Re: [Talk-us] Neighborhoods / Zillow
2013/6/17 Anthony o...@inbox.org It's not about mapping the sign, it's about mapping the neighborhood based on the sign. We don't map speed limit signs, we map the speed limits on the roads based on the signs. where do you get this from? We are indeed mapping speed limits signs (additionally to the speed limits on the roads and based on these signs). The purpose is verifiability and ease of mapping. You often don't register every single sign in the first survey, and having the sign locations really simplifies further maxspeed mapping on the road. There is even a JOSM-mappaint-style to show the right speed limit sign (maxspeed signs). We also map other signs, e.g. city limits signs: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/traffic_sign We don't map individual trees, we map forests. also here we do actually both. The tag to map a tree is natural=tree, and there are subtags to refine with details (e.g. species, denotation, ...) We don't map keep out, military area signs, we map military areas. I agree as long as you can draw the whole area in one go/ based on one survey, but if you only did your surveys bit by bit I'd recommend to start mapping military area signs in order to reconstruct the whole boundary after you have collected enough of them. cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
Why is the US local chapter not running a tile server that renders shields and concurrencies? The tagging has been stable forever. The code has been working for years. Even a hacked demo ( now offline) was running for years before that. Stop waiting for the London tile server to give a stamp of approval for a local mapping idiom. If shields and concurrencies are important to you then why aren't you using the available tools? Argh! :-) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Why is the US local chapter not running a tile server that renders shields and concurrencies? The tagging has been stable forever. The code has been working for years. Even a hacked demo ( now offline) was running for years before that. Because no one's stepped up to do it! I've asked several times for ideas and input for what should run on the server and haven't received much initiative there. Are you volunteering, Richard? :) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
Richard - we were discussing this topic during the mappy hour yesterday and came to the same conclusion! We should have a shields style. What needs to be done? I am willing to put in time but can't connect all the dots myself. I will loop in Ian and see if we can get this running. On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:41 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Why is the US local chapter not running a tile server that renders shields and concurrencies? The tagging has been stable forever. The code has been working for years. Even a hacked demo ( now offline) was running for years before that. Stop waiting for the London tile server to give a stamp of approval for a local mapping idiom. If shields and concurrencies are important to you then why aren't you using the available tools? Argh! :-) -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
Oh there you are Ian :) Well I guess I am stepping up but I will need help! On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Richard - we were discussing this topic during the mappy hour yesterday and came to the same conclusion! We should have a shields style. What needs to be done? I am willing to put in time but can't connect all the dots myself. I will loop in Ian and see if we can get this running. On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:41 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Why is the US local chapter not running a tile server that renders shields and concurrencies? The tagging has been stable forever. The code has been working for years. Even a hacked demo ( now offline) was running for years before that. Stop waiting for the London tile server to give a stamp of approval for a local mapping idiom. If shields and concurrencies are important to you then why aren't you using the available tools? Argh! :-) -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
* Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com [2013-06-18 08:07 -0500]: Because no one's stepped up to do it! Okay, I should probably put my toes in here. I can spend this weekend cleaning up my code (for http://elrond.aperiodic.net/shields/ ) and maybe try to get it running on the US server, if there's interest/approval. Note that it requires PL/python, which is an untrusted PostgreSQL language, and takes some tweaking to get all of the pathnames set up properly. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
* Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com [2013-06-17 22:19 -0400]: If the way is part of relation that has a ref, and the way itself does not have a ref, then the relation ref should propagate to the way. Note that the conventions for ref tags are different for relations and ways. A way that is tagged ref=I 70 should be a member of a relation that is tagged network=US:I, ref=70. (And a relation tagged network=US:US:Business, ref=15, modifier=Business would correspond to a way tagged ref=US 15 Business.) This sort of adaptation might be a good candidate for the Lua transformations recently added to osm2pgsql, but I haven't had a chance to really look at those yet. (Also, of course, such ref projection would need to take concurrencies into account. Sigh.) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
I did spend some time trying to set up Phil's code myself for eventual deployment to the osm-us server. I got a good chunk of the way there but ran into some problems. I'll see if I can put some more time into it now that I'm home again. Toby On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Why is the US local chapter not running a tile server that renders shields and concurrencies? The tagging has been stable forever. The code has been working for years. Even a hacked demo ( now offline) was running for years before that. Stop waiting for the London tile server to give a stamp of approval for a local mapping idiom. If shields and concurrencies are important to you then why aren't you using the available tools? Argh! :-) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
Perhaps we can get together on IRC sometime soon and see what would need to be done. I can't make tonight but tomorrow early evening (like, 6PM MDT) would work. Ian, Phil, Toby, are you around then? On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I did spend some time trying to set up Phil's code myself for eventual deployment to the osm-us server. I got a good chunk of the way there but ran into some problems. I'll see if I can put some more time into it now that I'm home again. Toby On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Why is the US local chapter not running a tile server that renders shields and concurrencies? The tagging has been stable forever. The code has been working for years. Even a hacked demo ( now offline) was running for years before that. Stop waiting for the London tile server to give a stamp of approval for a local mapping idiom. If shields and concurrencies are important to you then why aren't you using the available tools? Argh! :-) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
* Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2013-06-18 10:40 -0600]: Perhaps we can get together on IRC sometime soon and see what would need to be done. I can't make tonight but tomorrow early evening (like, 6PM MDT) would work. Ian, Phil, Toby, are you around then? That's 8pm for me, which might work. Depending on other stuff I have going on that evening, I might not be available until 8:30 or so (EDT). (Wednesday's my only free evening this week, so if it doesn't work I won't be available until Saturday sometime.) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
Great. I am just catching up on SOTM US talks and watching yours. Enjoying it a lot! On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: * Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2013-06-18 10:40 -0600]: Perhaps we can get together on IRC sometime soon and see what would need to be done. I can't make tonight but tomorrow early evening (like, 6PM MDT) would work. Ian, Phil, Toby, are you around then? That's 8pm for me, which might work. Depending on other stuff I have going on that evening, I might not be available until 8:30 or so (EDT). (Wednesday's my only free evening this week, so if it doesn't work I won't be available until Saturday sometime.) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
A related question - do we have a clear idea of route relation completeness in the US? Looking at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Numbered_Highway_Relations http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Interstate_Highways_Relations This look pretty well organized, but I know how wikis can be deceiving like that. Also, how is the situation on the state level? I notice that for some states, there are no State Route relation pages. ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Numbered_Highway_Relations#See_also ) On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Great. I am just catching up on SOTM US talks and watching yours. Enjoying it a lot! On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: * Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org [2013-06-18 10:40 -0600]: Perhaps we can get together on IRC sometime soon and see what would need to be done. I can't make tonight but tomorrow early evening (like, 6PM MDT) would work. Ian, Phil, Toby, are you around then? That's 8pm for me, which might work. Depending on other stuff I have going on that evening, I might not be available until 8:30 or so (EDT). (Wednesday's my only free evening this week, so if it doesn't work I won't be available until Saturday sometime.) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] ref tags
On 6/18/2013 1:21 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: This look pretty well organized, but I know how wikis can be deceiving like that. Also, how is the situation on the state level? I notice that for some states, there are no State Route relation pages. (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Numbered_Highway_Relations#See_also) I think in the case of South Carolina, state routes are complete but not entered in the Wiki. (PS, most of the work was done a while ago by someone who was excited about route shields and the prospect of having them on a tile server somewhere) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] SOTM-US compared
Hi, this year I was at SOTM-US for the first time, and immediately thereafter travelled to the German-language version of FOSS4G, the FOSSGIS conference. There were lots of similarities - but also big contrasts. Below is a personal comparison that might or might not be useful or interesting. Both conferences were about the same size. I think FOSSGIS had a few more talks but SOTM-US had a few more visitors. Alas, FOSSGIS has three tracks of which traditionally one is exclusively OSM and the others are about other open source GIS stuff that might touch OSM but not necessarily so - so the number of pure OSM talks was probably higher at SOTM-US. SOTM-US was held in San Francisco, the (Wikipedia) leading financial and cultural centre of Northern California with about 800k inhabitants, and FOSSGIS was held in Rapperswil, a town of 8,000 half an hour away from Zurich, in Switzerland. Which might explain why at FOSSGIS we were greeted by the mayor and the president of the university, who said that because his university is on the shore of Lake Zurich, during the summer months he occasionally feels like he's running a swimming pool and not a university. Surprisingly, public transport was excellent in both locations; getting to the conference location from the airport was unproblematic. Both conferences covered their expenses through sponsorship, ticket sales, and paid-for workshops. Both offered sponsors the option of setting up a little booth. FOSSGIS has been doing that for a long time; for SOTM-US I don't if this was new. At FOSSGIS, as a community member, my entry was free but I was charged EUR 60 for the food and drink flat rate at the social event (pre-dinner beers and dinner at a farm house in walking distance); at SOTM-US, even speakers had to pay the US$75 ticket price but the social events were essentially parties thrown by different companies and as such, free of charge. The social event at FOSSGIS offered fantastic views over Lake Zurich and the mountains beyond; the social events at SOTM-US allowed one to catch a glimpse of what working for Stamen or Code for America is like. (Both offices were very cool in their own way. Although I doubt there's free beer during business hours.) On a third night, MapBox treated us to drinks at a local bar. Sponsors were very unobtrusive at both conferences. I knew it was like that at FOSSGIS but I was positively surprised by SOTM-US which, being held in the Land of the Free and of Unfettered Market Capitalism, I had feared might confront myself with much more sponsor messages than my European soul could take. In the end it was not a problem at all (big thank you to the sponsors at this point). Both conferences were held at universities, however SOTM-US was at a proper conference centre, whereas for FOSSGIS we used the normal student auditoriums. This has a certain tradition with FOSSGIS which is in many respects a low-budget event and doesn't spend a lot of money on being classy - if it is good enough for students then it is good enough for FOSSGIS. Video recording was through volunteers at FOSSGIS, and through paid professionals at SOTM-US; the FOSSGIS volunteers did an excellent job but of course student auditoriums are not as well prepared for recording as a conference centre. This year, for the first time since I can remember, FOSSGIS got the name badges right - large font, on lanyards, dual sided. It used to be a running gag with FOSSGIS about what would go wrong this time - either the font is too small, or only one side is printed and it flips over all the time, or whatnot. The name badges at SOTM-US were unremarkably professional - you didn't even notice that everything was right about them. (Good designers can probably tell a tale of this - if you do things just right, nobody will notice.) One small thing that struck me as extremely useful at SOTM-US was the programme booklet. Spring-bound, so you could easily have it flipped to the right page for the current day and small enough to fit in your pocket - the ideal utility for the conference nomad! FOSSGIS usually has a couple sheets of copied paper which are no match to a neat booklet. Definitely worth imitating. (FOSSGIS, to its defense, has a free, full-size, 140-page bound volume of conference proceedings where basically every speaker presents their topic on a couple written pages - which is certainly quite useful to many, but while you're there, the schedule booklet beats that easily.) On the whole, FOSSGIS (even though the conference itself has been around longer than OSM and much longer than any SOTM conference) still has a bit of an amateur flair to it, but in a way I think that's intentional. There may be many professionals there, but it isn't a professionally-run conference, and I find that charming. SOTM-US is of course not a professionaly-run conference either but it appears a little more like one. FOSSGIS is
Re: [Talk-us] SOTM-US compared
Frederik, Thank you for this valuable feedback, in particular regarding the sprints. I feel very badly about how the sprints went, and I want to go into detail why, and what I'm going to try to do next year about them. First, I want to say that for those people who were calling this a hack day, I don't blame you, for two reasons, but that I hope this changes in the future. 1. OSM does not have institutional experience with sprints It was evident to me that many OSMers were interested in the sprints, but had only attendeded hack days, so to them, the terms were synonymous. They are not. A sprint is far more organized, more like BoF sessions going on, each with their own space. Imagine if a conference tried to have every BoF going on simultaneously in one space at the same time. This wouldn't work, and so what we had at the event was the equivalent. 2. There were not sufficient resources were not put into the sprints Running sprints is expensive. It requires multiple rooms, or a very large room with lots of room for groups to work independently of one another, out of each others way In addition, I had expected that we would have a session for lightening talks, as we'd had in previous years. Lightening talks are key to getting sprints going, as it gives the opportunity for sprint organizers to talk about their project and lay out the goals for the sprints (which are very result-oriented). It was a surprise to me that we didn't have lightening talks, and by the time I found out, it was too late to change the situation, and so there wasn't any coordinated efforts around the sprints. Lastly, the number of days we were sprinting changed from two, to one, back to two, and the information about the sprints changed on the website. This lead to a lot of confusion in folks' mind. The feedback I received has been very positive on this topic, though, with more developers coming together than we had ever had before at a single OSM event (roughly 10% of attendees attended one or both sprint days). There is clear willingness by the community to work on challenging technical issues. I am hopeful that given the amount of interest, that sprints will be featured next year, and will be given proper resources. In addition, we should re-introduce the lightening talks, and bring up the sprints, and sprint coordination, at the opening ceremony, and again at a closing ceremony (which we also didn't have this year). I'll be doing my best to make sure this happens next year so that we move towards a more successful sprint in 2014. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] USGS topo maps not working?
The USGS topographic map layer isn't appearing for me as a background in Potlatch. I'm looking at it in this general area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.18018lon=-85.57084zoom=15layers=M Is this layer turned off / on the fritz / just very slow? - Ben Miller ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] USGS topo maps not working?
It would appear that the crossdomain.xml file Flash is expecting to be there isn't. I'm trying to get it to show up now... On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Ben Miller bborkmil...@gmail.com wrote: The USGS topographic map layer isn't appearing for me as a background in Potlatch. I'm looking at it in this general area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.18018lon=-85.57084zoom=15layers=M Is this layer turned off / on the fritz / just very slow? - Ben Miller ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] USGS topo maps not working?
Fixed the crossdomain.xml problem as best I can tell, but now seeing that there's just not any data there. Looks like the USGS is returning white tiles for zooms 13 in that area. http://tile.openstreetmap.us/usgs_scanned_topos/preview.html#13/45.1929/-85.5724 On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: It would appear that the crossdomain.xml file Flash is expecting to be there isn't. I'm trying to get it to show up now... On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Ben Miller bborkmil...@gmail.comwrote: The USGS topographic map layer isn't appearing for me as a background in Potlatch. I'm looking at it in this general area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.18018lon=-85.57084zoom=15layers=M Is this layer turned off / on the fritz / just very slow? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] SOTM-US compared
Hi, Frederik, Thanks for the compare contrast and I am happy you have enjoyed SOTM US. I am very happy you could make it and that you got a chance to (re-)connect with members of the US and international community. I have attended a FOSSGIS or two and can relate to your experience. They are very well attended, very professionally run. High quality talks, on average a little more technology-/developer-oriented - as are the attendees, I have a feeling. Serge - agreed the sprint day spaces were perhaps not ideal, but I think we got a lot out of them nonetheless. The turnout was amazing. It is hard to get a good space to allow for breakouts etc for so many people while on a budget. I think given the constraints you did a great job organizing this! So thank you! And point taken re: the lightning talks. It was a tough call with so many good submissions and we wanted to keep the # of tracks down to two. Next year, I want to re-introduce them for sure. On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Frederik, Thank you for this valuable feedback, in particular regarding the sprints. I feel very badly about how the sprints went, and I want to go into detail why, and what I'm going to try to do next year about them. First, I want to say that for those people who were calling this a hack day, I don't blame you, for two reasons, but that I hope this changes in the future. 1. OSM does not have institutional experience with sprints It was evident to me that many OSMers were interested in the sprints, but had only attendeded hack days, so to them, the terms were synonymous. They are not. A sprint is far more organized, more like BoF sessions going on, each with their own space. Imagine if a conference tried to have every BoF going on simultaneously in one space at the same time. This wouldn't work, and so what we had at the event was the equivalent. 2. There were not sufficient resources were not put into the sprints Running sprints is expensive. It requires multiple rooms, or a very large room with lots of room for groups to work independently of one another, out of each others way In addition, I had expected that we would have a session for lightening talks, as we'd had in previous years. Lightening talks are key to getting sprints going, as it gives the opportunity for sprint organizers to talk about their project and lay out the goals for the sprints (which are very result-oriented). It was a surprise to me that we didn't have lightening talks, and by the time I found out, it was too late to change the situation, and so there wasn't any coordinated efforts around the sprints. Lastly, the number of days we were sprinting changed from two, to one, back to two, and the information about the sprints changed on the website. This lead to a lot of confusion in folks' mind. The feedback I received has been very positive on this topic, though, with more developers coming together than we had ever had before at a single OSM event (roughly 10% of attendees attended one or both sprint days). There is clear willingness by the community to work on challenging technical issues. I am hopeful that given the amount of interest, that sprints will be featured next year, and will be given proper resources. In addition, we should re-introduce the lightening talks, and bring up the sprints, and sprint coordination, at the opening ceremony, and again at a closing ceremony (which we also didn't have this year). I'll be doing my best to make sure this happens next year so that we move towards a more successful sprint in 2014. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
