Re: we need real *powerful* threading
On Thursday, August 19, 2004, 05:18:29, Samson wrote: thebat's current threading is a good start, but has a long way to go. *sigh* I've said this years ago, but the general tenor of the replies was that it's the other mail client's fault and thus TheBat wouldn't have to change. Well, though it might very well be that Outlook etc mess up Follow-Up headers, other mail clients do a *splendid* job of matching messages to threads. One pretty perfect example (to me) is the Open Source, text mode mail client mutt. I'm on a music DSP mailing list where people with a lot of mail clients post. mutt does a superb job of threading long after TB has given up, even though the mailing list server inserts an annoying [music-dsp] into the subject. my $0.02 Roman -- If a listener nods his head when you're explaining your program, wake him up. Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
we need real *powerful* threading
as the email client program that helps me process hundreds of email everyday, i believe there is nothing more important than a really sophisticated threading machanism. this machanism is expected to help me find related conversations of an email quickly and accurately. thebat's current threading is a good start, but has a long way to go. the main concern is the subject matching algorithm. it seems that thebat can match subjects processed by another thebat very well, but if the other guy uses a different email program and the subject prefix is slightly different (FWD vs. FW, or re/fwd in a different language), or re and fwd are cascaded a couple of times, thebat starts to get confused and sort them as different conversations. in worst case, some email program truncates subjects and thebat has no way to tell these replies correctly. i think thebat needs a better subject matching algorithm, maybe a fuzzy one, for exmple, evaluate every subject and give it a score or something like that, and sort threads based on these scores. as soon as the threading machanism is carefully redesigned and reimplemented, i believe thebat will really become the most attractive email program. today there is *no one* email program that can process conversation well. i hope thebat can be the first. -- Samson, using Agent newsreader Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:18:29 -0700, Samson wrote: i think thebat needs a better subject matching algorithm Why do you use threading by subject, and not by references? Threading by references in TB is close-to perfect (the only things I am still missing are built-in function to manually add messages to a thread and manually break a thread). The threading can only be improved by automatically falling back to a combined threading by subject and creation date in case the sender uses a mail application that breaks the threading by reference. Certain webmailers like hotmail, or M$ Outlook when sending thru Exchange do that. They remove the References and In-Reply-To Header. -- Greetings, Alexander Kunz Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hello Alexander, Threading by references in TB is close-to perfect (the only things I am still missing are built-in function to manually add messages to a thread and manually break a thread). Take a look at www.rancho-k.com :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.12.00 Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
==Original message text=== From: Samson public-samsonsu-/[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, August 19, 2004, 11:18:29 AM Subject: we need real *powerful* threading S as the email client program that helps me process hundreds of email S everyday, i believe there is nothing more important than a really S sophisticated threading machanism. this machanism is expected to help S me find related conversations of an email quickly and accurately. S thebat's current threading is a good start, but has a long way to go. S the main concern is the subject matching algorithm. it seems that S thebat can match subjects processed by another thebat very well, but S if the other guy uses a different email program and the subject prefix S is slightly different (FWD vs. FW, or re/fwd in a different language), S or re and fwd are cascaded a couple of times, thebat starts to get S confused and sort them as different conversations. in worst case, some S email program truncates subjects and thebat has no way to tell these S replies correctly. S i think thebat needs a better subject matching algorithm, maybe a S fuzzy one, for exmple, evaluate every subject and give it a score or S something like that, and sort threads based on these scores. S as soon as the threading machanism is carefully redesigned and S reimplemented, i believe thebat will really become the most attractive S email program. today there is *no one* email program that can process S conversation well. i hope thebat can be the first. ===End of original message text=== I'm not sure but I think I've read an article on threading in the past. It said that the norm for threading is that thread has to be encoded in a special key in the header of the mail and the soft has to read this header... A real threading can't be based on subject string... And TB was reward after Pocomail because of this problem... It's not my opinion, it is what I've read and my memory can distort the meaning... I try to find this article asap. -- WilWilWil [EMAIL PROTECTED] TB 2.12.00 Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:13:30 +0200, MAU [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Threading by references in TB is close-to perfect (the only things I am still missing are built-in function to manually add messages to a thread and manually break a thread). Take a look at www.rancho-k.com :) I beg your pardon, but this is way too complicated for me, thats why I wrote built-in function... :-) (I am fully aware that your solutions already has existed for quite a while now). Thanks anyway! -- Greetings, Alexander Kunz Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hello Alexander, I beg your pardon, but this is way too complicated for me, thats why I wrote built-in function... :-) (I am fully aware that your solutions already has existed for quite a while now). I also wish/want/need the built-in function. My solution is just a hopefully temporary work around. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.12.00 Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hello Samson, snipped a bit i think thebat needs a better subject matching algorithm, maybe a fuzzy one, for exmple, evaluate every subject and give it a score or something like that, and sort threads based on these scores. as soon as the threading machanism is carefully redesigned and reimplemented, i believe thebat will really become the most attractive email program. today there is *no one* email program that can process conversation well. i hope thebat can be the first. Although I agree that subject matching can and should be improved in TB, threading by subject can never achieve actual threading as can be accomplished with Threading by Reference using the In-Reply-To and/or References header lines. The obnly problem with Threading by Reference, as Alexander has pointed out, is that some e-mail clients (or servers) do break the threading headers. Threading by subject should actually be called Grouping by Subject. Anyway, a workaround I use when I want to see a thread (group) by subject is to create a VF. That way I can see and follow the thread (group) even if messages are in different folders. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.12.00 Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Alexander S. Kunz @ 2004-Aug-19 5:36:52 AM we need real *powerful* threading mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (the only things I am still missing are built-in function to manually add messages to a thread and manually break a thread). Please add your support to the feature request at https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001440 Similar Requests (that have NOT been reviewed yet): https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001226 https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=602 Also, the Ignore Thread feature is missing. Please see this feature request and add your support: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001542 -- Chris Quoting when replying to this message is good for your karma. Using The Bat! v2.12.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 On a fence: Salesman Welcome. Dog food is expensive. pgpSjXabdJgi2.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hi Alexander S. Kunz - On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, at 11:36:52 [GMT +0200] (which was 2:36 AM where I live) you wrote: Threading by references in TB is close-to perfect (the only things I am still missing are built-in function to manually add messages to a thread and manually break a thread). Exactly, IMO. Provision for connecting orphan threads would be extremely beneficial. -- Best Regards, Kevin PGP Keys: idap://keyserver.pgp.com idap://europe.keys.pgp.com:11370 Using The Bat! v2.12.04 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgpEOSedQT18e.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hi MAU - On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, at 12:13:30 [GMT +0200] (which was 3:13 AM where I live) you wrote: Hello Alexander, Take a look at www.rancho-k.com :) This does not work if one is using IMAP and it is a kludge at best, IMO. -- Best Regards, Kevin PGP Keys: idap://keyserver.pgp.com idap://europe.keys.pgp.com:11370 Using The Bat! v2.12.04 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgpWSRE5A49pq.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hello Kevin, Take a look at www.rancho-k.com :) This does not work if one is using IMAP and it is a kludge at best, IMO. Sorry, I don't use IMAP. And it is a workaround until Ritlabs decides to integrate the functionality in TB. Better a kludge than nothing :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.12.00 Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
Hi MAU - On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, at 20:21:54 [GMT +0200] (which was 11:21 AM where I live) you wrote: Hello Kevin, Sorry, I don't use IMAP. And it is a workaround until Ritlabs decides to integrate the functionality in TB. Better a kludge than nothing :) Don't be sorry and I understand that it might be better than nothing. -- Best Regards, Kevin PGP Keys: idap://keyserver.pgp.com idap://europe.keys.pgp.com:11370 Using The Bat! v2.12.04 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 pgpRNSxjB4ztb.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: we need real *powerful* threading
On Thu 19 August 2004, 19:36:52 +1000, Alexander S. Kunz wrote: Threading by references in TB is close-to perfect (the only things I am still missing are built-in function to manually add messages to a thread and manually break a thread). I have a very effective pair of filters that make or break threads, but they rely on the UltraEdit editor and its macro capability. To add messages to the thread I simply copy the message id of the parent message from the message previews header section, highlight the message I want to add to the thread and press my hotkey combination. The modified child message then appears in my inbox. If anyone uses this editor and wants more detail, I am happy to provide it. -- Robin Using The Bat! v2.12.00 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.12.00 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
