Re: [tw5] Re: combining and syncing Tiddlywiki and Moodle

[Jan]

Hi Ed, Hi everybody!
thanks for your email which made perfect sense and made me dive further 
into learning systems...that is why it took me some time to reply.
I had to understand the difference between Tin-Can-Api , SCORM and then 
find out what role moodle plays there. So here is a very short summary 
of what I figured out:
As I understand, TinCan which has since been renamed to xAPI adds a 
feedback channel to SCORM to see what learners are doing with your input.
Moodle which uses the SCORM-format seems to have focussed on a similar 
field recently by adding learning-analytics which is quite a hot topic 
in that community at the moment...but without using xAPI. Interpreting 
the density of information I found, moodle seems to have evolved much 
faster than xAPI.


We agree on the point that moodle has abilitys that TW is not build 
for.  The main difference is the user management which enables theachers 
to  let students upload media and perform tests.
My Idea would be that TW5 would be the ideal portfolio to do the 
research for a course for university-teachers (Alberto Molina's Concept 
has prooved this a long time ago...), and for students to collect the 
information they judge valuable - and to take it with them into the 
post-academic life where their moodle-accounts have expired in a more 
sophisticated form than .pdf.


So I think having a converter (or conversion workflow) would be very 
good ... and doable for after all it is just parsing. But I am not shure 
on which side it should be placed. In this community it seems to be more 
likely to find wizard capable of creating and digesting the xml-based  
export-format of moodle. My skills being a little less superficial in 
php than in js I already had a look at how to create a moodle-plugin to 
perform this...but was a little intimidated by the hard standarts and 
the lack of such a wonderfull community like this here.


I think also Steves concept of usig TW parallely and referencing between 
them is an approach. My first idea was to use Moodle only as a sort of 
mailbox linking the "activities" from an informative TW-based 
coursebook. I was a little disappointed the URLs of the activities seem 
to change randomly if you are doing the course a second time... I am 
still wondering what a good workflow might be.

So please add your ideas...

Best wishes Jan




Am 02.10.2020 um 19:20 schrieb Ed Dixon:

Hi Jan,

Long time Moodle and TW5 fan here :)

Years ago, several here many had joined me in a push to add the TinCan 
API LMS standard to TW5 and I think your vision here and mine are 
similar in how TW5 could be used. What we were working on could / 
should work well with any stanard based LMS that supports SCORM 
comliance (Moodle amoung them). For me, my staff and I were in a 
blended learning environment so the goal was the students would have 
the materials to work with at home just as they would in class on 
Moodle and the TinCan API (which is a revision of the SCORM standard) 
when back in class could refresh those with new materials after 
importing the scorm data from the previous period. This would allow 
the teachers to track progress of the students work with those 
materals (time on task, simple self quizes, etc). We made a lot of 
headway and had not only many here from our community but also many 
other interested educators on board even a few from ADL which develops 
the SCORM standard. The API had a javascript implementation but there 
was an issue of using it with how the TW core was designed at that 
time. Regretfully shortly after we started all this a brain tumor was 
discovered and I ended up having 2 surgeries and am still trying to 
recover, no longer teaching, on full diability due to brain damage, 
and my memory is so fuzzy I am doing really well to remember any of 
this! I can only hope it makes sense LOL and that is probably only 
because it was so important to me then and would have been a huge help 
to all of us. I now use TW5 mainly as a journal to help me in my 
recovery.


Anyway, Jeremy was very involved in the effort and was working to 
provide support needed from the TW5 core for the API implementation. 
How far he got toward that (or others here with other solutions) I am 
not sure. I would love to see that goal fullfilled for all those 
involved and after having made such a big noise about it all. 
Hopefully Jeremy can shed some light on the possibility of doing it 
now but affraid other than just letting you know this I can't be of 
much more help.


As far as the effectivness of moodle over some of the other solutions 
mentioned here I have no idea (especially now) but to me then one of 
the bigger advantages of Moodle over the other LMS programs at that 
time was it ease in importing the digital materials and tests provided 
from the publishers directly into the system largly due to the LMS 
standards Moodle supports. I would not advocate using TW5 for test 
evaluaions but in tracking student progress 

Re: [tw5] Re: combining and syncing Tiddlywiki and Moodle

[Ed Dixon]

Hi Jan,

Long time Moodle and TW5 fan here :) 

Years ago, several here many had joined me in a push to add the TinCan API 
LMS standard to TW5 and I think your vision here and mine are similar in 
how TW5 could be used. What we were working on could / should work well 
with any stanard based LMS that supports SCORM comliance (Moodle amoung 
them). For me, my staff and I were in a blended learning environment so the 
goal was the students would have the materials to work with at home just as 
they would in class on Moodle and the TinCan API (which is a revision of 
the SCORM standard) when back in class could refresh those with new 
materials after importing the scorm data from the previous period. This 
would allow the teachers to track progress of the students work with those 
materals (time on task, simple self quizes, etc). We made a lot of headway 
and had not only many here from our community but also many other 
interested educators on board even a few from ADL which develops the SCORM 
standard. The API had a javascript implementation but there was an issue of 
using it with how the TW core was designed at that time. Regretfully 
shortly after we started all this a brain tumor was discovered and I ended 
up having 2 surgeries and am still trying to recover, no longer teaching, 
on full diability due to brain damage, and my memory is so fuzzy I am doing 
really well to remember any of this! I can only hope it makes sense LOL and 
that is probably only because it was so important to me then and would have 
been a huge help to all of us. I now use TW5 mainly as a journal to help me 
in my recovery. 

Anyway, Jeremy was very involved in the effort and was working to provide 
support needed from the TW5 core for the API implementation. How far he got 
toward that (or others here with other solutions) I am not sure. I would 
love to see that goal fullfilled for all those involved and after having 
made such a big noise about it all. Hopefully Jeremy can shed some light on 
the possibility of doing it now but affraid other than just letting you 
know this I can't be of much more help. 

As far as the effectivness of moodle over some of the other solutions 
mentioned here I have no idea (especially now) but to me then one of the 
bigger advantages of Moodle over the other LMS programs at that time was it 
ease in importing the digital materials and tests provided from the 
publishers directly into the system largly due to the LMS standards Moodle 
supports. I would not advocate using TW5 for test evaluaions but in 
tracking student progress and providing them resources and identifying 
learning oppurtuniies and weaknesses it would be a game changer. Or at 
least would have been back then that was at least 5-6 years ago so I have 
no idea what may be out there now.

Hope this is helpfull and Jeremy is following.
On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 9:35:57 AM UTC-5 Ste wrote:

> I think the overriding factor for moodle choice is it's free! But Google 
> classroom is so much better 
> Get yourself a Pearltrees account (free one available you can n work as 
> teams in it... and has the advantage that its yours! Here's mine 
> pearltrees.com/stephenteacher). Upload your docs and collect your 
> bookmarks to build up your resources. Iframe embed that into your moodle 
> through a label. It looks slick. Look at my moodle you can say... People 
> will say ooohhh... It Is 'in the moodle' but means you don't have to 
> wrestle with the moodle apart from setting assignments which isn't too 
> painful... Though I did give up trying to set up a self marking maths 
> questions... (it's in there!) 
> Iframe embed permalinks from your tidliwikis. This will save you much 
> stress. 
> Another thing I used to do was host assignment docs etc. in drop box and 
> link to them from the moodle. I had a sycronisation program from 
> portableapps.com (quietly install without bothering the nice IT dept) 
> which copied folders from my work cloud drive to my hard drive every hour 
> and the folder it copied into was my Dropbox folder so any updates to 
> assignments... Spelling correction... Date change.. Clarification.. would 
> be live to the students in at most an hour. 
>
> So use the moodle but drive your content in it from external sources. 
> The label is your friend :)
> On Thursday, 1 October 2020 at 13:39:35 UTC+1 Jan wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>> I have to admit what you say is ture... compared to TW moodle is 
>> complicated and clumpsy. 
>> Preparing a course for the next semester is a drag.
>> But it alllows you to organize and engage students into tasks and collect 
>> their results in a very concise way.  I guess that is why the school-board 
>> took this choice.
>> And for me as for most of those who work in institutions who use moodles 
>> it would not be the smartes carreer-option to disdain such a choice.
>>
>> Therefore: The idea is not to switch to moodle but to be able to feed the 
>> moodle from TW and to save 

Re: [tw5] Re: combining and syncing Tiddlywiki and Moodle

[Ste]

I think the overriding factor for moodle choice is it's free! But Google 
classroom is so much better 
Get yourself a Pearltrees account (free one available you can n work as 
teams in it... and has the advantage that its yours! Here's mine 
pearltrees.com/stephenteacher). Upload your docs and collect your bookmarks 
to build up your resources. Iframe embed that into your moodle through a 
label. It looks slick. Look at my moodle you can say... People will say 
ooohhh... It Is 'in the moodle' but means you don't have to wrestle with 
the moodle apart from setting assignments which isn't too painful... Though 
I did give up trying to set up a self marking maths questions... (it's in 
there!) 
Iframe embed permalinks from your tidliwikis. This will save you much 
stress. 
Another thing I used to do was host assignment docs etc. in drop box and 
link to them from the moodle. I had a sycronisation program from 
portableapps.com (quietly install without bothering the nice IT dept) which 
copied folders from my work cloud drive to my hard drive every hour and the 
folder it copied into was my Dropbox folder so any updates to 
assignments... Spelling correction... Date change.. Clarification.. would 
be live to the students in at most an hour. 

So use the moodle but drive your content in it from external sources. 
The label is your friend :)
On Thursday, 1 October 2020 at 13:39:35 UTC+1 Jan wrote:

> Hi Steve,
> I have to admit what you say is ture... compared to TW moodle is 
> complicated and clumpsy. 
> Preparing a course for the next semester is a drag.
> But it alllows you to organize and engage students into tasks and collect 
> their results in a very concise way.  I guess that is why the school-board 
> took this choice.
> And for me as for most of those who work in institutions who use moodles 
> it would not be the smartes carreer-option to disdain such a choice.
>
> Therefore: The idea is not to switch to moodle but to be able to feed the 
> moodle from TW and to save back courses to TW...
>
> Best wishes Jan
>
>
>
>
> Am 01.10.2020 um 11:57 schrieb Ste:
>
> Unless you have a cracking IT dept that has customised and tweaked the 
> moodle to make it nice my general advice would be.. Don't use the moodle.  
> Moodle is clunky and creaky and updating resources on it is a faff. 
> I tended to work round the moodle so if you add a label and press the <> 
> button you can inject html into it 
> I embedded my Pearltrees.com collections of resources and my wiki straight 
> into the moodle. 
> That way I could update both.. The students would see any changes 
> instantly / after a refresh and I didn't have to interact with the moodle 
> ever again. 
>
> Ste
>
> On Thursday, 1 October 2020 at 10:45:06 UTC+1 Jan wrote:
>
>> Hello Community, 
>> Our school-board has just adopted a moodle-based 
>> LearningManagementSystem. 
>> Though I am a convinced TiddlyWikian I will use it because it brings 
>> advantages in learning-scenarios. 
>> To name these advantages 
>> -Authentification 
>> -GroupManagement 
>> -Activities like H5P, 
>> -Analytics 
>>
>> ...of course als TW has great advantages 
>> - Much faster editing and developping halfbaked thoughts to public texts. 
>> - Searching, combining... 
>> - Beauty ;-) 
>> - the priceless advantage of independence and the guarantee to be able 
>> to take your notes and texts with you in a form that is readable 
>> deployable anywhere else and for decades... 
>> (I already lost months of work in moodle where either I or the LMS quit 
>> the institution ) 
>>
>> My desire would be to merge the advantages. 
>>
>> One thing that would be great would be a tool to exchange content. For 
>> example it would have helped me a lot if there had been an 
>> export-to-TW-tool to export the courses at the university. 
>> One the other hand I would love to prepare a Moodle-Course in TW 
>> (collect, sort and combine ideas and content) 
>>
>> It seems there has been a tool for this back in 2007 for TW Classic and 
>> an old version of moodle ( http://moodle.tiddlyspot.com/ ) It would be 
>> great to relaunch this project for the new versions. 
>>
>> What are your Ideas? 
>> Has anyone here already taken a look on moodle-programming and knows 
>> how this could be achieved? 
>>
>> Best whishes Jan 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [tw5] Re: combining and syncing Tiddlywiki and Moodle

[Jan]

Hi Steve,
I have to admit what you say is ture... compared to TW moodle is 
complicated and clumpsy.

Preparing a course for the next semester is a drag.
But it alllows you to organize and engage students into tasks and 
collect their results in a very concise way.  I guess that is why the 
school-board took this choice.
And for me as for most of those who work in institutions who use moodles 
it would not be the smartes carreer-option to disdain such a choice.


Therefore: The idea is not to switch to moodle but to be able to feed 
the moodle from TW and to save back courses to TW...


Best wishes Jan



Am 01.10.2020 um 11:57 schrieb Ste:
Unless you have a cracking IT dept that has customised and tweaked the 
moodle to make it nice my general advice would be.. Don't use the moodle.

Moodle is clunky and creaky and updating resources on it is a faff.
I tended to work round the moodle so if you add a label and press the 
<> button you can inject html into it
I embedded my Pearltrees.com collections of resources and my wiki 
straight into the moodle.
That way I could update both.. The students would see any changes 
instantly / after a refresh and I didn't have to interact with the 
moodle ever again.


Ste

On Thursday, 1 October 2020 at 10:45:06 UTC+1 Jan wrote:

Hello Community,
Our school-board has just adopted a moodle-based
LearningManagementSystem.
Though I am a convinced TiddlyWikian I will use it because it brings
advantages in learning-scenarios.
To name these advantages
-Authentification
-GroupManagement
-Activities like H5P,
-Analytics

...of course als TW has great advantages
- Much faster editing and developping halfbaked thoughts to public
texts.
- Searching, combining...
- Beauty ;-)
- the priceless advantage of independence and the guarantee to be
able
to take your notes and texts with you in a form that is readable
deployable anywhere else and for decades...
(I already lost months of work in moodle where either I or the LMS
quit
the institution )

My desire would be to merge the advantages.

One thing that would be great would be a tool to exchange content.
For
example it would have helped me a lot if there had been an
export-to-TW-tool to export the courses at the university.
One the other hand I would love to prepare a Moodle-Course in TW
(collect, sort and combine ideas and content)

It seems there has been a tool for this back in 2007 for TW
Classic and
an old version of moodle ( http://moodle.tiddlyspot.com/ ) It
would be
great to relaunch this project for the new versions.

What are your Ideas?
Has anyone here already taken a look on moodle-programming and knows
how this could be achieved?

Best whishes Jan





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