot if the data downloads so slowly you run out of instructions? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting
Lester Caine wrote: We still have not come to any consensus on the general points of mapping and who is in charge so a dictate from above TELLING us to move to a new list seems somewhat out of place? I guess it's a matter of perception. You see a dictate from above TELLING you to do something. I see a fellow osm'er trying to help the community that has been a wee bit fraught of late. It actually is another facet of the problem of *governance*. I haven't checked whether the same people who want to make alterations to the talk list are the same set / an intersecting set / not the same set as those who advocate totally freeform tagging. Checking that won't change - the basic problem is governance. I'm sure that in three months a lot of tagging discussions will have migrated from this list to the newer list. If we then make a governance list, there will be nothing left for this list to talk about at all ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] admin boundaries
just had a look at australia and we have some rogue admin boundaries in NT on Barkly Tablelands and in North SA http://osm.org/go/s...@go ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide
Frederik said All this is possible *within* the existing OSM framework and without any strong leader telling us where to go. I really do encourage you and all those calling for leadership to get together, form your own advisory board or tagging committee or whatever, create the structures you think are required, and then offer them for voluntary use by the community. This is likely to result in several insular communities. In particular I am considering that au mappers would write a tight set of guidelines for mapping and, as an example, we wouldn't have to worry about residential vs unclassified in rural areas for any other country - we would define our own strategy and stick to it. If Au does that, and the Argentinians make their own set of preferences, and other groups do the same, we will have a project with multiple forks. I don't really want to split the project, but if it becomes the only way to peace it will happen by itself. Liz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Bird watching spots
This weekend I think I'll be checking out some local bird watching spots http://rankinssprings.googlepages.com/home so does anyone have any ideas on tagging bird watching spots and hides? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Bot removing attribution tags
2009/9/28 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: And this seems to be the case here? The problem is the ways are the best place to tag the ABS information, and the ABS data just happens to follow rivers, islands, railways and roads and so on which is very useful where people can't survey and there is no hi-res imagery, so the relation isn't the best place to dump ABS tags when these ways are used for multiple purposes. Example Lachlan River Way is a rough trace from landsat imagery. Yahoo is worse for the detail. In some places with many curves and meanderings I have been very rough with the trace. all of that work is marked source=landsat ABS data is imported. Where this corresponds to the river I have started using the ABS data to make the river more accurate. Neither of these are a field survey of any description, and the way still needs the ABS source attributed, so that in future when someone does follow the river with a GPS the river can be updated - it won't be marked source=survey so we will know it needs a field check. If the ABS tag is gone - how do I know to use this for an improvement on landsat ??? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Breach of Copyright?
Coincidentally I have just had a meeting with someone from one of the local councils who is interested in using OSM data for their online services. I brought up this issue and he explicitly said that the coordinates of the footpaths on the definitive map were derived from Ordnance Survey data. So this seems to be a definitive statement that you can't copy courses of paths from definitive maps. Nick That applies to that Council. Someone else has already noted their council had paid surveyors to do the footpath survey so their data would not be so derived. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Bot removing attribution tags
John Smith wrote: 2009/9/28 Ruben Wisniewski ru...@all-in-si.de: Hi John, thank you for your report, but whats wrong with moving the tags to a relation, this is the common way as far as I know, only all ways together represent the border, so the relation should hold the tags. Else if there is a change, not every way has to be edited. Because these boundaries were never fully imported so when I add sections of missing boundary I need to re-add the missing tags that were removed and add them to the individual ways again. If I am reading this thread correctly, I think John's problem is that the RELATION is not totally attributed to ABS, and so only those element that were imported should be attributed while other unattributed data will be added at the relation level? ADDITIONAL ways added to the relation that are not from the original import should not be attributed to ABS and so a bot that blindly strips information without understanding the nature of that data SHOULD NOT BE RUNNING ? I can imaging a number of situations where the initial information would have a common set of tags that COULD be interpreted as applying to the relation level, but then latter additions require all of that 'tidying' to be undone manually to put the correct data back :( And this seems to be the case here? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Yes we need to know what is original ABS data and what is edited data from a mapper sorting something out. Please, instead of arguing the point, could the bot be stopped until the problem is resolved one way or another?? And then, if anyone wants to run automated edits on AU data, we're on talk-au and willing to discuss things. Liz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Navit
this might just be a silly / basic question how does one tell Navit to allow one to drive on the motorway? I double checked, its set to car, not to horse cycle or pedestrian, and it won't send me along a motorway or is this a problem with au data?? Liz who luckily knew the way because it would have been a very long journey along the backroads ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Navit
Interesting, It puts me on motorways all the time (sometimes it would be nice to have more choice). Have you checked the oneways etc. Have you got a permalink to a problematic road cheers 150km of Hume Highway and a few km in wollongong same thing motorway sends me to go down first exit any direction nothing to do with where i want to go ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Navit
I tried a few random points on the Hume and on the way down to wollongong and 'it works for me' ;-( I'm using a recentish svn version and one of John's recentish Australia.bin files cheers i've got a very recent (yesterday) bin file from John, but I'll try the upgrade from svn I'm not sure when i installed navit on the machine ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Navit
I tried a few random points on the Hume and on the way down to wollongong and 'it works for me' ;-( I'm using a recentish svn version and one of John's recentish Australia.bin files cheers i've got a very recent (yesterday) bin file from John, but I'll try the upgrade from svn I'm not sure when i installed navit on the machine Once I convinced apt-get that an svn version from pini was newer than the official package I was able to install a new navit and I can drive along the motorways now. Except for a bit of road at Robertson which is an admin boundary the routing is now pretty good. I'm going to split the road off the boundary and re-enter the road separately. Hope no one objects. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New contributor
Hello, I hope to contribute to the OSM mapping project for Australia. I'm based in Murray Bridge, SA and work in Adelaide. If you're interested in my background you can read about me at my blog ( http://domiconsultant.org ). From there is a link to my LinkedIn profile. Mike Smith -- Welcome aboard I've put in a couple of streets in Murray Bridge only, and a few ways around there, so there is plenty of scope for mapping in Murray Bridge. This is reputed to be a noisy mailing list, be warned :-) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] sidewalks
are you thinking of a paved section intended for walking, or just the space which here could be grass, rough ground, or even gardened? a paved surface intended for walking there are places in my village where you can walk on the grass next to the road - I've been marking them as 'no footpath' a previous poster (I've lost the thread as I'm using my webmail) said that these could be assumed in residential areas. While residents here would like concrete paths provided in residential areas they are not standard by any means. That's why I was checking. It is most common to have a verge in residential areas (here) which is within the road reserve but is not road contents of road reserve, where the road reserve is the public land which contains the roadway fence/boundary -- verge -- kerb/guttering/table drain -- road (surfaced or not) -- kerb -- verge -- boundary that space verge may be grass, may contain a pathway, may be rough ground, may be a garden (although obstructing pedestrian passage is not legal) and I'm not likely to be mapping any of it while I've thousands of kms of roads still to go in Western NSW Au. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Rendering Fuel tags
--- On Thu, 6/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Tags for that purpose are already described on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfuel I just noticed this url on that page: http://www.osmfuel.org map/site for searching fuel locations Still short on listing biodiesel although that is now as rare as hen's teeth in my area ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Cycleway/footway/path
--- On Fri, 7/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Gah... don't tag for the renderer. We're not tagging for the renderer, we're tagging to describe something, perhaps this is just a case of needing a width and to render accordingly, however you need something more than just highway=path to describe what is currently being described. What is it about the path that makes it better for cycling in your opinion? I don't cycle much so it isn't going to do much for me either way, but the previous poster had a point about showing paths that were more for bike riders because they were wider. The seafront area in Cairns has a mixture of cycle only paths / shared use paths / pedestrian paths through a single big park area So something that rendered those differently would be ideal. I know we should not tag for the renderer. So a cyclist path is wider, has no steps and has probably a maximum gradient. It should also have a dip in the kerb where it meets / crosses the road. A wheelchair suitable path would have even less gradient, and again have no steps, but might be narrower. I haven't read the Australian standards there, so someone else who has a better idea should chime in. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] GPS dataloggers (again)
Liz wrote: the Transystem i-Blue 887 was bought as photoMate 887 successfully connected under bluetooth protocols with Linux and used mtkbabel to obtain the data unsuccessful so far with usb connection as wrong ID by kernel 2.6.27, loading wrong module Accuracy looks good Hi Liz, There's a simple two line kernel patch to get related Qstarz MTK units to work with USB. Here's a couple of links to some instructions that may be of assistance. My Qstarz BT-1000X (MTK2) shows up as /dev/ttyACM0 after patching . It seems to need to have a valid fix before it will communicate via USB. http://www.cyrius.com/debian/gps/bt-q1000x/--- includes a link to the patch http://bt747.free.fr/content/?q=node/74 Ubuntu 8.04 instructions (non-Ubuntu kernel build though) Good luck -- Babstar I'll try it when i get home I think that this device should be using cp2101, because that is what the driver on the included disk is called. I read some google translated stuff from a korean site specific to the 887 and it did not seem to work as /dev/ttyACM0 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Well aware of that, I've been using them for osm uploads for 2-3years. However osm only uses a very limited set so lat, long and elev are all that is currently used by osm, you have to enter all other tags manually. After trawling for a bit I came across this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Surveyor Pity they didn't document what they did specifically. I've tried something like this in the car but daylight is too bright to see anything on the computer screen, and my sunglasses don't have a reading correction built in. It might work in gloomy Uk, but not Oz in midsummer. If you want to see where your track goes on an OSM map as you travel, then tangogps will show you - its great for showing your position and the existing map. You wouldn't want to make that into ways - it would contain too many points and doublebacks. Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
