[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

The solution would be if Bob used a special path name (virtual path) for 
the Wikis, and not for images. That way the two path types could be 
distinguished without making Bob incompatible with other uses of TW.

-- Mark

On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 3:43:31 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Jed Carty wrote:
>>
>> The reasons are the same as why until 5.1.18 comes out the node version 
>> didn't have a static file server and that the static file server with the 
>> server in 5.1.18 does the same thing:
>>
>
> Right. I don't have any problem with it per se now I better understand it. 
> And I'm grateful you keep malicious hackers away. You have that skill & its 
> good.
>
> The singular issue I have is that node/Bob serving of files involves (1) 
> an url path that has a "folder" that does not exist on the hard drive so:  
> (2) the wiki end up with "hard-coded" addresses that don't exist on disk. 
> Which means (3) you have to manually edit them to adjust if you export to 
> single file. That is the central issue for me to solve for the kind of wiki 
> I make, involving quite a lot of images.
>
> Regarding me using the word "virtual". I don't really mind what word is 
> used actually. But the point was to help users, not familiar with node/Bob 
> that pathing to external local files do use a "fictive entity" in the path 
> (needed in the world of Bob/node, but a bit of a drag in any other). *I* 
> found that hard to grasp. And I think others would too, at first.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed Carty wrote:
>
> The reasons are the same as why until 5.1.18 comes out the node version 
> didn't have a static file server and that the static file server with the 
> server in 5.1.18 does the same thing:
>

Right. I don't have any problem with it per se now I better understand it. 
And I'm grateful you keep malicious hackers away. You have that skill & its 
good.

The singular issue I have is that node/Bob serving of files involves (1) an 
url path that has a "folder" that does not exist on the hard drive so:  (2) 
the wiki end up with "hard-coded" addresses that don't exist on disk. Which 
means (3) you have to manually edit them to adjust if you export to single 
file. That is the central issue for me to solve for the kind of wiki I 
make, involving quite a lot of images.

Regarding me using the word "virtual". I don't really mind what word is 
used actually. But the point was to help users, not familiar with node/Bob 
that pathing to external local files do use a "fictive entity" in the path 
(needed in the world of Bob/node, but a bit of a drag in any other). *I* 
found that hard to grasp. And I think others would too, at first.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 10:36:26 AM UTC-7, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> The server Bob uses a web server that can serve multiple wikis, when the 
> server gets a request it has to determine what the url is supposed to point 
> to, if you don't have a prefix for files than requests to the server can be 
> ambiguous about if they are supposed to be a served file or a wiki and you 
> get inconsistent behaviour. When you have inconsistent behaviour is almost 
> always a security risk.
>
>
>
I don't get what you mean by "a served file or a wiki". Isn't there a world 
of difference between the two? 

And why couldn't it be the other way around -- have the "file/" prefix 
associated with the Wikis, while the served files can have any prefix (but 
only served from below the file root path). Having the prefix on the Wiki 
name would not cause the consternation that having it on the image path 
name.

As it is, the image paths for Bob will be totally incompatible with 
standalone, TiddlyDesktop, and tiddlyserver file paths.

Thanks,
-- Mark

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

The reasons are the same as why until 5.1.18 comes out the node version 
didn't have a static file server and that the static file server with the 
server in 5.1.18 does the same thing:

1) engineers that make things have an obligation to make sure that the 
things that they make are safe to use
2) it is a webserver, not a local file. The paths aren't virtual paths or 
anything like that, they are urls. A url doesn't necessarily have any 
relation to the file system location of what it points to, but it does have 
meaning to the server.

The server Bob uses a web server that can serve multiple wikis, when the 
server gets a request it has to determine what the url is supposed to point 
to, if you don't have a prefix for files than requests to the server can be 
ambiguous about if they are supposed to be a served file or a wiki and you 
get inconsistent behaviour. When you have inconsistent behaviour is almost 
always a security risk.

To prevent Bob from exposing everything on your hard drive to anyone who 
wants it there are a number of safeguards. When serving a wiki the wiki has 
to be listed in the settings and the tiddlywiki.info file has to exist, 
because of how tiddlywiki is structured there is relatively little risk 
involved there. There is far more risk when serving arbitrary files off of 
your computer. If you are not very careful with it than there are ways to 
ask for a file located somewhere like ../../../../.ssh and then get all the 
private keys or passwords on a computer.

And furthermore, Because Bob lets you have wikis hosted on paths like 
localhost:8080/Wiki1 and localhost:8080/Wiki1/Wiki2 it becomes ambiguous 
how to handle something like localhost:8080/Wiki1/foo.jpg, it could be a 
wiki called foo.jpg or it could be the file foo.jpg. Exploiting edge cases 
like that is one method of gaining unauthorised access to systems.

Putting all the static file serving on localhost:8080/files and using a 
defined mimeMap to filter requests helps with those problems.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Oddly enough, I assumed that "Bob documentation" was the actual 
documentation. 

Bob wouldn't serve images until I added fileURLPrefix. At first I thought 
it might be the missing mime type that was the problem, but after 
fileURLPrefix I could remove the manual mime types. 

Thanks
-- Mark

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:57:26 AM UTC-7, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> The fileURLPrefix is not undocumented, it is listed with everything else 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Configuration.md
>
> I have not run into any troubles where I had to set the fireURLPrefix 
> before it works, if following the steps as I listed them does not work for 
> you than there is some other problem that we should find and fix.
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote ...
 

> I  don't understand why it needs fileURLPrefix . It means automatically 
> that any existing media tiddlers you have will have to have their path 
> names changed.
>

I have no idea why. All paths to files served right need a path 
prefix--that would be redundant for stand alone TW. I guess its something 
to do with its node history? The naming is a bit strange. And on export to 
single file its kinda the sand in the ointment of an otherwise brilliant 
system.

Just thoughts
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Configuration.md

.. is very good. But I can't find it in BobEXE on Windows? I go to GitHub 
for it. Its a kind of Bible Of Bob.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:40:39 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
> On the other hand Bob scripts can ameliorate the issue somewhat (like 
> quite easy "copy" via OS from and to). But the "virtual" addressing in the 
> wiki itself still needs fixing (i.e. "./f/img/fred.jpg" -> 
> "./img/fred.jpg") when you export to singular.
>
>
> I  don't understand why it needs  fileURLPrefix . It means automatically 
that any existing media tiddlers you have will have to have their path 
names changed.

-- Mark

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

The fileURLPrefix is not undocumented, it is listed with everything 
else https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Configuration.md

I have not run into any troubles where I had to set the fireURLPrefix 
before it works, if following the steps as I listed them does not work for 
you than there is some other problem that we should find and fix.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>> It's semi-documented. It was documented enough for me to know it was 
>> important.
>>
>  
Mask S. asked ... 

> Where exactly is it "semi-documented" ? 
>

When someone asks "exactly" I know I need to come to attention :-).  

I tend to use 
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Configuration.md which does 
include it. Its a kind of Bible of Bob.

But having to have all your images in one location, no matter how you divvy 
> that location up, is what's limiting. 
>

I agree. My take is its about making the best of that. I think its a limit 
on node derivation? 

With plain TW, or TW with tiddlyserver, your files can be somewhere in 
> respect to your TW location, no matter where it is. That way you can zip up 
> the contents of a directory and have all the information that's required to 
> make a complete TW-eco system.


I agree. The files "in the other place" is awkward on export from Bob. It 
requires clear planning in advance or you can get in a mess. You can't just 
press a button and do it auto. 

On the other hand Bob scripts can ameliorate the issue somewhat (like quite 
easy "copy" via OS from and to). But the "virtual" addressing in the wiki 
itself still needs fixing (i.e. "./f/img/fred.jpg" -> "./img/fred.jpg") 
when you export to singular.

Josiah

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 8:03:01 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I had to add the fileURLPrefix (undocumented) before it would work.  
>>
>
> It's semi-documented. It was documented enough for me to know it was 
> important.
>


Where exactly is it "semi-documented" ? 



> Having to serve images from one location is a bit limiting, when you may 
>> have Wikis in multiple locations.
>>
>
> Its easy to create subordinate levels within the "files" folder so that 
> files can be segregated as needed. 
>
>
But having to have all your images in one location, no matter how you divvy 
that location up, is what's limiting. With plain TW, or TW with 
tiddlyserver, your files can be somewhere in respect to your TW location, 
no matter where it is. That way you can zip up the contents of a directory 
and have all the information that's required to make a complete TW-eco 
system.

-- Mark

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[agedlace]

@Josiah

You just caused me to see that what I did may not be the 'best' way! I'm 
still very new to TW5 and do not yetl always appreciate the future proofing 
actions many of you have come to understand.  

I did name the sub-folder the current wiki's name ... now I see that should 
I ever change the wiki's name in the future, all those links will end up 
being broken.  NOT A GOOD SCENARIO!  

I like your suggestion of using some sort of ID or prefix code to name the 
sub-folders.  Also, an ID or prefix-code potentially keeps the links 
shorter as well, as some of my wiki's names [which is what I used for the 
subfolder names] are a little longish at the moment.

Thank you for pointing this out - much easier to fix now than later on down 
the line!

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 11:17:14 AM UTC-4, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Dear aged ... yes!
>
>> I just created sub-folders inside the folder I identified as my filePath 
>> so that I can keep the images for a given wiki separate from the others.  
>>
>
> FWIW I suggested elsewhere that it might be a good idea that when you 
> create a new wiki you can also assign a "files ID" (just two letters that 
> indicate the sub-directory). I reasoned like this ...
>
> What I am wondering is whether when you create a new Wiki you can be 
>> prompted to define a "shorthand ID" for it to ensure you never forget the 
>> base address you need for files so you don't get in a mess? This comes from 
>> concern some of my wiki have many images associated with them. 
>>
>
>  Why is setting a "shorthand ID" useful? You can use it as a variable that 
>> is invoked in a Bob script passed to the OS that tells its where to copy 
>> the files from and where to. Also a problem arises if you don't because, if 
>> you change the name of the wiki, it becomes unclear where to find them. 
>> Basically I (personally) think a set shorthand ID could be useful. 
>
>
> Josiah 
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Dear aged ... yes!

> I just created sub-folders inside the folder I identified as my filePath 
> so that I can keep the images for a given wiki separate from the others.  
>

FWIW I suggested elsewhere that it might be a good idea that when you 
create a new wiki you can also assign a "files ID" (just two letters that 
indicate the sub-directory). I reasoned like this ...

What I am wondering is whether when you create a new Wiki you can be 
> prompted to define a "shorthand ID" for it to ensure you never forget the 
> base address you need for files so you don't get in a mess? This comes from 
> concern some of my wiki have many images associated with them. 
>

 Why is setting a "shorthand ID" useful? You can use it as a variable that 
> is invoked in a Bob script passed to the OS that tells its where to copy 
> the files from and where to. Also a problem arises if you don't because, if 
> you change the name of the wiki, it becomes unclear where to find them. 
> Basically I (personally) think a set shorthand ID could be useful. 


Josiah 

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:
>
> I had to add the fileURLPrefix (undocumented) before it would work.  
>

It's semi-documented. It was documented enough for me to know it was 
important.
 

> Having to serve images from one location is a bit limiting, when you may 
> have Wikis in multiple locations.
>

Its easy to create subordinate levels within the "files" folder so that 
files can be segregated as needed. 

Its just slightly problematic on export methodology to create single-file 
wiki that exports their specific files to them. This is something I 
commented on before but I don't want to lumber Jed's thread with my 
personal interests too much. 

Josiah

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[agedlace]

Mark,

I don't know if this would work for you, but I just created sub-folders 
inside the folder I identified as my filePath so that I can keep the images 
for a given wiki separate from the others.  You just need to make sure you 
add the subfolder to the image's address in the tiddler you're putting it 
in.

I hope that made sense, and was helpful.


On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 10:23:41 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I had to add the fileURLPrefix (undocumented) before it would work.  
>
> Having to serve images from one location is a bit limiting, when you may 
> have Wikis in multiple locations.
>
> Thanks
> -- Mark
>
> On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 2:22:19 AM UTC-7, Jed Carty wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> I am not sure what you mean by 'at the top' and 'at the bottom', but 
>> there is a known bug with the port numbers that can happen when you allow 
>> it to auto-increment ports https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/issues/24
>>
>> To make images serve you have to set the filePathRoot which is the root 
>> path served by the static file server. The default mime is listed in the 
>> serving files documentation 
>> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Serving%20Files.tid
>>  
>> but that was just updated to fix some errors, it had an incomplete listing 
>> for the mimeMap and it said the default url prefix was file instead of 
>> files.
>>
>> And if there isn't a filePathRoot entry than serving files doesn't work, 
>> it has to be enabled by setting a filePathRoot.
>>
>> I have no idea what 'virtual addresses' are supposed to be, the files are 
>> served in the normal way by a webserver.
>>
>> Here are the steps that I just did to make the file server work:
>>
>> 1) Download BobEXE for your system (or set up the plugin version, it 
>> makes no difference but this is faster for testing)
>> 2) Start it and open up the root wiki
>> 3) Go to the $:/ControlPanel
>> 4) Go to the Bob Settings tab in the control panel
>> 5) Go to the Manual Settings tab in the Bob Settings tab
>> 6) At the bottom of where the settings are listed click the last + 
>> button, name the key (the smaller text entry field) filePathRoot and give 
>> it the value (the longer text entry field) that is where you have the files 
>> you want to serve (in my case /home/inmysocks/pictures)
>> 7) Click the check button under the text entry fields
>> 8) Click the Update Settings button
>> 9) Under the Server Actions tab click Shutdown Wiki
>> 10) Restart the wiki
>> 11) Make a new tiddler and put in [img[./files/01.jpg]] (assuming you 
>> have a picture called 01.jpg in the folder listed in the filePathRoot)
>>
>> it does look like there is a bug here where if you do something that 
>> saves the manual settings again it may stop serving files until the server 
>> is restarted again.
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I had to add the fileURLPrefix (undocumented) before it would work.  

Having to serve images from one location is a bit limiting, when you may 
have Wikis in multiple locations.

Thanks
-- Mark

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 2:22:19 AM UTC-7, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I am not sure what you mean by 'at the top' and 'at the bottom', but there 
> is a known bug with the port numbers that can happen when you allow it to 
> auto-increment ports https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/issues/24
>
> To make images serve you have to set the filePathRoot which is the root 
> path served by the static file server. The default mime is listed in the 
> serving files documentation 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Serving%20Files.tid
>  
> but that was just updated to fix some errors, it had an incomplete listing 
> for the mimeMap and it said the default url prefix was file instead of 
> files.
>
> And if there isn't a filePathRoot entry than serving files doesn't work, 
> it has to be enabled by setting a filePathRoot.
>
> I have no idea what 'virtual addresses' are supposed to be, the files are 
> served in the normal way by a webserver.
>
> Here are the steps that I just did to make the file server work:
>
> 1) Download BobEXE for your system (or set up the plugin version, it makes 
> no difference but this is faster for testing)
> 2) Start it and open up the root wiki
> 3) Go to the $:/ControlPanel
> 4) Go to the Bob Settings tab in the control panel
> 5) Go to the Manual Settings tab in the Bob Settings tab
> 6) At the bottom of where the settings are listed click the last + button, 
> name the key (the smaller text entry field) filePathRoot and give it the 
> value (the longer text entry field) that is where you have the files you 
> want to serve (in my case /home/inmysocks/pictures)
> 7) Click the check button under the text entry fields
> 8) Click the Update Settings button
> 9) Under the Server Actions tab click Shutdown Wiki
> 10) Restart the wiki
> 11) Make a new tiddler and put in [img[./files/01.jpg]] (assuming you have 
> a picture called 01.jpg in the folder listed in the filePathRoot)
>
> it does look like there is a bug here where if you do something that saves 
> the manual settings again it may stop serving files until the server is 
> restarted again.
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[agedlace]

This is exactly what I was looking for yesterday!  

Thank you for this precise step-by-step ... I had read the documentation 
but didn't "get it" ... this worked perfectly for me!


On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 5:22:19 AM UTC-4, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I am not sure what you mean by 'at the top' and 'at the bottom', but there 
> is a known bug with the port numbers that can happen when you allow it to 
> auto-increment ports https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/issues/24
>
> To make images serve you have to set the filePathRoot which is the root 
> path served by the static file server. The default mime is listed in the 
> serving files documentation 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Serving%20Files.tid
>  
> but that was just updated to fix some errors, it had an incomplete listing 
> for the mimeMap and it said the default url prefix was file instead of 
> files.
>
> And if there isn't a filePathRoot entry than serving files doesn't work, 
> it has to be enabled by setting a filePathRoot.
>
> I have no idea what 'virtual addresses' are supposed to be, the files are 
> served in the normal way by a webserver.
>
> Here are the steps that I just did to make the file server work:
>
> 1) Download BobEXE for your system (or set up the plugin version, it makes 
> no difference but this is faster for testing)
> 2) Start it and open up the root wiki
> 3) Go to the $:/ControlPanel
> 4) Go to the Bob Settings tab in the control panel
> 5) Go to the Manual Settings tab in the Bob Settings tab
> 6) At the bottom of where the settings are listed click the last + button, 
> name the key (the smaller text entry field) filePathRoot and give it the 
> value (the longer text entry field) that is where you have the files you 
> want to serve (in my case /home/inmysocks/pictures)
> 7) Click the check button under the text entry fields
> 8) Click the Update Settings button
> 9) Under the Server Actions tab click Shutdown Wiki
> 10) Restart the wiki
> 11) Make a new tiddler and put in [img[./files/01.jpg]] (assuming you have 
> a picture called 01.jpg in the folder listed in the filePathRoot)
>
> it does look like there is a bug here where if you do something that saves 
> the manual settings again it may stop serving files until the server is 
> restarted again.
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed wrote  

> I have no idea what 'virtual addresses' are supposed to be ...


My settings are ...



By "Virtual" I meant that an image is addressed in a Bob TW tiddler like 
this ...

[img[./f/bm/img/Funny-Sheep-Facts.jpg]]

The on disk address of the file is actually ...

C:\bag\PortableApps\twBOB\ext\bm\img\Funny-Sheep-Facts.jpg

The "virtual" bit is the "f" //that doesn't actually exist on disk// we 
need in the tiddler. Well that is my current understanding that seems to 
work well.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

It looks like the bug isn't caused by any changes to the manual settings, 
just to adding a new wiki. There is probably something about how the new 
wiki updates the server paths that doesn't play well with the file server 
component. This is why I have a separate server component for the online 
version.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

Mark,

I am not sure what you mean by 'at the top' and 'at the bottom', but there 
is a known bug with the port numbers that can happen when you allow it to 
auto-increment ports https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/issues/24

To make images serve you have to set the filePathRoot which is the root 
path served by the static file server. The default mime is listed in the 
serving files documentation 
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Serving%20Files.tid
 
but that was just updated to fix some errors, it had an incomplete listing 
for the mimeMap and it said the default url prefix was file instead of 
files.

And if there isn't a filePathRoot entry than serving files doesn't work, it 
has to be enabled by setting a filePathRoot.

I have no idea what 'virtual addresses' are supposed to be, the files are 
served in the normal way by a webserver.

Here are the steps that I just did to make the file server work:

1) Download BobEXE for your system (or set up the plugin version, it makes 
no difference but this is faster for testing)
2) Start it and open up the root wiki
3) Go to the $:/ControlPanel
4) Go to the Bob Settings tab in the control panel
5) Go to the Manual Settings tab in the Bob Settings tab
6) At the bottom of where the settings are listed click the last + button, 
name the key (the smaller text entry field) filePathRoot and give it the 
value (the longer text entry field) that is where you have the files you 
want to serve (in my case /home/inmysocks/pictures)
7) Click the check button under the text entry fields
8) Click the Update Settings button
9) Under the Server Actions tab click Shutdown Wiki
10) Restart the wiki
11) Make a new tiddler and put in [img[./files/01.jpg]] (assuming you have 
a picture called 01.jpg in the folder listed in the filePathRoot)

it does look like there is a bug here where if you do something that saves 
the manual settings again it may stop serving files until the server is 
restarted again.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Yeah, you need (1) have the "filePathRoot" set in Manual Settings. Also (2) 
optionally "fileURLPrefix". (3) Ensure that the "mimeMap" is active (I 
found, 2 Bob versions back, I had to set it manually despite docs saying 
they were on by default. I haven't checked if I can remove those manual 
settings on the latest).

Here is an example of my settings ...






I wrote a brief note on my broad take on it for managing files for export: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/tiddlywiki/XsVzEJBDd9Q/6svo1i_BAwAJ

Not being familiar with the node style of serving external files I found 
the "virtual"address of "files" initially somewhat confusing. Now I'm a bit 
clearer.

Once up and running the serving is robust.

HTH
J

On Thursday, 25 October 2018 06:29:03 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> So far no luck getting images to serve. But there wasn't an existing 
> filePathRoot entry, so perhaps I am setting it up wrong? 
>
> -- Mark
>
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Peter Merel]

My head's been out of TW for several months so all this Bob stuff is new to 
me. Well done Jed and and everyone involved! 

But I have a question about a statement on the Multi-User TW5 plugin github 
site  where you say "*a git plugin is currently being developed*”. I see 
this as critical to multi-use TW on the open web and very keen to hear 
about its status. 

I should explain why.


20 years ago I spent a lot of time on the original c2 wiki. I ran one of 
its sister sites, GreenCheese, edited about 2000 pages of the original 
WardsWiki, and built the first open source clone of it, “CvWiki". So I saw 
most of the heat-death of c2 up close and personal. I was one of the dozen 
folk Ward picked as stewards to try to defend it form the trolls … 
unsuccessfully …


Right now I'm running the “free and open source agile” community at 
http://xscalealliance.org . We have a TW at http://xscale.wiki but most of 
our communications are going via slack. I see slack as very inferior to the 
wiki way and I’m keen to open up xscale.wiki to multiple users. But given 
the broad potential community I think I need git integration to do it.


I had been thinking that we’d just let practitioners use TW's single user 
node.js server to edit, and then submit pull requests in the usual git way. 
I probably don’t need to tell you that’s clunky …


What I’m hoping for is a multi-user mode where users are able to make a 
number of local edits on their local copy of the wiki, then when they press 
"save" we would have a pull-request generated automagically along with a 
little form for them to fill in the purpose of their edits. After that, 
normal github-flow should be sufficient for the community to police its own 
development. 


Though I think we might also want the “Recents” tab to be improved to 
change the river to reflect the recently changed tiddlers. RecentChanges 
was the beating pulse of c2 … to the point that back in the day many of us 
made it our browser’s homepage. We called ourselves "RecentChangesJunkies" 
...


No worries if you meant something completely different by this but I 
thought it might save us a lot of duplicated effort if you’re going down 
this path and I'm enormously impressed with the progress you've made on Bob 
to date!

Cheers,

Pete

On Tuesday, 16 October 2018 03:03:32 UTC+11, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> I ended up doing some things on the back-end of Bob that would break 
> backwards compatibility if anyone modified the server components of Bob. I 
> am not aware of anyone who has but this gets a minor version bump anyway. I 
> never got through testing version 1.0.7 before getting distracted so those 
> changes got rolled into this.
>
> This is a prerelease for now because there have been a lot of changes and 
> while I am not aware of any new bugs from them, there may be some I have 
> missed. As always, back up your wikis!! The easiest way is to just make an 
> archive of your Wikis folder and the IndexWiki.
>
> The big changes from the perspective of using Bob are:
> - you can now build html wikis that take tiddlers from any of the wikis 
> served by Bob instead of just building an html version of an existing wiki.
> - You can select which plugins from the server should be used in the 
> current wiki
> - Custom tiddler paths using $:/config/FileSystemPaths should work now
>
> The plugin version of Bob is on GitHub here: 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob
> The newest version of BobEXE is available here: 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-BobEXE/releases
>
> If you want to support the development OokTech has a patreon page here
> https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
> or if you prefer there  is a link for PayPal here
>
> https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick_button_id=ZG94CTLHTKYRE
>
>
> Here is the current changelog for version 1.1.0
>
> !! Version 1.1.0 (ongoing)
>
> - Add `savePluginFolder` web socket message to save packaged plugins as 
> folders on a server. These plugins can then be available to other served 
> wikis and in the plugin library, if it is enabled.
> - Add the `import` browser message handler to make fetching nicer
> - Add options for how to handle conflicts for `internalFetch`
> - `internalFetch` now displays a list of imported tiddlers
> - Added a way to change which plugins a wiki uses from inside the wiki
>- In the Bob Settings tab there is a Manage Plugins tab
> - Added an interface to save plugins to the server and to select which 
> plugins from the server should be used in the current wiki
> - Change the internals to make one $tw.Wiki object for each wiki instead 
> of having them all in $tw.wiki
>- There are lots of internal changes to make this work
>- $tw.boot.files still uses the prefixed name
> - Streamlined and simplified the file system monitor
>- It should now watch new subfolders inside the tiddlers folder
> - Environment variables are now set from the plugin, themes, and languages 
> paths given in the settings.
>- This is 

[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

So far no luck getting images to serve. But there wasn't an existing 
filePathRoot entry, so perhaps I am setting it up wrong? 

-- Mark

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Additional note. It's possible for the local network address listed at the 
top to be different from the actual port number used by the wsserver at the 
bottom of the configuration (mine is 8081 at the top and 8082 in wsserver).

-- Mark

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 12:38:13 AM UTC-7, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> It looks like I somehow broke the part that removes the filesystem and 
> tiddlyweb plugins from served wikis. It looks like all of the errors you 
> are getting are caused by that. Until I get that fixed one solution is to 
> remove the tiddlyweb and filesystem plugins from the tiddlywiki.info 
> file. I will try and fix that later today.
>
> The configuration.md file shows where each configuration property goes and 
> has a brief description of each one. 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Configuration.md
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

Mark,

It looks like I somehow broke the part that removes the filesystem and 
tiddlyweb plugins from served wikis. It looks like all of the errors you 
are getting are caused by that. Until I get that fixed one solution is to 
remove the tiddlyweb and filesystem plugins from the tiddlywiki.info file. 
I will try and fix that later today.

The configuration.md file shows where each configuration property goes and 
has a brief description of each one. 
https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Configuration.md

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Trying it out in Linux, Ubuntu 18.04. FF 62.0.3. Bob Plugin 1.1.0.

When attempting to attach to existing TW, I get a series of 404 errors:


syncer-browser-tiddlyweb - 15:31:55 23 10 2018 

XMLHttpRequest  error code: 
404

syncer-browser-tiddlyweb - 15:31:56 23 10 2018 

Sync error while processing '$:/StoryList 
':
XMLHttpRequest  error code: 
404

syncer-browser-tiddlyweb - 15:31:56 23 10 2018 

Sync error while processing '$:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/Unsent 
':
XMLHttpRequest  error code: 
404

Here's the messages in the browser console: 

Error: WebExtension context not found! ExtensionParent.jsm:1014:13
we are insidehttp://127.0.0.1:8081/Recipes logsimple.js:15:3
Error: Could not establish connection. Receiving end does not exist. Browser
.js:3:1937
moz-extension://3175b0c3-efc9-4241-8dff-066790403f8d/background.html: 
chrome tabs query did not return a result while changing window focus

Log.js:3:3828
TiddlyWebAdaptor: Getting status $:/core/modules/utils/logger.js:33:10
Logging system initialised at Tue Oct 23 2018 15:31:55 GMT-0700 (PDT) common
.js:206:17
syncer-browser-tiddlyweb: XMLHttpRequest error code: 404 $:/core/modules/
utils/logger.js:33:10
Opened socket $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/BrowserWebSocketsSetup.js:77:7
[Show/hide message details.] tempTab is undefined background.js:662
XML Parsing Error: no root element found
Location: http://127.0.0.1:8081/status
Line Number 1, Column 1: status:1:1
XML Parsing Error: no root element found
Location: http://127.0.0.1:8081/Recipes
Line Number 1, Column 1: Recipes:1:1
syncer-browser-tiddlyweb: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/StoryList $:/core/
modules/utils/logger.js:33:10
syncer-browser-tiddlyweb: Sync error while processing '$:/StoryList':
XMLHttpRequest error code: 404 $:/core/modules/utils/logger.js:33:10
syncer-browser-tiddlyweb: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/
Unsent $:/core/modules/utils/logger.js:33:10
XML Parsing Error: no root element found
Location: http:
//127.0.0.1:8081/recipes/undefined/tiddlers/%24%3A%2FStoryList
Line Number 1, Column 1: $:/StoryList:1:1
syncer-browser-tiddlyweb: Sync error while processing '$:/plugins/OokTech/
Bob/Unsent':
XMLHttpRequest error code: 404 $:/core/modules/utils/logger.js:33:10
XML Parsing Error: no root element found
Location: 
http://127.0.0.1:8081/recipes/undefined/tiddlers/%24%3A%2Fplugins%2FOokTech%2FBob%2FUnsent
Line Number 1, Column 1: $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/Unsent:1:1

The file actually serves -- but with constant stream of yellow popup error 
messages.

Got the same errors when using TW's made by TiddlyDesktop.

Other comments. 

Couldn't find a "filepathroot" setting, so assume we have to add it 
manually under "manual" ??

Thanks!
-- Mark

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I'm getting the point that...

 *Jed Carty Rules My Software*.

One can hardly keep up with your rate of innovation! :-)

Josiah

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

My first thought is that my UI isn't very good. If I remember correctly the 
list in the dropdown only shows plugins that are in the wiki but aren't 
listed as being on the server but doesn't check the versions. So I believe 
that your initial assessment is correct. I made it so that the part that 
sends the plugins to the server checks version numbers but I probably 
didn't put that on the UI component.

So it is an oversight on my part. Until I get around to finding a way to 
fix that you could manually send the updated plugin to the server by making 
a copy of the button that has the plugin explicitly listed.

The button code would be something like this (changed the plugin name to 
match):

<$button> Save Plugin to Server
<$action-websocketmessage $type='savePluginFolder' 
pluginName='$:/plugins/Your/Plugin'/>


there may be another bug in how the plugins are saved, if you remove a file 
from the plugin it may not be properly removed on the server. So back up 
your data!

I need to find out how to solve that in a way that doesn't make it easy to 
accidentally delete plugins from the server.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Matthew Lauber]

Ok, so how I'm using Bob is that in the root wiki I'm making all my changes 
to my plugin via tinka, and then I'm using Bob's plugin saving feature to 
share it with all my other wikis.  So, steps to reproduce.

1) Import a plugin into the root wiki for the first time.
2) Save it using the "Manage Plugins" section of Bob Settings.  (It shows 
up in the drop down next to Save Plugin as Folder)
3) Import it to other wikis as needed via the "Manage Plugins" section of 
Bob Settings in the other wikis.  
4) Update the plugin in the Root wiki, and repackage via tinka with a 
different/higher version number.  
5) ??? The plugin does not show up in the drop down box of "Manage Plugins" 
and my other wikis are not showing the changes I made to the plugin.  

Other information that may be useful. I imported the plugin in the root 
wiki, but I'm not selecting it in the "Save Plugin Selection" of the root 
wiki.

If there's anything else I can add to help, let me know.  

Thanks, Matt


On Thursday, October 18, 2018 at 5:11:31 AM UTC-4, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> I think I need more information because I am not sure what you are 
> referring to here.
>
> If you are trying to save a plugin to the server as part of the plugin 
> server should check the plugin version number and if the plugin you are 
> trying to save exists on the server with a newer version than it won't save 
> it, but never plugin versions should save fine.
>
> I suspect that you imported the plugin into your wiki using drag and drop 
> and then didn't delete the plugin tiddler after saving it to the server. 
> Plugin tiddlers in your wiki always override plugins listed in 
> tiddlywiki.info.
>
> If that is not the case than I need more information before I can say 
> anything useful.
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Jed Carty]

I think I need more information because I am not sure what you are 
referring to here.

If you are trying to save a plugin to the server as part of the plugin 
server should check the plugin version number and if the plugin you are 
trying to save exists on the server with a newer version than it won't save 
it, but never plugin versions should save fine.

I suspect that you imported the plugin into your wiki using drag and drop 
and then didn't delete the plugin tiddler after saving it to the server. 
Plugin tiddlers in your wiki always override plugins listed in 
tiddlywiki.info.

If that is not the case than I need more information before I can say 
anything useful.

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Bob and BobEXE version 1.1.0 Actually Garlic Bagels prerelease

[Matthew Lauber]

One issue I noticed.  The UI for saving plugins doesn't allow you to save 
updated versions of plugins.  I've a few plugins I regularly update, but 
after I added them to the Bob library once, I couldn't update them again.  
Is there a reason why adding a plugin twice would result in problems, or is 
it just for the UI convience that things already added are removed from the 
list?  Would it be possible to compare version numbers and allow updating 
plugins based on differing numbers?

~Matt

On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 12:03:32 PM UTC-4, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> I ended up doing some things on the back-end of Bob that would break 
> backwards compatibility if anyone modified the server components of Bob. I 
> am not aware of anyone who has but this gets a minor version bump anyway. I 
> never got through testing version 1.0.7 before getting distracted so those 
> changes got rolled into this.
>
> This is a prerelease for now because there have been a lot of changes and 
> while I am not aware of any new bugs from them, there may be some I have 
> missed. As always, back up your wikis!! The easiest way is to just make an 
> archive of your Wikis folder and the IndexWiki.
>
> The big changes from the perspective of using Bob are:
> - you can now build html wikis that take tiddlers from any of the wikis 
> served by Bob instead of just building an html version of an existing wiki.
> - You can select which plugins from the server should be used in the 
> current wiki
> - Custom tiddler paths using $:/config/FileSystemPaths should work now
>
> The plugin version of Bob is on GitHub here: 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob
> The newest version of BobEXE is available here: 
> https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-BobEXE/releases
>
> If you want to support the development OokTech has a patreon page here
> https://www.patreon.com/OokTech
> or if you prefer there  is a link for PayPal here
>
> https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick_button_id=ZG94CTLHTKYRE
>
>
> Here is the current changelog for version 1.1.0
>
> !! Version 1.1.0 (ongoing)
>
> - Add `savePluginFolder` web socket message to save packaged plugins as 
> folders on a server. These plugins can then be available to other served 
> wikis and in the plugin library, if it is enabled.
> - Add the `import` browser message handler to make fetching nicer
> - Add options for how to handle conflicts for `internalFetch`
> - `internalFetch` now displays a list of imported tiddlers
> - Added a way to change which plugins a wiki uses from inside the wiki
>- In the Bob Settings tab there is a Manage Plugins tab
> - Added an interface to save plugins to the server and to select which 
> plugins from the server should be used in the current wiki
> - Change the internals to make one $tw.Wiki object for each wiki instead 
> of having them all in $tw.wiki
>- There are lots of internal changes to make this work
>- $tw.boot.files still uses the prefixed name
> - Streamlined and simplified the file system monitor
>- It should now watch new subfolders inside the tiddlers folder
> - Environment variables are now set from the plugin, themes, and languages 
> paths given in the settings.
>- This is needed by the core to properly list available plugins
>- This means that you can set the location of one folder listing 
> plugins, themes and languages in the settings instead of using 
> environment variables. At the moment this is limited to one folder.
> - The `unloadWiki` message now ensures that the connection to any browsers 
> with that wiki open are closed correctly.
> - Updates to the `buildHTMLWiki` message
>- You can now pull tiddlers in from any served wiki while making an 
> html file. This means you can combine wikis in the output.
>- There is a default filter for excluding plugins like Bob and 
> components that are only useful on a server
>- You can add an additional filter to exclude tiddlers from the 
> exported html wiki
>- You can disable the default exclude list for more control
> - The `$:/config/FileSystemPaths` settings should work now
>
>

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