Re: [time-nuts] HP 5090B
In message f352a595feca451ca830d91215c7c...@apollo, David C. Partridge writ es: What is it for? I found nothing searching the archive, and Google didn't help much either. The Agilent site disclaimed all knowledge! One of the internal HP employee magazines (see hp-archive, probably Measure) mentions it once as a UK deeloped product. Can't rememember if the specs are listed. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
Subject says all Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability?
Gents, I have already pointed to this paper http://ipnpr.jpl.nasa.gov/progress_report/42-121/121G.pdf for a number of times but appearantly it is still too less known or too less understood. Its appendix explains completely the necessary signal processing for frequency and phase extraction from a sampled sine using ALL samples. While the paper itself addresses this algo to radio frequencies it naturally works as well at audio frequencies. Those who are thinking of using a soundcard for serious time nuts applications, say as a phase detector in a double mixer system, may be warned: Not the math is the problem, even the soundcard's clock is easily locked to a stable reference and this even if the soundcard is not prepared for that. The real enemies are there where you won't expect them. If you have never seen the worse impact that even a 100 dB damped channel to channel crosstalk (a very good value for semi-prof soundcards, bad ones may give you 60 dB or less) has on a tau sigma diagram then you won't believe. Been there, done that. A tau sigma diagram merciless reveals everything that is periodic in time and has a period Tau0. The combined phase/amplitude modulation that results from sitting of a damped version of one channel's signal on top of the other channel's signal due to crosstalk may be small but the tau sigma diagram will reveal it with umpteen dBs up and down bumps in the graph where you otherwise would have expected a straight line. The position of the first bump is directly related to the beat frequency's period length. When I noticed these artefacts in my real-world measurements it took me quite a time to understand that it was due to crosstalk. In order to find out if crosstalk in such a small amounts could give this big impact I wrote me a piece of software where instead of sampling real world sines two sines were computed and where I could add noise and crosstalk to the signals just as I liked to do. When I set the noise level according to the value that the manufacturer of the soundcard would claim for his product and did the same for the crosstalk then I received EXACTLY the bad artefacts that I had seen in my real world measurements. I have even tried to improve the crosstalk by mathematics. In principle that is easy: If Crosstalk is merely ADDING one signal to another then remove the crosstalk by SUBTRACTING a damped copy of the other channel's signal. But as it is in life: Things that are easy in principle may be a problem in reality. As it turned out the level of the subtracted signal was very difficult to adjust to give a satisfying cancellation of added and subtracted signal. In addition it turned out that the signal due to the crosstalk had a phase delay against the signal in the producing channel. So I needed to construct me not only a damped version but also a phase delayed version of the sampled signal with damping AND phase delay freely setable. And it seemed as if these parameters were slightly changing in time, making necessary a permanent variation of the cancellation parameters. That increased the necessary processing power to a point where the software would not more run stable. Note that Greenhall's paper applies the algo offline to signals which you have been sampled into files while I was going to compute everything online to chunks of data worth one second of samples signals. Best regards Ulrich Bangert -Ursprungliche Nachricht- Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von shali...@gmail.com Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Oktober 2010 22:36 An: Time-Nuts Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability? I think that's what Jim is saying. If you try to fit to the signal using only the zero crossing, it will be hard unless you have a lot of zero crossing, because you will have only one point per period to fit to. If you fit 10 or 100 points per period, you improve your fitting considerably. That assumes the signal waveform is stable of course. Didier Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: David McClain d...@refined-audiometrics.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 00:08:58 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability? Or, now that I think about it, it's similar to what we do when measuring ADEV.. you can do a crude how many zero crossings in the time window or you can do a fit a sinusoid to a series of ADC samples. One has an uncertainty of one count/epoch, the other can be substantially better. How could it be substantially better for the same analysis period? Unless the frequency under test is an integral number of periods during the analysis period, you will have a variation in the sine
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
Hi There's a couple of coupons running around for cheap SSL's. They are in the two meals at the burger joint per year range. I can forward the details off list if anybody needs them. I see no reason to spam the list with details of who and how much. Of course self signed certificates are cheaper still Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 3:36 AM, David C. Partridge wrote: Subject says all Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18?
Hi, out of curiosity I want to build a ntp timeserver. I can remember some epxerimets I carried out with a DCF77 receiver and a Cobalt Qube years ago, however this never really worked out. My plan is to buy a soekris net4501 (http://soekris.eu/shop/net4501/net4501_30_board_only_en.html) and modify it to use a 10MHz signal from a rubidium source via a clock-block (http://www.tapr.org/kits_clock-block.html). I read that a rubidium source is not really necessary, but since I'm a chemist I'd like to have something atomic in there that keeps my time when the GPS satellites drop from the sky. I found some tested rubidium sources at http://www.tenmhz.com/LPRO.htm, does anyone have experience with this seller? Are these units better than the one from China sold on eBay? Furthermore I'd like to get a 1PPS input from GPS as others already did. However, I would like to use one of these Garmin GPS 18 LVC units (as on http://time.qnan.org/) that usually work fine and provide a 1PPS signal together with a NMEA output and connect it to the net4501 internal serial port instead of the FatPPS (as John did: http://www.febo.com/pages/soekris/). Is there a way to get Poul-Hennings`s NTPns working with the GPS 18 as a PPS source? Is there any specific reason why a 1PPS signal from another source (like a Thunderbolt GPS disciplined clock) together with a FatPPS board would give better results as my Garmin approach? Altogether, this would cost about 450EUR [129EUR (net4501) + 49EUR (clock-block) + 176EUR (rubidium standard) + 100EUR (used Garmin GPS 18 LVC)] excl. shipping and small stuff for a rather good time server, what do you think? Best regards and thanks for your help, Christian -- Christian C. Gruber c...@chilia.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SSL certificate expired
1. Re: Febo.com SSL certificate expired to my knowledge you can get a free SSL certificates using: http://www.startssl.com/?app=0 http://www.startssl.com/?app=1 it is even recognized by Microsoft: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20091010/microsoft-free-root-certificate-authority-windows/ BTW, I never used them, but a friend of mine did and he never complained about... _Elio. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability?
Ulrich Bangert wrote: Gents, I have already pointed to this paper http://ipnpr.jpl.nasa.gov/progress_report/42-121/121G.pdf for a number of times but appearantly it is still too less known or too less understood. Its appendix explains completely the necessary signal processing for frequency and phase extraction from a sampled sine using ALL samples. While the paper itself addresses this algo to radio frequencies it naturally works as well at audio frequencies. And, in any case, the RSA described in the paper is sampling an audio frequency beat note, so it's exactly applicable to what is contemplated here. As Ulrich comments in the rest of his post, the math is straightforward, the performance is all in the hardware execution. When measuring a gnat's eyelash, you need to worry about the bumps on the eyelash. Sound cards in PCs have all sorts of idiosyncracies. Consider them as a 10 bit/ 60dB sort of device: For instance, the sampling clock may be fairly stable, but it has interference from the processor clock on it, so you'll see spurs from that. There's leakage between channels. The low frequency response isn't very wonderful. etc. The folks doing ham software defined radios (in particular with the Flex-Radio boxes of the SDR1000 vintage a few years ago) spent a lot of time trying out different external sound interfaces: the performance of the interface directly affects the RF performance in the Flex direct conversion scheme. Unfortunately, a lot of the mail reflector archives aren't on-line, but there was a lot of empirical data that some dedicated people collected. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability?
Hi I do not follow al the techniques in detail but a lot of work has been done on soundcard sampling rates in the low frequency amateur radio groups where GPS locking is used to extract very weak signals from the noise in very narrow band widths. It has been found that some of the supposed standard samping rates are not exact divisors of the clock crystal and are achieved by a bodge in teh software but are regarded as close enough for some audio work The 11kHz rate is a particularly odd one but many of the 8kHz rates are quite a way off. There are several ways of locking the spectrogram software to a harmonic of the 1pps. If there is interest I may be able to dig out some URLs a quick check didnt yield what I wanted to show. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability? Ulrich Bangert wrote: Gents, I have already pointed to this paper http://ipnpr.jpl.nasa.gov/progress_report/42-121/121G.pdf for a number of times but appearantly it is still too less known or too less understood. Its appendix explains completely the necessary signal processing for frequency and phase extraction from a sampled sine using ALL samples. While the paper itself addresses this algo to radio frequencies it naturally works as well at audio frequencies. And, in any case, the RSA described in the paper is sampling an audio frequency beat note, so it's exactly applicable to what is contemplated here. As Ulrich comments in the rest of his post, the math is straightforward, the performance is all in the hardware execution. When measuring a gnat's eyelash, you need to worry about the bumps on the eyelash. Sound cards in PCs have all sorts of idiosyncracies. Consider them as a 10 bit/ 60dB sort of device: For instance, the sampling clock may be fairly stable, but it has interference from the processor clock on it, so you'll see spurs from that. There's leakage between channels. The low frequency response isn't very wonderful. etc. The folks doing ham software defined radios (in particular with the Flex-Radio boxes of the SDR1000 vintage a few years ago) spent a lot of time trying out different external sound interfaces: the performance of the interface directly affects the RF performance in the Flex direct conversion scheme. Unfortunately, a lot of the mail reflector archives aren't on-line, but there was a lot of empirical data that some dedicated people collected. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18?
Many... but a lot boils down to the fact that the Tbolt is designed from the ground up to be a time (and frequency) source. Its 1PPS output can be stable to within a few nanoseconds and the frequency to a few parts per trillion. The Garmin 1PPS output is spec'd at 1 microsecond, plus you get no frequency source. The LPRO seller is almost certainly getting his LPROs from the Chinese recyclers, just like everybody else. You can get a complete LPRO kit delivered to Germany for $80 (or less). Tbolts for a few dollars more. Ebay is your friend. Search for RUBIDIUM and you will also find a guy selling a divider card that takes the LPRO output and generates several clocks, including 1 Hz... cheaper and more versatile than the FATPPS - Is there any specific reason why a 1PPS signal from another source (like a Thunderbolt GPS disciplined clock) together with a FatPPS board would give better results as my Garmin approach? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... and two people have already bought them! And these probably don't have the good oscillator. Will wonders never cease? The next highest kit was $250, with others available for $160 (Buy-It-Now). Checking completed auctions, they actually sell for $130 to $160 with shipping included. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5090B
Hi David, I had one of these years ago. As others have said, its a UK 200kHz receiver. full of pot core transformers. I decided it was not worth the effort to convert it to 198kHz. In the end I put a OCXO and divider in the case. Robert G8RPI. --- On Thu, 14/10/10, David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk wrote: From: David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5090B To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thursday, 14 October, 2010, 20:45 OK, I just got one of these as part of a lot of other test gear. What is it for? I found nothing searching the archive, and Google didn't help much either. The Agilent site disclaimed all knowledge! I suspect it MIGHT be an off air frequency standard as it has 1MHz and 100kHz outputs and an aerial input. Any clues - or pointers to documentation? Regards, David Partridge ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5090B
Many of the units showed up in the early 90's on the European surplus market when Droitwich switched to 198 KHz as part of a global frequency realignment plan. I bought one and tried to convert it to 60 KHz. Not much luck. Still have it some where, got spoiled by Loran C and still use my Tracor 599 and an eight inch ferrite antenna here in Miami on 60 KHz. Bert Kehren In a message dated 10/15/2010 1:27:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, robert8...@yahoo.co.uk writes: Hi David, I had one of these years ago. As others have said, its a UK 200kHz receiver. full of pot core transformers. I decided it was not worth the effort to convert it to 198kHz. In the end I put a OCXO and divider in the case. Robert G8RPI. --- On Thu, 14/10/10, David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk wrote: From: David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5090B To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thursday, 14 October, 2010, 20:45 OK, I just got one of these as part of a lot of other test gear. What is it for? I found nothing searching the archive, and Google didn't help much either. The Agilent site disclaimed all knowledge! I suspect it MIGHT be an off air frequency standard as it has 1MHz and 100kHz outputs and an aerial input. Any clues - or pointers to documentation? Regards, David Partridge ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
Why bother buying a cert? Just create a self-signed one (and you can make it for like 10+ years)... It's not like he's selling stuff from his website... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18?
Nothing wrong with wanting to use a Rb as the clock source for the board. I *almost* decided to go that route since I had a spare LPRO sitting around. But I realized that I would never need that long of hold-over so it would kind of be a waste. I've been looking at some cheap ($20 USD) 1PPM TCXO on ebay... Which would be a decent upgrade from the stock crystal rated at 50PPM. Furthermore I'd like to get a 1PPS input from GPS as others already did. However, I would like to use one of these Garmin GPS 18 LVC units (as on http://time.qnan.org/) that usually work fine and provide a 1PPS signal together with a NMEA output and connect it to the net4501 internal serial port instead of the FatPPS (as John did: http://www.febo.com/pages/soekris/). Is there a way to get Poul-Hennings`s NTPns working with the GPS 18 as a PPS source? I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* there is a basic PPS driver with NTPns? On my box I set the course time on boot-up via ntpdate, then when NTPns starts it has something decent to work with (if the time is too far off I think it throws an alarm). You can get Motorola Oncore UT+ or even M12+T receivers on eBay relatively cheap. With a little effort they *will* fix inside the soekris box so you can just have a connector on the back for your antenna. The UT+ receivers *will* work with NTPns. You can checkout my first build here: http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/articles/howto/Building_S1_NTP_Server_1.html Is there any specific reason why a 1PPS signal from another source (like a Thunderbolt GPS disciplined clock) together with a FatPPS board would give better results as my Garmin approach? I *think* the PPS output from a Thunderbolt is not the raw GPS PPS but rather a deterministic one? Someone will have to verify / debunk that though. However you are also kind of doubling up on the oscillators since when a Thunderbolt looses signal it will flywheel off it's internal OCXO. I have a pre-built image of NanoBSD w/NTPns (and I think regular NTP is on there too) that I did a while back, feel free to give it a whirl: http://www.rabel.org/ntpns/ntpns_NanoBSD_7.tar.bz2 You might have to change some of the startup paramaters ntpns configurations depending on how you wire up everything to the GPIO pins and whatnot. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18?
Hi Jason, Have a look on ebay.280567398921. quite good TCXO. Rgds Ernie. -Original Message- From: Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, Oct 15, 2010 9:10 pm Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18? Nothing wrong with wanting to use a Rb as the clock source for the board. I almost* decided to go that route since I had a spare PRO sitting around. But I realized that I would never need that long of old-over so it would kind of be a waste. I've been looking t some cheap ($20 USD) 1PPM TCXO on ebay... Which would be a decent upgrade rom the stock crystal rated at 50PPM. Furthermore I'd like to get a 1PPS input from GPS as others already did. However, I would like to use one of these Garmin GPS 18 LVC units (as on http://time.qnan.org/) that usually work fine and provide a 1PPS signal together with a NMEA output and connect it to the net4501 internal serial port instead of the FatPPS (as John did: http://www.febo.com/pages/soekris/). Is there a way to get Poul-Hennings`s NTPns working with the GPS 18 as a PPS source? I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* there is a basic PPS driver with NTPns? On my ox I set the course time on boot-up via ntpdate, hen when NTPns starts it has something decent to work with (if the time is too ar off I think it throws an alarm). You can get Motorola Oncore UT+ or even M12+T receivers on eBay relatively heap. With a little effort they *will* fix inside the oekris box so you can just have a connector on the back for your antenna. The T+ receivers *will* work with NTPns. You can checkout my first build here: ttp://www.extremeoverclocking.com/articles/howto/Building_S1_NTP_Server_1.html Is there any specific reason why a 1PPS signal from another source (like a Thunderbolt GPS disciplined clock) together with a FatPPS board would give better results as my Garmin approach? I *think* the PPS output from a Thunderbolt is not the raw GPS PPS but rather a eterministic one? Someone will have to verify / ebunk that though. However you are also kind of doubling up on the oscillators ince when a Thunderbolt looses signal it will lywheel off it's internal OCXO. I have a pre-built image of NanoBSD w/NTPns (and I think regular NTP is on there oo) that I did a while back, feel free to give it whirl: http://www.rabel.org/ntpns/ntpns_NanoBSD_7.tar.bz2 You might have to change some of the startup paramaters ntpns configurations epending on how you wire up everything to the GPIO ins and whatnot. ___ ime-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com o unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts nd follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18?
Actually I was planning on getting a 33.8688 MHz TCXO, apparently there's a few sellers with them because they are used for audiophiles in their CD players? That way I don't have to use a clock-block or other circuitry to get a usable frequency. Have a look on ebay.280567398921. quite good TCXO. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Sometimes when I see insanely high purchases for items when there are near-identical listings it makes me suspicious that perhaps the buyer was using a second account to make a fake purchase. Possibly to either add more positive ratings or maybe artificially make people think an item is worth that (over)value? Jason While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... and two people have already bought them! And these probably don't have the good oscillator. Will wonders never cease? The next highest kit was $250, with others available for $160 (Buy-It-Now). Checking completed auctions, they actually sell for $130 to $160 with shipping included. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
Hi It's a crazy world when it comes to self signed certs. You have at least 5 OS's you need to consider (MS, Linux/FBSD, OS-X, I-OS, Android). You need to think about both browsers and mail clients. Each of those come from a half dozen sources on each platform. Then you have configuration options on each. That's a lot of combinations. Each combo seems to have a different idea of what not to do when they see a self signed cert. If you want to be able to handle all of them, even real certs may have issues. There are indeed several common combo's that are a major pain with a self signed cert. No, I didn't write any of the code with the problems in it. I also don't want to get into the details of what and where. This really isn't the forum for that sort of thing. I'm not out to bash any particular solution, only to point out that there are indeed issues. Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 3:00 PM, Jason Rabel wrote: Why bother buying a cert? Just create a self-signed one (and you can make it for like 10+ years)... It's not like he's selling stuff from his website... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Bert wrote: There is a second line Make Offer, maybe he sold three based on a reasonable offer. The purchase history indicates that the 2 sales were at $1500 and the seller has declined one offer and let 4 others expire. Note that the listing is for a Thunderbolt E and a full plug and play kit of ancillaries (including a crappy little wall wart power supply) rather than the older, standard Thunderbolt that I believe most of us have (not that I think that makes it worth $1500). Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
On 10/16/2010 12:08 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi It's a crazy world when it comes to self signed certs. You have at least 5 OS's you need to consider (MS, Linux/FBSD, OS-X, I-OS, Android). You need to think about both browsers and mail clients. Each of those come from a half dozen sources on each platform. Then you have configuration options on each. That's a lot of combinations. Each combo seems to have a different idea of what not to do when they see a self signed cert. If you want to be able to handle all of them, even real certs may have issues. There are indeed several common combo's that are a major pain with a self signed cert. No, I didn't write any of the code with the problems in it. I also don't want to get into the details of what and where. This really isn't the forum for that sort of thing. I'm not out to bash any particular solution, only to point out that there are indeed issues. Do handle part of the mess, we have setup our local root cert at the computer club, and then sign our server certs to that. I did a major overhaul on the infrastructure for that. It is still not real safety routines, but ah well. We provide a cert download which quickly solves the cert issue with most browser. Seems to work for our myriad of server and client OSes and clients. There is various ways to get real root certs, but depending on degree of uhm... safety... it may be argued of their capabilities. There is efforts to build a chain of trust for a stable free root cert, but it is so far nog included in any major browsers. Essentially it's a mess. I'm only scratched the surface here. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
Hi The issue is as much defective software as anything else. There simply aren't enough self signed situations out there to drive a problem up their solution list. The gotcha is the good old but my software works with everything else. May be easy to get around that with the technically inclined. Not so much when the customer is mom. Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 10/16/2010 12:08 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi It's a crazy world when it comes to self signed certs. You have at least 5 OS's you need to consider (MS, Linux/FBSD, OS-X, I-OS, Android). You need to think about both browsers and mail clients. Each of those come from a half dozen sources on each platform. Then you have configuration options on each. That's a lot of combinations. Each combo seems to have a different idea of what not to do when they see a self signed cert. If you want to be able to handle all of them, even real certs may have issues. There are indeed several common combo's that are a major pain with a self signed cert. No, I didn't write any of the code with the problems in it. I also don't want to get into the details of what and where. This really isn't the forum for that sort of thing. I'm not out to bash any particular solution, only to point out that there are indeed issues. Do handle part of the mess, we have setup our local root cert at the computer club, and then sign our server certs to that. I did a major overhaul on the infrastructure for that. It is still not real safety routines, but ah well. We provide a cert download which quickly solves the cert issue with most browser. Seems to work for our myriad of server and client OSes and clients. There is various ways to get real root certs, but depending on degree of uhm... safety... it may be argued of their capabilities. There is efforts to build a chain of trust for a stable free root cert, but it is so far nog included in any major browsers. Essentially it's a mess. I'm only scratched the surface here. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
bJason Rabel said the following on 10/15/2010 03:00 PM: Why bother buying a cert? Just create a self-signed one (and you can make it for like 10+ years)... It's not like he's selling stuff from his website... And that's what the old cert was. I will create a new one as soon as I get a chance (I'm traveling for a couple of days so it may be a bit). I thought the last time I gen'd the cert it was for 10 years, but it's possible that a software update may have resulted in creating a new one with the default 1-year lifetime. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Febo.com SSL certificate expired
Hi One example of self signed issues: Oct 15 19:57:16 vps postfix/smtpd[24030]: disconnect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1] Oct 15 19:57:16 vps amavis[20436]: (20436-10) Passed CLEAN, [173.163.57.9] [173.163.57.9] li...@rtty.us - j...@febo.com, Message-ID: d196153f-7f6b-4e3d-b9ce-dd43176d5...@rtty.us, mail_id: giFaXckeIyKN, Hits: 0, size: 4061, queued_as: 1075AB3B0046, 589 ms Oct 15 19:57:16 vps postfix/lmtp[24019]: 4734CB3B0044: to=j...@febo.com, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:10024, delay=0.86, delays=0.26/0.01/0/0.59, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok, id=20436-10, from MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 1075AB3B0046) Oct 15 19:57:16 vps postfix/qmgr[23779]: 4734CB3B0044: removed Oct 15 19:57:16 vps postfix/smtp[24031]: certificate verification failed for meow.febo.com: num=18:self signed certificate Oct 15 19:57:21 vps postfix/smtp[24031]: 1075AB3B0046: to=j...@febo.com, relay=meow.febo.com[64.34.184.112]:25, delay=5.2, delays=0.01/0.01/0.43/4.7, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 OK id=1P6u9E-00036G-Gx) Oct 15 19:57:21 vps postfix/qmgr[23779]: 1075AB3B0046: removed Sorry to pick on John when he can't do anything, but the timing was perfect. Bob Oct 15, 2010, at 7:53 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: bJason Rabel said the following on 10/15/2010 03:00 PM: Why bother buying a cert? Just create a self-signed one (and you can make it for like 10+ years)... It's not like he's selling stuff from his website... And that's what the old cert was. I will create a new one as soon as I get a chance (I'm traveling for a couple of days so it may be a bit). I thought the last time I gen'd the cert it was for 10 years, but it's possible that a software update may have resulted in creating a new one with the default 1-year lifetime. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question about SoundCard stability?
On 10/13/2010 12:58 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Controller cycling is often a result of one of two things: 1) Resistance in the power lead I think I can write this off. 2) Extra insulation / dead air I can write this one off too. 3) Internal controller issues Most likely the issue. It was a very linear behaviour and was there from power-on to power-off... days later. On all samples. There are a few other possibilities, but they are remote enough that you are unlikely to ever come across them. There's no advantage to building a controller that's cycling. It was more likely a bug than a feature. I consider it a bug. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] febo.com SSL certificate
I've regenerated the SSL certificate for HTTPS at febo.com. The new certificate should be good for ten years, as I intended (but failed to accomplish) when I created the old one. It's still a self-signed cert, so will throw a warning with your browser, but you can trust me and tell the browser to accept the exception. :-) I'm traveling over the weekend so won't be able to address any problems, but if anyone has problems I'll do the best I can to respond early next week. BTW -- because this is a totally non-commercial site, I'm not interested in forking over the money to buy a trusted certificate, not to mention the hassle of having to renew it. Sorry if the security warning is an annoyance, but that's the way it is. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] febo.com SSL certificate
Hi https://febo.com returns This certificate is not valid (host name mismatch) under Safari Apparently by the bizarre rules of ssl wildcards - *.febo.com does not match feebo.com. I believe febo.com goes in the SubjectAltName field and *.febo.com stays in the CommonName field. Very strange stuff. Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I've regenerated the SSL certificate for HTTPS at febo.com. The new certificate should be good for ten years, as I intended (but failed to accomplish) when I created the old one. It's still a self-signed cert, so will throw a warning with your browser, but you can trust me and tell the browser to accept the exception. :-) I'm traveling over the weekend so won't be able to address any problems, but if anyone has problems I'll do the best I can to respond early next week. BTW -- because this is a totally non-commercial site, I'm not interested in forking over the money to buy a trusted certificate, not to mention the hassle of having to renew it. Sorry if the security warning is an annoyance, but that's the way it is. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] febo.com SSL certificate
Thanks, Bob. I'll see if I can regenerate it. The OpenSSL script doesn't prompt for a alternate name, so I'm not sure just how to get that field into it, but I'll mess around a bit. John On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:36 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi https://febo.com returns This certificate is not valid (host name mismatch) under Safari Apparently by the bizarre rules of ssl wildcards - *.febo.com does not match feebo.com. I believe febo.com goes in the SubjectAltName field and *.febo.com stays in the CommonName field. Very strange stuff. Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I've regenerated the SSL certificate for HTTPS at febo.com. The new certificate should be good for ten years, as I intended (but failed to accomplish) when I created the old one. It's still a self-signed cert, so will throw a warning with your browser, but you can trust me and tell the browser to accept the exception. :-) I'm traveling over the weekend so won't be able to address any problems, but if anyone has problems I'll do the best I can to respond early next week. BTW -- because this is a totally non-commercial site, I'm not interested in forking over the money to buy a trusted certificate, not to mention the hassle of having to renew it. Sorry if the security warning is an annoyance, but that's the way it is. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] febo.com SSL certificate
Hi Never done one with OpenSSL myself so I'm not much help there. One nice thing about self signed - no charge to regenerate a new key Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:41 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Thanks, Bob. I'll see if I can regenerate it. The OpenSSL script doesn't prompt for a alternate name, so I'm not sure just how to get that field into it, but I'll mess around a bit. John On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:36 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi https://febo.com returns This certificate is not valid (host name mismatch) under Safari Apparently by the bizarre rules of ssl wildcards - *.febo.com does not match feebo.com. I believe febo.com goes in the SubjectAltName field and *.febo.com stays in the CommonName field. Very strange stuff. Bob On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:20 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: I've regenerated the SSL certificate for HTTPS at febo.com. The new certificate should be good for ten years, as I intended (but failed to accomplish) when I created the old one. It's still a self-signed cert, so will throw a warning with your browser, but you can trust me and tell the browser to accept the exception. :-) I'm traveling over the weekend so won't be able to address any problems, but if anyone has problems I'll do the best I can to respond early next week. BTW -- because this is a totally non-commercial site, I'm not interested in forking over the money to buy a trusted certificate, not to mention the hassle of having to renew it. Sorry if the security warning is an annoyance, but that's the way it is. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] febo.com SSL certificate
Ah, John, that's wonderful. A weekend without addressing any problems? I'd maim for that. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: John Ackermann N8UR Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:20 PM snip I'm traveling over the weekend so won't be able to address any problems, but if anyone has problems I'll do the best I can to respond early next week. and another snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Discipline a rubidium driven net4501 with a Garmin LVC 18?
Search for RUBIDIUM and you will also find a guy selling a divider card that takes the LPRO output and generates several clocks, including 1 Hz... cheaper and more versatile than the FATPPS A 1 Hz clock derived from a rubidium isn't synchronized to UTC second ticks. The PPS pulse out of a TBolt is only 10 microseconds wide. Some hardware/software won't see that. The FATPPS makes that wide enough to work with most setups. I used a diode + R + C kludge. It fits inside the TBolt. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much? Sometimes when I see insanely high purchases for items when there are near-identical listings it makes me suspicious that perhaps the buyer was using a second account to make a fake purchase. Possibly to either add more positive ratings or maybe artificially make people think an item is worth that (over)value? Jason While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... and two people have already bought them! And these probably don't have the good oscillator. Will wonders never cease? The next highest kit was $250, with others available for $160 (Buy-It-Now). Checking completed auctions, they actually sell for $130 to $160 with shipping included. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Sorry for the blank message. Think I clicked the wrong button. Isn't anybody going to point out the elephant standing in the middle of the room? Jason wrote. While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... ... The next highest kit was $250, If 250 is higher than 1500 then I must have forgotten something I learned in school. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Jason Rabel ja...@extremeoverclocking.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much? Sometimes when I see insanely high purchases for items when there are near-identical listings it makes me suspicious that perhaps the buyer was using a second account to make a fake purchase. Possibly to either add more positive ratings or maybe artificially make people think an item is worth that (over)value? Jason While checking on the current Tbolt prices, I noticed some guy was selling a complete (receiver+antenna+supply) Trimble kit for $1500 plus shipping... and two people have already bought them! And these probably don't have the good oscillator. Will wonders never cease? The next highest kit was $250, with others available for $160 (Buy-It-Now). Checking completed auctions, they actually sell for $130 to $160 with shipping included. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is $1500 for a Thunderbolt a bit too much?
Max wrote: The next highest kit was $250, If 250 is higher than 1500 then I must have forgotten something I learned in school. Your math is fine -- it's English usage that you seem to have forgotten. Next highest -- i.e., highest but for the one that was initially identified as the highest. You seem to be thinking of next higher. Also, I don't believe it was Jason who posted the bit you quoted -- if memory serves, it was Mark. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
