Re: [Texascavers] Low-gun

[Steve Keselik]

I too have tried everything but stopping by. I live in Bastrop and don't go
to Austin unless I truly have to. I do have to take my brother to the
airport on Friday, maybe I'll try then.

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 2:33 PM Marsha Meredith 
wrote:

> Thanks.
>
> > On Dec 28, 2021, at 2:27 PM, Jim Kennedy  wrote:
> >
> > 4419 Clawson Road
> > Austin TX 78745
> > United States
> >
> > Mobile email from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 28, 2021, at 2:19 PM, Marsha Meredith 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Would you send me Logan’s address? It sounds like he could use some
> extra attention.
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Texascavers] Back in Texas

[Steve Keselik]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2021, at 7:55 PM, William R. Elliott  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear friends,
> 
> Gayle and I just moved to Georgetown, Texas. We live at:
> 
> 30105 Briarcrest Court
> Georgetown, TX 78628
>  
> [please don’t repeat that on Facebook]
>  
> My email and cell phone remain speodes...@gmail.com and 573-291-5093
>  
> My wife, Gayle Unruh, is at unruhga...@gmail.com, 573-291-5094
>  
> I was born in Midland and grew up in Georgetown. I also lived in Vernon, 
> Austin, Lubbock, and Harlingen. I worked in Texas, Mexico,  Belize, western 
> states from California to Alaska, Oklahoma and Missouri. In 1998 I became the 
> cave biologist for the Missouri Department of Conservation, retiring there in 
> 2012. Gayle and I met in Jefferson City, Missouri. She came from Kansas, is a 
> biologist and an art quilter, and has lived in Texas before. We have family 
> in Austin, Gonzales, and Kansas.
> 
> It’s great to be back in my hometown!
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> William R. (Bill) Elliott
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] here's a fun use of the underground

[Steve Keselik]

The miners and engineers at the salt dome I worked at on Weeks Island in
Louisiana would beg to differ on the no fluid flow and permeability line of
thought. Morton salt has or had (1978) a large salt mine there and leaks
would increase  in size and flow at an alarming rate and had to be plugged
ASAP. I would suspect that maybe before a huge man made cavity 1200' down
was made there that the problem wasn't an issue and the weight and
plasticity of the salt keep it in one gigantic piece. This was on the coast
of very wet Louisiana and not the drier New Mexican desert.so that probably
made the difference. It was a very interesting project, my brother was the
surveyor that had to lay out the 30' diameter main shaft and the helical
shat that they could drive equipment up and down into the mine. He started
the helical shaft at the top and bottom at the same time and when they met
the walls came out only a few inches apart ! This was before GPS, he no
doubt  had several years of disturbed sleep checking and rechecking his
math. The shaft was 1200' deep.


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On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:44 PM Dwight Deal  wrote:

> Hi Nancy:
>
>
>
> Forgive me if this is not quite cave and karst related, but -.
>
>
>
> A smaller but similar "event" occurred about 25 miles southeast of
> Carlsbad in 1961.  This was the Gnome Project and the first test as part
> of  Project Plowshare, a poorly-conceived attempt by Sandia National Labs
> at demonstrating the "peaceful use" of atomic bombs.  The idea was to blow
> a big hole in the middle of the Salado Salt (about 2,000 feet thick there)
> and use it to store petroleum as part of our strategic reserve.
>
>
>
> In some ways it worked quite nicely, except for a couple of details.
>
>
>
>
>1. The plug failed and the blast vented to the surface. Official news
>releases stated "Some radiation was released and detected off-site, but it
>quickly decayed". True enough, but the cloud of radioactive particles was
>blown northwest and right over the town of Roswell.  I attribute that event
>to the next generation of natives behaving erratically and embracing the
>belief that aliens from outer space crashed near Roswell.
>
>
>
>
>1. A blast chamber was formed (with a glassy, fused salt floor but
>with breakdown on top of it) and the surrounding salt remained impervious.
>The chamber remained a good container for fluids. The detonation created a
>cavity about 170 ft wide and almost 90 ft high. They actually drilled a
>shaft (a little over 1,000 feet deep) into it after the blast and lowered
>men down. I have talked with one of the guys that was down in there. Six
>months after the detonation, the temperature inside the cavity was still
>around 140 °F. Unfortunately the radioactivity in the blast chamber was so
>high and long lived that any petroleum that would have been stored in it
>would become too radioactive for later use.
>
>
>
> Duh
>
>
>
> There was also the idea that perhaps the cavity would be so hot that you
> could pump water into it and then produce "geothermal" energy.  Not a
> chance!
>
>
>
> I got involved in the 1980s-90s because the Gnome blast was very close to
> the WIPP (Waste Isolation Pilot Plant) where I was the geotechnical
> manager. The WIPP is where a peculiar kind of radioactive waste is now
> being stored. Opposition to the storage facility was concerned that water
> might carry contaminated materials away underground from the WIPP.
>
>
>
> There is no fluid flow through the salt at those depths because under that
> much confining pressure (the weight of the overlying rocks - roughly 14
> atmospheres) the salt flows plastically and there is no permeability
> (connected pore spaces) for fluids to flow through.  You must have
> connected, open pores for fluids to move through rocks.  The Gnome site was
> a location where you could prove that the containment of radioactive waste
> at the WIPP was safe.  If no contaminated fluids flow through the
> undisturbed salt away from Gnome, they could not flow away from the next
> door WIPP site.
>
>
>
> But don't befuddle me with science and facts!
>
>
>
> DirtDoc
>
>
>
> Attached is an image taken inside the blast chamber before the entry shaft
> was permanently sealed.  I think that is a person on top of the rubble pile
> for scale.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> On May 30, 2020 at 2:06 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:
>
> oops said the geologists.  gotta love the scientific ’try it and see what
> happens’ attitude
>
> 

Re: [Texascavers] Future caving off-world

[Steve Keselik]

You Funny! But please keep us up to date on the Nigerian and the person that 
allowed you to occupy their space! My Life would seam rather mundane if I 
didn’t receive your missives! Keep at it , one day it will pay off. Think “ 
Portnoy's complain “in reverse .

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2019, at 2:38 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> NASA allegedly approves mission to Europa.
> 
> https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiNWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmJiYy5jb20vbmV3cy9zY2llbmNlLWVudmlyb25tZW50LTQ5NDA4NDk10gE5aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmJjLmNvbS9uZXdzL2FtcC9zY2llbmNlLWVudmlyb25tZW50LTQ5NDA4NDk1?hl=en-US=US=US%3Aen
> 
> 
> I have an idea.   Some very smart Texas cavers could get together and build 
> and test a proto-type probe and propose to NASA to send it to Europa. 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] FW: Invitation: Public lecture at Carlsbad Caverns National Park, Aug. 2, 4pm

[Steve Keselik]

George,why did you wait till the last minute again! LOL ,I'm sure all this
will be available online after the lecture anyway. The air seemed just fine
the last time I was there! except for the morning of the burritos. Now if
the drilling that has been approved goes through..., all bets are off!
Keep fighting the good fight Brother, unless the Commies have payed you
off! Then come on back home, we'll straighten you out! If you try and
please everybody ,no one will be pleased!

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 1:54 PM  wrote:

>   Next Friday is July 27. August 2 is in two weeks!
>
> Mark Minton
>
> On 2019-07-21 12:25, Sonia Meyer wrote:
> > Next Friday, August 2!
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:52 AM George Veni  wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Friends,
> >>
> >> An interesting presentation will be made at Carlsbad Caverns this
> >> Friday that you may enjoy if you are in the area. Please see the
> >> message below and the attached file for details.
> >>
> >> George
> >>
> >> 
> >> George  Veni, PhD
> >> Executive Director, National Cave and Karst Research Institute
> >> (NCKRI) and President, International Union of Speleology (UIS)
> >>
> >> NCKRI address (primary)
> >> 400-1 Cascades Avenue
> >> Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA
> >> Office: +575-887-5517
> >> Mobile: +210-863-5919
> >> Fax: +575-887-5523
> >> gv...@nckri.org
> >> www.nckri.org [1]
> >>
> >> UIS address
> >> Titov trg 2
> >> Postojna, 6230 Slovenia
> >> www.uis-speleo.org [2]
> >>
> >> From: Lynch, Erin mailto:erin_ly...@nps.gov>>
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 14:41
> >> Subject: Invitation: Public lecture at Carlsbad Caverns National
> >> Park, Aug. 2, 4pm
> >>
> >> Come join Mosaics-in-Science intern Sonia Meyer as she shares her
> >> research into the effects of visitation on air quality in Carlsbad
> >> Cavern. The presentation is free and open to the public.
> >>
> >> Location: Carlsbad Caverns National Park Visitor Center Theater 2
> >> Time: 4-5pm on Friday, August 2nd
> >>
> >> I've attached a flyer - feel free to share with your coworkers and
> >> the general public.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Erin
> >>
> >> --
> >> Erin Lynch
> >> Physical Science Technician
> >> Carlsbad Caverns National Park
> >> 3225 National Parks Highway
> >> Carlsbad, NM 88220
> >> 575-236-1442
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Re: [Texascavers] an attempt at humor

[Steve Keselik]

Mister McFrolicer, It's best to stay off the moon landing and the
Holocaust!  Yes I question Every thing that our Govment does. Waco happened
under Clinton's time. And I liked him and Mr Jimmy. They all did stuff ,
but Jimmy only lusted in his mind! I guess he was at TCR in the hot tub.We
all create  our own misery! Thank You David , you entertain us on this
otherwise dead form!

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:24 AM Charles Loving  wrote:

> Bockbeer creates his own misery.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 6:35 PM David  wrote:
>
>> Imagine just for a moment, the worst day that you have ever had
>> ( not counting real serious family tragedies, of course )
>>
>> Now imagine being forcibly locked up with the guy in the link below,
>>
>> in a tiny cold jail cell and all alone (  for several days ),
>> listening to him talk, in a very-slurred east Texas drawl,
>> non-stop, ( going on and on ), about LED lights, road-trips without a
>> car, caving trips
>> that sort-of-almost happened 30 years ago (  but didn't ), NSS Howdy
>> Parties,
>> and a video that he watched on YouTube a few months back, and
>> a the tribulations of 30 people that he once knew that had passed away,
>> and
>> other ridiculous things that might maybe have the word "cave" in the
>> theme or topic.
>>
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/K2SfJ3T1tXdm11ee6
>>
>>
>> Anyways, that guy in the image is me after almost 24 hours of being out
>> of the pokey.
>> I still have not mentally or physically got back to "my normal."I have
>> some major charlie-horses going on, and had to salamander down the
>> hall to the restroom this morning. I obviously needed nourishment.
>> Life
>> as a hermit has its drawbacks. There is absolutely nothing in my
>> apartment
>> now, but a foam pad, a tv, and an inflatable chair and folding table, (
>> and my
>> feminine-speaking Nigerian male Craigslist-roommate. )  I no longer
>> have
>> any towels, or sheets, or toilet-paper there, nor clothes, It is like
>> a camping
>> trip each time I am forced to go there.
>>
>> If any of you happen to be on the southside of Monterrey, Mexico next
>> week, well,
>> my daughter, CavePearl, will be spending summer vacation there at
>>
>> https://goo.gl/maps/4MwnMhxoZHMedcM37
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Houston related

[Steve Keselik]

David, How bout you send the $60 bucks and give the stereo away! Just a
thought.Steve

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 2:52 PM David  wrote:

> If anybody in Houston area has something valuable to donate to the
> announced caver-garage-sale,
>
> I am pondering the idea of going to it.
>
> David Locklear
> Text at 346-801-4962
>
> I could easily find something to donate, if I could get my act together.
>  I have a Pilot-brand stereo system that I inherited from caver James
> McLane, probably worth $ 5.
>
> I need to figure out how to justify spending $ 60 in gas and possibly even
> a motel in Giddings.
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Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention

[Steve Keselik]

Locklear 2020  At least we could laugh instead of cry!


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On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 12:09 PM Chris Vreeland 
wrote:

> Damn good book, no matter your opinion of various cavers. One of the
> funniest things I’ve ever read. I believe the title is derived from a
> Jonathan Swift quote.
>
> On Jun 18, 2019, at 7:34 AM, Katherine Arens 
> wrote:
>
> confederacy of dunces
>
> On Jun 17, 2019, at 5:06 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
>
> There was novel about some guy in New Orleans that was equally inept.
> Something about..."Fools". I still can't figure why he needs 100 pounds of
> stuff for three days? All that junk food will make you very portly.
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:53 PM Carol W Russell 
> wrote:
>
>> "Cheerfully Hapless" would be a good title for a humorous novel, and he
>> has oodles of material to work with
>>
>> Carol.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 2:27 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m amused by DL stories of convention.  and he is the only one posting
>>> that I know of.  I guess we all draw a personality in life and his might be
>>> cheerfully hapless.  there are far worse things to be.
>>> Nancy
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>
>
> --
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>
> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.<<
>
>
> 
> Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Convention Campground

[Steve Keselik]

Have your bit coins ready, some “ friends “will be there shortly unless you 
have icy cold Federmins and vodka, they my settle for that. I’m so glad you 
made it David and am glad you have a little time to connect! I you do something 
I wouldn’t do please name it after me!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 8:36 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> Please pass the word
> 
> Room 109
> America's Best Value Inn
> 
> 1/4 mile from campground
> 
> Room is nasty, but has floor-space and love-seat folds to a bed.
> 
> I have it for tonight and Monday
> 
> Bang on door loud, as I will be unconscious till about 9 a.m..
> 
> David Locklear
> 346-801-4962
> Text only
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Re: [Texascavers] Groad Hollow

[Steve Keselik]

Lenard Cohen?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Barb  wrote:
> 
> Larry Cohen is an actual person - why is he in quotes? 
> ps tell him I said hi.
> Barb Coons
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 16, 2019, at 6:47 PM, David  wrote:
>> 
>> Typo
>> 
>> Rune Burnett
>> 
>> Blake Harrison and Dominique are here.
>> 
>> Mark Gee just got her telling everybody how wonderful The Geology Field trip 
>> was.
>> 
>> Old-timer, " Larry Cohen." just showed up.
>> 
>> The Nashville Grotto has a cool bar set up.   There will be a pre-convention 
>> pub-style gathering there tonight.
>> 
>> Cavers here are reminiscing / chattering about Bill Mixon.
>> 
>> D.L.
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> 
> 
> Do This (Before Bed) to Burn Belly Flab All Night Long
> worldhealthlabs.com
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d06ec10c1576c0f3150st03duc
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Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention

[Steve Keselik]

Thank God for Fintermans. The best caving advice I ever got from an early day 
Lech explorer was “always bring ear plugs” those eye things are good too. If I 
was you I’d make a shelter out of that 100lb duffel pack. Party on ! You can 
sleep when you get back

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 4:58 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> I would like to send out a very special sincere thank you of appreciation to 
> so many cavers that welcomed me.   It is perplexing, at least to me, that a 
> goofy retired recreational quasi-caver, such as me, can get such a red-carpet 
> treatment from real hard-core notable prestigious cavers.
> 
> 
> I do not think I have ever attended an NSS Convention on a Sunday before.   I 
> am quite surprised at all the jovial activity.
> 
> There are several Texas cavers here.  Katherine Arens, Jim Kennedy, Galen 
> Falgout, Terry and Mercy Raines, and Bill Rupley and former Texas cavers, 
> Ernst Kastning, Mark Minton and Sara Gayle. 
> 
> I was very impressed with the amount of quality stuff in NSS Consignment 
> Sales and a guy that makes cool t-shirts.
> 
> Very sadly, no sign of the AMCS.
> 
> After registering for a One Day Pass, I was about to pass out from exhaustion.
> So I found the nearest dark corner that I could find and curled up in a fetal 
> position on the hard floor to sleep.   Just as I was be about to dose off, 
> the lady from the "Amazing Caves" movie woke me up and said something to the 
> effect of "dude, this is the area were we quarantine the Juveniles, I am 
> evicting you."
> 
> So I packed up my stuff and went searching for a new spot to power-nap.
> Down the hall, I found a scrap piece of cardboard near the trash-can.  I 
> found a hidden niche on a harder cold floor in the cafeteria, and made a tiny 
> homeless-camp.  I did not get any sleep, as people kept coming and going and 
> socializing, but I did eventually regain some energy.
> 
> It is 4 pm now, and I have no idea where I am going, but I am celebrating 
> this tiny accomplishment with a cold bottle of Fentiman's Ginger Beer and 
> some sweet-potato chips.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/dZL6mchgX2DjUppUA
> 
> 
> To be continued.
> 
> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] a road-trip story - part 2

[Steve Keselik]

I think the weight was estimated. 100Lbs is quite heavy or maybe David is
funding the trip hustling a little product, always in demand at the
convention! Check into Alegiant airlines, $75 should get you close.


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On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 11:34 AM Barb  wrote:

> Yes! I was wondering that too. (Which goes to show I have been
> procrastinating doing something productive this morning.)
> :-)
> Barb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 16, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Katherine Arens 
> wrote:
>
> also a question:  how can the duffel weigh 100 lbs with no camping gear?
> just asking why you’re transporting rocks . . .
>
> On Jun 16, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Barb  wrote:
>
> David, you could have flown on southwest and camped for less than you are
> probably going to end up paying now- if you plan ahead. But it seems you
> hate that. Btw, you can also cancel flights on SW with no penalty and then
> rebook for the next year's convention if plans get screwy. Just saying.
> Barb Coons
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 16, 2019, at 8:17 AM, David  wrote:
>
> From David Locklear
>
> My Craigslist chauffeur lived up to his end of the deal.
>
> I had no idea what to expect, but was assuming Dr. Lecter.  He
> arranged to meet Saturday morning for breakfast at his cheap hotel
> in southwest Houston. I was not going to pry into his agenda,
> and told him I would be there.   This location allowed me to leave
> the Sequoia at my apartment. I wasted an hour trying to find a ride,
> to his hotel, and then tried to bum a ride off my neighbors.In
> hindsight,
> I should have just walked a 1/4 mile to the bus stop, as the bus allegedly
> runs every 30 minutes on Saturday.   ( I had only rode it once before a
> long
> time ago, and lacked the time to study the bus routes ).
>
> Anyways, my duffle-bag back weighed 100 lbs, and only had a shoulder
> strap, and I was wearing
> flip-flops.I was drenching in sweat by the time the bus arrived.
>  The bus
> dropped me off a mile from his hotel and I had to walk it Mixtecan-style
> with
> my duffle-bag on my head.I was in a dangerous part of town to be
> alone, and
> had all my trip funds on me as cash, which is something I would not have
> done
> had I had time to prepare for the trip.
>
> By the time I got to his hotel, I was an hour late, but he didn't seem to
> mind.I was
> drenching in sweat, and exhausted when I met him, so that was not a way to
> make
> a good first impression.  He let me shower and change clothes, so once
> we got
> on the road, I felt better.
>
> To my surprise, my first impression of my new Craigslist chauffeur was not
> Dr. Lecter,
> but instead Mr. Wan Kuok-koi, leader
> of the 14K Triad syndicate in China.But that seemed better than what I
> was
> assuming he would be. He had already finished breakfast, but let
> me eat while he packed up his room.  He drove non-stop to Texarkana,
> and I took
> over and drove non-stop to Nashville. There I convinced him to drive
> me to Cookeville
> and get a motel and we would split it, even though Nashville and
> Cookeville were off his
> main route of travel to Detroit.  All in all that, cost me $ 175,
> money I really should have
> spent going to the dentist.
>
> We made the trip in a new Chevy Equinox.It had integrated into the
> side-mirrors a tiny
> yellow symbol to warn you of a car in your blind spot. That feature
> would be worthless in
> Houston, as you always have a car in your blind-spot, and so the light
> would be very
> annoying.   You would have to cover it with black tape.
>
> My Craigslist chauffeur, claimed his name was Barry.He listened to
> that confounded National
> Propaganda Radio, for 15 hours, driving me fr*ckin nuts.He hardly
> uttered a single word for 15 hours, even though he
> spoke perfect English.   ( He claimed he was originally from Maine and had
> been in the Coast Guard
> briefly ) I tried my best to find a topic we could converse, but he
> was either an introvert or an
> underworld fugitive, or there was a remote chance he figured I was crazy
> as a loon, or most likely all
> three of those.
>
> I am now in Room 301, Sunday morning. I plan to sleep until noon, if
> the hotel will let me.
>
> I have no idea what I am going to do this afternoon. I really don't
> have the funds to be up here, and I really
> have a ton of chores waiting on me back in Houston.I have not been
> able to find a ride home
> yet, but there is a shuttle bus back to Nashville. I assume I won't
> have to hard of a problem getting
> back to Nashville.
>
> I will likely only purchase a 1-Day Pass for the NSS Convention. Maybe
> a 2-Day Pass.
>
> I am 

Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention

[Steve Keselik]

Party on Dude! Glad you made it and are having a good time and a Happy
Fathers Day! Some time all we need is a little distance. As the the old
song says " How can I miss you if you won't go away"


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On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 9:34 AM David  wrote:

> I can now verify, that I have already bungle-fied my trip.
>
> A poor lady NSS volunteer waited and waited and waited extremely patiently
> at my motel to give me a ride across town to the Convention Registration
> Booth, but I had no idea she was there, and had my phone off to finish my
> beauty-sleep.   Who the heck gets up on Sunday mornings before noon ?
> This was not even on my agenda today.   I had planned to sleep all day.
>
> But I am here, which is too bizarre to be real.   I must be dreaming or in
> a coma.
>
>
> I already found a display of a cave organization.   Cavers need one of
> these displays permanently set up in Houston.
>
> I must find a share-motel for tonight.
>
> The sweet lady that drove me here, offered me a ride to Nashville bus
> station on Tuesday evening.   Somebody please give her a six-pack of her
> favorite beverage.
>
> David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Happy thoughts

[Steve Keselik]

And too little water. I think the convention should only be on Skype so we
would stop burning all those fossil fuels to get there or a least ride a
bicycle!  Or hold it every year in the center of the caving universe,
Central Texas , of course hosted by other states. Happy Fathers Day and
Childfree Day to all!


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On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 9:13 PM Charles Loving  wrote:

> Too many people.
>
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 8:02 PM Carol W Russell 
> wrote:
>
>> Still, it seems there are things we can do, and must do, to slow the
>> process.
>>
>> We humans need to change profoundly the way we live.
>> It will take a large cooperative effort, at the individual level and at
>> government levels worldwide.
>>
>> We need to stop fighting wars and stop overconsuming the world's
>> resources, to preserve its natural wonders and wildlife, so that our kids
>> will have the opportunity to enjoy nature and, yes, caving.
>>
>> Humans are inventive. Let's work on it.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 10:58 AM JamesJasek  wrote:
>>
>>> There is almost no doubt that our grandchildren will grow up in a
>>> different world then we live in today. Our government has our country
>>> totally and completely screwed up I just don’t feel like we got a chance to
>>> survive I’m not so worried about myself but I’m definitely worried about my
>>> daughter and my granddaughter
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhoneX
>>>
>>> On Jun 15, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Charles Loving 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> *IPCC and the Green idea plans are based on the assumption that
>>> greenhouse gases can be removed from the atmosphere. That technology does
>>> not exist to scale needed at this time for obvious reasons of energy and
>>> land requirements. Paleoclimate records easily show us that you aren't
>>> going to simply stop global warming at +1.5-2 C by ending emissions (the
>>> current carbon dioxide equivalent concentration is 500 parts of million;
>>> 1700s concentration was ~275-280 ppm, even with other greenhouse gases).
>>> The 1.5 C report last autumn suggested another 0.6 C of warming was locked
>>> in based on recent emissions and we must be net zero carbon by 2050; but
>>> this is based purely on emissions from *humans*, removal of carbon on
>>> scales of hundreds of gigatons (basically removing what took plants tens of
>>> millions of years to sequester...bind as solid matter via plant
>>> growth...in *tens of years*...really? With what energy source...what land?)
>>> and fast feedback sensitivity. Water vapor...loss of sea ice and
>>> albedo...some effects from clouds...other feedbacks which are clearly
>>> showing an exponential behavior are simply neglected in models. Even the
>>> feedbacks which are easily seen and more quantifiable are accelerating much
>>> faster than expected. The Permafrost is melting fast, methane is spewing,
>>> the oceans are getting warmer, the circulation in the atmosphere has
>>> changed. Are we on the road to extinction? Now that is a happy thought
>>> isn't it. Our grand babies might be doomed.*
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charlie Loving
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>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Looking for old caver

[Steve Keselik]

 I've also wondered about Susie since she's been absent.She was a mainstay
of Texas caving, every vertical work shop and other things she was involved
with. she was my mentor at CWAN for the photo workshop,back when we used
film, 1998 right after I recovered from adult chickenpox. The illness
almost brought me down, I begged for the vaccination but they wouldn't give
it to me before hand.. Too many tie ins . I hope for a good report on her !


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On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:19 PM Katherine Arens 
wrote:

> Susie Lasko, and/or her daughter Aspen Adams (don’t remember her married
> name). Trying to track down some photos. HELP!
> katie
> 
> Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] NSS Convention

[Steve Keselik]

David, I Love you dearly, but if you're going to live in Houston don't
complain. Love it or leave it.I left Lake Jackson at 17 in a VW  camp
mobile and traveled the world, My world,and damn sure didn't look back. The
American south west all the way to Montana.I welded in strip mines, built
bikes in Colo. I know Cave Pearl is your  reason for staying near by and my
grown daughter is back living at home . She has a great new job locally,
but are you helping or hurting? Your continual complaints are entertaining
but I must admit depressing. I can't fix you or even myself ! It's sad to
me me that anyone would make it a goal to go to every NSS Convention, But
to drive hours and hours to just make the howdy party? Load up the Sequoia
and go live your life! But keep posting. You make us all feel better about
our selves. Written in love, Steve


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On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 6:20 PM Mallory  wrote:

> A! That picture makes me miss my precious H-town! I used to live just
> a mile from this section of 59. One of the two Whole Earth Provisions in
> Houston is right off this interstate. 
>
> All of y’all like to hate on Houston, but if you’re willing to drive to go
> caving, there are few other places that offer as much variety and
> activities. And of course, they have an amazing grotto there! 
>
> Mallory
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 13, 2019, at 5:59 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
>
> Actually I would skip living in Houston.
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:33 PM David  wrote:
>
>> Would you skip this to attend the 2019 NSS Convention ?
>>
>> Hwy 59 southbound at Shepherd in Houston
>> ___
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>>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!

[Steve Keselik]

George, it's been along time since I've seen you. I've always enjoyed your
company and appreciate all you do for our karst ,cave and hydro resources!
When you speak or post ,I listen!  You are an old friend that has moved
away but is fighting the good fight. Keep it up! I haven't made a local
grotto meeting in years but I read the announcements. Team Troglo Brau has
still got your back brother. Not many others that have put in the time in
Powell's stream passage! I found the announcement very informative and I
learned something.Now can you teach me how to put an umlaut over the E in
Zoe on the computer? My daughter, who's name we picked way before it became
popular would appreciate it! Lol All the best to You,Steve and the gang
P.S. Keep the posts coming even if it's after the fact.


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On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 2:04 PM Michael Harris 
wrote:

> A 4 hour trip from San Antonio would have been toughOK, maybe
> impossible but if I would have happened to be near Carlsbad I sure would
> have appreciated the heads up. Thanks for keeping us in the loop George.
>
> Mike Harris
>
> On Sat, Jun 8, 2019, 10:20 AM George Veni  wrote:
>
>> I don’t see the point to this repeated criticism. I started my
>> announcement with an apology for sending it at the last minute because it
>> was clear that it would be too late for many people. I sent it because it
>> may not be too late for some and I thought it would be good to include
>> them. If my circumstances allowed me to send the announcement earlier, I
>> obviously would have.
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone has further complaints about my sharing information over lists
>> designed to share information, please do so privately.
>>
>>
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jerry 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 8, 2019 06:01
>> *To:* George Veni ; swrcav...@googlegroups.com;
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns
>> today!
>>
>>
>>
>> Well George,
>>
>>
>>
>> If it was important, why did you give us 4 hours notice before the
>> meeting ?  Even If I lived in Carlsbad, I probably wouldn't have noticed
>> your email until it was either too late or had prior engagements.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you wanted to be inclusive, send meeting notices earlier.  As it was,
>> it appears as a last moment "oops" or worse, just covering yourself for
>> planning in reverse.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe the Region would like to hear of Zoe's results if she is around
>> during the upcoming Winter Tech. I promise we won't give her 4 hours
>> notice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry Atkinson.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: George Veni 
>> To: New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers <
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com>
>> Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2019 10:00 pm
>> Subject: RE: [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!
>>
>> Why bother to post? I thought the reasons were obvious but since asked:
>>
>> * I don't have the e-mail address of everyone who might be interested in
>> attending.
>>
>> * There are a notable number of people on the New Mexico and Texas
>> e-lists within relatively easy travel range of Carlsbad who could make it
>> with the short 4-hour advance notice I gave.
>>
>> * Many cavers outside of the immediate Carlsbad area travel regularly to
>> Carlsbad, especially on Fridays, and they night be in the area and would
>> miss announcements sent only to locals.
>>
>> * I believe it is important to be inclusive, not exclusive, in getting
>> people news that might interest them.
>>
>> * I see no harm in sharing announcements, even if at the last minute, in
>> case some might benefit from them.
>>
>> In the end, the lecture went well and the room was packed. I don't know
>> if any people attended due to my announcement, but I noticed several who
>> might have.
>>
>> George
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: jerryat...@aol.com 
>> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2019 15:51
>> To: George Veni 
>> Cc: New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers <
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com>
>> Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] Special Presentation at Carlsbad Caverns today!
>>
>> Jeez, George. Why did you even bother to post?  Hopefully, we’ll get to
>> hear more at the SWR Winter Tech.
>>
>> Jerry Atkinson.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jun 7, 2019, at 12:03 PM, George Veni  wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Friends,
>> >
>> > I apologize for this last-minute notice. If you are in the Carlsbad
>> area this afternoon, please consider a visit to Carlsbad Caverns National
>> Park at 4 p.m. for a free public lecture by Zoë Havlena.
>> >
>> > Have you ever thought about the green stuff growing near lights in show
>> caves? Folks call it "algae" but the proper name is "lampenflora." It is
>> unsightly, damages caves, and 

Re: [Texascavers] TC issue

[Steve Keselik]

Good idea Andy, Since I haven't seen a Texas Caver in way too long that
might motivate me. I haven't been to the TSC Yet, I'm so glad Bill left us
a place to call our Home Base!  I'll do my best to be there in August and
honor all our friends that have gone ahead. I think some kind of Memorial
update-able plaque on the wall would be deserved. I'm not to sure how that
would work but many of us are in a time of life for us to want to be
recognized for being a Texas Caver that contributed to the collective. I
don't think there will be a caver ceremony for us all, but many of us would
like to be recognized when the time comes. Just a Thought.

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:25 PM Charles Loving  wrote:

> And Bob Oakley too. The list is very long when you get it out.
>
> On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 6:39 PM Carl Kunath 
> wrote:
>
>> Please don’t forget David McKenzie and perhaps a few others . . . .
>> ===Carl Kunath
>>
>> *From:* grub...@centurytel.net
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:28 PM
>> *To:* texascavers 
>> *Subject:* [Texascavers] TC issue
>>
>> I'd like to float the idea of  doing a couple memorial issues of the
>> Texas Caver for William Russell, Bill Mixon, Pete Strickland, Lee Jay
>> Graves and Don Broussard.  We did so much with those fellows,  They did so
>> much for caving.  If folks wrote stories of caving with them, personal
>> recollections from days gone by, articles about ways they contributed to
>> our cause it would make a large addition to our shared history
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Texascavers] an interesting news story

[Steve Keselik]

Interesting story, I'd like to see someone do it in a shipping container!.
I've heard there are lots of them afloat and cause danger to boat
navigation. I've also been a big fan of Thor Heyerdahl and Kon-Tiki since I
was a kid. We had the picture book. Another interesting man who may still
hold the longest record for crossing the Atlantic is Alecksander Doba, a 70
year old who's soloed at least 3 times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Doba

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:20 AM Bill Bentley  wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition
> On 5/8/2019 10:15 AM, David wrote:
>
> It is very hard in 2019 to find a feel-good news story. So I thought I
> would
> share this in case you did not see it.
>
>
> https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/barrel-atlantic-crossing-arrival-scli-intl/index.html
>
> He crossed the ocean at 2 miles per hour - using no sail.
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Carta Valley on Amazon

[Steve Keselik]

If you want to talk about high resale book prices look for" My Vertical
World" by Jerzy Kukuczka. Probably a good investment if you can find a good
one at the right price. If you don't know who he is then I would highly
recommend you read it. Steve

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 8:42 PM Logan  wrote:

> Good for you Karen, I just read your review.
> It's sold by Nados Nook, two educators in their seventies living in
> Abilene, TX. They had a dog named Tornado, but had to shorten the name
> after she got out one night and the owner went running through the
> neighborhood screaming "Tornado".
>
> The listing shows the publisher as "Texas Speleological Society".
>
> (Note: I spent my first 7 years in Abilene TX but never saw a tornado, or
> a dog with that name.)
>
> Lowgun
>
> On 2/12/2019 6:49 PM, Karen Perry wrote:
>
> I did a review to warn about the absurd price and told where to get the
> book
> Karen
>
> On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 3:46:10 PM MST, Carl Kunath
>   wrote:
>
>
> This just appeared on Amazon:
>
> [image: CV on Amazon]
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-3302271000397693636_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: Halitetites

[Steve Keselik]

I'm not quite sure salt mines inter into the realm of speleology but I did
work in a very large salt dome near New Iberia La. on Weeks Island. My
brother surveyed the spiral shaft to the new part of the dome plus the
straight shaft, 1200' deep and 30' in dia. I was working on the drilling
rig that sank the brine casings so they could freeze the saturated ground
above . This was for Morton salt so they could lease the older tunnels for
the strategic oil storage of the the Federal government . The gulf of
Mexico coast has many domes the size of which boggles the mind. Sulfur
domes are mined with steam. If you've ever heard of Freeport Mc Muran, they
started as Freeport Sulfur in Texas.These sulfur domes now also store oil.
This is a very deep subject! Formations can be formed very quickly, go to
Krause Springs or Havasu in the GC or Hot springs Ark. and observe the
formation of minerals around the plant life. I'm just putting this out
there so others can research this phenomenon under or feet.

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 9:22 AM Michael Queen  wrote:

> speculations on terminology:
>
> In some ways, speleology is  now in an evolutionary state, much as biology
> was in the early 18th century. Faced with a myriad of different things,
> they struggled to which diverse characteristics were the most important,
> and which were less critical. Order was eventually brought from chaos by
> the Linnean (binomial) system of classification. Since then there has been
> a general split between taxonomists who see all sorts of differences as
> significant and warrantling new names (splitters), and those who focus on
> more widely held characteristics (lumpers). There is perhaps no single
> right way of naming something. But when we do attach a name, we should be
> aware of the philosophical implications of doing so.  In particular, it
> seems there should be a distinction between the terms applied to the form
> and to the mineralogy of diverse speleothems. By convention, most
> speleothems are described as a function of their morphology, which is
> related to the physical nature of the environment, in which they formed
> (source of fluids, drives of supersaturation, etc.). The  mineralogic
> composition of the speleothem, which is related to the chemical nature of
> the environment, is in most cases is not mentioned, unless it's weird. If
> we start naming speleothems based on mineralogy, it would mean that we
> would need separate terms for calcite stalactites, aragonite stalactites,
> mixed calcite and aragonite stalactites, stalactites with laminae of
> hydromagnesite, etc., etc.. Following the hierarchical classification of
> organisms,  would it make more sense, by convention, to describe
> speleothems by using a morphological term with (as necessary) a
> mineralogical  modifier? It doesn't  diminish the significance of any
> particular feature but increases the information contained in the term.
> Additionally, it makes the translation into other languages easier,
> searching terms easier and more intuitive, etc..
>
> As as rule, the people who first discover and find something new  are more
> likely to be splitters, and the people who follow up and bring diverse
> studies together are lumpers. They are like arborists, cropping off limbs
> that seem less functional than others. This commonly is related to age of
> the researcher, where young scholars are in the field finding new things,
> older scholars are in the labs, understanding what they have found, and
> long-toothed scholars are in the office, writing up and synthesizing the
> work of others. As a long-tooth myself, these relationships become
> increasingly clear.
>
> mq
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 6:45 PM J Lyles  wrote:
>
>> Cool, i know where Bex is, not far from Montreaux and Lac Leman right? I
>> go to that area frequently for work. Is it in the valley floor or up on the
>> cliffs in mountains?
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Mark Minton 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Another interesting salt mine to visit is the one at Bex, Switzerland. I
>>> went there in 1993-4. You can ride a miniature train through the workings
>>> and see antique equipment and workings. Everything gets encrusted with
>>> salt. The mine is still active today.
>>>
>>> Mark Minton
>>> mmin...@caver.net
>>>
>>> On Fri, 31 Aug, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Dwight  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes.  We were at Turda a couple of years ago.  It's spectacular as the
>>> salt has flowed plastically and is highly contorted.  The "theme park" is a
>>> bit bizarre when you see it in person!
>>> Dirtdoc
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Harvey DuChene" 
>>> *To: *"Dwight" , jerryat...@aol.com, "Cave Texas" <
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, August 31, 2018 8:41:26 AM
>>> *Subject: *RE: [SWR CAVERS] Halitetites
>>>
>>> In 1998 or 1999, Kathy and I visited Romania and went to the salt mine
>>> at Turda in the Transylvanian Alps. The mine is very old, and I believe
>>> salt was being extracted as 

Re: [Texascavers] photos of Peter Strickland

[Steve Keselik]

Come on Y'all ! Photos of Pete, preferably with his shirt off ! If I asked
for of a picture of your dog or what you ate for dinner I'd be overloaded.
I want some pictures of the guy I knew and Loved! and I'm not asking
for the NSS convention but to remember the man I have known all these years
!

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 8:44 PM, Bill Steele 
wrote:

> Certainly.
>
> On Jul 5, 2018, at 8:38 PM, Katherine Arens 
> wrote:
>
> can you forward to one of the Stricklands?  For their collection.
>
> On Jul 5, 2018, at 8:06 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
>
> I got the photo I was hoping for of Pete in a cave from Mike MacEachern.
> I’m happy and set.
>
> Bill Steele
> speleoste...@aol.com
>
> On Jul 5, 2018, at 11:20 AM, William R. Elliott 
> wrote:
>
> Friends,
>
> I have a few photos taken by Peter Strickland of Sótano del Arroyo and
> Sótano de Japonés in the Sierra de El Abra, which are in the new AMCS
> Bulletin 26. Some others are shots of Pete in a group by other Dale Pate
> and Logan McNatt, but you can't see him very clearly.
>
> I hope someone will send me good photos of Pete up close, preferably in
> caving gear.
>
> Meanwhile, you can download 8 photos from my Dropbox/Strickland folder at
> this link:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gufmxjrqfy08g3v/AAAlg-w8eZCt2ek34shT83lDa?dl=0
>
> This is not really a public folder, but by giving you this link y'all can
> download the photos from your browser, but not post anything. You may email
> photos to me and I'll post them there for all of us. (The TexasCavers
> list cannot allow more than 75 KB attachments.)
>
> Bill Steele also needs some good close-ups of Pete in caving gear, if you
> have them. Copy him at  
>
> Sorry, I don't do Facebook any more, so I can't retrieve photos there. If
> someone wants to put these images on a website, please go ahead.
>
> Thanks,
>
> *William R. (Bill) Elliott*
>
> *speodes...@gmail.com *
>
> 573-291-5093 cell
>
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>
>
> 
> Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
> ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
> Austin, TX  78712-1802
>   -. .-
>  _..-'()`-.._
>  ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
>   ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
>   ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
>  /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
> '.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
>  |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
> V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
>  ``  `V ' ' '
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] photos of Peter Strickland

[Steve Keselik]

So far Mr. Bockbeer has posted the most pictures of Pete. Personally ,I'm
very thankful! Thank You David!

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Charles Goldsmith 
wrote:

> Actually, texascavers.com allows 5mb attachments now, I quietly updated
> that a few years ago and just forgot to update the webpage.  Pretty sure no
> one is on modem anymore these days, but you can never tell.
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 11:21 AM William R. Elliott 
> wrote:
>
>> Friends,
>>
>> I have a few photos taken by Peter Strickland of Sótano del Arroyo and
>> Sótano de Japonés in the Sierra de El Abra, which are in the new AMCS
>> Bulletin 26. Some others are shots of Pete in a group by other Dale Pate
>> and Logan McNatt, but you can't see him very clearly.
>>
>> I hope someone will send me good photos of Pete up close, preferably in
>> caving gear.
>>
>> Meanwhile, you can download 8 photos from my Dropbox/Strickland folder at
>> this link:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gufmxjrqfy08g3v/AAAlg-w8eZCt2ek34shT83lDa?dl=0
>>
>>
>> This is not really a public folder, but by giving you this link y'all can
>> download the photos from your browser, but not post anything. You may email
>> photos to me and I'll post them there for all of us. (The TexasCavers
>> list cannot allow more than 75 KB attachments.)
>>
>> Bill Steele also needs some good close-ups of Pete in caving gear, if you
>> have them. Copy him at  
>>
>> Sorry, I don't do Facebook any more, so I can't retrieve photos there. If
>> someone wants to put these images on a website, please go ahead.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *William R. (Bill) Elliott*
>>
>> *speodes...@gmail.com *
>>
>> 573-291-5093 <(573)%20291-5093> cell
>> ___
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Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland

[Steve Keselik]

I don't know if Pete even knew my name but he knew my face. I  *could
always name drop Sumbera if I needed a tie in. Terry Burgan  and I helped
with the set up of the hot tub a time or two, Y'all remember Lulling? Pete
was such a giving person! He spoke his mind and tought us many things. He
is an example of what we should try to be and how hard to work and to how
to have a great  party! He is missed but i Know he's just a little up the
passage from us and we will meet again! I look far word to that day!*

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Barb  wrote:

> 500,000 miles! Cool.
> Barb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 5, 2018, at 5:48 PM, Mark Minton 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, everyone, for sharing the circumstances of Pete's passing. I
> knew he had been ill but thought he had improved or at least stabilized. It
> is a great loss.
> >
> > Pete was the one who pointed out a white, 4WD school bus for sale in
> south Austin back in 1980. I bought it and used it for Huautla (and other)
> trips to Mexico throughout the '80s. Pete helped me customize the bus for
> expedition use. He came up with an innovative deck design that replaced the
> middle seats, and used his welding skill to make the necessary brackets. He
> also helped me install a second gas tank and mount a second spare tire
> under the floor.
> >
> > Gas tanks came up several times in my past experiences with Pete. On one
> early trip to Cuetzalan we drove Jocie's then-new brown station wagon down
> there. That was soon after U.S. cars needed unleaded gas, but it was not
> yet required nor widely available in Mexico. We were careful to fill up at
> every big city where we could get it. When we got to Cuetzalan (which did
> not sell unleaded), we discovered a hole in Jocie's gas tank. We drained
> the gas into buckets and Pete removed the gas tank, flushed it with water,
> and used a Svea stove to seal the hole with solder. We dried and replaced
> the tank, refilled it with the salvaged gas, and made it the rest of the
> trip.
> >
> > Pete also helped me add a second gas tank to my 1984 Toyota pickup
> (recently retired with over 500,000 miles). Since Toyota didn't offer
> second tanks as an option, I got one from a junk yard. Only problem was,
> the filler neck and mounting brackets were on the wrong side. Pete
> custom-made new brackets and mounted the tank backwards on the opposite
> side of the frame from the factory tank (after I had the exhaust pipe
> rerouted down the center above the drive shaft). The filler neck was
> concealed in the rear wheel well so we didn't have to cut a hole in the
> body. That always got raised eyebrows when I filled up at Pemex stations. I
> called it mi tanque escondido.
> >
> > Pete was very inventive and could usually come up with a way to solve
> any problem. He will be greatly missed.
> >
> > Mark Minton
> > mmin...@caver.net
> > ___
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> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/
> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> 
> 'Genius' Pill - Top 1% Didn't Want The Public To Know About
> The Brain Insider
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5b3e9367139f813612b89st04vuc
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Re: [Texascavers] Texascavers Digest, Vol 42, Issue 19

[Steve Keselik via Texascavers]

My vote for an water proof case is the Pelican box, fortunately Harbor
Freight has the Apache brand for about 1/3rd the cost. The small one
starting at $15. They seem to be well constructed and made of a good grade
plastic, a good rubber seal and a vent valve. They even have the pluck foam
insert. Steve

On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 11:00 AM, 
wrote:

> Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to
> texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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> texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Texascavers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. NSS Party ? (David)
>2. Ammo can - Part 2 (David)
>3. Re: Ammo can - Part 2 (Mark Minton)
>4. Re: Ammo can - Part 2 (Charles Loving)
>5. Re: Lascaux Museum (Jerry)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 15:47:35 -0600
> From: David 
> To: CaveTex 
> Subject: [Texascavers] NSS Party ?
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [Texascavers] Bigfoot

[Steve Keselik]

Some years back in Powell's cave we were hoping to find a shorter route to
the stream passage via the maze. We didn't find any dig sites that looked
promising but we did note some scratch marks about 4' up on the wall that
looked like a small animal was trying to get out of the water as they all
were in a horizontal line. If that was the case then that means there was
water pretty high in the cave, In retrospect maybe it was just bat marks
but the line was very straight with no projections to grab on toSteve


On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 2:47 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 A caver in the San Antonio area once told me ( while sittiing around the
 camp-fire in 1995 ) that they were in a cave in or near Bexar County
 and saw claw marks on the wall, that were made by an animal that
 appeared to be taller than a man and appeared the animal was trying to
 climb out of the cave.I think he said it was a short pit
 entrance, and there were no bones in the cave of such animal.

 My fuzzy memory is that in this conversation he mentioned a Chivos Cave,
 but
 I don't know if that was the one he was referring to.

 I think he said there were 4 scratch marks on each hand though.

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Re: [Texascavers] Solo Caving

[Steve Keselik]

While this thread is still running I would like to reiterate,if you're
going to do some thing adventurous solo from
caving,climbing,boating,hiking,biking ,back country sking to useing a chain
saw,leave a detailed note somewhere and if you can have a contact person to
call on your return all the better. A few clues are better than none.And
always wear a PFD on the water it saves a lot of effort on the
rescue/recovery team.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

 Love it. One Xmas/New Years trip to a cave in Mexico, my friend Michael
 and I and our half dozen newbies got caught in a bat exodus which lasted
 more than 45 min. We tried hunkering down in side passages trying to keep
 from getting pooped on--not entirely successfully.

  Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:25:32 -0400
  To: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu; ca...@caver.net
  From: pw...@dca.net
  CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Solo Caving

 
  Many, many years ago (1973?) I was in Waynesville MO over the
  Christmas holiday on leave from the Army. I didn't know any cavers
  there anymore, but did want to visit Christmas Cave which is listed
  in J. Harlan Bretz' Caves of Missouri. Since it was a horizontal cave
  I figured I could at least check it out.
 
  So I drove up the valley, parked and walked across the field to the
  cave entrance which was a large walk-in with standing water in the
  entrance. Several cows were sheltering just inside. I crossed the
  entrance and began hands and knees crawling the meandering stream
  bed. I had 3 sources of light, etc., etc., but I do know I did not
  feel entirely comfortable.
 
  After about an hour of crawling the passage seem to be getting
  smaller and I was getting tired. Then I turned the next corner and
  someone had left a small red  white sign on the side saying How
  sweet it is!. I laughed and turned around to go out.
 
  As I near the water in the front I heard what sounded like a large
  flying something coming from inside the cave and getting closer and
  closer. I really, really was creeped out thinking it a huge bat or
  something. It was an owl and its wings were echoing off the walls
  magnifying the sound.
 
  I've never soloed again.
 
  Phil
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] Re: Mallory

[Steve Keselik]

Give David a break,are you down there offering support?

On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Edward Gelsone egels...@satx.rr.com wrote:

 Here Here!

 ** **

 *From:* Sheryl Rieck [mailto:sheryl.ri...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:23 AM
 *To:* Bill Steele
 *Cc:* David; Cavers Texas
 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Re: Mallory

 ** **

 I believe Mallory's mother has expressed the desire for visitors. It is
 not up to anyone other than her family to say who can and cannot visit. **
 **

 ** **

 Sheryl

 Sent from my iPhone-Resistance was futile. 


 On Aug 2, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Bill Steele speleoste...@aol.com wrote:

 David,

 ** **

 Will you please steer clear of the Mallory situation? I'm asking you
 nicely. This isn't about you. Please leave her family alone. 

 ** **

 Bill Steele

 Sent from my iPhone


 On Aug 2, 2013, at 7:07 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Early Friday evening, I visited with Mallory's mom for about 2 minutes in
 the waiting room.

 I didn't get to see Mallory, but another caver was there earlier.

 Mallory's dad will be with her this weekend.

 Mallory's mom is hopeful they will move her out of ICU by Monday, but just
 to a regular room until she gets transferred to the rehab center.  That
 could all happen sooner.

 Mallory is not currently on any painkillers, or exotic meds.

 Since her mom is posting details, I will let
 her tell the rest of the good news

 David Locklear

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Mallory

[Steve Keselik]

Give David a break,are you down there offering support?

On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Edward Gelsone egels...@satx.rr.com wrote:

 Here Here!

 ** **

 *From:* Sheryl Rieck [mailto:sheryl.ri...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Saturday, August 03, 2013 8:23 AM
 *To:* Bill Steele
 *Cc:* David; Cavers Texas
 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Re: Mallory

 ** **

 I believe Mallory's mother has expressed the desire for visitors. It is
 not up to anyone other than her family to say who can and cannot visit. **
 **

 ** **

 Sheryl

 Sent from my iPhone-Resistance was futile. 


 On Aug 2, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Bill Steele speleoste...@aol.com wrote:

 David,

 ** **

 Will you please steer clear of the Mallory situation? I'm asking you
 nicely. This isn't about you. Please leave her family alone. 

 ** **

 Bill Steele

 Sent from my iPhone


 On Aug 2, 2013, at 7:07 PM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Early Friday evening, I visited with Mallory's mom for about 2 minutes in
 the waiting room.

 I didn't get to see Mallory, but another caver was there earlier.

 Mallory's dad will be with her this weekend.

 Mallory's mom is hopeful they will move her out of ICU by Monday, but just
 to a regular room until she gets transferred to the rehab center.  That
 could all happen sooner.

 Mallory is not currently on any painkillers, or exotic meds.

 Since her mom is posting details, I will let
 her tell the rest of the good news

 David Locklear

Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

[Steve Keselik]

I don't know how the Jew thing got started but let's keep to the subject at
hand,far as I can tell Gill's no Jew. All the best Gill on a speedy
recovery.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:

 Oops! Some of us were never good spelers. :)

 On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Louise Power wrote:

 I assume you're all talking about a concussion, *not* a circumcision (two
 entirely different ends of the body). I'm surprised Gill could get a
 concussion with his hard head.

 Louise

 --
 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:14:29 -0500
 From: wavyca...@gmail.com
 To: pw...@dca.net
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

 I hear it's really tough to have a concision after the age of puberty...

 (But you certainly don't have to be jewish to have a jewish obstetrician.)


 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:

 When I had my concision I couldn't walk for a year.


 At 8/1/2013 11:27 AM -0500, you wrote:

 Yeah - I guess they decided to do the concision just to be safe


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:16 PM, R D Milhollin rdmilhol...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 I didn't realize he got hurt THERE. I didn't even know he was Jewish.


 From: Galen Falgout galenfalg...@yahoo.com 
 To: James Jasek caver...@hot.rr.com
 Cc: Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com ; TexasCavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

 Gill is alright they are keeping him over night to watch his concision. He
 should be home tomorrow

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 31, 2013, at 9:18 PM, James Jasek caver...@hot.rr.com wrote:

 Galen,

 How about some details on the fall and an update on how he is doing right
 now?

 Jim
 On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Galen Falgout wrote:

 He got 19 stitches in us head and had 10 fractured ribs. He may be in pain
 but he is his usual self!

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:07 PM, Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Thank you! I'm glad he is aright.

 Sheryl


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Justin Leigh Shaw jus...@oztotl.net
 wrote:
 Gill says he is OK.
 He was helping with a dig project in southwest Austin when he fell down a
 10ft pit.
 He self rescued from a depth of about 40ft.
 Cooperative and professional Austin Fire Department first responders took
 good care of him from there.
 Justin




 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6042 - Release Date: 08/01/13

Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

[Steve Keselik]

I don't know how the Jew thing got started but let's keep to the subject at
hand,far as I can tell Gill's no Jew. All the best Gill on a speedy
recovery.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:

 Oops! Some of us were never good spelers. :)

 On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Louise Power wrote:

 I assume you're all talking about a concussion, *not* a circumcision (two
 entirely different ends of the body). I'm surprised Gill could get a
 concussion with his hard head.

 Louise

 --
 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:14:29 -0500
 From: wavyca...@gmail.com
 To: pw...@dca.net
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

 I hear it's really tough to have a concision after the age of puberty...

 (But you certainly don't have to be jewish to have a jewish obstetrician.)


 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:

 When I had my concision I couldn't walk for a year.


 At 8/1/2013 11:27 AM -0500, you wrote:

 Yeah - I guess they decided to do the concision just to be safe


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:16 PM, R D Milhollin rdmilhol...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 I didn't realize he got hurt THERE. I didn't even know he was Jewish.


 From: Galen Falgout galenfalg...@yahoo.com 
 To: James Jasek caver...@hot.rr.com
 Cc: Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com ; TexasCavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

 Gill is alright they are keeping him over night to watch his concision. He
 should be home tomorrow

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 31, 2013, at 9:18 PM, James Jasek caver...@hot.rr.com wrote:

 Galen,

 How about some details on the fall and an update on how he is doing right
 now?

 Jim
 On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Galen Falgout wrote:

 He got 19 stitches in us head and had 10 fractured ribs. He may be in pain
 but he is his usual self!

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:07 PM, Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Thank you! I'm glad he is aright.

 Sheryl


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Justin Leigh Shaw jus...@oztotl.net
 wrote:
 Gill says he is OK.
 He was helping with a dig project in southwest Austin when he fell down a
 10ft pit.
 He self rescued from a depth of about 40ft.
 Cooperative and professional Austin Fire Department first responders took
 good care of him from there.
 Justin




 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6042 - Release Date: 08/01/13

Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

[Steve Keselik]

I don't know how the Jew thing got started but let's keep to the subject at
hand,far as I can tell Gill's no Jew. All the best Gill on a speedy
recovery.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:

 Oops! Some of us were never good spelers. :)

 On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:18 PM, Louise Power wrote:

 I assume you're all talking about a concussion, *not* a circumcision (two
 entirely different ends of the body). I'm surprised Gill could get a
 concussion with his hard head.

 Louise

 --
 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 13:14:29 -0500
 From: wavyca...@gmail.com
 To: pw...@dca.net
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

 I hear it's really tough to have a concision after the age of puberty...

 (But you certainly don't have to be jewish to have a jewish obstetrician.)


 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net wrote:

 When I had my concision I couldn't walk for a year.


 At 8/1/2013 11:27 AM -0500, you wrote:

 Yeah - I guess they decided to do the concision just to be safe


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 11:16 PM, R D Milhollin rdmilhol...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 I didn't realize he got hurt THERE. I didn't even know he was Jewish.


 From: Galen Falgout galenfalg...@yahoo.com 
 To: James Jasek caver...@hot.rr.com
 Cc: Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com ; TexasCavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com texascavers@texascavers.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Gill Edigar

 Gill is alright they are keeping him over night to watch his concision. He
 should be home tomorrow

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 31, 2013, at 9:18 PM, James Jasek caver...@hot.rr.com wrote:

 Galen,

 How about some details on the fall and an update on how he is doing right
 now?

 Jim
 On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Galen Falgout wrote:

 He got 19 stitches in us head and had 10 fractured ribs. He may be in pain
 but he is his usual self!

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:07 PM, Sheryl Rieck sheryl.ri...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Thank you! I'm glad he is aright.

 Sheryl


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Justin Leigh Shaw jus...@oztotl.net
 wrote:
 Gill says he is OK.
 He was helping with a dig project in southwest Austin when he fell down a
 10ft pit.
 He self rescued from a depth of about 40ft.
 Cooperative and professional Austin Fire Department first responders took
 good care of him from there.
 Justin




 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6042 - Release Date: 08/01/13

Re: [Texascavers] trip report: O-9 Well on 2013-01-12

[Steve Keselik]

What was wrong with the last re-survey we took part in back in the late
90's ? I'm pretty sure I could come up with our notes of the upstream
passage including the little side passage. Steve

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net wrote:

 Howdy y'all,

 We had a successful continuation of our re-survey of O-9 Well last
 weekend. All previously ('98-'10 or so) surveyed passage has now been
 re-surveyed, the data is being scanned and backed up as we speak, and
 the tasks that remain are: a) surveying the previously not surveyed (but
 explored) parts of a continuing lead, and b) drafting the upstream part
 of the map.

 Getting to the cave in the dark yielded a surprise: the last part of the
 road is now free of any obstacles that would prevent 2-wheel drive
 low-clearance cars from making it to the cave entrance. Apparently a
 result of the vibroseis studies that were performed there last year. The
 grazing lessee is down to 21 cattle, he sold the rest a while ago since
 it's too expensive to feed them in the ongoing drought.

 Anyway, Saturday morning saw the slow organization of three survey
 teams, and with the last person being finally in the cave shortly after
 noon, the following feats were accomplished:

 Saj Zappitello, Ben Hutchins, and Tom Rogers accepted the task to survey
 a side lead taking off from the main upstream passage for over 110
 meters, before running into technical difficulties with gear that was
 inadequate for being stuck in a tiny passage frequently described on the
 sketch as small muddy water for a prolonged time. The passage
 continues. They then proceeded to dig at a high lead in the main
 upstream passage, which sadly remains too tight to let humans go anywhere.

 Andrea Croskrey, with Jill Orr and Matt Zappitello, surveyed the main
 upstream passage from where a previous survey trip had ended, toward the
 upstream sump, for 188.4 meters in (typically) knee-high water with a
 ceiling not high enough to stand, and mud (mixed with sand from what may
 have been calcite rafts?) constantly trying to snatch everyone's boots
 from their feet.

 David Ochel took Geoff Hoese and Bennett Lee to the upstream sump, from
 where they proceeded to survey out toward Andrea's team for 232.8 meters
 in similar conditions.

 Andrea's and David's team finally tied into each other's survey around 7
 pm, completing the re-survey of all main passage of O-9 Well. While most
 folks made their way to the entrance (exit!) after this, Bennett and
 David proceeded to tour the downstream part of O-9 Well. David got to be
 thankful for having practiced change-overs so much when messing around
 with a drop that needed re-rigging due to a frayed rope, while Bennett
 wished he had brought his rope-walker (or frogging gear?) for the longer
 drops. They got out of the cave just before midnight.

 A line plot of the current survey status can be found here:

 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wu__YDjGkPo/UPX6wvbLETI/Adg/QkbwAqBnnxs/s640/2013-01-15_O-9_survey_status.png

 Cheers,
 David

 --
 David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-

 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] trip report: O-9 Well on 2013-01-12

[Steve Keselik]

I'll check with the other members of Team Troglobrau, as my notes burned up
in the fire.Steve

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net wrote:

 Hi Steve,

 Exciting!

 The main thing wrong with it was that I was not able to get a hold of
 a complete set of the notes, and that some of the sketches I did get
 were not easy to read for me. (In fact, I was told that the notes for
 the side lead were completely lost; that data is not even in the Walls
 files from the late-90s survey.) I'd be very glad to see your notes if
 it wasn't too much effort for you to come up with them!

 Cheers,
 David

 On 1/16/13 9:12 AM, Steve Keselik wrote:
  What was wrong with the last re-survey we took part in back in the late
  90's ? I'm pretty sure I could come up with our notes of the upstream
  passage including the little side passage. Steve
 
  On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net
  mailto:li...@ochel.net wrote:
 
  Howdy y'all,
 
  We had a successful continuation of our re-survey of O-9 Well last
  weekend. All previously ('98-'10 or so) surveyed passage has now been
  re-surveyed, the data is being scanned and backed up as we speak, and
  the tasks that remain are: a) surveying the previously not surveyed
 (but
  explored) parts of a continuing lead, and b) drafting the upstream
 part
  of the map.
 
  Getting to the cave in the dark yielded a surprise: the last part of
 the
  road is now free of any obstacles that would prevent 2-wheel drive
  low-clearance cars from making it to the cave entrance. Apparently a
  result of the vibroseis studies that were performed there last year.
 The
  grazing lessee is down to 21 cattle, he sold the rest a while ago
 since
  it's too expensive to feed them in the ongoing drought.
 
  Anyway, Saturday morning saw the slow organization of three survey
  teams, and with the last person being finally in the cave shortly
 after
  noon, the following feats were accomplished:
 
  Saj Zappitello, Ben Hutchins, and Tom Rogers accepted the task to
 survey
  a side lead taking off from the main upstream passage for over 110
  meters, before running into technical difficulties with gear that was
  inadequate for being stuck in a tiny passage frequently described on
 the
  sketch as small muddy water for a prolonged time. The passage
  continues. They then proceeded to dig at a high lead in the main
  upstream passage, which sadly remains too tight to let humans go
  anywhere.
 
  Andrea Croskrey, with Jill Orr and Matt Zappitello, surveyed the main
  upstream passage from where a previous survey trip had ended, toward
 the
  upstream sump, for 188.4 meters in (typically) knee-high water with a
  ceiling not high enough to stand, and mud (mixed with sand from what
 may
  have been calcite rafts?) constantly trying to snatch everyone's
 boots
  from their feet.
 
  David Ochel took Geoff Hoese and Bennett Lee to the upstream sump,
 from
  where they proceeded to survey out toward Andrea's team for 232.8
 meters
  in similar conditions.
 
  Andrea's and David's team finally tied into each other's survey
 around 7
  pm, completing the re-survey of all main passage of O-9 Well. While
 most
  folks made their way to the entrance (exit!) after this, Bennett and
  David proceeded to tour the downstream part of O-9 Well. David got
 to be
  thankful for having practiced change-overs so much when messing
 around
  with a drop that needed re-rigging due to a frayed rope, while
 Bennett
  wished he had brought his rope-walker (or frogging gear?) for the
 longer
  drops. They got out of the cave just before midnight.
 
  A line plot of the current survey status can be found here:
 
 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wu__YDjGkPo/UPX6wvbLETI/Adg/QkbwAqBnnxs/s640/2013-01-15_O-9_survey_status.png
 
  Cheers,
  David
 
  --
  David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-
 
  -
  Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  mailto:texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
  mailto:texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
 

 --
 David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-

Re: [Texascavers] trip report: O-9 Well on 2013-01-12

[Steve Keselik]

What was wrong with the last re-survey we took part in back in the late
90's ? I'm pretty sure I could come up with our notes of the upstream
passage including the little side passage. Steve

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net wrote:

 Howdy y'all,

 We had a successful continuation of our re-survey of O-9 Well last
 weekend. All previously ('98-'10 or so) surveyed passage has now been
 re-surveyed, the data is being scanned and backed up as we speak, and
 the tasks that remain are: a) surveying the previously not surveyed (but
 explored) parts of a continuing lead, and b) drafting the upstream part
 of the map.

 Getting to the cave in the dark yielded a surprise: the last part of the
 road is now free of any obstacles that would prevent 2-wheel drive
 low-clearance cars from making it to the cave entrance. Apparently a
 result of the vibroseis studies that were performed there last year. The
 grazing lessee is down to 21 cattle, he sold the rest a while ago since
 it's too expensive to feed them in the ongoing drought.

 Anyway, Saturday morning saw the slow organization of three survey
 teams, and with the last person being finally in the cave shortly after
 noon, the following feats were accomplished:

 Saj Zappitello, Ben Hutchins, and Tom Rogers accepted the task to survey
 a side lead taking off from the main upstream passage for over 110
 meters, before running into technical difficulties with gear that was
 inadequate for being stuck in a tiny passage frequently described on the
 sketch as small muddy water for a prolonged time. The passage
 continues. They then proceeded to dig at a high lead in the main
 upstream passage, which sadly remains too tight to let humans go anywhere.

 Andrea Croskrey, with Jill Orr and Matt Zappitello, surveyed the main
 upstream passage from where a previous survey trip had ended, toward the
 upstream sump, for 188.4 meters in (typically) knee-high water with a
 ceiling not high enough to stand, and mud (mixed with sand from what may
 have been calcite rafts?) constantly trying to snatch everyone's boots
 from their feet.

 David Ochel took Geoff Hoese and Bennett Lee to the upstream sump, from
 where they proceeded to survey out toward Andrea's team for 232.8 meters
 in similar conditions.

 Andrea's and David's team finally tied into each other's survey around 7
 pm, completing the re-survey of all main passage of O-9 Well. While most
 folks made their way to the entrance (exit!) after this, Bennett and
 David proceeded to tour the downstream part of O-9 Well. David got to be
 thankful for having practiced change-overs so much when messing around
 with a drop that needed re-rigging due to a frayed rope, while Bennett
 wished he had brought his rope-walker (or frogging gear?) for the longer
 drops. They got out of the cave just before midnight.

 A line plot of the current survey status can be found here:

 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wu__YDjGkPo/UPX6wvbLETI/Adg/QkbwAqBnnxs/s640/2013-01-15_O-9_survey_status.png

 Cheers,
 David

 --
 David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-

 -
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] trip report: O-9 Well on 2013-01-12

[Steve Keselik]

I'll check with the other members of Team Troglobrau, as my notes burned up
in the fire.Steve

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net wrote:

 Hi Steve,

 Exciting!

 The main thing wrong with it was that I was not able to get a hold of
 a complete set of the notes, and that some of the sketches I did get
 were not easy to read for me. (In fact, I was told that the notes for
 the side lead were completely lost; that data is not even in the Walls
 files from the late-90s survey.) I'd be very glad to see your notes if
 it wasn't too much effort for you to come up with them!

 Cheers,
 David

 On 1/16/13 9:12 AM, Steve Keselik wrote:
  What was wrong with the last re-survey we took part in back in the late
  90's ? I'm pretty sure I could come up with our notes of the upstream
  passage including the little side passage. Steve
 
  On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net
  mailto:li...@ochel.net wrote:
 
  Howdy y'all,
 
  We had a successful continuation of our re-survey of O-9 Well last
  weekend. All previously ('98-'10 or so) surveyed passage has now been
  re-surveyed, the data is being scanned and backed up as we speak, and
  the tasks that remain are: a) surveying the previously not surveyed
 (but
  explored) parts of a continuing lead, and b) drafting the upstream
 part
  of the map.
 
  Getting to the cave in the dark yielded a surprise: the last part of
 the
  road is now free of any obstacles that would prevent 2-wheel drive
  low-clearance cars from making it to the cave entrance. Apparently a
  result of the vibroseis studies that were performed there last year.
 The
  grazing lessee is down to 21 cattle, he sold the rest a while ago
 since
  it's too expensive to feed them in the ongoing drought.
 
  Anyway, Saturday morning saw the slow organization of three survey
  teams, and with the last person being finally in the cave shortly
 after
  noon, the following feats were accomplished:
 
  Saj Zappitello, Ben Hutchins, and Tom Rogers accepted the task to
 survey
  a side lead taking off from the main upstream passage for over 110
  meters, before running into technical difficulties with gear that was
  inadequate for being stuck in a tiny passage frequently described on
 the
  sketch as small muddy water for a prolonged time. The passage
  continues. They then proceeded to dig at a high lead in the main
  upstream passage, which sadly remains too tight to let humans go
  anywhere.
 
  Andrea Croskrey, with Jill Orr and Matt Zappitello, surveyed the main
  upstream passage from where a previous survey trip had ended, toward
 the
  upstream sump, for 188.4 meters in (typically) knee-high water with a
  ceiling not high enough to stand, and mud (mixed with sand from what
 may
  have been calcite rafts?) constantly trying to snatch everyone's
 boots
  from their feet.
 
  David Ochel took Geoff Hoese and Bennett Lee to the upstream sump,
 from
  where they proceeded to survey out toward Andrea's team for 232.8
 meters
  in similar conditions.
 
  Andrea's and David's team finally tied into each other's survey
 around 7
  pm, completing the re-survey of all main passage of O-9 Well. While
 most
  folks made their way to the entrance (exit!) after this, Bennett and
  David proceeded to tour the downstream part of O-9 Well. David got
 to be
  thankful for having practiced change-overs so much when messing
 around
  with a drop that needed re-rigging due to a frayed rope, while
 Bennett
  wished he had brought his rope-walker (or frogging gear?) for the
 longer
  drops. They got out of the cave just before midnight.
 
  A line plot of the current survey status can be found here:
 
 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wu__YDjGkPo/UPX6wvbLETI/Adg/QkbwAqBnnxs/s640/2013-01-15_O-9_survey_status.png
 
  Cheers,
  David
 
  --
  David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-
 
  -
  Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  mailto:texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
  mailto:texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
 

 --
 David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-

Re: [Texascavers] trip report: O-9 Well on 2013-01-12

[Steve Keselik]

I'll check with the other members of Team Troglobrau, as my notes burned up
in the fire.Steve

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:49 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net wrote:

 Hi Steve,

 Exciting!

 The main thing wrong with it was that I was not able to get a hold of
 a complete set of the notes, and that some of the sketches I did get
 were not easy to read for me. (In fact, I was told that the notes for
 the side lead were completely lost; that data is not even in the Walls
 files from the late-90s survey.) I'd be very glad to see your notes if
 it wasn't too much effort for you to come up with them!

 Cheers,
 David

 On 1/16/13 9:12 AM, Steve Keselik wrote:
  What was wrong with the last re-survey we took part in back in the late
  90's ? I'm pretty sure I could come up with our notes of the upstream
  passage including the little side passage. Steve
 
  On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM, David Ochel li...@ochel.net
  mailto:li...@ochel.net wrote:
 
  Howdy y'all,
 
  We had a successful continuation of our re-survey of O-9 Well last
  weekend. All previously ('98-'10 or so) surveyed passage has now been
  re-surveyed, the data is being scanned and backed up as we speak, and
  the tasks that remain are: a) surveying the previously not surveyed
 (but
  explored) parts of a continuing lead, and b) drafting the upstream
 part
  of the map.
 
  Getting to the cave in the dark yielded a surprise: the last part of
 the
  road is now free of any obstacles that would prevent 2-wheel drive
  low-clearance cars from making it to the cave entrance. Apparently a
  result of the vibroseis studies that were performed there last year.
 The
  grazing lessee is down to 21 cattle, he sold the rest a while ago
 since
  it's too expensive to feed them in the ongoing drought.
 
  Anyway, Saturday morning saw the slow organization of three survey
  teams, and with the last person being finally in the cave shortly
 after
  noon, the following feats were accomplished:
 
  Saj Zappitello, Ben Hutchins, and Tom Rogers accepted the task to
 survey
  a side lead taking off from the main upstream passage for over 110
  meters, before running into technical difficulties with gear that was
  inadequate for being stuck in a tiny passage frequently described on
 the
  sketch as small muddy water for a prolonged time. The passage
  continues. They then proceeded to dig at a high lead in the main
  upstream passage, which sadly remains too tight to let humans go
  anywhere.
 
  Andrea Croskrey, with Jill Orr and Matt Zappitello, surveyed the main
  upstream passage from where a previous survey trip had ended, toward
 the
  upstream sump, for 188.4 meters in (typically) knee-high water with a
  ceiling not high enough to stand, and mud (mixed with sand from what
 may
  have been calcite rafts?) constantly trying to snatch everyone's
 boots
  from their feet.
 
  David Ochel took Geoff Hoese and Bennett Lee to the upstream sump,
 from
  where they proceeded to survey out toward Andrea's team for 232.8
 meters
  in similar conditions.
 
  Andrea's and David's team finally tied into each other's survey
 around 7
  pm, completing the re-survey of all main passage of O-9 Well. While
 most
  folks made their way to the entrance (exit!) after this, Bennett and
  David proceeded to tour the downstream part of O-9 Well. David got
 to be
  thankful for having practiced change-overs so much when messing
 around
  with a drop that needed re-rigging due to a frayed rope, while
 Bennett
  wished he had brought his rope-walker (or frogging gear?) for the
 longer
  drops. They got out of the cave just before midnight.
 
  A line plot of the current survey status can be found here:
 
 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wu__YDjGkPo/UPX6wvbLETI/Adg/QkbwAqBnnxs/s640/2013-01-15_O-9_survey_status.png
 
  Cheers,
  David
 
  --
  David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-
 
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 --
 David Ochel -= http://blog.ochel.net =-

Re: [Texascavers] end of the world

[Steve Keselik]

Are you offering?Should be plenty there if you're willing to hike for
it,at least you'll feel like you're dead for the first hour or
so,then.!

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Benjamin Yasui benya...@gmail.com wrote:
 Who's bringing the Kool-aid?


 On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:

 I think the Mayans, like most of the American Indians, were not
 usually in too much of a hurry. Take you time with the celebrating.
 I'm going casual for this one.
 --Ediger


 On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Steve Keselik skese...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm pretty sure this is a multi day event so take your pick
 
  On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
  wrote:
  There are two different correlations between the Maya longcount and the
  Gregorian calendar. 13 0 0 0 0 being December 21 is the favorite in the
  press, probably because of the coincidence with the winter solstice.
  (Actually, the longcount changes at sunset on the previous day.) The
  other
  has it on December 23; this one is preferred by Austin's Mayanist and
  one-time caver Barb MacLeod. Those disappointed that the world has not
  ended
  can party again the evening of the twenty-second, which is,
  conveniently, a
  Saturday. -- Mixon
  
  A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
  
  You may reply to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] end of the world

[Steve Keselik]

Are you offering?Should be plenty there if you're willing to hike for
it,at least you'll feel like you're dead for the first hour or
so,then.!

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Benjamin Yasui benya...@gmail.com wrote:
 Who's bringing the Kool-aid?


 On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:

 I think the Mayans, like most of the American Indians, were not
 usually in too much of a hurry. Take you time with the celebrating.
 I'm going casual for this one.
 --Ediger


 On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Steve Keselik skese...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm pretty sure this is a multi day event so take your pick
 
  On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
  wrote:
  There are two different correlations between the Maya longcount and the
  Gregorian calendar. 13 0 0 0 0 being December 21 is the favorite in the
  press, probably because of the coincidence with the winter solstice.
  (Actually, the longcount changes at sunset on the previous day.) The
  other
  has it on December 23; this one is preferred by Austin's Mayanist and
  one-time caver Barb MacLeod. Those disappointed that the world has not
  ended
  can party again the evening of the twenty-second, which is,
  conveniently, a
  Saturday. -- Mixon
  
  A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
  
  You may reply to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
 
 
  -
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  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] end of the world

[Steve Keselik]

Are you offering?Should be plenty there if you're willing to hike for
it,at least you'll feel like you're dead for the first hour or
so,then.!

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Benjamin Yasui benya...@gmail.com wrote:
 Who's bringing the Kool-aid?


 On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:

 I think the Mayans, like most of the American Indians, were not
 usually in too much of a hurry. Take you time with the celebrating.
 I'm going casual for this one.
 --Ediger


 On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Steve Keselik skese...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm pretty sure this is a multi day event so take your pick
 
  On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
  wrote:
  There are two different correlations between the Maya longcount and the
  Gregorian calendar. 13 0 0 0 0 being December 21 is the favorite in the
  press, probably because of the coincidence with the winter solstice.
  (Actually, the longcount changes at sunset on the previous day.) The
  other
  has it on December 23; this one is preferred by Austin's Mayanist and
  one-time caver Barb MacLeod. Those disappointed that the world has not
  ended
  can party again the evening of the twenty-second, which is,
  conveniently, a
  Saturday. -- Mixon
  
  A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
  
  You may reply to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
 
 
  -
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  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
 
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Re: [Texascavers] end of the world

[Steve Keselik]

I'm pretty sure this is a multi day event so take your pick

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 There are two different correlations between the Maya longcount and the
 Gregorian calendar. 13 0 0 0 0 being December 21 is the favorite in the
 press, probably because of the coincidence with the winter solstice.
 (Actually, the longcount changes at sunset on the previous day.) The other
 has it on December 23; this one is preferred by Austin's Mayanist and
 one-time caver Barb MacLeod. Those disappointed that the world has not ended
 can party again the evening of the twenty-second, which is, conveniently, a
 Saturday. -- Mixon
 
 A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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Re: [Texascavers] end of the world

[Steve Keselik]

I'm pretty sure this is a multi day event so take your pick

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 There are two different correlations between the Maya longcount and the
 Gregorian calendar. 13 0 0 0 0 being December 21 is the favorite in the
 press, probably because of the coincidence with the winter solstice.
 (Actually, the longcount changes at sunset on the previous day.) The other
 has it on December 23; this one is preferred by Austin's Mayanist and
 one-time caver Barb MacLeod. Those disappointed that the world has not ended
 can party again the evening of the twenty-second, which is, conveniently, a
 Saturday. -- Mixon
 
 A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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Re: [Texascavers] end of the world

[Steve Keselik]

I'm pretty sure this is a multi day event so take your pick

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 There are two different correlations between the Maya longcount and the
 Gregorian calendar. 13 0 0 0 0 being December 21 is the favorite in the
 press, probably because of the coincidence with the winter solstice.
 (Actually, the longcount changes at sunset on the previous day.) The other
 has it on December 23; this one is preferred by Austin's Mayanist and
 one-time caver Barb MacLeod. Those disappointed that the world has not ended
 can party again the evening of the twenty-second, which is, conveniently, a
 Saturday. -- Mixon
 
 A chicken is the egg's way of making another egg.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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[Texascavers] End of the world Party

[Steve Keselik]

There will be an end of the world party dec 21 at LaLinda Texas on the
Rio Grande down stream from big bend national park.This should be a
good chance to visit the area and party like there is no tomorrow

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[Texascavers] End of the world Party

[Steve Keselik]

There will be an end of the world party dec 21 at LaLinda Texas on the
Rio Grande down stream from big bend national park.This should be a
good chance to visit the area and party like there is no tomorrow

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[Texascavers] End of the world Party

[Steve Keselik]

There will be an end of the world party dec 21 at LaLinda Texas on the
Rio Grande down stream from big bend national park.This should be a
good chance to visit the area and party like there is no tomorrow

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Re: [Texascavers] blue moon

[Steve Keselik]

Whats the name of this moon,Steve

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 8:14 AM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:
 There seems to be a bit of contention about exactly what a Blue Moon
 is. Some say it's 2 full moons in a month--there have been several of
 them in the past few years. Others say that historically it is the 3rd
 full moon in a 3 month quarter that has 4 full moons. At any rate,
 there are almost exactly 13 full moons in any 365-day cycle that
 starts with a full moon--which happens every 28 days. So, every
 calendar year doesn't necessarily have 13 of um. To complicate that,
 the months have to line up with the moon, as well. If the cycles are
 close enough we could have 2 blue moons in a 12-month period, I think.
 Didn't we have a February Blue Moon just last year?
 --Ediger

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Tomorrow (Friday) night is a blue moon, the second full moon in a calendar
 month. Sounds like an excuse for a once in a blue moon party. Anybody
 having one?

 The next blue moon will be in July 2015. -- Mixon
 
 Forgive your enemies . . . after they are hanged.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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Re: [Texascavers] blue moon

[Steve Keselik]

Whats the name of this moon,Steve

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 8:14 AM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net wrote:
 There seems to be a bit of contention about exactly what a Blue Moon
 is. Some say it's 2 full moons in a month--there have been several of
 them in the past few years. Others say that historically it is the 3rd
 full moon in a 3 month quarter that has 4 full moons. At any rate,
 there are almost exactly 13 full moons in any 365-day cycle that
 starts with a full moon--which happens every 28 days. So, every
 calendar year doesn't necessarily have 13 of um. To complicate that,
 the months have to line up with the moon, as well. If the cycles are
 close enough we could have 2 blue moons in a 12-month period, I think.
 Didn't we have a February Blue Moon just last year?
 --Ediger

 On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Tomorrow (Friday) night is a blue moon, the second full moon in a calendar
 month. Sounds like an excuse for a once in a blue moon party. Anybody
 having one?

 The next blue moon will be in July 2015. -- Mixon
 
 Forgive your enemies . . . after they are hanged.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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Re: [Texascavers] How to save your house from wildfire

[Steve Keselik]

I guess a wildfire is different than a fire storm of burning volatile
gas.After sustaining a direct hit of over 6500 acres of burning state
park pines,yaupons and cedars and losing every thing. I know that
there was nothing but Gods right hand that could have stopped it.I've
helped rebuild at least one home that was in the middle of 100 acres
of cleared land.When the sky is on fire 75 to 100 feet in the air and
raining sparks and embers over ten miles away there isn't much you can
do but get out of the way.I would encourage every one to follow the
tips listed and also up your home owners insurance.The wound is still
fresh,but I did get to live in paradise for 28 years and am still
alive because it wasn't a surprise after the drought and 45 mile an
hour winds.Steve

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:
 I know that last year's fires caught most of you by surprise and some of you
 lost most of your belongings or everything. I have worked for the Bureau of
 Land Management for more than 30 years during which time I was an
 information officer and information officer instructor for a multiagency
 group. I don't have a lot of money to pass on to those of you who had
 losses, but I do have information which can be almost as valuable. I would
 like to refer you to the two sites below as a jumping off place for those of
 you who are rebuilding and those who want to know what to do to help
 safeguard your property. There are other links on these sites which can also
 be valuable.

 http://www.firewise.org/


 http://www.nifc.gov/prevEdu/prevEdu_main.html


 I hope none of you ever have to go through this again.


 Louise

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Re: [Texascavers] How to save your house from wildfire

[Steve Keselik]

I guess a wildfire is different than a fire storm of burning volatile
gas.After sustaining a direct hit of over 6500 acres of burning state
park pines,yaupons and cedars and losing every thing. I know that
there was nothing but Gods right hand that could have stopped it.I've
helped rebuild at least one home that was in the middle of 100 acres
of cleared land.When the sky is on fire 75 to 100 feet in the air and
raining sparks and embers over ten miles away there isn't much you can
do but get out of the way.I would encourage every one to follow the
tips listed and also up your home owners insurance.The wound is still
fresh,but I did get to live in paradise for 28 years and am still
alive because it wasn't a surprise after the drought and 45 mile an
hour winds.Steve

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:
 I know that last year's fires caught most of you by surprise and some of you
 lost most of your belongings or everything. I have worked for the Bureau of
 Land Management for more than 30 years during which time I was an
 information officer and information officer instructor for a multiagency
 group. I don't have a lot of money to pass on to those of you who had
 losses, but I do have information which can be almost as valuable. I would
 like to refer you to the two sites below as a jumping off place for those of
 you who are rebuilding and those who want to know what to do to help
 safeguard your property. There are other links on these sites which can also
 be valuable.

 http://www.firewise.org/


 http://www.nifc.gov/prevEdu/prevEdu_main.html


 I hope none of you ever have to go through this again.


 Louise

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Re: [Texascavers] How to save your house from wildfire

[Steve Keselik]

I guess a wildfire is different than a fire storm of burning volatile
gas.After sustaining a direct hit of over 6500 acres of burning state
park pines,yaupons and cedars and losing every thing. I know that
there was nothing but Gods right hand that could have stopped it.I've
helped rebuild at least one home that was in the middle of 100 acres
of cleared land.When the sky is on fire 75 to 100 feet in the air and
raining sparks and embers over ten miles away there isn't much you can
do but get out of the way.I would encourage every one to follow the
tips listed and also up your home owners insurance.The wound is still
fresh,but I did get to live in paradise for 28 years and am still
alive because it wasn't a surprise after the drought and 45 mile an
hour winds.Steve

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.com wrote:
 I know that last year's fires caught most of you by surprise and some of you
 lost most of your belongings or everything. I have worked for the Bureau of
 Land Management for more than 30 years during which time I was an
 information officer and information officer instructor for a multiagency
 group. I don't have a lot of money to pass on to those of you who had
 losses, but I do have information which can be almost as valuable. I would
 like to refer you to the two sites below as a jumping off place for those of
 you who are rebuilding and those who want to know what to do to help
 safeguard your property. There are other links on these sites which can also
 be valuable.

 http://www.firewise.org/


 http://www.nifc.gov/prevEdu/prevEdu_main.html


 I hope none of you ever have to go through this again.


 Louise

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[Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[Steve Keselik]

 I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult
life ,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised
 because of toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for
haulin A out of there and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer
for Dow , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you.



On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:

  My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or
 in a government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never
 heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM,
 we're required to take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical
 here in Oregon and other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent
 on public lands.

 :-( Louise


  There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is
 called the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be
 read BEFORE you open the container or apply the stuff!

 E ^v^

  *From:* Louise Power
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
 *To:* Geary Schindel ; Bill Mixon ; Texas Cavers
 *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

  Wait!!!  You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! After all,
 Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.

   From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
  To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 -0500
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
 
  Folks,
 
  I agree with Bill, when using solvent based paints (or for that matter,
 any hazards material) in a confined space, it is much quicker, easier and
 cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded any health related
 chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or canaries. Most of
 the time, most folks become violently ill before they actually die. While
 this is not the recommended method by the American Council of Governmental
 Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often used by
 industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at
 least a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures
 such as an increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably
 won't be working for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem.
 
  Matter of fact, with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by
 allowing humans in a contaminated work area without respirators, they
 actually help clean the air as the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers
 or silica (good for the room, bad for the lungs). If you would like to see
 an excellent presentation on silicoses and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West
 Virginia and the largest industrial accident in US History, you may want to
 visit Helen Lang's web page
 http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf
 
  I'm sure that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels
 and safety precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe
 for use in a confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about
 using the product only in well ventilated areas was just to protect them
 from lawsuits.
 
  Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in recent
 years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In addition, there
 are a number of powerful animal rights groups that help protect their
 interests (wonder how that would work for humans). The correct method would
 be to develop a health and safety plan that would require proper
 environmental controls such as ventilation, selecting appropriate
 chemicals, using protective equipment, closing down the facility, and air
 monitoring. However, that all costs time and money.
 
  G
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 AM
  To: Cavers Texas
  Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
 
  The fact that a few staff had to be taken to hospital does not prove
 that there was any real danger or there were any real inju

[Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[Steve Keselik]

 I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult
life ,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised
 because of toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for
haulin A out of there and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer
for Dow , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you.



On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:

  My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or
 in a government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never
 heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM,
 we're required to take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical
 here in Oregon and other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent
 on public lands.

 :-( Louise


  There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is
 called the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be
 read BEFORE you open the container or apply the stuff!

 E ^v^

  *From:* Louise Power
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
 *To:* Geary Schindel ; Bill Mixon ; Texas Cavers
 *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

  Wait!!!  You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! After all,
 Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.

   From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
  To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 -0500
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
 
  Folks,
 
  I agree with Bill, when using solvent based paints (or for that matter,
 any hazards material) in a confined space, it is much quicker, easier and
 cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded any health related
 chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or canaries. Most of
 the time, most folks become violently ill before they actually die. While
 this is not the recommended method by the American Council of Governmental
 Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often used by
 industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at
 least a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures
 such as an increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably
 won't be working for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem.
 
  Matter of fact, with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by
 allowing humans in a contaminated work area without respirators, they
 actually help clean the air as the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers
 or silica (good for the room, bad for the lungs). If you would like to see
 an excellent presentation on silicoses and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West
 Virginia and the largest industrial accident in US History, you may want to
 visit Helen Lang's web page
 http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf
 
  I'm sure that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels
 and safety precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe
 for use in a confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about
 using the product only in well ventilated areas was just to protect them
 from lawsuits.
 
  Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in recent
 years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In addition, there
 are a number of powerful animal rights groups that help protect their
 interests (wonder how that would work for humans). The correct method would
 be to develop a health and safety plan that would require proper
 environmental controls such as ventilation, selecting appropriate
 chemicals, using protective equipment, closing down the facility, and air
 monitoring. However, that all costs time and money.
 
  G
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 AM
  To: Cavers Texas
  Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
 
  The fact that a few staff had to be taken to hospital does not prove
 that there was any real danger or there were any real inju

[Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

[Steve Keselik]

 I don't know what happened CC but I've worked construction all my adult
life ,I couldn't count the times our work envirment became compromised
 because of toxic fumes, just like high co2 levels you're no wimp for
haulin A out of there and even getting checked out.My pop was chem engineer
for Dow , he told me in his latter years that stuff is bad for you.



On Wednesday, July 25, 2012, Louise Power wrote:

  My personal experience has been that folks who don't work in industry or
 in a government agency which has a hazmat specialist on board have never
 heard of an MSDS. Wouldn't know what it meant if they had one. At BLM,
 we're required to take hazmat training once/year. It's especially critical
 here in Oregon and other states where meth labs and dumps are so prominent
 on public lands.

 :-( Louise


  There is an almost sure prevention for this form of stupidity. It is
 called the M.S.D.S., the Material Safety Data Sheet. I is supposed to be
 read BEFORE you open the container or apply the stuff!

 E ^v^

  *From:* Louise Power
 *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:24 AM
 *To:* Geary Schindel ; Bill Mixon ; Texas Cavers
 *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center

  Wait!!!  You mean I sent them all my canaries for nothing?! After all,
 Gary, it's really not a mine anymore.

   From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
  To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:20:57 -0500
  Subject: RE: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
 
  Folks,
 
  I agree with Bill, when using solvent based paints (or for that matter,
 any hazards material) in a confined space, it is much quicker, easier and
 cheaper to use humans to determine if you've exceeded any health related
 chemical thresholds verses real time air monitoring or canaries. Most of
 the time, most folks become violently ill before they actually die. While
 this is not the recommended method by the American Council of Governmental
 Industrial Hygienists, it seems to be the technique most often used by
 industry. When employees get sick, it is probably time to give them at
 least a 15 minute break. You don't have to worry about long term exposures
 such as an increased risk of lung or blood cancers as those folks probably
 won't be working for you in 20 years anyway so not your problem.
 
  Matter of fact, with substances such as asbestos or silica dust, by
 allowing humans in a contaminated work area without respirators, they
 actually help clean the air as the lungs retain some of the asbestos fibers
 or silica (good for the room, bad for the lungs). If you would like to see
 an excellent presentation on silicoses and the Hawks Nest Tunnel in West
 Virginia and the largest industrial accident in US History, you may want to
 visit Helen Lang's web page
 http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~lang/Geol484/HN-shorter.pdf
 
  I'm sure that the contractor read and followed all of the warning labels
 and safety precautions for use of the product and that it was really safe
 for use in a confined environment and that the manufacturers warning about
 using the product only in well ventilated areas was just to protect them
 from lawsuits.
 
  Using canaries for air monitoring has fallen out of favor in recent
 years as they are cute and folks get attached to them. In addition, there
 are a number of powerful animal rights groups that help protect their
 interests (wonder how that would work for humans). The correct method would
 be to develop a health and safety plan that would require proper
 environmental controls such as ventilation, selecting appropriate
 chemicals, using protective equipment, closing down the facility, and air
 monitoring. However, that all costs time and money.
 
  G
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:40 AM
  To: Cavers Texas
  Subject: [Texascavers] fumes in CC visitor center
 
  The fact that a few staff had to be taken to hospital does not prove
 that there was any real danger or there were any real inju

[Texascavers] OT NAHBS

[Steve Keselik]

The North American handmade bicycle show is in Austin this week end.Many
good caving vehicles there and much to ponder

Re: [Texascavers] Anyone headed down to SLP?

[Steve Keselik]

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Terry Holsinger tr...@sprynet.com wrote:

 There are 2 400meter ropes that need a ride to/near SLP before the first of
 February. If anyone is headed south through Austin or San Antonio I can get
 the rope to you and let ya know who to get it to.

 Terry H.

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