Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello MAU. --On 15 June 2005 01:33 +0200 you wrote about Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): Can you or anybody explain what happened here? Don't look at me, it's nothing to do with me this time. I have to admit to sporting a wry, almost smug smile though when I see you quote the headers :) -- Tony. M pgpbuIAQfmLmC.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hallo MAU, On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:33:20 +0200GMT (15-6-2005, 1:33 +0200, where I live), you wrote: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goncalo Farias tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] M Your In-Reply-To: and References: headers do not include Goncalo's MID M [EMAIL PROTECTED] to which you replied. M Instead, they reference MID M [EMAIL PROTECTED] M which I can't find in my TBBeta folder or in my whole message base. Check Xav's other messages to this list, they all suffer from the same symptom. All his replies include an In-Reply-To: header that refers to a message-id like this: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the last part is his own domain. When I'm doing an mx-query for glenmere.com, the receiving mail servers are listed as relay1.netnames.net and relay2.netnames.net Netnames is a domain registrar, my guess is that they offer the option to let all of the mail sent to your domain can be forwarded to another address. And instead of sending the message with an unchanged message-id they replace it with a new one. Clearly a broken setup, but I don't know whether Xav can change that as I don't know whether the message-id stripping is configurable. As a side note I suppose that at Xav's only his own replies are threaded correctly. M However, the References: header correctly includes the MID of my message M that started this thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]. That's because only the message-id is substituted, not the rest of the headers. M Can you or anybody explain what happened here? I hope this suffices. Of course I could be wrong with blaming Netnames and Xav could run some tool by himself that is stripping/replacing message-id's. -- Groetjes, Roelof A noisy exhaust to some almost amounts to a mating call. The Bat! 3.5.26 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 accounts, server on LAN pgpc063WFlAtz.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello MAU, Wednesday, June 15, 2005, 12:33:20 AM, you wrote: Hello Xav, Your message was not threaded properly and trying to understand why I looked at your headers and found: X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.0.17) Professional Just curious, why are you still using v3.5.0.17? Upgraded on my laptop but have been busy with a lot of other things and probably forgot on the main PC :-)) Although I think a later beta screwed up here and so I down-graded. Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goncalo Farias tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your In-Reply-To: and References: headers do not include Goncalo's MID [EMAIL PROTECTED] to which you replied. Instead, they reference MID [EMAIL PROTECTED] which I can't find in my TBBeta folder or in my whole message base. However, the References: header correctly includes the MID of my message that started this thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Can you or anybody explain what happened here? Hmmm, probably my perverse set-up :-)) I use email forwarding from a domain registration service, which comes in to an email server on a dedicated PC, which sorts the mail into particular accounts. I was/am using PMMail and this was the only way I could easily get mail for (whichever user)at glenmere.com into the approprate account mailbox. i.e. PMMail could only filter to folders in one account, not to separate accounts. -- Best regards, Xav Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Xav. --On 15 June 2005 10:01 +0100 you wrote about Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): Hmmm, probably my perverse set-up :-)) If it's any consolation Xav, your messages thread perfectly here, no problem at all. -- Tony. M pgpE9DmxqrTJO.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Tony, Can you or anybody explain what happened here? Don't look at me, it's nothing to do with me this time. I know, don't worry. In any case, I am not complaining about bad or no threading. When I spotted it, my first thought was that TB itself could be the culprit and that lead me to looking at headers in detail. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Xav, Can you or anybody explain what happened here? Hmmm, probably my perverse set-up :-)) I use email forwarding from a domain registration service, which comes in to an email server on a dedicated PC, which sorts the mail into particular accounts. Yes, that could explain it. Roelof's reply also help me understand what is happening. If I wanted to clarify what was the cause was to discard any possible problem in TB. Thanks. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Roelof, Check Xav's other messages to this list, they all suffer from the same symptom. All his replies include an In-Reply-To: header that refers to a message-id like this: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the last part is his own domain. snipped I hope this suffices. Of course I could be wrong with blaming Netnames and Xav could run some tool by himself that is stripping/replacing message-id's. It certainly does and seems like a reasonable explanation, thanks. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Tony, Hmmm, probably my perverse set-up :-)) If it's any consolation Xav, your messages thread perfectly here, no problem at all. Is this so? I wonder what Mulberry is doing for threading. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hi MAU, On 15/6/2005 12:19 PM +0200, you wrote: Is this so? I wonder what Mulberry is doing for threading. For Tony, it would be the FastMail servers doing the threading and Mulberry simply displaying it. On looking here, it seems that the threading is done by references and subject. -- Allie Martin System specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- It is not only fine feathers that make fine birds. Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Allie, Is this so? I wonder what Mulberry is doing for threading. For Tony, it would be the FastMail servers doing the threading and Mulberry simply displaying it. I see, I didn't think threading was done at the server. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Allie. --On 15 June 2005 05:33 -0500 you wrote about Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): For Tony, it would be the FastMail servers doing the threading and Mulberry simply displaying it. Surely not, how does that work server side then? I do use server side filtering to filter into the respective folders but sure threading and the way they're displayed in list form here is Berry end? -- Tony. M pgpIS5e1b3ETe.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello MAU. --On 15 June 2005 12:18 +0200 you wrote about Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): If I wanted to clarify what was the cause was to discard any possible problem in TB. Personally I think it is a problem with TB. Any threading trouble I had, or should I say you had, was only evident to people using TB. Mulberry, Thunderbird and Kmail didn't suffer such trauma :) And lets face it, having 1 or 2 non threaded messages can be a very traumatic experience for some :) -- Tony. M pgpb2GoYoCEWJ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hi Tony, On 15/6/2005 12:06 PM +0100, you wrote: I almost wrote this off-list, but then I thought I'd mention it here anyway since this is where I'd love to see TB! IMAP go eventually. I do use server side filtering to filter into the respective folders but sure threading and the way they're displayed in list form here is Berry end? Some IMAP servers, Cyrus IMAP included, offer a feature called server side threading. Mulberry will use server side threading if the server supports it. This is one of the reasons why I'm enjoying FastMail IMAP so much. The server side threading is immediately evident to me when on opening the mailbox, Mulberry simply displays the threading. I get no prompt about whether or not I wish to thread only the currently displayed messages or to thread all messages in the mailbox. I used to get that prompt while using MDaemon IMAP. When I hit one of the options, Mulberry downloads more message information and then threads. If I do a full mailbox threading, Mulberry downloads quite a lot of message information before it finally does the threading. With FastMail, I never see the prompt and the threaded view is displayed as quickly as the unthreaded view. This is all part and parcel of Mulberry's efficient methods of displaying messages lists. -- Allie Martin System specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Simon says: don't be so suggestible. Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
--On 15/06/2005 12:58 +0200 MAU wrote: I see, I didn't think threading was done at the server. It is on some servers. Here's what FastMail is announcing for my account. IMAP4 IMAP4rev1 ACL QUOTA NAMESPACE UIDPLUS ID NO_ATOMIC_RENAME UNSELECT CHILDREN MULTIAPPEND SORT THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES IDLE -- Clive Taylor Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
--On 15/06/2005 12:06 +0100 Tony wrote: Surely not, how does that work server side then? See this message, Tony. mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Clive Taylor Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Allie. --On 15 June 2005 06:15 -0500 you wrote about Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): With FastMail, I never see the prompt and the threaded view is displayed as quickly as the unthreaded view. Same here, exceptionally fast. Let's see if I got this correct. I tell Berry to thread, it tells the Fastmail server I want to thread and turns threading on server side just the same as if I create a box in Berry and it then tells the server and that box is created server end. Am I on the same end of the stick as you? This is all part and parcel of Mulberry's efficient methods of displaying messages lists. Can't argue with that. -- Tony. M pgpGHDNEUYvIi.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Clive. --On 15 June 2005 13:25 +0100 you wrote about Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): See this message, Tony. mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] How? -- Tony. M pgpDBBlVXYCtH.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hi Tony, On 15/6/2005 1:53 PM +0100, you wrote: Same here, exceptionally fast. Let's see if I got this correct. I tell Berry to thread, it tells the Fastmail server I want to thread and turns threading on server side I'm not sure about the actual inner workings of how it's done but it seems to be something like that, yes. just the same as if I create a box in Berry and it then tells the server and that box is created server end. Am I on the same end of the stick as you? Right. When browsing mailboxes via Mulberry, you're actually looking at and browsing what's on the server. On the screen is just a user friendly interface for browsing. The threading takes that further. Mulberry will just display the list that's already threaded server side. However, if the server cannot thread the messages, then Mulberry can. It's just that it would need to retrieve a lot more message related data. So it prompts the user about what to do next. Thread all or just thread what's currently being displayed. -- Allie Martin System specs: http://www.ac-martin.com/sysspecs.htm -=-=- Fraud(n): A telephone number starting with 1-900 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Tony, If I wanted to clarify what was the cause was to discard any possible problem in TB. Personally I think it is a problem with TB. Any threading trouble I had, or should I say you had, was only evident to people using TB. Mulberry, Thunderbird and Kmail didn't suffer such trauma :) It could be that TB is not as flexible as perhaps it should, I don't know. And lets face it, having 1 or 2 non threaded messages can be a very traumatic experience for some :) Although I do prefer that messages thread properly (it makes it easier to follow a conversation), lack of threading is not traumatic for me and I am used t o it in many other mailing lists and even everyday e-mail exchange. If I pay attention it threading in this lists is to identify possible TB problems. If you recall, previous TB versions had threading by Reference or by Subject. The last beta series _changed_ threading by References to by References+Subject with no possibility of threading _only_ by Reference, which I objected to. This was changed again and it is now possible to thread by References, by Subject or by References+Subject, which should satisfy everyone preferences. Because these many changes is why, if I see a not properly threaded message, I take a detailed look to see if it may be due to a bug in TB introduced when making the mentioned changes. That's all. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
--On 15/06/2005 13:53 +0100 Tony wrote: How? Ah, sorry, thought I was using another mailer :0. Here's the message: IMAP4 IMAP4rev1 ACL QUOTA NAMESPACE UIDPLUS ID NO_ATOMIC_RENAME UNSELECT CHILDREN MULTIAPPEND SORT THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES IDLE Right click your inbox in M*l*r*y and you'll see a tabbed dialogue box. Regards -- Clive Taylor Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS)
Hello Clive. --On 15 June 2005 16:15 +0100 you wrote about Re: Wrong threading (Was: Re: Distributed AS IS): Right click your inbox in M*l*r*y and you'll see a tabbed dialogue box. I get... IMAP4 IMAP4rev1 ACL QUOTA NAMESPACE UIDPLUS ID NO_ATOMIC_RENAME UNSELECT CHILDREN MULTIAPPEND SORT THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES IDLE But if I click the date column so that they are in order of arrival it still says THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT, is that correct? I sent this to TBOT as well otherwise I can see it getting a bit wet, slimy and fishy on here :) -- Tony. M pgpZF0yaYS7GW.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
