Re: [tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams - hierarchy-preserving flattening in wikitext

[TW Tones]

Mark,

Yes, there is a setting in  $:/plugins/sq/streams/Settings/config 

Regards
Tones 

On Wednesday, 28 July 2021 at 13:53:50 UTC+10 Mark S. wrote:

> Answering my own question, apparently they need two line feeds between 
> each text line.
>
> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:52:09 PM UTC-7 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> I was trying the split feature with alt+enter. The dialog asks if I want 
>> to split the text into separate tiddlers, but it doesn't actually perform 
>> the split. Is there any special way that I need to format the text before 
>> attempting the split?
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams - hierarchy-preserving flattening in wikitext

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Answering my own question, apparently they need two line feeds between each 
text line.

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:52:09 PM UTC-7 Mark S. wrote:

> I was trying the split feature with alt+enter. The dialog asks if I want 
> to split the text into separate tiddlers, but it doesn't actually perform 
> the split. Is there any special way that I need to format the text before 
> attempting the split?
>
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams - hierarchy-preserving flattening in wikitext

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I was trying the split feature with alt+enter. The dialog asks if I want to 
split the text into separate tiddlers, but it doesn't actually perform the 
split. Is there any special way that I need to format the text before 
attempting the split?


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[tw5] Re: Niche interest - popup placement demo

[Charlie Veniot]

Thanks for creating that and sharing !

I love that kind of demonstration.  Very good stuff.

On Monday, July 26, 2021 at 4:41:39 PM UTC-3 clutterstack wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I made a demonstration of popup placement using the reveal widget's 
> position attribute. It doesn't give you control of all the factors that 
> might affect popup shape and position, but it did help me to understand the 
> behaviour and intent of each positioning option.
>
>
> https://clutterstack-tw-notes.tiddlyhost.com/#Demo%20-%20popup%20positioning%20with%20reveal%20widget
>
> Best,
> Chris
>

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[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[Charlie Veniot]

Hey hey hey, Ted is still kicking !  So much so that I'm sure he'd slap me 
silly for my blasphemy (disliking the back button).

I'm not one to worship the ground anybody walks on, but if I did, Ted would 
be up there with a small handful of other folk.  I really like the guy and 
am a big fan.

If I had my way, it wouldn't be a back button.  It would be a map of where 
I've been, and ability to quickly view side by side any of those places.



On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 10:36:52 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 1:55:52 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I pretty much always see browser back and forward buttons as evil.
>
>
> BLASPHEMY!  Ted Nelson is rolling over in his grave right now, @Charlie; 
> you'd better recant, or face hellfire & damnation yourself :-)
> Seriously tho: Lot's of people rely on those browser built-ins (not to 
> mention me) -besides which: to whatever extent there be anything like a 
> standard feature in ALL browsers, those arrow buttons are two of the few, 
> so... This is not an issue to blow off, if we're talking here about 
> mainstream pedestrian usage of TW as a worthy goal.  /w
>
> I'm also no fan of the storyriver in TiddlyWiki.
>>
>
> Here i have to agree: Story River *as implemented by TW*  (not the only 
> implementation around, NB) is a foreign concept to most inveterate web 
> users -which does bring some interesting possibilities, don't get me wrong, 
> but still: anything that so stretches the visual language of story-telling 
> on the web has got a serious usability obstacle to overcome.  /w
>  
>
>> ..For whatever reason, staying within the boundaries of one "display all" 
>> tiddler works best for me:
>>
>
>>- either display content in that tiddler based on selections in a 
>>sidebar menu (I'm on the fence about that approach)
>>   - Like I've done with my  Favourite Stuff and Projects 
>>   
>>  
>>   TiddlyWiki
>>- or have everything displaying (or available from) that tiddler, 
>>making use of details widgets (or other widgets) to hide/show content, 
>> and 
>>making use of modals for displaying extra content
>>   - Like I've done with my online resume 
>>    TiddlyWiki
>>
>> Those are two clever workarounds you've developed, Charlie, for those who 
> (like us two at least) find the river-of-tiddlers approach to nesting 
> information kinda awkward.  
> Your menu-of-radio-buttons approach is much more familiar and therefore 
> usable for most, i would say... 
> And those click-to-reveal-content arrows (sliders?) are something of a 
> standard in the world of outlining afficionados, and also quite a popular 
> UI feature on the web.  
> If there be any way to turn these two models of yours into a sort of 
> "skin" that could be easily overlaid on an existing TW instance, that would 
> be awesome!  /w
>
>>
>>- 
>>   -  I figure my preferences, always a work in progress, would be 
>>   far from universally appealing.  Brains are so wonderfully diverse, 
>> I'm not 
>>   quite sure what could be universally appealing.
>>
>> Agree: no point trying to be all things to all people -although, in the 
> world of TW geeks, you could almost make that claim.  
> Am just saying: if any of you TW devs ever hope to engage something like a 
> mainstream audience w/ your app, you've got some serious usability issues 
> to overcome...
> And if you somehow manage to pull that off, please share your solution 
> here, for goodness sake!
>
> /walt
>
>  
>
>> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:59:36 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote:
>>
>>> Based on my own experience of trying to engage non-technical users -i.e. 
>>> those on whom the power & flexibility of TW is not only lost; it is 
>>> actually experienced as frictional- i must say: this issue goes so deep, i 
>>> don't know how we might solve it, if indeed we can. 
>>>
>>> More specifically: two issues i've noted as so frustrating to such 
>>> "pedestrian" users, they give up before even trying to understand are:
>>>
>>>1. Native navigation features in the browser are essentially broken 
>>>by TW, in that i can't use forward and back arrows to move off the page 
>>> and 
>>>come back to the place where i left off; and
>>>2. To whatever extent i do any editing of a TW instance that i then 
>>>want to save, i wind up with the totally unexpected result of a new 
>>>multi-mb file on my desktop, and no change in the online instance i 
>>> thought 
>>>i was updating.
>>>
>>> If there be any good way of overcoming these obstacles -beyond simply 
>>> instructing the user in context to forget about both (1) their browser's 
>>> navigation controls and (2) making changes to the online instance- i've yet 
>>> to see any example of it.  If in fact any such prior art exists, it would 
>>> be great if someone could share it here!
>>>

[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[Charlie Veniot]

Who said anything about designing wikis to behave like web sites?

A stereotypical blog with entries ordered and always in the same order, 
that I like.  Every blog entry stays in the same place respective to other 
entries.  Things haven't moved on me.  So there is cognitive stability.  
Things are where I expect them to be.  Story river can get cognitively 
unstable pretty quickly, easy to get lost.

Sure, the story river is very useful to those who know the story river (are 
used to it), but a bit more challenging for those who are used to a 
stable-looking stereotypical blog, but not so much used to the dynamism of 
a story river.  Easy to get lost after a while.

Well, understanding that not all folk cognitively process the same way.  
I'm sure some folk are immediately at home with the story river.






On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 7:34:42 PM UTC-3 TW Tones wrote:

> All,
>
> I treasure the story river, once I install some support tools, for 
> projects, todo and creative writing. I understand that designing a wiki to 
> behave more like all other websites is desirable in other cases. 
>
> What attempt's I have made to look like "normal websites" has worked fine. 
> Perhaps a few layouts and tools that help designers create such standard 
> sites would help.
>
> Here is an unfinished blog site design of mine 
> https://anthonymuscio.github.io/TWBlog.html, keep in mind that the 
> infinite scroll similar to the story is a common design approach for blogs 
> or news pages.
>
> Also there is a setting to update the address bar that makes forward and 
> back work as long as the load times are not too high. See ControlPanel > 
> Settings >  Navigation Address Bar 
> 
>
> Regards
> Tones
> On Tuesday, 27 July 2021 at 23:36:52 UTC+10 ludwa6 wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 1:55:52 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I pretty much always see browser back and forward buttons as evil.
>>
>>
>> BLASPHEMY!  Ted Nelson is rolling over in his grave right now, @Charlie; 
>> you'd better recant, or face hellfire & damnation yourself :-)
>> Seriously tho: Lot's of people rely on those browser built-ins (not to 
>> mention me) -besides which: to whatever extent there be anything like a 
>> standard feature in ALL browsers, those arrow buttons are two of the few, 
>> so... This is not an issue to blow off, if we're talking here about 
>> mainstream pedestrian usage of TW as a worthy goal.  /w
>>
>> I'm also no fan of the storyriver in TiddlyWiki.
>>>
>>
>> Here i have to agree: Story River *as implemented by TW*  (not the only 
>> implementation around, NB) is a foreign concept to most inveterate web 
>> users -which does bring some interesting possibilities, don't get me wrong, 
>> but still: anything that so stretches the visual language of story-telling 
>> on the web has got a serious usability obstacle to overcome.  /w
>>  
>>
>>> ..For whatever reason, staying within the boundaries of one "display 
>>> all" tiddler works best for me:
>>>
>>
>>>- either display content in that tiddler based on selections in a 
>>>sidebar menu (I'm on the fence about that approach)
>>>   - Like I've done with my  Favourite Stuff and Projects 
>>>   
>>>  
>>>   TiddlyWiki
>>>- or have everything displaying (or available from) that tiddler, 
>>>making use of details widgets (or other widgets) to hide/show content, 
>>> and 
>>>making use of modals for displaying extra content
>>>   - Like I've done with my online resume 
>>>    TiddlyWiki
>>>
>>> Those are two clever workarounds you've developed, Charlie, for those 
>> who (like us two at least) find the river-of-tiddlers approach to nesting 
>> information kinda awkward.  
>> Your menu-of-radio-buttons approach is much more familiar and therefore 
>> usable for most, i would say... 
>> And those click-to-reveal-content arrows (sliders?) are something of a 
>> standard in the world of outlining afficionados, and also quite a popular 
>> UI feature on the web.  
>> If there be any way to turn these two models of yours into a sort of 
>> "skin" that could be easily overlaid on an existing TW instance, that would 
>> be awesome!  /w
>>
>>>
>>>- 
>>>   -  I figure my preferences, always a work in progress, would be 
>>>   far from universally appealing.  Brains are so wonderfully diverse, 
>>> I'm not 
>>>   quite sure what could be universally appealing.
>>>
>>> Agree: no point trying to be all things to all people -although, in the 
>> world of TW geeks, you could almost make that claim.  
>> Am just saying: if any of you TW devs ever hope to engage something like 
>> a mainstream audience w/ your app, you've got some serious usability issues 
>> to overcome...
>> And if you somehow manage to pull that off, 

[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[TW Tones]

All,

I treasure the story river, once I install some support tools, for 
projects, todo and creative writing. I understand that designing a wiki to 
behave more like all other websites is desirable in other cases. 

What attempt's I have made to look like "normal websites" has worked fine. 
Perhaps a few layouts and tools that help designers create such standard 
sites would help.

Here is an unfinished blog site design of 
mine https://anthonymuscio.github.io/TWBlog.html, keep in mind that the 
infinite scroll similar to the story is a common design approach for blogs 
or news pages.

Also there is a setting to update the address bar that makes forward and 
back work as long as the load times are not too high. See ControlPanel > 
Settings >  Navigation Address Bar 


Regards
Tones
On Tuesday, 27 July 2021 at 23:36:52 UTC+10 ludwa6 wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 1:55:52 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I pretty much always see browser back and forward buttons as evil.
>
>
> BLASPHEMY!  Ted Nelson is rolling over in his grave right now, @Charlie; 
> you'd better recant, or face hellfire & damnation yourself :-)
> Seriously tho: Lot's of people rely on those browser built-ins (not to 
> mention me) -besides which: to whatever extent there be anything like a 
> standard feature in ALL browsers, those arrow buttons are two of the few, 
> so... This is not an issue to blow off, if we're talking here about 
> mainstream pedestrian usage of TW as a worthy goal.  /w
>
> I'm also no fan of the storyriver in TiddlyWiki.
>>
>
> Here i have to agree: Story River *as implemented by TW*  (not the only 
> implementation around, NB) is a foreign concept to most inveterate web 
> users -which does bring some interesting possibilities, don't get me wrong, 
> but still: anything that so stretches the visual language of story-telling 
> on the web has got a serious usability obstacle to overcome.  /w
>  
>
>> ..For whatever reason, staying within the boundaries of one "display all" 
>> tiddler works best for me:
>>
>
>>- either display content in that tiddler based on selections in a 
>>sidebar menu (I'm on the fence about that approach)
>>   - Like I've done with my  Favourite Stuff and Projects 
>>   
>>  
>>   TiddlyWiki
>>- or have everything displaying (or available from) that tiddler, 
>>making use of details widgets (or other widgets) to hide/show content, 
>> and 
>>making use of modals for displaying extra content
>>   - Like I've done with my online resume 
>>    TiddlyWiki
>>
>> Those are two clever workarounds you've developed, Charlie, for those who 
> (like us two at least) find the river-of-tiddlers approach to nesting 
> information kinda awkward.  
> Your menu-of-radio-buttons approach is much more familiar and therefore 
> usable for most, i would say... 
> And those click-to-reveal-content arrows (sliders?) are something of a 
> standard in the world of outlining afficionados, and also quite a popular 
> UI feature on the web.  
> If there be any way to turn these two models of yours into a sort of 
> "skin" that could be easily overlaid on an existing TW instance, that would 
> be awesome!  /w
>
>>
>>- 
>>   -  I figure my preferences, always a work in progress, would be 
>>   far from universally appealing.  Brains are so wonderfully diverse, 
>> I'm not 
>>   quite sure what could be universally appealing.
>>
>> Agree: no point trying to be all things to all people -although, in the 
> world of TW geeks, you could almost make that claim.  
> Am just saying: if any of you TW devs ever hope to engage something like a 
> mainstream audience w/ your app, you've got some serious usability issues 
> to overcome...
> And if you somehow manage to pull that off, please share your solution 
> here, for goodness sake!
>
> /walt
>
>  
>
>> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:59:36 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote:
>>
>>> Based on my own experience of trying to engage non-technical users -i.e. 
>>> those on whom the power & flexibility of TW is not only lost; it is 
>>> actually experienced as frictional- i must say: this issue goes so deep, i 
>>> don't know how we might solve it, if indeed we can. 
>>>
>>> More specifically: two issues i've noted as so frustrating to such 
>>> "pedestrian" users, they give up before even trying to understand are:
>>>
>>>1. Native navigation features in the browser are essentially broken 
>>>by TW, in that i can't use forward and back arrows to move off the page 
>>> and 
>>>come back to the place where i left off; and
>>>2. To whatever extent i do any editing of a TW instance that i then 
>>>want to save, i wind up with the totally unexpected result of a new 
>>>multi-mb file on my desktop, and no 

[tw5] Re: Niche interest - popup placement demo

[TW Tones]

Thanks for sharing this.

I have felt it would be nice to be able to detect if a popup is occurring 
on the left or right half of the screen and align in the opposite direction.

This discussion is informative, I feel I am not making sufficient use of 
popups to better manage screen real-estate.

Tones

On Tuesday, 27 July 2021 at 05:41:39 UTC+10 clutterstack wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I made a demonstration of popup placement using the reveal widget's 
> position attribute. It doesn't give you control of all the factors that 
> might affect popup shape and position, but it did help me to understand the 
> behaviour and intent of each positioning option.
>
>
> https://clutterstack-tw-notes.tiddlyhost.com/#Demo%20-%20popup%20positioning%20with%20reveal%20widget
>
> Best,
> Chris
>

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[tw5] Re: Niche interest - popup placement demo

[TW Tones]

Ste,

I would not worry about the order of your polyps, just have them, removed :)

Tones

On Wednesday, 28 July 2021 at 01:00:40 UTC+10 Ste wrote:

>
> That's cool! 
> I like the ability to set the pop up direction. 
> I've been using repopup plugin from the mentat sit (
> https://thesherwood.github.io/Mentat/)
> To keep my polyps in order but I will have a play with this! 
>
> On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 20:41:39 UTC+1 clutterstack wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I made a demonstration of popup placement using the reveal widget's 
>> position attribute. It doesn't give you control of all the factors that 
>> might affect popup shape and position, but it did help me to understand the 
>> behaviour and intent of each positioning option.
>>
>>
>> https://clutterstack-tw-notes.tiddlyhost.com/#Demo%20-%20popup%20positioning%20with%20reveal%20widget
>>
>> Best,
>> Chris
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Another set of eyes on my code

[TW Tones]

Mark,

Thanks, when I separate the code it also works. Just knowing your success 
is important information. My suspicion is perhaps that one of the variables 
I make use of is misbehaving and causing the code to be misread. I am loath 
to wikify every variable just before use but I may need to do this to see 
if I can identify the offending piece.

I must say it can get difficult debugging larger solutions when we have 
multiple layers of macros and transclusions. The cognitive overload is high 
because so much is hidden within layers.

Thanks for your help
Tones
On Tuesday, 27 July 2021 at 23:24:02 UTC+10 Mark S. wrote:

> The thing is, I do see the second buttons after running the first button. 
> So maybe I don't understand what you expect the code to do.
>
> I do change " {{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}" to "MY BUTTON" 
> because I don't want to go spelunking all over the TW world to find the 
> particular icon you're using. However, if you have instance where you 
> forgot to install the icon, that would explain why the button appears to 
> not be working.
>
> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-7 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> Thanks all,
>>
>> Mario, I would share an example, but it is hard to extract a test case 
>> because as I said "Deep within a larger project", I will see what I can do 
>> if I get nowhere soon. 
>>
>>- Although when I extracted these macros from the others in an 
>>attempt it started working.
>>
>> Charlie, I always cut and past but usually only from my own working code. 
>> but I did remove some white space, thanks.
>> Mark, I think that was an issue either not yet discovered as it would not 
>> have being displayed however I corrected that to  $value={{{ 
>> [get[text]] }}} 
>>
>> I will keep reviewing thanks all.
>>
>> Tones
>>
>> On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 22:49:29 UTC+10 TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> Deep within a larger project I have some macros. there is a button that 
>>> displays its tooltip but its actions are not occurring. I have spent hours 
>>> trying work out why it is not working when it did previously.
>>>
>>> Can anyone see why the first button is visible but not reacting, if it 
>>> did I would then see the second button. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>>>
>>> \define field-state-update() $:/state/$(fieldname)$-update
>>> \define tiddler-field-value-temp() 
>>> $:/temp/$(currentTiddler)$/$(fieldname)$-update
>>> \define field.update() 
>>> <$list filter="[!has[title]]" variable=nul>
>>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>>> *   <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="click to edit 
>>> $(fieldname)$">*
>>> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>>> text="existence toggled in field.update macro"/>*
>>> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>>> text=<>/>*
>>> *{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}*
>>> *   *
>>> 
>>> <$list filter="[has[title]]" variable=nul>
>>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
>>><$button message="tm-delete-tiddler" param=<> 
>>> class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="finish update of $(fieldname)$">
>>>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}
>>>
>>><$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="Restore $(fieldname)$">
>>><$action-setfield $tiddler=<> 
>>> $field=<> $value=<$transclude 
>>> tiddler=<>/> />
>>>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/restore-field}}
>>>
>>> 
>>> \end
>>>
>>> More info
>>>
>>> I invoke this with <>  and fieldname field-type-tiddler is 
>>> already set. The green filter never comes true, also proving 
>>> <> is never created.
>>> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> text="existence 
>>> toggled in field.update macro"/>
>>> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>>> text=<>/>
>>> So the above actions do not occur.
>>>
>>> These lines in the above work on their own
>>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
>>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Tones
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: List Widget Filters "Only" operator

[PMario]

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 2:26:23 PM UTC+2 TW Tones wrote:

[all[current]tags[]count[]match[2]then] +[tag[Tag1]] 
> +[tag[Tag2]]
>

Tony, Your filter uses all tiddlers that have 2 tags and starts to test 
them.

I did think about this: 

<$set name="condition" value="[tag[Tag2]tags[]count[]match[2]]">
  <$list filter="[tag[Tag1]filter]">
<> 
  
  

My filter uses all tiddlers, that have at least Tag1 and tests them if it 
has Tag2 and only 2 tags. ... Those tiddlers could have 1,2 or more tags. 
... 

Performace will depend on how the tags are used and how many tiddlers have 
2 tags ... 

-mario

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[tw5] Re: Voting for the v5.2.0 banner artwork

[Frank Bruns-Ballhausen]

Hi together,

just in case you haven't noticed yet...
The thread where we discussed and gathered the entries is not here: 
https://forms.gle/CWhnVMwumq4pNzoJ6 (This is the link for voting)
The discussion can be found here: 
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/eccIEHZoxsI/m/_MWs3EooBAAJ

@jeremy: Is there anywhere to see the current status of the voting?

jeremy...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Juli 2021 um 12:36:45 UTC+2:

> I’d like to invite everyone to vote for the banner artwork for the 
> upcoming v5.2.0 release. (The banner is shown in the splash screen for 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/, and within the HelloThere tiddler).
>
> To take part, please visit this link and choose which one of the 13 
> entries you think would look best:
>
> https://forms.gle/CWhnVMwumq4pNzoJ6
>
> No sign in is required.
>
> The thread where we discussed and gathered the entries is here:
>
> https://forms.gle/CWhnVMwumq4pNzoJ6
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeremy.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Niche interest - popup placement demo

[Eric Shulman]

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:00:40 AM UTC-7 Ste wrote:

> I like the ability to set the pop up direction. 
>

The popup position is automatically calculated based on the $button that 
invokes it, combined with the position="..." keywords.
However, there are MANY more possibilities by using a bit of CSS to adjust 
the position, like this:

<$button popup=<>> CLICK ME! 
<$reveal state=<> type="popup" 
position="belowright">
   
  POPUP CONTENT HERE
  
  SOME MORE CONTENT
  
  ETC.
   


Notes:
1) In the example above, we use "transform:translate(0,calc(-50% - 1em));" 
to shift the popup y-offset up by half the height of the popup less 1em 
extra to account for the height of the $button text
2) The result is that the popup appears directly to the right of the 
$button, but is now vertically centered with the $button text
3) Of course, you can use X,Y values in the translate(...) to adjust the 
position to put it exactly where you want, with much finer control than 
just using the built-in position="..." param

enjoy,
-e

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[tw5] Tiddlyserver Error

[alan.s...@gmail.com]

Hi all,

I just upgraded my Mint OS and, in the process installed new Node.JS and 
TiddlyServer applications (2.2.0-beta-4). The Tiddlers directory is 
unchanged and my configuration file is attached.

I get the following error message every few seconds:

Sync error while processing save of '$:/StoryList': Error: ENOENT: no such 
file or directory, open 
'/usr/local/lib/node_modules/tiddlyserver/datafolder/tiddlers/$__StoryList.tid

and, eventually, the Javascript heap runs out of memory.

Anyone have an idea what the problem might be?

Thanks,
Alan

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[tw5] Re: Niche interest - popup placement demo

[Ste]

That's cool! 
I like the ability to set the pop up direction. 
I've been using repopup plugin from the mentat sit 
(https://thesherwood.github.io/Mentat/)
To keep my polyps in order but I will have a play with this! 

On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 20:41:39 UTC+1 clutterstack wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I made a demonstration of popup placement using the reveal widget's 
> position attribute. It doesn't give you control of all the factors that 
> might affect popup shape and position, but it did help me to understand the 
> behaviour and intent of each positioning option.
>
>
> https://clutterstack-tw-notes.tiddlyhost.com/#Demo%20-%20popup%20positioning%20with%20reveal%20widget
>
> Best,
> Chris
>

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[tw5] Re: How can I hide the color-picker when adding a "color" field?

[Eric Shulman]

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 5:06:39 AM UTC-7 TW Tones wrote:

> Looking at your example it makes me ask if perhaps a special case operator 
> would be nice 
> Rather than [[$id$]!is[blank]else!is[blank]else[]]
> perhaps [case[$id$,] where the first non blank value is used or 
> nothing at all.
>

The only thing that this eliminates is an implied "!is[blank]" syntax, but 
I can imagine that other conditional filters (e.g., match[], compare[], 
is[tiddler], etc.) might also be useful, so I'd be hesitant to make a 
special "case[...]" operator for this purpose.
In addition, to fit with the existing comma-separated operand syntax (e.g. 
"[search-replace[this],[that]]") your suggestion would written slightly 
differently, like this:

<$vars foo={{{ [case[$id$],,{!!id},{id},2] }}}>

Also note that in the actual TiddlyTools/Macros/edit-list-vars code, I 
switched to using separate filter runs with the "~" (else) prefix.
This allows whitespace to be placed between the runs so that the "cases" 
are much more readable.

-e

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[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[ludwa6]

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 1:55:52 PM UTC+1 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> I pretty much always see browser back and forward buttons as evil.


BLASPHEMY!  Ted Nelson is rolling over in his grave right now, @Charlie; 
you'd better recant, or face hellfire & damnation yourself :-)
Seriously tho: Lot's of people rely on those browser built-ins (not to 
mention me) -besides which: to whatever extent there be anything like a 
standard feature in ALL browsers, those arrow buttons are two of the few, 
so... This is not an issue to blow off, if we're talking here about 
mainstream pedestrian usage of TW as a worthy goal.  /w

I'm also no fan of the storyriver in TiddlyWiki.
>

Here i have to agree: Story River *as implemented by TW*  (not the only 
implementation around, NB) is a foreign concept to most inveterate web 
users -which does bring some interesting possibilities, don't get me wrong, 
but still: anything that so stretches the visual language of story-telling 
on the web has got a serious usability obstacle to overcome.  /w
 

> ..For whatever reason, staying within the boundaries of one "display all" 
> tiddler works best for me:
>
>- either display content in that tiddler based on selections in a 
>sidebar menu (I'm on the fence about that approach)
>   - Like I've done with my  Favourite Stuff and Projects 
>   
>  
>   TiddlyWiki
>- or have everything displaying (or available from) that tiddler, 
>making use of details widgets (or other widgets) to hide/show content, and 
>making use of modals for displaying extra content
>   - Like I've done with my online resume 
>    TiddlyWiki
>
> Those are two clever workarounds you've developed, Charlie, for those who 
(like us two at least) find the river-of-tiddlers approach to nesting 
information kinda awkward.  
Your menu-of-radio-buttons approach is much more familiar and therefore 
usable for most, i would say... 
And those click-to-reveal-content arrows (sliders?) are something of a 
standard in the world of outlining afficionados, and also quite a popular 
UI feature on the web.  
If there be any way to turn these two models of yours into a sort of "skin" 
that could be easily overlaid on an existing TW instance, that would be 
awesome!  /w

>
>- 
>   -  I figure my preferences, always a work in progress, would be far 
>   from universally appealing.  Brains are so wonderfully diverse, I'm not 
>   quite sure what could be universally appealing.
>
> Agree: no point trying to be all things to all people -although, in the 
world of TW geeks, you could almost make that claim.  
Am just saying: if any of you TW devs ever hope to engage something like a 
mainstream audience w/ your app, you've got some serious usability issues 
to overcome...
And if you somehow manage to pull that off, please share your solution 
here, for goodness sake!

/walt

 

> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:59:36 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote:
>
>> Based on my own experience of trying to engage non-technical users -i.e. 
>> those on whom the power & flexibility of TW is not only lost; it is 
>> actually experienced as frictional- i must say: this issue goes so deep, i 
>> don't know how we might solve it, if indeed we can. 
>>
>> More specifically: two issues i've noted as so frustrating to such 
>> "pedestrian" users, they give up before even trying to understand are:
>>
>>1. Native navigation features in the browser are essentially broken 
>>by TW, in that i can't use forward and back arrows to move off the page 
>> and 
>>come back to the place where i left off; and
>>2. To whatever extent i do any editing of a TW instance that i then 
>>want to save, i wind up with the totally unexpected result of a new 
>>multi-mb file on my desktop, and no change in the online instance i 
>> thought 
>>i was updating.
>>
>> If there be any good way of overcoming these obstacles -beyond simply 
>> instructing the user in context to forget about both (1) their browser's 
>> navigation controls and (2) making changes to the online instance- i've yet 
>> to see any example of it.  If in fact any such prior art exists, it would 
>> be great if someone could share it here!
>>
>> /walt
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 11:45:06 AM UTC+1 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>> TW Tones wrote:
>>>
 ... I do think a primary use of tiddlywiki is for private bespoke "free 
 wikis" and unpublished tiddlywiki's which evolve to a users needs, thus 
 perhaps they never mature to a finished product. That is there may be many 
 more times the number of "free" wikis than those suitable to be published.

>>>
>>> I guess that is right! Actually, further than that, it is indicatively 
>>> good of serious usage by folk who can feel good wetting their whistles  on 
>>> code and relish perennial openness, revision and 

[tw5] Re: Another set of eyes on my code

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

The thing is, I do see the second buttons after running the first button. 
So maybe I don't understand what you expect the code to do.

I do change " {{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}" to "MY BUTTON" 
because I don't want to go spelunking all over the TW world to find the 
particular icon you're using. However, if you have instance where you 
forgot to install the icon, that would explain why the button appears to 
not be working.

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-7 TW Tones wrote:

> Thanks all,
>
> Mario, I would share an example, but it is hard to extract a test case 
> because as I said "Deep within a larger project", I will see what I can do 
> if I get nowhere soon. 
>
>- Although when I extracted these macros from the others in an attempt 
>it started working.
>
> Charlie, I always cut and past but usually only from my own working code. 
> but I did remove some white space, thanks.
> Mark, I think that was an issue either not yet discovered as it would not 
> have being displayed however I corrected that to  $value={{{ 
> [get[text]] }}} 
>
> I will keep reviewing thanks all.
>
> Tones
>
> On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 22:49:29 UTC+10 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Deep within a larger project I have some macros. there is a button that 
>> displays its tooltip but its actions are not occurring. I have spent hours 
>> trying work out why it is not working when it did previously.
>>
>> Can anyone see why the first button is visible but not reacting, if it 
>> did I would then see the second button. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>>
>> \define field-state-update() $:/state/$(fieldname)$-update
>> \define tiddler-field-value-temp() 
>> $:/temp/$(currentTiddler)$/$(fieldname)$-update
>> \define field.update() 
>> <$list filter="[!has[title]]" variable=nul>
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>> *   <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="click to edit 
>> $(fieldname)$">*
>> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>> text="existence toggled in field.update macro"/>*
>> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>> text=<>/>*
>> *{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}*
>> *   *
>> 
>> <$list filter="[has[title]]" variable=nul>
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
>><$button message="tm-delete-tiddler" param=<> 
>> class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="finish update of $(fieldname)$">
>>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}
>>
>><$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="Restore $(fieldname)$">
>><$action-setfield $tiddler=<> $field=<> 
>> $value=<$transclude tiddler=<>/> />
>>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/restore-field}}
>>
>> 
>> \end
>>
>> More info
>>
>> I invoke this with <>  and fieldname field-type-tiddler is 
>> already set. The green filter never comes true, also proving 
>> <> is never created.
>> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> text="existence 
>> toggled in field.update macro"/>
>> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>> text=<>/>
>> So the above actions do not occur.
>>
>> These lines in the above work on their own
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tones
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[Charlie Veniot]

I pretty much always see browser back and forward buttons as evil.

I'm also no fan of the storyriver in TiddlyWiki.

The buttons and the storyriver, they are cognitive challenges for this kid.

For whatever reason, staying within the boundaries of one "display all" 
tiddler works best for me:

   - either display content in that tiddler based on selections in a 
   sidebar menu (I'm on the fence about that approach)
  - Like I've done with my  Favourite Stuff and Projects 
  
 
  TiddlyWiki
   - or have everything displaying (or available from) that tiddler, making 
   use of details widgets (or other widgets) to hide/show content, and making 
   use of modals for displaying extra content
  - Like I've done with my online resume 
   TiddlyWiki
   
I figure my preferences, always a work in progress, would be far from 
universally appealing.  Brains are so wonderfully diverse, I'm not quite 
sure what could be universally appealing.

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:59:36 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote:

> Based on my own experience of trying to engage non-technical users -i.e. 
> those on whom the power & flexibility of TW is not only lost; it is 
> actually experienced as frictional- i must say: this issue goes so deep, i 
> don't know how we might solve it, if indeed we can. 
>
> More specifically: two issues i've noted as so frustrating to such 
> "pedestrian" users, they give up before even trying to understand are:
>
>1. Native navigation features in the browser are essentially broken by 
>TW, in that i can't use forward and back arrows to move off the page and 
>come back to the place where i left off; and
>2. To whatever extent i do any editing of a TW instance that i then 
>want to save, i wind up with the totally unexpected result of a new 
>multi-mb file on my desktop, and no change in the online instance i 
> thought 
>i was updating.
>
> If there be any good way of overcoming these obstacles -beyond simply 
> instructing the user in context to forget about both (1) their browser's 
> navigation controls and (2) making changes to the online instance- i've yet 
> to see any example of it.  If in fact any such prior art exists, it would 
> be great if someone could share it here!
>
> /walt
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 11:45:06 AM UTC+1 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do think a primary use of tiddlywiki is for private bespoke "free 
>>> wikis" and unpublished tiddlywiki's which evolve to a users needs, thus 
>>> perhaps they never mature to a finished product. That is there may be many 
>>> more times the number of "free" wikis than those suitable to be published.
>>>
>>
>> I guess that is right! Actually, further than that, it is indicatively 
>> good of serious usage by folk who can feel good wetting their whistles  on 
>> code and relish perennial openness, revision and evolutions. All to the 
>> good.
>>
>> Yet, I was kinda suggesting there is, I think, likely a large range of 
>> audience types, somewhat different, who thrive best on complete apps. 
>> Who they are and how many there I don't think we know at the moment.
>>
>> I think it is an interesting issue. In brief, my question kinda edges 
>> towards: What happens, making apps that only document a de-limited range 
>> functions to better MATCH common (delimited) need spaces tightly?
>>
>> That is why I flagged the thread "Avenues." It kinda captures that idea.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Difference between two timestamps in elapsed time?

[Saq Imtiaz]

Hiya BTC,

It occurs to me that the format:relativedate[] operator could be extended. 
It currently calculates the date relative to now and does not accept any 
parameters. It could be extended to accept a parameter indicating the date 
to compare to, as well as perhaps a format string. The challenge would be 
getting the syntax right so it is intuitive to use.
Might be worth creating a github issue or even a PR if you feel up to it.

Regards,
Saq

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 10:12:37 AM UTC+2 BurningTreeC wrote:

>
> Hi there, tiddlywikians
>
> Let's say I have two timestamps and I want to get the elapsed time from 
> one timestamp to the other, is there a simple way to get this?
>
> I calculate the difference between the timestamps by
>
> <$set name="timestampDiff" value={{{ [subtract] 
> }}}>
> <>
> 
>
> I would appreciate any help :)
>
> best wishes,
> Simon
>

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[tw5] Re: Is there a way to apply a template stored in the field of another tiddler?

[TW Tones]

Si,
 

> Do you think it would be helpful if a shorthand like {{Tiddler to link 
> to||MyTemplate!!template}} worked? Maybe I should make a feature request?
>

Perhaps but I have a faded memory in relation to this, there may be a 
reason why not.

See my documentation 
here https://anthonymuscio.github.io/index.html#Standard%20Nomenclature
I have being looking for {{tiddler|whats here?|template}}

 Not valid for transclusions
  5. {{||tiddlername!!caption}} as it asks for the field caption in 
tiddlername, but insists on using the currentTiddler.

. Below are some *untested possibilities*

My template could contain  {{MyTemplate!!template}} 
thus {{Tiddler to link to||MyTemplate}} will produce the same result.

Or use filters and the filtered transclusions

<$tiddler tiddler="Tiddler to link to" >
{{{ [{MyTemplate!!template}] }}}

 
Or use the long form

<$tiddler tiddler="Tiddler to link to" >
<$transclude tiddler=MyTemplate field=template />


Regards
Tones

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[tw5] Re: Another set of eyes on my code

[Charlie Veniot]

The copy/paste deal that introduced a hidden character, backspacing fixing 
the problem:  it was code copied and pasted within my own tiddlers:  from 
tiddler "A Backup" to tiddler "A".

Just saying, no harm in quick-sanity-check backspacing a line to the 
previous one and slapping in a fresh carriage-return-line-feed-end-o'line 
characters.

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 8:23:10 AM UTC-3 TW Tones wrote:

> Thanks all,
>
> Mario, I would share an example, but it is hard to extract a test case 
> because as I said "Deep within a larger project", I will see what I can do 
> if I get nowhere soon. 
>
>- Although when I extracted these macros from the others in an attempt 
>it started working.
>
> Charlie, I always cut and past but usually only from my own working code. 
> but I did remove some white space, thanks.
> Mark, I think that was an issue either not yet discovered as it would not 
> have being displayed however I corrected that to  $value={{{ 
> [get[text]] }}} 
>
> I will keep reviewing thanks all.
>
> Tones
>
> On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 22:49:29 UTC+10 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Deep within a larger project I have some macros. there is a button that 
>> displays its tooltip but its actions are not occurring. I have spent hours 
>> trying work out why it is not working when it did previously.
>>
>> Can anyone see why the first button is visible but not reacting, if it 
>> did I would then see the second button. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>>
>> \define field-state-update() $:/state/$(fieldname)$-update
>> \define tiddler-field-value-temp() 
>> $:/temp/$(currentTiddler)$/$(fieldname)$-update
>> \define field.update() 
>> <$list filter="[!has[title]]" variable=nul>
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>> *   <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="click to edit 
>> $(fieldname)$">*
>> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>> text="existence toggled in field.update macro"/>*
>> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>> text=<>/>*
>> *{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}*
>> *   *
>> 
>> <$list filter="[has[title]]" variable=nul>
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
>><$button message="tm-delete-tiddler" param=<> 
>> class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="finish update of $(fieldname)$">
>>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}
>>
>><$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="Restore $(fieldname)$">
>><$action-setfield $tiddler=<> $field=<> 
>> $value=<$transclude tiddler=<>/> />
>>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/restore-field}}
>>
>> 
>> \end
>>
>> More info
>>
>> I invoke this with <>  and fieldname field-type-tiddler is 
>> already set. The green filter never comes true, also proving 
>> <> is never created.
>> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> text="existence 
>> toggled in field.update macro"/>
>> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
>> text=<>/>
>> So the above actions do not occur.
>>
>> These lines in the above work on their own
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
>><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tones
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: List Widget Filters "Only" operator

[TW Tones]

A thought! untested.

If you could count the tags and they do not equal two then it can not have 
two tags.
Then say [tag[Tag1]] +[tag[Tag2]]

[all[current]tags[]count[]match[2]then] +[tag[Tag1]] 
+[tag[Tag2]]
Above untested

The store the above in a tiddler as I suggested in my first reply, then if 
you added another tag to the set update it only.

Tones

On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 23:14:59 UTC+10 johnangus...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks everyone, useful information. 
> @PMario - I'll take a look at that and:
> 1) Try and apply the example as written for a single tag to see if I can 
> get it working
> 2) Try and extend to two tags
>
> It looks like it should be straightforward enough and I'll be able to add 
> a new tool to my belt.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
> On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 06:44:43 UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>
>> UUPS, 
>> I didn't read your OP good enough, because my solution works for 1 tag 
>> only. ... BUT it should contain enough info to figure out, how the filter 
>> should look like for your problem;)
>> -m
>>
>> On Monday, July 26, 2021 at 7:39:12 AM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In TW you sometimes need to think different, because filter sets can 
>>> dynamically change as you found out. 
>>>
>>> <$set name="condition" value="[tags[]count[]match[1]]">
>>> <$list filter="[tag[a]filter]"/>
>>> 
>>>
>>> In this example, the first filter tag[a] gets all tiddlers that have a 
>>> tag a. 
>>> The second condition is 
>>>   - get all tags of that tiddler,  
>>>   - count them and 
>>>   - compare to 1" ... So "a" is the only tag because of the initial 
>>> filter -> \o/
>>>
>>> The filter operator applies the condition to the current tiddler and 
>>> returns its title, if the condition is not empty. 
>>>
>>> See: 
>>> https://tiddlywiki.com/#tags%20Operator:%5B%5Btags%20Operator%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bcount%20Operator%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bmatch%20Operator%5D%5D%20%5B%5Bfilter%20Operator%5D%5D%20%5B%5BFilter%20Operators%5D%5D
>>>
>>> have fun!
>>> mario
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Difference between two timestamps in elapsed time?

[TW Tones]

BTC,

There are a few date range (time within thaT) calculation tools, the first 
that comes to mind is in Evans Formula plugin, Eric's timer tools may do it 
for you, I think there is another.

   - If its only today simple maths can be used (separate the hours and 
   minutes) unless it goes over the 00:00
   - Is can be safer to always use a full date serial number to cope with 
   more than one day or aging items.

I will let you know if I recall something else.

Tones
On Tuesday, 27 July 2021 at 18:12:37 UTC+10 BurningTreeC wrote:

>
> Hi there, tiddlywikians
>
> Let's say I have two timestamps and I want to get the elapsed time from 
> one timestamp to the other, is there a simple way to get this?
>
> I calculate the difference between the timestamps by
>
> <$set name="timestampDiff" value={{{ [subtract] 
> }}}>
> <>
> 
>
> I would appreciate any help :)
>
> best wishes,
> Simon
>

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[tw5] Re: How can I hide the color-picker when adding a "color" field?

[TW Tones]

Thanks Eric,

This not only allows me to use my variable names but your internal 
variables stay the same so no modifications at all, as you say. This is a 
particularly useful solution when the widget or macro concerned is packed 
with functionality, which is forced upon us through the combining the 
edit-text and filtered selections. Personally I may use <> 
rather than <>  and I may even create other macros to use 
the edit-list macro features where many of the parameters are already set. 
In many ways this is layers of abstraction, and simplification, while 
maintaining maximum features.

Now some speculation

Looking at your example it makes me ask if perhaps a special case operator 
would be nice 
Rather than [[$id$]!is[blank]else!is[blank]else[]]
perhaps [case[$id$,] where the first non blank value is used or nothing 
at all.
or [case[$id$,,{!!id},{id},2] where the first non blank value is used 
or 2 (because it will always provide a value ie 2 is the default).

Or alternatively the match could allow parameters 
match[$id$,,{!!id},{id}]

Because the truth is there are many cases where the first non-blank value 
is what we are after.

I think the operator parameters demand this following format.

eg filters such as 
[{$:/config/name}case[yes]]
[{$:/config/name}case[yes],[no],[maybe]]  as a valid parameter test

Allowing a full "case" statement;

<$list filter="[case[small],[medium],[large]]" variable=case>
   <$list filter="[match[small]]">

  
   <$list filter="[match[medium]]">

  
   <$list filter="[match[large]]">

  



Tones


On Tuesday, 27 July 2021 at 08:58:19 UTC+10 Eric Shulman wrote:

> On Monday, July 26, 2021 at 7:40:48 AM UTC-7 Eric Shulman wrote:
>
>> OK... so I thought of a really neat way to achieve your goal *without 
>> modifying my macro!*
>
>
> Tony,
>
> I've just added this method of using variables vs. parameters as an 
> alternative macro definition:
>
> https://tiddlytools.com/edit-list.html#TiddlyTools%2FMacros%2Fedit-list-vars
>
> which is invoked using: <>
>
> Of course, you will still need to have the underlying macro definition as 
> well:
> https://tiddlytools.com/edit-list.html#TiddlyTools%2FMacros%2Fedit-list
>
> See Notes in 
> https://tiddlytools.com/edit-list.html#TiddlyTools%2FMacros%2Fedit-list%2FInfo
> for more details regarding usage.
>
> enjoy,
> -e
>

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[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[ludwa6]

Based on my own experience of trying to engage non-technical users -i.e. 
those on whom the power & flexibility of TW is not only lost; it is 
actually experienced as frictional- i must say: this issue goes so deep, i 
don't know how we might solve it, if indeed we can. 

More specifically: two issues i've noted as so frustrating to such 
"pedestrian" users, they give up before even trying to understand are:

   1. Native navigation features in the browser are essentially broken by 
   TW, in that i can't use forward and back arrows to move off the page and 
   come back to the place where i left off; and
   2. To whatever extent i do any editing of a TW instance that i then want 
   to save, i wind up with the totally unexpected result of a new multi-mb 
   file on my desktop, and no change in the online instance i thought i was 
   updating.

If there be any good way of overcoming these obstacles -beyond simply 
instructing the user in context to forget about both (1) their browser's 
navigation controls and (2) making changes to the online instance- i've yet 
to see any example of it.  If in fact any such prior art exists, it would 
be great if someone could share it here!

/walt


On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 11:45:06 AM UTC+1 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> TW Tones wrote:
>
>> ... I do think a primary use of tiddlywiki is for private bespoke "free 
>> wikis" and unpublished tiddlywiki's which evolve to a users needs, thus 
>> perhaps they never mature to a finished product. That is there may be many 
>> more times the number of "free" wikis than those suitable to be published.
>>
>
> I guess that is right! Actually, further than that, it is indicatively 
> good of serious usage by folk who can feel good wetting their whistles  on 
> code and relish perennial openness, revision and evolutions. All to the 
> good.
>
> Yet, I was kinda suggesting there is, I think, likely a large range of 
> audience types, somewhat different, who thrive best on complete apps. 
> Who they are and how many there I don't think we know at the moment.
>
> I think it is an interesting issue. In brief, my question kinda edges 
> towards: What happens, making apps that only document a de-limited range 
> functions to better MATCH common (delimited) need spaces tightly?
>
> That is why I flagged the thread "Avenues." It kinda captures that idea.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: Another set of eyes on my code

[TW Tones]

Thanks all,

Mario, I would share an example, but it is hard to extract a test case 
because as I said "Deep within a larger project", I will see what I can do 
if I get nowhere soon. 

   - Although when I extracted these macros from the others in an attempt 
   it started working.

Charlie, I always cut and past but usually only from my own working code. 
but I did remove some white space, thanks.
Mark, I think that was an issue either not yet discovered as it would not 
have being displayed however I corrected that to  $value={{{ 
[get[text]] }}} 

I will keep reviewing thanks all.

Tones

On Monday, 26 July 2021 at 22:49:29 UTC+10 TW Tones wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Deep within a larger project I have some macros. there is a button that 
> displays its tooltip but its actions are not occurring. I have spent hours 
> trying work out why it is not working when it did previously.
>
> Can anyone see why the first button is visible but not reacting, if it did 
> I would then see the second button. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>
> \define field-state-update() $:/state/$(fieldname)$-update
> \define tiddler-field-value-temp() 
> $:/temp/$(currentTiddler)$/$(fieldname)$-update
> \define field.update() 
> <$list filter="[!has[title]]" variable=nul>
><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
> *   <$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="click to edit 
> $(fieldname)$">*
> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
> text="existence toggled in field.update macro"/>*
> *<$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
> text=<>/>*
> *{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}*
> *   *
> 
> <$list filter="[has[title]]" variable=nul>
><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
><$button message="tm-delete-tiddler" param=<> 
> class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="finish update of $(fieldname)$">
>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/edit-field}}
>
><$button class="tc-btn-invisible" tooltip="Restore $(fieldname)$">
><$action-setfield $tiddler=<> $field=<> 
> $value=<$transclude tiddler=<>/> />
>{{$:/PSaT/fancy-fields/icons/restore-field}}
>
> 
> \end
>
> More info
>
> I invoke this with <>  and fieldname field-type-tiddler is 
> already set. The green filter never comes true, also proving 
> <> is never created.
> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> text="existence 
> toggled in field.update macro"/>
> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle=<> 
> text=<>/>
> So the above actions do not occur.
>
> These lines in the above work on their own
><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-edit"/> 
><$transclude tiddler=<> field="field-view"/> 
>
> Thanks
> Tones
>

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[tw5] Re: [Avenues] My take on TiddlyWiki ...

[TiddlyTweeter]

TW Tones wrote:

> ... I do think a primary use of tiddlywiki is for private bespoke "free 
> wikis" and unpublished tiddlywiki's which evolve to a users needs, thus 
> perhaps they never mature to a finished product. That is there may be many 
> more times the number of "free" wikis than those suitable to be published.
>

I guess that is right! Actually, further than that, it is indicatively good 
of serious usage by folk who can feel good wetting their whistles  on code 
and relish perennial openness, revision and evolutions. All to the good.

Yet, I was kinda suggesting there is, I think, likely a large range of 
audience types, somewhat different, who thrive best on complete apps. 
Who they are and how many there I don't think we know at the moment.

I think it is an interesting issue. In brief, my question kinda edges 
towards: What happens, making apps that only document a de-limited range 
functions to better MATCH common (delimited) need spaces tightly?

That is why I flagged the thread "Avenues." It kinda captures that idea.

Best wishes
TT

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[tw5] Difference between two timestamps in elapsed time?

[BurningTreeC]

Hi there, tiddlywikians

Let's say I have two timestamps and I want to get the elapsed time from one 
timestamp to the other, is there a simple way to get this?

I calculate the difference between the timestamps by

<$set name="timestampDiff" value={{{ [subtract] }}}>
<>


I would appreciate any help :)

best wishes,
Simon

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