[tw] Re: Overly enthusiastic editing warning, and self-determining scroll bars...
Hi Meromo, I tried to replicate your problems on Parallels with windows 7 and ie8. When I open a blank Tiddlywiki version 2.6.5 form my desktop in the virtual environment, I can reproduce the highlighted text issue and I must confirm it sure is incredibly irritating and annoying. It's like half the wiki get's selected whenever you either double click to edit or even when you click the edit button. What's more, the timeline macro doesn't seem to work... it gives me an object error. Then, when I tried to save, I realized that I couldn't. So, I thought, alright ...let's first find a location where it does allow me to save the wiki. So I moved it into my user folder on my virtual c drive. Then it saved fine and the editing as well as the timeline errors were gone! How does that make any sense? As for your scrollbar issues or some annoying unsaved-changes-before- edit message, I couldn't reproduce either. Cheers, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Overly enthusiastic editing warning, and self-determining scroll bars...
Hi My apologies if these issues have already been asked and answered – I haven’t been able to find anything on them. I’m using Windows XP and IE8. Upon downloading a fresh empty Tiddlywiki from tiddlywki.com, saving it to my desktop, unlocking it, and changing the IE option so I don’t get the warning on opening, and having created a few tiddlers, I then always start to encounter a series of issues: * For some previously created tiddlers, when I click edit, they open with the last few letters of the actual title selected; the entire title field selected, and often a portion (or all) of the tags section on the right hand side of the page selected, as though I have dragged over and selected those areas with my mouse. If there is a tiddler above the one I am intending to edit, a portion of that often gets selected as well/instead. * For all other existing tiddlers, whenever I click “edit” in any existing tiddler, I immediately get the “there are unsaved changes, do you want to navigate way from the page” warning. This is before I actually start to edit it. If there is a single line of text in the tiddler it won’t happen, but a random amount of any more than a line or two of text will cause the warning to come up. * When editing a long tiddler, any stray movement of the mouse cursor out of the editing area, such as over the scroll bar or the tags section at the bottom of the tiddler, causes the tiddler’s scrollbar to frenziedly leap upwards - meaning I can no longer see the end of my text. This means I have to very carefully scroll back down, and even more carefully place the mouse cursor to prevent it happening again and again.Rolling my mouse in and out of the tiddler, I can see the scroll bars happily trying to scroll away to some destination of their own choosing... This is at my workplace (which means I can’t change to a better browser or OS), but I also had this at my previous workplace with the same set up. Is there a problem with the Windows XP/IE8 combo that is causing this, or is there some way around it? The last two issues are especially very irritating! Thanks for any help or suggestions. Meromo. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Tackling File Importing in modern browsers
Hi Jon And you 're right ! I was sticking to a legacy FF 3.6.23 because of this "loading" issue Time for me to catch up FF 7 You made my day ! Thanks a lot Julien On Nov 10, 5:38 pm, rakugo wrote: > Hi Julien what version of Firefox are you using? > > In my Firefox everything seems to work fine, but I've made a few > tweaks that could possibly prevent this. > > http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > Note if you see the old user interface for the file importer (ie. no > restart wizard button), it's likely your Firefox version is not up to > date! > > Jon > > On Nov 10, 1:28 pm, julien23 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Rakugo > > > Pleased to see things a step ahead with the import issue > > > I've tried to load your > > http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > in my TW > > > But I get the error log "Error: TypeError: ImportWizard is not a > > function" at refresh. You can have a look here : > > http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > > Am I doing things wrong ? > > Do I miss dependency or version ? > > > My main concern is to get my "Package management" back : > > http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#[[Load%20Package]] > > > Thanks > > > Julien > > > On Nov 9, 5:21 pm, rakugo wrote: > > > > I've had a go at rewriting the TiddlyWiki file importer using the > > > HTML5 file apihttp://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ > > > > It works in Firefox but not Chrome but it seems hopeful. It would be > > > good for others to try it out. > > > > Simply slot this plugin into your shiny new Firefox version which you > > > cannot import from:http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > > and hopefully importing will be possible again... > > > > Let me know how you get on. > > > > See the related issue > > > here:https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/issues/38#issuecomment-2675766 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Business Thought [was: Important Message from Eric]
Jeremy Ruston wrote: Great post, thanks Chris. Your perspective on BT and Osmosoft is very valuable. At some point, Tiddly is going to live or die by whether or not the folks most committed to it find a long-term model for supporting the software and themselves. I completely disagree with this, and I think it is the prevelance of this attitude in this thread which has contributed to me becoming angry and finding it hard to find a way into the thread that is clear and focused. The core of Mile's observation applies to both of us, though: we're trying to secure a long term model for supporting ourselves while we work on the software. I guess your point is that if either of us failed to establish a viable model, then it shouldn't necessarily imply the death of the software. Perhaps, more to the point, my observation, across multiple open source (and other projects), dating pretty far back (ARPANET era) is that "communities" are very amorphous things that are not capable of very much without a level of organization. In the early stage, that organization most often comes from an individual or core group who is/are most committed to the project (usually the founders), eventually evolving into an established set of procedures, tools, roles, etc. that allow the project to move forward without them. Perhaps the best example of this is the Apache daemon - starting as a funded R&D project at NCSA (the "NCSA Daemon") with a team of people behind it, with funding behind them. After a while, two things happened: - a user community had developed around Apache - NCSA decided it was no longer "researchy" and decided to kill its involvement Those two events led to a lot of turmoil, that, after several incarnations, led to the Apache Software Foundation as a long-term home, and the ecosystem, infrastructure, and community that maintains ongoing support and development. (This is, of course, a simplified version of the history - a better telling, and one that might be educational in our context, is at http://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html) There are lots more open source projects that have disappeared into oblivion than have gone on to long-term viability. Survival seems to be a mix of BOTH doing something useful to a large community, AND a small leadership group that organizes the effort in a way that puts it on a long-term, sustainable path. It probably doesn't matter if that group is doing it for commercial reasons (e.g., building a company around a core piece of open source code) or other reasons - though generally that core group needs to find a way to support themselves and their efforts. Whether it's a supportive employer (perhaps one who uses or otherwise benefits from the software), or a business organized around the software, both people and projects have real expenses - and it's a lot easier to focus if one's "day job" aligns with the project. Seems to me that, for Tiddly to move down that path, some core group needs to provide the focus for a year or two - and Jerymy and Erik seem like the obvious candidates. Just one man's opinion, of course. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Business Thought [was: Important Message from Eric]
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011, Jeremy Ruston wrote: The core of Mile's observation applies to both of us, though: we're trying to secure a long term model for supporting ourselves while we work on the software. I guess your point is that if either of us failed to establish a viable model, then it shouldn't necessarily imply the death of the software. Not only should it not imply the death of the software, I think if it even worries people about the death of the software, then there is something very unhealthy happening in the community. But beyond that I think it is important to keep in mind that though I'm currently employed as a creator of a tiddly-related code I do not believe that what I'm paid for is the code itself. The code is free, it is merely an expression of my expertise. It is the expertise and associated experience which is being paid for. When you, Eric, I or anyone else is paid to improve tiddly* it is because the payer needs it in either a faster or more direct way than the community can provide OR they are doing what they feel is just in the face of value they are getting from the community. Organizations like BT, in general, can use money more easily than they can perform the committed community participation that individuals provide in the form of use, bug reporting, documentation, community assistance and plain ol' writing code. In the end, whatever the currency, the value obtained is membership and participation. -- Chris Dent http://burningchrome.com/ [...] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] On Leaving BT and Osmosoft
On Nov 9, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > I'm hoping that through consulting I'll be able to work with a wider > range of people who are interested in TiddlyWiki, TiddlyWeb and > TiddlySpace. I also intend to focus some much needed time on > TiddlyWiki. I've started work on improving the content of > tiddlywiki.com, and am starting work on replacing the TiddlyWiki build > tools cook and ginsu with a more flexible toolchain based on node.js. > Once those two bits of infrastructure are in place then I'll pick up > TiddlyWiki5 again. I'm enjoying this work immensely; one of the > frustrating consequences of my position at BT was that I couldn't > spend much time coding. Glad to hear you're sticking with TiddlyWiki. It's a great app whose potential remains to be realized. So few know of it. I wonder also about possibilities for addressing what seems to me to be a major shortcoming, one that is a factor in its not being better known or as widely used as it should be: Documentation. Without question there are technical writers who, working with a core of TiddlyWiki's amazingly creative and resourceful developer/users, could produce what is needed, something to help newcomers get started and serve as a reference and guide to established nonprogrammer users. Sincerely, -- Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net "Human coexistence and social life constitute the good common to us all from which and thanks to which all cultural and social goods derive." - Zygmunt Bauman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Tackling File Importing in modern browsers
Hi Julien what version of Firefox are you using? In my Firefox everything seems to work fine, but I've made a few tweaks that could possibly prevent this. http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr Note if you see the old user interface for the file importer (ie. no restart wizard button), it's likely your Firefox version is not up to date! Jon On Nov 10, 1:28 pm, julien23 wrote: > Hi Rakugo > > Pleased to see things a step ahead with the import issue > > I've tried to load your > http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > in my TW > > But I get the error log "Error: TypeError: ImportWizard is not a > function" at refresh. You can have a look here : > http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > Am I doing things wrong ? > Do I miss dependency or version ? > > My main concern is to get my "Package management" back : > http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#[[Load%20Package]] > > Thanks > > Julien > > On Nov 9, 5:21 pm, rakugo wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've had a go at rewriting the TiddlyWiki file importer using the > > HTML5 file apihttp://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ > > > It works in Firefox but not Chrome but it seems hopeful. It would be > > good for others to try it out. > > > Simply slot this plugin into your shiny new Firefox version which you > > cannot import from:http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > and hopefully importing will be possible again... > > > Let me know how you get on. > > > See the related issue > > here:https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/issues/38#issuecomment-2675766 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Tackling File Importing in modern browsers
Hi Julien Your feedback is much appreciated! I'll have a look at your space and see if I can work out what's going on! On Nov 10, 1:28 pm, julien23 wrote: > Hi Rakugo > > Pleased to see things a step ahead with the import issue > > I've tried to load your > http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > in my TW > > But I get the error log "Error: TypeError: ImportWizard is not a > function" at refresh. You can have a look here : > http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > Am I doing things wrong ? > Do I miss dependency or version ? > > My main concern is to get my "Package management" back : > http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#[[Load%20Package]] > > Thanks > > Julien > > On Nov 9, 5:21 pm, rakugo wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've had a go at rewriting the TiddlyWiki file importer using the > > HTML5 file apihttp://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ > > > It works in Firefox but not Chrome but it seems hopeful. It would be > > good for others to try it out. > > > Simply slot this plugin into your shiny new Firefox version which you > > cannot import from:http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > > and hopefully importing will be possible again... > > > Let me know how you get on. > > > See the related issue > > here:https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/issues/38#issuecomment-2675766 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Re: On Leaving BT and Osmosoft
> Could you or someone explain a little about the "ownership" of TW and > it's various forms? I mean, as a regular user I see a risk of things > forking apart when the key developer goes his own way. What of TW is > left at BT? Will proprietary issues arise (BT owns Osmosoft, right) - > or is all things TW property of UnaMesa? Are there intentions (at > least from your side) to keep things compatible? As a general user, I > use vanilla TW but also many tiddlyspaces. Are you involved in the > latter? The copyrights and intellectual property in TiddlyWiki are held by UnaMesa on behalf of the community. BT has the same rights to use the software that you or I do. I'll be working on TiddlyWiki alongside Osmosoft, who will also no doubt be doing more TiddlyWeb and TiddlySpace work. I'll be working closely with Chris and the rest of the community to bring some much needed architectural and stylistic updates to the TiddlyWiki code. > ...and, any elaboration on what "making TW good" means in your > perspective, ie. what would your focus be (browser compatability, > mobile focus, features, easier for newcomers, more commercial > designs, ...?) Hope this is not rude of me to ask but because you are > such a key individual for TW and it is a tool I use it would simply be > valuable to get a sense of direction. (I think this question becomes > extra pressing when it comes to open source projects driven by > individuals. When you have a commercial tool like, say, a Windows or > an Apple product, then you know the focus for them is to make the > products as user friendly and as commercially powerful as possible, > very carefully listening to the user needs. Not necessarily so with > open source of course.) To start with my goal is to update the TiddlyWiki build process so that it's easier to work on the code. There's a lot of updating and streamlining to do to make TiddlyWiki's basic functionality usable, and I guess that will be the focus for a while. But as soon as possible, I'd like to pick up TiddlyWiki5 (possibly under a new name): a major new release that breaks backwards compatibility. Best wishes Jeremy > On Nov 9, 3:00 pm, Jeremy Ruston wrote: >> After four and a half years, I've decided to leave BT in order to >> return to working as an independent consultant. Osmosoft will continue >> within BT under the leadership of Matt Lucht, and I'll be doing some >> work back to Osmosoft to help out. The formal announcement is here: >> >> http://osmosoft.com/#%5B%5BJeremy%20Ruston%20to%20leave%20BT%5D%5D >> >> I'm hoping that through consulting I'll be able to work with a wider >> range of people who are interested in TiddlyWiki, TiddlyWeb and >> TiddlySpace. I also intend to focus some much needed time on >> TiddlyWiki. I've started work on improving the content of >> tiddlywiki.com, and am starting work on replacing the TiddlyWiki build >> tools cook and ginsu with a more flexible toolchain based on node.js. >> Once those two bits of infrastructure are in place then I'll pick up >> TiddlyWiki5 again. I'm enjoying this work immensely; one of the >> frustrating consequences of my position at BT was that I couldn't >> spend much time coding. >> >> I'm enjoying the feeling of decompressing. To be sincere and >> constructive in working for an organisation like BT, you have to take >> on the problems and perspective of the organisation as a whole. The >> process is fascinating and instructive, and I've learned a lot from >> it. But now I have the luxury of exchanging those concerns for some >> much simpler ones: making TiddlyWiki good, and being able to earn a >> living because of it. >> >> I'll do my best to answer any questions, >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy. >> >> -- >> Jeremy Ruston >> mailto:jer...@osmosoft.comhttp://www.tiddlywiki.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. > > -- Jeremy Ruston mailto:jer...@osmosoft.com http://www.tiddlywiki.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Business Thought [was: Important Message from Eric]
Great post, thanks Chris. Your perspective on BT and Osmosoft is very valuable. >> At some point, Tiddly is going to live or die by whether or not the folks >> most committed to it find a long-term model for supporting the software and >> themselves. > > I completely disagree with this, and I think it is the prevelance of > this attitude in this thread which has contributed to me becoming > angry and finding it hard to find a way into the thread that is > clear and focused. The core of Mile's observation applies to both of us, though: we're trying to secure a long term model for supporting ourselves while we work on the software. I guess your point is that if either of us failed to establish a viable model, then it shouldn't necessarily imply the death of the software. > * When Jeremy was sucked up by the BT spaceship his availability > vaporized. Perhaps that will change now with his recent news. Yes, that's what it felt like to me, too. Doing a good job in an executive role in a big company has very, very little in common with running an open source project. I'm relishing recovering my independence. Many thanks, Jeremy -- Jeremy Ruston mailto:jer...@osmosoft.com http://www.tiddlywiki.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
Re: [tw] Important Message from Eric
Eric has been right at the centre of TiddlyWiki since almost the
beginning, and his willingness to share his expertise is now one of
the hallmarks of our community. I've been privileged to spend many
happy evenings chewing the fat with him in Sunnyvale. I'll pick up
some of the other topics from this thread separately, but the main
thing is to address Eric's central crisis. I'll explain what I've
tried to do in the past, and what I plan to do now.
When I joined BT I tried to address Eric's needs by persuading BT to
support UnaMesa, which they have generously continued to do after my
departure (albeit the amount has been reduced in recent years in line
with BT's internal cost cutting programme). We failed, though, to
bring any other supporters on board, making it hard to give Eric the
level of income he deserves.
The thing that might not be clear from the outside is that at the time
of the Osmosoft acquisition BT weren't really terribly interested in
TiddlyWiki itself; they wanted to bring me on board to help them
understand open source and to learn how to use it sensibly. TiddlyWiki
was part of my qualifications, but not really of specific interest.
That's changed now; Osmosoft is all about TiddlySpace, TiddlyWeb and
TiddlyWiki. If the projects using them really take hold in BT then
perhaps we'll be able to persuade BT to offer more support to the
community.
Now I've chosen to leave BT because I crave the independence of being
able to work with a much wider range of clients. I don't expect a
great deal of my consultancy work to be directly about TiddlyWiki, but
it will absolutely be *because of* TiddlyWiki. So, one of my first
goals is to give some love and polish to TiddlyWiki, to make it be a
decent calling card. I love coding, and haven't done nearly enough for
a long time.
Now, Eric's work makes TiddlyWiki better and brighter, and so it makes
sense for me to try to support him directly out of my consultancy
income. I'll commit to a regular monthly donation, that will hopefully
rise as I get my teeth into my new working life.
Best wishes
Jeremy
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Eric Shulman wrote:
> Dear TiddlyFriends,
>
> Most of you know me as the author of TiddlyTools.com ("Small Tools for
> Big Ideas"), where I publish and actively maintain hundreds of
> original TiddlyWiki addons (plugins, scripts, themes, etc.) that I
> have written. You also know me as the moderator and a "key
> contributor" to the TiddlyWiki GoogleGroups, where I often post
> detailed instructions, explanations and solutions in response to
> questions posed by people who are using TiddlyWiki in many different
> aspects of their daily lives. Some of you may also know that,
> professionally, I earn my living as an independent consultant,
> specializing in User Experience Design and Information Architecture,
> providing software design and development services to companies and
> individuals in Silicon Valley and the surrounding San Francisco Bay
> Area, as well as remotely over the net.
>
> What most of you don't know is that, since 2006, I have been providing
> ongoing TiddlyWiki consulting services to the UnaMesa Association --
> the non-profit organization that holds the copyright on the TiddlyWiki
> source. In addition to earning a modest but steady income (enough to
> cover my basic living expenses) from working directly on UnaMesa-
> sponsored TiddlyWiki projects, the primary effect of their financial
> support has been to help promote the overall health and growth of the
> worldwide TiddlyWiki community by allowing me to focus most of my time
> and effort on creating and publishing new addons and providing
> technical assistance to the TiddlyWiki community without the constant
> distraction of seeking out new clients/projects.
>
> Unfortunately, since the beginning of 2011, UnaMesa has been facing a
> fiscal shortfall that has significantly reduced their financial
> support for my TiddlyWiki activities. Although there may still be
> some funds budgeted for specific UnaMesa-sponsored projects, funds for
> general TiddlyWiki "community support services" have been completely
> exhausted and are no longer available. Regardless, despite this loss
> of funding, the *need* for these community support services has not
> changed. In fact, as TiddlyWiki continues to grow and evolve, it is
> being applied to an ever-increasing variety of sophisticated real-
> world applications for which technical help and assistance are almost
> certain to be even more vital.
>
> From a personal perspective, the problem is simple: in order to
> continue providing full-time support to the worldwide TiddlyWiki
> community, I must quickly find a way to replace the loss of revenue
> from UnaMesa, ideally without the distraction of finding and working
> on *non*-TiddlyWiki consulting projects. Of course, TiddlyTools.com
> is an open-source effort, so there are no licensing fees for the
> addons I have published, and my online assistance has
Re: [tw] Business Thought [was: Important Message from Eric]
I've been waiting for an appropriate moment to join this collection of threads, and this paragraph below feels like it provides that moment. Before I get into that, though, I'd first like to say: It's a curious thing that Eric's expression of a need to ensure his livelihood somehow managed to devolve into a huge pile of complaining, demanding and introspection on what's wrong with the tiddly* community. At such times I would think it far better to celebrate and remind ourselves of the huge contributions that Eric has made over the years to the community. His work on creating, maintaining and documenting plugins is second to none and his efforts to ensure that the TiddlyWiki core keeps its promises have been outstanding, even if the face of sometimes different priorities from elsewhere. So, congratulations to Eric on his many years of work. I'm confident that as a community we will be able to work out ways to ensure that he can continue to contribute. I hope that's not at all controversial. The controversial part comes next, below: On Thu, 10 Nov 2011, Miles Fidelman wrote: At some point, Tiddly is going to live or die by whether or not the folks most committed to it find a long-term model for supporting the software and themselves. I completely disagree with this, and I think it is the prevelance of this attitude in this thread which has contributed to me becoming angry and finding it hard to find a way into the thread that is clear and focused. Tiddly lives and dies by the efforts of its community. Not by business, business interests, or even leaders. Tiddly is a thing in its own right with a community of participants who all have free and easy access to: * create documentation * contribute code * report bugs * demonstrate cool functionality In one of his earlier message Miles asks that Tiddly be more like, e.g., Linux. Back when I first started using Linux, I guess in about 1992, maybe 93, Linus and a few core devs were responsible for making patches and distributing tarballs. I installed Linux via SLS, a distribution packaged by someone who was not Linus nor one of those core devs. Later as the community grew someone got the bright idea to start the Linux Document Project (source of Howtos and the like). That wasn't a core dev either. A while later I was using Linux to run an ISP. We had features that we needed in the packages that ran our services. We mades patches to apache, qpopper, PAM, innd and contributed them back to the communities that surrounded them. My employer, the ISP, paid me to make those contributions back to the free (as in beer) software that made our business possible. TiddlyWiki is rather unique in its nature as a standalone piece of software. It is less easy to connect back to a community than say something like Apache or Linux. This does not, however, obviate the responsibility the community has to the health of TiddlyWiki itself and the TiddlyWiki community. I'm not sure when it happened (because I have not been observing the community for that long) but at some point the TiddlyWiki community stopped operating as one. Perhaps it was when Osmosoft was bought by BT. It sometimes seems like at that point people decided "oh there is money now, BT will take care of it." That's never been the case and never should have been the case. BT bought Osmosoft to understand open source operations yet bizarrely TiddlyWiki has become less and less operational as an open source project since the purchase. BT's engagement with TiddlyWiki ought to be much like the ISP (above) engaging with various software: It contributes back to the community those improvements which it finds valuable to itself. For example BT wanted a certain type of server-side so they paid me to make one (more on TiddlyWeb below). The maintenance of the community, though, should have been and needs to be (for the sake of just distribution of power) done by the community and the simple truth is this has not happened. There are presumably a few reasons for this. Some of it is that perceived "leaders" didn't step up in an effective fashion: * When Jeremy was sucked up by the BT spaceship his availability vaporized. Perhaps that will change now with his recent news. * Martin, who has been the inside Osmosoft lead of TiddlyWiki development, has not engaged the community with alacrity. * Eric, though his contributions are extremely valuable, insists on keeping them in a format that is not accessible to open source processes such as version control, forking, patching, issues tracking, etc. Nor has he, despite many invitations, become a proper contributor in the core code, using git etc. * Those of us with monetary relationships with Osmosoft (me, Ben, Jon, Colm, once upon a time FND, but no longer) have resposibilities which do not prioritize TiddlyWiki but instead business goals given to them by the people with the money and their own developing careers. * The (probably u
[tw] Re: On Leaving BT and Osmosoft
Hello Jeremy, I'm Italian and I do not speak English very well ... I still want you to know that I consider your work exceptional. I wish you all the best! On 10 Nov, 05:33, twgrp wrote: > First, I wish you all the best! > > Second, a few questions :-) They are a mixed bag of questions, where > answering one may cancel out others so I'll just present them in a > pile: > > Could you or someone explain a little about the "ownership" of TW and > it's various forms? I mean, as a regular user I see a risk of things > forking apart when the key developer goes his own way. What of TW is > left at BT? Will proprietary issues arise (BT owns Osmosoft, right) - > or is all things TW property of UnaMesa? Are there intentions (at > least from your side) to keep things compatible? As a general user, I > use vanilla TW but also many tiddlyspaces. Are you involved in the > latter? > > ...and, any elaboration on what "making TW good" means in your > perspective, ie. what would your focus be (browser compatability, > mobile focus, features, easier for newcomers, more commercial > designs, ...?) Hope this is not rude of me to ask but because you are > such a key individual for TW and it is a tool I use it would simply be > valuable to get a sense of direction. (I think this question becomes > extra pressing when it comes to open source projects driven by > individuals. When you have a commercial tool like, say, a Windows or > an Apple product, then you know the focus for them is to make the > products as user friendly and as commercially powerful as possible, > very carefully listening to the user needs. Not necessarily so with > open source of course.) > > Again, all best!!! > > :-) > > On Nov 9, 3:00 pm, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > > > > > > > > > After four and a half years, I've decided to leave BT in order to > > return to working as an independent consultant. Osmosoft will continue > > within BT under the leadership of Matt Lucht, and I'll be doing some > > work back to Osmosoft to help out. The formal announcement is here: > > >http://osmosoft.com/#%5B%5BJeremy%20Ruston%20to%20leave%20BT%5D%5D > > > I'm hoping that through consulting I'll be able to work with a wider > > range of people who are interested in TiddlyWiki, TiddlyWeb and > > TiddlySpace. I also intend to focus some much needed time on > > TiddlyWiki. I've started work on improving the content of > > tiddlywiki.com, and am starting work on replacing the TiddlyWiki build > > tools cook and ginsu with a more flexible toolchain based on node.js. > > Once those two bits of infrastructure are in place then I'll pick up > > TiddlyWiki5 again. I'm enjoying this work immensely; one of the > > frustrating consequences of my position at BT was that I couldn't > > spend much time coding. > > > I'm enjoying the feeling of decompressing. To be sincere and > > constructive in working for an organisation like BT, you have to take > > on the problems and perspective of the organisation as a whole. The > > process is fascinating and instructive, and I've learned a lot from > > it. But now I have the luxury of exchanging those concerns for some > > much simpler ones: making TiddlyWiki good, and being able to earn a > > living because of it. > > > I'll do my best to answer any questions, > > > Best wishes > > > Jeremy. > > > -- > > Jeremy Ruston > > mailto:jer...@osmosoft.comhttp://www.tiddlywiki.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Business Thought [was: Important Message from Eric]
Alex Hough wrote (excerpts): GET OUR BUSINESS HEADS TOGETHER ? The point about governance is an interesting one that has come up before, its an interesting one given the context - of open source innovation. It would make a great study for a student of business (I have made some enquiries for myself) - the story should be written up. But I don't think governance should get in the way of some entrepreneurial thinking. What with Jeremy and Erik both looking for some ways to support both TiddlyWiki and themselves, it seems like this is the time to start thinking business model and organization very seriously. And in that regard, two possible models suggest themselves: 1. Zotero (Zotero.org) is a bibliographic tool for managing research citations. It runs as both a stand-alone browser plug-in, and in concert with a central server for sharing bibliographic records. It's as, or more, capable than commercial products and has a significant following among academic researchers. It strikes me as an effort of comparable scope to Tiddly. The project "lives" within the "Roy Rosenzweig Center for Historiy and New Media" in the Dept. of History and Art History, at George Mason University - with work funded by several foundation grants. I.e., a few techies are employed by a grant to develop and maintain the software, within a university department. It strikes me that Jeremy and Erik might have some serious discussion with UnaMesa about how to set up a similar arrangement under UnaMesa's 501(c)3 umbrella, and pursuing foundation and/or corporate sponsors for the work. 2. Talk to the folks behind CouchDB about how they ended up operating under the Apache Software Foundation, and how they support themselves and the continued development of CouchDB. At some point, Tiddly is going to live or die by whether or not the folks most committed to it find a long-term model for supporting the software and themselves. (Just one man's opinion.) Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Tackling File Importing in modern browsers
Hi Rakugo Pleased to see things a step ahead with the import issue I've tried to load your http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr in my TW But I get the error log "Error: TypeError: ImportWizard is not a function" at refresh. You can have a look here : http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#TiddlyFileImportr Am I doing things wrong ? Do I miss dependency or version ? My main concern is to get my "Package management" back : http://julien23.tiddlyspot.com/#[[Load%20Package]] Thanks Julien On Nov 9, 5:21 pm, rakugo wrote: > I've had a go at rewriting the TiddlyWiki file importer using the > HTML5 file apihttp://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ > > It works in Firefox but not Chrome but it seems hopeful. It would be > good for others to try it out. > > Simply slot this plugin into your shiny new Firefox version which you > cannot import from:http://repository.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyFileImportr > and hopefully importing will be possible again... > > Let me know how you get on. > > See the related issue > here:https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki/issues/38#issuecomment-2675766 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: On Leaving BT and Osmosoft
First, I wish you all the best! Second, a few questions :-) They are a mixed bag of questions, where answering one may cancel out others so I'll just present them in a pile: Could you or someone explain a little about the "ownership" of TW and it's various forms? I mean, as a regular user I see a risk of things forking apart when the key developer goes his own way. What of TW is left at BT? Will proprietary issues arise (BT owns Osmosoft, right) - or is all things TW property of UnaMesa? Are there intentions (at least from your side) to keep things compatible? As a general user, I use vanilla TW but also many tiddlyspaces. Are you involved in the latter? ...and, any elaboration on what "making TW good" means in your perspective, ie. what would your focus be (browser compatability, mobile focus, features, easier for newcomers, more commercial designs, ...?) Hope this is not rude of me to ask but because you are such a key individual for TW and it is a tool I use it would simply be valuable to get a sense of direction. (I think this question becomes extra pressing when it comes to open source projects driven by individuals. When you have a commercial tool like, say, a Windows or an Apple product, then you know the focus for them is to make the products as user friendly and as commercially powerful as possible, very carefully listening to the user needs. Not necessarily so with open source of course.) Again, all best!!! :-) On Nov 9, 3:00 pm, Jeremy Ruston wrote: > After four and a half years, I've decided to leave BT in order to > return to working as an independent consultant. Osmosoft will continue > within BT under the leadership of Matt Lucht, and I'll be doing some > work back to Osmosoft to help out. The formal announcement is here: > > http://osmosoft.com/#%5B%5BJeremy%20Ruston%20to%20leave%20BT%5D%5D > > I'm hoping that through consulting I'll be able to work with a wider > range of people who are interested in TiddlyWiki, TiddlyWeb and > TiddlySpace. I also intend to focus some much needed time on > TiddlyWiki. I've started work on improving the content of > tiddlywiki.com, and am starting work on replacing the TiddlyWiki build > tools cook and ginsu with a more flexible toolchain based on node.js. > Once those two bits of infrastructure are in place then I'll pick up > TiddlyWiki5 again. I'm enjoying this work immensely; one of the > frustrating consequences of my position at BT was that I couldn't > spend much time coding. > > I'm enjoying the feeling of decompressing. To be sincere and > constructive in working for an organisation like BT, you have to take > on the problems and perspective of the organisation as a whole. The > process is fascinating and instructive, and I've learned a lot from > it. But now I have the luxury of exchanging those concerns for some > much simpler ones: making TiddlyWiki good, and being able to earn a > living because of it. > > I'll do my best to answer any questions, > > Best wishes > > Jeremy. > > -- > Jeremy Ruston > mailto:jer...@osmosoft.comhttp://www.tiddlywiki.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Important Message from Eric
Why do people keep replying with not-so-relevant issues? Other than the general reference to UnaMesa's cut down budget, Eric clearly states that: "From a personal perspective, the problem is simple: in order to continue providing full-time support to the worldwide TiddlyWiki community, I must quickly find a way to replace the loss of revenue from UnaMesa," TW *becomes* what is made of it (a few years ago it didn't even exist) so little point in discussing that in this thread. Eric is one of the willing "makers" of TW - but the issue here and now is purely FINANCIAL. Other than a direct contribution to http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#Donations I think it makes sense to discuss more general solutions to this and this is why I brainstormed about simplifying tipping and contributions in my earlier post here. :-) On Nov 10, 8:16 am, iain wrote: > I would like to reiterate much of what has been said here, firstly the > praise for Eric's work and support for the whole TW community. > > But secondly I too have thought that TW is slowly dying. I am a user > not a developer - I want tools for my work because I love my work > (history and archaeology) and am not skilled or particularly > interested in programming. I have modified and customised Dave > Gifford's/Morris Gray's basic tool for note taking but am frustrated > by problems with updating the basic TW core and with browser > incompatibilities. Surely these are key issues, something you > shouldn't need to figure out work arounds to deal with. > > I am beginning to wonder whether for what I use TW for, which is note > taking and organisation of historical information, Microsoft (there I > said it) One Note might not be more effective and user friendly. > > yours > > Iain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
[tw] Re: Important Message from Eric
Hi Tobias, you mention that you think the #1 missing resource is a server side for tw. I rather think what is missing is a defined protocol in terms of syntax and semantics for tiddlers (i.e. exchange of tiddlers between tw and server and different tw's). The need and applications for server side tw's are very diverse, but with a protocol we could use tiddlyweb and also drupal, xmpp, google pages, ... you name it as a server backend. But if you look at tiddlyweb it defines its own (not standardized) tiddler fields in JSON with semantics attached to them specifically for tiddlyweb. So we need a better tiddler definition. The minimum needed is a tiddler uuid and a semantic definition of what is meant by it (including versioning). Currently tiddlers are identified by title, which is ok for tw use, but not enough once you move to server sides. But there is more to be developed. We should also look at other developments, like Ward Cunningham's federated wiki (a tw frontend would be nice). Focusing too much on a server side is in my opinion a dead end. There are already countless server based partially tw alike solutions. The strengths of tw are its standalone possibility and the (theoretical) ability to communicate with a variety of servers. And I also think the core should be made more readable, modularized code. tw could also use external libraries for e.g. communication with a server (backbone.js). And also we could improve the non-js visibility by a different layout of the tw source file. tiddlygrp On Nov 10, 1:54 am, Tobias Beer wrote: > Eric, > > First and foremost, you have been the #1 resource in the TiddlyWiki > community for as long as I know it and I would not like at all to > slowly see you leave this place. > > I am most grateful that you parted some of your valuable knowledge on > the inner workings of this marvelous piece of self-empowerment with > me ...and most all of us here and elsewhere. > > I believe, TiddlyWiki has a lot of potential to empower individuals on > so many levels. But those potentials cannot fully unfold for a number > of reasons which, I believe, are... > - the standalone paradigm, lacking fundamental server-side and > messaging concepts as well as a harmonized "external resource > management" > - an overblown core that imposes much more than a "core" really has > to ...or perhaps a basic MVC pattern that woud allow to easily swap, > at least, the VC part of the portfolio > - an incredibly powerful TiddlyWeb which, presumably, way too quickly > had been pushed onto a "market" (?!?) dressed up in TiddlySpace > garment > > ...but let's not blame TiddlySpace for things. It sure has helped to > further improve its much more essential foundation... which is > TiddlyWeb... thanks to a certain group of very inspirational > masterminds behind both, including Jeremy. > > When it comes to good ol' TiddlyWiki, I would have hoped by now that a > core had emerged (with TiddlyWiki 5?) which is streamlined in just the > same way as a linux kernel supposedly is... or maybe was in some > idealized, imaginary version of it. > > I agree with most of the so far articulated criticism, especially with > all those that call for - and have long called for (including myself) > - a powerful COMMUNITY PLATFORM, i.e. a plugin / documentation / use- > case / etc... repository for the TiddlyVerse. > > I wish this TiddlyVerse had a different "core" in terms of a central > vision, basic tentets and yes, marketing efforts, ...for a "good" and > open-source cause... which made it way more accessible to "the world" > at large. > > I believe, the missing link truly is a server-side that comes along > with the very same spirit of simplicity, expressiveness and > flexibility as TiddlyWiki... which to mold and bake one is free to > explore ...with a reasonable level of expertise, of course ...and, > well, resource requirements. > > Besides being based on python, I don't even think that TiddlyWeb is > that far from being exactly that. Heck, if python hosting were as > popular and freely available as PHP hosting, TiddlyWeb would have > gained significantly more momentum by now. > > Although Wolfgang (and in terms of silence, Eric, too) expressed a > certain reluctancy, I do indeed believe that TiddlySpace (or rather > TiddlyWeb) is a much understated technology that follows exactly this > paradigm... opening up the idea of whatever a "tiddler" represents to > a larger public. > > But then, there is a certain conflict of interest between the self > empowering, standalone TiddlyWiki that we know and have grown to > cherish with all its somewhat hidden, yet feature rich expressiveness > which sure is difficult to decipher and to unveil for noobs or which > for one (who is required to follow "governance" principles or one who > desperately wishes there was a multiuser enabled environment) finds > difficult to rely on the one hand ...and the "centralized" hack- and > expandable community-thing, namely
