Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 10:02:31 PM, you wrote: snipped The stripped message is what the folder (it is *not* a folder) gives to The Bat!. The folder does not store the message stripped. It strips it *while passing it to The Bat!*. The Bat! does not strip it. Please stop saying it is The Bat! and you might start moving towards a solution. Downloading direct from the ISP server instead of this silly folder (it is NOT a folder - it is just a poorly written local email server) should prove that once and for all. more snipping M Your logic to me at least makes no sense. It makes a great deal of sense. Please think a bit deeper and try to understand what I (and many others) have been trying to explain to you about how this works. Your calling it a folder and looking in the temporary message store is doing nothing but confusing you. Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that we actually do. It gives me no pleasure to report that requesting the emails direct has made no difference at all to the appearance of some emails, they are still being stripped. I will not bore you or anyone else withis any further as it is obviously something specific to my set up or ISP so I will live with it for a while and C. The only other option to try is to have my mails routed through a completely different MailServer to see if that makes a difference which I will try. I will only report if I find an answer to the mystery so you can put your kill file filters away :-) -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Allie, Wednesday, October 20, 2004, 12:03:42 PM, you wrote: On Wednesday, October 20, 2004 at 1:21:44 AM [GMT -0500], Morpheus wrote: It gives me no pleasure to report that requesting the emails direct has made no difference at all to the appearance of some emails, they are still being stripped. Have you tried another e-mail client to see what happens? I recently transferred my mail from Poco Mail to TheBat! I had not experienced this problem with mail before this exchange... however there is more to this than this simple statement..if I may explain- When I heard about the wondrous things TheBat! could do with handling spam I decided to lift all my redirection email addresses which were currently going into an account at mailinator.com and have them once again bombard me with spam so that I could try and teach BayesIT how to recognise an avalanche of spam. 95% of my spam was going unseen but there were odd iems that kept getting through the net and as I like to tinker I thought I could get TheBat! to spamate them once and for all. So to tell the truth Poco Mail has never received any spam mail so I cannot say for certain that it did not have this problem before the installation. I have had my domain name for several years and as such I am have been found by up to 50 spammers a day so TheBat! gets a good workout :-) I have only lost one email that I did not want to lose all the rest that have been stripped have been crap mail. Bonafide mail does not seem to be affected at all. In fact I opened a hotmail account and sent myself a message to see if it was stripped and it was not so I suspect it is those emails that contain only a HREF to an external image and no content. And this leads me to suspect BayesIT is the guilty party with some internal flag to render this type of email harmless. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Wednesday, October 20, 2004, 2:34:09 PM, you wrote: Dear Thomas, @20-Oct-2004, 20:20 +0700 (20-Oct 14:20 UK time) Thomas Fernandez [TF] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Morpheus: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so if M anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, would it M not have done so already? Yet when I look at the raw message in my M TEXTEDITOR I see the whole and not the stripped message TheBat! M offers up to me. TF How do you open the messages in the text editor? The Satellite software is downloading the messages into a holding folder external to TB and driver by its own virtual POP handler. The holding folder is a simple disk folder that contains .msg files. These files can be viewed with a text editor. TF Over here, the mails are downloaded into the .tbb files, and these TF show garbage in the text editor. So what file are you opening? The satellite offline message folder contents external to TB - prior to receiving the messages in TB. .. snip TF No apparently it is not your satellite software, Actually - it seem that there is possibly something amiss with the message body format before it even arrives in the offline folder. Although the whole message can be seen in a text editor, once it is transmitted by POP protocol to TB, the body has been removed. Morpheus has said this happens with or without the middle-man offline folder's intervention. Telling TB to grab the messages from the Satellite ISP's POP server directly by changing the account settings in TB still resulted in truncated messages. Unless, of course, Morpheus simply opened the connection and downloaded, expecting the messages to come direct from the ISP without changing any settings... in which case, we still don't know. TF you do have the full message on your computer. But where, I TF wonder. The message body gets lost on the way from that file which TF you can open in the text editor to the import into TB. Yes - and POP3 is the import method. No I am stupid but not that stupid :-) I changed my settings from pop3server 127.0.0.1 to mail.skydsl.de and this requires an open internet connection to pull (did I say that right) the mail to my PC. I said in an earlier email that this stripping appears to be very selective and far more intelligent than I. It only appears to strip spam but I do recall the emails I viewed intact before DID contain text and not just an external reference to an image or site elsewhere. Something on my computer seems to be leaping in at the transfer stage from localhost folder to TheBat! to kill the content. Could it be SPYBOT? It is not designed to do this as far as I know but apart from that and AVG and Kerio is the only stuff I have running except of course my satellite software which always running. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hi Marck Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 12:51:08 PM, you wrote: Dear Tbudl, @19-Oct-2004, 12:35 TBUDL [T] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to David: T I see the headers only with the rest of the email stripped out by T TheBat! This is simply not true. TB is not stripping your mail. It doesn't. It won't. Nobody has come forward yet to support your reported experience. If TB were capable of doing this we would all have seen it happen at some time or another. Nobody here has. Whatever is sat on your 127.0.0.1 delivery system is doing it. You didn't tell us what you have on that. TB may fail to /display/ content, but a view of the message source always shows an intact receipt. Whatever TB is sent, it stores. Anything else is the influence of something external to TB. And please use a better alias than TBUDL. And please trim your replies to context - your last included a list footer! Seems like I have touched a nerve? First of all there has already been support from others commenting on a similar thing happening to them. My delivery system is a folder which receives my email from a satellite connection and there it sits until I use an email client to fetch it from the folder. When I view the raw message for the ones that HAVE been stripped they are intact until TheBat! loads them so by simple means of elimination it can only be either TheBat! and my settings or BayesIT. I have changed my alias to something more appropriate and I agree it is confusing but never realised until I started to see my messages in the list. Hopefully I have trimmed my list footers as well :-) My thoughts now are that something has become corrupted and before I scrap TheBat! perhaps I should uninstall and then reinstall to see if I can eliminate the problem that way. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Empty Mail Update
Hello I have uninstalled everything and removed all traces (that I can find) from the Register. Reinstalled everything and fed BayesIT with 500 good and 500 bad emails. I will let you know (if you are interested) if I find any further email stripping. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Alexander, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:10:33 PM, you wrote: Hello Morpheus, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 2:07:26 PM, you wrote: My delivery system is a folder which receives my email from a satellite connection and there it sits until I use an email client to fetch it from the folder Sorry to jump in here but I can't bear reading this any longer. :-) The IP address 127.0.0.1 is also called *localhost* - it (usually) is your OWN machine! Ping 127.0.0.1 will have your own computer answer your ping request. You *must* have something sitting in between TheBat! and your POP3/IMAP server, there's no way around that. Are you using a virus scanner that scans your email, or an additional local spam filter, or message mangling program (like xrayapp), or whatever. In essence, when you look up mails it may be something like TheBat! - virus scanner - POP3 server Or whatever... Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT illiterate idiots like me ;-) The only application that divides me from incoming mail is Kerio Personal Firewall and I use AVG Anti Virus which is not capable of recognising my incoming mail unless I try to open it and it contains a virus it will then intercept. I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point out is my own machine. My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly connected to the internet via my ISP and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 successfully locates this folder and gives me email. There are NO additional local spam filters nor message mangling programs although I have never heard of one of these and would surely know if I had downloaded and installed one presumably. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:15:57 PM, you wrote: Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 16:23 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Alexander: .. snip Sorry to jump in here but I can't bear reading this any longer. :-) The IP address 127.0.0.1 is also called *localhost* - it (usually) is your OWN machine! Ping 127.0.0.1 will have your own computer answer your ping request. Correct. You *must* have something sitting in between TheBat! and your POP3/IMAP server, there's no way around that. 100% true. M Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my M message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT M illiterate idiots like me ;-) Well, you are clearly missing something that I have been trying to say and has now been said by someone else. M The only application that divides me from incoming mail is Kerio M Personal Firewall and I use AVG Anti Virus which is not capable of M recognising my incoming mail unless I try to open it and it contains a M virus it will then intercept. .. but wait ... there's more that *you* (clearly and sadly) don't realize about your own computer system ... M I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point M out is my own machine. Not only is it your machine, but it is a *piece of software* on your machine listening on TCP/IP port 110 (the POP3 port) to your requests for your email from The Bat! That software then digs it out of the folder and sends it to you. It is software. It is software that opens an email message from the folder and sends it to TB. *THAT* is the software that is eating your messages. Sorry, but you don't seem to be understanding this basic and fundamental point I (and others) are making here. M My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly M connected to the internet via my ISP downloads? By magic? Not really. It uses the POP3 protocol on an open TCP/IP connection. And it's not the satellite connection that does it. It is software that uses the open connection to do it. Software provided by your ISP. Faulty software, IMHO. M and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 M successfully locates this folder and gives me email. That is not correct. It seems to me that you don't understand the process quite enough. 127.0.0.1 is the IP address of a *Mail Server* - a mail server program running on your computer itself. Your satellite software includes a local mail server and tries to blind you with non-science by calling it a folder. It's not a folder. It's a local mail server - a piece of software (whether or not you previously knew that). M There are NO additional local spam filters nor message mangling M programs But there is. It's the software from your satellite ISP. The one that calls itself a mail folder. I believe that is what is mangling your mail on delivery. I have no idea why it should do that. Contact your ISP and check that you have the latest version and start ranting to them about POP3 compatibility, because IMHO you are calling the wrong kettle black. M although I have never heard of one of these and would surely know M if I had downloaded and installed one presumably. Well, it seems to me that you actually don't know ... and without realising it ... you did! I have decided not to snip as I dont know what bits would be best to snip :-) You really are very abrupt Marck. We or should I say I am not as literate in these matters as you so obviously are but that does not mean I am a dunce, nor does it prevent me from wishing to learn more so chill dude. Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so if anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, would it not have done so already? Yet when I look at the raw message in my TEXTEDITOR I see the whole and not the stripped message TheBat! offers up to me. When I open TheBat! and ask to see my messages it pulls them from the folder and does its thing. If the satellite software was going to strip the emails why would it not have done so already. Your logic to me at least makes no sense. After my uninstall and reinstall the problem has not disappeared but I may well do so you will be pleased to know. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail Update
Hello Jeff, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:18:35 PM, you wrote: Hello Group On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 4:05:20 PM, wrote: Hello I have uninstalled everything and removed all traces (that I can find) from the Register. Reinstalled everything and fed BayesIT with 500 good and 500 bad emails. I will let you know (if you are interested) if I find any further email stripping. Let us know if you want any of us to send you test emails of any type. Thanks for the offer Jeff but the problem still persists and 99.9% of the emails it does this with are SPAM sp perhaps I should just let it get on with it and thank my lucky stars I dont have to look at the crap they are sending to me. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Alexander, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:37:46 PM, you wrote: Hello Morpheus everyone else 19-Okt-2004 17:23, you wrote: Very pleased to have you jump in. Thank you for converting my message to something Techies can understand rather than the IT illiterate idiots like me ;-) I just felt that you and Marck could not connect somehow... :) Sorry, only to germans: Hölle, was heisst aneinander vorbeireden auf Englisch? (it is only a question on how to express a certain phrase so any non-germans do not miss a thing, no hidden jokes, no nothing, promised!) I collect my mail by using 127.0.0.1 which you quite rightly point out is my own machine. My satellite connection downloads mail without my PC being directly connected to the internet via my ISP and dumps the mail into a personal folder and using 127.0.0.1 successfully locates this folder and gives me email. So, as Marck already said, some sorta software *must* be installed on your PC. It listens on port 110 for any POP3 requests and then feeds the mail that it temporarily stored, whichever way, to the program that made the POP3 request - that program happens to be TheBat!, and it gets something that is already on your system, and possibly got mangled somehow on its way there, either on the satellite route, or by the software that buffers the content locally on your end. Now, I don't know much about satellite technique, but I assume it is some sort of proxy. Who configured the machine for you when you got that satellite connection? There was no config the CD software did it all for me illieterate as I am. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Thomas, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 5:59:05 PM, you wrote: Hello Alexander, On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:37:46 +0200 GMT (19/10/2004, 23:37 +0700 GMT), Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Sorry, only to germans: Hölle, was heisst aneinander vorbeireden auf ASK Englisch? Talking about different things. I side with Marck. I receive messages in the office that fit the description posted by Morpheus, and they were cleaned by NAV. (Sorry Marck, that's what the IT people decided to use.) Morpheus, what happens if you make TB not connect to localhost but directly to the ISP's POP server? Aha thanks Thomas a man with a sensible suggestion and yes I can connect directly with the satellite ISP for my mail it is just very convenient not to have to connect to collect mail but it is worth trying this option to see if it makes a difference. -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Empty Mail
Hello Marck, Tuesday, October 19, 2004, 10:02:31 PM, you wrote: Dear Morpheus, @19-Oct-2004, 20:40 Morpheus [M] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: M Using my language I can see inside 'the folder' the raw messages so M if anything was going to 'mangle' it as you poetically put it, M would it not have done so already? No. It gets changed as it is *sent* from the folder you can see inside (and it is not a folder - it is the pre-transmission mail store). M Yet when I look at the raw message in my TEXTEDITOR I see the whole M and not the stripped message TheBat! offers up to me. The stripped message is what the folder (it is *not* a folder) gives to The Bat!. The folder does not store the message stripped. It strips it *while passing it to The Bat!*. The Bat! does not strip it. Please stop saying it is The Bat! and you might start moving towards a solution. Downloading direct from the ISP server instead of this silly folder (it is NOT a folder - it is just a poorly written local email server) should prove that once and for all. M When I open TheBat! and ask to see my messages it pulls them from M the folder and does its thing. No it doesn't do its thing. It receives. It doesn't pull anything from any folder like you do with your TEXTEDITOR. It asks the silly folder thing to send it the messages. The silly folder thing sends. It doesn't sit back and say here's my folder, help yourself. It sends. That's where it goes wrong. The silly folder thing is *sending it wrong*. I'm not being condescending rude or abrupt here but I'm finding it very hard to put this in terms you are likely to understand. M If the satellite software was going to strip the emails why would M it not have done so already. Why? It hasn't *sent* them yet. M Your logic to me at least makes no sense. It makes a great deal of sense. Please think a bit deeper and try to understand what I (and many others) have been trying to explain to you about how this works. Your calling it a folder and looking in the temporary message store is doing nothing but confusing you. Even if you don't know what we're talking about, accept that we actually do. Eureka now I understand what you are trying to force down my illiterate throat and I thank you for being so patient. I will now as you suggest switch to direct download and see if that cures it. Still at least we got off the subject of installing 3.001 for a few minutes. Thanks Marck :-) -- Morpheus Current version is 3.0.1.33 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
