Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hello TBUDL, I have noticed that when replying to messages sent to me by people using Microsoft Office Outlook my replies aren't threaded. That is, the reply isn't 'attached' to the original replied to message and appears as a separate email in the message list. I sort the 'standard way' which is by references and received time. Has anyone had this experience or similar? I've only just noticed this behaviour lately. It is very annoying I might add. -- Simon (Privateofcourse) #1104. Qualm Dry Wore Sis ¶ TB! 4.0.34 WinXP Pro Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hallo Simon, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:38:08 +0100GMT (12-9-2008, 9:38 +0200, where I live), you wrote: P I have noticed that when replying to messages sent to me by people using P Microsoft Office Outlook my replies aren't threaded. That is, the reply P isn't 'attached' to the original replied to message and appears as a P separate email in the message list. That's because the replies sent to you don't contain a References or an In-Reply-To header, those headers store the threading information. All versions of MS Outlook that I've run into use them. When things are sent via Exchange that differs, Exchange does things its own way and can't be bothered by RFCs. Unfortunately that can't be remedied from your side. -- Groetjes, Roelof I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.34.1 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6001 Service Pack 1 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled Quad Core 2.4GHz 4 GB RAM pgplXSb2cywHI.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hello Roelof, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:14:42 +0200 your time, you said: P [...snip...] when replying to messages sent to me by people using P Microsoft Office Outlook my replies aren't threaded. [...snip...] That's because the replies sent to you don't contain a References or an In-Reply-To header, [...snip...] Yes, you're correct. I just checked and the emails and they don't contain those normal headers. However, they do contain Thread-Index:, which seems to be a Microsoft specific header that I've not noticed before. All versions of MS Outlook that I've run into use them. This version doesn't seem to. The kludges/headers: X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AckT/hHhbq2zQW3MQrCb7evKSGep5Q==. Unfortunately that can't be remedied from your side. Annoying though. Maybe TB! will be able to recognise Outlook threading headers one day. -- Simon (Privateofcourse) #2283. Squaw Led I Mrs Roy ¶ TB! 4.0.34 WinXP Pro Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hallo Simon, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:19:39 +0100GMT (12-9-2008, 12:19 +0200, where I live), you wrote: P Yes, you're correct. I just checked and the emails and they don't contain P those normal headers. However, they do contain Thread-Index:, which seems P to be a Microsoft specific header that I've not noticed before. All versions of MS Outlook that I've run into use them. P This version doesn't seem to. The kludges/headers: P X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 P X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 P Thread-Index: AckT/hHhbq2zQW3MQrCb7evKSGep5Q==. Might be a configuration issue, when my brother used Outlook 11, his messages contained In-Reply-To, References and Thread-Index. These days he's using MSO 12 and he's still using the same headers. -- Groetjes, Roelof Windows 95: Making Windows work just like a Mac did 10 years ago! http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.34.1 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6001 Service Pack 1 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled Quad Core 2.4GHz 4 GB RAM pgpB4bP6SMwRW.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hello Roelof, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:18:47 +0200 your time, you said: Might be a configuration issue, when my brother used Outlook 11, his messages contained In-Reply-To, References and Thread-Index. These days he's using MSO 12 and he's still using the same headers. Some confusion here I think. I don't think I made myself clear enough, sorry: I did a search, and discovered that Microsoft have, in their infinite wisdom, removed the Message-ID header from Outlook (a while back it seems) supposedly due of 'security issues'. Of course that messes everything up. So, this is my take on how this breaks threading: 1. (i) A new email with a new 'subject' is sent from an Outlook client. (ii) Outlook does not add a message-ID: header to the email. 2. (i) In The Bat! I receive the email and reply to the Outlook message (ii) The Bat! does not include an In-Reply-To: header because their is no message-ID in the email being replied to, so no References either. 3. (i) The Outlook user then replies to MY reply (ii) Outlook DOES then add an In-Reply-To: header to their email reply 4. (i) I receive their reply. (ii) The Bat! then threads the last two emails because it can find an In-Reply-To: reference. 5. (i) I then reply again (ii) But this reply isn't threaded in TB! either because their is still no originator's message-ID in the Outlook reply, so The Bat! does not reference any of the the previous emails And so forth, and so forth... So, without Outlook providing and initial message-ID TB! won't thread the messages. I can of course thread by References and subject and received time and hope that the right messages are threaded together, but still... -- Simon (Privateofcourse) #1792. Arm Dress Wily Quo ¶ TB! 4.0.34 WinXP Pro Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hallo Simon, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:51:43 +0100GMT (12-9-2008, 13:51 +0200, where I live), you wrote: P So, this is my take on how this breaks threading: P 1. (i) A new email with a new 'subject' is sent from an Outlook client. P(ii) Outlook does not add a message-ID: header to the email. That's still something that can be configured in Outlook P 2. (i) In The Bat! I receive the email and reply to the Outlook message P(ii) The Bat! does not include an In-Reply-To: header because their is no P message-ID in the email being replied to, so no References either. Ouch! Not only does Outlook 'forget' to insert the msg-id, but the intermediate servers also forget about that, according to the relevant RFCs that should be done. Anyway there's nothing you can do about that. Only thing I can suggest that you switch to thread on references and subject. P So, without Outlook providing and initial message-ID TB! won't thread the P messages. I can of course thread by References and subject and received time P and hope that the right messages are threaded together, but still... But you thought of that yourself. When the automatic threading goes awry, you can always override the threading manually -- Groetjes, Roelof The Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.34.1 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6001 Service Pack 1 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled Quad Core 2.4GHz 4 GB RAM pgpswcSIyr4Xt.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 12:51:43 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Privateofcourse wrote: I can of course thread by References and subject and received time How? The Bat! only gives me the following 6 choices for threading:- None References (standard) Subject From To References + Subject -- Best regards, MFPA Keep them dry and don't feed them after midnight Using The Bat! v4.0.28.3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi I have just encountered the re-vamped QT editor and cannot read my QTs in it because the text and background are now the same colour and I cannot find a way to change the background colour. In my viewer/editor preferences I have white text on a black background, which is much easier on the eyes when reading/composing messages. The old-style QT editor followed those settings. The new-style QT editor honours the text colour but shows the background in white, regardless of what colour I set. As a workaround, I have to change my text colour in the viewer/editor preferences any time I wish to view/edit/create a QT. Does anybody know if there is a new, hidden setting for the QT editor background setting? -- Best regards, MFPA Volvo, Video, Velcro. (I came, I saw, I stuck around.) Using The Bat! v4.0.28.3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hello MFPA, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:05:03 +0100 your time, you said: I can of course thread by References and subject and received time How? The Bat! only gives me the following 6 choices for threading:- Okay, more accurately, to get around it I meant this: View Menu - | Sort by: - Received time | View Threads by: - References + Subject - Group by Date So I haven't got anything extra in my TB!version ;-) And I don't sort by Descending order JFYR, so the newest message thread always appears at the top of the 'daily message tree'. For discussion lists this is the best setting that I've found (+ save the view mode as 'expanded' so you're not forever clicking little +es) ...well it is best for me at least. As an aside, I think the number of view combinations must be unique to TB! because I haven't found anything as comprehensive in any other client...not that I'm looking. With the view set as described above replying to a message in a thread seven days old for example, will mean that the whole thread is made current and moved up to 'Today' messages. This saves a lot of faffing about. There's always a downside, but I haven't come across it yet...although I'm sure someone will enlighten me if there is. -- Simon (Privateofcourse) #609. Masque Slid Worry ¶ TB! 4.0.34 WinXP Pro Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 3:51:15 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Privateofcourse wrote: Okay, more accurately, to get around it I meant this: View Menu - | Sort by: - Received time | View Threads by: - References + Subject - Group by Date So I haven't got anything extra in my TB!version ;-) Thanks for clearing that up. I prefer to sort by creation time but it escapes me why I found that worked better for me than received time. I sort by References, not subject as I get unrelated messages with the same subject (such as hello or look at this). I'm not sure about the group by date function as it seems to alter the order slightly as well as putting in the date-related groupings. Anyway, I sometimes use it to help me look for something but not as a regular view. And I don't sort by Descending order JFYR, so the newest message thread always appears at the top of the 'daily message tree'. Same here. For discussion lists this is the best setting that I've found (+ save the view mode as 'expanded' so you're not forever clicking little +es) ...well it is best for me at least. As an aside, I think the number of view combinations must be unique to TB! because I haven't found anything as comprehensive in any other client...not that I'm looking. With the view set as described above replying to a message in a thread seven days old for example, will mean that the whole thread is made current and moved up to 'Today' messages. This saves a lot of faffing about. I don't get that as I don't group by date. I may give it a try. There's always a downside, but I haven't come across it yet...although I'm sure someone will enlighten me if there is. The only downside I experience is the order replies are displayed. For example, a thread started at noon with replies to the original post at 12:30, 13:00, etc. The 13:00 reply is displayed above the 12:30 display, so if you start reading from the top of the thread you read the later reply first (which can be confusing if they refer to the earlier reply in their own reply). -- Best regards, MFPA Editing is a rewording activity Using The Bat! v4.0.28.3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hallo MFPA, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:48:23 +0100GMT (12-9-2008, 16:48 +0200, where I live), you wrote: M I have just encountered the re-vamped QT editor and cannot read my QTs M in it because the text and background are now the same colour and I M cannot find a way to change the background colour. Upgrade to the most recent version. Create a new viewer profile (never mind the actual settings) Change the used profile of the QT editor to that new profile and then set it back to the generic profile You set the viewer profile of the QT editor in the menu of the QT editor. IIRC editor profiles were a work in progress in the previous version, so they might not work as intended in your 4.0.28 -- Groetjes, Roelof WinErr 004: Erroneous error - nothing is wrong http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.34 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6001 Service Pack 1 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled Quad Core 2.4GHz 4 GB RAM pgp3JCHRk0Lys.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
On Friday, September 12, 2008, 16:48:23, MFPA wrote: Does anybody know if there is a new, hidden setting for the QT editor background setting? I don't think so, but I don't have this problem in the current beta (4.0.34), so it was probably fixed (unfortunately, the account templates still hardcode the text colour to black, making them almost invisible). -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ In matters of dispute, the bank's balance is always smaller than yours. -- Checkbook Balancer's Law Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 2:53:22 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Roelof Otten wrote: Ouch! Not only does Outlook 'forget' to insert the msg-id, but the intermediate servers also forget about that, according to the relevant RFCs that should be done. Anyway there's nothing you can do about that. Couldn't a third-party app (such as xray mail assistant) be used to insert a message-id? Or, maybe, a filter that exported the message and called a simple batch file that added a message-id header and imported the message back in? -- Best regards, MFPA You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do Using The Bat! v4.0.28.3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 5:28:59 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Roelof Otten wrote: Upgrade to the most recent version. I've just downloaded 4.0.34 and will backup and install Create a new viewer profile (never mind the actual settings) Just tried that in my current version to see how to do it. I could only switch my viewer and editor back to my default by deleting the new one. Change the used profile of the QT editor to that new profile and then set it back to the generic profile You set the viewer profile of the QT editor in the menu of the QT editor. In 4.0.28 I don't have that. Will update and look again. -- Best regards, MFPA Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about Using The Bat! v4.0.28.3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 5:30:01 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jernej Simoncic wrote: I don't have this problem in the current beta (4.0.34), so it was probably fixed Thanks. I'll try 4.0.34, which is currently the release version. (unfortunately, the account templates still hardcode the text colour to black, making them almost invisible). Not yet had a problem with that: I've only ever been able to see account templates in black text on a white background. Usually, mine say %INCLUDE=%maildir%\templates\filename.txt%- and I edit in Notepad. Which reminds me: anybody know a good, free Notepad replacement that can be set up to use pale text on a dark background? -- Best regards, MFPA Did you hear? They took the word gullible out of the dictionary Using The Bat! v4.0.28.3 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 8:31:07 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], MFPA wrote: Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 5:30:01 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jernej Simoncic wrote: I don't have this problem in the current beta (4.0.34), so it was probably fixed Thanks. I'll try 4.0.34, which is currently the release version. And which still exhibits the problem here. (unfortunately, the account templates still hardcode the text colour to black, making them almost invisible). Not yet had a problem with that: I've only ever been able to see account templates in black text on a white background. Which is still the case in 4.0.34 -- Best regards, MFPA Always borrow money from a pessimist - they don't expect it back Using The Bat! v4.0.34 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 8:45:57 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], I wrote: I've just downloaded 4.0.34 and will backup and install Done that Create a new viewer profile (never mind the actual settings) Just tried that in my current version to see how to do it. I could only switch my viewer and editor back to my default by deleting the new one. In 4.0.34 I can switch between viewer profiles in the viewer or the message editor. Change the used profile of the QT editor to that new profile and then set it back to the generic profile You set the viewer profile of the QT editor in the menu of the QT editor. In 4.0.28 I don't have that. Will update and look again. In 4.0.34 I now have that option. It is not sticky and needs re-setting each time. Only available when there is another profile except the default - but will let me pick the default. -- Best regards, MFPA Don't learn safety rules by accident... Using The Bat! v4.0.34 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
On Friday, September 12, 2008, 3:31:07 PM, MFPA wrote: M Which reminds me: anybody know a good, free Notepad replacement that M can be set up to use pale text on a dark background? ___ Jarte has a free edition which might suit your requirements. http://www.jarte.com/ Jon Using The Bat! v4.0.34.1 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 -- We are asking exactly the same questions now about the sources of human action as we once asked about the heavenly bodies. There has been no progress. We have no idea how to approach this question within the framework of science. We can write novels about it, but we cannot construct even false theories about it. We simply have nothing to say. -- Noam Chomsky Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
On Friday, September 12, 2008, 22:50:10, MFPA wrote: And which still exhibits the problem here. There must be something wrong with your colour settings then - the QT editor looks fine in my colour scheme: http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image1hc9.png Which reminds me: anybody know a good, free Notepad replacement that can be set up to use pale text on a dark background? Why don't you simply set up Windows to use such colour scheme? -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ The simple explanation always follows the complex solution. -- Rule of Scientific Endeavor Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 10:13:18 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jernej Simoncic wrote: On Friday, September 12, 2008, 22:50:10, MFPA wrote: And which still exhibits the problem here. There must be something wrong with your colour settings then Problem solved: once I realised the setting is only there when you have another profile in addition to the default and the problem returns when you delete the extra profile - the QT editor looks fine in my colour scheme: http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image1hc9.png It does look good in your scheme. How did you get the list of accounts on the left to appear on a dark background? I still have not found a setting for that, although in the main window I use colour groups in the folder tree. Which reminds me: anybody know a good, free Notepad replacement that can be set up to use pale text on a dark background? Why don't you simply set up Windows to use such colour scheme? Because it is a bit too global for me. I prefer to view icons and pictures against a light background but find it much easier on the eyes to read pale text against a dark background. I think I'm just awkward (-; -- Best regards, MFPA It's better to feed one cat than many mice Using The Bat! v4.0.34 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Template Editor background colour
Hi On Friday 12 September 2008 at 10:10:58 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Polish wrote: Jarte has a free edition which might suit your requirements. http://www.jarte.com/ Thanks, I'll check it out. -- Best regards, MFPA An idealist is a person who helps other people to be prosperous Using The Bat! v4.0.34 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Threading by references and received time and Outlook
Hallo MFPA, On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:10:04 +0100GMT (12-9-2008, 21:10 +0200, where I live), you wrote: Ouch! Not only does Outlook 'forget' to insert the msg-id, but the intermediate servers also forget about that, according to the relevant RFCs that should be done. Anyway there's nothing you can do about that. M Couldn't a third-party app (such as xray mail assistant) be used to M insert a message-id? Over here my own server is doing that, but as I´m running the mail server for my domain that´s nothing extra. I don´t know whether Xray could be configured to add a message-id. M Or, maybe, a filter that exported the message and called a simple M batch file that added a message-id header and imported the message M back in? Of course, that could be managed, but that would be quite a hassle -- Groetjes, Roelof Oops. - Most feared word in Nuclear Physics and Brain Surgery... http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.34.1 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6001 Service Pack 1 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled Quad Core 2.4GHz 4 GB RAM pgpESuV3hlWPR.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
