Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif Gregory everyone else, on 23-Okt-2005 at 20:00 you (Leif Gregory) wrote: Wow.. You check them all? I guess I could see if you really check every single message for PGP authenticity. Erm... Leif... I really want you to moderate yourself for replying in a DH'ed thread, now. ;-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) When I was younger I used to think I knew all the anwers. Now I'm beginning to realise I only know some of the questions... (unknown) Current beta is 3.62.01 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Curtis, Saturday, October 22, 2005, 3:58:26 PM, you wrote: BTW, it was so cool to have ThunderBird autocheck PGP signatures. But hey, it's just a tinsy winsy click on an icon in TB!. I wonder then why I rarely do that little click action. It's so darned *annoying* having to repeatedly do it!! I only do it when needed. Wow.. You check them all? I guess I could see if you really check every single message for PGP authenticity. I only check them when I really want to be sure about the sender because the message content was critical in one way or another. The only other time I check them is when someone does a PGP test. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org It ain't over 'til the Moderator says, Knock it off! Current beta is 3.62 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
On 20/10/2005 at 3:30:17 PM [GMT -0500], Leif Gregory wrote: If I want to see it, it's just a single double-click away. I find this the weakest argument. It's a huge problem when it's a repetitive action. You double click and the browser may or may not come to the forefront. If it doesn't come to the forefront, you need another click to do so. Then another action to get TB! back into focus. If you like templates, and personalities, with the ability to auto-assign them based on recipient address, then you do so because you know what repetition is about. :) I don't wish to use ThunderBird again, but I sure missed being able to load them images at will. :) IMAP has mellowed me a lot. I'm a lot more tolerant now and really am not so fussy about it. BTW, it was so cool to have ThunderBird autocheck PGP signatures. But hey, it's just a tinsy winsy click on an icon in TB!. I wonder then why I rarely do that little click action. It's so darned *annoying* having to repeatedly do it!! I only do it when needed. -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.61.12 Echo (Beta) / http://specs.aimlink.name PGPKey: http://rsakey.aimlink.name ...A living example of Artificial Intelligence. pgpPiXG1P828c.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.14 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Offsite Images)
On 21/10/2005 at 9:47:55 AM [GMT -0500], Leif Gregory wrote: I'm deadhorsing the issue, I should have read the entire thread before jumping in. My apologies for having erred. :notworthy: -- -= Curtis =- The Bat! v3.61.12 Echo (Beta) / http://specs.aimlink.name PGPKey: http://rsakey.aimlink.name ...Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU. pgpUmH6SdHgtW.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.14 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif, On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, at 10:10:02 [GMT -0600] (which was 12:10:02 PM in NY, USA) Leif Gregory wrote: Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:49:40 AM, you wrote: John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. I think part of the point Michael was making is that there are many who come to TB for its power user features not it's security features. I am one of those. And even while I understand the security issues, there is still a nagging feeling that the lack of built-in offsite image handling is a limitation. Personally, I wouldn't recommend TB to someone who I felt needed to be protected from all the Internet baddies they didn't understand. If they cannot understand the threats, how can they understand TB? Internet 101 before Internet 102. In the same way, I wouldn't recommend a tank to a new driver for protection. Bad analogy? Tank Owning Teen: Gee Dad, why can't I turn right and left smoothly like all my friends who have regular cars? Security Dad: Don't you worry your pretty little head about all that turning right and left nonsense; those vehicles are for dads who are clueless and care not for their childrens' safety. Tank Owning Teen: This owner's manual is from 1902! Security Dad: Documentation is a security risk. -- Best regards, James Senick The Bat! v.3.61.10 Echo (Beta) Windows XP Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Security Dad: Documentation is a security risk. ROFL -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Why do people pay to go up tall buildings and then put money in binoculars to look at things on the ground? pgpRzL3FyCwrQ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif, On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, at 12:13:25 [GMT -0600] (which was 2:13:25 PM in NY, USA) Leif Gregory wrote: Be a part of the solution. 1. When a message comes in that contains outside images it should be checked against a whitelist. snip 2. Do we only accept file references to an actual image and not a page designed to display an image? snip 3. We'd need to tie into the anti-virus snip All these assume that the solution will involve TB deciding what will and what will not be displayed. I think the nice thing about the way TB is now is that I can view the message without risk first, then double-click the attachment afterward. I don't want TB deciding what I can't see anymore than I want OE deciding that I see everything. What about a message pane toggle that is off by default for every message. Once the user confirms that they want to take the risk, the click the toggle. They could also click OK on a warning alert. The resulting message opens in a tab like the TXT, HTML tabs there are now. Moving to another message toggles back to default. A registry hack or ini file edit could exist for those wanting the toggle to default to ON. And they could disable the warning. Usually, the html messages that I need or want are those I have received many times before. Most of them are from me actually. If one were to spoof one of these messages, I would know while viewing it in the default secure mode. -- Best regards, James Senick The Bat! v.3.61.10 Echo (Beta) Windows XP Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi James, On Friday, October 21, 2005, 3:39:40 PM: What about a message pane toggle that is off by default for every message. Once the user confirms that they want to take the risk, the click the toggle. They could also click OK on a warning alert. The resulting message opens in a tab like the TXT, HTML tabs there are now. Moving to another message toggles back to default. That's the idea we are talking about. At least that's what I want. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Bücher haben Ehrgefühl. Wenn man sie verleiht, kommen sie nicht mehr zurück. (Theodor Fontane) pgph2CljcrhIn.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello rmorris, On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:48:42 -0500 GMT (21/10/2005, 11:48 +0700 GMT), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: rrgc If I wanted outlook,opera,firefox,the Becky,pegaus I would have them rrgc as my sole e-mail client. I want THE BAT! to first and foremost to be rrgc secure=sure you give a little up but the piece of mind that comes with rrgc it is awesome!!! Good, then don't activate the requested feature. It won't hurt you if I do. I like TB for its flexibility, not for its nannying. -- Cheers, Thomas. Stossseufzer eines Malers: Schon wieder eine Woche verstrichen! Message reply created with The Bat! 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
OT: Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello James, Friday, October 21, 2005, 7:16:06 AM, you wrote: Personally, I wouldn't recommend TB to someone who I felt needed to be protected from all the Internet baddies they didn't understand. If they cannot understand the threats, how can they understand TB? Internet 101 before Internet 102. Really? So you'd advocate the use of Outlook or Outlook Express because it's easy? Wow... In the same way, I wouldn't recommend a tank to a new driver for protection. Bad analogy? I got to shoot at a tank once during M-79 (40mm grenade launcher) qualifications. Nothing like seeing an HE (High Explosive) round go off on the top of a tank. grin http://www.diddybop.demon.co.uk/blooper.htm Tank Owning Teen: Gee Dad, why can't I turn right and left smoothly like all my friends who have regular cars? Turn? You don't turn in a tank. You run everything over! grin Security Dad: Documentation is a security risk. Egads! Security through obscurity is no security at all. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up,\myou get a lot of scum on top. - Edward Abbey Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/21/2005 10:03 AM Hi James, On 10/21/2005 James Senick wrote: JS If 99% of the world JS didn't use crap like OE, perhaps those companies would learn to JS write. How true! People live up to what is expected. Quality improves when the bar is raised...not lowered. I appreciate your input. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/21/2005 10:10 AM Hi James, On 10/21/2005 James Senick wrote: JS What about a message pane toggle that is off by default for JS every message. Once the user confirms that they want to take the JS risk, the click the toggle. They could also click OK on a JS warning alert. The resulting message opens in a tab like the JS TXT, HTML tabs there are now. Moving to another message toggles JS back to default. You can have this feature right now: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/E-mail/E-mail-Clients/Foxmail.shtml -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
10/21/2005 10:06 AM Hi rmorris, On 10/21/2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: rrgc If I wanted outlook,opera,firefox,the Becky,pegaus I would have them rrgc as my sole e-mail client. I want THE BAT! to first and foremost to be rrgc secure=sure you give a little up but the piece of mind that comes with rrgc it is awesome!!! Amen! -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, On Friday, October 21, 2005, 4:14:42 PM: What about the other features of TheBat! ? To show how silly your way of arguing is: You can have this feature right now: Yeah. You can have the feature of a perfect and secure eMailClient. Just like you want it - right out of the 80s. Try pine. you see? Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Wer nicht mehr liebt, und nicht mehr irrt, der lasse sich begraben. (Goehte) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgp6DCMtb0RCK.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul, http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/E-mail/E-mail-Clients/Foxmail.shtml Interesting to see the bottom of that page (MOST POPULAR DOWNLOADS IN THIS CATEGORY ( E-mail Clients )), where TB is third just behind OE and Thunderbird, both of them freeware :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello James, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:05:50 PM, you wrote: Actually, IIRC, it was only the fear of it making TB insecure that got the feature shot down. I recall the final conclusion being that there was no danger. Not the same case here, however. It was that users had to rely on people like me to ensure that the server wasn't compromised and serving up things that were not rogues or emoticons. While some people on this list would put their trust in me to ensure that my server remained secure, others would not. I think the true issue for the pro side is that they have a use for offsite images being displayed and feel they don't need to be protected by what amounts to annoyances. Imagine if TB simply blocked all attachments from being opened directly...one just has to jump through a few hoops to get screwed. Same here. It does (well, not all). Ever tried to open a .PIF or .SCR or .EXE directly from within TB? You have to save it first, then open it from that location. Just remember that even with proof of security the roguemoticon feature failed to make the cut. There wasn't proof of security. The weak link was my server and if it would serve up automatic downloads that were not roguemoticons or smileys. One last note, after wanting this feature for several years I've found that very few of the images in html email added much to the message content. If they did, I was already on my way to the site anyway. One of the few exceptions to this are those html emails that are all one spliced image. If 99% of the world didn't use crap like OE, perhaps those companies would learn to write. True enough. I can't think of one single HTML e-mail I've received where images actually enhanced the information content. Let me restate that... An HTML e-mail that was properly authored. I get HTML e-mail all the time from my bank, PHP Classes, the CDC etc. The images comprise of their logo, and advertisements. The latter I can do without, especially the webbugs. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Leif, On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, at 08:11:12 [GMT -0600] (which was 10:11:12 AM in NY, USA) Leif Gregory wrote: Friday, October 21, 2005, 7:16:06 AM, you wrote: Personally, I wouldn't recommend TB to someone who I felt needed to be protected from all the Internet baddies they didn't understand. If they cannot understand the threats, how can they understand TB? Internet 101 before Internet 102. Really? So you'd advocate the use of Outlook or Outlook Express because it's easy? Wow... Not at all. I just recommend that people learn a bit about what they're doing. Basically I suggest that people learn basic math before using a calculator. But people listen to marketing first. I only make suggestions when people are ready to listen. That's why I'm broke :) In the same way, I wouldn't recommend a tank to a new driver for protection. Bad analogy? I got to shoot at a tank once during M-79 (40mm grenade launcher) qualifications. Nothing like seeing an HE (High Explosive) round go off on the top of a tank. grin Me too but only with those rounds that went with a poof of purple smoke. The live rounds were a...umm, security risk. :) -- Best regards, James Senick The Bat! v.3.61.10 Echo (Beta) Windows XP Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Offsite Images)
Hello Paul, Friday, October 21, 2005, 8:06:05 AM, you wrote: How true! People live up to what is expected. Quality improves when the bar is raised...not lowered. I appreciate your input. I'm deadhorsing the issue, and the reason I chose Paul for the mod message is because he's on my side so the opposition won't feel like I'm deadhorsing them because I don't want to hear their comments. We'll all just have to agree to disagree and see what RITLabs decides to do with it because regardless of how loudly we each howl, they'll have the final say. This deadhorse applies to the entire Offsite Images threads. We can take it to TBOT though. moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Paul. ' This topic has gone way off / too long / too heated and I am forced to pronounce it dead in fairness to the purpose and other members of the list. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. For anyone unfamiliar with Dead Horse policy, DEAD means DEAD. NO REPLIES to the list, only off-list or on TBOT. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org I don't have a solution but I admire the problem. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/21/2005 10:47 AM Hi Michael, On 10/21/2005 Michael Schneider wrote: MS you see? I do seeI'm not sure about you... -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul, On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, at 10:14:42 [GMT -0400] (which was 10:14:42 AM in NY, USA) Paul Van Noord wrote: JS The resulting message opens in a tab like the JS TXT, HTML tabs there are now. Moving to another message toggles JS back to default. You can have this feature right now: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/E-mail/E-mail-Clients/Foxmail.shtml Yes, and I DO have it right now. But I don't like to switch to a semi-useless email client for only a handful of emails. I used to try though--forwarding those I wanted to see to Becky. Nevertheless, this isn't a solution. This is an alternative. -- Best regards, James Senick The Bat! v.3.61.10 Echo (Beta) Windows XP Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, Am Friday, October 21, 2005, 4:49:18 PM, schriebst du: I do seeI'm not sure about you... Then you're not sure about yourself. I just used your line of arguments ;) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Filmgesetz 5: Alle Einkaufstüten enthalten mindestens ein Baguette. PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpIMj1lsm6qc.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello MAU! On Friday, October 21, 2005, 9:33 AM, you wrote: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/E-mail/E-mail-Clients/Foxmail.shtml Interesting to see the bottom of that page (MOST POPULAR DOWNLOADS IN THIS CATEGORY ( E-mail Clients )), where TB is third just behind OE and Thunderbird, both of them freeware :) I did notice that, also! The Bat! is still the e-mail client that I unhesitatingly recommend to friends and relatives, as the very best choice of all. It works for basic e-mail right out of the box; and for coping with its many evolving features, there's TBUDL. And TBBETA. And Me, Mary the Wonder Bat-Woman! ;) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Offsite Images)
Hello Leif, A reminder of what Leif Gregory on TBBETA typed on: Friday, October 21, 2005 at 08:47:55 GMT -0600 I'm deadhorsing the issue, Thank you so much! The terms Paint dry and Grass grow were gradually becoming more appealing. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Sebastian Murawski everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 22:25 you (Sebastian Murawski) wrote: I noticed that Thunderbird has a ice feature that I cannot (but would like to) find in TB: When an HTML email is displayed that contains graphics from EXTERNAL locations (i.e. they were not attached to the email), it shows them with the 'broken image' icon and offers a 'Show Images' button in the message header. http://republika.pl/konrad_sz/tb/files/html350_xmp.txt http://republika.pl/konrad_sz/tb/files/html350_wget.txt Author: Konrad Szkudlarczyk Anyone cares to explain what these filters really do? I don't speak regex. :) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I liked the opera very much. Everything but the music. -- Benjamin Britten on Stravinsky's The Rakes's Progress Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Offsite Images)
Hello Leif! On Friday, October 21, 2005, 9:47 AM, you wrote: This deadhorse applies to the entire Offsite Images threads. We can take it to TBOT though. I want to apologize. I replied to MAU's comments on this thread before Comcast offered me your message DeadHorsing the discussion. Just wanted you to know that I didn't deliberately ignore your mod message. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 20:02 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. SH FFS, it's a tool! It is /supposed/ to be convenient! At what price I'll file a new wish this afternoon. Links in messages shouldn't be clickable. I really mean it. They could lead to dangerous websites. This is a serious security threat that TB should not support. Furthermore, the message viewer windows and/or panes should be rendered as graphics, so that text like malicious links can't be copied and pasted to other windows. And the TB screen should under no circumstances be anything else but the frontmost application, and in exclusive fullscreen mode, to avoid people typing the URL they see into another window. The user should need to write down the URL by hand onto a piece of paper, so that he must quit TB and only then can start his web browser to type in the URL manually again. Thinking about it, I'll file another wish. TB should not download messages at all. This is the most secure email client ever. No, wait! It shouldn't even START! Thats much better. If you find irony and sarcasm, you may keep it. :-P -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Time is the random wind that blows down the long corridor, slamming all the doors. -- John D. MacDonald Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/21/2005 11:17 AM Hi Alexander, It is sad to lose my respect for you, especially in this manner. Someday I hope you are afforded the opportunity to work with many people from different cultures in many parts of the world, especially those whose very life is threatened by the insecurity of email communication yet are in a situation where email is their only viable method of communication as other methods are even more insecure. Take Care, Paul === Original Message Below === Received From: Alexander S. Kunz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 20:02 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. SH FFS, it's a tool! It is /supposed/ to be convenient! At what price I'll file a new wish this afternoon. Links in messages shouldn't be clickable. I really mean it. They could lead to dangerous websites. This is a serious security threat that TB should not support. Furthermore, the message viewer windows and/or panes should be rendered as graphics, so that text like malicious links can't be copied and pasted to other windows. And the TB screen should under no circumstances be anything else but the frontmost application, and in exclusive fullscreen mode, to avoid people typing the URL they see into another window. The user should need to write down the URL by hand onto a piece of paper, so that he must quit TB and only then can start his web browser to type in the URL manually again. Thinking about it, I'll file another wish. TB should not download messages at all. This is the most secure email client ever. No, wait! It shouldn't even START! Thats much better. If you find irony and sarcasm, you may keep it. :-P -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Time is the random wind that blows down the long corridor, slamming all the doors. -- John D. MacDonald Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/ Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif Gregory everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 22:30 you (Leif Gregory) wrote: A double-click, two quick clicks and you have the ability to see the HTML message in all its blazing glory. There is no way to show an HTML message in all its blazing glory if such a message contains both inline and remote images, this has been discussed on TBUDL and here. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Our political leaders are unenlightened and corrupt, but with rare exceptions, political leaders have always been unenlightened and corrupt. (Tom Robbins, in Jitterbug Perfume) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
TB should not download messages at all. This function is already there; just enable IMAP. This is the most secure email client ever. No, wait! It shouldn't even START! Thats much better. This was a standard feature a while back, they took it out! -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame. pgpWeq0CXws2n.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
It is sad to lose my respect for you, especially in this manner. Someday I hope you are afforded the opportunity to work with many people from different cultures in many parts of the world, especially those whose very life is threatened by the insecurity of email communication yet are in a situation where email is their only viable method of communication as other methods are even more insecure. Fortunately this thread has been DeadHorsed because that kind of comment is /really/ likely to get right up my nose and press my 'raving bloody mad rant' button. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. I don't do drugs. I get the same effect just standing up fast. pgpU84CiFsiGG.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Michael Schneider everyone else, on 21-Okt-2005 at 15:45 you (Michael Schneider) wrote: That's the idea we are talking about. At least that's what I want. If thats the case, don't sign the wish for a whitelist. :) The only way an address based whitelist can be made secure is by the use of pgp or smime signatures, like allow remote images from this address if the message has a signature that verifies as valid/ok. Do we need a new wishlist item for a show me a warning and then show me the remote images button, or does it already exist? :-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I don't mind going nowhere as long as it's an interesting path. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Hendrik Oesterlin everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 23:22 you (Hendrik Oesterlin) wrote: The one who needs remote images displayed can just click on the html attachement and the images are loaded by an application specialised in managing this. For the n-th time: NO! You can view an HTML message ONLY correctly in an external viewer if they do not contain inline images at the same time! -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) It is far harder to kill a phantom that to kill a reality. -- Virginia Woolf Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 21-Okt-2005 at 17:21 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: It is sad to lose my respect for you, especially in this manner. Dito. Someday I hope you are afforded the opportunity to work with many people from different cultures in many parts of the world, especially those whose very life is threatened by the insecurity of email communication yet are in a situation where email is their only viable method of communication as other methods are even more insecure. Especially on mondays. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) The effort to reconcile science and religion is almost always made, not by theologians, but by scientists unable to shake off altogether the piety absorbed with their mother's milk. -- H. L. Mencken Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif Gregory everyone else, on 21-Okt-2005 at 16:43 you (Leif Gregory) wrote: There wasn't proof of security. The weak link was my server and if it would serve up automatic downloads that were not roguemoticons or smileys. Any PGP key server could be compromised to download malware instead of keys, yet TB features a verify key button that could lead you into downloading foreign content to your machine. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I suspect that most of us get old without growing up, and that inside every adult (sometimes not very far inside) is a bratty kid who wants everything his own way. (Bill Watterson) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Offsite Images)
Hello Alexander, Friday, October 21, 2005, 10:12:30 AM, you wrote: Dito. Again, this thread has already been deadhorsed. Take it offline or to TBOT where a thread has already started under the same subject line. moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out Alexander. ' This topic has gone way off / too long / too heated and I am forced to pronounce it dead in fairness to the purpose and other members of the list. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. For anyone unfamiliar with Dead Horse policy, DEAD means DEAD. NO REPLIES to the list, only off-list or on TBOT. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org EMBARASSMENT: Spitting out the car window when it isn't open. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alexander S. Kunz wrote: If thats the case, don't sign the wish for a whitelist. :) Ah, that's splittings hairs :-D Any possibility to view remote images if I want to would be a step forward. Clicking on a button for each message or draging the sender on a whitelist... Michael - -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D Glück ist ein Stuhl, der plötzlich dasteht, wenn man sich zwischen zwei andere setzen will. (George Bernard Shaw) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDWRd0wSeWjeWf1Q0RAp3zAJ9occ8/kw2Ae48Mmy0UAR1s5U/tfQCfRLwf ej15/aHE+p9Ry64JioSYd4U= =fK76 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Mod: DEAD HORSE (was: Offsite Images)
Hello Leif Gregory everyone else, on 21-Okt-2005 at 18:27 you (Leif Gregory) wrote: Dito. Again, this thread has already been deadhorsed. Take it offline or to TBOT where a thread has already started under the same subject line. Please allow a little grace period between modding and re-modding. I saw your MOD message too late. Besides that, I'm not on TBOT. Sorry. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) The struggle for knowledge has a pleasure in it like that of wrestling with a fine woman. -- Lord Halifax Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello TheBat Beta List Members!!! Someday, and that was in Friday evening, Alexander wrote something like this: Author: Konrad Szkudlarczyk Anyone cares to explain what these filters really do? I don't speak regex. :) I think that you speak German so try to read this: http://www.batboard.net/index.php?showtopic=4974 -- Thanks and best regards, Sebastian Murawski Current beta is 3.61.14 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Alexander S. Kunz wrote on 22/10/2005 at 03:08:40 +1100 subject Offsite Images : Hello Hendrik Oesterlin everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 23:22 you (Hendrik Oesterlin) wrote: The one who needs remote images displayed can just click on the html attachement and the images are loaded by an application specialised in managing this. For the n-th time: NO! You can view an HTML message ONLY correctly in an external viewer if they do not contain inline images at the same time! I have explained this already in the Bugtracker http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=1780 : Or for displaing both embedded and external images maybe a one-boutton-feature will be useful to export a message to mht-format (same content as eml but other extension) and open it in IExplorer. As discussed in Beta-list around mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Oct.2004 There is really no need to code a new way to display messages with external images. -- Sincerely Hendrik Oesterlin - email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber-IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ 215599852 - MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED] - YIM moimeme666fr - AIM moimeme666fr TheBat! 3.60.07 and Bayes Filter Plugin v2.0.4 on Windows 2000 ___ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de Current beta is 3.61.14 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Steven, On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:49:35 -0400 GMT (06/10/2005, 20:49 +0700 GMT), Steven P Valliere wrote: SPV I noticed that Thunderbird has a ice feature that I SPV cannot (but would like to) find in TB: When an HTML SPV email is displayed that contains graphics from EXTERNAL SPV locations (i.e. they were not attached to the email), SPV it shows them with the 'broken image' icon and offers SPV a 'Show Images' button in the message header. SPV This is a wonderful and NECESSARY feature. It's a long-standing wish to have the option of downloading pictures (default would be off): http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=1780 Please support it. -- Cheers, Thomas. Top 10 Reasons To Go To Work Naked: 3. Diverts attention from the fact that you also came to work drunk. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Please support it. Done -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. In a democracy your vote counts. In feudalism your Count votes. pgpact9QzuwGq.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Thomas, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 3:00:15 PM: It's a long-standing wish to have the option of downloading pictures (default would be off): http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=1780 Oh ... there were many heated debates on German boards and mailing-lists about this topic. And I got always the same answers: - use another client if you want something like that or - get lost ;) Nice that I'm not the only one who wants this function which is standard in so many other clients ;) Please support it. Done. (why the hell did I never see this bt-entry before?! It's the smell of conspiracy :-DDD ) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Die Jugend von heute liebt den Luxus, hat schlechte Manieren und verachtet die Autorität. Sie widersprechen ihren Eltern, legen die Beine übereinander und tyrannisieren ihre Lehrer. (Sokrates, gr. Philosoph, 470-399 v.Chr.) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpu76oA7AWlr.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Nice that I'm not the only one who wants this function which is standard in so many other clients ;) Please support it. Done. (why the hell did I never see this bt-entry before?! It's the smell of conspiracy :-DDD ) Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... If someone want to die, he/she can click on the HTML and open it in a browser... The Bat! at least earned the title of secure email client. It should not lose this reputation. Because people are stupid. First thing would be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check every offsite picture. And they would blame TB! after that... You said, it is a safe client... For people, who needs to see offsite images: click on the HTML attach... Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Vili, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 3:52:36 PM: Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... Absolutely no argument, regardless how often it is mentioned. There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and opening the image within the eMail-Client. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Für jeden Luxuspuff, den du errichtest, darfst du 'ne Kirche einreißen. (Al Bundy) pgpKuBc7jn3Tf.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:08 AM Hi Vili, On 10/20/2005 Vili wrote: V Hello Michael, Nice that I'm not the only one who wants this function which is standard in so many other clients ;) Please support it. Done. (why the hell did I never see this bt-entry before?! It's the smell of conspiracy :-DDD ) V Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an V email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite V images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite V image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood V you... V If someone want to die, he/she can click on the HTML and open it in V a browser... V The Bat! at least earned the title of secure email client. It should V not lose this reputation. Because people are stupid. First thing would V be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check V every offsite picture. And they would blame TB! after that... You V said, it is a safe client... V For people, who needs to see offsite images: click on the HTML V attach... V Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users V DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. Right on Vili! So true... One of the best compliments there is is for you to hear, I see you are not like all the rest. If I wanted to be like all the rest why would I be here?? -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:13 AM Hi Michael, On 10/20/2005 Michael Schneider wrote: MS There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and MS opening the image within the eMail-Client. There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 4:15:16 PM, schriebst du: There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. As you surely have read, the suggestion is _not_ to activate image downloading globally or as default but to let the user decide. So you see. No difference. Clicking on one button to show the images within the message window or double-click on the html object ... There's your conscious effort. Ok, one difference. I don't have to open a second application just to see the images ;-) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) (Marcy) Mr. Shimokawa. Was führt sie in diese Nacktbar? Ganz ehrlich gesagt, die Nackten. pgpPTe2cqmzK2.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... Absolutely no argument, regardless how often it is mentioned. There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and opening the image within the eMail-Client. I dont argue with this statement. All I am saying is, that blaming IE or blaming TB! DOES make a difference... Short (but true) story from the 60's Hungary: a prisoner (X) was suffering from the brutal warden (Y). He said, he will pay back... So, time came, he (X) was freed. Next time he was caught, the detectives found a mail from the warden saying that we will celebrate the 10th anniversary of the 1956 revolution, prepare. Even mentioning the '56 revolution would have been a big deal... Celebrating? Wow... So, the detectives went for the warden, questioned him. Of course, they found out after a while, it was a big, fat lie, just X made up the story. So, he got some time in an other prison... When the writer (a famous Hungarian writer wrote this documentary book where this story is from) asked me: was it worth it? X said: Definitely. You know, now everybody knows the truth... But in 2-3 years, people will just remember, that the warden had some unfortunate connection with the '56 revolution... He wont get any promotion, believe me... So, the same apply for TB! opening spammer images. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... I don't give a money's, if I want to turn it on, I should be allowed to. If the RL programmers want so badly to protect the stupid then make sure sufficiently dire warnings appear when/if the user decided to change the option from the default 'OFF' setting. If someone want to die, he/she can click on the HTML and open it in a browser... For goodness sake, no one's going to come 'round and and shoot you, nor rob your house, steal your credit card details or ravish your dog. First thing would be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check every offsite picture. I really doubt that. How many people sitting around you now are running Windows with all the default options on? For people, who needs to see offsite images: click on the HTML attach... WTF is the difference between this and having TB! do it except the inconvenience of having having to have other windows popping up? If I can /choose/ to display the message display in IE why can't I /choose/ to have the bloody mail client do it? Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. I don't remember anyone appointing RL as the official net nanny ... -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. You will always be lucky if you know how to make friends with strange cats. pgpb55Dneqm6x.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
So, the same apply for TB! opening spammer images. In the name of the gods ... -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. It's been a rough day. I got up this morning put a shirt on and a button fell off. I picked up my briefcase, and the handle came off. Now I'm afraid to go to the bathroom. pgpuqIPH04E2V.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. And I /regularly and often/ have to make a conscious effort not to swear aloud that the mail software that refuses to let /me/ work the way that I want to. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. The Law of Self Sacrifice: When you starve with a tiger, the tiger starves last. pgpkPTd1VxQ6u.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:46 AM Hi Michael, On 10/20/2005 Michael Schneider wrote: MS As you surely have read, the suggestion is _not_ to activate image MS downloading globally or as default but to let the user decide. Too many users do not understand the ramifications of their choices and opt for the eye-candy because it make them feel good until it causes a problem. Then they call me to bail them out. I have never had to bail a TB user!! MS Ok, one difference. I don't have to open a second application just to MS see the images ;-) Precisely the point, having to open another application provokes thought. I have been a consultant for 17 years dealing with many people over the world. TB is one of my primary tools to protect users from themselves. If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:54 AM Hi Stuart, On 10/20/2005 Stuart Hemming wrote: There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. SH And I /regularly and often/ have to make a conscious effort not to SH swear aloud that the mail software that refuses to let /me/ work the SH way that I want to. You missed the obvious, go elsewhere...quickly! -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 4:52:55 PM, schriebst du: Too many users do not understand the ramifications of their choices and opt for the eye-candy because it make them feel good until it causes a problem. Then they call me to bail them out. I have never had to bail a TB user!! 1) If you earn your money with that. Why don't be lucky? 2) If it's going on the way it is now, there will be no TB!-User who can be bailed out ;) If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. It's always a pleasure to see that there are some people thinking, they can decide how I have to handle things or how things /should/ be for all others ;) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Es ist okay, wenn man alle bösen Menschen durch einen Riesen-Fleischwolf dreht! (NO MA'AM-Gebot Nr. 3) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpTwsXefy7xr.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
- use another client if you want something like that or - get lost Well, if RL don't mind loosing paying customers, I might just do that. It looks like the hard-core does not want the option and all the others can do whatever they like, but won't get what they like in The Bat! For me the feature is about all that's missing, but important enough to decide to go and get lost Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Stuart, First thing would be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check every offsite picture. I really doubt that. How many people sitting around you now are running Windows with all the default options on? None... These guys are IQ 150 and above. I am talking IG 70 and below. (No offense to anyone.) :))) Believe me... I provide support many people. You dont know how large God's zoo is... I could story endlessly... Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. I don't remember anyone appointing RL as the official net nanny ... :))) But they made a choice to make the safest email client. And they are respected for it (bugs and slowing development nowadays, that is an other issue :((( -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
Hello Paul, If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. Well said. Stuart: believe us, we understand you. But believe it or not, this small inconvenience for you save a lot of headache for many, many people, who does not even know, what is the difference between Del and Backspace... :(( I am not talking about me and Paul, who provide support. Many people manages their own computer. Sometimes it is good if someone else tries to protect them from themselves... -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Vili, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 5:33:21 PM: If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. Well said. If it's well said to tell customers to grab their money and take it away to other companies... just because /you/ think in other ways and argue with anchorless arguments? Don't know if this is the right way for Ritlabs. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Peg, wenn du nicht meine Frau wärst, würde ich dich küssen. (Al Bundy) pgpgoAS0StWzJ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. It's always a pleasure to see that there are some people thinking, they can decide how I have to handle things or how things /should/ be for all others ;) Very far example: would you be capable to decide if we have to visit other orbits, or not? I am not capable. So, it is good that some other people think instead of me. Same applies for TB!. Just please believe me: 90% of the users are DUMB for computers like hell... They are not dumb in life. But PC does not fill their life, as fills people's at this list, they are kind people, etc. So, in the PC world, they must be... yes, controlled is the right word... Even if it is not a democratic way. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Vili, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 5:37:32 PM, schreibst du: Same applies for TB!. Just please believe me: 90% of the users are DUMB for computers like hell... They are not dumb in life. But PC does not fill their life, as fills people's at this list, they are kind people, etc. So, in the PC world, they must be... yes, controlled is the right word... Even if it is not a democratic way. John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. John Doe uses PMail, Outlook Express or Thunderbird but really not TheBat!. He would get slayed by the number of possible options and I doubt, that he would get i.e. IMAP working. Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. regards, Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D Ich glaube, ein Mann will von einer Frau das gleiche wie eine Frau von einem Mann: Respekt. (Clint Eastwood) pgp4qUsL2Y8qg.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Vili everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:28 you (Vili) wrote: I dont argue with this statement. All I am saying is, that blaming IE or blaming TB! DOES make a difference... What if I open the message with Opera? Seeking who's to blame on the program side is wrong. The problem is usually about 60cm in front of the screen. The REAL problem is that if a legitimate message contains both embedded and remote images, you can't view the message correctly EITHER WAY. I can see the local images in TB, I can see the remote images in the browser, but I can't have both. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I've been doing the Fonda workout: The Peter Fonda workout. That's where I wake up, take a hit of acid, smoke a joint, and go to my sister's house and ask her for money. -- Kevin Meaney Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:15 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: MS There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and MS opening the image within the eMail-Client. There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. Like clicking on a Show remote images button, and clicking on Yes when the Are you really sure security warning pops up. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Time wounds all heels. -- Groucho Marx Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 11:53 AM Hi Alexander, On 10/20/2005 Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, ASK on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:15 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: MS There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and MS opening the image within the eMail-Client. There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. ASK Like clicking on a Show remote images button, and clicking on Yes when ASK the Are you really sure security warning pops up. I have seen way too many people never read a warning and just click for what they want. You have to experience it to believe it. They do pay more attention if another application opens. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 11:55 AM Hi Alexander, On 10/20/2005 Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Hello Vili everyone else, ASK on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:28 you (Vili) wrote: I dont argue with this statement. All I am saying is, that blaming IE or blaming TB! DOES make a difference... ASK What if I open the message with Opera? Seeking who's to blame on the ASK program side is wrong. The problem is usually about 60cm in front of the ASK screen. ASK The REAL problem is that if a legitimate message contains both embedded and ASK remote images, you can't view the message correctly EITHER WAY. I can see ASK the local images in TB, I can see the remote images in the browser, but I ASK can't have both. Isn't this the foolishness of the message creator? Would you want Opera to work like IE? Me neither!! So lets not force TB to be like OE! -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Michael Schneider everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 17:49 you (Michael Schneider) wrote: Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. I am not so sure about that. A lot of newbie question are posted on TBUDL. If you think your grandma can't handle TB, it will be like that. If you just go and tell her use this, it'll probably work. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Mencken's Metalaw: For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Alexander, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:00:01 PM, schriebst du: I am not so sure about that. A lot of newbie question are posted on TBUDL. If you think your grandma can't handle TB, it will be like that. If you just go and tell her use this, it'll probably work. Well if a normal user got to TheBat! from someone who is used to it and got it installed and configured by this person, it's up to this person to assure the client is working securely. IMHO But we are going in circles if you ask me. regards, Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Die Musik drückt das aus, was nicht gesagt werden kann und worüber zu schweigen unmöglich ist. (Victor Hugo) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpPyKM73RpFk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:37:19 AM, you wrote: If it's well said to tell customers to grab their money and take it away to other companies... just because /you/ think in other ways and argue with anchorless arguments? Don't know if this is the right way for Ritlabs. That's a decision RITLabs alone will have to make. In the short term, will it garner them some customers that they wouldn't have had otherwise? Possibly / Probably. In the long term can TB as the Secure E-mail Client afford to be lumped into the Outlook and Outlook Express category because it is now insecure due to the lack of user competence. I can relate first hand and know probably better than anyone on this list the feeling of wanting something included in TB but not having it due to RITLabs deciding to not implement. I worked very closely with 9val to build out the automatic downloading of roguemoticons and smileys. It was my baby, my project. I spent a great deal of time and energy building out the databases, the website, and promoting it on the lists to get people to use it. However, it was shot at by members of the list as making TB insecure, and RITLabs listened and shut that functionality down. After all the time and energy I put into it. But you know what? They were right to do it. It *did* make TB insecure. I thank the members of the list for bringing to light the vulnerability I was convincing RITLabs to put into their client, and I thank RITLabs for having the guts to stand by their guns and tell me 'No' for the greater good of the security and community that TB has built. If you want insecurity, there are many retarded e-mail clients out there that will give you what you want. Leave at least one e-mail client to those of us who appreciate the fact that RITLabs is doing the right thing and believe in making the internet safer despite the multitudes of clueless who get themselves infected, wormed, trojaned, spywared, and spammed and then blame it on the software because they don't know what they're doing. There are people on this list who live, eat, and breathe network, computer and software security. Listen to them. Some of us have been doing it for a very long time and might actually know what we're talking about. You yourself might be savvy enough to have inherent security holes in TB and know what to do to mitigate them. But for every one of you, there are ten who do not, and not many of them are going to blame their own stupidity when they get exploited. They'll blame TB, they'll post on message boards about how TB let them get infected, and how TB is a bad e-mail client. Can RITLabs afford to do that? I doubt it. We (the security minded people) are only asking for one secure e-mail client that has the power-user features we want. Just one. That's it. Let us have TB. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Avoid temptation ... Unless you can't resist!! Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 17:57 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: ASK The REAL problem is that if a legitimate message contains both ASK embedded and remote images, you can't view the message correctly ASK EITHER WAY. I can see the local images in TB, I can see the remote ASK images in the browser, but I can't have both. Isn't this the foolishness of the message creator? You can't change the world overnight. But you can adapt to the average stupidity of your fellow men. ;) Like, by having an *optional* function in a program to address that tiny little problem. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:49:40 AM, you wrote: John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. Mary isn't the only one. There are quite a few (see TBUDL). And the lists only represent a small fraction of the population using TB. Mary has come a long way since then. She's even a valuable asset to the community as far as I'm concerned, but when she first started using TB, she was *not* an experienced user. Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. See above. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Vili, A reminder of what Vili on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 09:52:36 GMT -0400 Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... He's talking about attached images, not links to images. For example if I send you a photo of my new born salt water alligator the image should appear in line about here like most other clients do it. Rather than having to save it first or use a separate image viewer. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:10:02 PM, schriebst du: That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. Mary isn't the only one. There are quite a few (see TBUDL). And the lists only represent a small fraction of the population using TB. Mary has come a long way since then. She's even a valuable asset to the community as far as I'm concerned, but when she first started using TB, she was *not* an experienced user. Go to a John Doe userboard on the internet and ask them about the eMail-Clients they know. If 5% answer TheBat! it would be great. Believe me. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Bisexualität verdoppelt Deine Chancen auf ein Samstagabend-Rendezvous. (Woody Allen) pgp3cKl1jDzNz.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 17:55 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: ASK Like clicking on a Show remote images button, and clicking on Yes ASK when the Are you really sure security warning pops up. I have seen way too many people never read a warning and just click for what they want. You have to experience it to believe it. They do pay more attention if another application opens. We could talk Ritlabs into making the warning message blinking in purple and blue, with white rabbits jumping all over the screen. Discussing this is turning in circles. The feature will come, I have no doubt about it. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, thunderbird has to be most insecure eMail-Client on the world if someone is reading your message. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Neues in Sachen Virenschutz: Das Festplattenkondom! pgpLaCKFI8P9u.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
Hello Paul, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:55:45 AM, you wrote: I have seen way too many people never read a warning and just click for what they want. You have to experience it to believe it. They do pay more attention if another application opens. Yeah, five years as a network administrator over a userbase of 3,000 has proven to me time and time again that no matter how much security I stick in front of them in terms of patches, firewalls, IDS, proxy servers, anti-virus, Altiris, and Websense, they still manage to figure out how to get themselves infected or spywared. They just don't care about the message in front of them, they just click 'OK' to get the dang little box out of their way. We even held user education classes but it doesn't work. It's just one more interruption in their day that's going to waste 30 min to an hour of their time. You know why most corporate users don't care about security? Because they know IT will come and fix their computer after they've thrashed it. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org All things in moderation, including Moderation! Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 11:12:06 AM, Tony Boom wrote: He's talking about attached images, not links to images. For example if I send you a photo of my new born salt water alligator the image should appear in line about here like most other clients do it. Rather than having to save it first or use a separate image viewer. don't know due to what settings, but images show up here as a separate tab. just click on the tab, and there is the image. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Stuart, A reminder of what Stuart Hemming on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 15:47:27 GMT +0100 I don't give a money's, if I want to turn it on, I should be allowed to. Forgive me for correcting you but it's Monkeys. As in I don't give a monkeys Uncle but then I think it may just be a blood group. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
You missed the obvious, go elsewhere...quickly! But I've paid for this. I want it to work sensibly. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Never lick a steak knife. pgpU0AA8MNfPl.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. FFS, it's a tool! It is /supposed/ to be convenient! -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Esplanade (v.), to attempt an explanation while drunk. pgpqbzZ83pnAk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:13:39 AM, you wrote: Go to a John Doe userboard on the internet and ask them about the eMail-Clients they know. If 5% answer TheBat! it would be great. So let's say we've got even less... How about .05% of the internet population (900 million or so) that tries TB. That's about 45,000 people. Let's say 95% of them are experienced users which leaves us with 2,250 of the clueless. I'm giving you the most benefit of the doubt here. I'm basically saying that out of 900 million or so internet users *only* 45,000 of them would install TB. Then again, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying that 95% of them are experienced enough and understand internet protocol and security enough to not open themselves up to a security hole. This leaves us with 2,250 who would. Tell you what... Do some reading on why the internet as a whole is considered a huge security sieve. You'll find the common denominator is that the internet was designed to be open. Security was an afterthought. RITLabs is building from the ground up with security as the forethought. I applaud them for it, and even though TB does have deficiencies in certain areas (IMAP), I will always be a loyal customer to RITLabs because they aren't writing just another piece of software to further the security nightmare that the internet is. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org You know you're getting old when you stop to tie your shoes and wonder what else you can do while you're down there. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:06:07 AM, you wrote: Well if a normal user got to TheBat! from someone who is used to it and got it installed and configured by this person, it's up to this person to assure the client is working securely. IMHO So by promoting a secure client to people *because* we want not only want to help them be secure but to give them the tools to be secure, we are now indentured to their service for the remainder of our lives? Through every new release and patch, through every newly added piece of functionality? You've got to be joking. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Cheap, Fast, Reliable -- pick two. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:14:05 AM, you wrote: thunderbird has to be most insecure eMail-Client on the world if someone is reading your message. Ummm, because it was plain-text, because I didn't href any images, because Thunderbird performs the most basic functionality of an e-mail client which is to display my plaintext e-mail per RFC-822 You've lost me. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Shocked actors: cast aghast Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Dwight, A reminder of what Dwight A Corrin on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 11:29:44 GMT -0500 don't know due to what settings, but images show up here as a separate tab. just click on the tab, and there is the image. Exactly the opposite of what I'd like to happen. My Brother often sends me photo's with little comments and descriptions under each one. The whole context is completely lost when one has to keep switching tabs and trying to relate each comment to tab1. tab3 or tab4 etc. It's like having a newspaper or magazine consisting of 100% text with a separate booklet containing the photo's and having to match the photo to the article without the photo booklet containing any textual reference. I just don't see the advantage of displaying images in tab as opposed to in line. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:43:39 PM, schriebst du: thunderbird has to be most insecure eMail-Client on the world if someone is reading your message. Ummm, because it was plain-text, because I didn't href any images, because Thunderbird performs the most basic functionality of an e-mail client which is to display my plaintext e-mail per RFC-822 No, because it displays remote images if I want it. You must have missunderstood me (perhaps I tried to translate a german phrase 1:1 in english) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Es kann passieren was will: Es gibt immer einen, der es kommen sah. (Marcel Pagnol) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpJPdYeZ7O8T.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif! On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 11:10 AM, you wrote: John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. This wasn't true for me. I was pointed to The Bat! from a mailing list that consisted chiefly of users of Outlook Express. I wanted to be able to look at my mail's senders on the server before downloading it. I had no vocabulary for that--like headers and server--but KlezH had just destroyed my sister's machine. So, I'd found MailWasher. But MailWasher with Outlook Express had a lag--by the time I had okayed the messages I wished to receive, sometimes there were more that I hadn't looked at and they came into Outlook Express without my having a chance to say yes or no. At Rootsweb's Anti-Virus Discussion List I got lucky. Two computer professionals who'd just acquired The Bat! were moderating the list. And they encouraged me to try it. The Mail Dispatcher is the reason why I will always stay with The Bat! The MicroEd is the icing on the cake for me. All the rest, I just stick around here testing because I've come to love the community of people on the TB! mailing lists. That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. ... For very little read no knowledge. I barely knew how to use my computer and the OS Win95. ... Mary isn't the only one. There are quite a few (see TBUDL). And the lists only represent a small fraction of the population using TB. ... I fully agree with this point. ... Mary has come a long way since then. ... But I still learn something new every day here. ... She's even a valuable asset to the community as far as I'm concerned, but when she first started using TB, she was *not* an experienced user. Thanks for the kind words, Leif. It is true. I was not an experienced user of computers that could access the Internet. And I didn't do a systematic search for a safer e-mail client. (For a long, long time after I joined these lists I would puzzle to myself about what a client was in this context and what the initials MUA meant.) I was just lucky enough to run into Anne and Barry Morgan at a time that I was truly panicked about the vulnerabilities in Outlook Express, especially the preview pane which had let KlezH, and a worm that piggybacked in on it, onto my sister's machine. Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. Not true. Or at least, not true for many users of The Bat!, like me. See above. Indeed. :thumbup: -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, it's nice that you want to teach me. Really. But I don't need new teachers or preachers for the one and only religion. There are more than enough evangelists out there. There are more than enough wars out there about what OS is the best or about which office suite. I don't need another war about which eMail client and I don't need You to tell me what others should do and what not. I just need an eMail client which gives me the free choice how to handle on my own things because it's my decision. I can run daily work as root if I like to. I should not do it, but I can if I think I have to. I can lock up my home when I'm leaving or I can leave it just closed but not locked. Also I'm able to turn off every security option in my webbrowser and allow every site everything if I'm happy with it. It's _my_ decision - not _yours_. Configure /your/ email-client like you want to and let others do it /their/ way. Even experienced users (for myself I'm on the net for about 9 years now and I'm on my Master of Information Technology in Management) demand the mentioned feature if you see. If you don't want it. It's ok. Don't use it. Turn it off. But don't begin to evangelise others with your point of view. No offence but I'm tired of listening to self-proclaimed evangelists who want me to do like they're thinking the world would be better. I have been working for nearly 8 years with OS/2, I was happy and my system was rock solid. But the same old sayings over and over again. Very annoying. Now I'm using Windows for business and software development because customers want to run the software on Windows machines. Now I have to read daily some guys who want to change over to linux - regardless if I need Windows for my work or not. Or they want to tell me that I need another IDE or whatever. I can assure you: I know perfectly what is good for me. What I need. How I have to handle things. And if there are 2250 people who can not decide which eMail they can trust - it's neither my fault nor my problem. You would have to turn the whole Internet off to save them from themselves. Even if you code them an email-client that can just display 7bit-encoded emails in a shell without any possibility of clicking on links, opening attachments or whatever. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Der Mann trägt die Jahre in den Knochen, die Frau im Gesicht. pgpEkgSPXuecI.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:58:34 AM, you wrote: No, because it displays remote images if I want it. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html#Thunderbird Specifically... http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/mfsa2005-11.html You must have missunderstood me (perhaps I tried to translate a german phrase 1:1 in english) No problem! grin Don't forget I'm a natural blonde too! :-) -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Some of my bestest friends are tagline addicts. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, On October 20, 2005, 7:21:56 PM: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vulnerabilities.html#Thunderbird These are bugs. Bugs can always happen. And these are *fixed* bugs. As I told in my other mail, if you want to hunt all *possible* security holes down, you have to shut down the internet at once. http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/mfsa2005-11.html Bug in the prerelease versions which was fixed in the final release if I got the site right? Nothing to complain for me. Ok, assigned to Ritlabs that would not be welcome thinking about their view of final release or bugfixing :- No problem! grin Don't forget I'm a natural blonde too! :-) Ah, we have at least one thing in common :-D Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Wie klingelt ein Affe? King Kong! pgprVTbcxrNgk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. Well said. If it's well said to tell customers to grab their money and take it away to other companies... just because /you/ think in other ways and argue with anchorless arguments? I reflected to: Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. Sorry, unfortunate quoting... -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. No. I sold it to even pharma companies where they have users who does not read, does not think, just click... -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Michael Schneider wrote: because Thunderbird performs the most basic functionality of an e-mail client which is to display my plaintext e-mail per RFC-822 No, because it displays remote images if I want it. Yes, and my car can go up on the sidewalk if I want it. Not the cars fault, just the loose nut behind the wheel. Allowing images to be viewed in TheBat! makes TB! no less secure. Again, it is the loose nut behind the keyboard. Using your methodology of protecting the user, every web browser should not display ads, images, links etc, etc because they may be harmful to the uneducated. My primary e-mail client is now Thunderbird, why?, one reason is because it allows me the option to view images (that and ^%$# IMAP). I have banking institutions and businesses that send e-mail and statements in HTML with images that provide information. This is the way they do business, most do not have a plain text option or multi-part capability. I am able to white list these using the address book. This does not make the client less secure. I make the choice to allow/disallow images, not Thunderbird and not Mozilla. Same with TheBat!, if some yo-yo allows the wrong images and gets trashed, that is not TB! or RIT's fault, it is the loose nut behind the keyboard, once burned twice shy. Heck, right now I can receive a SPAM e-mail in TB! and click away on all the links in it, doing probably more damage than viewing images in another more docile e-mail. Maybe we should lock down URL's too, and while we're at it let's just strip that potentially nasty HTML crap right out of TB! and lean it up a bit. -- Mike Rourke Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Mike, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 7:49:01 PM: Yes, and my car can go up on the sidewalk if I want it. Not the cars fault, just the loose nut behind the wheel. Allowing images to be viewed in TheBat! makes TB! no less secure. Again, it is the loose nut behind the keyboard. That's the right point and everything I ever wrote :) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Humor ist der Knopf, der verhindert, dass uns der Kragen platzt. (Joachim Ringelnatz, 1883-1934) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpMdO1WxIB8Z.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Tony, don't know due to what settings, but images show up here as a separate tab. just click on the tab, and there is the image. Exactly the opposite of what I'd like to happen. My Brother often sends me photo's with little comments and descriptions under each one. The whole context is completely lost when one has to keep switching tabs and trying to relate each comment to tab1. tab3 or tab4 etc. I dont get it... If he sent an HTML mail, open as HTML (click on the HTML tab down) and you will see as HTML mail... with pictures embedded. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Tony, Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... He's talking about attached images, not links to images. For example if I send you a photo of my new born salt water alligator the image should appear in line about here like most other clients do it. Rather than having to save it first or use a separate image viewer. If the photo is embedded in an HTML mail, by clicking the HTML tab at the bottom of the mail will show the HTML version of the mail, with the embedded pics. Or what we are talking about now?? -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Tony, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:45:00 AM, you wrote: Exactly the opposite of what I'd like to happen. My Brother often sends me photo's with little comments and descriptions under each one. What am I missing...I get e-mails like this also and they work fine. I get a message with three tabs HTML, Text, and XXX.jpg. If I chose the HTML tab I get the message with the pictures imbedded with the little comments and descriptions. -- Thanks, Terry Using the Bat! 3.51.10 under Windows XP Service Pack 2 2600 pgpJfg7oQTZZc.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 2:05 PM Hi Tony, On 10/20/2005 Tony Boom wrote: TB My Brother often sends me TB photo's with little comments and descriptions under each one. The whole TB context is completely lost when one has to keep switching tabs and trying to TB relate each comment to tab1. tab3 or tab4 etc. Teach your brother how to rename files. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 2:02 PM Hi Stuart, On 10/20/2005 Stuart Hemming wrote: Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. SH FFS, it's a tool! It is /supposed/ to be convenient! At what price -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 1:59 PM Hi Stuart, On 10/20/2005 Stuart Hemming wrote: You missed the obvious, go elsewhere...quickly! SH But I've paid for this. I want it to work sensibly. Remaining alert and diligently testing features during the free trial period is a great attribute. It was sold as the Secure E-mail Client. That says something to me. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 11:13:25 AM, you wrote: And if there are 2250 people who can not decide which eMail they can trust - it's neither my fault nor my problem. You would have to turn the whole Internet off to save them from themselves. Even if you code them an email-client that can just display 7bit-encoded emails in a shell without any possibility of clicking on links, opening attachments or whatever. I'm very disheartened to hear that you care so very little for your fellow man. That's part of the problem with the world today. Nobody cares, it's never anyone's fault, and it's always someone else's problem. We all know warnings don't do squat. People just ignore them. So.. Let's take this thread in a new direction. Instead of trying to convince each other that it's good or bad, let's come up with a way to implement it where it would be safe. At least it would get us back on-topic. Be a part of the solution. You say you have many years of IT background and are working on your Masters degree. Make TB better, apply your knowledge to implementing the feature safely. I'll even start it off. 1. When a message comes in that contains outside images it should be checked against a whitelist. a. How is that whitelist enabled - Should not be based on sender address (spoofing) - Should be based on website url a. if based on url, to which part? - base domain won't work for shared servers i.e. http://www.pcwize.com/~dave so we need to go deeper to ensure integrity that http://www.pcwize.com/~bill can't do bad things. - If we go too deep, then the whitelist is not effective. i.e. http://www.pcwize.com/geocaching/images could be whitelisted, but what about http://www.pcwize.com/galleries/images? If we trust www.pcwize.com explicitly then we'd have to whitelist all the urls we expect images from. 2. Do we only accept file references to an actual image and not a page designed to display an image? See below: - How do we ensure the integrity of the referenced script? If http://www.pcwize.com/image.php?myDog has been compromised to what extent can that compromise be mitigated on our end? a. Verify binary header of the returned file to ensure it is a JPG, PNG, GIF, BMP etc. b. Will not display anything not meeting above criteria. c. Warn the user that the received data was not what was expected and give them no option to override the protection to attempt to display it anyway. 3. We'd need to tie into the anti-virus to ensure that even though the received data is an actual image, it doesn't contain an exploit: http://antivirus.about.com/od/securitytips/a/jpgflaw.htm Hmmm. Ran out of time. That's a start, you can work on finishing it. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org I went to a general store. They wouldn't let me buy anything specific. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, On October 20, 2005, 8:01:48 PM: It was sold as the Secure E-mail Client. That says something to me. It says it's secure because nothing else than pop3-fetch and smtp-send works. *SCNR* ;-))) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Wir haben das Problem eingekreist: INTEL INSIDE! PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgp1rfbFKu3eZ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Vili, A reminder of what Vili on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 14:04:11 GMT -0400 Or what we are talking about now?? I don't bloody know. Started off with in line images then remote images now html. I think I'll go back to celluloid, paper, chemicals and red lights. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
