Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Think big. The experiment has been done over 168,000 light years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_1987A The neutrinos got here 3 hours before the light. (Empty space isn't really empty. The dielectric constant slows the light down a tiny tiny bit.) I am not sure that this is a valid test case. Although the neutrinos were detected 3hrs prior to the light detection from SN 1987A, with some possible detection 5hrs prior to that at LVD also under the alps, the detectors were detecting electron neutrinos which is not the same flavour as those in the OPERA experiment. As these beasts oscillate between the different flavours I think it could not be excluded that the muon neutrinos, which, if I understand correctly, the OPERA detectors are trapping, had already passed by. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Le 25/10/2011 03:51, Rick Thomas a écrit : When I first heard of this, I had a thought for a 4th explanation: It seems likely, given everything we know, that neutrinos have a very-small, but non-zero mass. Part of the point of this experiment was to try to get a better idea of what what mass is. We've always assumed it was very small, non-zero and positive. What happens if it's very-small, non-zero, and negative? Rick I like this one. Or what about an imaginary mass. in this case v would always be above c. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] List Threading Behavior?
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 01:29:07 -0400 Doug Calvert dfc-l...@douglasfcalvert.net wrote: Am I the only one whose email client has trouble putting threads together for this list? All of my other lists appear to be working correctly. Am I missing something? This is not an issue of the mailinglist itself, but of mail clients that do not conform to the RFC's. Especially webclients and MS stuff are known to miss the In-Reply-To and References header fields which are needed to get threading working correctly. Ie if someone with an incorrectly working mailclient replies to a mail you will get a split thread, because the In-Reply-To field is missing. Attila Kinali -- The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap -- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Unless it took hours for the light to come out of the star compared to the neutrinos, being at a great distance tends to make the flight time the dominant factor and swamp out small differences due to peculiarities at the point of emission. Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:38:54 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing Think big. The experiment has been done over 168,000 light years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_1987A The neutrinos got here 3 hours before the light. (Empty space isn't really empty. The dielectric constant slows the light down a tiny tiny bit.) Hal, Ah, you're assuming the neutrinos came out of the supernova at the same time as the light. I've read that this is not the case. By their nature neutrinos can make it out of that explosion immediately but it takes a while for the light or other particles to migrate their way out from the core. In which case you would expect to see the neutrinos first. This applies to time interval measurement too. The best way to measure interval is use two equivalent detectors; one near and one far, but both away from the source. That way you get two fair in-flight measurements. Using some implied internal trigger and just one far detector may give misleading results. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] T-Bolt sig-stringth vs AZ-EL display...?
Hello TimeNutters-- Can someone tell me what the required keystroke entries are to display the LH Signal Strength vs. AZ-EL display? Thanks!! Mike Baker WA4HFR --- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt sig-stringth vs AZ-EL display...?
Hi Mike, try it using key 's' like 'survey', then 'a' for 'antenna' a.s.o. (eg. 'sas' or 'sad'). rgards, Arnold Am 25.10.2011 15:15, schrieb Michael Baker: Hello TimeNutters-- Can someone tell me what the required keystroke entries are to display the LH Signal Strength vs. AZ-EL display? Thanks!! Mike Baker WA4HFR --- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:16 AM, shali...@gmail.com wrote: Unless it took hours for the light to come out of the star compared to the neutrinos, being at a great distance tends to make the flight time the dominant factor and swamp out small differences due to peculiarities at the point of emission. Yes it did take hours. Because the explosion happened inside a chunk of hyper dense mater. The interior of a star in very dense and photons just can't move through it. Heck they don't move through concrete either. Then as the explosion continued finally the whole mess gets bigger as the bits of fly outward. Finally the hot little bits are exposed to open space and radiate. There is no light flash until the hot bits of gas from the core explosion are exposed to space.Stars are huge and it takes hours for heated parts to travel to a place where they have a direct line of site radiation path to Earth. Another way to say it is that the light we see is not from the nuclear explosion. That was hidden from us by the outer layers of the star. The light we see is from the hot gas that is pushed into space by the explosion and it takes some hours for the gas to get pushed to a place we ca see it -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
On 10/25/2011 10:48 AM, mike cook wrote: Le 25/10/2011 03:51, Rick Thomas a écrit : When I first heard of this, I had a thought for a 4th explanation: It seems likely, given everything we know, that neutrinos have a very-small, but non-zero mass. Part of the point of this experiment was to try to get a better idea of what what mass is. We've always assumed it was very small, non-zero and positive. What happens if it's very-small, non-zero, and negative? Rick I like this one. Or what about an imaginary mass. in this case v would always be above c. The traditional formula would not make a speed difference due to the sign of the mass, but imaginary mass would. That would be a bit of extrapolation out of a single formula. Then again, so much of the quantum world is a mix of read and imaginary numbers, so why not an odd mass case. That would however change a lot, but it would indeed keep the theoretical physics occupied quite a bit. That's the definition of the experimental physics work-description... find out things for the theorists to figure out... :) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
On 10/25/2011 07:06 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: My bet is on an experimental error. That is the safe bet. I hope I loose because this being real faster than light neutrinos would be a lot of fun. If true my off the cuff guess is that this proves the existence of dimensions higher than four. These are tiny and some closed shape. most mater takes some long path through these and all the particles that do interact, neutrinos don't take the long path and thereby miss most mater and don't interact with it. Either they don't move in that dimension or they take a bee-line Under special relatively the speed of all particles is a constant, C (This is why nothing can exceed C because everything in the universe moves at constant speed (not constant velocity) of C. If the Neutrinos really are fast then my guess is that the constant C holds in more than four dimension. So this result would not disprove Einstein, it would generalize the theory to n4 dimensions. The neutrinos, like every other particle pin the universe are moving at exactly C through 10-space. (OK I guessed at the number 10 but n-space where n4) I think this has to be the simplest possible explanation. Short path through dimensions 4 explains both the apparent faster than light speed (that is not faster than C in n-space) and why neutrinos don't interact with matter very much. I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this. It fall out obviously if you let N be 4 It opens up several issues. Can we say that neutrinos have a meaningful interaction such that dielectric constant for instance is relevant. What if the speed of light is relevant only as a interaction slowed down variant of the speed of particles, where neutrinos has higher speed due to less interactions. What if neutrinos only have apparent mass? If the experiment checks out in all its aspects, it could prove important to re-evaluate results and we might get a better view of what needs to go into a GUT. When studying the electron, don't forget to integrate over the surrounding universe to understand it's properties (as Feynman did in his early works). It has it's properties in context of the universe, which it constantly interacts with. In short, neutrinos may still have a few important things to teach us. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
El 25/10/2011 18:39, Magnus Danielson escribió: The traditional formula would not make a speed difference due to the sign of the mass, but imaginary mass would. That would be a bit of extrapolation out of a single formula. Then again, so much of the quantum world is a mix of read and imaginary numbers, so why not an odd mass case. That would however change a lot, but it would indeed keep the theoretical physics occupied quite a bit. That's the definition of the experimental physics work-description... find out things for the theorists to figure out... :) And an imaginary mass would imply and imaginary energy (in the sense of complex number with no real part... :) ) and that would imply also that lower energy neutrinos (in module value) would be faster. Sounds fun :) Regards, Javier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
I wonder if the idea of mass (and other properties) being an complex number is not exactly equivalent to an assumption of there being more than 4 dimensions. I think it's two sides of the same coin. What we see is as the real component is just the vector projected onto the dimensions we can perceive. The component that is perpendicular to the four perceived dimensions we call imaginary.So IMO, complex number and extra dimension are the same thing. We need not choose one interpretation over the other. So, if one is proven to be the case then is is the other I think there are two decision points people will have to make. Decision trees are useful. We can go a few layers deep and not have to know which options are in fact true. 1) Is this an experiential error? If yes then we can all forget about this if no then.. 2) Is C a universal speed limit? Given that we did not stop a #1 if C is a limit becomes a religious issue and you can flip a coin or you can simply define C as the limit. In other words you now have to decide but have no rational reason for going either way. So you have two options (given you did not stop at #1 above) 2.1 The NO option: Clearly C is not a limit because we have observed something that goes faster on a large macroscopic scale. We must accept that there might be some even more exotic particles that are even faster than Neutrinos and maybe interact even less with matter than neutrinos. If so now we have a real problem. Quantum weirdness is OK if we confine it to the microscopic world but now it has leaked out to the macro world and it will take down Einstein. Once you toss out the speed limit much else goes with it. I guess you've have to allow time to run backwards for anything that can outrun C. 2.2 The YES Option: Yes C is still the limit because we observe neutrino velocity and photon velocity only after each projected onto 4-space from n-space where n4. So C's magnitude must be a little faster then we thought because we only observe C's real component. This does not change much. It proves what many people have suspected but an air-tight proof of higher dimensions pushes the Copernican revolution yet further along. On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: The traditional formula would not make a speed difference due to the sign of the mass, but imaginary mass would. That would be a bit of extrapolation out of a single formula. Then again, so much of the quantum world is a mix of read and imaginary numbers, so why not an odd mass case. That would however change a lot, but it would indeed keep the theoretical physics occupied quite a bit. That's the definition of the experimental physics work-description... find out things for the theorists to figure out... :) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] List Threading Behavior?
On 10/25/2011 05:10 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 01:29:07 -0400 Doug Calvertdfc-l...@douglasfcalvert.net wrote: Am I the only one whose email client has trouble putting threads together for this list? All of my other lists appear to be working correctly. Am I missing something? This is not an issue of the mailinglist itself, but of mail clients that do not conform to the RFC's. Especially webclients and MS stuff are known to miss the In-Reply-To and References header fields which are needed to get threading working correctly. Ie if someone with an incorrectly working mailclient replies to a mail you will get a split thread, because the In-Reply-To field is missing. Attila Kinali Thanks that makes sense. Most of the other mailing lists I am on are mainly populated by n*x users. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
Javier, On 10/25/2011 07:50 PM, Javier Herrero wrote: El 25/10/2011 18:39, Magnus Danielson escribió: The traditional formula would not make a speed difference due to the sign of the mass, but imaginary mass would. That would be a bit of extrapolation out of a single formula. Then again, so much of the quantum world is a mix of read and imaginary numbers, so why not an odd mass case. That would however change a lot, but it would indeed keep the theoretical physics occupied quite a bit. That's the definition of the experimental physics work-description... find out things for the theorists to figure out... :) And an imaginary mass would imply and imaginary energy (in the sense of complex number with no real part... :) ) and that would imply also that lower energy neutrinos (in module value) would be faster. Sounds fun :) Exactly, remember where you heard it first ;) Once the imaginary axis is introduced, you can also expect complex numbers for mass. But really, it is not the explanation I would expect to turn out true. So, we have at least two neutrino-machines to verify the time on. But really, I would not expect that we would provide evidence which the world of physics would accept, but possibly provide a report giving sufficient insight on how these things works. Mostly because it would be a good opportunity to explain it to fellow time-nuts. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
El 25/10/2011 21:00, Magnus Danielson escribió: And an imaginary mass would imply and imaginary energy (in the sense of complex number with no real part... :) ) and that would imply also that lower energy neutrinos (in module value) would be faster. Sounds fun :) Exactly, remember where you heard it first ;) Oh, sadly this is not the first place where I've heard a speculation of the neutrino being a true tachyon ;) And I like the idea. The neutrino is so elusive and tends to interact with the universe in a way that it really seems to be from other universe (the tachyonic one). One only needs to see the size of complexity of the neutrino detector, that otherwise is so blind to only being able to get a handful of all the neutrinos that crosses it :) Regards, Javier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 8560E DC Coupling phase noise measurements
Hi, In the process of measuring phase noise with a 'demphano' gear, I am a bit reluctant to connect my 8560E in DC mode to get 30 Hz low frequency sensitivity: the SA input is very sensitive to DC voltage and may be destroyed by a voltage larger than 200mV. So with a LNA having no blocking DC output I would like to know the best way to protect the SA. I suppose that putting a 100µF capacitor between LNA and SA is not especially a good idea as a charged capacitor to DC rail may have the same effect that no caps at all. I am looking for some advice in that domain to pursue phase noise measurements, for now I connect the SA with a caution after PLL lock and measuring the SA input with a DC voltmeter before switching to DC SA input but this mode of operation is a bit frightening. Any idea ? Regards Loïc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Once the imaginary axis is introduced, you can also expect complex numbers for mass. But really, it is not the explanation I would expect to turn out true. I suspect it IS true. I too don't like the idea of a complex number value for physical qualities like mass.I'd rather accept that mass and so on is a normal vector with components that are all real. I suspect that the imaginary component does in fact exist in nature and in this case is not just a mathematical construct. There is an easy way for these complex numbers to physically exist without radically changing our view of the universe or tossing out known physics. The simplest change is this: Let the three dimensions of space be i, j, k. Each has an axis that is a line with huge length, possibly infinite. So far Issac Newton agrees. But now what if there is a fourth axis l but it's not a line. It is a circle. A circle with radius far to small to detect with current methods. All particles now have four spacial coordinates but the value of the fourth hardly matters because we really don't care where in the universe you are if the universe is a only (say) 1E-1000 meters across. Next we argue if the extra dimension is a trick to avoid the unpleasantness of complex physical values or if complex physical values are a trick to avoid having to accept the existence of higher dimensions. If you accept the l dimension as real it also might explains why neutrinos don't interact with matter much. The answer is they do if they happen to bump into any matter but that seldom happens. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP5370B - Err 02
I have an HP5370B that is measuring the time interval between two 1 pps signals. Occasionally, like every few days, I will look over and the unit is displaying Err 02. The unit is set to display the average of 10,000 events. It will go for days, updating the interval as expected, but then show the error message. A Reset returns it to normal operaion. I could not find a list of the error codes in the manuals that I have. Does anyone know what my 5370B is trying to tell me? Thanks! -- Bob Smither, Ph.D. - Linux User 281-331-2744; fax:-4616 smit...@c-c-i.com = Unix IS user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are = attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 8560E DC Coupling phase noise measurements
-Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts- boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Loïc MOREAU Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:01 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 8560E DC Coupling phase noise measurements Hi, In the process of measuring phase noise with a 'demphano' gear, I am a bit reluctant to connect my 8560E in DC mode to get 30 Hz low frequency sensitivity: the SA input is very sensitive to DC voltage and may be destroyed by a voltage larger than 200mV. So with a LNA having no blocking DC output I would like to know the best way to protect the SA. I suppose that putting a 100µF capacitor between LNA and SA is not especially a good idea as a charged capacitor to DC rail may have the same effect that no caps at all. I am looking for some advice in that domain to pursue phase noise measurements, for now I connect the SA with a caution after PLL lock and measuring the SA input with a DC voltmeter before switching to DC SA input but this mode of operation is a bit frightening. Any idea ? The 200 mV limit is only with 0 dB of RF attenuation. With a quadrature PLL and LNA, you don't need to use 0 dB. 20 dB is probably OK, and if not, you can make up for it with more gain. A pair of back-to-back Schottky diodes would be another alternative. -- john ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP5370B - Err 02
Bob, You did the opposite of the thread splitting, just discussed; you tagged your message onto an unrelated thread. Manuals for the 5370 are not hard to find. From a service manual I found: 3-22. Error messages Error 2 - Data out of range (overrange). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FS: HP 59309A
Hello Everyone, Currently only for the Time-Nuts, I have an HP59309A HP-IB Digital Clock for sale. This one has Option H04, otherwise known as Option 001, which offers a Julian Calendar (0-366 day-of-year indication) instead of the regular Month/Day. The unit is functional, clean and in quite good shape, with the expected light scratches and blemishes on the top/bottom/sides typical of a used unit. The front is pretty clean. Price is $90 + shipping. Please contact me directly. Thanks, Bert, VE2ZAZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FS: HP 59309A
A look at the manual implies that it can be switch set for 365 or 366 days. A nice unit, but I've already got one. Best, -John ==- Hello Everyone, Currently only for the Time-Nuts, I have an HP59309A HP-IB Digital Clock for sale. This one has Option H04, otherwise known as Option 001, which offers a Julian Calendar (0-366 day-of-year indication) instead of the regular Month/Day. The unit is functional, clean and in quite good shape, with the expected light scratches and blemishes on the top/bottom/sides typical of a used unit. The front is pretty clean. Price is $90 + shipping. Please contact me directly. Thanks, Bert, VE2ZAZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FS: HP 59309A
in addition, they are readily adaptible to 10 MHz input using the external power bnc and a cmos decimal counter chip. Don J. Forster A look at the manual implies that it can be switch set for 365 or 366 days. A nice unit, but I've already got one. Best, -John ==- Hello Everyone, Currently only for the Time-Nuts, I have an HP59309A HP-IB Digital Clock for sale. This one has Option H04, otherwise known as Option 001, which offers a Julian Calendar (0-366 day-of-year indication) instead of the regular Month/Day. The unit is functional, clean and in quite good shape, with the expected light scratches and blemishes on the top/bottom/sides typical of a used unit. The front is pretty clean. Price is $90 + shipping. Please contact me directly. Thanks, Bert, VE2ZAZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP5370B - Err 02
Rex wrote: Bob, You did the opposite of the thread splitting, just discussed; you tagged your message onto an unrelated thread. Ummm - I see that now. My apologies. I don't usually use a threaded display. Clearly just removing the subject doesn't reset the thread. Manuals for the 5370 are not hard to find. From a service manual I found: 3-22. Error messages Error 2 - Data out of range (overrange). I have a service manual, but could not find the errors listing in it (it is a scan, not searchable). Thanks to all who identified the error for me. -- Bob Smither, PhD Circuit Concepts, Inc. = We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp,some are pretty, some are dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors ... but they all have to learn to live in the same box. = smit...@c-c-i.com http://www.C-C-I.Com 281-331-2744(office) -4616(fax) attachment: smither.vcf___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
