Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Arlen Beiler]

No, the TiddlyFox saver is incredibly useful and is probably here to stay,
given that the actual space it takes is very small. The only thing it
requires is that the host has access to the page DOM, which can be
accomplished several ways and has some very good use cases. I'm not Jeremy,
but I do have reasons I want to see it stay, and I doubt I am the only one.

So, in short, to maintain backward compatibility, and because it still has
plenty of use cases, I don't think it will be taken out.

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Kevin Kleinfelter <
kleinfelter.gro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Suppose I decide to retain an old Firefox, just to run Tiddlyfox.
> Tiddlywiki has code to save data to the local HTML file via Tiddlyfox.  Is
> the plan for TW5 to retain that code for a long time, or is the plan to
> retire that code shortly after Firefox makes TiddlyFox obsolete?
>
> i.e. If I continue to use TW5 with my obsolete Firefox, will I have to be
> careful not to update core TW5 to a version which breaks local auto-save?
>
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 10:39:58 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> You can still use the default save, which saves as a download.  I don't
>> think that this ability was available in the original TWC. So you can still
>> have your guerrilla wiki, though it takes a little more thought. Just keep
>> clicking save whenever you need to save. When you need to start a new
>> session, just find the last save in the downloads list. As a bonus, there
>> is automatically a trail of backups.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure (it's been a long time) that the original TWC always
>> needed a little bit of java code and a running JRE. It certainly did when I
>> first started using it. So you're memories of the good old days may be a
>> little bit gilded.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 6:51:48 PM UTC-7, Kevin Kleinfelter
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> One of my main use-cases for Tiddlywiki is to capture my configuration
>>> when I build/rebuild a machine.  In the old days, on a fresh OS, I could
>>>
>>>- login
>>>- download from tiddlywiki.com
>>>- And begin capturing my config
>>>
>>> Or I could copy my existing TW knowledge base from a backup, and capture
>>> my config there.  The key thing is that I really didn't have to install
>>> stuff in order to start capturing.  My knowledge base was just *there*.
>>>
>>> Then the browsers decided to get more secure. After a while, it reached
>>> the point where I had to install Firefox and a plugin.  Not quite a
>>> zero-setup, but at least they were both packaged installs where I could
>>> just accept the default options.
>>>
>>> Now, I have to install node.js (where I can take the defaults on a
>>> packaged install), use npm to install tiddlywiki (and work out why it is
>>> giving me a "npm WARN enoent ENOENT: no such file or directory" error),
>>> then look up the commands to init a TW, then set up a Windows service or a
>>> Linux daemon to run node in the background, and *then* I can start using TW.
>>>
>>> Also in the old day, I could use TW on a fully locked-down
>>> corporate-controlled PC where software cannot be installed.  I brought it
>>> in as a guerrilla wiki.  I successfully defend its use as "it's just a web
>>> page -- you don't want to forbid people to save web pages to disk do you?"
>>>
>>> Yeah, a reasonably technical person *can* set up a node.js TW, and a
>>> flexible person who's not in a hurry and doesn't mind "friction" can make
>>> the download-and-replace-old-html-file process work.  But honestly, TW5
>>> doesn't have the same appeal that TWC had.  It is significantly more
>>> complex to setup and operate.  I'm probably going to migrate from TWC to
>>> TW5 because I can't find a one-click-install wiki that supports text and
>>> image and stores each page in a separate file and can (mostly) import TWC
>>> data.
>>>
>>> Its a wonderful creation if you want to putz with your wiki.  If you
>>> just want to start capturing your data in a text+data wiki, it has lost its
>>> original simplicity.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Kevin Kleinfelter]

Suppose I decide to retain an old Firefox, just to run Tiddlyfox. 
 Tiddlywiki has code to save data to the local HTML file via Tiddlyfox.  Is 
the plan for TW5 to retain that code for a long time, or is the plan to 
retire that code shortly after Firefox makes TiddlyFox obsolete?

i.e. If I continue to use TW5 with my obsolete Firefox, will I have to be 
careful not to update core TW5 to a version which breaks local auto-save?

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 10:39:58 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> You can still use the default save, which saves as a download.  I don't 
> think that this ability was available in the original TWC. So you can still 
> have your guerrilla wiki, though it takes a little more thought. Just keep 
> clicking save whenever you need to save. When you need to start a new 
> session, just find the last save in the downloads list. As a bonus, there 
> is automatically a trail of backups. 
>
> I'm pretty sure (it's been a long time) that the original TWC always 
> needed a little bit of java code and a running JRE. It certainly did when I 
> first started using it. So you're memories of the good old days may be a 
> little bit gilded. 
>
> Mark.
>
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 6:51:48 PM UTC-7, Kevin Kleinfelter 
> wrote:
>>
>> One of my main use-cases for Tiddlywiki is to capture my configuration 
>> when I build/rebuild a machine.  In the old days, on a fresh OS, I could
>>
>>- login
>>- download from tiddlywiki.com
>>- And begin capturing my config
>>
>> Or I could copy my existing TW knowledge base from a backup, and capture 
>> my config there.  The key thing is that I really didn't have to install 
>> stuff in order to start capturing.  My knowledge base was just *there*.
>>
>> Then the browsers decided to get more secure. After a while, it reached 
>> the point where I had to install Firefox and a plugin.  Not quite a 
>> zero-setup, but at least they were both packaged installs where I could 
>> just accept the default options.
>>
>> Now, I have to install node.js (where I can take the defaults on a 
>> packaged install), use npm to install tiddlywiki (and work out why it is 
>> giving me a "npm WARN enoent ENOENT: no such file or directory" error), 
>> then look up the commands to init a TW, then set up a Windows service or a 
>> Linux daemon to run node in the background, and *then* I can start using TW.
>>
>> Also in the old day, I could use TW on a fully locked-down 
>> corporate-controlled PC where software cannot be installed.  I brought it 
>> in as a guerrilla wiki.  I successfully defend its use as "it's just a web 
>> page -- you don't want to forbid people to save web pages to disk do you?"
>>
>> Yeah, a reasonably technical person *can* set up a node.js TW, and a 
>> flexible person who's not in a hurry and doesn't mind "friction" can make 
>> the download-and-replace-old-html-file process work.  But honestly, TW5 
>> doesn't have the same appeal that TWC had.  It is significantly more 
>> complex to setup and operate.  I'm probably going to migrate from TWC to 
>> TW5 because I can't find a one-click-install wiki that supports text and 
>> image and stores each page in a separate file and can (mostly) import TWC 
>> data.
>>
>> Its a wonderful creation if you want to putz with your wiki.  If you just 
>> want to start capturing your data in a text+data wiki, it has lost its 
>> original simplicity.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

You can still use the default save, which saves as a download.  I don't 
think that this ability was available in the original TWC. So you can still 
have your guerrilla wiki, though it takes a little more thought. Just keep 
clicking save whenever you need to save. When you need to start a new 
session, just find the last save in the downloads list. As a bonus, there 
is automatically a trail of backups. 

I'm pretty sure (it's been a long time) that the original TWC always needed 
a little bit of java code and a running JRE. It certainly did when I first 
started using it. So you're memories of the good old days may be a little 
bit gilded. 

Mark.

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 6:51:48 PM UTC-7, Kevin Kleinfelter 
wrote:
>
> One of my main use-cases for Tiddlywiki is to capture my configuration 
> when I build/rebuild a machine.  In the old days, on a fresh OS, I could
>
>- login
>- download from tiddlywiki.com
>- And begin capturing my config
>
> Or I could copy my existing TW knowledge base from a backup, and capture 
> my config there.  The key thing is that I really didn't have to install 
> stuff in order to start capturing.  My knowledge base was just *there*.
>
> Then the browsers decided to get more secure. After a while, it reached 
> the point where I had to install Firefox and a plugin.  Not quite a 
> zero-setup, but at least they were both packaged installs where I could 
> just accept the default options.
>
> Now, I have to install node.js (where I can take the defaults on a 
> packaged install), use npm to install tiddlywiki (and work out why it is 
> giving me a "npm WARN enoent ENOENT: no such file or directory" error), 
> then look up the commands to init a TW, then set up a Windows service or a 
> Linux daemon to run node in the background, and *then* I can start using TW.
>
> Also in the old day, I could use TW on a fully locked-down 
> corporate-controlled PC where software cannot be installed.  I brought it 
> in as a guerrilla wiki.  I successfully defend its use as "it's just a web 
> page -- you don't want to forbid people to save web pages to disk do you?"
>
> Yeah, a reasonably technical person *can* set up a node.js TW, and a 
> flexible person who's not in a hurry and doesn't mind "friction" can make 
> the download-and-replace-old-html-file process work.  But honestly, TW5 
> doesn't have the same appeal that TWC had.  It is significantly more 
> complex to setup and operate.  I'm probably going to migrate from TWC to 
> TW5 because I can't find a one-click-install wiki that supports text and 
> image and stores each page in a separate file and can (mostly) import TWC 
> data.
>
> Its a wonderful creation if you want to putz with your wiki.  If you just 
> want to start capturing your data in a text+data wiki, it has lost its 
> original simplicity.
>
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Kevin Kleinfelter]

One of my main use-cases for Tiddlywiki is to capture my configuration when 
I build/rebuild a machine.  In the old days, on a fresh OS, I could

   - login
   - download from tiddlywiki.com
   - And begin capturing my config

Or I could copy my existing TW knowledge base from a backup, and capture my 
config there.  The key thing is that I really didn't have to install stuff 
in order to start capturing.  My knowledge base was just *there*.

Then the browsers decided to get more secure. After a while, it reached the 
point where I had to install Firefox and a plugin.  Not quite a zero-setup, 
but at least they were both packaged installs where I could just accept the 
default options.

Now, I have to install node.js (where I can take the defaults on a packaged 
install), use npm to install tiddlywiki (and work out why it is giving me a 
"npm WARN enoent ENOENT: no such file or directory" error), then look up 
the commands to init a TW, then set up a Windows service or a Linux daemon 
to run node in the background, and *then* I can start using TW.

Also in the old day, I could use TW on a fully locked-down 
corporate-controlled PC where software cannot be installed.  I brought it 
in as a guerrilla wiki.  I successfully defend its use as "it's just a web 
page -- you don't want to forbid people to save web pages to disk do you?"

Yeah, a reasonably technical person *can* set up a node.js TW, and a 
flexible person who's not in a hurry and doesn't mind "friction" can make 
the download-and-replace-old-html-file process work.  But honestly, TW5 
doesn't have the same appeal that TWC had.  It is significantly more 
complex to setup and operate.  I'm probably going to migrate from TWC to 
TW5 because I can't find a one-click-install wiki that supports text and 
image and stores each page in a separate file and can (mostly) import TWC 
data.

Its a wonderful creation if you want to putz with your wiki.  If you just 
want to start capturing your data in a text+data wiki, it has lost its 
original simplicity.


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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

RichardWilliamSmith wrote:
>
> As a more practical matter, do you think it will be possible to update the 
> main site before Firefox 57? I think it would be best for us (you) to have 
> a clear message on the front page about the change to previous behaviour. 
>

Advice about usage on TiddlyFox should be available already on an ongoing 
basis. A lot of TW users are semi-geeks that may hit 57 before sensible 
normal users (on 55 if they at the edge)--even they gonna complain. My post 
about ESR covered it. I got tired of pointing back to it, even though it's 
a really good summary of the situation through to next spring. Everything 
is so fragmentary here. Every Darwinian idiot for themselves, I guess. But 
WHY IS THERE NO PINNED THREAD about this? Why offload this issue onto 
@Jermolene? Shirley, it could be handled here in GG? 

Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[RichardWilliamSmith]

Hi Jeremy,

Beaker Browser is very interesting and will probably be the locus of lots 
of interesting, geeky experiments but it's not the solution we need as a 
community.

As a more practical matter, do you think it will be possible to update the 
main site before Firefox 57? I think it would be best for us (you) to have 
a clear message on the front page about the change to previous behaviour. 

There will be some users who have been party to none of our discussions who 
find themselves 'locked out' of Tiddlyfox sometime before the end of 
November. The simplest stop-gap solution is for them to switch to Firefox 
ESR (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/all/) which should 
last for another six months or so while the wider community figures out 
what can be done about extensions.

There is a pretty good chance that someone will try to fork Firefox and 
keep the plugin mechanism alive for a while. In the meantime, as this 
discussion shows, we have a plethora of options to develop.

Regards,
Richard

PS: "...easy enough for an old lady like myself to use. Tiddlyserver is 
happily running on my Windows computer, but I have had absolutely no luck 
on my linux laptop" - Riz. Just wanted to point out that 'non-technical old 
ladies' don't generally own Linux laptops! :-)

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:20:20 AM UTC+10, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Thanks for the interesting discussion. I’d just like to throw in that 
> Beaker Browser actually makes a pretty good substitute for 
> Firefox+TiddlyFox: https://beakerbrowser.com 
>
> The confusing thing is that Beaker’s raison d’être that you’ll read about 
> on their site is all about sharing data between users via a peer-to-peer 
> protocol akin to BitTorrent. However, one doesn’t need to use any of those 
> features in order to use Beaker for working with entirely private 
> TiddlyWiki’s.
>
> You’ll need to use the latest prerelease of 5.1.15; I’ve just updated the 
> instructions:
>
>
> http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#GettingStarted%20-%20Beaker%20Browser:%5B%5BBeaker%20Browser%5D%5D%20%5B%5BGettingStarted%20-%20Beaker%20Browser%5D%5D
>  
> 
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
> On 20 Sep 2017, at 17:14, @TiddlyTweeter  > wrote:
>
> Birthe C wrote:
>>
>> I for one was were happy to read that you considered a solution that was 
>> easy enough for an old lady like myself to use.
>>
>
> ??? Are you April Mackenzie ??? 
>
> @TiddlyTweeter
>
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>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

There is NO Windows version of the Beaker Browser.

That is a major downside.



Its been "coming soon" for a very long time. We are not all Mac users.

Best wishes
Josiah 

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

(1) Please post you PAYPAL link regularly here. Otherwise people here won't 
understand you need support. 

(2) Arlen Beiler wrote: I didn't write TiddlyServer for geeks :)

Right. At the moment there are quite a few TiddlyDesktop users who really 
should convert to TiddlyServer. I don't think that many people grasp that 
TiddlyServer can replace TiddlyDesktop easily.

TiddlyServer---after your help---I found quite easy to use. It is looking 
like THE WAY AHEAD when TiddlyFox dies ... BUT I think it needs better 
documentation IF people don't have your direct help.

Best wishes
Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Arlen Beiler]

I didn't write TiddlyServer for geeks :)

I just haven't gotten around to making it dead simple yet.

Ok, I actually just wrote it as a static file server wrapper around Node
TW5. Future versions will probably have more features.

I don't really want to bundle Node since it is already so simple to
install. If I did bundle Node I would still have to provide the same 10 or
so options that https://www.nodejs.org/ gives you. And I guarantee it won't
look as pretty or work as well :) This way I can give you one download that
will work on every platform.

Arlen

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Riz  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>>
>>> Tiddlywiki is really mostly for 'geeks' at the end of the day :-).

>>>
>>> Well, I disagree, but as it won't add anything to the main point of
>>> discussion, I am not elaborating on that.
>>>
>>>
>> It relates to the conversation  in terms of the question: How much
>> technical interest can we expect TW users to have?
>>
>> Name one non-geeky reason someone would choose TW over evernote,
>> one-note, note-pad, or word. ;-)
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>
>
> ?!! How many cross-platform portable note taking apllications are there?
> Amongst them how many enables you to categorise your notes? In the slant
> poll for the best cross platform note taking apllications available in
> 2017, Tiddlywiki stands 9th. Wonder how many of the 8 above works in linux
> and android, and will allow user to work offline? Zero. I do not what where
> is the line drawn between geeky reasons and non geeky reasons, but assuming
> none of these are concerns of "non-geeky" users are, I don't know, a leap?
>
>
> Plus, how is this even a confrontational issue? If the consensus of the
> group is that we are only expecting technical users and not common-folk to
> use TW5, then this whole discussion is moot. A simpler graphical solution
> will help even the technical geniuses I guess.
>
>
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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Which users are hitting problems? I'm only 1 rev behind (my general 
philosophy) and TiddlyFox is working fine. At what rev will TF break for 
sure? All this hype made me work on the batch solution. Then I updated and 
found that I didn't need it -- yet.

I see lots of debate on solutions. If solutions are clear enough to 
document, then consider submitting them to GitHub. Or putting up a thread 
that documents the solutions succinctly (preferably as .tid files) so the 
text can be grabbed by someone like me and put into a PR.  For myself, I 
don't want to go through the trouble of documenting something and then 
finding it has to be completely rewritten 2 days later because the solution 
was still in work.

Mark


On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 8:08:52 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> The thing you miss is NOW. A lot of users of Firefox ARE (A) hitting 
> problems already and (B) the solutions are CLEAR already.
>
> And (C) the solutions are NOT so well documented yet for TiddlyWiki.
>
> Josiah x 
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:48:13 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> To use your expression, why get into combobulations for something that's 
>> not a problem yet?
>>
>> Why would anyone expect documentation for something that (A) isn't a 
>> problem and (B) has no well-defined solutions?
>>
>> That doesn't mean the group shouldn't be thinking about it, of course.
>>
>> Once solutions are figured out, Jeremy won't have to worry about 
>> documentation (other than approving it). I'm sure one or more of us will 
>> step up to the plate.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 7:42:31 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ciao Mark S.
>>>
>>> You hit exactly the Catch-22.
>>>
>>> Mark S. Beginning to happen? Where? 

>>>
>>> Its OBVIOUS that Firefox 57 will cause grief. 
>>>
>>> Tiddlywiki.com is NOT a medium for that updateness. @Jermolene is one 
>>> person and I am unhappy seeing EVERYTHING we don't deal with being dumped 
>>> on him. In any case its NOT updated that much.
>>>
>>> But, neither, it appears is ANYWHERE ELSE MAKING IT FOR NEWBIES.
>>>
>>> J, x
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

The thing you miss is NOW. A lot of users of Firefox ARE (A) hitting 
problems already and (B) the solutions are CLEAR already.

And (C) the solutions are NOT so well documented yet for TiddlyWiki.

Josiah x 





On Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:48:13 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> To use your expression, why get into combobulations for something that's 
> not a problem yet?
>
> Why would anyone expect documentation for something that (A) isn't a 
> problem and (B) has no well-defined solutions?
>
> That doesn't mean the group shouldn't be thinking about it, of course.
>
> Once solutions are figured out, Jeremy won't have to worry about 
> documentation (other than approving it). I'm sure one or more of us will 
> step up to the plate.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 7:42:31 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Mark S.
>>
>> You hit exactly the Catch-22.
>>
>> Mark S. Beginning to happen? Where? 
>>>
>>
>> Its OBVIOUS that Firefox 57 will cause grief. 
>>
>> Tiddlywiki.com is NOT a medium for that updateness. @Jermolene is one 
>> person and I am unhappy seeing EVERYTHING we don't deal with being dumped 
>> on him. In any case its NOT updated that much.
>>
>> But, neither, it appears is ANYWHERE ELSE MAKING IT FOR NEWBIES.
>>
>> J, x
>>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

GIVE Arlen money ... or are you a cheapskate that uses his stuff for 
nothing, forever?

Arlen Yes, I will continue to support TiddlyServer in my spare time. I 
> actually took off work at times to work on it, but now it is going to have 
> to be a spare time project unless maybe if people support it via PayPal.
>

His PayPal is here:  https://www.paypal.me/Arlen22

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

To use your expression, why get into combobulations for something that's 
not a problem yet?

Why would anyone expect documentation for something that (A) isn't a 
problem and (B) has no well-defined solutions?

That doesn't mean the group shouldn't be thinking about it, of course.

Once solutions are figured out, Jeremy won't have to worry about 
documentation (other than approving it). I'm sure one or more of us will 
step up to the plate.

Mark


On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 7:42:31 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> You hit exactly the Catch-22.
>
> Mark S. Beginning to happen? Where? 
>>
>
> Its OBVIOUS that Firefox 57 will cause grief. 
>
> Tiddlywiki.com is NOT a medium for that updateness. @Jermolene is one 
> person and I am unhappy seeing EVERYTHING we don't deal with being dumped 
> on him. In any case its NOT updated that much.
>
> But, neither, it appears is ANYWHERE ELSE MAKING IT FOR NEWBIES.
>
> J, x
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

You hit exactly the Catch-22.

Mark S. Beginning to happen? Where? 
>

Its OBVIOUS that Firefox 57 will cause grief. 

Tiddlywiki.com is NOT a medium for that updateness. @Jermolene is one 
person and I am unhappy seeing EVERYTHING we don't deal with being dumped 
on him. In any case its NOT updated that much.

But, neither, it appears is ANYWHERE ELSE MAKING IT FOR NEWBIES.

J, x

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 6:53:01 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Mark S.
>
> Mark S: ... TiddlyWiki.com. It has instructions for saving that work fine. 
>>
>
> NO it doesn't for what is beginning to happen now. 
>

Beginning to happen? Where? 

Hasn't happened yet. Solutions aren't developed yet.  Thus, no 
documentation yet.



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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

Mark S: ... TiddlyWiki.com. It has instructions for saving that work fine. 
>

NO it doesn't for what is beginning to happen now. 

My opinion of your opinion is its (a) loading up @Jermolene with too much 
work and (b) Tiddlywiki.com on stuff like this is nearly always out of 
date. Go look at it now in the context of this thread. 

Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

There is a central location. It's called TiddlyWiki.com. It has 
instructions for saving that work fine. It's just that you're anticipating 
a future problem. Clearly the crop of work-arounds for that future problem 
are still in discussion, so it would be superfluous (at last, after 30 
years I get to use that word! Thank Mrs. Hensley!) and confusing to post 
details on them while they're still in flux

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 3:29:57 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> This is OPINION.
>
> Its obvious we have MANY methods to save TW.
>
> Perhaps the single biggest issue is lack of a RESOURCE POINT that 
> DOCUMENTS in detail how to set them up. 
>
> The current situation is a good example, IMO, where lack of centralisation 
> makes its very difficult for newbies to: (a) understand the options; (b) 
> get clear procedural instructions on what to do even once they mastered 
> (a). 
>
> Even I have difficulty looking back over the Google Swamp finding the 
> needed threads.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Arlen Beiler]

>
> On the other end of debate is people who do not have the necessary admin
> privileges to install node js on their system. -- Riz


You can copy the node.exe file into the TiddlyServer (downloaded from the
releases page) or TiddlyWiki directory (downloaded from the main code page)
and then everything will basically work the same, except for any npm
commands.

As for how one actually does 'run a node server', I worry that we have
> over-dramatised it in previous discussions. It isn't difficult and doesn't
> require any special knowledge. You install Node like any other piece of
> software (https://nodejs.org) and you need to run half a dozen commands
> from the command line (they're given briefly at the start of my static
> sites tutorial here: https://www.didaxy.com/exporting-static-sites-from-
> tiddlywiki-part-1). I suppose if you haven't used the command line at
> all, it's a bit of a pain, but learning is good for you :-) -- Richard


Great point. Just thought I'd point out that this is for static sites, not
TiddlyServer. And you've made it really simple! A glance-over looks like
I've finally hit gold when it comes to static sites. TiddlyServer is even
simpler -- after installing Node, you just extract a zip file and edit
settings.json to your liking.

This is OPINION. Its obvious we have MANY methods to save TW. Perhaps the
> single biggest issue is lack of a RESOURCE POINT that DOCUMENTS in detail
> how to set them up.  -- Josiah


I share your opinion. So I created this page:
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/TiddlyWiki_Manual/Saving_Methods and added
Mark's script to it.

Arlen

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:54 AM, RichardWilliamSmith <
richardwilliamsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1. Consider packing it to deb/exe/whatever-mac-uses formats. The installer
>> should ideally place necessary shortcuts and menu entries in the
>> corresponding folder to each OS.
>>
>
> Excellent idea. I started researching how we might do that. My best guess
> so far is nexe: https://github.com/nexe/nexe
>
>
>> 2. The opening HTML is replaced by a TW itself. It should show links to
>> the various TW as it does now. In addition, that tiddlywiki should also
>> have a control panel, which would allow the user to new TW paths, and
>> modify settings. It won't be hard to cook up a button that will export
>> these settings to json format.
>>
>
> Terrible idea (no offence) - the current interface is nice and simple and
> wouldn't gain anything from being a Tiddlywiki itself. Controls for adding
> new paths and creating new tiddlywiki folders and single-file editions is a
> great idea though and I think Arlen already mentioned the possibility.
>
> As to your general point, I do agree that there are some people who may
> get value from Tiddlywiki but not know how to run a node server - having
> something that 'just works' is a worthwhile goal. But, let's be honest,
> Tiddlywiki is really mostly for 'geeks' at the end of the day :-). (imagine
> telling someone "oh, right, you've accidentally nested a list of all your
> notes inside a list of all your notes, so your 'wordprocessor' crashed.
> Just restart it and figure out a way to delete that note without opening
> it...") :-)
>
> As for how one actually does 'run a node server', I worry that we have
> over-dramatised it in previous discussions. It isn't difficult and doesn't
> require any special knowledge. You install Node like any other piece of
> software (https://nodejs.org) and you need to run half a dozen commands
> from the command line (they're given briefly at the start of my static
> sites tutorial here: https://www.didaxy.com/exporting-static-sites-from-
> tiddlywiki-part-1). I suppose if you haven't used the command line at
> all, it's a bit of a pain, but learning is good for you :-)
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> On the other end of debate is people who do not have the necessary admin
>> privileges to install node js on their system.
>>
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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

This is OPINION.

Its obvious we have MANY methods to save TW.

Perhaps the single biggest issue is lack of a RESOURCE POINT that DOCUMENTS 
in detail how to set them up. 

The current situation is a good example, IMO, where lack of centralisation 
makes its very difficult for newbies to: (a) understand the options; (b) 
get clear procedural instructions on what to do even once that mastered 
(a). Even I have difficult looking back over the Google Swamp finding the 
needed threads.

Best wishes
Josiah

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[JWHoneycutt]

@ Mark S

I remember simple batch files, and appreciate how this is not that 
different.  Except that this feels entirely different.
 

> Here's all that's needed to launch TW as an app.
>>>
>>> Put this script as a text file in your default download directory and 
>>> name as "launch_tw.ps1"
>>>
>>> param([string]$stem="foo", [string]$dir="")
>>> $copyme = ls $stem*.html | sort LastWriteTime | select -last 1
>>> $copyme = $copyme.FullName
>>> Copy-Item $copyme -Destination $dir\$stem.html
>>> Invoke-Item $dir\$stem.html
>>>
>>> For each TW you want to run, create a single line script. Here's an 
>>> example named tw_bible.bat:
>>>
>>> powershell -executionpolicy bypass -File .\launch_tw.ps1 -stem "bible" -dir 
>>> d:\data\apps\TW_Ant
>>>
>>> The "stem" name is the unique first part of the name (e.g. "bible" if 
>>> your tw is bible.html). The dir is the path to the directory where you want 
>>> to launch your TW from. If this is the first time using this system, copy 
>>> your most recent TW file to the download directory.
>>>
>>> Do a right click on the bat file and create a shortcut. Drag the 
>>> shortcut to your desktop.
>>>
>>> Now, whenever you want to launch your TW, just double-click on the 
>>> shortcut. Your default browser will come up with the TW in a tab.
>>>
>>> That's all there's to it. You launch your TW like you would any other 
>>> desktop app. Once it's loaded in your default browser, you can save with 
>>> the default mechanism, knowing the next time you want to run the tw you can 
>>> just click on the start-up icon. 
>>>
>>> None of this is harder to do than installing an executable and 
>>> configuring a server. The scripts are simple enough that they could be 
>>> typed out by hand if you were on a system cut off from the net.  
>>>
>>
I am hoping that IF a batch file is necessary (and easy) it autodetects the 
operating system, autoloads and autosaves.  Basically don't require me to 
know anything about it.  If I need to establish this batch file for each 
unique system and file, it's analogous to the difference between using an 
iphone and jailbreaking an iphone - not that hard (assuming you know what 
you are doing, and chose the right method, and don't upgrade, and ...)

My Mother can use an iphone, but I don't trust myself to jailbreak one 
(after a steep learning curve).

BTW, Does anybody actually USE TW5.html on their ipad or iphone? How?

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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[RichardWilliamSmith]

Tiddlyserver is great. Thanks very much for the work you've done on it. 
It's worked flawlessly for me so far.

In my opinion, the 'default' saving mechanism is badly flawed to the extent 
that there is no auto-save. That's enough to stop me from using it.

At the moment, I do all my writing in Tiddlywiki but if I had to rely on my 
stupid brain remembering to save my work all the time (like in the bad old 
days) I think I would have to switch to generating content in a 
wordprocessor and flipping it across into TW, it's that important.

Although the bloat on electron apps is indeed comical, I may nevertheless 
have a 'play' and see if I can make it work as an electron app. I'm also 
exploring how I might make a raspberry pi image available for people to use 
(the 'obvious' way is to seed a torrent of it somewhere, perhaps also on my 
raspberry pi!)


On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 5:26:53 AM UTC+10, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>
> My bad, I see I misunderstood you. Yes, I think having many options 
> available to us is a good thing.
>
> TiddlyServer will serve any file in any directory it is told to serve. 
> Whether or not it will have the correct content-type header is another 
> matter, but if it doesn't, please feel free to open an issue on Github. 
>
> Also, would relative links work for you? It would seem like that would be 
> supported by both, regardless of protocol, etc. It depends on your file 
> layout, but as you said you could change them, which seems to indicate that 
> relative links should work fine. 
>
> Yes, I will continue to support TiddlyServer in my spare time. I actually 
> took off work at times to work on it, but now it is going to have to be a 
> spare time project unless maybe if people support it via PayPal. 
> TiddlyServer has stabilized now so it is a lot less work to maintain.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy!
> Arlen
>
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:17 PM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
> tiddl...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> I didn't say setting up TiddlyServer was so hard. I said that setting up 
>> a batch file is no harder than setting up a server. 
>>
>> Multiple options is always a good thing. I'm trying to point out that 
>> there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the default save mechanism. Each 
>> approach is likely to have some sort of drawback. For instance, when I'm 
>> running TiddlyServer my external links to local files no longer work. I 
>> could change them to use the server system path, but then they wouldn't 
>> work when I moved them to a device. TiddlyServer won't run on my aging 
>> Android (Termux isn't available until KitKit) so I would need 2 different 
>> links for the 2 different ways of working.
>>
>> Also, TiddlyServer doesn't serve up MHT files. I realize that most people 
>> don't know about MHT, which is a shame. Once you've started using MHT 
>> files, you realize that this one of the most convenient ways to capture web 
>> pages. Of course, it might be the end of the road for MHT when FF57 comes 
>> out -- no way to know for sure until it happens. Pardon me if this already 
>> exists, but it would be nice if there was a way to tell TS to go ahead and 
>> serve up files of a particular extension. Then it will be up to the user to 
>> know if their browser or set up can handle that particular file type.
>>
>> One of my other concerns is that I wasn't sure based on your prior 
>> comments whether you were going to continue to support TS, or if you were 
>> going to direct your attentions to a commercial product.
>>
>> Anyways. TiddlyServer is a very nice setup. It might even be the one I 
>> eventually go with. But I don't think people should overlook the default 
>> save mechanism just because it isn't convenient out of the box.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Mark
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 8:35:45 AM UTC-7, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mark, 
>>> I'm wondering why you think TiddlyServer is hard to set up. I'm curious 
>>> if you've tried it yet, and if you have, I would be happy to answer any 
>>> questions you have and/or walk you through the setup, since it will help me 
>>> know how to write the documentation. How can I help you use TiddlyServer to 
>>> accomplish what you need?
>>>
>>> Always good to explore other options though.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Arlen
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 I forget that a lot of people find script files something mysterious. 
 In the early days before the registry, everyone using a computer had to 
 know about bat files when doing software installs. 

 Here's all that's needed to launch TW as an app.

 Put this script as a text file in your default download directory and 
 name as "launch_tw.ps1"

 param([string]$stem="foo", [string]$dir="")
 $copyme = ls $stem*.html | sort LastWriteTime | select -last 1
 $copyme = $copyme.FullName
 Copy-Item $copyme -Destination 

Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Arlen Beiler]

My bad, I see I misunderstood you. Yes, I think having many options
available to us is a good thing.

TiddlyServer will serve any file in any directory it is told to serve.
Whether or not it will have the correct content-type header is another
matter, but if it doesn't, please feel free to open an issue on Github.

Also, would relative links work for you? It would seem like that would be
supported by both, regardless of protocol, etc. It depends on your file
layout, but as you said you could change them, which seems to indicate that
relative links should work fine.

Yes, I will continue to support TiddlyServer in my spare time. I actually
took off work at times to work on it, but now it is going to have to be a
spare time project unless maybe if people support it via PayPal.
TiddlyServer has stabilized now so it is a lot less work to maintain.

Thanks for your thoughts. Enjoy!
Arlen

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:17 PM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I didn't say setting up TiddlyServer was so hard. I said that setting up a
> batch file is no harder than setting up a server.
>
> Multiple options is always a good thing. I'm trying to point out that
> there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the default save mechanism. Each
> approach is likely to have some sort of drawback. For instance, when I'm
> running TiddlyServer my external links to local files no longer work. I
> could change them to use the server system path, but then they wouldn't
> work when I moved them to a device. TiddlyServer won't run on my aging
> Android (Termux isn't available until KitKit) so I would need 2 different
> links for the 2 different ways of working.
>
> Also, TiddlyServer doesn't serve up MHT files. I realize that most people
> don't know about MHT, which is a shame. Once you've started using MHT
> files, you realize that this one of the most convenient ways to capture web
> pages. Of course, it might be the end of the road for MHT when FF57 comes
> out -- no way to know for sure until it happens. Pardon me if this already
> exists, but it would be nice if there was a way to tell TS to go ahead and
> serve up files of a particular extension. Then it will be up to the user to
> know if their browser or set up can handle that particular file type.
>
> One of my other concerns is that I wasn't sure based on your prior
> comments whether you were going to continue to support TS, or if you were
> going to direct your attentions to a commercial product.
>
> Anyways. TiddlyServer is a very nice setup. It might even be the one I
> eventually go with. But I don't think people should overlook the default
> save mechanism just because it isn't convenient out of the box.
>
> Thanks!
> Mark
>
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 8:35:45 AM UTC-7, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>> I'm wondering why you think TiddlyServer is hard to set up. I'm curious
>> if you've tried it yet, and if you have, I would be happy to answer any
>> questions you have and/or walk you through the setup, since it will help me
>> know how to write the documentation. How can I help you use TiddlyServer to
>> accomplish what you need?
>>
>> Always good to explore other options though.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Arlen
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I forget that a lot of people find script files something mysterious. In
>>> the early days before the registry, everyone using a computer had to know
>>> about bat files when doing software installs.
>>>
>>> Here's all that's needed to launch TW as an app.
>>>
>>> Put this script as a text file in your default download directory and
>>> name as "launch_tw.ps1"
>>>
>>> param([string]$stem="foo", [string]$dir="")
>>> $copyme = ls $stem*.html | sort LastWriteTime | select -last 1
>>> $copyme = $copyme.FullName
>>> Copy-Item $copyme -Destination $dir\$stem.html
>>> Invoke-Item $dir\$stem.html
>>>
>>> For each TW you want to run, create a single line script. Here's an
>>> example named tw_bible.bat:
>>>
>>> powershell -executionpolicy bypass -File .\launch_tw.ps1 -stem "bible" -dir
>>> d:\data\apps\TW_Ant
>>>
>>> The "stem" name is the unique first part of the name (e.g. "bible" if
>>> your tw is bible.html). The dir is the path to the directory where you want
>>> to launch your TW from. If this is the first time using this system, copy
>>> your most recent TW file to the download directory.
>>>
>>> Do a right click on the bat file and create a shortcut. Drag the
>>> shortcut to your desktop.
>>>
>>> Now, whenever you want to launch your TW, just double-click on the
>>> shortcut. Your default browser will come up with the TW in a tab.
>>>
>>> That's all there's to it. You launch your TW like you would any other
>>> desktop app. Once it's loaded in your default browser, you can save with
>>> the default mechanism, knowing the next time you want to run the tw you can
>>> just click on the start-up icon.
>>>
>>> None of 

Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I didn't say setting up TiddlyServer was so hard. I said that setting up a 
batch file is no harder than setting up a server. 

Multiple options is always a good thing. I'm trying to point out that there 
is nothing intrinsically wrong with the default save mechanism. Each 
approach is likely to have some sort of drawback. For instance, when I'm 
running TiddlyServer my external links to local files no longer work. I 
could change them to use the server system path, but then they wouldn't 
work when I moved them to a device. TiddlyServer won't run on my aging 
Android (Termux isn't available until KitKit) so I would need 2 different 
links for the 2 different ways of working.

Also, TiddlyServer doesn't serve up MHT files. I realize that most people 
don't know about MHT, which is a shame. Once you've started using MHT 
files, you realize that this one of the most convenient ways to capture web 
pages. Of course, it might be the end of the road for MHT when FF57 comes 
out -- no way to know for sure until it happens. Pardon me if this already 
exists, but it would be nice if there was a way to tell TS to go ahead and 
serve up files of a particular extension. Then it will be up to the user to 
know if their browser or set up can handle that particular file type.

One of my other concerns is that I wasn't sure based on your prior comments 
whether you were going to continue to support TS, or if you were going to 
direct your attentions to a commercial product.

Anyways. TiddlyServer is a very nice setup. It might even be the one I 
eventually go with. But I don't think people should overlook the default 
save mechanism just because it isn't convenient out of the box.

Thanks!
Mark

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 8:35:45 AM UTC-7, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>
> Hi Mark, 
> I'm wondering why you think TiddlyServer is hard to set up. I'm curious if 
> you've tried it yet, and if you have, I would be happy to answer any 
> questions you have and/or walk you through the setup, since it will help me 
> know how to write the documentation. How can I help you use TiddlyServer to 
> accomplish what you need?
>
> Always good to explore other options though.
>
> Thanks,
> -Arlen
>
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
> tiddl...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> I forget that a lot of people find script files something mysterious. In 
>> the early days before the registry, everyone using a computer had to know 
>> about bat files when doing software installs. 
>>
>> Here's all that's needed to launch TW as an app.
>>
>> Put this script as a text file in your default download directory and 
>> name as "launch_tw.ps1"
>>
>> param([string]$stem="foo", [string]$dir="")
>> $copyme = ls $stem*.html | sort LastWriteTime | select -last 1
>> $copyme = $copyme.FullName
>> Copy-Item $copyme -Destination $dir\$stem.html
>> Invoke-Item $dir\$stem.html
>>
>> For each TW you want to run, create a single line script. Here's an 
>> example named tw_bible.bat:
>>
>> powershell -executionpolicy bypass -File .\launch_tw.ps1 -stem "bible" -dir 
>> d:\data\apps\TW_Ant
>>
>> The "stem" name is the unique first part of the name (e.g. "bible" if 
>> your tw is bible.html). The dir is the path to the directory where you want 
>> to launch your TW from. If this is the first time using this system, copy 
>> your most recent TW file to the download directory.
>>
>> Do a right click on the bat file and create a shortcut. Drag the shortcut 
>> to your desktop.
>>
>> Now, whenever you want to launch your TW, just double-click on the 
>> shortcut. Your default browser will come up with the TW in a tab.
>>
>> That's all there's to it. You launch your TW like you would any other 
>> desktop app. Once it's loaded in your default browser, you can save with 
>> the default mechanism, knowing the next time you want to run the tw you can 
>> just click on the start-up icon. 
>>
>> None of this is harder to do than installing an executable and 
>> configuring a server. The scripts are simple enough that they could be 
>> typed out by hand if you were on a system cut off from the net.  
>>
>> Caveats: As always, be sure to make a backup of your TW file, especially 
>> the first time you use this (if you're still using the TiddlyFox plugin, 
>> this approach might over-write your most recent TW file from a previous 
>> file in your download directory.) At the end of a session, if you need your 
>> file to synch somewhere (e.g. it's in a dropbox folder) then just run the 
>> shortcut again to copy over the most recent version. There might be more 
>> tweaking -- I don't have any beta testers yet! ;-)  I used it for a week 
>> and everything was fine (I'm using TiddlyFox as long as I can).
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 10:06:53 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't understand your objection in #2. You're saying you'd rather 
>>> install an entire server or application on your system rather than deal 
>>> with a 5-line 

Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Arlen Beiler]

Hi Mark,
I'm wondering why you think TiddlyServer is hard to set up. I'm curious if
you've tried it yet, and if you have, I would be happy to answer any
questions you have and/or walk you through the setup, since it will help me
know how to write the documentation. How can I help you use TiddlyServer to
accomplish what you need?

Always good to explore other options though.

Thanks,
-Arlen

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I forget that a lot of people find script files something mysterious. In
> the early days before the registry, everyone using a computer had to know
> about bat files when doing software installs.
>
> Here's all that's needed to launch TW as an app.
>
> Put this script as a text file in your default download directory and name
> as "launch_tw.ps1"
>
> param([string]$stem="foo", [string]$dir="")
> $copyme = ls $stem*.html | sort LastWriteTime | select -last 1
> $copyme = $copyme.FullName
> Copy-Item $copyme -Destination $dir\$stem.html
> Invoke-Item $dir\$stem.html
>
> For each TW you want to run, create a single line script. Here's an
> example named tw_bible.bat:
>
> powershell -executionpolicy bypass -File .\launch_tw.ps1 -stem "bible" -dir
> d:\data\apps\TW_Ant
>
> The "stem" name is the unique first part of the name (e.g. "bible" if your
> tw is bible.html). The dir is the path to the directory where you want to
> launch your TW from. If this is the first time using this system, copy your
> most recent TW file to the download directory.
>
> Do a right click on the bat file and create a shortcut. Drag the shortcut
> to your desktop.
>
> Now, whenever you want to launch your TW, just double-click on the
> shortcut. Your default browser will come up with the TW in a tab.
>
> That's all there's to it. You launch your TW like you would any other
> desktop app. Once it's loaded in your default browser, you can save with
> the default mechanism, knowing the next time you want to run the tw you can
> just click on the start-up icon.
>
> None of this is harder to do than installing an executable and configuring
> a server. The scripts are simple enough that they could be typed out by
> hand if you were on a system cut off from the net.
>
> Caveats: As always, be sure to make a backup of your TW file, especially
> the first time you use this (if you're still using the TiddlyFox plugin,
> this approach might over-write your most recent TW file from a previous
> file in your download directory.) At the end of a session, if you need your
> file to synch somewhere (e.g. it's in a dropbox folder) then just run the
> shortcut again to copy over the most recent version. There might be more
> tweaking -- I don't have any beta testers yet! ;-)  I used it for a week
> and everything was fine (I'm using TiddlyFox as long as I can).
>
>
> Mark
>
> On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 10:06:53 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand your objection in #2. You're saying you'd rather
>> install an entire server or application on your system rather than deal
>> with a 5-line batch file?
>>
>> On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 9:22:36 PM UTC-7, JWHoneycutt wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.
>>>
>>> It seems as though there is confusion about the best way forward.
>>>
>>> 1) TiddlyFox is going away sometime - so I don't want to get too
>>> enamored with it (Yes it is an installed add-on (Legacy) that does not work
>>> for me now)
>>> 2) @Mark S - The beauty of a solution that works every time is ideal,
>>> except that you then proceed to explain that the default save has a "pain
>>> in the ass" character to it involving don't forget to's or batch like
>>> this...
>>> 3) I have tried NoteSelf, and lost enough info due to my lack of
>>> understanding how simple it is - "just use it" becomes "just keep retyping
>>> the same tiddlers"
>>> 4) I am totally willing to jump away from a single file system and into
>>> Node.JS, but as a newbie it acts strange, pulling up things I didn't mean
>>> to be in this directory... and I just don't understand it yet (but I think
>>> I would like it)
>>> 5) TiddlyDesktop is my one and only savior - it is the ONLY way I
>>> currently know how to reliably update a tiddler, save to Dropbox, and find
>>> it later.
>>>
>>> I can live with that.  the only problem is when I link to an external
>>> TW5.html file, it loads it in FireFox, and I have to remember NOT TO UPDATE
>>> IT THERE - use only for reference. If I want to start typing, I have to
>>> remember to launch it directly from TiddlyDesktop independently.
>>>
>>> Does this thinking make sense?
>>>
>> --
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Re: [tw] Re: Is there a permanent TiddlyFox solution?

[Arlen Beiler]

No, I haven't. The main reason is because it keeps the file size down: 2 MB
vs 80 MB. I guess there is nothing that would prevent someone from doing
it, though.

I am also thinking that TiddlyServer may be the permanent TiddlyFox/Chrome
saving solution. It had been discussed in Hangouts, and the first version
was similar to TiddlyDesktop. In an effort to cut down on complexity and
bugs I completely skipped all the management stuff and just made it
file-system-based when I wrote version 2. There are a few features that I
am considering for creating folders and files.

Rather than trying to make things as absolutely simple as possible, I try
to make it configurable and easy to understand. So I welcome questions
asking how to set it up. Eventually some of these things will go into a FAQ
page and install guide.

Enjoy!

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:21 AM, RichardWilliamSmith <
richardwilliamsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder whether Arlen has already done any work on packing it as an
> electron app or similar (?) to make it even easier for people to use but
> it's already not very difficult at all.
>

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