Re[2]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse) REQUEST FOR MODERATION
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are RG Unfounded - he posted the message with the headers I believe you should be responding to Paul Van Noord. Nevertheless, posting the headers demonstrates nothing, I believe. -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Programmers do it bit by bit. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[6]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : Come on! The title itself is meant to be provocative! Mailing List Abuse - where is the so called abuse? It was a PRIVATE EMAIL and nothing to do with the list. I I used the word 'abuse' because the person abused the purposes of I the list by (1) not posting to the list, which is fine of course I (2) used the list to obtain my email address, thereby sending me an I email which had nothing to do with _the_list_ but instead served to I put me on guard as if to say ...I know who you are etc. If he I didn't have access to the list, he won't have had access to my I email address and thus would not have sent me such an email. He I _knew_ that his actions were suspect and reprehensible thats why, I like a cowardly rat hiding under a rock, he tried to cover his I tracks. Thats the difference between men and boys. I've been using this list for almost 3 years and never got such emails. You must have done something VERY wrong. I Here, let me help you a bit... I don't remember asking you for help. So don't lecture me, please! I I'm not sure if English is your sixth language or not, but its I clear to me from your posts that its either (a) not your first I language (b) Well, it's not my only language as you guessed. Probably that's why I don't see any threat on the email you've receive. Paranoia must be a requisite to be a celebrity. -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: Mailing List Abuse
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : I love a good witch hunt. At least it will spur some more excitement on the list. Right up to their eventual ban (I hope). V As you are a relatively new guy here: it is a THEBAT beta list. If V you other problems, it is not the place for that. Please, gag the man. Since he arrived, we had more traffic than ever without much benefit for the beta cycle. Also, we had insinuations that RitLabs or CIFNet released his personal data based on almost no evidence. I'm fed up with him! -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Commander, I'm getting excited again... * Bashir Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Hallo Goncalo, On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:23:09 +0100GMT (25-8-2007, 8:23, where I live), you wrote: GF Please, gag the man. moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Goncalo. ' Please do not post messages which are direct attacks against other users / people. This is a clear violation of list rule B.3 and will not be tolerated. Section B 3. Do not turn a discussion into a slanging match by resorting to personal insults and/or derogatory remarks. Things such as, but not limited to: You're an ^*$, or any variant thereof. Telling someone to do something to you, themselves or someone else. Name-calling. Making remarks of a clearly personal and insulting nature. Making statements clearly designed to aggravate a situation or taunt someone. If a list member is consistently abusive, they will be banned from the list. /Section B To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof Fate: Protects fools, little children, and echo moderators. pgpUPhHBVBzVg.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : GF Please, gag the man. RO moderator RO Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not RO just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have RO instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Goncalo. RO ' RO Please do not post messages which are direct RO attacks against other users / people. This is a clear violation of RO list rule B.3 and will not be tolerated. I'm sorry but I'm a little fed up with the latest posts/threads. I didn't like the light accusations/insinuations made against Ritlabs and/or CIFNet by our new anonymous (and self-entitled) 'celebrity' especially because he presented little to no evidence. Nevertheless, regard this and the gag post as venting... -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Garbage In, Gospel Out Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hello, I hope a moderator can look into this, but my guess is, probably not. Please send these kind of messages to moderator. We are not interested here. Thank you. -- Vilius Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Roelof, Fate: Protects fools, little children, and echo moderators. Memories of bygone years when there were such things as Fido, BBS's and echos. Apparently they are still alive and well in some places. -- Gleason Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Goncalo, Garbage In, Gospel Out. Some of us don't have a gospel to out, but it is true that a lot of what comes in is garbage, and the one thing we have a say in is what comes out. And unlike our physical worlds, all we have to deal with here is words on a screen. The effective way to deal with a troll is to not respond to his postings in any way. Of course, this does require a certain level of agreement, which can remain unspoken or at least offlist, among posters. This is simply ancient echo/newsgroup wisdom. -- Gleason Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Garbage In, Gospel Out. And unlike our physical worlds, all we have to deal with here is words on a screen. The effective way to deal with a troll is to not respond to his postings in any way. Of course, this does require a certain level of agreement, which can remain unspoken or at least offlist, among posters. This is simply ancient echo/newsgroup wisdom. It is the easy and irresponsible way to deem someone a troll then conspire to ignore that person. Indie had genuine concerns although some would have been better posted to another list or in the forums. Getting an off list email by someone trying to hide NEEDS to be addressed. I had always understood the word troll in this context to mean someone who not only starts trouble but baits others into it. Apparently some of you apply that term to someone that disagrees with your preconceive notions. I suppose I too qualify as a troll For the record I do not know Indie outside of Ritlabs i.e. we are not buddies -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.21 (BETA) on Windows XP, Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
8/25/2007 11:51 AM Hi Rick, On 8/25/2007 Rick Grunwald wrote: RG It is the easy and irresponsible way to deem someone a troll then RG conspire to ignore that person. RG Indie had genuine concerns although some would have been better posted RG to another list or in the forums. Getting an off list email by someone RG trying to hide NEEDS to be addressed. RG I had always understood the word troll in this context to mean RG someone who not only starts trouble but baits others into it. RG Apparently some of you apply that term to someone that disagrees with RG your preconceive notions. I suppose I too qualify as a troll RG For the record I do not know Indie outside of Ritlabs i.e. we are RG not buddies I thank you for taking the time to read this and for trying to understand what is being said. First of all, Indie_Dev is an admitted alias for the sole purpose of anonymity. Receiving anonymous PM is only a reciprocation of what he has initiated. If that NEEDS to be addressed then his anonymity deserves the same treatment. These are list rules: 1. Stick to the facts, unless stating your opinion, but please make it clear that it is your opinion. 2. Do not use profanity. This list is not the place for it. If a list member is consistently abusive, they will be banned from the list. 3. Do not turn a discussion into a slanging match by resorting to personal insults and/or derogatory remarks. Indie_Dev violated all of these multiple times before he even received the PM. Does he deserve a pass because he is a self-appointed anonymous celebrity who unabashedly proclaims his level of expertise to be significantly superior to the other list members? His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are _very_ serious and should not have been tolerated, under _any_ circumstances. It seems obvious to me that what is right for the goose is also right for the gander. No one deserves a genuflect. It is past time to be fair! Thanks for listening. -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Hi Rick, It is the easy and irresponsible way to deem someone a troll then conspire to ignore that person. Indie had genuine concerns although some would have been better posted to another list or in the forums. Getting an off list email by someone trying to hide NEEDS to be addressed. I had always understood the word troll in this context to mean someone who not only starts trouble but baits others into it. Apparently some of you apply that term to someone that disagrees with your preconceive notions. I suppose I too qualify as a troll I'd have to concur with your thoughts... being another developer that has 'trolled' this list since 1998, but infrequently do I have great insight to add... Indie has presented valid points to support his opinions, and to me those opinions and the supporting comments should be welcomed... his repartee to some dissenting opinions has typically been friendly in nature, thus I see no reason one should want to shun him on this list. His concern after being direct mailed anonymously offlist by someone presenting info that would make the most sense to be from someone privy to this list is warranted... and that type of behavior, in my opinion is just wrong, and there's nothing wrong with making that opinion well known to the perpetrator of such an act. Best Regards, Jim -- Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Paul, RG I had always understood the word troll in this context to mean RG someone who not only starts trouble but baits others into it. RG Apparently some of you apply that term to someone that disagrees with RG your preconceive notions. I suppose I too qualify as a troll As time has marched on, trolls have become more sophisticated. In usenet these days, we see them using the one-two punch. Some good information to obscure what they are doing and to confuse the issue. I haven't been posting notions lately preconceived or not, so I don't think troll candidates have been disagreeing with me. What I have seen is confusion and consternation and uncertainty how to deal with certain people. I offered a suggestion. Perhaps some will find it useful. RG For the record I do not know Indie outside of Ritlabs i.e. we are RG not buddies I thank you for taking the time to read this and for trying to understand what is being said. First of all, Indie_Dev is an admitted alias for the sole purpose of anonymity. Receiving anonymous PM is only a reciprocation of what he has initiated. If that NEEDS to be addressed then his anonymity deserves the same treatment. These are list rules: 1. Stick to the facts, unless stating your opinion, but please make it clear that it is your opinion. 2. Do not use profanity. This list is not the place for it. If a list member is consistently abusive, they will be banned from the list. 3. Do not turn a discussion into a slanging match by resorting to personal insults and/or derogatory remarks. Indie_Dev violated all of these multiple times before he even received the PM. Does he deserve a pass because he is a self-appointed anonymous celebrity who unabashedly proclaims his level of expertise to be significantly superior to the other list members? His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are _very_ serious and should not have been tolerated, under _any_ circumstances. It seems obvious to me that what is right for the goose is also right for the gander. No one deserves a genuflect. It is past time to be fair! Thanks for listening. -- Gleason Using 3.99.20 (BETA) on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Hello Paul On Saturday, August 25, 2007 you wrote: RG to another list or in the forums. Getting RG an off list email by someone RG trying to hide NEEDS to be addressed. RG I had always understood the word troll in RG this context to mean RG someone who not only starts trouble but RG baits others into it. RG Apparently some of you apply that term to RG someone that disagrees with RG I suppose I too qualify as a troll I thank you for taking the time to read this and for trying to understand what is being said. First of all, Indie_Dev is an admitted alias for the sole purpose of anonymity. Receiving anonymous PM is only a reciprocation of what he has initiated. If that NEEDS to be addressed then his anonymity deserves the same treatment. I am rgrun on several forums as that's the only format they will take. I am know that way. It is hardly meant to be obtuse. I am surprised you make no distinction between anonymity and a poorly spoofed but threatening email (I know where you live!) I personally in that situation have screamed at least as loud both here and to the perpetrator's ISP and to that ISPs upstream provider His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are _very_ serious and should not have been tolerated, under _any_ circumstances. It seems obvious to me that what is How was it determined that they were unfounded? If you have proof of that then by all means you are correct. If so please share. If not then you do us all an injustice as, in your words, the accusations ARE very serious I am not baiting you. I really want to know if he was full of it or not. I see that he came in like gangbusters and probably SHOULD have lurked for a bit to see what this list is about. However there is a definite tendency to be slavishly accepting and defensive about the Bat and Ritlabs and ignoring their flaws. This man was rejected as much for this as he was for anything he did on the list It is past time to be fair! It is NEVER past the time to be fair -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.21 (BETA) on Windows XP, Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Paul, RG I had always understood the word troll in this context to mean RG someone who not only starts trouble but baits others into it. RG Apparently some of you apply that term to someone that disagrees with RG your preconceive notions. I suppose I too qualify as a troll The point being that Rit can take full advantage of whatever useful suggestions that might be made without anybody responding to what might feel like provocative remarks. Such responses are unnecessary, and counterproductive to what we are trying to accomplish here. IMO. If it might be true that private information has been compromised, our strong and fair moderator will deal with the situation appropriately, I'm sure. We also don't need to discuss the alleged compromising here. -- Gleason Using 3.99.20 (BETA) on Windows XP, 5.1, Build 2600. IMAP email provider is Fastmail, which uses Cyrus server software. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : RG Apparently some of you apply that term to someone that disagrees with RG your preconceive notions. I suppose I too qualify as a troll RG For the record I do not know Indie outside of Ritlabs i.e. we RG are not buddies PVN I thank you for taking the time to read this and for trying to PVN understand what is being said. First of all, Indie_Dev is an PVN admitted alias for the sole purpose of anonymity. Receiving PVN anonymous PM is only a reciprocation of what he has initiated. If PVN that NEEDS to be addressed then his anonymity deserves the same PVN treatment. PVN These are list rules: PVN 1. Stick to the facts, unless stating your opinion, but please PVN make it clear that it is your opinion. PVN 2. Do not use profanity. This list is not the place for it. If a PVN list member is consistently abusive, they will be banned from the PVN list. PVN 3. Do not turn a discussion into a slanging match by resorting to PVN personal insults and/or derogatory remarks. PVN Indie_Dev violated all of these multiple times before he even PVN received the PM. Does he deserve a pass because he is a PVN self-appointed anonymous celebrity who unabashedly proclaims his PVN level of expertise to be significantly superior to the other list PVN members? PVN His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are PVN _very_ serious and should not have been tolerated, under _any_ PVN circumstances. It seems obvious to me that what is right for the PVN goose is also right for the gander. No one deserves a genuflect. PVN It is past time to be fair! PVN Thanks for listening. Thank you for wording my point of view so eloquently. -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Exactly what KIND of Water Music did you have in mind? - H Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are _very_ serious and should not have been tolerated, under _any_ circumstances. It seems obvious to me that what is RG How was it determined that they were unfounded? If you have proof RG of that then by all means you are correct. If so please share. If RG not then you do us all an injustice as, in your words, the RG accusations ARE very serious Because Indie_dev didn't present evidence of what he was claiming. You'll agree that Thank you for the excellent description of yourself. I feel sad for you and pity for Atlanta. presents no treat nor evidence whatsoever relating Ritlabs/CIFNet to the anonymous emails presented. Nor does it present any kind of threat. RG definite tendency to be slavishly accepting and defensive about the RG Bat and Ritlabs and ignoring their flaws. This man was rejected as RG much for this as he was for anything he did on the list Sure TB has flaw as almost any piece of software. -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias Modem Police...we clocked you at over 1600 cps. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : GP The point being that Rit can take full advantage of whatever GP useful suggestions that might be made without anybody responding GP to what might feel like provocative remarks. Such responses are GP unnecessary, and counterproductive to what we are trying to GP accomplish here. IMO. GP If it might be true that private information has been compromised, GP our strong and fair moderator will deal with the situation GP appropriately, I'm sure. We also don't need to discuss the alleged GP compromising here. Come on! The title itself is meant to be provocative! Mailing List Abuse - where is the so called abuse? It was a PRIVATE EMAIL and nothing to do with the list. Unlike many others, he disguise himself behind an alias and disrupts the purpose of the list. -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias MS-DOS - celebrating ten years of continous obsolescence. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse) REQUEST FOR MODERATION
Hello Goncalo On Saturday, August 25, 2007 you wrote: In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] His totally unfounded accusations against Ritlabs and CIFNet are Unfounded - he posted the message with the headers Do you work for RItlabs that you can make such a statement on behalf of the company? RG How was it determined that they were RG unfounded? If you have proof RG of that then by all means you are correct. RG If so please share. If Again I ask Thank you for the excellent description of yourself. I feel sad for you and pity for Atlanta. I resent being patronized publicly by you and am asking for someone FROM the company to step in on this conversation You sir are way out of line. No one on this list deserves that kind of treatment. -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.21 (BETA) on Windows XP, Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse))
Hallo Goncalo, On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:39:25 +0100GMT (26-8-2007, 0:39, where I live), you wrote: GF Thank you for wording my point of view so eloquently. After a message has been moderatied, it's not done to keep on replying to that moderator message. Especially not when it's rather off topic. moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Goncalo. ' This topic has gone way off / too long / too heated and I am forced to pronounce it dead in fairness to the purpose and other members of the list. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. For anyone unfamiliar with Dead Horse policy, DEAD means DEAD. NO REPLIES to the list, only off-list or on TBOT. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof Arguing with a moderator in public may be hazardous to your access. pgpP4X5WO8v86.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse)
Saturday, August 25, 2007, 6:51:13 PM, you wrote: In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : GP The point being that Rit can take full advantage of whatever GP useful suggestions that might be made without anybody responding GP to what might feel like provocative remarks. Such responses are GP unnecessary, and counterproductive to what we are trying to GP accomplish here. IMO. GP If it might be true that private information has been compromised, GP our strong and fair moderator will deal with the situation GP appropriately, I'm sure. We also don't need to discuss the alleged GP compromising here. Come on! The title itself is meant to be provocative! Mailing List Abuse - where is the so called abuse? It was a PRIVATE EMAIL and nothing to do with the list. I used the word 'abuse' because the person abused the purposes of the list by (1) not posting to the list, which is fine of course (2) used the list to obtain my email address, thereby sending me an email which had nothing to do with _the_list_ but instead served to put me on guard as if to say ...I know who you are etc. If he didn't have access to the list, he won't have had access to my email address and thus would not have sent me such an email. He _knew_ that his actions were suspect and reprehensible thats why, like a cowardly rat hiding under a rock, he tried to cover his tracks. Thats the difference between men and boys. THAT, is abuse. He abused the _nature_ of the list, in much the same way those who troll, don't abide by the list, use the list as their personal raging, ranting and venting outlet, _abuse_ it. Here, let me help you a bit... http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-searchva=abuse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse I'm not sure if English is your sixth language or not, but its clear to me from your posts that its either (a) not your first language (b) you're just being argumentative, disruptive and blatantly foolish. Judging from the posts this thread has received - none of which I've responded to - since I'm in 'observer' mode until we figure out who it was on the list. Unlike many others, he disguise himself behind an alias Oh, being anon is a crime now? and disrupts the purpose of the list. I don't even know how to respond to that. So, I'll just leave it alone and leave you to your unfounded and baseless accusations - all of which are without merit. -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse))
Hallo Indie_Dev, On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 19:47:43 -0400GMT (26-8-2007, 1:47, where I live), you wrote: ID I used the word 'abuse' because the person abused the purposes of the When a thread gets dead horsed, it's closed for everybody. moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Indie_Dev. ' This topic has gone way off / too long / too heated and I am forced to pronounce it dead in fairness to the purpose and other members of the list. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. For anyone unfamiliar with Dead Horse policy, DEAD means DEAD. NO REPLIES to the list, only off-list or on TBOT. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof Sensors report Moderator - Red Alert ! Arm phaser bank pgp5GCL9xBHAV.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Mod: Personal Attack (was: Mailing List Abuse))
Saturday, August 25, 2007, 8:02:25 PM, you wrote: Hallo Indie_Dev, On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 19:47:43 -0400GMT (26-8-2007, 1:47, where I live), you wrote: ID I used the word 'abuse' because the person abused the purposes of the When a thread gets dead horsed, it's closed for everybody. Sorry, I was just catching up on posts and replied to that one before I saw the dead horsed post. -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mailing List Abuse
I hope a moderator can look into this, but my guess is, probably not. It looks like having put three people in my kill filter, I'm now getting derogatory emails sent directly to my email, thereby bypassing the list. So obviously whoever this person is 1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. 2. And they could only have obtained that information from the credit card information I used to purchase The Bat! as my IP address does not resolve to Atlanta. 3. Is somehow associated with RitLabs or CIFNet as that is the only way to obtain my PRIVATE and PERSONAL information from my purchasing info. Once I figure this all out, I will determine what course of action to take. In the interim, I'm going to contact both RITlabs and CIFNet. Below is the email I just received, complete with headers = Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: by 10.140.226.8 with SMTP id y8cs80830rvg; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.51.17 with SMTP id y17mr4175184agy.118796788; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from nl2.trancecrypt.com ([62.148.169.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id i7si558285nfh.2007.08.24.07.44.24; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 62.148.169.47 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of [EMAIL PROTECTED]) client-ip=62.148.169.47; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 62.148.169.47 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of [EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:43:59 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Excellent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: No malware detected. Look, I know that some of you are classic cases of anti-social misfits, degenerative school yard bullies and thrive on harassing people on-line, taking things personal for _no_ reason whatsoever and putting people down so you can feel good about yourselves. Thank you for the excellent description of yourself. I feel sad for you and pity for Atlanta. = -- Best regards, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hello Indie_Dev On Friday, August 24, 2007 you wrote: 3. Is somehow associated with RitLabs or CIFNet as that is the only way to obtain my PRIVATE and PERSONAL information from my purchasing info. Once I figure this all out, I will determine what course of action to take. In the interim, I'm going to contact both RITlabs and CIFNet. 1)The IP is out of the Netherlands 2) Denit Internet services It shouldn't be too hard to get there internet service provider involved. Get them banned from Google while you're at it. -- Rick The Bat Version 3.99.21 (BETA) on Windows XP, Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hello, Indie_Dev! On Fri, 24 Aug 2007, at 12:55:47 [GMT -0400] (which was 19:55 where I live) you wrote: I Received: from SERVER1 ( [68.153.194.5]) I by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id I i13sm4609270wxd.2007.08.24.09.56.14 I (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:56:14 -0700 (PDT) http://whois.domaintools.com/68.153.194.5 Bye! VB Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hello Indie_Dev, Friday, August 24, 2007, 7:55:47 PM, you wrote: 1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. 2. And they could only have obtained that information from the credit card information I used to purchase The Bat! as my IP address does not resolve to Atlanta. Hello Indie, Your accusation is *very* serious and by all means *do* investigate. However someone (maybe a reader of your blog) may identified you. You wrote that you are quite known, developed or took part in the development of several well known products and maintain a well known blog. 1+1 = 2 for someone who may already know you from other places. I have just one question. Why do you need anonymity? Posting your thoughts -even when some people disagree- could carry the weight of your name. It's quite logical. If you are a well known software designer your experience *matters*. For example I'm a mathematician. I never had any to do with software design. While I could have some ideas that in theory should work, these ideas haven't been necessary tested in real situations. Feedback *especially* from knowledgeable and experienced people carry more weight than others, at least at specific fields. -- George M. Menegakis Using The Bat v3.99.17 (BETA) on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. I was wrong. That page says South Florida and Atlanta is Georgia. My mistake. I dont know where he got that info then. Certainly not from RITLABS or CIFNet. Vili Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. Check this page: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-728392-p-9.html It seems, you said it yourself? Or he was just smarter than you and know something that we dont know :))) Or at least smarter than me. (It was not me, I could not even read the beta nowadays, I am just tracking spammers sometimes for the inet police in Hungary. Dumb ones, who leaves their IP behind them while harvesting money from innocent people :( I typed in your nickname into Google, there was some match.) Vili Hungarian dealer of The Bat! Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mailing List Abuse
Friday, August 24, 2007, 1:16:12 PM, you wrote: Hello Indie_Dev On Friday, August 24, 2007 you wrote: 3. Is somehow associated with RitLabs or CIFNet as that is the only way to obtain my PRIVATE and PERSONAL information from my purchasing info. Once I figure this all out, I will determine what course of action to take. In the interim, I'm going to contact both RITlabs and CIFNet. 1)The IP is out of the Netherlands 2) Denit Internet services It shouldn't be too hard to get there internet service provider involved. Get them banned from Google while you're at it. Actually we're on it. I exported all the mailing list emails (since I don't delete them) and passed them along to a friend of mine who is an expert at this stuff. We'll hopefully know shortly who (in the mailing list) the person who sent me this email is and how they got access to my information. -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mailing List Abuse
Friday, August 24, 2007, 1:18:08 PM, you wrote: Hello, Indie_Dev! On Fri, 24 Aug 2007, at 12:55:47 [GMT -0400] (which was 19:55 where I live) you wrote: I Received: from SERVER1 ( [68.153.194.5]) I by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id I i13sm4609270wxd.2007.08.24.09.56.14 I (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:56:14 -0700 (PDT) http://whois.domaintools.com/68.153.194.5 Bye! VB Not sure what that means VB. Sure this person could just be being facetious with his comments and the fact that the IP resolves out of Atlanta, but then why would he not have posted via the list that being the case? That email address is not on the mailing list AFAIK. The fact that they went out of their way to use an anon (and being _stupid_ enough to think that there is such as thing as anon when it comes to being online) to send that to me directly means that (apart from being cowardly bastards) they have an idea of who I am, quite apart from my Atlanta IP (which is meaningless). Jake will be able to trace the IP right to the _desktop_ the email came from. Its what he does for a living. He's very - very - good at it. I love a good witch hunt. At least it will spur some more excitement on the list. Right up to their eventual ban (I hope). - JD -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mailing List Abuse
Friday, August 24, 2007, 3:41:36 PM, you wrote: 1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. I was wrong. That page says South Florida and Atlanta is Georgia. My mistake. I dont know where he got that info then. Certainly not from RITLABS or CIFNet. Vili I'm not making _any_ accusations, which is why I carefully worded my original post. -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mailing List Abuse
Friday, August 24, 2007, 1:21:10 PM, you wrote: Hello Indie_Dev, Friday, August 24, 2007, 7:55:47 PM, you wrote: 1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. 2. And they could only have obtained that information from the credit card information I used to purchase The Bat! as my IP address does not resolve to Atlanta. Hello Indie, Your accusation is *very* serious and by all means *do* investigate. However someone (maybe a reader of your blog) may identified you. You wrote that you are quite known, developed or took part in the development of several well known products and maintain a well known blog. 1+1 = 2 for someone who may already know you from other places. I'm not _that_ famous that putting 1+1 together would reveal my identity. Even if you put in indie_dev on search engines, you'd be hard pressed to figure out who I am, unless I _told_ you who I was. Heck, I even have an eBay page; so its not like I'm hiding in plain site. I have just one question. Why do you need anonymity? Posting your thoughts -even when some people disagree- could carry the weight of your name. Simple. I use this gmail address for mailing lists, posting on tech forums, sites I purchase stuff from etc. That way, since I don't stick around, I don't get spam and stuff like that lingering long after I'm gone and they don't have my work or personal email. Its a throwaway address. It's quite logical. If you are a well known software designer your experience *matters*. For example I'm a mathematician. I never had any to do with software design. While I could have some ideas that in theory should work, these ideas haven't been necessary tested in real situations. Feedback *especially* from knowledgeable and experienced people carry more weight than others, at least at specific fields. Sure, try sharing _those_ thoughts on a mailing list which has a few, shall we say, undesirables and see how far _that_ gets you. The point is, I don't flaunt who I am because it is irrelevant. I don't go throwing my weight around or anything like that. Its not who I am that matters, but what I contribute. I only joined this mailing list because (1) I wanted to see if I should stick with The Bat! or not by tracking its dev progress (2) I'm on vacation and have far too much time on my hands. -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mailing List Abuse
Friday, August 24, 2007, 3:37:20 PM, you wrote: 1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. Check this page: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-728392-p-9.html It seems, you said it yourself? Yes, thats me This is me... http://myworld.ebay.com/indie_dev http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856929 http://www.maxoutput.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3245 http://help.lockergnome.com/vista/Duplex-ing-bug-head-toe-HP-erftopic-31726-days0-orderasc-20.html etc Though I found one or two that weren't me. Looks like I'm not the only one using that handle, though I'm not surprised since there are lots of duplicate handles online. As you can see, I _live_ in Florida, not Atlanta. And the connection to Atlanta is what sparked my original thread because that person would only know of any such connection unless they _knew_ who I was. Or he was just smarter than you and know something that we dont know :))) Or at least smarter than me. No, he's not that smart. He's a sniveling coward. If he _was_ smart, he wouldn't have sent me the email in the first place. If he wasn't a coward, he would have just - been a man - and just posted that via the list so that I can stick him in my kill filter. But he went through the trouble of trying to hide his tracks. You don't go to those lengths just reply to someone on a list that is largely already made up of anon people anyway. No, he's an idiot. Idiots, by their very nature, aren't smart. Though they like to think so. (It was not me, I could not even read the beta nowadays, I am just tracking spammers sometimes for the inet police in Hungary. Dumb ones, who leaves their IP behind them while harvesting money from innocent people :( I typed in your nickname into Google, there was some match.) Vili Hungarian dealer of The Bat! Well, I'm not making any accusations. But thanks for letting us know that Hungarians (I once had a Hungarian girlfriend actually, name was Timea. Nice, very smart people) aren't idiots. :) -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Mailing List Abuse
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : I Not sure what that means VB. I Sure this person could just be being facetious with his comments I and the fact that the IP resolves out of Atlanta, but then why I would he not have posted via the list that being the case? I've sent you one email off-list, so what? I That email address is not on the mailing list AFAIK. The fact that I they went out of their way to use an anon (and being _stupid_ I enough to think that there is such as thing as anon when it comes I to being online) to send that to me directly means that (apart from I being cowardly bastards) they have an idea of who I am, quite apart I from my Atlanta IP (which is meaningless). I Jake will be able to trace the IP right to the _desktop_ the email I came from. Its what he does for a living. He's very - very - good I at it. I I love a good witch hunt. At least it will spur some more I excitement on the list. Right up to their eventual ban (I hope). I - JD Get a grip on yourself! -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias What this country needs is a good five-cent nickel. Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hello Indie_Dev, Friday, August 24, 2007, 11:58:00 PM, you wrote: Sure, try sharing _those_ thoughts on a mailing list which has a few, shall we say, undesirables and see how far _that_ gets you. You won't have something to loose besides your time. The point is, I don't flaunt who I am because it is irrelevant. I don't go throwing my weight around or anything like that. Its not who I am that matters, but what I contribute. You missed my point. You *SHOULD* through your weight in cases that expertise is required. An opinion from a knowledgeable and experienced persons *DOES* matter. -- George M. Menegakis Using The Bat v3.99.17 (BETA) on Windows XP Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hello, Friday, August 24, 2007, 10:49:28 PM, you wrote: I Jake will be able to trace the IP right to the _desktop_ the email came I from. Its what he does for a living. He's very - very - good at it. If he says it's me (1), you'd better start questioning his competence! :-) (1) I don't even know what exactly has happened. My thread starts with a Re:. Perhaps I'll receive the first message tomorrow... -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 3.99.6 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (0 days 7:22:37) on Uno AMD Duron Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Mailing List Abuse
Hallo Indie_Dev, On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:55:47 -0400GMT (24-8-2007, 18:55 +0200, where I live), you wrote: ID I hope a moderator can look into this, but my guess is, probably not. Next time try that via private mail and not the list. The preferred address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] so it gets to Marck and me both. (It says so in your welcoming message.) ID 1. By making a reference to Atlanta, quite possibly knows who I am. Your IP-address resolves to Atlanta, see Valerye's message mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ID Received: from nl2.trancecrypt.com ([62.148.169.47]) ID by mx.google.com with ESMTP id Ouch, that hurts. It resolves to Amsterdam and I'm part of small minority of Dutch list members. The IP-address belongs to something calling itself neomailbox.net Upon visiting www.neomailbox.net it appears to be a company that offers anonymous e-mail and surfing. So I guess it's not likely you'll identify the sender. And it's not unlikely that you've got to look for a foreigner (from my point of view) in stead of somebody Dutch. Had you taken this off list to the moderators, your nemesis wouldn't have known that his message was bothering you. moderator on I consider this topic closed. Any follow-ups should go off list to either Indie_Dev or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] moderator off -- Groetjes, Roelof moderator tbbeta Postscript: The only thing of interest in some letters. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.99.21 (BETA) Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 2 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpZh9AhBGyWi.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Mailing List Abuse
Friday, August 24, 2007, 5:41:08 PM, you wrote: You missed my point. You *SHOULD* through your weight in cases that expertise is required. An opinion from a knowledgeable and experienced persons *DOES* matter. Ah yes, I do see your point, but again, I'd rather just be that unknown entity than some celebrity (which I most certainly am) who some idiots get to take potshots at in a list because thats the _only_ they'd _ever_ get near someone like me in any way, shape or form. You know, a lot of people one wouldn't otherwise ack in public, somehow tend to vent their jealousy, hated, anti-social behavior etc on the Internet. I've been there more times than one; and the only lesson I learned is that you can't beat them and you sure as heck don't want to join them. I'm a lot older and more wiser now, so all this stuff just doesn't get to me. My only concern over the email I received today is because I felt that my personal data (given to Ritlabs and CIFnet) had been breached, since thats the only way anyone would know who I was. In this day and age of rampant data theft, you just can't be too careful. -- cheers, Indie_Dev Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Mailing List Abuse
Hello Indie_Dev, I love a good witch hunt. At least it will spur some more excitement on the list. Right up to their eventual ban (I hope). As you are a relatively new guy here: it is a THEBAT beta list. If you other problems, it is not the place for that. -- Vili The Bat 3.99.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Szervizcsomag 2 Current beta is 3.99.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
