Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Monday, August 14, 2000, 11:08:06 AM, Dierk wrote: BTW, my browser is Opera and what I don't like about the latest version is it's integrating of features which are not - repeat *not* - really integral to a browser, i.e. news and mail facilities. Uhm, those were present well before v4.0 was ever even thought of. Even it's download manager seems to me superfluous as there are at least two very good managers on the market (Go!zilla and GetRight). I don't see how it is a download manager at all. It seems to fit right in and certainly doesn't offer the power of a more specialized FTP client. I have LeechFTP as my FTP client and use it regularly where Opera fails. If that is all the "download managers" offer, they certainly are not worth a separate client since it is pittance. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZ8kSHpf7K2LbpnFEQIrTgCfckManLVYLiQ4JR5Z9jvBo4lt8IAAn0MX VvDg+ffgNs7ldfKmiLAoT41r =kyA5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Steve, Friday, August 11, 2000, 23:13:38, you wrote: SL It has and that fact has been stated to you. Check the archives if you SL think we're lying. If I recall correctly it was about 5 months ago that we SL had the "newsgroup, web forum" discussion last. - From what I can remember it was I who initiated one of the why can't we have a newsreader discussions. This was because I was then a clueless newbie, at the moment I do not think that the TB! interface is capable of coping with nntp based newsgroups. If TB! had a different interface for newsgroups it may be a good idea. However, if a new interface had to be learnt I might as well stick with Agent. - -- Jamie Dainton Monday, August 14, 2000 08:21:47 The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3 Windows 98 4.10 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=sendKey -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZeek7O9xx6V8gurEQJA+gCfXGR3UN06HuStrQ0CUXWtfXfSWQ4AnitV ymht6mqeMcarusNw6JRdC9WG =s+0f -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
Hello Mark, Sunday, August 13, 2000, 00:48:56, you wrote: Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. MA Perhaps he re-subscribed under anothername?? Maybe that re-sub name should have been Mr Flamebait. It is a bit suspicious the way he tried to draw Steve into an argument again. With the improved Mod rules Steve could easily be booted for a minor slip up. -- Jamie Dainton Monday, August 14, 2000 08:30:14 The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3 Windows 98 4.10 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=sendKey -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:26:42 +0700, tracer wrote: t I have about 439 msgs I havent read yet but if this is about The bat t and newsreaders, its likely a horse skinned, burried and dug up as t prehistoric sample. :-) As long standing members of this list we will have to deal with rehashes of issues as these, small ones though hopefully, for the sake of the new comers who have an interest in this issue. Tracer does make a point that this topic has been extensively discussed on more than one occasion previously. Looking this up in the TBUDL/TBBETA archives would be helpful to those interested enough. t I am absolutely not interested at present in the bat doing any t newsreading in v2, I much prefer to get a v2 sooner which does mail, t after which they can play with news. I personally tend to agree here. Ritlabs is small. If they lose focus it could be a bad move on their part. Supporting news reading may prove to be distracting because once it's supported the userbase will start requesting news-reader features/enhancements. This may very well slow down the development/enhancement of TB! as a premiere specialist e-mail client. t Also its likely more a beta subject... I tend to disagree here. TBUDL subscribers should be free to discuss issues as this when the occasion arises, although prolonged discussions are discouraged. - -- - -=A. Curtis Martin=-Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA Using TB! v1.46 Beta/3 «» Win2k Pro SP1 PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. " -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.3 Comment: Included for sender verification. iQA/AwUBOZgtBvAXeSHuB5k3EQLOKgCdEbYCWoks4jNd2un0zU3iJp8xhIIAoJN7 KMISLQ+qOSPDVioZwUVV1Np4 =iyAj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello! Monday, August 14, 2000, 7:31:50 PM, you wrote: I personally tend to agree here. Ritlabs is small. If they lose focus it could be a bad move on their part. Supporting news reading may prove to be distracting because once it's supported the userbase will start requesting news-reader features/enhancements. This may very well slow down the development/enhancement of TB! as a premiere specialist e-mail client. Just for the record: I used Eudora, OE and Agent for e-mail before switching to TB! I still use Agent for news (maybe I'd use for e-mail,too, if it were as good for it as TB!). And I use TB! for mail. Both programmes do what they do very good - apart from some glitches, which are not that important or get being "fixed" over time. I think we don't need everything done with one programme, or we'd use IE! BTW, my browser is Opera and what I don't like about the latest version is it's integrating of features which are not - repeat *not* - really integral to a browser, i.e. news and mail facilities. Even it's download manager seems to me superfluous as there are at least two very good managers on the market (Go!zilla and GetRight). I like small programmes that can do what they are originally intended for. - -- Using The Bat! 1.45 under Windows 95 4.0 Build 1212 C Dierk Haasis Second Marriage: Another instance of the triumph of hope over experience. (Samuel Johnson) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZgngvTo1oA8g8dLEQJbWACg+vym8+NIpI9oRB5GvmfCoajniCwAn2jN cXs2l+Ug0eAIUhjzw+ls/XMH =dtBo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[3]: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello starc! Thursday, June 29, 2000, 10:29:35 AM, you wrote: Hmm...this confirms what I was saying...people just aren't open for innovations. Who are you? Joe in another guise? Since this is the second time some *newbie* seems to know everything (incl. basic rules for this list) better than Steve - with whom I not always agree - I have to write something about it; you (no, not you Steve) are beginning to get on my nerves! And now one for the topic: I use news groups and I use mailing lists. On the whole I do like the mailing list approach as it usually helps to deflect trolls. BTW, there is no logical right/wrong answer to your suggestions. There may be an empirical one, so for my part you and Joe open your own TB! news group (better still make it a BBS) and leave us real users alone. I hope this is not to degrading ... - -- Using The Bat! 1.45 under Windows 95 4.0 Build 1212 C Dierk Haasis Absurdity: A statement of belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. (Ambrose Bierce) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZU+sfTo1oA8g8dLEQIBTwCdG4mO+ci4xZVCFev2k1h3hFDJCjsAn3jR l0m3A0nMHUJ66THAaDuF9E1D =RsY0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Sat, Aug 12, 2000 at 03:55:19PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Saturday, August 12, 2000, 6:10:14 AM, Dierk wrote: Who are you? Joe in another guise? Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. Perhaps he re-subscribed under anothername?? -- Mark Aston Using Linux 2.2.14-5.0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 15:10:14 +0200, Dierk Haasis wrote: DH Who are you? Joe in another guise? Since this is the second time DH some *newbie* seems to know everything (incl. basic rules for this DH list) better than Steve - with whom I not always agree - I have to DH write something about it; you (no, not you Steve) are beginning to DH get on my nerves! Please desist from this sort of innuendo in relation to Starc. The last thing we wish for a rehash of the argument. Nuh? DH And now one for the topic: I use news groups and I use mailing DH lists. On the whole I do like the mailing list approach as it DH usually helps to deflect trolls. DH BTW, there is no logical right/wrong answer to your suggestions. DH There may be an empirical one, so for my part you and Joe open your DH own TB! news group (better still make it a BBS) and leave us real DH users alone. Starc only made a suggestion which admittedly lacked tact in certain aspects and enough has been said about it so please stop this now. A request was already made by Marck. The whole thing was borne of a misunderstanding of tone and feelings got peeked. There's no need to prolong this any further or invite Starc to start his own group. -- -=A. Curtis Martin=-Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA Using TB! v1.46 Beta/3 «» Win2k Pro SP1 PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey "Never put off till tomorrow what you can ignore entirely. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
Hello Chuck, Friday, August 11, 2000, 1:29:31 PM, you wrote: CM Gotta love the "Hi, I'm new, and you're doing things wrong" posts. CM :-) starc ... My question is, why don´t we create a newsgroup or a forum As you see, I wasn´t trying to impose a change...instead I asked a question, why aren´t things being different, and what I think would be better. I dont think it´s wrong to ask a question. If u read the subject of my original mail u will see that its also formulated as a question. CM Another disadvantage of Usenet newsgroups is the spam that follows CM posts there, with the attendant loss of privacy and/or the need to CM institute anti-spam measures with return addresses, etc. This in fact was the only disadvantage u pointed out. CM Lots of suggestions, none of them necessarily bad ... perhaps even CM good. But I, for one, would be more comfortable if you'd stick around CM awhile, watch how things go, and *then* begin instituting your plan of CM reform. ;-) Hmm...u admit urself that my suggestions wheren´t bad at all. So I don´t understand why u are critisizing me. Just cuz Im new? Would my posting be more valuable if I had stuck a while around here? What is more important: the content of the message or the one that wrote it? And...by the way...new people are sometimes better enabled to see things that are wrong...cuz the older users are already familiar with it, they got used to the system and to those things that are wrong. Its the older users that are the most difficult to change to a new system. Its like a new person entering a room with lots of people in it and the windows closed...he senses the bad smell. (this wasnt intended as a critic to this mailing list) CM Nothing personal ... just good netiquette, which I know you're CM familiar with being so at ease on Usenet. Yeah...Im also familiar with people like u, who think that their main task is to point their fingers onto other people... -- Best regards, starcmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wednesday, June 28, 2000, 6:37:07 PM, starc wrote: And...by the way...new people are sometimes better enabled to see things that are wrong...cuz the older users are already familiar with it, they got used to the system and to those things that are wrong. Its the older users that are the most difficult to change to a new system. Its like a new person entering a room with lots of people in it and the windows closed...he senses the bad smell. (this wasnt intended as a critic to this mailing list) *cough* Bullpoo. It is always the newbie, ALWAYS, that comes in and thinks that the newest and latest and greatest is /better/ than the rest because it is newest. When you can address all my points maybe us old fogies will pay attention to you. That will show that you've actually thought it out instead of default to what is new and what you're used to. BTW, I noticed that you're using "u" to denote the pronoun "you". Now, I'm not one to criticize another person's spelling since my is not the greatest when outside a spell checker backing me up. So, I'll just assume it is a cultural difference and rewrite this message accordingly so you may completely understand what I am saying. Hopefully this will clear up any misunderstandings you may have about the position of this list. Thanks. - --- SNIP --- *COUGH* BULP00! IT IZ ALWAYZ THE NEWBIE. ALWAYZ. THAT CUMZ 1N + THINKZ THAT THE NEWEST + L8ST + GRE8ST IZ /BETTUR/ THAN THE REST BECAUSE IT IZ NEWEST. WHEN U CAN ADDREZ AL MY PO1NTZ MAYBE UZ OLD FOGIEZ WIL PAY ATTENSHUN 2 U. THAT W1L SHOW THAT UVE ACTUALY THOUGHT 1T OUT 1NSTEAD UV DEFAULT 2 WHAT IZ NEW + WHAT URE USED 2. BTW. 1 NOTICED THAT URE US1NG "U" 2 DENOTE THE PRONOUN "U"! NOW. 1M NOT 1 2 CRIT1CIZE ANOTHUR D00DZ SPELING SINCE MY IZ NOT THE GRE8ST WHEN OUTSIDE A SPEL CHECKUR BACKING ME UP. SO. 1L JUST ASSUME IT IZ A CULTURAL DIFFURENCE + RURITE THIZ MESSAGE ACCORD1NGLY SO U MAY COMPLETELY UNDURSTAND WHAT 1 AM SAYING. HOPEFULY TH1Z W1L CLEAR UP ANY MISUNDURSTANDINGZ U MAY HAVE ABOUT THE POS1SHUN UV TH1Z LIST! THANKZ! - --- SNIP --- - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZRCZnpf7K2LbpnFEQKJcwCgpLDmuovdR0+W49659KYkGIBMKbYAnR8u z93JtN5t2RB8eQTrecHW4GKY =zaQU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Wednesday, June 28, 2000 at 8:37 PM or thereabouts, starc wrote the following about why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?: starc As you see, I wasn´t trying to impose a change...instead I starc asked a question, why aren´t things being different, and what I starc think would be better. I dont think it´s wrong to ask a starc question. If u read the subject of my original mail u will see starc that its also formulated as a question. First of all, I don't think anyone has discriminated against you, merely pointed out the problems (we perceive) with what you proposed, as well as the generally-accepted wisdom of not making your first post(s) to a group of any kind one in which you point out their perceived inadequacies. To be accurate about it, though you can call statements ending in a question mark mere questions, when they disparage the current state of things, referring to them as antiquated, stone-age, inefficient, etc., you've done a lot more than ask a question. CM Another disadvantage of Usenet newsgroups is the spam that CM follows posts there, with the attendant loss of privacy and/or CM the need to institute anti-spam measures with return addresses, CM etc. starc This in fact was the only disadvantage u pointed out. Actually, I pointed out more than that. Perhaps a re-reading is in order, either of my post or other folks' responses, as they pointed out the same things, and more. starc Hmm...u admit urself that my suggestions wheren´t bad at all. Yes, I did, but only out of politeness and in an attempt to temper the post somewhat. I personally didn't like them or feel them appropriate, but I allow for the possibility that you, and maybe others, would feel differently. starc So I don´t understand why u are critisizing me. Just cuz Im starc new? Would my posting be more valuable if I had stuck a while starc around here? Your post wasn't necessarily valueless because you are new, but it's hard to argue that the probability of value and relevance increase with one's familiarity with both the subject matter at hand and the fellow listmembers and, as you said, you are new here. starc And...by the way...new people are sometimes better enabled to starc see things that are wrong...cuz the older users are already starc familiar with it, they got used to the system and to those starc things that are wrong. This can be quite true, of course ... however, one does not put their best foot forward by criticizing the status quo when one has just arrived. CM Nothing personal ... just good netiquette, which I know you're CM familiar with being so at ease on Usenet. starc Yeah...Im also familiar with people like u, who think that starc their main task is to point their fingers onto other people... Once again, if you stick around here long enough to get to know people, perhaps listening and watching along the way, you may have a more solid foundation from which to stand and make criticisms against both the program, its method of discussion, and the people surrounding you. But, I persist in feeling that you cannot make more than a stab at it as a self--professed new arrival. Again, I think it might be helpful to re-read my original post ... I think you put a lot more in there than was actually written or intended. Chuck -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chuck Mattsen[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.uswest.net/~mattsen =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Random Thought/Quote for this Message: The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ooook, maybe I wrote the last message wrong. Wednesday, June 28, 2000, 7:56:40 PM, starc wrote: Hmm...sorry..but u r the one writing BULLPOO. As I already pointed out in another email, I never thought that my suggestion was better. Really? You mean you didn't write this line? - --- SNIP --- Any of those too solutions would be better, more effective, etc... - --- SNIP --- I do believe that even the non-native English speakers of the list (and there are plenty) would most likely confirm that the above, written by you at Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:50:14 -0300 in message [EMAIL PROTECTED] would seem to indicate that you do, in fact, believe that newsgroups and/or webboards would be better. That is generally what "would be better" and "more effective" means. If you like I can go to www.m-w.com, look up each word and describe to you in detail why those words, in that order, in the context given does indeed give the impression you were stating they were better. That would be a bit pedantic, however. I just formulated it as a question. No, you made a statement, cited above. Please check your sent folder if you're unsure. This would be a good time on how to use the search function in conjunction with the MSGID cited. Most replies I received where flames. No. So far there haven't been any flames. The closest that came to it was my message. They have been quite reasoned. In fact, it is the person who brings in a new idea of any sort who is always criticized by the mass. Your idea isn't new. It has been presented, thought about and rejected several times. I'm used to it. That's nice. It has been this way since the time I was in school. It is my impression that this sentence should be in the present tense, not the past tense. I wonder though, why I was the one who always had the better grades LOL(laugh out loud). We're aware of what LOL stands for, thank you. Either use the abbreviation or write it out, not both. As for better grades, you'll pardon me if my skepticism is high. And I don't think that the newest is always better(by the way I don't read newsgroups on a regular basis). That's nice. It's just the question to use the right tools for the right things. I don't think a single soul here would disagree with that. Email wasn't intended for making a discussion group. Quite the contrary, one of the expressed uses of email per RFC822 which was published in 1982 is for discussion lists. In fact it is how to denote that use that is a particular point of contention between many mailing list administrators. From section 4.4.3 of RFC822 regarding the REPLY-TO header: "A somewhat different use may be of some help to "text message teleconferencing" groups equipped with automatic distribution services: include the address of that service in the "Reply- To" field of all messages submitted to the teleconference; then participants can "reply" to conference submissions to guarantee the correct distribution of any submission of their own. " Please note that newsgroup headers must be RFC822 compliant. This is important to realized because for that requirement to be made newsgroups would have to come /after/ email. That's what newsgroups where made for. Correct. That does not, however, automatically invalidated the myriad of email discussion lists. Generally newsgroups are designed for a larger readership and a broadcast medium. They are more informal than mailing lists in tone and nature. There is a place for both. In general a mailing list is for a smaller group of people who will discuss matters with one another over a period of months or years and do not want a plethora of lookieloos popping in from time to time voicing uneducated opinions about matters they know nothing of. So why don't use them? That was the way I thought about the question. No, it was the statement we took issue of. Well you posted an earlier answer explaining the reasons why we stick to a mailing list. That I did. Whether or not you read them and understood them is a matter of private debate at the moment. Until now it was the only answer that didn't flame me right away. No, it was one of several. I have learned something new. We have yet to see that new knowledge put to use, however. I don't understand why you suddenly start flaming me. We have not. All those flames really don't contribute to this list, and are mainly a means for some people to get rid of their frustrations or somehow feel important by putting down others. I'm sure that is the case. You will be duly notified when the flaming begins. Until that time, trust me, you've not been flamed. Newsreaders aren't new, www-boards aren't new, and in fact I'm not a regular user of any of those. Newsreaders aren't new. However, they aren't older than email or the use of email
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Friday, August 11, 2000, 12:35:45 PM, Mark wrote: TIT(This is true). Perhaps the definitive answer to the original question would be reached if such a discussion group was created. No. Then, those that preferred the newsgroup approach could use that and those that prefer the email apporach could use that. Eventually a winner would probably emerge... (I'm guessing here but!) so, if anyone wants to volunteer to create a discussion list, we'll soon see which method serves the greater-group the best... Bad idea. Then you have two forums and if people want to keep up with what is going on they will need to read both. Webboards aren't worth looking at since they are so primitive it isn't even cute. Anyone who is marginally competent with an email client, which I am assuming is anyone who makes regular use of TB!, would be frustrated with such forums. Newsgroups really don't offer any benefit over mailing lists on such a small scale while providing a large vulnerability to spam /if/ it is carried on the backbone systems. Of course you open a whole can of worms. Do the users have news readers (we know they have an email client)? Do they have access to a server with the newsgroup (propagation is not a guarenteed thing)? Does their news server, if it has the group, have a complete feed of the group? Do we gateway from the email list to the newsgroup? Do we run a private news server to bypass spam and propagation issues? If so, how do we support that news server and all readers and people that want to access it. Given that we know they have an email client and know what that client can do it is only logical the primary, and indeed, unless the user base baloons, only support forum should be an email list. - -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. - ---+- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5i iQA/AwUBOZRZMXpf7K2LbpnFEQLUiwCaA96AQvykvhOB3e9j6pVQUa7s59gAnR1m Pnu4dS9YBz0T4USNBB0zQGDa =ZME/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
In Reference to "why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?" From Steve Lamb: " S Given that we know they have an email client and know what that client can S do it is only logical the primary, and indeed, unless the user base baloons, S only support forum should be an email list. Shall we consider this your closing statement counselor? ;-) - Nick -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:46:30 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: All those flames really don't contribute to this list, and are mainly a means for some people to get rid of their frustrations or somehow feel important by putting down others. SL I'm sure that is the case. You will be duly notified when the flaming SL begins. Until that time, trust me, you've not been flamed. We need a moderator here. ANYONE?!! This discussion is getting out of hand and has gone way beyond it's usefulness. -- -=A. Curtis Martin=- [TB! v1.46 Beta/3 «» Win2k Pro SP1] PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey "Press any key... no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE! " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Steve, On 11 August 2000 at 12:46:30 GMT -0700 (which was 20:46 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?": SL Ooook, maybe I wrote the last message wrong. Let's leave this to the moderators. Please do not respond to starc any further on this topic - anyone. - -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBOZRfnTnkJKuSnc2gEQKrkACglBviC5+mrR8S12VE/dNgS/VgyNoAmwUb 0x5L2XYICAfvD5oKhI7M4Ys9 =xnCy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Wednesday, June 28, 2000 at 10:28 PM or thereabouts, starc wrote the following about why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?: starc Thanks for agreeing with me! I must've missed that one. ;-) starc Yes, I'm new, so what? You want me to keep my mouth shut? No I starc won't. I will tell you my opinion, right from the beginning, starc and do you know what? I don't care about people like you that starc think I have to earn the right to make criticism by staying starc here a while. No, I don't have to earn that right! And I'm starc telling that to all of you older users that think that they can starc bash me just because I'm a newbie. This group is free and starc everyone can say his opinion. I'm not limited to asking starc questions just because I'm new. Yes, I can critisize, why not? Now that you admit that you've been critical rather than just asking questions -- thank you for that -- I have to attempt to state, once again and hopefully more clearly, that no one is objecting to your posting, your opinions, your right to say/think anything ... what is being objected to is the *way* it's being said (again and again), followed by the natural bristling that occurs when people are accused of flaming when they've done nothing even remotely resembling same. Have you discovered the kill filters yet? I'm about to practice with mine, and you're free to do the same. :-) Chuck -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chuck Mattsen[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.uswest.net/~mattsen =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Random Thought/Quote for this Message: Even the dullest candle burns brighter in the dark. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Friday, August 11, 2000 at 3:18 PM or thereabouts, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote the following about why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?: Marck Let's leave this to the moderators. Please do not respond to Marck starc any further on this topic - anyone. FYI, one's on it's way (went while this one was coming in, apparently), but was the last. Thanks. Chuck -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chuck Mattsen[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.uswest.net/~mattsen =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Random Thought/Quote for this Message: The universe is very BIG. Believe me. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
Hello Steve, Friday, August 11, 2000, 4:46:30 PM, you wrote: SL Really? You mean you didn't write this line? SL - --- SNIP --- SL Any of those too solutions would be better, more effective, SL etc... SL - --- SNIP --- Well...I think I need to explain something here. You have to understand the above statement in the context. It was in the context of that email I've send. I wanted to express an opinion in that line (that newsgroup would be better for this discussion list). I didn't intend to say that my opinion was the best possible solution. There is a difference in expressing an opinion(like I did) or claiming to have the best possible solution(which I did not). Now if u simply take my statement out of the context, it may lead to misinterpretations. So I think it was kind of unfair from ur part to just take that single statement and use it against me. Read my email as a whole. SL Your idea isn't new. It has been presented, thought about and rejected SL several times. Well, so it seems that others have also had this quite reasonable thought. It has been this way since the time I was in school. SL It is my impression that this sentence should be in the present tense, not SL the past tense. You said no flames? Well this seems to be quite a personal attack. Please talk about my ideas, this is not a discussion about my person. I wonder though, why I was the one who always had the better grades LOL(laugh out loud). SL We're aware of what LOL stands for, thank you. Either use the SL abbreviation or write it out, not both. As for better grades, you'll pardon SL me if my skepticism is high. Again, you need to attack the person. This is a common characteristic of people who can't really argue. They start to attack the other person, instead of his arguments. Why? Perhaps because my arguments are quite good? I think this is a kind of unfair tactic you know? That's what newsgroups where made for. SL Correct. That does not, however, automatically invalidated the myriad of SL email discussion lists. Generally newsgroups are designed for a larger SL readership and a broadcast medium. They are more informal than mailing lists SL in tone and nature. There is a place for both. In general a mailing list is SL for a smaller group of people who will discuss matters with one another over a SL period of months or years and do not want a plethora of lookieloos popping in SL from time to time voicing uneducated opinions about matters they know nothing SL of. Sounds a little elitist to me. Thanks for welcoming me so nicely in this discussion list -- Best regards, starcmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
Hello Steve, Friday, August 11, 2000, 6:13:38 pm, you wrote: SL Your ideas are being rejected because they have been brought up, SL discussed, and then rejected before you were even here. SL It has and that fact has been stated to you. Check the archives if you SL think we're lying. If I recall correctly it was about 5 months ago that we SL had the "newsgroup, web forum" discussion last. So... that does not mean they are not relevant to the current marketplace or worth revisiting. I like newsgroups and I like these groups. If you do not like newsgroups then fine; Do not participate. Let the folks who do want to discuss the issue do so. -- Best regards, Marcmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
Hi starc, This subject title doesn't give you a very good "first impressions" rating. But I don't believe in that anyway, as I was a pain when I first joined myself (still am in a few ways, but I try). Nobody seems to be discriminating you, but it's a widely based opinion that mailing lists are far easier to manage than newsgroups, and have less spam. This is the view on all mailing lists I participate in, and though it took me a short while to understand, it makes a lot of sense now. There are a ton of factors that make mailing lists better. Please take the time to look at the differences closely, and understand that there are some people who strongly wish to defend the mailing list technique. May I also suggest you don't use "cuz" and "u" rather than "because" and "you". I'm not having a go here, so please don't be offended. I've been through all the documents about getting along with people on mailing lists (which greatly reduces your chances of getting into flame wars and/or getting banned) and taking the effort to write proper English is a large factor. Tempting as it is to type "u", it's seen as ignorant by some people to spend less effort on the keyboard to save a couple of milliseconds typing a full word. Acronyms might be like this, but they have been around for so long I think they are accepted IMHO ;) You are quite right to ask a question, but you need to be prepared for the answers - all public discussion groups need members with thick skin. If it's highly debatable, people will debate highly ^_^ I'll snip the quotes - I think we get the gist. If you can handle the heat of online discussions, please do so. However, I suspect you will need to learn to tolerate those with a different opinion who may express it harshly. -- Deryk Lister || ICQ 25869912 || www.deryk.co.uk "..." -- Cid, after feeding him a fish PGP: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=Retr%20PGP%20Key Any of my keys _under_ 3072 bit (usually on keyservers) don't work. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
This message: 12/08/2000 00:29 GMT. Hello TBUDL, On 29 June 2000 at 03:04:02 GMT -0300 (which was 07:04 where I live) starc ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) typed: s Friday, August 11, 2000, 5:45:33 PM, you wrote: CM posting, your opinions, your right to say/think anything ... what is CM being objected to is the *way* it's being said (again and again), s Well, since some people have already snipped some statements of my s original email I will do the same in my defense: No, this is not an reply to Starc. I'm just curious to know why the above message not only appeared in my TBUDL folder but also 19 copies of it appeared in my inbox at the same time? Did this happen to anyone else and if so were all the copies dated 29th June? Just for the record, I'm with Steve on this one. If I had to use a newsreader for reading the TBUDL, TBBETA and TBOT lists then I wouldn't need to use TB! at all. 99.5% of my email comes from these three lists as well as a few other egroups. I don't get enough personal mail to warrant the use of such a powerful email client. (All together... Ah!) If it was all transferred to a newsgroup I'd need to abandon TB altogether and subscribe to a Gravity newsgroup. -- _ Best regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony. Using The Bat! 1.46 Beta/3 S/N A27A5E65 Windows 98 4.10 Build A Request PGP key mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPKeyRequest -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
On Friday, August 11, 2000 at 6:44 PM or thereabouts, Tony Boom wrote the following about why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?: Tony I'm just curious to know why the above message not only appeared Tony in my TBUDL folder but also 19 copies of it appeared in my inbox Tony at the same time? I only received the message you referenced once; though there were certainly a number of other replies under the same subject heading, I don't recall seeing any duplication at all. Tony Did this happen to anyone else and if so were all the copies Tony dated 29th June? All of the posts from one of the individuals involved showed either a 6/28 or 6/29 date (I believe that has since been corrected). On a related noted, I've been receiving the TUBDL mail in a rather haphazard order for the past 12-24 hours or so ... I've been receiving replies to original posts that only come through later, sometimes much (hours) later. Chuck -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chuck Mattsen[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.users.uswest.net/~mattsen =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Random Thought/Quote for this Message: A gentleman can disagree without being disagreeable. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: why do u discriminate me just cuz Im new to this list?
First, let me say that I'm glad that you dropped the "u" and "r" and assorted "o-day 133+" (that's "zero-day elite" translated from wannabe hacker language for someone who gets warez on the day a title is released, so they're really cool) speech, since it'll generally get you pegged, on this list anyway, as someone who isn't really worth listening to. Now that you've joined the mainstream writing patterns, I have one more thing to pop on ya. s Well...what is happening here in fact is the following: some users s that are around here a longer time feel that they somehow own this s group and make them self to authorities which they aren't. Not exactly true, although I can see how perception leads to that. However, the people that quickly and brusquely asserted "no, that's not good" to webboards and newsgroups do pretty well speak for the list in general in that way since, as has been pointed out, these topics have been discussed in the past, and more than once at that. My point is that these people are not acting as their opinions are "the truth" regardless of how the individuals typically react, but rather they are pointing out what has been decided, by the active members of the list, in the past. s You are no moderator, or whatever here, so why don't you just be s quiet or make real posts which some constructive information. I could say the same back to you, you aren't the moderator, who are you to make implementation decisions on the discussion list? s Yes, I'm new, so what? You want me to keep my mouth shut? No I won't. Nobody told you to shut up but rather gave you information informing you on why they thought your ideas were both stale and uninteresting. s I will tell you my opinion, right from the beginning, and do you know s what? I don't care about people like you that think I have to earn the s right to make criticism by staying here a while. Umm, you're not exactly correct since the moderators can unsubscribe you from the list at any time whatsoever. s No, I don't have to earn that right! And I'm telling that to all of s you older users that think that they can bash me just because I'm a s newbie. This group is free and everyone can say his opinion. I'm s not limited to asking questions just because I'm new. Yes, I can s critisize, why not? Typical societal convention (aka Usenet, mail-lists, etc.) suggests that you wait 30 days before posting ANYTHING. Then you get a handle on what the discussion group is all about, you get a pointer to the direction that the community is going, etc. Now obviously, since this is a help list, one doesn't want to have to read it 30 days before solving some nagging problem with the software. However, oftentimes the question will come up anyway in that 30 days, so any given post is really worthless since the "FAQ"s are asked frequently enough so that they will be repeated more than once a month. Regardless, you weren't asking a newbie question but rather suggesting that there are better ways to do what we're doing and what we're happy with. To say that a parishoner can go to a new church and start demanding that the preacher speak a different language is ridiculous; only through some observation can you really make that determination. s After all I've used other email programs and have some Internet s experience. And just to add another information about newsgroups. s If newsreading is that bad, why will a newsreader be added to the s next version of the bat? Yay, most of us have used other email programs, and a lot of us have a lot more than some Internet experience. I've been sending email and reading the news since 1990, so I can tell you honestly what my opinion is and why. Adding a newsreader to TB! is a big waste of time and energy, IMO. However, for some reason RIT wants to make LookOutPlus or something, so I guess we'll just sit by and watch the software get more and more diversified and less and less suited to any particular task... :( Personally, I would like TB to get better thread management and allow us to do more newsreader-esque things to deal with mailing lists. As it is, I have to wade through loads of crap that I don't want to deal with simply because there's no straight forward way to ignore a thread. That coupled with the fact that you can thread by references or subject, but not some hybrid of both, makes some mailing lists nearly unreadable to me. :( I vote against WWWboard for two reasons: you can't access the info without a net connection and the software generally sucks anyway. I'm anti-usenet group because I check it so infrequently and some things I just like to keep up on. However, if the TBUDL were accessed via NNTP I tell you it'd be a lot easier to read, since Agent actually has the capability to deal with the volume of mail that comes in without actually requiring you to do a lot of work... -tom! -- Bah, ridiculous thing. -- -- View the
