Re: [BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
Hello Leif, On Thursday, October 9, 2003 at 08:40 GMT -0600, a witness saw Leif Gregory [LG] commit: LG Well, I'm guessing it's about time to put this thread to rest. Yes, please. ;-) I know, I'm coming late to the party, but the seemingly obvious and appropriate solution is yet again being overlooked. LG I'd imagine that eventually, there won't be much differentiation to LG new users what constitutes the base TB software and what constitutes LG an add-on. I agree. LG To them it'll be the whole package, and a problem with an LG add-on will be a problem with TB in their eyes. Therefore, I think LG that ultimately, things will be better served by keeping them on LG TBBETA and TBUDL. Why not TBTECH and TBUDL? Really, think about regexps. When they were first introduced in TB, they were discussed in immense detail in TBUDL. There were lots of complaints and so TBTECH was set up for *advanced* discussions of TB related issues. That doesn't mean there is no discussion on TBUDL or TBBETA, just that in-depth discussions get pushed to TBTECH. Now regexp support is good enough that the only time regexps need to be discussed on TBBETA is when the template engine changes and major template overhauls are necessary. How often does that happen? If you still don't believe that regexps and plugins should be treated the same way, consider: - Both are for advanced users. - Both extend functionality. Some may argue that the functionality should be included natively in TB, but: - Neither plugins nor regexps are necessary for a good chunk of users. - Many people feel they have no hope of understanding either, but want the functionality. - Not very many people are actively developing plugins or regexps publicly on theses lists. Although, privately, who knows? The parallels are uncanny. As I see it, plugin support is not a BETA issue anymore since the feature exists in the official release. The plugin interface seems to be stable, though I suppose Alexey or Stefan are about the only ones who could say for sure. As such, it seems TBBETA is the absolute *worst* list[1] for these discussions. *ANY* of the other lists[1] would be more appropriate. Yes, the plugins themselves may be in beta stages, but by that same token, so are many of the regexp based templates that get developed on TBTECH. Heck, even if you really don't want TBTECH to be polluted, then why was TBDEV created? If it isn't for the discussion of the development of plugins (which would include user feedback), it seems to be a pointless list. I don't think it is reasonable for the moderators to delegate this decision onto the members. Sure, read the arguments, but then make a decision amongst yourselves and let us know. This is *not* a democracy, it is a friendly dictatorship and you guys are doing a fantastic job. Don't forget though, the reason it has worked so well is because you established clear rules and enforce them vigilantly. I don't see how this topic is any different. LG It just means that Marck, Allie, and I will have to come up with new LG trouting templates for people who post non-beta add-ons to TBBETA and LG vice-versa! ;-) Just mutate the trout you use for regexp discussions that go too far on TBUDL. ;-) [1] The lists referenced are the @thebat.dutaint.com lists of course. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs. Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: [BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
Thursday, October 9, 2003, 10:38:14 PM, Januk wrote: LG Well, I'm guessing it's about time to put this thread to rest. JA Yes, please. ;-) I know, I'm coming late to the party, but the JA seemingly obvious and appropriate solution is yet again being JA overlooked. snip JA I don't think it is reasonable for the moderators to delegate this JA decision onto the members. Sure, read the arguments, but then make a JA decision amongst yourselves and let us know. This is *not* a JA democracy, it is a friendly dictatorship and you guys are doing a JA fantastic job. Don't forget though, the reason it has worked so well JA is because you established clear rules and enforce them vigilantly. I JA don't see how this topic is any different. Here is some clarity of thought. Whenever I am in a management position, this too is my essential theme. Good luck Marck, Allie and Leif. -- Neal Using The Bat! v2.00.22 Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
Hello Neal, Friday, October 10, 2003, 1:12:24 AM, you wrote: NL Here is some clarity of thought. Whenever I am in a management NL position, this too is my essential theme. Good luck Marck, Allie NL and Leif. Maybe I wasn't entirely clear in my message. What we're trying to do is to give you all a say in where to put it. Yes, it is essentially a dictatorship (moderation), but we're also flexible and open-minded. The TB lists are a community, and as such, designed to support the users of TB in the best possible fashion. We could easily make a decision, but we'd like to hear from you all as well. I don't have any problem sticking the add-ons discussion on TBTECH, but I don't belive TBDEV is the right place for it. Eventually, I foresee TBDEV getting a lot of programming threads etc. However, there's nothing saying that if we put add-ons on TBDEV and later decide that it'd be better somewhere else that we couldn't move it. Right now plugins are dealing with Macros and Anti-SPAM, but I can see it going much further in the future (newsgroups, PIM, regexp generators etc.) Not knowing where it will take us, I'm guessing that at some point down the road, the plugins will be used by everyday users and not just by power-users. Then again, I've been wrong before. Just look at TBLH (TB List Hosters, a list run by TB for people who want to use TB as a list server). I thought it'd have a good deal of traffic. It sees a couple messages a month at most. -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.00.22 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: [BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
Hello Tony, Wednesday, October 8, 2003, 10:56:09 PM, you wrote: So far 3 of us (I think 3 any way) have voted to keep it here in TBBETA. I agree. I will be 4th. -- Best regards, Danyamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
Hi Danya, Wednesday, October 8, 2003, 4:43:37 PM, you wrote: I agree. I will be 4th. Me too! -- Best regards, Timothy Casten ZDC National Air Traffic Controllers Association National Communications Chairman Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
[BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
If The Bat is already running, BayesIt does a pretty good job of picking up spam. But if I close the Bat for a few hours, and restart, most of the spam just goes straight to the inbox (i.e. BayesIt doesn't pick it up. I have the Bat set to check for new mail automatically on startup, and mail comes via a local server (which means that checking is very quick - 1 or 2 seconds commonly). From this, I surmise that it takes a short time for the plug-in to initiate, and that the mail collection is too quick for it to catch up. If I'm right, I don't expect there's much can be done about it, but it could be documented. -- Best regards, Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 2.00.18 on Windows XP Build 2600 Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [BayesIt] Bayesit misses spam when The Bat! first opened
Hello, Nick: Monday, October 6, 2003, 9:59:49 AM, you wrote: NG If The Bat is already running, BayesIt does a pretty good job of NG picking up spam. But if I close the Bat for a few hours, and NG restart, most of the spam just goes straight to the inbox (i.e. NG BayesIt doesn't pick it up. As you know, I am anticipating installing Bayesian filtering myself one day soon, so this interests me. As a work-around, could it be helpful to install a local email server on your desktop machine itself? That server or TB or Bayesit could be configured to start with the machine - or not. -- Best wishes, David Current beta is 2.00.22 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
