[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Ste Wilson]

No.. Much simpler question :)

<> all works fine. 
<> or
<> 

Or any other combination of " and >> I have tried don't get me an iframe :)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

@Stephen, I'm guessing you're referring to that the content of your iframe, 
i.e the embedded page, does not "adjust" to the size of the iframe, yes? 
I'm afraid that is up to the embedded page as far as I know. I believe you 
can "clip" the embedded page, using the deprecated but (I think) functional 
CSS clip attribute,  but it's a bit messy.

On my screen, if I hide the sidebar at least the horizontal scroll is 
avoided. Matter of screen size.

<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Stephen Wilson]

I'm probably just being slow...but how does the syntax for the iframes 
one look?

Thought I could update the template to this:



Title, by Homepage name
 

which looks like:

http://stephenteacher.tiddlyspot.com/#KaTeX%20Functions

On Friday, 19 May 2017 18:31:33 UTC+1, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mat
>
> At the practical level its perhaps worth in the documentation noting that 
> the .txt works WELL in Chrome though poorly in Firefox. Its worth it for 
> the Chrome IMO, even though I don't use it much, as it is the majority 
> browser.
>
> Best wìshes
> Josiah
>
> On Friday, 19 May 2017 18:57:13 UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>>
>> Josiah
>>
>> .txt files wrapping - You're right. It seems it wraps well in Chrome but 
>> not in Firefox. I googled around but find no solution :-/
>>
>> Again, of course, this is not because of RichLink, and likely not TW.  
>> Frustrating with all these browser differences.
>>
>> <:-)
>>
>>
>>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

At the practical level its perhaps worth in the documentation noting that 
the .txt works WELL in Chrome though poorly in Firefox. Its worth it for 
the Chrome IMO, even though I don't use it much, as its is the majority 
browser.

Best wìshes
Josiah

On Friday, 19 May 2017 18:57:13 UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> Josiah
>
> .txt files wrapping - You're right. It seems it wraps well in Chrome but 
> not in Firefox. I googled around but find no solution :-/
>
> Again, of course, this is not because of RichLink, and likely not TW.  
> Frustrating with all these browser differences.
>
> <:-)
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

The whole fantasy of "Web standards" makes me apoplectic. Standards, my 
ass. Ending up having to deal with someone else's problem basically put me 
completely off getting into net stuff beyond the superficial level. 

I take my hat off to people who can handle the mess it really is.

*Rant off*

Josiah

On Friday, 19 May 2017 18:57:13 UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> Josiah
>
> .txt files wrapping - You're right. It seems it wraps well in Chrome but 
> not in Firefox. I googled around but find no solution :-/
>
> Again, of course, this is not because of RichLink, and likely not TW.  
> Frustrating with all these browser differences.
>
> <:-)
>
>
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

Josiah

.txt files wrapping - You're right. It seems it wraps well in Chrome but 
not in Firefox. I googled around but find no solution :-/

Again, of course, this is not because of RichLink, and likely not TW.  
Frustrating with all these browser differences.

<:-)


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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

I just tried the same in Chrome on PC & it comes wrapped and with correct 
paragraph breaks like this bit ...


Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

To clarify, what I am seeing in Firefox on PC is this from your demo ...


Without wrapping of paragraphs to the "object window" width its not really 
readable.

Best wishes
Josiah. 

On Friday, 19 May 2017 15:45:44 UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>
>> I been looking at the ".txt" file type.
>>
>> I been looking around to see if there is a simple way to wrap long lines 
>> in "objects" of that type so you can properly read them. I haven't found 
>> any. Maybe its a fundamental limitation? 
>>
>
> Not sure what you mean. Does the text not wrap properly for you in the 
> object? I.e can you not put anything...
>
> 
> $link$ (missing or not supported)
> 
>
>
> Because its not a part of TW file you can't enforce any styling on it? I'm 
>> not clear if JavaScript might be able to do that or not?
>
>  
> I believe  has the same limitations as iframes, i.e that you can 
> style the object/iframe but not the content because the content is on 
> someone elses domain. BUT there are tricks that could enable it, involving 
> JavaScript, where you e.g scrape the content and reproduce it locally. This 
> would, as far as I can tell, be particularly suitable for plain texts. 
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
> I been looking at the ".txt" file type.
>
> I been looking around to see if there is a simple way to wrap long lines 
> in "objects" of that type so you can properly read them. I haven't found 
> any. Maybe its a fundamental limitation? 
>

Not sure what you mean. Does the text not wrap properly for you in the 
object? I.e can you not put anything...


$link$ (missing or not supported)



Because its not a part of TW file you can't enforce any styling on it? I'm 
> not clear if JavaScript might be able to do that or not?

 
I believe  has the same limitations as iframes, i.e that you can 
style the object/iframe but not the content because the content is on 
someone elses domain. BUT there are tricks that could enable it, involving 
JavaScript, where you e.g scrape the content and reproduce it locally. This 
would, as far as I can tell, be particularly suitable for plain texts. 

<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

I been looking at the ".txt" file type.

I been looking around to see if there is a simple way to wrap long lines in 
"objects" of that type to make texts with long lines wrap so you can 
properly read them. I haven't found any. Maybe its a fundamental 
limitation? Because its not a part of TW file you can't enforce any styling 
on it? I'm not clear if JavaScript might be able to do that or not?

Best wishes
Josiah

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 21:44:36 UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
>
> The TWaddler, inspired by a request 
> , proudly 
> presents...
>
> RichLinks 
>
>
> <:-)
>
>
> P.S - If you like TiddlyWiki, TELL your friends 
> .
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

I think of "local files" as just those on my PC. But I think of "relative 
links" for use both locally AND online. The point being to create something 
that works whatever the context. 

J, x

On Thursday, 18 May 2017 18:20:35 UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
> Josiah,
>
> "relative paths" - OK, I think you're referring to what I would call 
> "local files".
>
> Thanks for your test! I hadn't investigated this but, yes, it does work - 
> it is a matter of using a link/path with a supported filetype ending (e.g 
> jpg). Any difference in behaviour from external links should not be 
> because of RichLinks. Anyway, thanks. I should update the docs to make this 
> clear.
>
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

Josiah,

... is there a way that the RichLinks can elegantly degrade into a normal 
> link IF an embeddable viewer is not available?
>

That's a good idea - for all templates! If the rich embedding fails, the 
link should show! Currently, nothing is shown which is bad. I'll see what I 
can do.

Thanks!

<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

Mark S,

Am I missing something -- is there a way to use this with PDF?
>

I felt compelled to split out the demo for PDF 
 because some 
browsers insist on triggering download for PDFs. But, yeah, it does work, 
and eventual "problems" is likely not because of RichLink.

<:-)


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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

Josiah,

"relative paths" - OK, I think you're referring to what I would call "local 
files".

Thanks for your test! I hadn't investigated this but, yes, it does work - 
it is a matter of using a link/path with a supported filetype ending (e.g 
jpg). Any difference in behaviour from external links should not be 
because of RichLinks. Anyway, thanks. I should update the docs to make this 
clear.


<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

You're right. I must have done something wrong with my first test.

Text also works, which is good because text doesn't work with 
_canonical_uri on my system.

Thanks,
Mark

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 7:53:01 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> It works fine with PDF. 
>
> The issue may be PDF does not always work fine with it. 
>
> That is not a RichLinks issue per se. Its most likely a browser settings 
> issue. PDFs can be more complicated than other file types. 
>
> As a start I suggest checking the browser settings to ensure that its 
> using its own "preview" / "viewer" and not a third-party app for PDF.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Am I missing something -- is there a way to use this with PDF?
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

On the issues for PDF display ... is there a way that the RichLink can 
elegantly degrade into a normal link IF an embeddable viewer is not 
available?

I'm not sure how much of a regular occurrence PDF display failure in-page 
is now. But it does happen because the handling of the PDF file type in 
browsers, at least in the past, was quite complex and often involved 
invoking 3rd party apps.  

Just comments
Josiah

On Thursday, 18 May 2017 16:53:01 UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> It works fine with PDF. 
>
> The issue may be PDF does not always work fine with it. 
>
> That is not a RichLinks issue per se. Its most likely a browser settings 
> issue. PDFs can be more complicated than other file types. 
>
> As a start I suggest checking the browser settings to ensure that its 
> using its own "preview" / "viewer" and not a third-party app for PDF.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Am I missing something -- is there a way to use this with PDF?
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

It works fine with PDF. 

The issue may be PDF does not always work fine with it. 

That is not a RichLinks issue per se. Its most likely a browser settings 
issue. PDFs can be more complicated than other file types. 

As a start I suggest checking the browser settings to ensure that its using 
its own "preview" / "viewer" and not a third-party app for PDF.

Best wishes
Josiah

Mark S. wrote:
>
> Am I missing something -- is there a way to use this with PDF?
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

Very nice!

Am I missing something -- is there a way to use this with PDF?

Thanks!
Mark

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 12:44:36 PM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
>
> The TWaddler, inspired by a request 
> , proudly 
> presents...
>
> RichLinks 
>
>
> <:-)
>
>
> P.S - If you like TiddlyWiki, TELL your friends 
> .
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat & Thomas

Just FYI, the JavaScript that supports the Twitter functionality basically 
initiates a single, unrepeated talk with "mother Twitter" on load. The 
Twitter bits you see are built on load. Occasionally there are glitches in 
the to-and-fro with mother. Reload usually sorts them. As you realize, 
nothing is visible after a change on Twitter embed stuff until re-load.

Josiah

Mat wrote ...

> Thomas ...
>>
> The tweet did not show up for me when I tried yesterday, but it does now.
>>
>
> Interestingly that is how it behaved for me too. But that also happened 
> when I tried the TW Twitter plugin itself, i.e without RichLink. I believe 
> a page reload made the tweet appear. 
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

I did a test as follows that confirms the plugin supports relative paths, 
at least for the ".jpg" file type. I haven't tried the other types yet but 
assume they will too.

The code...

<>

... works identically for a local TW and for the same TW put online. I hope 
this clarifies what I meant. It also answered my own question :-).

Best wishes
Josiah

Mat wrote ...

> Josiah suggested ...
>>
> 3 - Give one example of using relative paths (is that doable?) such that 
>> you could author locally and then upload & still  have it work.
>>
>
> Please describe a bit more what you mean.
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

PMario wrote:
>
> There are several ways to achieve similar results, but if the core 
> dictates one approach we need to stick with it. In my opinion stuff like 
> this is perfectly fine as a plugin.
>

>From a marketing perspective, this is almost a given. IMO this is one of 
those things that people expect in modern comparable systems.

It is even so fundamental that much of it is part of HTML5. Integrating it 
into TW would only bring the functionality closer to the user for easy 
application. To use Josiahs term here above, "we're selling TW short" by 
not featuring this in the standard distro. 


If the core renders external links, they should behave like browser links. 
> They should open new tabs. .. I personally don't want to open a PDF inside 
> a tiddler. I want it to be a link to a new tab. 
>

Ok, but again, which templates to include is another matter. If no template 
is identified for a link... then it's just a normal link.

Actually, I'm reminded of the setting for tiddler titles - "show as text 
VS. show as link".  External links could be "show embedded (where template 
exists)  VS. show as plain link". 

So: No forced pinging and no forced display - which seem to be your main 
objections (and I agree with them!)  Rather, only the "infrastructure", i.e 
the equivalents of the richlink main macro and the dictionary, to simplify 
custom templates. 


<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Cari

I have no idea on the underlying tech issues. 

*I do feel we are selling TW short by NOT having ways that users can find 
brilliant plugins like Mat's without having to read f***g google groups 
24/7. *

So, overall, I feel PMario's "improve the plugin discovery mechanism" is 
likely the rightest direction if we want anyone but Constant Readers to 
have a clue what is avialable.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[PMario]

Hi Mat,

There are several ways to achieve similar results, but if the core dictates 
one approach we need to stick with it. In my opinion stuff like this is 
perfectly fine as a plugin.

If the core renders external links, they should behave like browser links. 
They should open new tabs. .. I personally don't want to open a PDF inside 
a tiddler. I want it to be a link to a new tab. 

Plugins also have the advantage, that the development can be completely 
independent from the core. So the update / feature request cycle can be 
much faster. 

So my proposal is to improve the plugin discovery mechanism, instead of 
including every possible extension into the core. 

-m

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 12:39:28 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:
>
> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 12:46:39 PM UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>>
>>
>> BTW, anyone who thinks TW should feature something like this as a 
>> standard,
>> please add a like to this github request 
>> .
>>
>
> Not really a fan of this being default. ... eg: If you load content from 
> 3rd parties like ths, you ping them
>


Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. The core wouldn't 
necessarily have to provide any "pinging" templates at all. It could 
feature the equivalent of the richlink main macro and the (customizable) 
dictionary, without templates... but, it could (should!) IMO provide at 
least templates for *local* files. Many people want to show e.g pdf 
documents and it would be super simple for people to make e.g nice image 
albums or audio or video libraries for local files.

...AND if the user does want the pinging commercial services, then he can 
rather easily make those too.


<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[PMario]

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 12:46:39 PM UTC+2, Mat wrote:
>
>
> BTW, anyone who thinks TW should feature something like this as a standard,
> please add a like to this github request 
> .
>

Not really a fan of this being default. ... eg: If you load content from 
3rd parties like ths, you ping them and provide a whole load of information 
about your current status and activity. eg: IP address used, which gives a 
good approximation of your current location. Content, that you are 
interested in, at the current moment ... and so on. 

This is a nice plugin, and it should stay that way! Everyone, who wants to 
use it, should be able to do so. ... AND ... everyone, who doesn't want to 
expose private information, should be free to do so as well. 

just my 2cents
mario

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[HC Haase]

This is awesome.. would be cool to have this as standard.

Den søndag den 14. maj 2017 kl. 12.46.39 UTC+2 skrev Mat:
>
>
> BTW, anyone who thinks TW should feature something like this as a standard,
> please add a like to this github request 
> .
>
> <:-) 
>
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat ...

That's the problem though; you can't delete what you don't want from a 
> plugin
>

Oops, sorry. I never knew! 

Josiah

Josiah: 
>
>> 2 - Don't bother with options on the various "sites or file types". Just 
>> wrap them ALL in a plugin (the overhead is small) and give note you can 
>> delete what you don't need and make new ones. 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

@Josiah,

I updated the Soundcloud demo to mention their users have reported 
problems. Thanks for info.
info to mention 

1 - Release it as a proper plugin.
>

> 2 - Don't bother with options on the various "sites or file types". Just 
> wrap them ALL in a plugin (the overhead is small) and give note you can 
> delete what you don't need and make new ones. 
>

That's the problem though; you can't delete what you don't want from a 
plugin. And even if I add only, say, the main macro and the dictionary into 
a plugin, there's still the need for the Split plugin.
 

3 - Give one example of using relative paths (is that doable?) such that 
> you could author locally and then upload & still  have it work.
>

Please describe a bit more what you mean.
 

4 - Mention you can use the "Stamp" tool to insert a boilerplate for it in 
> the editor.
>

Good point. Might look into that.  If anyone makes such a stamp, I'd be 
happy to include it.


<:-)

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Great Utility. Both works and also highlights how good/easy TW can be. 
These are the kinds of mature utilities we need.

Three suggestions ...

1 - Release it as a proper plugin.

2 - Don't bother with options on the various "sites or file types". Just 
wrap them ALL in a plugin (the overhead is small) and give note you can 
delete what you don't need and make new ones. 

3 - Give one example of using relative paths (is that doable?) such that 
you could author locally and then upload & still  have it work.

4 - Mention you can use the "Stamp" tool to insert a boilerplate for it in 
the editor.

Best wishes
Josiah

Mat wrote:
>
>
> The TWaddler, inspired by a request 
> , proudly 
> presents...
>
> RichLinks 
> 
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

Indeed there are issues with Soundcloud in Chrome. I don't understand what 
the issue is but users regularly report it.

My 2 cents,
Josiah

Mat wrote...
>
> I'm curious, does the *soundcloud *link play the song without issues? It 
> doesn't for me in Chrome 
>

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

BTW, anyone who thinks TW should feature something like this as a standard,
please add a like to this github request 
.

<:-) 

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[tw] Re: Presenting: RichLinks - external links presented as objects

[Mat]

Thanks Thomas!

The tweet did not show up for me when I tried yesterday, but it does now.
>

Interestingly that is how it behaved for me too. But that also happened 
when I tried the TW Twitter plugin itself, i.e without RichLink. I believe 
a page reload made the tweet appear. 

 

> Everything else seemed to work immediately. Great demos!
>

I'm curious, does the *soundcloud *link play the song without issues? It 
doesn't for me in Chrome but it works in FF. I corresponded with Birthe who 
also reported irregularities for different OS's (i.e not browsers). But 
again, this is unlikely to have anything to do with RichLink which is just 
a "shell".


Have you thought about making a richlink-plugin?
>

Yeah... but I'm not sure what to put into it. The main macro yes, but much 
other stuff is made for customization and none of the templates are 
required.  And it needs Tobias' split plugin which opens a generally 
interesting question on how to present a plugin that requires another (I 
posted this issue apropos 
this).

Thanks for you feedback Thomas!

<:-) 

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