[time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-Agilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an-g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt distribution amplifier needed.
Hello, You can try the solution listed here : http://naelcom.fr/app/download/5788490907/Data+sheet+NGA-DIS+Preliminary+V1. 1.pdf Luc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Loran-C antenna pictures
What are those rays spreading from the tower base? Are they the artificial ground plane made by wires? On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Great pix. Thanks. My tower isn't quite that large. Look at the cables! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Michael Blazer mbla...@satx.rr.com wrote: Wow, what a view. How does the advice go, Don't look down? On 8/22/2012 9:22 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: http://www.jan-mayen.no/ press news Look for 21. august. The last picture is particularly interesting: http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/**2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-** mast%208b.JPG http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-mast%208b.JPG Here you can see both the top-hat which forms the capacitance, they guy-wires which hold the mast in place and the ground-grid which forms the other electrode. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
Yes, search for info but, in short, the TBolt will improve the performance if its ambient temperature is controlled. LH can do that. Details and experiences in the archives. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:25 AM, Ron Ward n6idl...@comcast.net wrote: Hi again: Okay. Thanks! Ron -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 8:55 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. From the headers that are normally not displayed by most mail systems: List-archive: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts Google also works nicely. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Loran-C antenna pictures
yes On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.itwrote: What are those rays spreading from the tower base? Are they the artificial ground plane made by wires? On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Great pix. Thanks. My tower isn't quite that large. Look at the cables! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Michael Blazer mbla...@satx.rr.com wrote: Wow, what a view. How does the advice go, Don't look down? On 8/22/2012 9:22 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: http://www.jan-mayen.no/ press news Look for 21. august. The last picture is particularly interesting: http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/**2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-** mast%208b.JPG http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-mast%208b.JPG Here you can see both the top-hat which forms the capacitance, they guy-wires which hold the mast in place and the ground-grid which forms the other electrode. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Em, that's a lot of money for a Rubidium. I wonder what all the controls are for? It seems a complex rubidium compared to those that I've seen. On 23 August 2012 14:40, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
On 8/23/2012 7:44 AM, David Kirkby wrote: Em, that's a lot of money for a Rubidium. I wonder what all the controls are for? It seems a complex rubidium compared to those that I've seen. David, if you compare it to the -hp- 5065A which last sold new for around $35,000 and upwards with options you will see the similarities. That was indeed in a class of it's own, a little better performance than the $100 ebay bricks :^) I've no idea how this Russian stuff compares, nor any great desire to find out. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:55:07 -0700, Hal Murray wrote: I don't know how to search the Time-Nut archive for specific information. From the headers that are normally not displayed by most mail systems: List-archive: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts Google also works nicely. I use www.mail-archive.com , they have a great search facility http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/info.html volt-nuts is also present (this year) CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Understanding Oliver Collins Paper Design of Low Jitter Hard Limiters
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:00:10 -0700, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: jmulc...@cox.net said: The amount of jitter verses logic family is all over the place as well. Take a look at an LS verses an HCT vs an S family and you will see what I mean. Some of them are very nasty, and are not all created equally. Is there any collection of hard data? How much does it depend upon manufacturer or test setup? How much couples through from power supply? I have not seen any. The jitter varies not only between logic families but also between manufacturers and IC processes. It is usually unimportant for logic intended for synchronous applications. The circuit design itself can be critical. If you want to avoid testing and qualifying parts, then some of the faster logic families have guaranteed jitter specifications. They also tend to include switching threshold control or compensation to increase power supply rejection. Does the jitter scale with prop-time? Usually but not always. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
OK have been staying clear of the replies. Thats a lot of money for a RB of who knows what age and no support. Those are $25 value items you are taking all of the risks. And yes indeed you can get RBs for $25 a bit low in the lamp life. But do rejuvenate nicely. FRS class. Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? Cute boat anchor though a real waste of anything. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Perrett mkperr...@gmail.comwrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LORAN C Antenna...
Those are the counterpoise for the antenna and increases the efficiency of the antenna. Burt, K6OQK At 08:33 AM 8/23/2012, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote What are those rays spreading from the tower base? Are they the artificial ground plane made by wires? On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Great pix. Thanks. My tower isn't quite that large. Look at the cables! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Michael Blazer mbla...@satx.rr.com wrote: Wow, what a view. How does the advice go, Don't look down? On 8/22/2012 9:22 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: http://www.jan-mayen.no/ press news Look for 21. august. The last picture is particularly interesting: http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/**2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-** mast%208b.JPG http://www.jan-mayen.no/nyhet/2012/08_august/C-%20mast/C-mast%208b.JPG Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
The PRS10 by SRS has serious shortcomings at short tau. I don't understand why but there is a huge hump in the adev. That's why I avoided one. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:42 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: OK have been staying clear of the replies. Thats a lot of money for a RB of who knows what age and no support. Those are $25 value items you are taking all of the risks. And yes indeed you can get RBs for $25 a bit low in the lamp life. But do rejuvenate nicely. FRS class. Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? Cute boat anchor though a real waste of anything. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Perrett mkperr...@gmail.comwrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Have you observed the hump yourself or is it published data? If you made the measure, what reference clock did you use? I have (at work, in another department) a new PRS10, hope to get it back... On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: The PRS10 by SRS has serious shortcomings at short tau. I don't understand why but there is a huge hump in the adev. That's why I avoided one. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:42 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: OK have been staying clear of the replies. Thats a lot of money for a RB of who knows what age and no support. Those are $25 value items you are taking all of the risks. And yes indeed you can get RBs for $25 a bit low in the lamp life. But do rejuvenate nicely. FRS class. Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? Cute boat anchor though a real waste of anything. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Perrett mkperr...@gmail.com wrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
published and experimental data as compared to 5065a. Large hump with max at 2 minutes.. perplexing to me because it seems perfect in about every other way. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.itwrote: Have you observed the hump yourself or is it published data? If you made the measure, what reference clock did you use? I have (at work, in another department) a new PRS10, hope to get it back... On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: The PRS10 by SRS has serious shortcomings at short tau. I don't understand why but there is a huge hump in the adev. That's why I avoided one. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:42 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: OK have been staying clear of the replies. Thats a lot of money for a RB of who knows what age and no support. Those are $25 value items you are taking all of the risks. And yes indeed you can get RBs for $25 a bit low in the lamp life. But do rejuvenate nicely. FRS class. Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? Cute boat anchor though a real waste of anything. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Perrett mkperr...@gmail.com wrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
On 23 August 2012 16:42, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? A PRS-10 is a *lot* cheaper - From $1495 http://www.thinksrs.com/products/PRS10.htm compared to his $4980, which does make it exceeding expensive given it's only a rubidium. I wonder if he sells boat anchors? Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Agreed... my point is it *may* be significantly better depending on the application ... the 5065a comes to mind.. if it is substantially similar to a 5065a (which I don't know that it is) it may be worth it. I know a very good 5065a can run substantially above $2500 and many find it worth it. I have seen improved and verified 5065a's in the $3,500 range and if you need what they offer they are worht that. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:49 AM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 23 August 2012 16:42, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? A PRS-10 is a *lot* cheaper - From $1495 http://www.thinksrs.com/products/PRS10.htm compared to his $4980, which does make it exceeding expensive given it's only a rubidium. I wonder if he sells boat anchors? Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Doc Bill Dailey KXØO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
I meant 2 seconds On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.itwrote: Have you observed the hump yourself or is it published data? If you made the measure, what reference clock did you use? I have (at work, in another department) a new PRS10, hope to get it back... On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: The PRS10 by SRS has serious shortcomings at short tau. I don't understand why but there is a huge hump in the adev. That's why I avoided one. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:42 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: OK have been staying clear of the replies. Thats a lot of money for a RB of who knows what age and no support. Those are $25 value items you are taking all of the risks. And yes indeed you can get RBs for $25 a bit low in the lamp life. But do rejuvenate nicely. FRS class. Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? Cute boat anchor though a real waste of anything. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Perrett mkperr...@gmail.com wrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
In message CAMPhioqkby-LrwDngmd9JDs-MnJ7mUSWxUz=7DXVN7R1=3f...@mail.gmail.com , Bill Dailey writes: Agreed... my point is it *may* be significantly better depending on the application ... It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. Given that we havn't seen anything like them elsewhere, I subscribe to the first theory. In particular given the descriptions rather promiscuous claims. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
On 08/23/2012 05:32 PM, Michael Perrett wrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Typing it all in is a bitch. If someone is willing to OCR and translate, I'd be game. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
On 08/23/2012 07:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In messageCAMPhioqkby-LrwDngmd9JDs-MnJ7mUSWxUz=7DXVN7R1=3f...@mail.gmail.com , Bill Dailey writes: Agreed... my point is it *may* be significantly better depending on the application ... It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. Given that we havn't seen anything like them elsewhere, I subscribe to the first theory. In particular given the descriptions rather promiscuous claims. Well, I have something quite similar, The IEM KVARZ / VREMYA CH1-78. This looks like a modern variant of this. Mine includes clock, time difference measurement and frequency measurement. Oh, PPS output with a delayed PPS. Thus, all the extra features to make it a portable secondary clock for calibration work. Bells and whistles you don't usually see on rubidiums, but make sense in this context. The box for sale seems to be the same thing but more modern form. It also seems to have taken input from the 5065A box. Just because there isn't much trace of the box, doesn't mean it wasn't a good product for its time and it could have been a minor product from a much larger design-house, and there existed a few of those in USSR. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
On 23 August 2012 18:39, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. I think given this hear is Russian military, I doubt there would have been much chance for it to be evaulated by companies like Agilent. The specifications would not be published, they could not buy one. It's possible the first Western countries will see of this sort of thing is when it appears on eBay. I'm not saying this is good, but it might possibly be. Looking at a lot of the other things this seller has, the specs are well below what one can get from companies like Agilent. Volt meters with 1% error are hardly precision by todays standards. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
I am reading thread and getting a good chuckle in a lot of respects. SRS good or bad humps and bumps. Then it hit me. I have a HP5065a and its great. But, someone here is willing to buy it for $5000! I think we can strike a deal. :-) Its american, has documentation, and is HP. Sweet! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 23 August 2012 18:39, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. I think given this hear is Russian military, I doubt there would have been much chance for it to be evaulated by companies like Agilent. The specifications would not be published, they could not buy one. It's possible the first Western countries will see of this sort of thing is when it appears on eBay. I'm not saying this is good, but it might possibly be. Looking at a lot of the other things this seller has, the specs are well below what one can get from companies like Agilent. Volt meters with 1% error are hardly precision by todays standards. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Who said that? Sent from my iPad On Aug 23, 2012, at 2:56 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I am reading thread and getting a good chuckle in a lot of respects. SRS good or bad humps and bumps. Then it hit me. I have a HP5065a and its great. But, someone here is willing to buy it for $5000! I think we can strike a deal. :-) Its american, has documentation, and is HP. Sweet! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 23 August 2012 18:39, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. I think given this hear is Russian military, I doubt there would have been much chance for it to be evaulated by companies like Agilent. The specifications would not be published, they could not buy one. It's possible the first Western countries will see of this sort of thing is when it appears on eBay. I'm not saying this is good, but it might possibly be. Looking at a lot of the other things this seller has, the specs are well below what one can get from companies like Agilent. Volt meters with 1% error are hardly precision by todays standards. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSD-Rb
Hi If you run a processor with a PLL on it - be very careful. The jitter they add can be significant. Bob On Aug 22, 2012, at 11:08 PM, Peter Bell bell.pe...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: It is very hard to write a divers in software. You have to use assembly language and you have to mmake sure that EVERY path in every branch is has exactly the same number of clock cycles. And then you have to be lucky that you can work out an exact integer division. It depends on what sort of processor you are using - that sort of approach used to be necessary when the low-cost MCUs were things like PICs that don't have especially sophisticated on-chip timers, but even cheap devices now have onchip timer/counters that have reload and capture registers. Many of them also have PLLs on the die that are intended for clock generation but can often be abused for other purposes :) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Understanding Oliver Collins Paper Design of Low Jitter Hard Limiters
Hi In general, saturated logic (TTL / CMOS) will do better than non-saturated (ECL / LVDS). Faster with saturated generally = better, provided it's silicon. Once you go to high mobility semiconductors the 1/f noise picks up. Yes, you need a quiet supply. How quiet is going to depend on your edge rates, input frequencies, phase noise offsets, the coupling circuit, and the logic used. Put another way - you need to test your circuit. There are bits and pieces of that very limited summary scattered across several hundred papers and data sheets. Bob On Aug 22, 2012, at 10:00 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: jmulc...@cox.net said: The amount of jitter verses logic family is all over the place as well. Take a look at an LS verses an HCT vs an S family and you will see what I mean. Some of them are very nasty, and are not all created equally. Is there any collection of hard data? How much does it depend upon manufacturer or test setup? How much couples through from power supply? Does the jitter scale with prop-time? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
See the chart TVB produced to see the PRS10 hump in published data. http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/prs10/ Have you observed the hump yourself or is it published data? If you made the measure, what reference clock did you use? I have (at work, in another department) a new PRS10, hope to get it back... On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: The PRS10 by SRS has serious shortcomings at short tau. I don't understand why but there is a huge hump in the adev. That's why I avoided one. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:42 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: OK have been staying clear of the replies. Thats a lot of money for a RB of who knows what age and no support. Those are $25 value items you are taking all of the risks. And yes indeed you can get RBs for $25 a bit low in the lamp life. But do rejuvenate nicely. FRS class. Brand new ones I think from SRS are that cost, consume a fraction of the power, great documentation, warranty, and modern control interfaces. What on earth would shipping and customs be?? Cute boat anchor though a real waste of anything. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Perrett mkperr...@gmail.com wrote: I have found Google translate does a pretty good job on translating manuals - and it is free Michael On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Richard Parrish calc...@swbell.net wrote: The seller of the 'Russian' equipment said that the CCHB-74 frequency standard is a rubidium unit. Manual is in Russian but he can translate part of the manual into English for an additional fee. Thanks, Richard Parrish Cal Center Inc 1622 Griffith Ave Terrell, Texas 75160-4905 calc...@swbell.net 214-577-3515 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of David Kirkby Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard? There's a seller on ebay by the name of electro-radio-device-high-precision, which have some odd things. Some seem as if they would be 19th century items, but are sold as new. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/electro-radio-device-high-precision?_trksid=p4340.l 2563 I suspect his stuff was desgned for the Russian military. Everything he sells is described as analog of Lutron, Advantest, Avtech, HP Agilent, NoiseCom, General Radio, Boonton, Anritsu, Fluke and general Electric, but has the same or better characteristics. I thought this one was interesting though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5MHz-1MHz-100kHz-Frequency-standard-CCHB-74-an-g-A gilent-HP-/330758945645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4d02c4fb6d It has lots of knobs to twiddle, so it might be a cesium, though the specs don't seem good enough for a cesium, with a relativa e error of +/- 2 x 10^-11 at shipping. That seems more like a rubidium spec. He has some bizzare stuff, like a power meter which works to 53 GHz, but has banana plugs on it. I guess the sensor is connected to the banana plugs, though he does not mention it needing an external sensor. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-03GHz-53GHz-1mkWatt-10mWatt-Power-meter-M3-22-an -g-Agilent-HP-Marconi-GenRad-/230821610924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35 be0a45ac Some of his stuff seems very over priced, like a 400-1200 MHz sig gen with an error of 1% for $1580, but other things seem quite reasonable. If you need a sig gen at 70 GHz, he has them. Anyway, its worth checking out his auctions, as he has some test equipment which is very different from what one normally sees - and it some cases to what one would want to see! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
In message 33222.206.174.114.110.1345760897.squir...@mymail.acsalaska.net, R ichard H McCorkle writes: See the chart TVB produced to see the PRS10 hump in published data. http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/prs10/ I have measured similar data when the PRS10 is fed a 1PPS from a GPS without sawtooth correction. The PRS10 has a 1/256 exponential average filter which can get rid of most of that noise, and I suspect Tom didn't enable it for that measurement. But even with that filter, the hanging bridges leak through at all relevant timeconstants of the PRS10's internal PLL. I tried converting the negative saw-tooth and injecting it into the PRS10 via the serial port, but the results were at best very mixed. In the end I used the PRS10 to timestamp the 1PPS, pulled the measurement out via the serial port, and implemented my own neg-saw corrected PLL in software, which injected the correction back into the PRS10 via the serial port. When you do that, you get much better results, at 2Hz and elsewhere. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Understanding Oliver Collins Paper Design of Low Jitter Hard Limiters
On 08/24/2012 12:07 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi In general, saturated logic (TTL / CMOS) will do better than non-saturated (ECL / LVDS). Faster with saturated generally = better, provided it's silicon. Once you go to high mobility semiconductors the 1/f noise picks up. Yes, you need a quiet supply. How quiet is going to depend on your edge rates, input frequencies, phase noise offsets, the coupling circuit, and the logic used. Put another way - you need to test your circuit. There are bits and pieces of that very limited summary scattered across several hundred papers and data sheets. NIST has only made a few papers on it, and to some degree it is inconclusive. Also, it doesn't give good hints on more current logic as it was made ages ago. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Early on in the thread. If someones willing to but the russian RB at $5K how about my 5065. :-) Regards Paul. On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: Who said that? Sent from my iPad On Aug 23, 2012, at 2:56 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I am reading thread and getting a good chuckle in a lot of respects. SRS good or bad humps and bumps. Then it hit me. I have a HP5065a and its great. But, someone here is willing to buy it for $5000! I think we can strike a deal. :-) Its american, has documentation, and is HP. Sweet! Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM, David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote: On 23 August 2012 18:39, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. I think given this hear is Russian military, I doubt there would have been much chance for it to be evaulated by companies like Agilent. The specifications would not be published, they could not buy one. It's possible the first Western countries will see of this sort of thing is when it appears on eBay. I'm not saying this is good, but it might possibly be. Looking at a lot of the other things this seller has, the specs are well below what one can get from companies like Agilent. Volt meters with 1% error are hardly precision by todays standards. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Hi If the box is from KVARZ then they are very much still in business. Back in the 90's they had to do an H-Maser to test the Rb's with. I believe that's now their main product. Bob On Aug 23, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CAMPhioqkby-LrwDngmd9JDs-MnJ7mUSWxUz=7DXVN7R1=3f...@mail.gmail.com , Bill Dailey writes: Agreed... my point is it *may* be significantly better depending on the application ... It's really very simple: If it was, the company that made them would now be owned either by some rich mafioso or a western company. If it is no good, the company is still locally owned or bankrupt. Given that we havn't seen anything like them elsewhere, I subscribe to the first theory. In particular given the descriptions rather promiscuous claims. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Is this a cesium frequency standard?
Poul, The PRS10 I have here is free-running, and the ADEV looks similar to the plots TVB made. I think it's the time constant of the Rb steering algorithm, not much one can do about that. Maybe lock a good DOCXO to it with say 200s time constant to filter out the hump.. Bye, Said Sent from my iPad On Aug 23, 2012, at 15:35, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 33222.206.174.114.110.1345760897.squir...@mymail.acsalaska.net, R ichard H McCorkle writes: See the chart TVB produced to see the PRS10 hump in published data. http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/prs10/ I have measured similar data when the PRS10 is fed a 1PPS from a GPS without sawtooth correction. The PRS10 has a 1/256 exponential average filter which can get rid of most of that noise, and I suspect Tom didn't enable it for that measurement. But even with that filter, the hanging bridges leak through at all relevant timeconstants of the PRS10's internal PLL. I tried converting the negative saw-tooth and injecting it into the PRS10 via the serial port, but the results were at best very mixed. In the end I used the PRS10 to timestamp the 1PPS, pulled the measurement out via the serial port, and implemented my own neg-saw corrected PLL in software, which injected the correction back into the PRS10 via the serial port. When you do that, you get much better results, at 2Hz and elsewhere. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
