Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
this thread has wandered... nevertheless, i upgraded my wife's ipod with skull candy buds for $60 and she couldn't be happier (about the buds). On May 6, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Brian Mathis wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Luke S Crawford l...@prgmr.com wrote: I've got earplugs and I offer 'em to everyone but nobody uses them. Not that I blame them, I don't use them myself, and I probably do 90% of the colo monkey work by myself. The other day at the hardware store I noticed noise dampening headphones; they looked like the enclosed ear protectors and claimed 27Dbi protection, but they had a line in where you could plug in your MP3 player. I should give something like that a go. There are a lot of in-ear headphones that work just as well. I'm not talking about the ridiculous Bose digital noise canceling ones.. just regular $20-$30 ones. They work great. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/ -- Andrew Hume (best - Telework) +1 732-886-1886 and...@research.att.com (Work) +1 973-360-8651 ATT Labs - Research; member of USENIX and LOPSA ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:04 AM, sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: On Wed, May 5, 2010 20:57, Matt Lawrence wrote: I keep a set of hearing protectors in the glovebox of my car and several sets of foam earplugs in my notebook bag. Yeah, a bit off topic, but still important. I recommend stocking up on EAR brand earplugs whenever Harbor Freight has them on sale. Protect your hearing while you are young, tintinnitus at my age is annoying. OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. Skylar This is true, but it doesn't help you if you are colocating at a data center. Also, you need to decide if it's politically wise to throw around OSHA regulations at work when a box of ear plugs at the drug store is $3 (hint: it's not wise. If you really care just go buy some ear plugs). Those regulations are meant for people who are in such an environment all day long (like if you work at an airport). You need to know how to pick your battles. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Doug Hughes d...@will.to writes: If you've got a decent, embedded KVM you can do a lot of things that you simply cannot do with a serial or even in front of the machine including: * Viewing stats from FRUs like fan and CPU temperatures * Forwarding alarms from same into your event management system * multiple levels of permission for accessing different components Yes, those things can be handy if dmidecode or lmstats doesn't give you that info when the box is running. * capabilities for upgrading BIOS and or BMC when it needs it * ability to access a virtual CD drive either from an ISO image on your These things can be done via pxe. * ability to see graphical things that might show up on the console (possibly more important if your box is windows - based) This is very important, sometimes, and if you need graphics out of band, there is no substitute for KVM over IP. What you don't get from a serial console that you do get from sitting in front of the machine. * reset/power cycle of machine Well, you /need/ metering PDUs, right? switchable PDUs are not that much more expensive than metering PDUs and they solve that problem. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Luke S Crawford l...@prgmr.com wrote: I've got earplugs and I offer 'em to everyone but nobody uses them. Not that I blame them, I don't use them myself, and I probably do 90% of the colo monkey work by myself. The other day at the hardware store I noticed noise dampening headphones; they looked like the enclosed ear protectors and claimed 27Dbi protection, but they had a line in where you could plug in your MP3 player. I should give something like that a go. There are a lot of in-ear headphones that work just as well. I'm not talking about the ridiculous Bose digital noise canceling ones.. just regular $20-$30 ones. They work great. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Thu, May 6, 2010 07:09, Brian Mathis wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:04 AM, sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: On Wed, May 5, 2010 20:57, Matt Lawrence wrote: I keep a set of hearing protectors in the glovebox of my car and several sets of foam earplugs in my notebook bag. Yeah, a bit off topic, but still important. I recommend stocking up on EAR brand earplugs whenever Harbor Freight has them on sale. Protect your hearing while you are young, tintinnitus at my age is annoying. OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. Skylar This is true, but it doesn't help you if you are colocating at a data center. Also, you need to decide if it's politically wise to throw around OSHA regulations at work when a box of ear plugs at the drug store is $3 (hint: it's not wise. If you really care just go buy some ear plugs). Those regulations are meant for people who are in such an environment all day long (like if you work at an airport). You need to know how to pick your battles. While it is trivial to buy protection of your own for the job, I would argue that it's better to remind your employer that it is legally obligated to protect its workers, and that you're aware that you have those protections. That way you'll be on better footing to resist even more serious hazards like lifting and confined space work. Even if the employer doesn't do it for you, the incentive of not having a bunch of worker's comp claims on its record ought to be enough. Skylar ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Luke S Crawford wrote: Doug Hughes d...@will.to writes: If you've got a decent, embedded KVM you can do a lot of things that you simply cannot do with a serial or even in front of the machine including: * Viewing stats from FRUs like fan and CPU temperatures * Forwarding alarms from same into your event management system * multiple levels of permission for accessing different components Yes, those things can be handy if dmidecode or lmstats doesn't give you that info when the box is running. Not if the machine won't boot or is otherwise inaccessible. * capabilities for upgrading BIOS and or BMC when it needs it * ability to access a virtual CD drive either from an ISO image on your These things can be done via pxe. only if the thing you are doing has been converted to be PXE friendly. There are a lot of things out there where this is extremely difficult to do whereas just clicking a few buttons in the KVM makes it work. You don't have to go through any extra steps for any ISO image in this way. It has been handy for us on a number of occassions where PXE was going to take hours of mucking around to make it work. * ability to see graphical things that might show up on the console (possibly more important if your box is windows - based) This is very important, sometimes, and if you need graphics out of band, there is no substitute for KVM over IP. What you don't get from a serial console that you do get from sitting in front of the machine. * reset/power cycle of machine Well, you /need/ metering PDUs, right? switchable PDUs are not that much more expensive than metering PDUs and they solve that problem. We have the servertech smart pdu with the aggregate phase metering at 60A in a lot of places. a 60A switched PDU is a pretty expensive proposition... (are they available? They certainly aren't common. There might be a relatively new product in this space. I haven't checked in a couple of months) ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Luke S Crawford wrote: sky...@cs.earlham.edu writes: OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. I've got earplugs and I offer 'em to everyone but nobody uses them. Not that I blame them, I don't use them myself, and I probably do 90% of the colo monkey work by myself. The other day at the hardware store I noticed noise dampening headphones; they looked like the enclosed ear protectors and claimed 27Dbi protection, but they had a line in where you could plug in your MP3 player. I should give something like that a go. I love my Bose noise canceling headphones. Flip the power on, and you can hear the noisiest frequencies damping out. It doesn't totally eliminate everything, but I can no longer tell whether the air conditioner is on or not. Also, I've had tinnitus for years, so even if it was totally silent, I wouldn't be able to tell. Classical music sure beats 4 sun servers, a disk array, an air conditioner, and 2 Macs, all within 6 feet of me. -- --- Chris Hoogendyk - O__ Systems Administrator c/ /'_ --- Biology Geology Departments (*) \(*) -- 140 Morrill Science Center ~~ - University of Massachusetts, Amherst hoogen...@bio.umass.edu --- Erdös 4 ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On 5/6/10 12:57 PM, Tom Perrine wrote: sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. Skylar Our facilities dept put these in all our datacenters, and (usually) keeps them well-stocked: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5U603?Pid=search I carry these (3M Tri-Flange Reusable Corded Earplugs): http://www.lowes.com/pd_74540-98-90586-80025_4294856571_4294937087?productId=3102561 in my pocket everywhere I go. They're great for lawn mowing and fire drills, too. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 07:09, Brian Mathis wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:04 AM, sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: On Wed, May 5, 2010 20:57, Matt Lawrence wrote: I keep a set of hearing protectors in the glovebox of my car and several sets of foam earplugs in my notebook bag. Yeah, a bit off topic, but still important. I recommend stocking up on EAR brand earplugs whenever Harbor Freight has them on sale. Protect your hearing while you are young, tintinnitus at my age is annoying. OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. This is true, but it doesn't help you if you are colocating at a data center. Also, you need to decide if it's politically wise to throw around OSHA regulations at work when a box of ear plugs at the drug store is $3 (hint: it's not wise. If you really care just go buy some ear plugs). Those regulations are meant for people who are in such an environment all day long (like if you work at an airport). You need to know how to pick your battles. While it is trivial to buy protection of your own for the job, I would argue that it's better to remind your employer that it is legally obligated to protect its workers, and that you're aware that you have those protections. That way you'll be on better footing to resist even more serious hazards like lifting and confined space work. Even if the employer doesn't do it for you, the incentive of not having a bunch of worker's comp claims on its record ought to be enough. As has been said already, it's best to save adversarial relationships in your workplace for when it really matters. Adversarial attitudes cut both ways. Start making legalistic statements at your employers, and they could start laying down legal restrictions on your behavior and cutting back on your discretion. They may come around with a document saying that employees at this level cannot do any of the following things (long list) without prior approval from higher up. etc. And, it could end up affecting subsequent evaluations and pay raises. Seen it happen more than once. Happily, not to me. Once it became so uncomfortable that it ended in a layoff. Union and company lawyers were both involved, but the employee was out the door. If you really want to bring it up, I would bring it up in a more friendly manner. Express your concern about the level of noise and ask if it is possible to get some hearing protection. Keep it congenial and cooperative, not confrontational. (Quoting OSHA regs is confrontational unless it just happens to come up in the course of conversation.) The job ads for network people in the local OIT (not my department) list physical requirements for the job, such as needs to be able to lift 70lbs and carry it . . ., etc., so that it's clear whoever is hired is expected to be able to lift equipment. I'm making up the specific number, because I don't happen to have one of their ads handy. As far as lifting is concerned, every server box I have ever seen gives warnings and has pictures of two people lifting the box together, bent from the knees, with backs straight. Again, if it comes up, ask for help. Present a friendly, cooperative attitude, and it is more likely to be reciprocated. -- --- Chris Hoogendyk - O__ Systems Administrator c/ /'_ --- Biology Geology Departments (*) \(*) -- 140 Morrill Science Center ~~ - University of Massachusetts, Amherst hoogen...@bio.umass.edu --- Erdös 4 ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Seeing that nobody else (that I noticed) has already mentioned it, I thought I'd say that Supermicro newer boxes have really nice KVM. The slightly older generation (harpertown/clovertown, etc.) have the Raritan AOC SIM-1U KVM sticks that are from raritan (same used in older rackable and intel whitebox servers). I know I've mentioned these before at least twice on the list, so I won't belabor it here. The newer ones are roughly the same but are integrated onboard and change a bit for the Nehalem and Shanghai/Istanbul processor series. They lack a few of the features (like mount virtual media off an SMB share), but work fine. You can use SOL or use the javascript KVM console in a pinch. It works with any browser. The FRU management is decent, the access controls are very good and include LDAP and RADIUS options for granularity of access control. They have had some issues with firmware and the IPMI becoming unreachable, but our VAR has worked with Supermicro and we've got those resolved. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On 5/6/2010 11:05 AM, Chris Hoogendyk wrote: sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 07:09, Brian Mathis wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:04 AM, sky...@cs.earlham.edu wrote: On Wed, May 5, 2010 20:57, Matt Lawrence wrote: I keep a set of hearing protectors in the glovebox of my car and several sets of foam earplugs in my notebook bag. Yeah, a bit off topic, but still important. I recommend stocking up on EAR brand earplugs whenever Harbor Freight has them on sale. Protect your hearing while you are young, tintinnitus at my age is annoying. OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. This is true, but it doesn't help you if you are colocating at a data center. Also, you need to decide if it's politically wise to throw around OSHA regulations at work when a box of ear plugs at the drug store is $3 (hint: it's not wise. If you really care just go buy some ear plugs). Those regulations are meant for people who are in such an environment all day long (like if you work at an airport). You need to know how to pick your battles. While it is trivial to buy protection of your own for the job, I would argue that it's better to remind your employer that it is legally obligated to protect its workers, and that you're aware that you have those protections. That way you'll be on better footing to resist even more serious hazards like lifting and confined space work. Even if the employer doesn't do it for you, the incentive of not having a bunch of worker's comp claims on its record ought to be enough. As has been said already, it's best to save adversarial relationships in your workplace for when it really matters. Adversarial attitudes cut both ways. Start making legalistic statements at your employers, and they could start laying down legal restrictions on your behavior and cutting back on your discretion. They may come around with a document saying that employees at this level cannot do any of the following things (long list) without prior approval from higher up. etc. And, it could end up affecting subsequent evaluations and pay raises. Seen it happen more than once. Happily, not to me. Once it became so uncomfortable that it ended in a layoff. Union and company lawyers were both involved, but the employee was out the door. If you really want to bring it up, I would bring it up in a more friendly manner. Express your concern about the level of noise and ask if it is possible to get some hearing protection. Keep it congenial and cooperative, not confrontational. (Quoting OSHA regs is confrontational unless it just happens to come up in the course of conversation.) Indeed - I wrote unclearly as I was presenting legal confrontation as a last resort. At the same time, I've always felt comfortable bringing up work condition requirements and have always managed to do so in a cooperative way. After all, we as sysadmins have an obligation to make management aware of legal computing requirements (records retention, disaster requirements, etc.), and I think this carries over to a responsibility to inform people of non-computing regulatory requirements of our jobs. In my experience management often isn't even aware of the unsafe work conditions and is glad that the information is brought to their attention. In this case, they might not be aware of the noise in the server room (I know I spend more time in the server room than my boss), or even that they have an obligation to protect their workers in the room (fortunately my boss does, but I know not all do). You can point out that by spending a few bucks and passing out ear plugs or muffs they can save on insurance and legal costs, and increase worker comfort at the same time. The job ads for network people in the local OIT (not my department) list physical requirements for the job, such as needs to be able to lift 70lbs and carry it . . ., etc., so that it's clear whoever is hired is expected to be able to lift equipment. I'm making up the specific number, because I don't happen to have one of their ads handy. As far as lifting is concerned, every server box I have ever seen gives warnings and has pictures of two people lifting the box together, bent from the knees, with backs straight. Again, if it comes up, ask for help. Present a friendly, cooperative attitude, and it is more likely to be reciprocated. The diagrams are helpful, but I've seen some diagrams that seem to assume that humans are two-dimensional creatures... They might also not be tailored to specific workplace requirements. For example, at $WORK we're not permitted to lift individually more than 40lbs and I've seen two-person diagrams go up to 150lbs units. After a few months of struggling with heavy
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
- Serial access: I am running both Dell PE2950 and R710s. They all have acceptable serial redirection built into the BIOS, though you need to configure it. This is only enough to get you into the BIOS screens though. You need to configure GRUB, the Linux kernel, and a getty to run on the serial line. That's just the way it is. In reality you will almost never be using this method of access (use ssh + sudo). - Remote console access: This is handled on PC Servers by using integrated remote console cards like a DRAC, and/or an external IP-based KVM. I have both of these. As you probably know, once you get Linux up and running you don't need console access very often, so you'll only need these in an emergency. They perform acceptably when you need them, but you won't want to (or need to) use them every day. DRACs are quite reliable and I have not really seen issues with them. I have seen serial redirection/SSH listed in the features for the DRAC, but have not set it up myself. I think that will still only get you to the BIOS though. - Remote power switch: You need this in case you need to forcefully power cycle the machine. Most remote access cards (like DRAC) have the ability to power the server built-in, but you never know if the DRAC itself will need a power-cycle. This happens rarely and I've only seen it once when we were testing, but it's a possibility. Also useful for other equipment that doesn't have built-in power controls. While the DRACs on my 2650's are old (which may excuse them), I find they're horrible compared to my HP iLo's. They're quite slow. Sometimes the DRACs serial and video redirect become read-only. I've never figured what causes it. They hang more often, though I can't recall off hand I'm sure there's a way to reboot them without pulling power. Except for HP's low end servers, the basic ilo (LO100i) I've fond to be almost useless. I needed a incredible specific java version to get it working and it was still flakey. I hope they have some firmware updates to fix them. Obviously I'm talking Dell here, as that's what I know. The only other vendor I've used is HP, but they got on my nerves when they started charging piecemeal license fees for each feature you wanted to use in the iLO (such as access to a graphical console window is an extra fee on top of access to a text console window). Yes, I was very surprised when my new servers had less features than my old ones. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Hugh Brown wrote: Hi everyone -- with all the fun that Sun/Oracle is having these days, I'm starting to reconsider favourite hardware vendors. (I only have one rose to give away...) I'm looking for advice on ILOMs, and in particular console access/Serial-Over-LAN. Background: I work at a small university department, with our server room across the street. Almost everything we run is Linux or some BSD. Mama raised me right, so remote consoles are very, very important to me. I've had very good experience with Sun hardware. The ILOMs work out of the box, getting a serial console on the machine is very easy (SSH in, run start /SP/console), and they work nearly flawlessly. The few times I've had problems with them, I've been able to reset the ILOMs just fine. By contrast, my experience with Dell ILOMs has been irritating: * Console redirection depends on having eight different settings just right * The ILOMs sometimes drop off the network and stop responding for no apparent reason; I haven't figured out a way to reset the ILOM w/o actually pulling out all the power to the server * Identical servers purchased at the same time have different ILOM firmware revisions, causing console redirection to work on only some of them I'm hoping someone can point me to another vendor (HP, IBM...anyone else?) for x86 servers with ILOMs that: * are available by SSH * are reliable * allow console redirection either over SSH or by Serial-over-LAN/IPMI command-line tools, including BIOS screens. * plus the usual IPMI stuff (check FRUs, SNMP, power cycle, etc) Bonus points for being less expensive than Sun and having offices/resellers in Canada. Anyone? ILOM, ALOM, iLo, DRAC, whatever. The concept is what matters. Sun has been doing this for a long time and has gotten it down pretty well. Basically, the ILOM is the software interface. The hardware is the SP or Service Processor, which lives on a card of its own, separate from the main system or SYS. On my T5220's, the SP is actually running Linux on a PowerPC. When you log in to it, you get a shell which is the ILOM script, and interrupts are locked out so you can't get to a Linux command prompt. Sun service can come up with passwords that get them to the Linux, and I think they've rigged some sort of one-time password system in the latest firmware releases. The key advantage of Sun's ILOM is that the SP is tightly integrated with the SYS and has direct connections to sensors and indicators on the main system. It is the SP that controls the fault lights on the front of the machine. The SP is always on, so as soon as you plug the machine in the SP powers up and indicator lights activate. It controls the startup of the main system, can get diagnostics even when the main system is locked up, and can force a shutdown, poweroff, or reboot of the main system. As far as the Oracle/Sun acquisition is concerned, I'm sad to see Sun go, but I'm very glad that it was Oracle and not IBM. IBM would have cannibalized Sun. They have their own product lines that directly compete and that would benefit from the disappearance of Sun and from the use of key Sun technologies to augment them. Sort of like Intel eating Alpha. Oracle, on the other hand, fills out their offerings to compete with IBM by acquiring Sun. As their NPR ads say, hardware, software, complete. They have deep pockets, and have said repeatedly that they will spend more on key Sun technologies than what Sun spent. Only time will tell, but I'm reasonably confident that I can count on Sun servers, storage and Solaris to continue. I just received the latest and last BigAdmin newsletter email from Oracle/Sun yesterday. It will be replaced by the Oracle Solaris Community Newsletter. In it, they had a variety of notable items. Several times they referred to Oracle Solaris. They also are dumping the name LDOM and rechristening it Oracle VM Server for SPARC. Seems like they have a slightly better handle on terminology. There was also an article on building Sybase for optimal performance on the Sun 7000 storage systems. Interesting. So, they'll push Sun's storage even if it is without Oracle DB. There were also some items about MySQL. I wouldn't worry too much about Sun's products. Over time, we'll see where things go. On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable to compare products and prices. Many departments on our campus have shifted to Linux and either AMD or Intel. The computing cluster in Astronomy was built on SuperMicro rack mount servers with AMD processors, DRAC cards, and Ubuntu LTS Server. I don't recall how many systems are in that cluster, but it's a lot. The admin had some complaints about the DRAC cards, but got them working satisfactorily and can manage the entire cluster remotely, starting up, shutting down, either individually or en masse. We've also just started using SuperMicro with AMD and Ubuntu for some of our
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Wed, 5 May 2010, Chris Hoogendyk wrote: On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable to compare products and prices. Many departments on our campus have shifted to Linux and either AMD or Intel. The computing cluster in Astronomy was built on SuperMicro rack mount servers with AMD processors, DRAC cards, and Ubuntu LTS Server. I don't recall how many systems are in that cluster, but it's a lot. The admin had some complaints about the DRAC cards, but got them working satisfactorily and can manage the entire cluster remotely, starting up, shutting down, either individually or en masse. My thoughts about DRAC cards is that for the cost of the card multiplied by the number of systems in a cluster it was more cost effective to drive a few miles to the data center on those rare occasions that the BMC wouldn't do everything I needed. This was on Dell, not SuperMicro equipment. When managing only a dozen or so systems remotely, the answer is very different. -- Matt It's not what I know that counts. It's what I can remember in time to use. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
I manage about 170 servers, most are Sun, several of the newer ones are Dell. Both the newer iLom's in Sun equipment, and DRAC6 cards seem to work reasonably well in my opinion. Some of the older flavors have problems, and I can't really recommend one completely over the other. For me, remote management of a server is reasonably critical - and I find it incredibly beneficial to be able to remotely access the server's power, console screen, etc. While the Sun servers just have it included, yes, it's extra $$ for the Dell side. The other day I needed to upgrade the OS on an older HP cluster we have-- none of the nodes have any kind of ilom/elom/drac. It was... time consuming to not be able to do things remotely. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Hugh Brown aardv...@saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com writes: I'm starting to reconsider favourite hardware vendors. (I only have one rose to give away...) I'm looking for advice on ILOMs, and in particular console access/Serial-Over-LAN. I use an OpenGear brand console server and baytech rebooters; it's really nice, and /much/ cheaper per port than any ILM I've seen. The other advantage is that it's compatable with any vendor of server hardware, so you can always go with what is cheapest or otherwise best. You don't need to re-write your management scripts every time you switch hardware vendors. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Steven Kurylo skurylo+lopsat...@gmail.com writes: While the DRACs on my 2650's are old (which may excuse them), I find they're horrible compared to my HP iLo's. This was also my experience. (I don't own any HP or Dell kit, but I've worked for clients with many of both.) They're quite slow. Sometimes the DRACs serial and video redirect become read-only. I've never figured what causes it. They hang more often, though I can't recall off hand I'm sure there's a way to reboot them without pulling power. You can solve most of DRAC's problems by redirecting the linux console to the DRAC serial and using SSH to access the drac. a seperate serial console and rebooter setup is still cheaper and more reliable, though. I have never seen a KVM over IP that worked very well, but the HP stuff was noticably more reliable than the DELL stuff. Either way, you are best off using serial (either through the 'lights out' card or through a seperate serial console server.) ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Luke S Crawford wrote: Steven Kurylo skurylo+lopsat...@gmail.com writes: While the DRACs on my 2650's are old (which may excuse them), I find they're horrible compared to my HP iLo's. This was also my experience. (I don't own any HP or Dell kit, but I've worked for clients with many of both.) They're quite slow. Sometimes the DRACs serial and video redirect become read-only. I've never figured what causes it. They hang more often, though I can't recall off hand I'm sure there's a way to reboot them without pulling power. You can solve most of DRAC's problems by redirecting the linux console to the DRAC serial and using SSH to access the drac. a seperate serial console and rebooter setup is still cheaper and more reliable, though. I have never seen a KVM over IP that worked very well, but the HP stuff was noticably more reliable than the DELL stuff. Either way, you are best off using serial (either through the 'lights out' card or through a seperate serial console server.) If you don't have the kind of capability you need through something like ILOM, then the forcible power control rebooter stuff could do it, but seems kind of crude. As far as remote systems to connect to the serial console, if you just have a few servers at a location, and you have an older unused desktop machine (an old iMac will do), you can do what I have done pretty inexpensively: http://blogs.umass.edu/choogend/2008/05/23/ammonoidea/ Having all that behind a firewall, closing off all ports but ssh, putting it in stealth mode, and using tcpwrappers to limit access to only a few IP addresses, makes it quite secure as well as easy to use. I ssh in, and the motd reminds me the command sequences to use. `screen -rx sysadmin/serverx` gets me the serial console with its history intact. `ctrl-a d` disconnects without ending the screen console session. Whenever I visit the site, say to rotate tapes out of the library, I run software updates, since I don't use the graphical interface from the outside. Though I could set it up with Timbuktu and do that over ssh. -- --- Chris Hoogendyk - O__ Systems Administrator c/ /'_ --- Biology Geology Departments (*) \(*) -- 140 Morrill Science Center ~~ - University of Massachusetts, Amherst hoogen...@bio.umass.edu --- Erdös 4 ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Luke S Crawford l...@prgmr.com wrote: Steven Kurylo skurylo+lopsat...@gmail.com writes: While the DRACs on my 2650's are old (which may excuse them), I find they're horrible compared to my HP iLo's. This was also my experience. (I don't own any HP or Dell kit, but I've worked for clients with many of both.) They're quite slow. Sometimes the DRACs serial and video redirect become read-only. I've never figured what causes it. They hang more often, though I can't recall off hand I'm sure there's a way to reboot them without pulling power. You can solve most of DRAC's problems by redirecting the linux console to the DRAC serial and using SSH to access the drac. a seperate serial console and rebooter setup is still cheaper and more reliable, though. I have never seen a KVM over IP that worked very well, but the HP stuff was noticably more reliable than the DELL stuff. Either way, you are best off using serial (either through the 'lights out' card or through a seperate serial console server.) I am using Avocent KVM over IP and it works just fine. I am using it to access text-mode Linux consoles and a few Windows servers. Sometimes the mouse doesn't sync up, but that's the nature of how these things work. I think the people who complain about them somehow expect them to work exactly as if they are sitting at the physical console, which will never be the case. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Brian Mathis brian.mat...@gmail.com writes: I am using Avocent KVM over IP and it works just fine. I am using it to access text-mode Linux consoles and a few Windows servers. Sometimes the mouse doesn't sync up, but that's the nature of how these things work. I think the people who complain about them somehow expect them to work exactly as if they are sitting at the physical console, which will never be the case. Yes, this is what I'm trying to say. KVM over IP can never be expected to be as good as sitting in front of the box, the roar of the data center cooling system slowly driving you mad. Except the thing is, a serial console is /better/ than actually sitting at the console, because I have logging and other capabilities. A KVM over IP is /worse/ than sitting at the console. Of course, if you are running windows or otherwise need a out of band GUI, then yes, you must put up with the quirks of a KVM over IP. I'm just saying, if all you need is a text console, plain serial is by far superior. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Wed, 5 May 2010, Luke S Crawford wrote: Yes, this is what I'm trying to say. KVM over IP can never be expected to be as good as sitting in front of the box, the roar of the data center cooling system slowly driving you mad. I keep a set of hearing protectors in the glovebox of my car and several sets of foam earplugs in my notebook bag. Yeah, a bit off topic, but still important. I recommend stocking up on EAR brand earplugs whenever Harbor Freight has them on sale. Protect your hearing while you are young, tintinnitus at my age is annoying. -- Matt It's not what I know that counts. It's what I can remember in time to use. ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Luke S Crawford wrote: Brian Mathis brian.mat...@gmail.com writes: I am using Avocent KVM over IP and it works just fine. I am using it to access text-mode Linux consoles and a few Windows servers. Sometimes the mouse doesn't sync up, but that's the nature of how these things work. I think the people who complain about them somehow expect them to work exactly as if they are sitting at the physical console, which will never be the case. Yes, this is what I'm trying to say. KVM over IP can never be expected to be as good as sitting in front of the box, the roar of the data center cooling system slowly driving you mad. Except the thing is, a serial console is /better/ than actually sitting at the console, because I have logging and other capabilities. A KVM over IP is /worse/ than sitting at the console. Of course, if you are running windows or otherwise need a out of band GUI, then yes, you must put up with the quirks of a KVM over IP. I'm just saying, if all you need is a text console, plain serial is by far superior. ___ If you've got a decent, embedded KVM you can do a lot of things that you simply cannot do with a serial or even in front of the machine including: * Viewing stats from FRUs like fan and CPU temperatures * Forwarding alarms from same into your event management system * multiple levels of permission for accessing different components * capabilities for upgrading BIOS and or BMC when it needs it * ability to access a virtual CD drive either from an ISO image on your local machine or even possibly from some other machine on the network. (if your machine has a local DVD/CD you only get a partial subset of this capability.) * ability to see graphical things that might show up on the console (possibly more important if your box is windows - based) * ability to view system event log related to FRUs and other hardware components. What you don't get from a serial console that you do get from sitting in front of the machine. * reset/power cycle of machine ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
On Wed, May 5, 2010 20:57, Matt Lawrence wrote: On Wed, 5 May 2010, Luke S Crawford wrote: Yes, this is what I'm trying to say. KVM over IP can never be expected to be as good as sitting in front of the box, the roar of the data center cooling system slowly driving you mad. I keep a set of hearing protectors in the glovebox of my car and several sets of foam earplugs in my notebook bag. Yeah, a bit off topic, but still important. I recommend stocking up on EAR brand earplugs whenever Harbor Freight has them on sale. Protect your hearing while you are young, tintinnitus at my age is annoying. OSHA and likely your state's labor department regulate the maximum noise level a worker can be exposed to without protection. You ought to be able to get your employer to provide you either ear plugs or something more permanent. Skylar ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
Re: [lopsa-tech] ILOM recommendations for x86 servers?
Brian Mathis disturbed my sleep to write: I think your problem is reflected in the terminology you are using. ILOM is a Sun-ism, and when you're looking a Intel/Dell servers, they just don't work the same way, so it seems you are evaluating the Dells with invalid criteria. Stop calling it an ILOM to help change your perception. Sorry, I didn't realize that...I thought I'd seen some HP marketing bumpf talking about this, so I thought it was a general term. One other thing I didn't make clear is that I'm not talking about Sun Sparc servers, but Sun x86 servers. I've got a little bit of experience w/the former, and I agree that x86 stuff isn't there yet -- but the x86 whatever-you-call-it for Sun servers seem to behave a lot better, and that's what I've got experience with, so that's what I've got as a basis for comparison. - Serial access: I am running both Dell PE2950 and R710s. They all have acceptable serial redirection built into the BIOS, though you need to configure it. This is only enough to get you into the BIOS screens though. You need to configure GRUB, the Linux kernel, and a getty to run on the serial line. That's just the way it is. In reality you will almost never be using this method of access (use ssh + sudo). Doing that already, and while it's rare to use it it's invaluable when I need it; LDAP has gone away, or the network connection is having problems, or even just to verify that Linux's OOM management has failed again (I've probably misconfigured it) and I need to reboot. - Remote console access: This is handled on PC Servers by using integrated remote console cards like a DRAC, and/or an external IP-based KVM. I have both of these. As you probably know, once you get Linux up and running you don't need console access very often, so you'll only need these in an emergency. Sorry, I think I confused serial redirection and remote console...my bad. - For firmware versions, checking that just needs to be part of your build/test process. Assume that whatever BIOS/firmware versions you get shipped are out of date anyway, so you'll need to download the updates and install. Fair enough. Obviously I'm talking Dell here, as that's what I know. The only other vendor I've used is HP, but they got on my nerves when they started charging piecemeal license fees for each feature you wanted to use in the iLO (such as access to a graphical console window is an extra fee on top of access to a text console window). Aha...did not know that. Thanks for the heads-up. -- Hugh Brown http://saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com Because the plural of Anecdote is Myth. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Tech mailing list Tech@lopsa.org http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
